Unlikely. She's still on board when you blow Hakeev's ship to kingdom come after your escape. However, I'd consider that a mercy considering what the Tal Shiar made you do to her.
You've played it through, does the woman survive? If she does, and can be saved, I can finish the mission. If not... I'll have to skip it and deal with the lack of character continuity. When I feel motivated to even play her again...
You may want to seek help for your RL issues before playing a video game again. I'm being sincere.
I have been passing the time before Delta Rising by starting a Romulan character and going through story missions with her. I just hit a major road block in the form of the Mind Games mission.
Quite simply put, I absolutely refuse to mutilate an innocent (and attractive) Romulan woman to death with Borg implants, period. I struggled with it in the course of the mission, found no way around it, and finally hit the "beam out" button. I cannot finish that mission but without it, my story progress and in-character continuity is destroyed. Basically, this mission kills my character because it forces her to go in directions that are absolutely beyond the pale. I might as well delete her at this point and say she killed herself to save that woman.
This is like Devide et Impera all over again, where we're railroaded into committing atrocities. Except with that I could at least say to myself "I ALWAYS set to stun and I'm not breaking that policy here, the game just doesn't have a mechanic for stun", you directly and explicitly are expected to torture a woman to death in this mission. I refuse. My character might not have a choice, but I do. I'll quit the game first.
My immersion with the character and interest in continuing with her is severely shaken by this.
O.M.F.G. :rolleyes:
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
I do not know if he is refusing to mutilate her due to moral reasons or if he has the hots for her.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I wish they'd implemented it differently. You have to hit the damned button and do it, that's a conscious choice. I can hit that button or the beam out button. I don't feel like my character is far enough from making conscious choices to evade moral culpability.
For example, when you get temporarily assimilated while fighting the Borg, you lose control of your avatar and watch from her perspective as she attacks her friends and tries to kill and assimilate them. She is not in control and neither are you. But with this, you remain in control of your actions but the game doesn't allow you options. You can stand there and do nothing, you can run around, you can beam out and abort the mission. To properly convey a loss of control, you should still hit the resist button and then your character follows instructions anyway. To reflect your character losing control of their actions, you should lose control of your character. Otherwise the game doesn't properly convey you being commanded against your will, it just railroads you instead. It is an immersion breaking difference.
You've played it through, does the woman survive? If she does, and can be saved, I can finish the mission. If not... I'll have to skip it and deal with the lack of character continuity. When I feel motivated to even play her again...
You're breaking immersion by not continuing the story. If you wanted to play a game where you could be nothing but a Disney character, there are games for that. They are slightly less realistic, but at least you can maintain a faux sense morality,and still complete the story.
I wish they'd implemented it differently. You have to hit the damned button and do it, that's a conscious choice. I can hit that button or the beam out button. I don't feel like my character is far enough from making conscious choices to evade moral culpability.
For example, when you get temporarily assimilated while fighting the Borg, you lose control of your avatar and watch from her perspective as she attacks her friends and tries to kill and assimilate them. She is not in control and neither are you. But with this, you remain in control of your actions but the game doesn't allow you options. You can stand there and do nothing, you can run around, you can beam out and abort the mission. To properly convey a loss of control, you should still hit the resist button and then your character follows instructions anyway. To reflect your character losing control of their actions, you should lose control of your character. Otherwise the game doesn't properly convey you being commanded against your will, it just railroads you instead. It is an immersion breaking difference.
You've played it through, does the woman survive? If she does, and can be saved, I can finish the mission. If not... I'll have to skip it and deal with the lack of character continuity. When I feel motivated to even play her again...
As the source for this episode in game. If you've watched that episode you'll see that Geordi is right there carrying on a conversation with his Romulan captors, saying stuff like this doesnt feel right. When they tell him to kill Chief O'Brian in a holo simulation. It's not a loss of control of ones character. Geordi was still himself he could still do his normal job, talk to people normally. But on command the Romulans could transmit to his brain (through his visor) and he pretty much does what they tells him to. Best they could do to replicate that in game was to have the dialogue options that were red/green.
Is this thread an example of people not bothering to pay attention to the text of the Mission so they really have no idea why they are doing what they are doing?
It';s about how people take RP way too seriously sometimes.
