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Thanks for killing my Romulan, Cryptic

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  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    I can make a Talaxian grass eel fly.

    Admittedly, it only flies briefly, mostly downward, and usually lands poorly...


    Heh, well there is that... but can you make it fly of its own accord? ;)
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  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,891 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    Epohhs aren't sapient organisms capable of begging you not to do horrible things to them. And at least they didn't suffer for long, unlike the poor TRIBBLE you were experimenting on.



    All they did was change all the Starfleet NPCs over to the Odyssey uniform. They didn't actually alter the script.

    So? They're still living creatures...last time I checked people can recover from partial assimilation...little harder to recover from being practically vaporized by thalaron radiation...
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lianthelia wrote: »
    So? They're still living creatures...last time I checked people can recover from partial assimilation...little harder to recover from being practically vaporized by thalaron radiation...

    The sheer quantity of living creatures I've killed (and eaten) IRL really prevents me from concern about pixelated imaginary creatures suffering a pixelated imaginary death
  • originalspockoriginalspock Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    Did I say "every Klingon"? Or did I say "average Klingon"? I think I said "average". Pretty sure it was "average". Did I say "average"?

    Yeah, thought so. The word I used was "average". The average Klingon off the street acts a hell of a lot more like Duras than Worf. Hell, even Martok's own son Drex was that type in his only appearance.


    Maybe, but it's more convenient to use than the alternative because it doesn't get autocensored. :D


    :rolleyes: @ ----> your dishonest quote mining

    What's good for the goose is good for the gander.



    Wrong franchise. We're all about stuff being faaaaaaake.


    I disagree about the Klingon average attitude, in DS9 which was the final real story of what happened to the Klingons. After the fall of Gowron, the older wiser leaders were no longer slaves to their misguided sense of honor and duty.

    Real change happened to the empire. Shown Here
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,891 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The sheer quantity of living creatures I've killed (and eaten) IRL really prevents me from concern about pixelated imaginary creatures suffering a pixelated imaginary death

    Well that reply wasn't aimed at you...I'm guessing you would have no problem with the assimilation either.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    It was a rough mission. That alone really made my character hate the Tal Shair. And it shows just how evil they really are. Even Picard suffered when he was with them for a time being.

    If you don't like the mission, you can skip them and keep going. There is a mission or 2 I had to skip. Like that Dyson one where a group is required to finish.
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  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,788 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Wait wait wait...I doffed from 11-50 on my ROM and haven't done most of the story line missions yet...

    You're telling me we *can't* join the Talk Shiar? Dude! Thanks for ruining my Romulan, Devs!

    *sigh*


    Not really, no.

    Although, I took the Tal'Shiar Uniform and added it to a Romulan skirt that has the same design patterns on the side and then sided with Tal'Shiar every chance I got. I even have her flying a Tal'Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser. As far as I am concerned, my Rommie is an undercover agent that has infiltrated the Republic and the Federation. I'mma gonna have her Specialize in Intelligence too, if it's an option.

    Your character can, also. We can be spies together. (^___^)
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I personally think we need MORE missions like this, to be honest.

    Have a dilemma with Klingons regarding honor – forced to perform a cowardly, dishonorable act in order to preserve a greater honor or even the honor of another? (i.e. the House of Mogh storyline)

    Have a one with Starfleet over adhering to the Prime Directive and letting a planet die or violating their sworn oath and intervening.

    In fact, if you can write a mission where people are talking about it long after, you’ve done a good job.

    In my foundry missions I try to write in a moral dilemma of some sort. A scenario where you have to make a choice: save the girl or save the ambassador, etc. Force a player to consider duty over personal feelings… what would your character be willing to risk for what he/she believes is “right” Their ship? Their career? Their own lives?

    Yes, we need more missions like this, not less.
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  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,788 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    prierin wrote: »

    Have a one with Starfleet over adhering to the Prime Directive and letting a planet die or violating their sworn oath and intervening.



