I have never liked any applied V'Ger/Borg connection. The need to put humans at the center of everything is outdated. We are already the center of the Federation/Starfleet.
This said, the Borg do not have to have a homeworld. It only takes one crazy scientist on a spaceship or space station to start the Borg off. I imagine it began with an organic wanting to improve theirself by installing cybernetic implants and went from there. We even see some species like this outside the Borg, e.g. Bynars.
Well what could have happend... Let's look at the facts then:
Fact it that the Borg could/should have been insectoids... yet they ended up not being so.
Fact is That there has been no mention or indication that the two are related. V'ger "Ate" things and pooped out a "hologram" of it... The borg litterealy recycle things.
Fact is that we know that the Borg existed 500 years before Voyager was launched
Fact is that there has been no Prime-verse instance where a ship was tossed back through time, except for the artificially red-matter created one in a insane (and impossible) supernova.
V'Ger/Borg connection is imaginary thinking. Theres NOTHING indicating that the two are even remotely connected.
Why this discussion still goes on is beyond me.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
They existed for much, much longer than 500 years. Guinan clearly states in "Q, Who?" that the Borg had been developing for "thousands of centuries." The Borg were around while humans still lived in caves.
Well the only clearly stated number we have is from Dragons teeth... That's the reference I am using.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I have never liked any applied V'Ger/Borg connection. The need to put humans at the center of everything is outdated. We are already the center of the Federation/Starfleet.
This said, the Borg do not have to have a homeworld. It only takes one crazy scientist on a spaceship or space station to start the Borg off. I imagine it began with an organic wanting to improve theirself by installing cybernetic implants and went from there. We even see some species like this outside the Borg, e.g. Bynars.
Well thats basically the backstory for the Cybermen, its a failry common plot
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Then how did it get back to the future to be discovered by Kirk and crew? This whole V'Ger and the Borg thing is nonsense if you ask me. It ignores one of the fundamental precepts of the Borg (and many other things), which is the Borg ignore or destroy things which they deem inferior. Clearly Voyager 6 would have been an inferior piece of technology to them.
It didn't "Get back to the future" It just turned around and eventually came home.
Or you just call them weak because you can't refute them. Facts are facts. The Borg didn't create V'Ger. Canon bares this out.
Well yes and no. Had V'Ger come across the Borg it simply wouldn't of just upgraded the probe and sent it on it's merry, it would of assimilated it and V'Ger never would of returned to earth.
However there is a possibility of V'Ger creating the Borg, it's simply quite small.
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No, there isn't. V'Ger essentially scanned/destroyed everything it encountered. We've all seen it. Why would it all of a sudden act differently to create something instead of scanning/cataloging/destroying it? Answer: it wouldn't.
How would you explain the similarity between V'Ger and the Borg Unimatrix vessels in STO?
Only way to settle this, NASA has to just launch 4 more Voyager probes, then its just hurry up and wait. Good thing is that this time we know what's coming, so we just need to tell Decker to ask a few more questions before joining with Ve'Ger.
No, there isn't. V'Ger essentially scanned/destroyed everything it encountered. We've all seen it. Why would it all of a sudden act differently to create something instead of scanning/cataloging/destroying it? Answer: it wouldn't.
Hey I'm not arguing that. I'm just stating that in Star Trek Legacy, they did put out a plausible possibility.
I'm not arguing that it WOULD do that, just that it COULD. Just allow for the possibility and stop being so narrow minded.
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There have been a few books/fan fics that have explained an origin of V'ger and of the Borg. That doesn't make any of them true or more importantly, canon. Anything is possible. That doesn't mean it's true.
I never said it did. I just said the possibility exists that's all.
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How would you explain the similarity between V'Ger and the Borg Unimatrix vessels in STO?
Coincidence.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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Simple. Cryptic used creative license based on a (poor) assumption made in a non-canon source. I can come up with a story that says Andorians arose from a snail/frog hybrid. That doesn't make it true.
STO is not official canon.
Surprise... this thread is about STO.
The Borg-V'Ger connection is Non-Canon. Got it. Everyone knows.
I don't quite see the similarly. Could you link us the appearance of a the ship in TMP please?
You have to watch the Directors cut that was remastered recently. It actually looks exactly like a Unimatrix, cept it has more blue lights instead of green.
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You have to watch the Directors cut that was remastered recently. It actually looks exactly like a Unimatrix, cept it has more blue lights instead of green.
Ah, I dont have director's cut and the movie was sooooo long with those... scenes... special effect scenes... that I dont feel like... doing it... again
So, that being well established, in cannon. Time travel is completely possible. And current science even agrees that wormholes can connect through time. So, it is very well possible that Voyager 6 fell through a wormhole... back in time and across the galaxy. Saying this is impossible is like saying that Warp Drive is impossible.