If I were to find anything offensive or disturbing is that the OP has no qualms about his/her character picking up a weapon and murdering one of his Bridge Officers.
That's probably because OP played long enough to realize it was a hologram, and must have decided no harm no foul.
Now if only OP would play the rest of the mission and realize the whole thing is basically that, just with mind-frakery instead of holograms.
That said, OP's post on immersion is pretty great. Kinda rekt everyone claiming OP's out of touch with reality. A+ post.
To the OP: I, too, play a Romulan and I had some trouble with the Mind Games mission however, I think I came out of it in a different place then you did, apparently.
The character is being tortured, mentally and emotionally, and is being forced to break their moral codes. This is what the Tal Shiar want: a broken psyche. One who joins of their own free will has a purpose, but there is always the treat that they will betray the Empire and the Tal Shiar. Break that will, destroy it, strip them of the one thing that feeds that will, hope, and you have a tool that will be loyal until the day they die. This is what the Ta Shair hope to gain when conducting experiments like this; forcing you to make choices you wouldnt normally make, commit crimes you would never do wilfully so your will is completely shattered.
The fact we came out of it with our minds intact and still knowing right from wrong should speak tantamount about our force of will that it is strong enough to overcome even the most brutal Tal Shiar conditioning.
Of course, my Rom may still be a Tal Shiar sleeper she isnt 100% certain. Maybe the mental abuse took more out of her than she thought. Maybe we didnt escape after all but it was all a plan by the Tal Shiar to release us, unsuspecting, back into the galaxy until the day we are called to activate
(oddly enough, I was more upset in killing the Epohh than the Romulan)
It's that the story has progressed in a direction that makes me very much not want to engage with it anymore because it forces my character to become unlikeable to me. It destroys my enjoyment of the story, and my willingness to continue.
Do you hate every character that gets brainwashed?
Of course it's fiction, duh that's a straw man argument at best. No one is discussing any failure to separate fiction from reality except for you. That's not at all the issue and you should know it.
The point is the engagement with the story, the immersion factor. Again, if you're not going to immerse in the story, let it make you think and feel and connect with the characters and their situation on a vicarious level, why are you even playing story missions at all? To not engage with the story is to lose the point of even having a story at all.
That established, a story can jump the shark if it commits certain acts that forcefully break a person's connection to the story. That can come in the form of plot holes or poor characterization causing a loss of the suspension of disbelief, or the characters can be rendered unlikeable or even reprehensible to the point it destroys your interest in following their story further. Just like people can ragequit a game for becoming frustrating to the point of not being fun anymore, a person can quit a story for crossing certain boundaries that make them no linger interested in continuing.
This is especially a factor in interactive media where you have control of a character that is your in-game avatar. The immersion level and thus the satisfaction of the player relies on the illusion of agency and the ability to identify with the character. Being railroaded into actions and character depictions that are objectionable is a fast track to immersion breaking and frustration. The story, and thus the game, can lose it's appeal based on those events. The shark can be jumped.
That's the point I'm making, not that "ZOMG this story has torture in it I'm offended get the morality police on the line I wanna press charges!". It's that the story has progressed in a direction that makes me very much not want to engage with it anymore because it forces my character to become unlikeable to me. It destroys my enjoyment of the story, and my willingness to continue.
TV Tropes calls those moments "wallbangers", and it's not even remotely uncommon to react to them in a fashion of throwing up your hands and saying "ok I'm out". Even if you don't quit, it still can affect your continuing enjoyment of the story because immersion remains broken. It's not irrational, it's not a failure to distinguish finction from reality, it's simply a part of how we interact with stories.
The fact that you personally don't see your character doing that is irrelevant. Your character is in a dream, and unless you have never had a nightmare in your life, you have no argument. Now tell me do all your dreams consist of pony's and sunshine or are some forcing you into situations where you are drowning or even hurting others? Do you get upset and .... nevermind trying to talk logic here is pointless.
