That's fine as long as it applies to both genders. As I said, I am all about nuance, and different body shapes/types definitely fits into that category. I just reject the game's limitations on "male-ness" and masculinity.
No no... nothing like that...
I also keep the hands off the boob-slider on my female chars... I just go with the size the system gives me when I create them.
And hey... I am the last one to tell other people what they should and shouldn like/do, as long as they don't impose it on others...
I just find the whole "sexuality-slider" concept akward for some reason.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Okay so I'm trying something new today (I also don't wanna do actual work for another hour hehe).
I've deleted most of the problem posts in here to keep this discussion going. That said, I will not do it a second time.
As a guy that's married to another man, if STO wants to add more LGBT friendly locations or items into the game by all means! I'm happy with that, and if people feel they need to do more then sure push for it
That said, any violation of the rules from here on out and I won't be friendly.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
First. I'd support all clothing and stance options for all sexes and races, it's an infinite universe with infinite combinations of characters anyway so I don't think it would look out of place. I'd bet even the KDF would have no worries about it so long as you fight well enough.
Secondly the club spaces. Since Drozana changed it's become too civilised I suppose in it's atmosphere. I do still miss the old map sometimes, it was claustrophobic and it set the scene of being a shady night spot.
So my first wish would be to open up Shangdu on Nimbus. Not a new idea but a fine one in my opinion. Perhaps once you've finished the Wasteland content Horace Jones takes over the club as it's new owner and allows everyone access.
And Club 47, yes it should come back. That poor DJ is still stuck in that room probably bored out of her brains. But it needs to come back bigger and better than before. I'm thinking rip out those lower deck corridors no-one ever uses and fix a huge social and club space in it's place.
I'd also hope the devs take some inspiration from Risa in the re-design as well.
Those who know me know that I am a long-time player of STO, a big supporter of all the recent game changes implemented by the devs, and a massive Trek fan. It should come as little surprise to anyone that I am loving all these updates -- starting with LoR, they have ALL been grand slams, as far as I can see. The devs have continually hit it out of the park with season 8, 8.5, 9, and this last update. Thanks for all your time and effort, Devs, your hard work is definitely being noticed on my end.
However...I am a little hesitant to jump on the whine-wagon, but the RP-friendly options, especially the social zones, have left me just a little cold. For awhile, I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but I think I have a pretty good handle on what's been bothering me: I don't feel comfortable in the social areas provided by STO as of now. I LOVED Club 47, and I cannot WAIT for the revamped version. The first one was absolutely fabulous, and I miss it sorely. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: STO needs some more LGBT-friendly options. I want seductive dances for males. I want mankinis. I want some "safe" social areas where people can come and RP with like-minded players without the constant harassment and tired threats.
How about it, Devs?
You've been nailing it so far, let's keep this going!
For request 1 - revealing male clothes, I wonder if the recent Risa developments might lead to more options there, I've been wanting the ToS Mirror Kirk Vest for ages now, and it would definitely be canon to run around on planets with various tattered "standard" uniforms... And while I might not use them a few more emotes might be handy, I don't recall them adding more than the two dances (fan and Samba) since F2P started...
Now, as to the second request, as others have said, the safest social zone in the game is your local bridge and/or "like minded individual's" fleet base, primarily due to the restrictions of access. Outside of those two areas, you are subject to the entire community in all their shining (and murky) glories, whether you're at Club 47, Drozana, the Promenade, Quarks, First City's bar, Mol'Rihan Command's patio, etc. Appeal to the players in those zones to show off the "spirit of inclusion" so prevalent in Trek, however, as long as the ToS is not being violated the worst that a player can do is, well, report potential offenders...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
if STO wants to add more LGBT friendly locations or items into the game by all means! I'm happy with that, and if people feel they need to do more then sure push for it
OK, genuine question.
What would that look like?
In terms of what the devs can do, i don't think they've made anything LGBT unfriendly.
Pretty much the only unfriendly thing, and this isnt all the time, is zone chat.
Over which the devs have very little influence.
What would something LGBT friendly look like in STO,without being either condescending or stereotypical?