    That would be cool. Although there is that Section 31 Mission where you have to make a moral decision. That one was nice also, though not on the level that the Rommie one is.
  • originalspockoriginalspock Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    I personally think we need MORE missions like this, to be honest.

    Have a dilemma with Klingons regarding honor – forced to perform a cowardly, dishonorable act in order to preserve a greater honor or even the honor of another? (i.e. the House of Mogh storyline)

    Have a one with Starfleet over adhering to the Prime Directive and letting a planet die or violating their sworn oath and intervening.

    In fact, if you can write a mission where people are talking about it long after, you’ve done a good job.

    In my foundry missions I try to write in a moral dilemma of some sort. A scenario where you have to make a choice: save the girl or save the ambassador, etc. Force a player to consider duty over personal feelings… what would your character be willing to risk for what he/she believes is “right” Their ship? Their career? Their own lives?

    Yes, we need more missions like this, not less.



    Well said.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    I personally think we need MORE missions like this, to be honest.

    Have a dilemma with Klingons regarding honor – forced to perform a cowardly, dishonorable act in order to preserve a greater honor or even the honor of another? (i.e. the House of Mogh storyline)

    Have a one with Starfleet over adhering to the Prime Directive and letting a planet die or violating their sworn oath and intervening.

    In fact, if you can write a mission where people are talking about it long after, you’ve done a good job.

    In my foundry missions I try to write in a moral dilemma of some sort. A scenario where you have to make a choice: save the girl or save the ambassador, etc. Force a player to consider duty over personal feelings… what would your character be willing to risk for what he/she believes is “right” Their ship? Their career? Their own lives?

    Yes, we need more missions like this, not less.

    Well said, I love missions like this. Where your choice will reflect your course of action and outcome. I say bring out more of them.
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  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    farmallm wrote: »
    Well said, I love missions like this. Where your choice will reflect your course of action and outcome. I say bring out more of them.


    What would make it even more cool is if there were REAL repercussions for your choices in the game. Perhaps rewards or titles are different… perhaps you gain access to additional or alternative missions based upon the choices made in a previous mission.

    Let’s say you are a Starfleet Captain faced with a choice of letting an entire planet be wiped out by a natural disaster or intervening. The planet’s native spices is a pre-warp or primitive people, therefore the Prime Directive applies: we can not intervene. As a Captain, can you follow orders and just walk away as millions of lives are extinguished? Lives that YOU could have saved? Let’s say you do and are awarded the title “Heartless” or something… and have access to 3-4 additional missions that can only be accessed with this title, each with their own rewards, etc.

    Alternatively, you decide to “Kirk” it and save the planet. After you are hailed by Starfleet Command and admonished. You receive the title of “Loose Cannon” and, as a result, have available 3-4 missions linked to this particular title.

    This could come into play with the Section 31 missions as well, I would imagine…

    It would cause a player to think before acting and add to an element of story within the game.
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  • hfmuddhfmudd Member Posts: 881 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kain9prime wrote: »
    A Romulan would be thinking of striking back immediately. That's part of their psychology - react/lash out violently against their enemies. Feeling "helpless" is not something which would occur to them. It would be rage at loss of control, and immediate anger boiling into vengeance towards whoever is responsible for their predicament. Why do you think Vulcans almost destroyed their society? It's because they were quick to react passionately to anger. Romulans still retain this aspect of Vulcan psychology and how they view the universe around them.

    *snort*

    Rage, swear vengeance, call upon the Elements and the Names of your ancestors, whatever you like - my point was and is, you can't do jack about it until someone else does you the favor of cutting your puppet strings. That's what I meant by "helpless". Would you prefer "powerless" or "impotent"?
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  • originalspockoriginalspock Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    hfmudd wrote: »
    *snort*

    Rage, swear vengeance, call upon the Elements and the Names of your ancestors, whatever you like - my point was and is, you can't do jack about it until someone else does you the favor of cutting your puppet strings. That's what I meant by "helpless". Would you prefer "powerless" or "impotent"?

