You are supposed to feel like you are being tortured. So the fact you want to quit the mission means it is working.
I recall you could keep refusing to kill the person and eventually whatever selection you make you shoot them. I don't recall not having a choice, just that your trigger finger does not obey your choice.
You are supposed to feel like you are being tortured. So the fact you want to quit the mission means it is working.
I recall you could keep refusing to kill the person and eventually whatever selection you make you shoot them. I don't recall not having a choice, just that your trigger finger does not obey your choice.
so this right here, as you said you do not have a choice at all plus you are being tortured and you do not have a choice at all when u pull the trigger all of this mission shows that you are losing control
so this right here, as you said you do not have a choice at all plus you are being tortured and you do not have a choice at all when u pull the trigger all of this mission shows that you are losing control
Darthmeow is referring to a later part of the mission, when you're being forced to stick Borg implants into a prisoner. You can refuse to do so; you can try to kill the prisoner to save her from the implants; but ultimately, you will be forced, against your will, to turn her into a drone.
Later, when your shackles have been broken, you'll be able to give her a fairly meaningful (IMO) death, as she distracts your captors while you gather info on Hakeev and escape...
The point of the whole mission is similar to the point of what's-his-ridges, the gul who captured and tortured Picard, trying to get Picard to say he saw five lights. If you can break the prisoner's will, it's much easier to get them to talk (or to change sides). The Tal'Shiar want you to decide it's pointless to resist them; once you do that, they can get you to do just about anything. (See also the "one last inch" monologue in V For Vendetta, and Evie's subsequent decision.)
Darthmeow is referring to a later part of the mission, when you're being forced to stick Borg implants into a prisoner. You can refuse to do so; you can try to kill the prisoner to save her from the implants; but ultimately, you will be forced, against your will, to turn her into a drone.
Later, when your shackles have been broken, you'll be able to give her a fairly meaningful (IMO) death, as she distracts your captors while you gather info on Hakeev and escape...
The point of the whole mission is similar to the point of what's-his-ridges, the gul who captured and tortured Picard, trying to get Picard to say he saw five lights. If you can break the prisoner's will, it's much easier to get them to talk (or to change sides). The Tal'Shiar want you to decide it's pointless to resist them; once you do that, they can get you to do just about anything. (See also the "one last inch" monologue in V For Vendetta, and Evie's subsequent decision.)
I understand what op is trying to say but it is still the same you are losing control if you will, you are being tortured reprogramed into what the empress wants, through out this whole mission it is showing u have zero control sure you can resist but in the end losing the will to resist thanks to borg tech and whatever else is in you. It is showing that you are slipping to the point if it keeps going you won't resist, you won't try to save others etc
What would make it even more cool is if there were REAL repercussions for your choices in the game. Perhaps rewards or titles are different perhaps you gain access to additional or alternative missions based upon the choices made in a previous mission.
Lets say you are a Starfleet Captain faced with a choice of letting an entire planet be wiped out by a natural disaster or intervening. The planets native spices is a pre-warp or primitive people, therefore the Prime Directive applies: we can not intervene. As a Captain, can you follow orders and just walk away as millions of lives are extinguished? Lives that YOU could have saved? Lets say you do and are awarded the title Heartless or something and have access to 3-4 additional missions that can only be accessed with this title, each with their own rewards, etc.
Alternatively, you decide to Kirk it and save the planet. After you are hailed by Starfleet Command and admonished. You receive the title of Loose Cannon and, as a result, have available 3-4 missions linked to this particular title.
This could come into play with the Section 31 missions as well, I would imagine
It would cause a player to think before acting and add to an element of story within the game.
That would be awesome.
They don't seem willjng to invest in more missions not everyone can play, but it'd be interesting if these accolades could be used to offer a new dialogue or action choice in certain missions like Diplomacy does.
The pc that you implant changes gender randomly though. I've played mind games on two different characters. Once it was male, the other time, female.
hmm interesting. for me the person implanted was Hiven, the weak free boff from the start mission. the person i was asked to kill was the reman free boff, the girl from crateris.
at the time i played i did not really know how the boff system worked so i just used the free ones. though funnily enough i later ended up spacing Hiven when i got a sci boff with rom operative and will do the same to the reman boff when i find a replacment with RO.