Those who know me know that I am a long-time player of STO, a big supporter of all the recent game changes implemented by the devs, and a massive Trek fan. It should come as little surprise to anyone that I am loving all these updates -- starting with LoR, they have ALL been grand slams, as far as I can see. The devs have continually hit it out of the park with season 8, 8.5, 9, and this last update. Thanks for all your time and effort, Devs, your hard work is definitely being noticed on my end.
However...I am a little hesitant to jump on the whine-wagon, but the RP-friendly options, especially the social zones, have left me just a little cold. For awhile, I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but I think I have a pretty good handle on what's been bothering me: I don't feel comfortable in the social areas provided by STO as of now. I LOVED Club 47, and I cannot WAIT for the revamped version. The first one was absolutely fabulous, and I miss it sorely. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: STO needs some more LGBT-friendly options. I want seductive dances for males. I want mankinis. I want some "safe" social areas where people can come and RP with like-minded players without the constant harassment and tired threats.
How about it, Devs?
You've been nailing it so far, let's keep this going!
From what you're saying Nabreeki, sounds like more than anything, cryptic just needs to hire in game GM's that patrol the social zones and make sure players aren't harassing anyone. I thought that was a thing in MMOs?
And RP'ing as sexually active Caitians...I guess there's some interesting things going on in game that I had no clue about...
Let me back up a bit: I didn't necessarily mean LGBT ONLY segregated zones, and perhaps the solution isn't in the zone itself, but in the atmosphere.
A couple posts above made in jest seem to underline the very thing I'm talking about. While people don't seem to bat an eye when two Orions (played by men, mind you) decide to be in-game "lesbians" (most likely for ERP reasons, but let's run with this), but I've found that openly TRIBBLE RP in STO still attracts quite the comments from other players, and very negative ones at that. There are people in the game who openly RP as sexually active Catians (not a dig at Ashkrik, talking in generalities here), have "Gorn" fetishes (yes, that's a thing, apparently), but the hostility I've witnessed to openly TRIBBLE RP is appalling.
I guess I'm talking less about zone and more of an effort by STO to be more inclusive, and that starts with preconceived notions of "manliness" that are often promoted by games. Look at the stances you have available as a male -- brawler, swagger, etc. Why not have a seductive or cute pose for men (and why not, conversely, have a brawler stance for females)?
Why not offer more revealing clothing for males? Maybe a few male dancers up on stage? Or male prostitutes hanging out in the alleys of QoNos?
Maybe the answer lies with better enforcement of the TOS in regards to legitimate discrimination against sexual preference (though, I see plenty of horrible religious, racial, sexual comments in the game with no apparent consequence, either).
I thought your previous attempts at trolling were bad, but this takes the cake. Bravo.
Hmmm male prostitutes in the allies of Qo'nos. Makes me think of a nice older lady in my fleet that plays the game with eight year old son who has an account.
Mom: "Whatever you do son, don't go down those alleys over there".
Son "Why mom, what's over there?"
Mom "Nothing you need to see and I'm telling you now; you're not to go down there"
The next day
Son "Mom! Mom! There boy's dressed like girls in there!?? Why are those boys dressed like that?"
Mom "What?! Where?! Tell me you didn't go into the alley. I told you not to."
Son "A man in there talked to me and said he wanted to toss my salad. Mom why would he want to toss my salad. I don't have a salad."
Mom "Well, eight year old son, those boys dressed like girls are male prostitutes, and they dress like that to attract other men so they'll give them money to have sex with them. And the term toss your salad refers to..."
Son: *cries hysterically and rocks back and forth*
I have made previous references to you as a "furry" in other threads and I wanted to make it explicitly clear that I didn't mean to make a jab at you since you came in this thread and posted a legitimate question. Get over yourself, my man, not everything is meant as a personal slight.
You sure you didn't mean to make it a jab. I know how this works. It's been done before with the "furry" labeling.
Those who know me know that I am a long-time player of STO, a big supporter of all the recent game changes implemented by the devs, and a massive Trek fan. It should come as little surprise to anyone that I am loving all these updates -- starting with LoR, they have ALL been grand slams, as far as I can see. The devs have continually hit it out of the park with season 8, 8.5, 9, and this last update. Thanks for all your time and effort, Devs, your hard work is definitely being noticed on my end.
However...I am a little hesitant to jump on the whine-wagon, but the RP-friendly options, especially the social zones, have left me just a little cold. For awhile, I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but I think I have a pretty good handle on what's been bothering me: I don't feel comfortable in the social areas provided by STO as of now. I LOVED Club 47, and I cannot WAIT for the revamped version. The first one was absolutely fabulous, and I miss it sorely. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: STO needs some more LGBT-friendly options. I want seductive dances for males. I want mankinis. I want some "safe" social areas where people can come and RP with like-minded players without the constant harassment and tired threats.
How about it, Devs?
You've been nailing it so far, let's keep this going!
Well aren't you sucking on the teet?
In my many many years of MMO experience, I can't say I've ever witnessed a brown noser that was quite as full of dung as you seem to be from this post. Come to think of it I've almost never seen anyone that thinks every update/change is perfect. Either you're on drugs, or some kind of shill.
Let me back up a bit: I didn't necessarily mean LGBT ONLY segregated zones, and perhaps the solution isn't in the zone itself, but in the atmosphere.
A couple posts above made in jest seem to underline the very thing I'm talking about. While people don't seem to bat an eye when two Orions (played by men, mind you) decide to be in-game "lesbians" (most likely for ERP reasons, but let's run with this), but I've found that openly TRIBBLE RP in STO still attracts quite the comments from other players, and very negative ones at that. There are people in the game who openly RP as sexually active Catians (not a dig at Ashkrik, talking in generalities here), have "Gorn" fetishes (yes, that's a thing, apparently), but the hostility I've witnessed to openly TRIBBLE RP is appalling.
I guess I'm talking less about zone and more of an effort by STO to be more inclusive, and that starts with preconceived notions of "manliness" that are often promoted by games. Look at the stances you have available as a male -- brawler, swagger, etc. Why not have a seductive or cute pose for men (and why not, conversely, have a brawler stance for females)?
Why not offer more revealing clothing for males? Maybe a few male dancers up on stage? Or male prostitutes hanging out in the alleys of QoNos?
Maybe the answer lies with better enforcement of the TOS in regards to legitimate discrimination against sexual preference (though, I see plenty of horrible religious, racial, sexual comments in the game with no apparent consequence, either).
Man, no kidding. Players cater to themselves for the L and B (and undoubtedly the T, heyo), but I have to agree with Nabreeki that the G in LGBT is tends to get shut down rather viciously by a substantial amount of people, even in my usually casual circle of roleplayer acquaintances.
...I quickly have learned to avoid such closed-minded folks.
But hey, I'm all up for more customization options for characters. Especially such as those that are actually easily implemented, just a transference of animation sets between character genders.
____GREAT LEADERS LET THEIR ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm going to take the opposing point of view here, as respectfully as I can.
I'll be honest and say straight up that I would be one of those who would be very uncomfortable with what Nabreeki is proposing.
First, I'm sure I would cringe at a male character that used the "cute" stance*. But beyond that, why reinforce the stereotype that a TRIBBLE man has to be effeminate? And why would the male equivalent of seductive look exactly like the female version? Aside from the fact that it would probably look utterly stupid on the male frame as a direct port-over. I have the same issues with the skant. Revealing outfits for guys should look like they were made for guys.
Don't get me started on bikini/mankini wear off Risa. I don't want to see that running around ESD as if it's a beach resort, male or female. It's an official hub of the Federation and Starfleet, for crying out loud. Over on Drozana, that I could maybe see.
Creation of a social area just for the LGBT player base is also not a feasible idea. The Devs are not going to provide special areas for different cultural groups because a) it directly contradicts the idea that the Federation society is inclusive and no one group is favored over another, and b) there is no end to the number of different cliques that would want their own special zones too.
Zone chat is what it is. I tend to tune it out because the odds are really high that I'm going to be disgusted with somebody's remarks, sooner or later. It's appalling on so many levels. But even there, it's inclusive. Anybody with a comment is free to offer it up and probably get away with it, whether it's homophobic, anti-religious, politically-incorrect, you name it.
Is that okay? Certainly not. But I don't see that there are too many ways to control that except to avoid it as best as you can.
EDIT: * The female cute stance looks bad enough. Really unnatural, IMO.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I have to admit to some level of curiosity as to exactly how such ... proposals ... would be carried out.
I'm more concerned, however, with the continuous level of resistance that all involved parties seem to have towards reality.
LBGT people are not going to magically vanish, no matter how much some of you wish they would.
Some people are never going to accept LBGT people no matter what mandates are handed down. It's been over 40 years since the civil rights movements and there are people who still think black and Latino people are subhumans.
Catering to the demands of one group only incites others who dislike that group to greater heights of dislike and lulz, which have already infested this game enough.
I would hope that if LGBT people are going to demand specific emotes, locales, clothing options and the like that
a) these will not be implemented until CORE portions of factions (Klingons and Romulans) have already been fitted out with such things and that
b) people will use these things in a manner that is respectful to those who disagree with their lifestyle.
I do not think LGBT people should be forced into a closet, IRL or even in games. I do not have a problem, on the face of it, with the OP's suggestions. However, I feel there are a great many immature and ... er, less than salubrious actions that could be taken by certain groups of people if the proposal isn't put together properly.
So you go from breaking the forums TOS in one thread, to breaking the forums TOS in the other by posting a "name and shame" post (or did you conveniently "miss" that rule also) with unsubstantiated bluster. These outrageous accusations against myself and my fleet are, of course, beneath me, and I will not address them head-on.
Interesting way to avoid the truth.
But, since you have apparently "turned the other cheek" so to speak, I've always been willing to forgive and forget.
Since this seems to be sincere at the moment, I'll second your suggestion with a caveat,
No specific place needs to be created, just add a few Uni-sex clothing options and stances.
:cool:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
No no... nothing like that...
I also keep the hands off the boob-slider on my female chars... I just go with the size the system gives me when I create them.
And hey... I am the last one to tell other people what they should and shouldn like/do, as long as they don't impose it on others...
I just find the whole "sexuality-slider" concept akward for some reason.
i do use the boob-slider on all my females but i dont go overboard with it like making them look like photon torpedoes i like mine to look natural
system Lord Baal is dead
I've deleted most of the problem posts in here to keep this discussion going. That said, I will not do it a second time.
As a guy that's married to another man, if STO wants to add more LGBT friendly locations or items into the game by all means! I'm happy with that, and if people feel they need to do more then sure push for it
That said, any violation of the rules from here on out and I won't be friendly.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Secondly the club spaces. Since Drozana changed it's become too civilised I suppose in it's atmosphere. I do still miss the old map sometimes, it was claustrophobic and it set the scene of being a shady night spot.
So my first wish would be to open up Shangdu on Nimbus. Not a new idea but a fine one in my opinion. Perhaps once you've finished the Wasteland content Horace Jones takes over the club as it's new owner and allows everyone access.
And Club 47, yes it should come back. That poor DJ is still stuck in that room probably bored out of her brains. But it needs to come back bigger and better than before. I'm thinking rip out those lower deck corridors no-one ever uses and fix a huge social and club space in it's place.
I'd also hope the devs take some inspiration from Risa in the re-design as well.
For request 1 - revealing male clothes, I wonder if the recent Risa developments might lead to more options there, I've been wanting the ToS Mirror Kirk Vest for ages now, and it would definitely be canon to run around on planets with various tattered "standard" uniforms... And while I might not use them a few more emotes might be handy, I don't recall them adding more than the two dances (fan and Samba) since F2P started...
Now, as to the second request, as others have said, the safest social zone in the game is your local bridge and/or "like minded individual's" fleet base, primarily due to the restrictions of access. Outside of those two areas, you are subject to the entire community in all their shining (and murky) glories, whether you're at Club 47, Drozana, the Promenade, Quarks, First City's bar, Mol'Rihan Command's patio, etc. Appeal to the players in those zones to show off the "spirit of inclusion" so prevalent in Trek, however, as long as the ToS is not being violated the worst that a player can do is, well, report potential offenders...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Doesn't that mean that while women are fighting to be allowed to go topless, you're fighting to wear their tops?
OK, genuine question.
What would that look like?
In terms of what the devs can do, i don't think they've made anything LGBT unfriendly.
Pretty much the only unfriendly thing, and this isnt all the time, is zone chat.
Over which the devs have very little influence.
What would something LGBT friendly look like in STO,without being either condescending or stereotypical?
Skant's spring to mind
Just this
https://i.imgflip.com/984d5.jpg
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
And RP'ing as sexually active Caitians...I guess there's some interesting things going on in game that I had no clue about...
I thought your previous attempts at trolling were bad, but this takes the cake. Bravo.
Mom: "Whatever you do son, don't go down those alleys over there".
Son "Why mom, what's over there?"
Mom "Nothing you need to see and I'm telling you now; you're not to go down there"
The next day
Son "Mom! Mom! There boy's dressed like girls in there!?? Why are those boys dressed like that?"
Mom "What?! Where?! Tell me you didn't go into the alley. I told you not to."
Son "A man in there talked to me and said he wanted to toss my salad. Mom why would he want to toss my salad. I don't have a salad."
Mom "Well, eight year old son, those boys dressed like girls are male prostitutes, and they dress like that to attract other men so they'll give them money to have sex with them. And the term toss your salad refers to..."
Son: *cries hysterically and rocks back and forth*
You sure you didn't mean to make it a jab. I know how this works. It's been done before with the "furry" labeling.
Well aren't you sucking on the teet?
In my many many years of MMO experience, I can't say I've ever witnessed a brown noser that was quite as full of dung as you seem to be from this post. Come to think of it I've almost never seen anyone that thinks every update/change is perfect. Either you're on drugs, or some kind of shill.
Man, no kidding. Players cater to themselves for the L and B (and undoubtedly the T, heyo), but I have to agree with Nabreeki that the G in LGBT is tends to get shut down rather viciously by a substantial amount of people, even in my usually casual circle of roleplayer acquaintances.
...I quickly have learned to avoid such closed-minded folks.
But hey, I'm all up for more customization options for characters. Especially such as those that are actually easily implemented, just a transference of animation sets between character genders.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'll be honest and say straight up that I would be one of those who would be very uncomfortable with what Nabreeki is proposing.
First, I'm sure I would cringe at a male character that used the "cute" stance*. But beyond that, why reinforce the stereotype that a TRIBBLE man has to be effeminate? And why would the male equivalent of seductive look exactly like the female version? Aside from the fact that it would probably look utterly stupid on the male frame as a direct port-over. I have the same issues with the skant. Revealing outfits for guys should look like they were made for guys.
Don't get me started on bikini/mankini wear off Risa. I don't want to see that running around ESD as if it's a beach resort, male or female. It's an official hub of the Federation and Starfleet, for crying out loud. Over on Drozana, that I could maybe see.
Creation of a social area just for the LGBT player base is also not a feasible idea. The Devs are not going to provide special areas for different cultural groups because a) it directly contradicts the idea that the Federation society is inclusive and no one group is favored over another, and b) there is no end to the number of different cliques that would want their own special zones too.
Zone chat is what it is. I tend to tune it out because the odds are really high that I'm going to be disgusted with somebody's remarks, sooner or later. It's appalling on so many levels. But even there, it's inclusive. Anybody with a comment is free to offer it up and probably get away with it, whether it's homophobic, anti-religious, politically-incorrect, you name it.
Is that okay? Certainly not. But I don't see that there are too many ways to control that except to avoid it as best as you can.
EDIT: * The female cute stance looks bad enough. Really unnatural, IMO.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I'm more concerned, however, with the continuous level of resistance that all involved parties seem to have towards reality.
LBGT people are not going to magically vanish, no matter how much some of you wish they would.
Some people are never going to accept LBGT people no matter what mandates are handed down. It's been over 40 years since the civil rights movements and there are people who still think black and Latino people are subhumans.
Catering to the demands of one group only incites others who dislike that group to greater heights of dislike and lulz, which have already infested this game enough.
I would hope that if LGBT people are going to demand specific emotes, locales, clothing options and the like that
a) these will not be implemented until CORE portions of factions (Klingons and Romulans) have already been fitted out with such things and that
b) people will use these things in a manner that is respectful to those who disagree with their lifestyle.
I do not think LGBT people should be forced into a closet, IRL or even in games. I do not have a problem, on the face of it, with the OP's suggestions. However, I feel there are a great many immature and ... er, less than salubrious actions that could be taken by certain groups of people if the proposal isn't put together properly.
Interesting way to avoid the truth.
But, since you have apparently "turned the other cheek" so to speak, I've always been willing to forgive and forget.
Since this seems to be sincere at the moment, I'll second your suggestion with a caveat,
No specific place needs to be created, just add a few Uni-sex clothing options and stances.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion