dstahl always wanted V'ger in the game, and there was always the speculation that there might be a link between V'ger and the Borg (from Gene Roddenberry himself - but he seemed to really be throwing out creative ideas, without making it a fact). And so, the B'Gers made it in game, basically.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The Borg are a failed military experiment. Its the easiest explanation and doesnt need much fantasy-stuff to happen.
Though thats a similar concept to Stargates Replicators, though the Milky Way ones were Toys, however, the Atlantis-one were a military experiment, which ultimately thanks to some meddling went wrong.
Star Trek Legacy implied that the Voyager 6 Probe, "V'Ger" was part of the Borg progeny. However, V'Ger's goal was to learn EVERYTHING, and then return to its "Creator", where the Borg would never have had such a biblical view of humanity, or such a scientifically pure goal. It's theoretically possible that the goals of the Borg changed at some point from developing as its own species to just annexing all the other ones, but it's unlikely that this would happen in the span of 80 years.
It is in no way canon, of course, since only the films and movies are part of the official lore for the franchise, and frankly... Star Trek Legacy was a TERRIBLE game (really glaring modelling inaccuracies, boring dialogue, clumsy controls and an auto-lock-on feature that actually randomly disconnects from your targets? Thanks for restoring my faith in Star Trek there, Bethesda.)
I am keen to believe there is NO connection between V'Ger and the Borg. Given the number of races seen in Star Trek, it has to be more plausible that the galaxy has more than one species calling it home that jack themselves and their society up with machines - hopefully with a different set of morals.
Star Trek Legacy implied that the Voyager 6 Probe, "V'Ger" was part of the Borg progeny. However, V'Ger's goal was to learn EVERYTHING, and then return to its "Creator", where the Borg would never have had such a biblical view of humanity, or such a scientifically pure goal. It's theoretically possible that the goals of the Borg changed at some point from developing as its own species to just annexing all the other ones, but it's unlikely that this would happen in the span of 80 years.
It is in no way canon, of course, since only the films and movies are part of the official lore for the franchise, and frankly... Star Trek Legacy was a TERRIBLE game (really glaring modelling inaccuracies, boring dialogue, clumsy controls and an auto-lock-on feature that actually randomly disconnects from your targets? Thanks for restoring my faith in Star Trek there, Bethesda.)
I am keen to believe there is NO connection between V'Ger and the Borg. Given the number of races seen in Star Trek, it has to be more plausible that the galaxy has more than one species calling it home that jack themselves and their society up with machines - hopefully with a different set of morals.
Still the concept of V'Ger ship and the Borg unimatrix look too similar to be coincidence don't ya think?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Still the concept of V'Ger ship and the Borg unimatrix look too similar to be coincidence don't ya think?
Convergent evolution, anyone?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Sorry tad too much to be coincidence for me. However, I don't think V'ger was borg spawn or the other way around(though it's a nice theory).
Personally I think the most logical explanation V'Ger came upon a unimatrix absorbed it, then deduced it was the most logical and convenient way to continue on.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Star Trek Legacy implied that the Voyager 6 Probe, "V'Ger" was part of the Borg progeny. However, V'Ger's goal was to learn EVERYTHING, and then return to its "Creator", where the Borg would never have had such a biblical view of humanity, or such a scientifically pure goal. It's theoretically possible that the goals of the Borg changed at some point from developing as its own species to just annexing all the other ones, but it's unlikely that this would happen in the span of 80 years.
It appears you have not hear the who story the queen is in charge of the collective and he has his one gold.
It appears you have not hear the who story the queen is in charge of the collective and he has his one gold.
... What?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
How would you explain the similarity between V'Ger and the Borg Unimatrix vessels in STO?
Quite simple. DStahl happened. He was a known fan of V'Ger, even had an Avatar of it. I can still remember people having discussions with him about the connection between V'Ger and the Borg. About the possibility of V'Ger showing up again.
With that said. the Unimattrix Borg Capital Ships only have vague similarities to V'Ger but nothing else. V'Ger was much larger and contained a lot more exterior components than seen on the Unimattrix Ships. The only resemblance to V'Ger is the cylinder like shaped hull and the four protruding spikes.
