I could restate the argument here as to why this is a very bad idea from both a testing and the obvious side that F2P doesn't necessarily mean they haven't paid money towards the game but I know it'll fall on either biased or death ears.
I just wish Cryptic would say why they do something instead of just being rude to the rest of the player base, because testing should be done by people who have a genuine interest in fixing the game, and gold status doesn't mean anything in that regard (hell, gold doesn't make you pro at the game, seen that proved over and over again...).
Testing should be done by people who are very good at the game with a good understanding on how to test properly and can also keep the balance issues in mind so it is relevant for the majority of players so it isn't released broken like most of Cryptics badly tested additions.
Again, would be nice to have a reason for a change.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
the best way to do that would be to reward dedicated tribble players with access to that instead of only giving it to people who paid money.
most of them likely don't even care for beta testing, or care only enough to see what's new and then quit, and limiting the beta testing period only to them will result in another disaster like new romulus, which will probably drive some people away, or at least make them stop paying.
then again, cryptic has a history of ignoring bug reports and pushing buggy content to live servers anyway as previous seasons showed, so i doubt that'd help much. lol.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
I agree it shouldn't be based on money, I just didn't want that argument flaring up like last time. I honestly think it should be done on merit, because I usually raise around 15-20 bugs when I test any given season by either bringing them up here or submitting bug reports, and sometimes I re-send them after the event so I know they're in the system.
Having said that there are still a load from previous seasons they never even acknowledged let alone addressed so I think they need to have a big culture change and start treating us like co-workers interested in the proper development of the game instead of giving us the service we get now in terms of lack of to and throe communication and discussion about issues.
But it would help to cut out the rabble that don't do anything, I'd love to see that happen.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
they would need to be able to identify them first. if it happened on their forums, it'd be possible, but anywhere else, especially anonymous places and unless the leaker is an idiot and gives their name away in leaked shots, there's no way to tell who was it.
they'd have to either punish the entire gold/lts population, risking heavy money losses in the future, or just ignore it since it's not like letting free players know what's in and what state is it in now will hurt them in any way.
hell, it might actually generate more hype and interest that way, and even sell some extra gold access accounts for those who heard enough and want in to the point they'll buy gold sub, even if for only 1/2 months.
they have databases, then all they need to do is compare with who and what, ip address, physical mac address on the pc and other details that the server would need and compare it with logged ip address on the forum, on top of that is when people linked their cryptic account to PWE's and anyone who registered afterwards so all that stuff is accounted for.
your also making a mountain out of nothing. if someone does something that depends on them and the team as to how to appropriately respond, if it includes gold or lts sub, again thats upto them. ive seen some of your comments and your jumping to too many conclusions a little too often.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
they have databases, then all they need to do is compare with who and what, ip address, physical mac address on the pc and other details that the server would need and compare it with logged ip address on the forum, on top of that is when people linked their cryptic account to PWE's and anyone who registered afterwards so all that stuff is accounted for.
but all those databases, ips and mac addresses amount to nothing when all they'll have is
anonymous posted on 01/23/4567 ip - private
here's what's new on tribble
<screenshots>
info dump
as i said, that would only work on this forum, but here they delete such info. if the info is posted anywhere else, they have no control over it. the most they could do is request a moderator to delete such post, but that usually takes a few hours since the places are community ran and moderators are people who have lives, and even if the moderator does it, they'd have to request it every other hour when other people repost it.
that's why it's pointless trying to damage control it, and instead of trying to be all secretive and punishing people they should embrace the ferengi way and exploit that for fame and profit.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
the best way to do that would be to reward dedicated tribble players with access to that instead of only giving it to people who paid money.
most of them likely don't even care for beta testing, or care only enough to see what's new and then quit, and limiting the beta testing period only to them will result in another disaster like new romulus, which will probably drive some people away, or at least make them stop paying.
then again, cryptic has a history of ignoring bug reports and pushing buggy content to live servers anyway as previous seasons showed, so i doubt that'd help much. lol.
Man this so hard. I've purchaed Zen before because you can purchase Zen through Steam. I don't have Paypal / Credit so I can't buy Gold let alone LTS status. It's Cryptic's fault they're alienating people. Hell I spent $100 on Dota2 and CSGO this summer and I really don't even like Dota2 or CSGO.