To the op you obviously haven't read the mission briefing your character is being brainwashed with false memories turning you slowly into the empresses most lethal and Obedient Tal'Shiar operative if you took the time to even pay attention to the dialogue you would know and understand that and I find it funny that you think your character is torturing others, that is false your character isn't torturing anyone if you would have paid attention you are trying to resist but through out the whole mission while you are being brainwashed you are slowly turning into what the Empress wants, so no you are not torturing anyone at all. Your character is the one being tortured and brainwashed with borg implants/technology etc to make you into what the Empress wants again. You would know that if you actually paid attention to the dialogue and the only thing that saves you from being completely brainwashed and tortured is the Romulan Republic Agent who knocks you out and then reverses what was done to your character. So I think you should go back pay attention the mission and the dialogue cause as others have said or hinted at your character is being tortured and brainwashed loosing sense of who he/she is and that your character isn't torturing cause guess what you don't have control not anymore your character is losing control
To the op you obviously haven't read the mission briefing your character is being brainwashed with false memories turning you slowly into the empresses most lethal and Obedient Tal'Shiar operative if you took the time to even pay attention to the dialogue you would know and understand that and I find it funny that you think your character is torturing others, that is false your character isn't torturing anyone if you would have paid attention you are trying to resist but through out the whole mission while you are being brainwashed you are slowly turning into what the Empress wants, so no you are not torturing anyone at all. Your character is the one being tortured and brainwashed with borg implants/technology etc to make you into what the Empress wants again. You would know that if you actually paid attention to the dialogue and the only thing that saves you from being completely brainwashed and tortured is the Romulan Republic Agent who knocks you out and then reverses what was done to your character. So I think you should go back pay attention the mission and the dialogue cause as others have said or hinted at your character is being tortured and brainwashed loosing sense of who he/she is and that your character isn't torturing cause guess what you don't have control not anymore your character is losing control
.... nevermind trying to talk logic here is pointless.
That's because the post you quoted is more logical than the point you were trying to make. Having one's desire to continue an experience due to events one finds distasteful is hardly in and of itself a sign of any kind of instability. You might call a person easily disturbed by r*pe scenes in movies a coward, but you wouldn't call them mentally ill, would you? OP's situation isn't really that different - mutilation of a living, sapient creature is no less serious than any depiction of sexual assault. Most people can accept it as part of the story and move on, but not everyone can, and that's okay.
Do you hate every character that gets brainwashed?
Every character /= OP's character. Different situations.
FURTHER EDIT: Y'know, the last thing I expected was to be on OP's side when I read the OP, but now that I actually understand where they're coming from and not just latching onto the one line about being "shaken" by the mission, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, I still say OP needs to grit their teeth and power through, but I totally get their reasoning.
Again, I never reached a point where it was revealed that any of the events besides the holographic bridge officer did not actually occur. So I repeat my question, is it real or not? Do you actually mutilate an innocent woman or not? I aborted the mission before actually doing so, so I never saw anything past that point. I couldn't push that button knowing what was about to happen.
Perhaps I need to look up a walkthrough video so I can get a more complete picture.
How many times do people need to tell you that it is all a brainwashing? It is based off of a TNG episode.
And honestly, just to get to that mission you have killed thousands - and many of them were probably innocent. It seems like you picked an odd time to find morality.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Again, I never reached a point where it was revealed that any of the events besides the holographic bridge officer did not actually occur. So I repeat my question, is it real or not? Do you actually mutilate an innocent woman or not? I aborted the mission before actually doing so, so I never saw anything past that point. I couldn't push that button knowing what was about to happen.
Perhaps I need to look up a walkthrough video so I can get a more complete picture.
Oh, here's an idea... why don't you finish it yourself and find out? The details on whether or not you're actually doing those things is open to interpretation because the Tovan Khev inside your head is frequently stating that things are not what they seem and that you "can't trust what you're seeing." That's the way brainwashing works, your head is being played with. That's why the mission is called "Mind Game" after all.
That established, a story can jump the shark if it commits certain acts that forcefully break a person's connection to the story. That can come in the form of plot holes or poor characterization causing a loss of the suspension of disbelief, or the characters can be rendered unlikeable or even reprehensible to the point it destroys your interest in following their story further. Just like people can ragequit a game for becoming frustrating to the point of not being fun anymore, a person can quit a story for crossing certain boundaries that make them no linger interested in continuing.