As for the soft-canon connections between the two. In my personal opinion its lazy story telling. The writers obviously had an affinity for V'Ger and did the least amount of work to connect the two.
The Borg are more than likely products of a humanoid civilization with a fixation on perfecting themselves, their technology and adapting alien technology to serve their needs. At some point this got out of control. And thus the Borg were created.
Its kind of mind boggling how many Trek Fans cling to this idea that humans inadvertantly created their own worst enemies. But the reality is. The Borg are enemies of everyone...not just Humans and the Federation. This whole V'Ger/Borg theory is the same as the Sun revolving around the Earth. Humans seeking to make something all about themselves. Even when its unnecessary. Since the Trek Franchise is already all about ourselves.
Its kind of mind boggling how many Trek Fans cling to this idea that humans inadvertantly created their own worst enemies. But the reality is. The Borg are enemies of everyone...not just Humans and the Federation. This whole V'Ger/Borg theory is the same as the Sun revolving around the Earth. Humans seeking to make something all about themselves. Even when its unnecessary. Since the Trek Franchise is already all about ourselves.
You know what?
That is a very compelling argument.
I actually even dislike the Voth a bit just for hailing from earth... why not prehistoric Andorian animals from the DQ? Why wasn't a Vulcan space probe modified by machine people?
The Borg were a race like our own, they are an example of what we ourselves could become. We are rapidly approaching the time when the objective difference between a human and Borg is on a software level, not a hardware level.
If you want to play around with soft canon that's ok. If you want to disregard anything that was never seen on TV or the Big Screen, that's ok too.
From the TNG Relaunch novels:
I liked the idea of the Caelar and how the Borg eventually came into being (damn MACOs). It does have that sort of 'human touch'. I hated the resolution, and now the Borg suddenly just don't exist anymore.
Cold Equations I also liked, and 'The Body Electric' features the return of the 'V'Ger' machine race, up to it's usual tricks of systematically cataloging and destroying pretty much everything.
I don't buy the V'Ger - Borg connection because their motives are inherently different. The Borg seek perfection (ugh, Voyager writers ), while V'Ger sought only to accumulate data and return it to the creator (humans/NASA).
If the Borg ever happened to come upon the fictional Voyager space probe, they'd likely just disregard it as primitive and irrelevant. Possibly consume it for raw materials.
If you want to play around with soft canon that's ok. If you want to disregard anything that was never seen on TV or the Big Screen, that's ok too.
From the TNG Relaunch novels:
I liked the idea of the Caelar and how the Borg eventually came into being (damn MACOs). It does have that sort of 'human touch'. I hated the resolution, and now the Borg suddenly just don't exist anymore.
Cold Equations I also liked, and 'The Body Electric' features the return of the 'V'Ger' machine race, up to it's usual tricks of systematically cataloging and destroying pretty much everything.
I don't buy the V'Ger - Borg connection because their motives are inherently different. The Borg seek perfection (ugh, Voyager writers ), while V'Ger sought only to accumulate data and return it to the creator (humans/NASA).
If the Borg ever happened to come upon the fictional Voyager space probe, they'd likely just disregard it as primitive and irrelevant. Possibly consume it for raw materials.
They'd analyze it to determine the source and then send a cube to assimilate it's creators(remember Voyager has that plaque with a crude representation of Earth's location).
I speculate that the Borg started as an outcast society, who believed cybernetics and technology was the only way to evolve or develop. Their appearance and conduct is more than enough for a peaple to shun them.
Unimatrix 01seemed more like a hidden starbase to me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
The Borg assimilated a bunch of humans.
Then they found recordings on V'Ger and seeing something potentially closer to perfection than they were the Borg are now trying to immitate the pure masterpiece.
And while the emerging young races of the Milky Way venture out to gather more information and explore strange new worlds as well as to fight each other in a far away galaxy entire sectors get torn apart, stars are used as the centerpiece of mobile outposts and battlestations and supernova are the norm while two giants fight to their uttermost capability.