the storylines are a bit stupid and are constructed maybe with a strange view of how characters would react. but i think the story is prob meant as a backdrop to the pew pew
it was obvious from a few seconds in that Zelle was an undine in divide et impera. why would someone go and break the Prime directive on such a flimsy pretext. so ridiculous, i would have just blasted her with my biomolecular pulswave
SPOILER ALERTS below
also that mission where you let obisek run away with WMD is kinda messed up and I'm like WTF? i would have just shot him instead of just standing around gossiping with that terrorist
also the early ep where the madman slomek was like gonna blow up the whole planet and kill everyone rather than surrender to TS. anyone with a normal mind would have just shot him instead of letting him kill millions or billions in his madness. and we are supposed to be his friend later when we rescue the terrorist from a prison. WTF?
though i think the main flaw to the rom storyline is that you are forced to go along with the loser d'tan and his plot to assimilate the romulans into the vulcan's commieland. not much better than being a borg drone imo.
also the end of the rom rep is so funny and stupid. after you finish collecting a billion marks and helping build Mol'chernobyl, you nearly destroy it by discovering a iconian gateway
hmm interesting. for me the person implanted was Hiven, the weak free boff from the start mission. the person i was asked to kill was the reman free boff, the girl from crateris.
at the time i played i did not really know how the boff system worked so i just used the free ones. though funnily enough i later ended up spacing Hiven when i got a sci boff with rom operative and will do the same to the reman boff when i find a replacment with RO.
I may not use them often but I keep them because they have unique outfit options.
Am I a bad person that I don't even remember this mission?
Not really. I barely remember it. It's one mission out of how many? In a video game. You do it, finish it and then move on forget it.
Getting all upset over it like the OP,... seems a bit ridiculous to me. A video game scenario, even an arguably "heinous" one, is not on any level, the equivalent of going out kidnapping someone at random and torturing them, for the fun of it. OP's claims to the contrary.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
I remember this mission quite clearly. It upset me. It made me angry. Not at the programmers - at Hakeev, for what he was putting Nniol through.
It was frakking magnificent.
And then on Brea III, when I got to plug that b*stard myself... glorious.
more fun... keep the melee weapon from coliseum. let your allies take on the adds and kill him with said melee weapon... it a shame the cut scene makes you shoot em. takes a little work but man is it nice.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
What would make it even more cool is if there were REAL repercussions for your choices in the game. Perhaps rewards or titles are different perhaps you gain access to additional or alternative missions based upon the choices made in a previous mission.
Lets say you are a Starfleet Captain faced with a choice of letting an entire planet be wiped out by a natural disaster or intervening. The planets native spices is a pre-warp or primitive people, therefore the Prime Directive applies: we can not intervene. As a Captain, can you follow orders and just walk away as millions of lives are extinguished? Lives that YOU could have saved? Lets say you do and are awarded the title Heartless or something and have access to 3-4 additional missions that can only be accessed with this title, each with their own rewards, etc.
Alternatively, you decide to Kirk it and save the planet. After you are hailed by Starfleet Command and admonished. You receive the title of Loose Cannon and, as a result, have available 3-4 missions linked to this particular title.
This could come into play with the Section 31 missions as well, I would imagine
It would cause a player to think before acting and add to an element of story within the game.
See, I disagree with that interpretation of the PD. I feel it results in false dilemmas and deluded captains who think they're idealists upholding some vaunted natural order, when what they really are is lazy holier-than-thou @ssholes. Every time you let an intelligent species die off when you could've done something, you're guilty of negligent genocide.
The only stoppable natural disasters, as opposed to a self-inflicted disaster such as global warming, that would kill off an entire planet's population would be either an asteroid collision or a plague. The former is something Starfleet is completely capable of fixing without the locals being any the wiser -- short burst with the tractor beam, or a couple of torpedoes against the asteroid. All you need is a fraction of a degree of course change. At space distances, that's more than enough for a clean miss. So to hell the Prime Directive in that instance, it doesn't even apply.
In the latter case? The trick, again, is minimal interference without letting them know you're there, just like if you're doing a deep-cover mission to see if a species is ready for first contact as Riker did in a TNG episode. Use Federation super-science to find the cure and then just nudge them in the right direction if they've got the tech. If they're not, the situation gets more complicated. I'd envision use of a genetically altered virus to spread a vaccine.
But you do interfere, even if what it ultimately takes is beaming into the president's office and saying, "Hi, I'm Bob Jones and this drug will cure the epidemic. Bye now." *beams out* Because otherwise if you don't, you're a genocidal dickhead undeserving of the uniform.