That being said, there have been several Beta canon versions of the origin of the Borg and the connection to V'ger. The most prominent of which is Star Trek: Legacy. However, that game, timeline, story, etc, are the product of another company and are not canon, and not part of our current gameplay.
I am open to theories of how the Borg got started. There are several snarled hairs to work out with canon, such as the significance of the V'ger/Decker Joining, and the prehistory of the Borg. Since it is established that the Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant, this would be an excellent time to see this.
Personally, I would like to think that Voyager 6 fell through a wormhole, back in time, and somehow came in contact with a proto-Borg. These Borg assimilated it, and the two joined. V'ger was born. V'ger then left to complete it's mission and the Borg left to do their mission.
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and this TRIBBLE above proves the point, you need a hard canon source to prove the point. you dont have that, it will always be questionable.
Another problem with Hard canon, is the fact that it was contradicted so many times it's not even funny.
EX: Warp power is harmful to the universe. Basically ignored about 5 episodes later. Just put in because Star Trek wanted to put out about fuel emissions being harmful to the Earth.
Sorry hard canon in star trek, is probably the biggest joke of all.
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Comments
Eh... it just existed long enough?
Each and every second, we are traveling into the future.
This said, the Borg do not have to have a homeworld. It only takes one crazy scientist on a spaceship or space station to start the Borg off. I imagine it began with an organic wanting to improve theirself by installing cybernetic implants and went from there. We even see some species like this outside the Borg, e.g. Bynars.
V'Ger/Borg connection is imaginary thinking. Theres NOTHING indicating that the two are even remotely connected.
Why this discussion still goes on is beyond me.
I am not a fierce protector of the V'Ger-Borg theory, but your counter arguments are just weak.
Well the only clearly stated number we have is from Dragons teeth... That's the reference I am using.
Well thats basically the backstory for the Cybermen, its a failry common plot
Well yes and no. Had V'Ger come across the Borg it simply wouldn't of just upgraded the probe and sent it on it's merry, it would of assimilated it and V'Ger never would of returned to earth.
However there is a possibility of V'Ger creating the Borg, it's simply quite small.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
How would you explain the similarity between V'Ger and the Borg Unimatrix vessels in STO?
Hey I'm not arguing that. I'm just stating that in Star Trek Legacy, they did put out a plausible possibility.
I'm not arguing that it WOULD do that, just that it COULD. Just allow for the possibility and stop being so narrow minded.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I never said it did. I just said the possibility exists that's all.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Coincidence.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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I don't quite see the similarly. Could you link us the appearance of a the ship in TMP please?
Surprise... this thread is about STO.
The Borg-V'Ger connection is Non-Canon. Got it. Everyone knows.
And it is just not the point.
You have to watch the Directors cut that was remastered recently. It actually looks exactly like a Unimatrix, cept it has more blue lights instead of green.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Ah, I dont have director's cut and the movie was sooooo long with those... scenes... special effect scenes... that I dont feel like... doing it... again
that is... um... too similar to be coincidence...
the designers just TRIBBLE with us?
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Except.. you know, there is an entire anthology of time travel episodes
Plus the entire plot of The Voyage Home
Several time the Enterprise has Traveled back in time, both By external factors and accidentally, As a mean of escape...
That is just in TOS.
So, that being well established, in cannon. Time travel is completely possible. And current science even agrees that wormholes can connect through time. So, it is very well possible that Voyager 6 fell through a wormhole... back in time and across the galaxy. Saying this is impossible is like saying that Warp Drive is impossible.
That being said, there have been several Beta canon versions of the origin of the Borg and the connection to V'ger. The most prominent of which is Star Trek: Legacy. However, that game, timeline, story, etc, are the product of another company and are not canon, and not part of our current gameplay.
I am open to theories of how the Borg got started. There are several snarled hairs to work out with canon, such as the significance of the V'ger/Decker Joining, and the prehistory of the Borg. Since it is established that the Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant, this would be an excellent time to see this.
Personally, I would like to think that Voyager 6 fell through a wormhole, back in time, and somehow came in contact with a proto-Borg. These Borg assimilated it, and the two joined. V'ger was born. V'ger then left to complete it's mission and the Borg left to do their mission.
Another problem with Hard canon, is the fact that it was contradicted so many times it's not even funny.
EX: Warp power is harmful to the universe. Basically ignored about 5 episodes later. Just put in because Star Trek wanted to put out about fuel emissions being harmful to the Earth.
Sorry hard canon in star trek, is probably the biggest joke of all.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1