One a sentient machine race that only once had indirect contact with these younglings threw one of their exploration probes. Sending it back in the hopes of giving them some code upwards to create an insurrection in their enemys backyard.
The other simply remembered threw storys when they used the Milky Way Galaxy to fuel their warmachine while having reappeared only a short time ago to troll some of these lesser species. And maybe see if they can reestablish their presence to fuel this seemingly neverending war.
Well if it wanted to assimilate knowledge why did it V'ger just go about destroying everything?
Plus the video shows the Dominion fighting the Borg...when did the Borg ever come across the Dominion?
That video just screams non canon...
Yeah, that never happened. Non-canon material is non-canon.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Is it bad that I know nothing about the origins of the Borg? Or their home world, for that matter. I saw 'the heart of Borg space' once, in Voyager; but it was by no means clear to me that was supposed to be their home world.
I'd like to know why people are so adamant that "V'ger created the Borg". Just because a badly designed game said so? (Star Trek Legacy) Or because another badly designed game used the concept art of V'ger to create a non-canon Borg Command Ship? (Star Trek Online)
In canon, it's been established that the Borg are AT LEAST 900 years old at the time of Star Trek Voyager's 6th season (which was in 2376), specifically the episode called 'Dragon's Teeth'. The Voyager 6 probe (thou non-existent in real life), was supposedly launched from Earth sometime in the 1970s, and fell into "what used to be called a black hole". Knowing science today, a black hole would effectively rip the entire probe to shreds. There would be no probe to "emerge on the other side of the galaxy", and encounter a race of "machine people".
If you want to believe V'ger had some connection to the Borg, then I'd say that the "Borg created V'ger". The Borg of the 1970s would have no knowledge of Earth, no interest in assimilating Earth or it's technology. They may on the other hand be interested in assimilating knowledge about the various species, including finding the creator of the V'ger probe. Voyager 6's mission statement specifically said it was designed to "learn all that is learn-able", which rings quite close to how the Borg operate.
TL;DR: If there is a connection between the two, the Borg created V'ger. Not the other way around.
Comments
dstahl always wanted V'ger in the game, and there was always the speculation that there might be a link between V'ger and the Borg (from Gene Roddenberry himself - but he seemed to really be throwing out creative ideas, without making it a fact). And so, the B'Gers made it in game, basically.
Though thats a similar concept to Stargates Replicators, though the Milky Way ones were Toys, however, the Atlantis-one were a military experiment, which ultimately thanks to some meddling went wrong.
It is in no way canon, of course, since only the films and movies are part of the official lore for the franchise, and frankly... Star Trek Legacy was a TERRIBLE game (really glaring modelling inaccuracies, boring dialogue, clumsy controls and an auto-lock-on feature that actually randomly disconnects from your targets? Thanks for restoring my faith in Star Trek there, Bethesda.)
I am keen to believe there is NO connection between V'Ger and the Borg. Given the number of races seen in Star Trek, it has to be more plausible that the galaxy has more than one species calling it home that jack themselves and their society up with machines - hopefully with a different set of morals.
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Still the concept of V'Ger ship and the Borg unimatrix look too similar to be coincidence don't ya think?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Convergent evolution, anyone?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Sorry tad too much to be coincidence for me. However, I don't think V'ger was borg spawn or the other way around(though it's a nice theory).
Personally I think the most logical explanation V'Ger came upon a unimatrix absorbed it, then deduced it was the most logical and convenient way to continue on.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Similarities on that level are, in fiction, seldom cases of convergent evolution but bad writing.
It appears you have not hear the who story the queen is in charge of the collective and he has his one gold.
... What?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Quite simple. DStahl happened. He was a known fan of V'Ger, even had an Avatar of it. I can still remember people having discussions with him about the connection between V'Ger and the Borg. About the possibility of V'Ger showing up again.
With that said. the Unimattrix Borg Capital Ships only have vague similarities to V'Ger but nothing else. V'Ger was much larger and contained a lot more exterior components than seen on the Unimattrix Ships. The only resemblance to V'Ger is the cylinder like shaped hull and the four protruding spikes.
As for the soft-canon connections between the two. In my personal opinion its lazy story telling. The writers obviously had an affinity for V'Ger and did the least amount of work to connect the two.
The Borg are more than likely products of a humanoid civilization with a fixation on perfecting themselves, their technology and adapting alien technology to serve their needs. At some point this got out of control. And thus the Borg were created.
Its kind of mind boggling how many Trek Fans cling to this idea that humans inadvertantly created their own worst enemies. But the reality is. The Borg are enemies of everyone...not just Humans and the Federation. This whole V'Ger/Borg theory is the same as the Sun revolving around the Earth. Humans seeking to make something all about themselves. Even when its unnecessary. Since the Trek Franchise is already all about ourselves.
You know what?
That is a very compelling argument.
I actually even dislike the Voth a bit just for hailing from earth... why not prehistoric Andorian animals from the DQ? Why wasn't a Vulcan space probe modified by machine people?
Federation... homo sapiens club.
watch the video
What video?
In a sense, the Borg homeworld is Earth.
From the TNG Relaunch novels:
I liked the idea of the Caelar and how the Borg eventually came into being (damn MACOs). It does have that sort of 'human touch'. I hated the resolution, and now the Borg suddenly just don't exist anymore.
Cold Equations I also liked, and 'The Body Electric' features the return of the 'V'Ger' machine race, up to it's usual tricks of systematically cataloging and destroying pretty much everything.
I don't buy the V'Ger - Borg connection because their motives are inherently different. The Borg seek perfection (ugh, Voyager writers
If the Borg ever happened to come upon the fictional Voyager space probe, they'd likely just disregard it as primitive and irrelevant. Possibly consume it for raw materials.
My character Tsin'xing
Unimatrix 01seemed more like a hidden starbase to me.
I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
Then they found recordings on V'Ger and seeing something potentially closer to perfection than they were the Borg are now trying to immitate the pure masterpiece.
And while the emerging young races of the Milky Way venture out to gather more information and explore strange new worlds as well as to fight each other in a far away galaxy entire sectors get torn apart, stars are used as the centerpiece of mobile outposts and battlestations and supernova are the norm while two giants fight to their uttermost capability.
One a sentient machine race that only once had indirect contact with these younglings threw one of their exploration probes. Sending it back in the hopes of giving them some code upwards to create an insurrection in their enemys backyard.
The other simply remembered threw storys when they used the Milky Way Galaxy to fuel their warmachine while having reappeared only a short time ago to troll some of these lesser species. And maybe see if they can reestablish their presence to fuel this seemingly neverending war.
*nods*
This video is cute lol
Well if it wanted to assimilate knowledge why did it V'ger just go about destroying everything?
Plus the video shows the Dominion fighting the Borg...when did the Borg ever come across the Dominion?
That video just screams non canon...
Yeah, that never happened. Non-canon material is non-canon.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Kinda my point...tis non-canon so I don't see why this thread exists...
In canon, it's been established that the Borg are AT LEAST 900 years old at the time of Star Trek Voyager's 6th season (which was in 2376), specifically the episode called 'Dragon's Teeth'. The Voyager 6 probe (thou non-existent in real life), was supposedly launched from Earth sometime in the 1970s, and fell into "what used to be called a black hole". Knowing science today, a black hole would effectively rip the entire probe to shreds. There would be no probe to "emerge on the other side of the galaxy", and encounter a race of "machine people".
If you want to believe V'ger had some connection to the Borg, then I'd say that the "Borg created V'ger". The Borg of the 1970s would have no knowledge of Earth, no interest in assimilating Earth or it's technology. They may on the other hand be interested in assimilating knowledge about the various species, including finding the creator of the V'ger probe. Voyager 6's mission statement specifically said it was designed to "learn all that is learn-able", which rings quite close to how the Borg operate.
TL;DR: If there is a connection between the two, the Borg created V'ger. Not the other way around.