One of the few VOY episodes I really enjoyed was "Prime Factors" for pointing out the obvious, that being what it looks like when somebody else uses your own "we can't help you because we have high-minded ideals and such" logic against you.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
All stories should progress and end with happy events full of rainbows, tribbles, epohhs, and flying My Little Ponies.
My only issue with Hakeev and the Tal Shiar's depiction with the Rom campaign was that they were comically terrible villains. They're so blatantly, cheaply made to be vile and idiotic to make them contrast to the Pro-Submissionist D'Tan's Republic.
poor Geordi he is always being ues for something you got one you talking about and in generations man cant get a barke
pshaw... O'Brien had it way worse on DS9. That poor guy had a tragedy every other episode. Hell, one episode I'm not sure the 'real' one survived it or his time traveling duplicate did!
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
poor Geordi he is always being ues for something you got one you talking about and in generations man cant get a barke
I don't recall Geordi ever being interested in getting a dog. I'm sure he would have been allowed to have one too if he wanted one, since other members of the crew had pets.
See, I disagree with that interpretation of the PD. I feel it results in false dilemmas and deluded captains who think they're idealists upholding some vaunted natural order, when what they really are is lazy holier-than-thou @ssholes. Every time you let an intelligent species die off when you could've done something, you're guilty of negligent genocide.
The only stoppable natural disasters, as opposed to a self-inflicted disaster such as global warming, that would kill off an entire planet's population would be either an asteroid collision or a plague. The former is something Starfleet is completely capable of fixing without the locals being any the wiser -- short burst with the tractor beam, or a couple of torpedoes against the asteroid. All you need is a fraction of a degree of course change. At space distances, that's more than enough for a clean miss. So to hell the Prime Directive in that instance, it doesn't even apply.
In the latter case? The trick, again, is minimal interference without letting them know you're there, just like if you're doing a deep-cover mission to see if a species is ready for first contact as Riker did in a TNG episode. Use Federation super-science to find the cure and then just nudge them in the right direction if they've got the tech. If they're not, the situation gets more complicated. I'd envision use of a genetically altered virus to spread a vaccine.
But you do interfere, even if what it ultimately takes is beaming into the president's office and saying, "Hi, I'm Bob Jones and this drug will cure the epidemic. Bye now." *beams out* Because otherwise if you don't, you're a genocidal dickhead undeserving of the uniform.
One of the few VOY episodes I really enjoyed was "Prime Factors" for pointing out the obvious, that being what it looks like when somebody else uses your own "we can't help you because we have high-minded ideals and such" logic against you.
That is one of the problems with the Prime Directive. It was interpreted so simplistically in some episodes and challenged so creatively in others.
The examples you gave are all ones where in the series they do interfere. There's still times when the only solution is to evacuate, though. A star going Nova, or a pre-industrial society caught in the crossover of these wars (Borg tend to prefer advanced species but are they gonna be picky about who's discovered warp drive when they need some quick drones?). There was the episode with Worf's brother. Suppose you have to evacuate but the society is preindustrial. Do you trick a group of people to get them offworld, do you let them die, or do you approach them openly and offer a trip away?
Now the Prime Directive episodes that are truly difficult are the ones where you'd need to step in politically to prevent a disaster or even just a personal issue. The episode with the scientist who was dating Lwaxana Troi and was required to ritually kill himself at a certain age, but he was working on a solution to save the planet from a natural disaster. There are those sort of personal problems.
And then there's just... Look, there's at least 6 different wars going on here. Fed vs Klingon, Fed vs Romulan Star Empire, Romulan Republic vs Romulan Star Empire, Romulan/Klingon/Fed Alliance vs the True Way and transplanted Dominion Forces, Alliance vs the Borg, Alliance vs the Undine, Alliance vs the Voth and now all this stuff in the Delta Quadrant. How is it no pre-warp planets have gotten caught up in the crossfire? What sorts of problems happen if they do?
There could a lot of different choices for a Fed Captain that way, several that would probably fall under the umbrella of "good guy" still.
Seriously what is the OP complaining about? A great story is supposed to put you out of your comfort zone, it is supposed to explore the darker side of human nature etc bla bla
Wait wait wait...I doffed from 11-50 on my ROM and haven't done most of the story line missions yet...
You're telling me we *can't* join the Talk Shiar? Dude! Thanks for ruining my Romulan, Devs!
*sigh*
This.
This was one of the most disappointing aspects of the Rom story. why be a Rom if you have to be a goody-goody who is a loser who doesn't even have their own military and has to join someone else's, and serving D'tan the commie, in his glorious quest to change your people back into Vulcans.
even d'tan says they left vulcan for freedom and now he wants to take them back.
Also - many people are talkiing about the mission where you kill Hakeev. personally i thought it was totally stupid and silly. Hakeev was like strolling around in the middle of a maze without a care in the world and you just walk up and shoot him. his death was rather comical in that strange STO Way.
Hakeev was like strolling around in the middle of a maze without a care in the world and you just walk up and shoot him. his death was rather comical in that strange STO Way.
That's a rather... idiosyncratic interpretation of the events. So, all the soldiers trying to kill you were just walls? His meeting with Sela was what, a hallucination?
I begin to wonder if you are in fact playing the same game the rest of us are...
That's a rather... idiosyncratic interpretation of the events. So, all the soldiers trying to kill you were just walls? His meeting with Sela was what, a hallucination?
I begin to wonder if you are in fact playing the same game the rest of us are...
Yeah, that post was an eyebrow raiser for me too. Did I just imagine all of those guards he had with him?
Comments
http://youtu.be/wRRrL4wKDgg?t=2m48s
I recall you could keep refusing to kill the person and eventually whatever selection you make you shoot them. I don't recall not having a choice, just that your trigger finger does not obey your choice.
so this right here, as you said you do not have a choice at all plus you are being tortured and you do not have a choice at all when u pull the trigger all of this mission shows that you are losing control
Later, when your shackles have been broken, you'll be able to give her a fairly meaningful (IMO) death, as she distracts your captors while you gather info on Hakeev and escape...
The point of the whole mission is similar to the point of what's-his-ridges, the gul who captured and tortured Picard, trying to get Picard to say he saw five lights. If you can break the prisoner's will, it's much easier to get them to talk (or to change sides). The Tal'Shiar want you to decide it's pointless to resist them; once you do that, they can get you to do just about anything. (See also the "one last inch" monologue in V For Vendetta, and Evie's subsequent decision.)
I understand what op is trying to say but it is still the same you are losing control if you will, you are being tortured reprogramed into what the empress wants, through out this whole mission it is showing u have zero control sure you can resist but in the end losing the will to resist thanks to borg tech and whatever else is in you. It is showing that you are slipping to the point if it keeps going you won't resist, you won't try to save others etc
That would be awesome.
They don't seem willjng to invest in more missions not everyone can play, but it'd be interesting if these accolades could be used to offer a new dialogue or action choice in certain missions like Diplomacy does.
hmm interesting. for me the person implanted was Hiven, the weak free boff from the start mission. the person i was asked to kill was the reman free boff, the girl from crateris.
at the time i played i did not really know how the boff system worked so i just used the free ones. though funnily enough i later ended up spacing Hiven when i got a sci boff with rom operative and will do the same to the reman boff when i find a replacment with RO.
the storylines are a bit stupid and are constructed maybe with a strange view of how characters would react. but i think the story is prob meant as a backdrop to the pew pew
it was obvious from a few seconds in that Zelle was an undine in divide et impera. why would someone go and break the Prime directive on such a flimsy pretext. so ridiculous, i would have just blasted her with my biomolecular pulswave
SPOILER ALERTS below
also that mission where you let obisek run away with WMD is kinda messed up and I'm like WTF? i would have just shot him instead of just standing around gossiping with that terrorist
also the early ep where the madman slomek was like gonna blow up the whole planet and kill everyone rather than surrender to TS. anyone with a normal mind would have just shot him instead of letting him kill millions or billions in his madness. and we are supposed to be his friend later when we rescue the terrorist from a prison. WTF?
though i think the main flaw to the rom storyline is that you are forced to go along with the loser d'tan and his plot to assimilate the romulans into the vulcan's commieland. not much better than being a borg drone imo.
also the end of the rom rep is so funny and stupid. after you finish collecting a billion marks and helping build Mol'chernobyl, you nearly destroy it by discovering a iconian gateway
My character Tsin'xing
Am I a bad person that I don't even remember this mission?
Not really. I barely remember it. It's one mission out of how many? In a video game. You do it, finish it and then move on forget it.
Getting all upset over it like the OP,... seems a bit ridiculous to me. A video game scenario, even an arguably "heinous" one, is not on any level, the equivalent of going out kidnapping someone at random and torturing them, for the fun of it. OP's claims to the contrary.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
It was frakking magnificent.
And then on Brea III, when I got to plug that b*stard myself... glorious.
more fun... keep the melee weapon from coliseum. let your allies take on the adds and kill him with said melee weapon... it a shame the cut scene makes you shoot em. takes a little work but man is it nice.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
you sir are a bad man! sorry had to
system Lord Baal is dead
The only stoppable natural disasters, as opposed to a self-inflicted disaster such as global warming, that would kill off an entire planet's population would be either an asteroid collision or a plague. The former is something Starfleet is completely capable of fixing without the locals being any the wiser -- short burst with the tractor beam, or a couple of torpedoes against the asteroid. All you need is a fraction of a degree of course change. At space distances, that's more than enough for a clean miss. So to hell the Prime Directive in that instance, it doesn't even apply.
In the latter case? The trick, again, is minimal interference without letting them know you're there, just like if you're doing a deep-cover mission to see if a species is ready for first contact as Riker did in a TNG episode. Use Federation super-science to find the cure and then just nudge them in the right direction if they've got the tech. If they're not, the situation gets more complicated. I'd envision use of a genetically altered virus to spread a vaccine.
But you do interfere, even if what it ultimately takes is beaming into the president's office and saying, "Hi, I'm Bob Jones and this drug will cure the epidemic. Bye now." *beams out* Because otherwise if you don't, you're a genocidal dickhead undeserving of the uniform.
One of the few VOY episodes I really enjoyed was "Prime Factors" for pointing out the obvious, that being what it looks like when somebody else uses your own "we can't help you because we have high-minded ideals and such" logic against you.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My only issue with Hakeev and the Tal Shiar's depiction with the Rom campaign was that they were comically terrible villains. They're so blatantly, cheaply made to be vile and idiotic to make them contrast to the Pro-Submissionist D'Tan's Republic.
my little ponies make good testing subjects for my thalaron generators
system Lord Baal is dead
poor Geordi he is always being ues for something you got one you talking about and in generations man cant get a barke
system Lord Baal is dead
pshaw... O'Brien had it way worse on DS9. That poor guy had a tragedy every other episode. Hell, one episode I'm not sure the 'real' one survived it or his time traveling duplicate did!
I don't recall Geordi ever being interested in getting a dog. I'm sure he would have been allowed to have one too if he wanted one, since other members of the crew had pets.
That is one of the problems with the Prime Directive. It was interpreted so simplistically in some episodes and challenged so creatively in others.
The examples you gave are all ones where in the series they do interfere. There's still times when the only solution is to evacuate, though. A star going Nova, or a pre-industrial society caught in the crossover of these wars (Borg tend to prefer advanced species but are they gonna be picky about who's discovered warp drive when they need some quick drones?). There was the episode with Worf's brother. Suppose you have to evacuate but the society is preindustrial. Do you trick a group of people to get them offworld, do you let them die, or do you approach them openly and offer a trip away?
Now the Prime Directive episodes that are truly difficult are the ones where you'd need to step in politically to prevent a disaster or even just a personal issue. The episode with the scientist who was dating Lwaxana Troi and was required to ritually kill himself at a certain age, but he was working on a solution to save the planet from a natural disaster. There are those sort of personal problems.
And then there's just... Look, there's at least 6 different wars going on here. Fed vs Klingon, Fed vs Romulan Star Empire, Romulan Republic vs Romulan Star Empire, Romulan/Klingon/Fed Alliance vs the True Way and transplanted Dominion Forces, Alliance vs the Borg, Alliance vs the Undine, Alliance vs the Voth and now all this stuff in the Delta Quadrant. How is it no pre-warp planets have gotten caught up in the crossfire? What sorts of problems happen if they do?
There could a lot of different choices for a Fed Captain that way, several that would probably fall under the umbrella of "good guy" still.
Seriously grow up it's a game...
Exposing fakes since 2374
You are a person of good taste... -thumbs up-
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
This.
This was one of the most disappointing aspects of the Rom story. why be a Rom if you have to be a goody-goody who is a loser who doesn't even have their own military and has to join someone else's, and serving D'tan the commie, in his glorious quest to change your people back into Vulcans.
even d'tan says they left vulcan for freedom and now he wants to take them back.
Also - many people are talkiing about the mission where you kill Hakeev. personally i thought it was totally stupid and silly. Hakeev was like strolling around in the middle of a maze without a care in the world and you just walk up and shoot him. his death was rather comical in that strange STO Way.
I begin to wonder if you are in fact playing the same game the rest of us are...
Other then that, this isnt a very choice happy game. Its no Skyrim or Fallout.
-V
Yeah, that post was an eyebrow raiser for me too. Did I just imagine all of those guards he had with him?