Except at no point is your character put through a moment which could be considered characterization. For example do you consider what the Borg did to Picard a core part of his character? As in, do you consider that Picard is now unlikable because he was forced into committing acts which are, in themselves, reprehensible? No, he was forced into an awful situation and did things beyond his control. It wasn't him, it was the borg.
The same applies here (though as posted there is certainly a much closer analog to this mission in TNG...)
Cryptic presents the player with a situation where your character does not appear to have direct control over what they do. That may cause distress but its distress quite obviously intended to serve a narrative purpose. You may become detached from what your character does but only because you have completely missed the intent and impact of the plot (as well as several major plot points, as also pointed out.)
Its therefore hard to find any sympathy for rage quitters (in this case). You can certainly make a point about not liking what your avatar does but that just shows you've only engaged with the superficial details.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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To answer as solidly as possible, it's honestly not really clear. IIRC once you're freed of the mind control, there's no real evidence of anything you did to be found - no epohh dust, no test subject, nothing. But that doesn't mean it couldn't have been cleaned up after you got done with your indoctrination session. That said, the location is more than well enough equipped for the sort of things you did, so it's pretty unclear.
Not the answer you wanted, I suppose, but the upshot is it's a golden RP opportunity. You can choose to fill in the blank yourself, be it for good or ill, or you can take a third option and run with the uncertainty, which would be a great source of character-driving internal conflict.
That's because the post you quoted is more logical than the point you were trying to make. Having one's desire to continue an experience due to events one finds distasteful is hardly in and of itself a sign of any kind of instability. You might call a person easily disturbed by r*pe scenes in movies a coward, but you wouldn't call them mentally ill, would you? OP's situation isn't really that different - mutilation of a living, sapient creature is no less serious than any depiction of sexual assault. Most people can accept it as part of the story and move on, but not everyone can, and that's okay.
Every character /= OP's character. Different situations.
FURTHER EDIT: Y'know, the last thing I expected was to be on OP's side when I read the OP, but now that I actually understand where they're coming from and not just latching onto the one line about being "shaken" by the mission, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, I still say OP needs to grit their teeth and power through, but I totally get their reasoning.
Talk about hyperbole, you're honestly comparing the r word with turning someone into a robot? Seriously? Also, an intelligent person would walk out of the theatre and ask for their money back. Not stick around and expect the director to rewrite and reshoot the movie. I full support Cryptic on this mission for not whitewashing genuine Startrek Canon.
Also, an intelligent person would walk out of the theatre and ask for their money back. Not stick around and expect the director to rewrite and reshoot the movie. I full support Cryptic on this mission for not whitewashing genuine Startrek Canon.
This part I don't disagree with you on. OP needs to either roll on through or leave, end of story. My sympathizing with their position doesn't affect that conclusion.
Talk about hyperbole, you're honestly comparing the r word with turning someone into a robot? Seriously?
Oh yeah, I am. It's not nearly as hyperbolic as you might think, and I'd bet you only think it is because violence is vastly more accepted by modern society. Just because you can show more eviscerations than r*pe scenes in a movie doesn't mean both of those things aren't horrible, horrible things. It's hardly any more unreasonable to be uncomfortable with torture than it is sexual assault. R*pe as an example may be a little strong but there's not really much to compare against that makes the point as clearly.
had you been pre-warned, that this mission could have resulted in brianwashing etc, you
could argue that you led youself into a situation and so should be prepared to accept some
responsibilty for all your actions.. however you arrived in this situation through an act of self
sacrafice by remaining to destry that gate. you are then kidnapped, drugged and processed
for an indiscriminate length of time, days i believe according to your crew when you finally
meet back up with them. you really have had a full indoctrination. you are drugged, weak,
exhausted, fighting with voices in your mind, compelling you, making you think 1 thing whilst
seeing another etc. but there is an upside, your strength of character helps you pull through,
with some inside assistance. you go on to not only circumvent these experiments, but destroy
the system and gain documentation about what they have been doing. uiltimately preventing
many more of these attrocoties from occuring on this ship. in fact, id go as far as saying, not
seeing the mission through to its natural conclusion would be a greater travisty, as those system
will remain in place and result in greater pain and losses to many more innocents, such as youself.
This part I don't disagree with you on. OP needs to either roll on through or leave, end of story. My sympathizing with their position doesn't affect that conclusion.
Oh yeah, I am. It's not nearly as hyperbolic as you might think, and I'd bet you only think it is because violence is vastly more accepted by modern society. Just because you can show more eviscerations than r*pe scenes in a movie doesn't mean both of those things aren't horrible, horrible things. It's hardly any more unreasonable to be uncomfortable with torture than it is sexual assault. R*pe as an example may be a little strong but there's not really much to compare against that makes the point as clearly.
I was incorrect for bringing up the comparison, as it was hyperbole that was the established issue. The fact that many if not most people know all video games is what makes the comparison in itself hyperbolic as well as a movie example. Also there have been movies that have displayed such deplorable acts, as a means of giving the protagonist complex dimension that people can relate to. Example : Enough with Jennifer Lopez her partner beat her and she overcame. Should someone protest that Jennifer was filmed getting fictionally beaten up? Despite the victory against the odds of what many females sufferin real life? Should the act be the focus or should it be the whole story?
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
In war both sides believe themselves innocent, chaste and right. Guilt falls solely upon he who demands such things in order to maintain their own sense of innocence.
A Romulan who captains a ship can claim no more innocence than a Klingon, Human or Undine. In fact, the only race to even come close to a pure sense of innocence is the Borg; they do not kill out of hatred or malice, but for their own survival.
That's probably because OP played long enough to realize it was a hologram, and must have decided no harm no foul.
Now if only OP would play the rest of the mission and realize the whole thing is basically that, just with mind-frakery instead of holograms.
That said, OP's post on immersion is pretty great. Kinda rekt everyone claiming OP's out of touch with reality. A+ post.
After playing it I concluded that most of it was just in my head and didn't really happen. Several aspects of the mission are more than a little surreal... from an in-game perspective. It's a Cryptic mission where you can walk through some walls and other props. Also one of the NPCs changes gender at one point. You could call it a glitch, or maybe, given the context, consider it a feature.
To repeat what others have been trying to tell you OP...
The Tal Shiar are brainwashing your character into doing things - and this is not some new thing we're supposed to take at face value; they did it to La Forge in "The Mind's Eye" (Season 4, Ep. 24), and he nearly caused a massive incident. Plus much like the torture case of Cardassians vs. Picard, you are unable to do anything about it... except for the choice of resisting or not, but either way, what they want you to do WILL happen regardless.
By no accounts does this mean your character is responsible for these atrocities. It is the Tal Shiar's doing, and in any definition of good vs. evil, resisting under pressure shows moral character. Failing to stop it from happening does not reflect badly on you.
If you had given in without a struggle, then it's a different story.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Again, I never reached a point where it was revealed that any of the events besides the holographic bridge officer did not actually occur. So I repeat my question, is it real or not? Do you actually mutilate an innocent woman or not? I aborted the mission before actually doing so, so I never saw anything past that point. I couldn't push that button knowing what was about to happen.
Perhaps I need to look up a walkthrough video so I can get a more complete picture.
The events of that mission do really happen, but your character is not in control of her actions until shortly after the Borg lab scene. And you get to blow the absolute hell out of a Tal Shiar fleet at the end, which is (in my opinion) the most satisfying space battle in the game. Watching the Khnial disappear into a singularity breach, taking almost all of Hakeev's people with it, feels amazing.
If you still want to skip the mission, it's your game and your decision. But please don't complain to Cryptic about putting something "edgy" in the game. One could argue that Star Trek is all about exploring topics that people might not want to think about on their own.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Comments
Unlikely. She's still on board when you blow Hakeev's ship to kingdom come after your escape. However, I'd consider that a mercy considering what the Tal Shiar made you do to her.
You may want to seek help for your RL issues before playing a video game again. I'm being sincere.
O.M.F.G. :rolleyes:
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
You're breaking immersion by not continuing the story. If you wanted to play a game where you could be nothing but a Disney character, there are games for that. They are slightly less realistic, but at least you can maintain a faux sense morality,and still complete the story.
It wouldnt surprise me if they used
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Mind%27s_Eye_%28episode%29
As the source for this episode in game. If you've watched that episode you'll see that Geordi is right there carrying on a conversation with his Romulan captors, saying stuff like this doesnt feel right. When they tell him to kill Chief O'Brian in a holo simulation. It's not a loss of control of ones character. Geordi was still himself he could still do his normal job, talk to people normally. But on command the Romulans could transmit to his brain (through his visor) and he pretty much does what they tells him to. Best they could do to replicate that in game was to have the dialogue options that were red/green.
I am offended by your sound logic and facts.
It';s about how people take RP way too seriously sometimes.
That's probably because OP played long enough to realize it was a hologram, and must have decided no harm no foul.
Now if only OP would play the rest of the mission and realize the whole thing is basically that, just with mind-frakery instead of holograms.
That said, OP's post on immersion is pretty great. Kinda rekt everyone claiming OP's out of touch with reality. A+ post.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
The character is being tortured, mentally and emotionally, and is being forced to break their moral codes. This is what the Tal Shiar want: a broken psyche. One who joins of their own free will has a purpose, but there is always the treat that they will betray the Empire and the Tal Shiar. Break that will, destroy it, strip them of the one thing that feeds that will, hope, and you have a tool that will be loyal until the day they die. This is what the Ta Shair hope to gain when conducting experiments like this; forcing you to make choices you wouldnt normally make, commit crimes you would never do wilfully so your will is completely shattered.
The fact we came out of it with our minds intact and still knowing right from wrong should speak tantamount about our force of will that it is strong enough to overcome even the most brutal Tal Shiar conditioning.
Of course, my Rom may still be a Tal Shiar sleeper she isnt 100% certain. Maybe the mental abuse took more out of her than she thought. Maybe we didnt escape after all but it was all a plan by the Tal Shiar to release us, unsuspecting, back into the galaxy until the day we are called to activate
(oddly enough, I was more upset in killing the Epohh than the Romulan)
Do you hate every character that gets brainwashed?
The fact that you personally don't see your character doing that is irrelevant. Your character is in a dream, and unless you have never had a nightmare in your life, you have no argument. Now tell me do all your dreams consist of pony's and sunshine or are some forcing you into situations where you are drowning or even hurting others? Do you get upset and .... nevermind trying to talk logic here is pointless.
I am sad cause you had to type that out.
That's because the post you quoted is more logical than the point you were trying to make. Having one's desire to continue an experience due to events one finds distasteful is hardly in and of itself a sign of any kind of instability. You might call a person easily disturbed by r*pe scenes in movies a coward, but you wouldn't call them mentally ill, would you? OP's situation isn't really that different - mutilation of a living, sapient creature is no less serious than any depiction of sexual assault. Most people can accept it as part of the story and move on, but not everyone can, and that's okay.
Every character /= OP's character. Different situations.
FURTHER EDIT: Y'know, the last thing I expected was to be on OP's side when I read the OP, but now that I actually understand where they're coming from and not just latching onto the one line about being "shaken" by the mission, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, I still say OP needs to grit their teeth and power through, but I totally get their reasoning.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
And honestly, just to get to that mission you have killed thousands - and many of them were probably innocent. It seems like you picked an odd time to find morality.
Oh, here's an idea... why don't you finish it yourself and find out? The details on whether or not you're actually doing those things is open to interpretation because the Tovan Khev inside your head is frequently stating that things are not what they seem and that you "can't trust what you're seeing." That's the way brainwashing works, your head is being played with. That's why the mission is called "Mind Game" after all.
Except at no point is your character put through a moment which could be considered characterization. For example do you consider what the Borg did to Picard a core part of his character? As in, do you consider that Picard is now unlikable because he was forced into committing acts which are, in themselves, reprehensible? No, he was forced into an awful situation and did things beyond his control. It wasn't him, it was the borg.
The same applies here (though as posted there is certainly a much closer analog to this mission in TNG...)
Cryptic presents the player with a situation where your character does not appear to have direct control over what they do. That may cause distress but its distress quite obviously intended to serve a narrative purpose. You may become detached from what your character does but only because you have completely missed the intent and impact of the plot (as well as several major plot points, as also pointed out.)
Its therefore hard to find any sympathy for rage quitters (in this case). You can certainly make a point about not liking what your avatar does but that just shows you've only engaged with the superficial details.