    Not trying to speak for Kain, but I am certain he was emphasizing the specifics of the approach to the mission. Which the narrative is clearly over some people's heads as they codemn fictional acts in fictional dreams in a fictional game environment, and yet people still find reasons to be offended by the absurd. The facts are, the story was written from a strictly Romulan point of view, and thus must be accepted as such. The stories are written with an expectation that the player is able to understand they are not in fact flying real space ships or using science fiction technology, just as they expected the player to understand the players choice in the morally ambiguous scenario highlighted in this thread.

    If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid. -Q
  • commanderkassycommanderkassy Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Those are combatants, who are engaged in a war against innocent people. The assault on Virinat proves conclusively that the Tal Shiar are tyrannical, fascist evil aligned with alien monsters who experiment on sentient humanoids. Since they won't listen to polite requests to knock it the hell off, they leave no choice but to be met with force to protect innocent lives.

    There is a HUGE difference between combat and murder. If a noncombatant is killed deliberately, it's a war crime. If sufficient precautions aren't taken to minimize noncombatant casualties, it's a war crime. Torture and execution of prisoners, you guessed it, war crime. Medical experimentation on prisoners is one of the worst war crimes imaginable and something only a few of the worst regimes in human history ever engaged in. It's a line that should never be crossed, and the game is trying to force my character to cross it.

    And yes it makes a difference. If you aren't going to immerse yourself in your character's story, why play story missions at all? Why have named characters, dialogue, or story in the first place? It's intended to be affecting, to be engaged with, that's what good storytelling is all about. It's story and characters that seperate an RPG from the likes of Space Invaders.

    And I am not cool with my character being forced into committing war crimes.

    Picard wasn't either. We still loved that story.

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  • hfmuddhfmudd Member Posts: 881 Arc User
    edited September 2014
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  • dpsloss88dpsloss88 Member Posts: 765 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    You are supposed to feel like you are being tortured. So the fact you want to quit the mission means it is working.

    I recall you could keep refusing to kill the person and eventually whatever selection you make you shoot them. I don't recall not having a choice, just that your trigger finger does not obey your choice.
  • darthlokidarthloki Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    dpsloss88 wrote: »
    You are supposed to feel like you are being tortured. So the fact you want to quit the mission means it is working.

    I recall you could keep refusing to kill the person and eventually whatever selection you make you shoot them. I don't recall not having a choice, just that your trigger finger does not obey your choice.

    so this right here, as you said you do not have a choice at all plus you are being tortured and you do not have a choice at all when u pull the trigger all of this mission shows that you are losing control
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    darthloki wrote: »
    so this right here, as you said you do not have a choice at all plus you are being tortured and you do not have a choice at all when u pull the trigger all of this mission shows that you are losing control
    Darthmeow is referring to a later part of the mission, when you're being forced to stick Borg implants into a prisoner. You can refuse to do so; you can try to kill the prisoner to save her from the implants; but ultimately, you will be forced, against your will, to turn her into a drone.

    Later, when your shackles have been broken, you'll be able to give her a fairly meaningful (IMO) death, as she distracts your captors while you gather info on Hakeev and escape...

    The point of the whole mission is similar to the point of what's-his-ridges, the gul who captured and tortured Picard, trying to get Picard to say he saw five lights. If you can break the prisoner's will, it's much easier to get them to talk (or to change sides). The Tal'Shiar want you to decide it's pointless to resist them; once you do that, they can get you to do just about anything. (See also the "one last inch" monologue in V For Vendetta, and Evie's subsequent decision.)
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  • darthlokidarthloki Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    Darthmeow is referring to a later part of the mission, when you're being forced to stick Borg implants into a prisoner. You can refuse to do so; you can try to kill the prisoner to save her from the implants; but ultimately, you will be forced, against your will, to turn her into a drone.

    Later, when your shackles have been broken, you'll be able to give her a fairly meaningful (IMO) death, as she distracts your captors while you gather info on Hakeev and escape...

    The point of the whole mission is similar to the point of what's-his-ridges, the gul who captured and tortured Picard, trying to get Picard to say he saw five lights. If you can break the prisoner's will, it's much easier to get them to talk (or to change sides). The Tal'Shiar want you to decide it's pointless to resist them; once you do that, they can get you to do just about anything. (See also the "one last inch" monologue in V For Vendetta, and Evie's subsequent decision.)

    I understand what op is trying to say but it is still the same you are losing control if you will, you are being tortured reprogramed into what the empress wants, through out this whole mission it is showing u have zero control sure you can resist but in the end losing the will to resist thanks to borg tech and whatever else is in you. It is showing that you are slipping to the point if it keeps going you won't resist, you won't try to save others etc
  • morchadesmorchades Member Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    What would make it even more cool is if there were REAL repercussions for your choices in the game. Perhaps rewards or titles are different… perhaps you gain access to additional or alternative missions based upon the choices made in a previous mission.

    Let’s say you are a Starfleet Captain faced with a choice of letting an entire planet be wiped out by a natural disaster or intervening. The planet’s native spices is a pre-warp or primitive people, therefore the Prime Directive applies: we can not intervene. As a Captain, can you follow orders and just walk away as millions of lives are extinguished? Lives that YOU could have saved? Let’s say you do and are awarded the title “Heartless” or something… and have access to 3-4 additional missions that can only be accessed with this title, each with their own rewards, etc.

    Alternatively, you decide to “Kirk” it and save the planet. After you are hailed by Starfleet Command and admonished. You receive the title of “Loose Cannon” and, as a result, have available 3-4 missions linked to this particular title.

    This could come into play with the Section 31 missions as well, I would imagine…

    It would cause a player to think before acting and add to an element of story within the game.

    That would be awesome.

    They don't seem willjng to invest in more missions not everyone can play, but it'd be interesting if these accolades could be used to offer a new dialogue or action choice in certain missions like Diplomacy does.
  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The pc that you implant changes gender randomly though. I've played mind games on two different characters. Once it was male, the other time, female.
  • johnniemesojohnniemeso Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    mikoto8472 wrote: »
    The pc that you implant changes gender randomly though. I've played mind games on two different characters. Once it was male, the other time, female.

    hmm interesting. for me the person implanted was Hiven, the weak free boff from the start mission. the person i was asked to kill was the reman free boff, the girl from crateris.

    at the time i played i did not really know how the boff system worked so i just used the free ones. though funnily enough i later ended up spacing Hiven when i got a sci boff with rom operative and will do the same to the reman boff when i find a replacment with RO.


    the storylines are a bit stupid and are constructed maybe with a strange view of how characters would react. but i think the story is prob meant as a backdrop to the pew pew

    it was obvious from a few seconds in that Zelle was an undine in divide et impera. why would someone go and break the Prime directive on such a flimsy pretext. so ridiculous, i would have just blasted her with my biomolecular pulswave

    SPOILER ALERTS below

    also that mission where you let obisek run away with WMD is kinda messed up and I'm like WTF? i would have just shot him instead of just standing around gossiping with that terrorist

    also the early ep where the madman slomek was like gonna blow up the whole planet and kill everyone rather than surrender to TS. anyone with a normal mind would have just shot him instead of letting him kill millions or billions in his madness. and we are supposed to be his friend later when we rescue the terrorist from a prison. WTF?

    though i think the main flaw to the rom storyline is that you are forced to go along with the loser d'tan and his plot to assimilate the romulans into the vulcan's commieland. not much better than being a borg drone imo.


    also the end of the rom rep is so funny and stupid. after you finish collecting a billion marks and helping build Mol'chernobyl, you nearly destroy it by discovering a iconian gateway
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    mikoto8472 wrote: »
    The pc that you implant changes gender randomly though. I've played mind games on two different characters. Once it was male, the other time, female.
    Sometimes it changes mid-mission too! :D
    hmm interesting. for me the person implanted was Hiven, the weak free boff from the start mission. the person i was asked to kill was the reman free boff, the girl from crateris.

    at the time i played i did not really know how the boff system worked so i just used the free ones. though funnily enough i later ended up spacing Hiven when i got a sci boff with rom operative and will do the same to the reman boff when i find a replacment with RO.
    I may not use them often but I keep them because they have unique outfit options.
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  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    quistra wrote: »
    This mission is supposed to make you uncomfortable.

    Am I a bad person that I don't even remember this mission? :D
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • corelogikcorelogik Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Am I a bad person that I don't even remember this mission? :D

    Not really. I barely remember it. It's one mission out of how many? In a video game. You do it, finish it and then move on forget it.

    Getting all upset over it like the OP,... seems a bit ridiculous to me. A video game scenario, even an arguably "heinous" one, is not on any level, the equivalent of going out kidnapping someone at random and torturing them, for the fun of it. OP's claims to the contrary.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I remember this mission quite clearly. It upset me. It made me angry. Not at the programmers - at Hakeev, for what he was putting Nniol through.

    It was frakking magnificent.

    And then on Brea III, when I got to plug that b*stard myself... glorious.
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  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    I remember this mission quite clearly. It upset me. It made me angry. Not at the programmers - at Hakeev, for what he was putting Nniol through.

    It was frakking magnificent.

    And then on Brea III, when I got to plug that b*stard myself... glorious.

    more fun... keep the melee weapon from coliseum. let your allies take on the adds and kill him with said melee weapon... it a shame the cut scene makes you shoot em. takes a little work but man is it nice.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Am I a bad person that I don't even remember this mission? :D

    you sir are a bad man! sorry had to :D
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    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    prierin wrote: »
    What would make it even more cool is if there were REAL repercussions for your choices in the game. Perhaps rewards or titles are different… perhaps you gain access to additional or alternative missions based upon the choices made in a previous mission.

    Let’s say you are a Starfleet Captain faced with a choice of letting an entire planet be wiped out by a natural disaster or intervening. The planet’s native spices is a pre-warp or primitive people, therefore the Prime Directive applies: we can not intervene. As a Captain, can you follow orders and just walk away as millions of lives are extinguished? Lives that YOU could have saved? Let’s say you do and are awarded the title “Heartless” or something… and have access to 3-4 additional missions that can only be accessed with this title, each with their own rewards, etc.

    Alternatively, you decide to “Kirk” it and save the planet. After you are hailed by Starfleet Command and admonished. You receive the title of “Loose Cannon” and, as a result, have available 3-4 missions linked to this particular title.

    This could come into play with the Section 31 missions as well, I would imagine…

    It would cause a player to think before acting and add to an element of story within the game.
    See, I disagree with that interpretation of the PD. I feel it results in false dilemmas and deluded captains who think they're idealists upholding some vaunted natural order, when what they really are is lazy holier-than-thou @ssholes. Every time you let an intelligent species die off when you could've done something, you're guilty of negligent genocide.

    The only stoppable natural disasters, as opposed to a self-inflicted disaster such as global warming, that would kill off an entire planet's population would be either an asteroid collision or a plague. The former is something Starfleet is completely capable of fixing without the locals being any the wiser -- short burst with the tractor beam, or a couple of torpedoes against the asteroid. All you need is a fraction of a degree of course change. At space distances, that's more than enough for a clean miss. So to hell the Prime Directive in that instance, it doesn't even apply.

    In the latter case? The trick, again, is minimal interference without letting them know you're there, just like if you're doing a deep-cover mission to see if a species is ready for first contact as Riker did in a TNG episode. Use Federation super-science to find the cure and then just nudge them in the right direction if they've got the tech. If they're not, the situation gets more complicated. I'd envision use of a genetically altered virus to spread a vaccine.

    But you do interfere, even if what it ultimately takes is beaming into the president's office and saying, "Hi, I'm Bob Jones and this drug will cure the epidemic. Bye now." *beams out* Because otherwise if you don't, you're a genocidal dickhead undeserving of the uniform.

    One of the few VOY episodes I really enjoyed was "Prime Factors" for pointing out the obvious, that being what it looks like when somebody else uses your own "we can't help you because we have high-minded ideals and such" logic against you.
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