I have tested and submitted bugs before, because that's what I like to do. I've dedicated time on Tribble actually doing stuff in previous seasons having multiple Tribble rewards as a silver player. I'm also probably one of the oldest silver players having started back in March of 2012.
Not to mention the fact that atm I have 7 Lv 50 characters, where I doubt that your average Lts or Gold member has fewer than that.
but all those databases, ips and mac addresses amount to nothing when all they'll have is
as i said, that would only work on this forum, but here they delete such info. if the info is posted anywhere else, they have no control over it. the most they could do is request a moderator to delete such post, but that usually takes a few hours since the places are community ran and moderators are people who have lives, and even if the moderator does it, they'd have to request it every other hour when other people repost it.
that's why it's pointless trying to damage control it, and instead of trying to be all secretive and punishing people they should embrace the ferengi way and exploit that for fame and profit.
im not going into that trap along the the lines of moderation and neither should you either. i guess thats ended this discussion.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
i guess, i was getting tired of it anyway. for the record, i was talking of places like 4chan's, sa's and the likes, not this forum's.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
all they are doing is gating the access in the easiest way possible.. while i agree that
just being a gold or lts player doesnt automatically make a great tester, the same can
be said of f2p players who spend all thier time logged into game. and as they have
stated, pre-live patches will be going onto redshirt, im guessing this is where they will
be doing the volume stress testing pre-release. we really dont know how they are
going to play this out, and you can be pretty sure if they arnt getting the data they
require from this gating they will implement something else.
So Cryptic complains they don't get enough constructive feedback so...
Reduce the number of people available to give feedback.
Genius :rolleyes: :mad:
Why not have more people available to catch the bugs early rather than a few days before the release eh?
I know what you mean. I for one have professional QA Testing experience in the industry, and I was willing to use my skills and experience to test the latest Tribble patches for Delta Rising. And now I cannot because of the restriction to "Gold Members".
What I don't fully understand is why the Delta Rising stuff was pushed to Tribble instead of Redshirt. If they're physically identical shards, then isn't it more logical to place it on Redshirt so if people want to test DR, then they can download the new stuff. As a regular Tribble player, downloading an entirely new test game to my computer when I don't particularly feel inclined to jump on first peek Delta Rising is troublesome.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
they assume once expansion stuff is up on tribble, almost nobody will want to visit the bugfix only server, so it's fine to move it to the weaker server hardware that can't handle many players, which is redshirt.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
What I don't fully understand is why the Delta Rising stuff was pushed to Tribble instead of Redshirt. If they're physically identical shards, then isn't it more logical to place it on Redshirt so if people want to test DR, then they can download the new stuff. As a regular Tribble player, downloading an entirely new test game to my computer when I don't particularly feel inclined to jump on first peek Delta Rising is troublesome.
Redshirt does differ a liitle from the version of the game on Tribble. No access to cstore, or
any of the free to test items or systems, not sure wether that makes much of a difference,
but thought it worth noting, as it may not be the only thing thats exlcuded from the build or
options set.
First of all, you're not missing anything because only the background code has been added, no real physical content unless you count the canon Voyager skin and the level increase.
All you can do is play existing content to try to level to 60, but it's not as easy as any of you are thinking (try about 36,000 skill points to go from 50 to 51)
Secondly the reason they have decided to go gold only is to prevent everyone from rushing the server at once if they see something in the patch notes. Tribble can't take the same level of load holodeck can, and red shirt is even worse off.
If anyone remembers, they went and gave everyone, reguradless if you tested or not, a Nukara Tribble because so many people wanted to test LOR open beta that it reaked havoc with the server.
They can't get feedback if no one can get on.
You think this idea is new? It happens all the time. If Disney is about to open a new attraction, they limit acess to only guest with annual passes. And on super high traffic days, they only allow resort guests, people staying at thier own hotels, to get into a certain park if not all of them.
Give you guys a personal example.
Because my grandmother's birthday is December 26th, we've never been able to go somewhere for Christmas, but my father wanted to go down to Disney World at least once during the holidays (he loved it down there so much, if he hadn't passed away from cancer a few years ago, we'd probibly be living down there now. Every summer it was not so much "if" so much as "when and how")
So he gets his wish in 2002, and we pack up on 12/27 and drive down. On New Year's Eve day, my sister and I are wandering around Epcot, when we decide to head over to the magic kingdom. We go outside and there is a massive crowd at the bottom of the ramp to the Monorail station. I squeeze my way to front and ask what's the matter. The lady tells me Magic Kingdom is reaching capacity, so only resort guests are being allowed in. I show her my room key and she steps a side. I then reach into the crowd, pull my sister out and we head up a basicly empty ramp and empty station.
I had acess to that park that day because I was a "gold" member. Actually I was gold three times over. I was staying at one of thier resorts, I had an annual pass and we are Disney Vacation Club members, which means other than an account maintainece fee, I basicly can get between a week and two weeks down (depending on where I go and what kind if room I get) there for free every year till sometime around 2050.
Someone staying on International Drive with a 5 day ticket is not going to get the same benefits.
And later, the next summer, I rode Mission:SPACE 20 times before it even actually opened officially because of the annual passes we kept buying (go in august one year and buy the pases, go July the next, two trips for one)
So this whole "gold gets first crack" is not new.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Unless I can always test, especially when it's needed most, forget it. Why should I ever feel an incentive as a non-subscriber (Doesn't mean haven't been spending money) that whenever big changes come and it's most crucial, I'm not allowed to do so at all? These lockouts like in the past have destroyed my incentive to ever bother at all anymore and have made tribble nothing but a "try before you buy/unpack that lock box ship" server rather than using it for it's original purpose to find bugs and errors.
And to think some people get paid for quality assurance as a job, and now it's the opposite. I know other games have done it, but doesn't make it right. And there are better more fair ways to regulate the amount of testers on the server.
Okay. I'm not a Lifer or a Gold sub, but I know I've spent enough on c-store purchases to be a lifer twice over. I'm also not making a real big complaint, but could you guys have at least put in the patch notes that only certain people have access first? I, along with a bunch of others are F2P who enjoy doing the testing of unfinished dlc/games/extra content.
Now for my big questions:
1. Are the F2P people going to get a date when they can test out the X2 stuff on tribble?
2. Is there finally going to be 8472 and Delta Rising rep testers boxes on Drozona Station with all the other boxes?
3. And Are Tribble testers going to get acces to ALL the ships to test and play including the c-store and Lobi ships?
I'm also not making a real big complaint, but could you guys have at least put in the patch notes that only certain people have access first
That's why this thread exists, it was started by Coldsnaped to specificly tell us that fact.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
from a business perspective, paying members provide a solid, quantifiable, financial
platform of stability on which to operate. its a monthly figure they can, with a
reasonable level of certainly, expect to recieve.
in STO, while f2p players may spend lots of money in game, it should also be noted
that, so do many gold and lts players, the big difference here is that gold and lts
players have made an, accountable, commitment to the game, providing this stable
platform that allows us to have, pretty much, the best f2p model on the market.
there isnt a single business out there that will offer the same level of service, or
access, to visiting customers, that it does to its paying members. any expectation
that it should be anything different is just crazy talk. you should be beaten about
the ears with a large tribble toy and made to wear some kind of sign to warn us
about your delusional expectations.
so for those with the crazy talk.. here's a tissue, dry your eyes and wait to see what
will happen in the coming weeks. remember, the forums are forever, the louder you
whine now, the dafter you'll look later.
Now for my big questions:
1. Are the F2P people going to get a date when they can test out the X2 stuff on tribble?
2. Is there finally going to be 8472 and Delta Rising rep testers boxes on Drozona Station with all the other boxes?
3. And Are Tribble testers going to get acces to ALL the ships to test and play including the c-store and Lobi ships?
Now for my big questions:
1. Are the F2P people going to get a date when they can test out the X2 stuff on tribble?
2. Is there finally going to be 8472 and Delta Rising rep testers boxes on Drozona Station with all the other boxes?
3. And Are Tribble testers going to get acces to ALL the ships to test and play including the c-store and Lobi ships?
Unfortunately, at least the last 2 releases, they've made the players grind. The last two rep sets had bugs go into Holodeck related to the set bonuses because the mark grind was forced in order to get the gear that needed testing.
For once I thought they'd actually consider players who dedicate their time to the game rather than people who pay them $15/mo or $200.
I thought wrong.
Yes, amazing that a for profit company wants to allow those that directly/consistently provide them with said profit the first chance to test new content should those that do so want to test.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
You have got to be serious. i waited for this... isn't this a F2P game?
Aside from the fact you've waited for nothing since nothing has been really added yet of any substance (just a few bug fixes and the level cap increase), the acess rules of Holodeck do not apply on Tribble.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
now if only that special treatment was holodeck related and active all year round, such as increased dil refining hard limit or free extra doff mission/doff list/active doff slots.
you know, the place where everyone and their grandma plays, rather than tribble that's used or cared about by a fraction of subbers.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Comments
I just wish Cryptic would say why they do something instead of just being rude to the rest of the player base, because testing should be done by people who have a genuine interest in fixing the game, and gold status doesn't mean anything in that regard (hell, gold doesn't make you pro at the game, seen that proved over and over again...).
Testing should be done by people who are very good at the game with a good understanding on how to test properly and can also keep the balance issues in mind so it is relevant for the majority of players so it isn't released broken like most of Cryptics badly tested additions.
Again, would be nice to have a reason for a change.
most of them likely don't even care for beta testing, or care only enough to see what's new and then quit, and limiting the beta testing period only to them will result in another disaster like new romulus, which will probably drive some people away, or at least make them stop paying.
then again, cryptic has a history of ignoring bug reports and pushing buggy content to live servers anyway as previous seasons showed, so i doubt that'd help much. lol.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Having said that there are still a load from previous seasons they never even acknowledged let alone addressed so I think they need to have a big culture change and start treating us like co-workers interested in the proper development of the game instead of giving us the service we get now in terms of lack of to and throe communication and discussion about issues.
But it would help to cut out the rabble that don't do anything, I'd love to see that happen.
they have databases, then all they need to do is compare with who and what, ip address, physical mac address on the pc and other details that the server would need and compare it with logged ip address on the forum, on top of that is when people linked their cryptic account to PWE's and anyone who registered afterwards so all that stuff is accounted for.
your also making a mountain out of nothing. if someone does something that depends on them and the team as to how to appropriately respond, if it includes gold or lts sub, again thats upto them. ive seen some of your comments and your jumping to too many conclusions a little too often.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
quite a risk playing it that way, i hope it all works out on the storyline.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
that's why it's pointless trying to damage control it, and instead of trying to be all secretive and punishing people they should embrace the ferengi way and exploit that for fame and profit.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Man this so hard. I've purchaed Zen before because you can purchase Zen through Steam. I don't have Paypal / Credit so I can't buy Gold let alone LTS status. It's Cryptic's fault they're alienating people. Hell I spent $100 on Dota2 and CSGO this summer and I really don't even like Dota2 or CSGO.
I have tested and submitted bugs before, because that's what I like to do. I've dedicated time on Tribble actually doing stuff in previous seasons having multiple Tribble rewards as a silver player. I'm also probably one of the oldest silver players having started back in March of 2012.
Not to mention the fact that atm I have 7 Lv 50 characters, where I doubt that your average Lts or Gold member has fewer than that.
im not going into that trap along the the lines of moderation and neither should you either. i guess thats ended this discussion.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
just being a gold or lts player doesnt automatically make a great tester, the same can
be said of f2p players who spend all thier time logged into game. and as they have
stated, pre-live patches will be going onto redshirt, im guessing this is where they will
be doing the volume stress testing pre-release. we really dont know how they are
going to play this out, and you can be pretty sure if they arnt getting the data they
require from this gating they will implement something else.
I know what you mean. I for one have professional QA Testing experience in the industry, and I was willing to use my skills and experience to test the latest Tribble patches for Delta Rising. And now I cannot because of the restriction to "Gold Members".
they assume once expansion stuff is up on tribble, almost nobody will want to visit the bugfix only server, so it's fine to move it to the weaker server hardware that can't handle many players, which is redshirt.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
Redshirt does differ a liitle from the version of the game on Tribble. No access to cstore, or
any of the free to test items or systems, not sure wether that makes much of a difference,
but thought it worth noting, as it may not be the only thing thats exlcuded from the build or
options set.
All you can do is play existing content to try to level to 60, but it's not as easy as any of you are thinking (try about 36,000 skill points to go from 50 to 51)
Secondly the reason they have decided to go gold only is to prevent everyone from rushing the server at once if they see something in the patch notes. Tribble can't take the same level of load holodeck can, and red shirt is even worse off.
If anyone remembers, they went and gave everyone, reguradless if you tested or not, a Nukara Tribble because so many people wanted to test LOR open beta that it reaked havoc with the server.
They can't get feedback if no one can get on.
You think this idea is new? It happens all the time. If Disney is about to open a new attraction, they limit acess to only guest with annual passes. And on super high traffic days, they only allow resort guests, people staying at thier own hotels, to get into a certain park if not all of them.
Give you guys a personal example.
Because my grandmother's birthday is December 26th, we've never been able to go somewhere for Christmas, but my father wanted to go down to Disney World at least once during the holidays (he loved it down there so much, if he hadn't passed away from cancer a few years ago, we'd probibly be living down there now. Every summer it was not so much "if" so much as "when and how")
So he gets his wish in 2002, and we pack up on 12/27 and drive down. On New Year's Eve day, my sister and I are wandering around Epcot, when we decide to head over to the magic kingdom. We go outside and there is a massive crowd at the bottom of the ramp to the Monorail station. I squeeze my way to front and ask what's the matter. The lady tells me Magic Kingdom is reaching capacity, so only resort guests are being allowed in. I show her my room key and she steps a side. I then reach into the crowd, pull my sister out and we head up a basicly empty ramp and empty station.
I had acess to that park that day because I was a "gold" member. Actually I was gold three times over. I was staying at one of thier resorts, I had an annual pass and we are Disney Vacation Club members, which means other than an account maintainece fee, I basicly can get between a week and two weeks down (depending on where I go and what kind if room I get) there for free every year till sometime around 2050.
Someone staying on International Drive with a 5 day ticket is not going to get the same benefits.
And later, the next summer, I rode Mission:SPACE 20 times before it even actually opened officially because of the annual passes we kept buying (go in august one year and buy the pases, go July the next, two trips for one)
So this whole "gold gets first crack" is not new.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
And to think some people get paid for quality assurance as a job, and now it's the opposite. I know other games have done it, but doesn't make it right. And there are better more fair ways to regulate the amount of testers on the server.
Now for my big questions:
1. Are the F2P people going to get a date when they can test out the X2 stuff on tribble?
2. Is there finally going to be 8472 and Delta Rising rep testers boxes on Drozona Station with all the other boxes?
3. And Are Tribble testers going to get acces to ALL the ships to test and play including the c-store and Lobi ships?
The server cannot handle large amount of players. It makes sense to limit the quantity till they are ready to open the flood gates.
That's why this thread exists, it was started by Coldsnaped to specificly tell us that fact.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
platform of stability on which to operate. its a monthly figure they can, with a
reasonable level of certainly, expect to recieve.
in STO, while f2p players may spend lots of money in game, it should also be noted
that, so do many gold and lts players, the big difference here is that gold and lts
players have made an, accountable, commitment to the game, providing this stable
platform that allows us to have, pretty much, the best f2p model on the market.
there isnt a single business out there that will offer the same level of service, or
access, to visiting customers, that it does to its paying members. any expectation
that it should be anything different is just crazy talk. you should be beaten about
the ears with a large tribble toy and made to wear some kind of sign to warn us
about your delusional expectations.
so for those with the crazy talk.. here's a tissue, dry your eyes and wait to see what
will happen in the coming weeks. remember, the forums are forever, the louder you
whine now, the dafter you'll look later.
I second these questions!
old post from branflakes reference ship testing, i believe this is still relavent
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=10876531&postcount=1
Unfortunately, at least the last 2 releases, they've made the players grind. The last two rep sets had bugs go into Holodeck related to the set bonuses because the mark grind was forced in order to get the gear that needed testing.
Yes, amazing that a for profit company wants to allow those that directly/consistently provide them with said profit the first chance to test new content should those that do so want to test.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Aside from the fact you've waited for nothing since nothing has been really added yet of any substance (just a few bug fixes and the level cap increase), the acess rules of Holodeck do not apply on Tribble.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
you know, the place where everyone and their grandma plays, rather than tribble that's used or cared about by a fraction of subbers.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.