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Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
To answer as solidly as possible, it's honestly not really clear. IIRC once you're freed of the mind control, there's no real evidence of anything you did to be found - no epohh dust, no test subject, nothing. But that doesn't mean it couldn't have been cleaned up after you got done with your indoctrination session. That said, the location is more than well enough equipped for the sort of things you did, so it's pretty unclear.
Not the answer you wanted, I suppose, but the upshot is it's a golden RP opportunity. You can choose to fill in the blank yourself, be it for good or ill, or you can take a third option and run with the uncertainty, which would be a great source of character-driving internal conflict.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Talk about hyperbole, you're honestly comparing the r word with turning someone into a robot? Seriously? Also, an intelligent person would walk out of the theatre and ask for their money back. Not stick around and expect the director to rewrite and reshoot the movie. I full support Cryptic on this mission for not whitewashing genuine Startrek Canon.
This part I don't disagree with you on. OP needs to either roll on through or leave, end of story. My sympathizing with their position doesn't affect that conclusion.
Oh yeah, I am. It's not nearly as hyperbolic as you might think, and I'd bet you only think it is because violence is vastly more accepted by modern society. Just because you can show more eviscerations than r*pe scenes in a movie doesn't mean both of those things aren't horrible, horrible things. It's hardly any more unreasonable to be uncomfortable with torture than it is sexual assault. R*pe as an example may be a little strong but there's not really much to compare against that makes the point as clearly.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
could argue that you led youself into a situation and so should be prepared to accept some
responsibilty for all your actions.. however you arrived in this situation through an act of self
sacrafice by remaining to destry that gate. you are then kidnapped, drugged and processed
for an indiscriminate length of time, days i believe according to your crew when you finally
meet back up with them. you really have had a full indoctrination. you are drugged, weak,
exhausted, fighting with voices in your mind, compelling you, making you think 1 thing whilst
seeing another etc. but there is an upside, your strength of character helps you pull through,
with some inside assistance. you go on to not only circumvent these experiments, but destroy
the system and gain documentation about what they have been doing. uiltimately preventing
many more of these attrocoties from occuring on this ship. in fact, id go as far as saying, not
seeing the mission through to its natural conclusion would be a greater travisty, as those system
will remain in place and result in greater pain and losses to many more innocents, such as youself.
I was incorrect for bringing up the comparison, as it was hyperbole that was the established issue. The fact that many if not most people know all video games is what makes the comparison in itself hyperbolic as well as a movie example. Also there have been movies that have displayed such deplorable acts, as a means of giving the protagonist complex dimension that people can relate to. Example : Enough with Jennifer Lopez her partner beat her and she overcame. Should someone protest that Jennifer was filmed getting fictionally beaten up? Despite the victory against the odds of what many females sufferin real life? Should the act be the focus or should it be the whole story?
Did you knew you could revive the epohhs AFTER the thalaron blast?
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
I'm sure Captain Picard would also just as easily skip the whole Locutus/Wolf 359 incident if he could too.
A Romulan who captains a ship can claim no more innocence than a Klingon, Human or Undine. In fact, the only race to even come close to a pure sense of innocence is the Borg; they do not kill out of hatred or malice, but for their own survival.
My character Tsin'xing
The Tal Shiar are brainwashing your character into doing things - and this is not some new thing we're supposed to take at face value; they did it to La Forge in "The Mind's Eye" (Season 4, Ep. 24), and he nearly caused a massive incident. Plus much like the torture case of Cardassians vs. Picard, you are unable to do anything about it... except for the choice of resisting or not, but either way, what they want you to do WILL happen regardless.
By no accounts does this mean your character is responsible for these atrocities. It is the Tal Shiar's doing, and in any definition of good vs. evil, resisting under pressure shows moral character. Failing to stop it from happening does not reflect badly on you.
If you had given in without a struggle, then it's a different story.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The events of that mission do really happen, but your character is not in control of her actions until shortly after the Borg lab scene. And you get to blow the absolute hell out of a Tal Shiar fleet at the end, which is (in my opinion) the most satisfying space battle in the game. Watching the Khnial disappear into a singularity breach, taking almost all of Hakeev's people with it, feels amazing.
If you still want to skip the mission, it's your game and your decision. But please don't complain to Cryptic about putting something "edgy" in the game. One could argue that Star Trek is all about exploring topics that people might not want to think about on their own.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone