so even though i have the original fleet patrol escort i cant get a discount at all... there goes 4 fleet modules on a now "obsolete" ship that in 99% of other games if they update something they update everyone's ships of the type they updated.
It's obsolete in that "it's not sold anymore".
Beyond the new gimmicks the new patrol escort has, there is nothing that makes the old FPE anything but "no longer obtainable". It's still the tough, reliable escort in contrast to the glass cannon Defiant and the squishy magical MVAE.
I'd like a discount or *something* for having used the FPE for a while. 2-FSM-off discount for the Fleet Refit? I'm not sure.
Some sort of reward for having used this ship for so long, basically.
Also, whats up with the impulse engines on the pylons? That just looks like a bad idea.
Another Fed T5 Escort with 5 Tactical Consoles... again obviously Pro-Fed of Cryptic.
When we ever see a Klingon BoP, Raptor or a KDF alien align Escort/Destroyer with 5 Tactical Consoles or 5 Fore Weapons?... thats when Targs grow wings and fly...
Another Fed T5 Escort with 5 Tactical Consoles... again obviously Pro-Fed of Cryptic.
When we ever see a Klingon BoP, Raptor or a KDF alien align Escort/Destroyer with 5 Tactical Consoles or 5 Fore Weapons?... thats when Targs grow wings and fly...
You know I find it redundant if also ridiculous about the fact when does the KDF get this or that. For crying out LOUD the KDF after the Breen Frigate was released in Q's last Winter Wonderland showed the perks for getting "Flanking" bonuses that now the Raider Class ships also have the same "Flanking" bonuses now as well. What more does the KDF want Sweet Tea and Fried Chicken? Oh wait, wait, even better. Lets also have a big House Reunion and bang heads with one another over Bloodwine, and slander insults at one another over outrageous honor and fight to the death. BRILLIANT!
Growl for me oh Bony Ridged Microbrain One will you?
You know I find it redundant if also ridiculous about the fact when does the KDF get this or that. For crying out LOUD the KDF after the Breen Frigate was released in Q's last Winter Wonderland showed the perks for getting "Flanking" bonuses that now the Raider Class ships also have the same "Flanking" bonuses now as well. What more does the KDF want Sweet Tea and Fried Chicken? Oh wait, wait, even better. Lets also have a big House Reunion and bang heads with one another over Bloodwine, and slander insults at one another over outrageous honor and fight to the death. BRILLIANT!
Growl for me oh Bony Ridged Microbrain One will you?
The factions want parity in ship design, both numerically and otherwise. Great rendition of your Kirk-like impersonation there!!
I hope you don't mind I pictured you with a disco-ball and party-popper to add to your dazzle. :rolleyes:
PS. If you had an iota understanding of the mechanics of the game you would know that flanking bonus offers zip in comparison to the ship builds being discuss. Where the one is a given, allowing you to leverage substantial builds and DPS off it, the other is entirely situational on a completed outdated model from Season 2.
Christ ... the new Fleet Patrol Escort trumps the JHAS.
The new ship is tempting to get, but I'm still holding out for that ever elusive chance we'll see a Ferasan ship someday. I'm not sure if Cryptic have it in the cards or not, but now that both the Feddies and Rommies have Heavy Escort Carriers, I was hoping the KDF would have got theirs by now and the Ferasan still haven't got a ship on the market. So would a HEC suit their nature? Just running by ideas.
Anyway, got sidetracked, I know. That said, however, I just wish there was a new ship I would be willing to buy that multiple characters could benefit from. All these ships that have consoles that are exclusive only to x ship is a deal killer for me, regardless of faction, because I like to mix things up and not have everyone use the exact same thing. It's why I tend to buy more ships that have universal consoles... and ironically they're usually much cheaper purchases.
The factions want parity in ship design, both numerically and otherwise. Great rendition of your Kirk-like impersonation there!!
I hope you don't mind I pictured you with a disco-ball and party-popper to add to your dazzle. :rolleyes:
PS. If you had an iota understanding of the mechanics of the game you would know that flanking bonus offers zip in comparison to the ship builds being discuss. Where the one is a given, allowing you to leverage substantial builds and DPS off it, the other is entirely situational on a completed outdated model from Season 2.
Christ ... the new Fleet Patrol Escort trumps the JHAS.
Okay first things first,
"Growl for me oh Bony Microbrain One." THAT'S Q MO CAPITAIN. BRILLIANT!
First demerit on your "So called" expertise on Star Trek quotes and impersonations,
Now on to the second hand of nature itself.
Flanking bonus means more than zip when it comes to the Raider Class on the KDF side, and why? BECAUSE I OWN SEVERAL BRILLIANT! When a person cloaks and they decloak and fire that can count as bonus to your "Critical Severity". And why you may ask? Wait for it...........BECAUSE IT COUNTS AS AN AMBUSH. ALSO BRILLIANT DRKFRONTIERS. Wow already the odds are really stacking up against you already as a Captain on the forums.
Third, my personal favorite,
If you read the POST there Einstein, and allow me to act that more properly out there for you, ~Rolls Eyes~ you would find that he was complaining why in fact that the FED's get the revised update for a Patrol Escort. In all honesty I would think it is right the FED side get a ship such as this. Well known fact KDF usually has a better advantage in PVP with their ships when built right on the KDF side. Including if those ships are "wolfpacked" Raiders operating as a team. Then to add to the equation you have the Romulan side as well that could side either be KDF or even FED as well. And may I NOTE FOR THE RECORD! Raiders and all Romulan ships have a Battle Cloak which in turn working as a team is a TOTAL GAME CHANGER. When you take into account coming out of cloak gives a major bonus to ambush which in turn also factors into DPS, and CRITS is the PROCS, PERKS, and all the QUARKS are all done right as well.
Oh and PS: FYQE if you need help understanding that. It's, FOR YOUR QUALITY ENTERTAINMENT! I know much about game mechanics, how builds, procs, and even stats and skills as well as traits, plus the right modules, right doffs, and yes even consules done right can factor into a ships performance, bonuses from those builds, plus the way the game mechanics both in PVP, Warzones, and even STF's all factor differently. But then again you ARE a Captain and thus in turn would be an expert on such things DrkFrontiers. BRILLIANT!
No they don't. The only Heavy Escort Carriers are the Armitage HEC and the Jem'Hadar HEC.
Wait, wait, wait. Did my eyes deceive me? Orangeitis, EPIC FAIL!
There are actually three types of what you could classify HEAVY ESCORT CARRIERS. The first yes is the Armitage the FED Tact Carrier, then on the Jem'Hadar side yes you have both the Dreadnaught Carrier......and also the Heavy Escort Carrier. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE! Stay around for the next so many minutes and I will throw in THE ROMULAN AR'KIF TACTICAL CARRIER. BRILLIANT ORANGEITIS must be your Grapefruit day today.
Wait, wait, wait. Did my eyes deceive me? Orangeitis, EPIC FAIL!
There are actually three types of what you could classify HEAVY ESCORT CARRIERS. The first yes is the Armitage the FED Tact Carrier, then on the Jem'Hadar side yes you have both the Dreadnaught Carrier......and also the Heavy Escort Carrier. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE! Stay around for the next so many minutes and I will throw in THE ROMULAN AR'KIF TACTICAL CARRIER. BRILLIANT ORANGEITIS must be your Grapefruit day today.
Think he probably meant that there aren't any dedicated KDF HECs. The Jem'hadar vessels are lock box ships so he's probably not counting those as they aren't obtainable as account unlocks via the c-store for a set price. The Romulan vessels are also only available to KDF allied Rom toons, not plain KDF toons.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Think he probably meant that there aren't any dedicated KDF HECs. The Jem'hadar vessels are lock box ships so he's probably not counting those as they aren't obtainable as account unlocks via the c-store for a set price. The Romulan vessels are also only available to KDF allied Rom toons, not plain KDF toons.
Again flawed in the information.
First off:
The KDF needing a dedicated HEC? Let me outline this you have the Flight Deck Carriers which of course yes might not have the tactical side to favor in both ships. Still they carry favoritism toward the science and the engineering side as well. This being said they're support ships. Which would explain this. And as far as the Romulan Ar'kif goes, NO it is not just EXCLUSIVE to the KDF side. The Ar'kif Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit is a C Store ship that is playable to the Romulan's either if they are allied to either FED or KDF. The Ar'kif is NOT only exclusive to FED or KDF it IS however exclusive to the Romulan side regardless of what side the Romulan allies with.
Second off:
He DID note that in fact there is TWO only TWO types of Tactical Carriers. The Armitage HEC, the Jem'Hadar HEC, and yet yes on the Romulan side the Ar'kif Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit. They are in fact Tactical favored ships, carry a hanger bay. So yes they fit into the same category.
Third and final:
When it comes to the KDF they have a very great Order of Battle with the type of ships that they have lined up. It makes me laugh so hard how the KDF side always whines that when the FEDS come out with a ship "OH NO EVERYTHING IS OUT OF BALANCE!" Again WRONG! If anything the most OPed ship on the PVP side is a Scimitar, although I can also beg to differ there are other ships out there as well that built right could compete but factually yes the Scimitar is in fact very OPed and badass. And the best part is that is a Romulan ship you find on both the FED and KDF as well and why? Because Romulans can decide to ally with either FED or KDF. So for the KDF wanting to see a HEC on their side? Why really need it with all the styles of gameplay in PVP that the KDF have at their disposal every new FED ship Cryptic comes out with makes them drool. Know the ship, know the build, and know your playing style. Simple!
It makes me laugh so hard how the KDF side always whines that when the FEDS come out with a ship "OH NO EVERYTHING IS OUT OF BALANCE!"
what is out of balance is the attention devs have to both the faction. How many ships have had feds in the last 3 years? how many ship the kdf? look at the store: how many ships have feds, how many kdf?
Everytime I try to persuade someone to play kdf, the answer I have is "I do not like it, kdf have a few old ships and no attention by devs". It can be wrong, but if so... why the general perception of kdf is "a lost faction"?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
what is out of balance is the attention devs have to both the faction. How many ships have had feds in the last 3 years? how many ship the kdf? look at the store: how many ships have feds, how many kdf?
Everytime I try to persuade someone to play kdf, the answer I have is "I do not like it, kdf have a few old ships and no attention by devs". It can be wrong, but if so... why the general perception of kdf is "a lost faction"?
How silly of you, you know very well the KDF isn't allow to ask for balance, bug fixes that have plagued the faction for years, updates or for another unique ship (who's uniqueness will eventually just be given away in the form on non C-store payment item to the feds) its only been 2+ years since the last one. Its like the KDF just got it yesterday, you should be thankful. Not to mention the new fleet kar'fi which is unobtainable to about 50+ % of the players.
KDF raiders got flanking bonus, and the feds ONLY got a redesigned ESD, fleet Dreadnought, new skins, new escort, galaxy bundle..
Man you got some nerve to ask for attention and equality. :P
I use to do 100K DPS, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Your Ramming Speed III deals 242658 (243540) Kinetic Damage (Critical) to you.
i don't see much incentive to buy a Z-store ship that has the same number of consoles as a LVL 40 ship.
yeah, it has a extra fused gun, but probably "will force us" to go with one type of energy wich isin't that awsome after all.
it has 5 tactical consoles instead of 4 , but it has -1 engenier console that i use for a universal console, so it kinda makes it like another ship that jugles consoles arround, and i don't see a real incentive.
if it had the slot layout from the fleet patrol escort, wich i consider to be the minimal to be interested, then it would be cool.
i don't see much incentive to buy a Z-store ship that has the same number of consoles as a LVL 40 ship.
1. Discount for fleet ship.
If you want the fleet version for more than one char, you can save big by spending 2500 Zen on Z-store ship + 500 Zen per character instead of 2500 Zen per character.
2. Special console.
I just one-shot killed a Tethys Dreadnought with it. 'Nuff said.
Wait, wait, wait. Did my eyes deceive me? Orangeitis, EPIC FAIL!
There are actually three types of what you could classify HEAVY ESCORT CARRIERS. The first yes is the Armitage the FED Tact Carrier, then on the Jem'Hadar side yes you have both the Dreadnaught Carrier......and also the Heavy Escort Carrier. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE! Stay around for the next so many minutes and I will throw in THE ROMULAN AR'KIF TACTICAL CARRIER. BRILLIANT ORANGEITIS must be your Grapefruit day today.
That's wrong. Either a ship is a HEC or it isn't a HEC. The only ships that can be classified as Heavy Escort Carriers are the ones that have "Heavy Escort Carrier" in their titles. There are only two so far.
The Ar'kif is a Tactical Carrier Warbird. It's a Carrier, just like the HECs, but it's a Tactical Warbird, not a Heavy Escort. And the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier is a Dreadnought, not a Heavy Escort. The Jem'Hadar already has their HEC, and it's illogical to label their Dreadnought as one too.
No need to get emotional on this matter, by the way.
Think he probably meant that there aren't any dedicated KDF HECs. The Jem'hadar vessels are lock box ships so he's probably not counting those as they aren't obtainable as account unlocks via the c-store for a set price. The Romulan vessels are also only available to KDF allied Rom toons, not plain KDF toons.
No, I meant what I said. Some posters are giving their own labels onto ships, and the other posters around here might not know what they're even talking about.
KDFs will probably never get a Heavy Escort Carrier because the Klingons don't have any playable Escorts. The closest I'd guess that they might get is a Heavy Raptor Carrier, and that I think would push it. The existing Heavy Raptor models don't look beefy enough to house fighters, IMO.
He DID note that in fact there is TWO only TWO types of Tactical Carriers. The Armitage HEC, the Jem'Hadar HEC, and yet yes on the Romulan side the Ar'kif Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit. They are in fact Tactical favored ships, carry a hanger bay. So yes they fit into the same category.
Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say that there were only two types of "Tactical Carriers", I pointed out that there are only two types of "Heavy Escort Carriers". The two terms are not synonymous.
Again flawed in the information.
First off:
The Ar'kif Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit is a C Store ship that is playable to the Romulan's either if they are allied to either FED or KDF. The Ar'kif is NOT only exclusive to FED or KDF it IS however exclusive to the Romulan side regardless of what side the Romulan allies with.
You misread what I posted. I was saying that the Ar'kif is only available to KDF allied Romulans and not KDF standard toons, meaning toons such as Klingons, Gorn, Orions, KDF Alien etc. I wasn't meaning it wasn't available to Romulans allied with Feds, just that it can only be flown by Romulans and therefore is not a KDF ship it's a Romulan ship.
I also wasn't complaining, I was trying to clear up the difference between KDF ships and Romulan ships/lockbox ships.
No, I meant what I said. Some posters are giving their own labels onto ships, and the other posters around here might not know what they're even talking about.
My apologies, I was merely trying to support your point and clarify that the ships mentioned weren't actually KDF dedicated ships, but were in fact Romulan ships or lockbox ships.
The only thing that really bugs me about all of this is the fact that we've got 57 pages into this thread and there hasn't been a single Dev response to explain why they've taken this action on this ship instead of treating it the same way as they did for previous ship updates.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
My apologies, I was merely trying to support your point and clarify that the ships mentioned weren't actually KDF dedicated ships, but were in fact Romulan ships or lockbox ships.
The only thing that really bugs me about all of this is the fact that we've got 57 pages into this thread and there hasn't been a single Dev response to explain why they've taken this action on this ship instead of treating it the same way as they did for previous ship updates.
No need to apologize.
Honestly, I think it was less about the Patrol Escort itself and more about the devs not wanting ships with matching configurations. The Fleet Saber has an almost identical configuration to the old Fleet Maelstrom, aside from one Ensign universal and a point in turn rate. With the Patrol Escort refitted, now the two ships are both their own thing.
Escorts dont have a differentiation except the legacy buff to defense. I'm not sure if the Ar'kif has this or not, IIRC the T'varo does but the Dhelan does not. Otherwise its a distinction without a difference.
Escorts dont have a differentiation except the legacy buff to defense. I'm not sure if the Ar'kif has this or not, IIRC the T'varo does but the Dhelan does not. Otherwise its a distinction without a difference.
Escorts do have a differentiation - they're labelled Escorts. The Ar'kif is not labelled "Escort", let alone thew more specific label "Heavy Escort".
Regardless, the difference is irrelevant. If the people you're talking to don't know what you mean, you should either clarify or use definitions that are already established. What counts here is communication.
Escorts dont have a differentiation except the legacy buff to defense. I'm not sure if the Ar'kif has this or not, IIRC the T'varo does but the Dhelan does not. Otherwise its a distinction without a difference.
None of the Warbirds have it.
Of the Escorts/Escort Carriers/Destroyers/Warships/Attack Ships/etc - the only one I remember not having it (from frequently complaining about it in the past) was the JHEC. The Corvette has a separate +Defense mechanic.
And the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier is a Dreadnought, not a Heavy Escort.
Technically, it's not a Dreadnought. It's a Carrier. Dreadnought is a modifier, creating a subtype - rather than an explicit type in of itself. It's along the lines of Light, Heavy, Assault, Star, etc, etc, etc...
Dreadnought Carrier...defined as a Carrier by having 2x Hangars.
Dreadnought Cruiser...defined as a Cruiser by having access to Command Arrays.
Dreadnought Warbird...defined as a Warbird by utilizing Singularity Cores.
If somebody says they fly a Dreadnought...it doesn't say what they're flying.
Technically, it's not a Dreadnought. It's a Carrier. Dreadnought is a modifier, creating a subtype - rather than an explicit type in of itself. It's along the lines of Light, Heavy, Assault, Star, etc, etc, etc...
Dreadnought Carrier...defined as a Carrier by having 2x Hangars.
Dreadnought Cruiser...defined as a Cruiser by having access to Command Arrays.
Dreadnought Warbird...defined as a Warbird by utilizing Singularity Cores.
If somebody says they fly a Dreadnought...it doesn't say what they're flying.
Ships aren't classified by their abilities. They're classified by their titles or what the STO team 'officially' calls them. Dreadnoughts are whatever ship is labeled "Dreadnought". Just as the Armitage is both a Heavy Escort and a Carrier, the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier is both a Dreadnought and a Carrier.
My full explanation as to why it's like that is here.
I apologize, I worded that wrong. Any ship whose title contains the word "Dreadnought" is a Dreadnought, adjective or not.
But it says nothing about the ship that the person is flying - without further saying what type of ship the person is flying.
Tom: I fly a Dreadnought.
Jerry: Er...? A Cruiser? A Warbird? A Carrier?
It's not a Cruiser Dreadnought, not a Warbird Dreadnought, nor a Carrier Dreadnought.
They are not different types of Dreadnoughts...the Dreadnought Cruiser is a different type of Cruiser, the Dreadnought Warbird is a different type of Warbird, and the Dreadnought Carrier is a different type of Carrier.
Saying that one flies a Dreadnought - they might as well be saying they fly a Heavy.
Tom: I fly a Heavy.
Jerry: Er...? Heavy Cruiser? Mirror Universe Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Advanced Heavy Cruiser? Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Heavy Escort? Heavy Escort Refit? Heavy Escort Carrier? Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier? Heavy Destroyer? Fleet Heavy Destroyer? Heavy Bird-of-Prey? Heavy Raptor? Mirror Universe Heavy Raptor? Fleet Heavy Raptor? Heavy Battle Cruiser? Mirror Universe Heavy Battle Cruiser? Fleet Heavy Battle Cruiser? Heavy Warbird? Heavy Warbird Refit? Heavy Warbird Retrofit? Fleet Heavy Warbird Retrofit? Heavy Raider?
Dreadnought...it's an adjective. Light, Heavy, Advanced, Tactical, etc, etc, etc. Adjectives that are applied to various types of ships.
And things are not simply what they are because that's what they are called...outside of something like the Aquarius Destroyer, you generally see that the name goes hand in hand with a set of defining elements. Whether Cryptic decides that they need to add a new Escort or they add a new ship they decide to call an Escort, that ship will have defining characteristics which belong to an Escort. They would not add a new ship with an Ensign Tac, Cmdr/LCdr Eng, Lt/Lt Sci...with 2 Tac/5 Eng/3 Sci consoles...6 turn...and call it an Escort.
Which is one of the reasons there's the general hubbub about the Aquarius Destroyer...since it's obviously not a Destroyer. The Ody's pet is called an Escort. They should have simply called it an Escort to match that name...
Dreadnought alone doesn't communicate the type of ship somebody is flying. Dreadnought Cruiser does. Even saying Gal-X Dread communicates that the person is in a Dreadnought Cruiser. Jem Dread communicates that they're in a Dreadnought Carrier. Both are simply shorthand...however, Dread or Dreadnought alone communicates nothing. Might as well say they're flying a Heavy...er...a Heavy what?
Comments
*Reads blog* New Fleet Patrol Escort!
*Reads forum thread*
Way to get a guys hopes up, then crush them under your heel...
This game suddenly became less fun.
Tempted to buy it just for the 2409 material, though disappointed I cant have the proper black/white pattern/contrast on the other sister ships.
It's obsolete in that "it's not sold anymore".
Beyond the new gimmicks the new patrol escort has, there is nothing that makes the old FPE anything but "no longer obtainable". It's still the tough, reliable escort in contrast to the glass cannon Defiant and the squishy magical MVAE.
I'd like a discount or *something* for having used the FPE for a while. 2-FSM-off discount for the Fleet Refit? I'm not sure.
Some sort of reward for having used this ship for so long, basically.
Also, whats up with the impulse engines on the pylons? That just looks like a bad idea.
When we ever see a Klingon BoP, Raptor or a KDF alien align Escort/Destroyer with 5 Tactical Consoles or 5 Fore Weapons?... thats when Targs grow wings and fly...
You know I find it redundant if also ridiculous about the fact when does the KDF get this or that. For crying out LOUD the KDF after the Breen Frigate was released in Q's last Winter Wonderland showed the perks for getting "Flanking" bonuses that now the Raider Class ships also have the same "Flanking" bonuses now as well. What more does the KDF want Sweet Tea and Fried Chicken? Oh wait, wait, even better. Lets also have a big House Reunion and bang heads with one another over Bloodwine, and slander insults at one another over outrageous honor and fight to the death. BRILLIANT!
Growl for me oh Bony Ridged Microbrain One will you?
The factions want parity in ship design, both numerically and otherwise. Great rendition of your Kirk-like impersonation there!!
I hope you don't mind I pictured you with a disco-ball and party-popper to add to your dazzle. :rolleyes:
PS. If you had an iota understanding of the mechanics of the game you would know that flanking bonus offers zip in comparison to the ship builds being discuss. Where the one is a given, allowing you to leverage substantial builds and DPS off it, the other is entirely situational on a completed outdated model from Season 2.
Christ ... the new Fleet Patrol Escort trumps the JHAS.
Anyway, got sidetracked, I know. That said, however, I just wish there was a new ship I would be willing to buy that multiple characters could benefit from. All these ships that have consoles that are exclusive only to x ship is a deal killer for me, regardless of faction, because I like to mix things up and not have everyone use the exact same thing. It's why I tend to buy more ships that have universal consoles... and ironically they're usually much cheaper purchases.
OK, so I bought it, tried it and... YES! Escort of my dreams! Thanks again, Cryptic.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Okay first things first,
"Growl for me oh Bony Microbrain One." THAT'S Q MO CAPITAIN. BRILLIANT!
First demerit on your "So called" expertise on Star Trek quotes and impersonations,
Now on to the second hand of nature itself.
Flanking bonus means more than zip when it comes to the Raider Class on the KDF side, and why? BECAUSE I OWN SEVERAL BRILLIANT! When a person cloaks and they decloak and fire that can count as bonus to your "Critical Severity". And why you may ask? Wait for it...........BECAUSE IT COUNTS AS AN AMBUSH. ALSO BRILLIANT DRKFRONTIERS. Wow already the odds are really stacking up against you already as a Captain on the forums.
Third, my personal favorite,
If you read the POST there Einstein, and allow me to act that more properly out there for you, ~Rolls Eyes~ you would find that he was complaining why in fact that the FED's get the revised update for a Patrol Escort. In all honesty I would think it is right the FED side get a ship such as this. Well known fact KDF usually has a better advantage in PVP with their ships when built right on the KDF side. Including if those ships are "wolfpacked" Raiders operating as a team. Then to add to the equation you have the Romulan side as well that could side either be KDF or even FED as well. And may I NOTE FOR THE RECORD! Raiders and all Romulan ships have a Battle Cloak which in turn working as a team is a TOTAL GAME CHANGER. When you take into account coming out of cloak gives a major bonus to ambush which in turn also factors into DPS, and CRITS is the PROCS, PERKS, and all the QUARKS are all done right as well.
Oh and PS: FYQE if you need help understanding that. It's, FOR YOUR QUALITY ENTERTAINMENT! I know much about game mechanics, how builds, procs, and even stats and skills as well as traits, plus the right modules, right doffs, and yes even consules done right can factor into a ships performance, bonuses from those builds, plus the way the game mechanics both in PVP, Warzones, and even STF's all factor differently. But then again you ARE a Captain and thus in turn would be an expert on such things DrkFrontiers. BRILLIANT!
Wait, wait, wait. Did my eyes deceive me? Orangeitis, EPIC FAIL!
There are actually three types of what you could classify HEAVY ESCORT CARRIERS. The first yes is the Armitage the FED Tact Carrier, then on the Jem'Hadar side yes you have both the Dreadnaught Carrier......and also the Heavy Escort Carrier. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE! Stay around for the next so many minutes and I will throw in THE ROMULAN AR'KIF TACTICAL CARRIER. BRILLIANT ORANGEITIS must be your Grapefruit day today.
Think he probably meant that there aren't any dedicated KDF HECs. The Jem'hadar vessels are lock box ships so he's probably not counting those as they aren't obtainable as account unlocks via the c-store for a set price. The Romulan vessels are also only available to KDF allied Rom toons, not plain KDF toons.
Again flawed in the information.
First off:
The KDF needing a dedicated HEC? Let me outline this you have the Flight Deck Carriers which of course yes might not have the tactical side to favor in both ships. Still they carry favoritism toward the science and the engineering side as well. This being said they're support ships. Which would explain this. And as far as the Romulan Ar'kif goes, NO it is not just EXCLUSIVE to the KDF side. The Ar'kif Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit is a C Store ship that is playable to the Romulan's either if they are allied to either FED or KDF. The Ar'kif is NOT only exclusive to FED or KDF it IS however exclusive to the Romulan side regardless of what side the Romulan allies with.
Second off:
He DID note that in fact there is TWO only TWO types of Tactical Carriers. The Armitage HEC, the Jem'Hadar HEC, and yet yes on the Romulan side the Ar'kif Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit. They are in fact Tactical favored ships, carry a hanger bay. So yes they fit into the same category.
Third and final:
When it comes to the KDF they have a very great Order of Battle with the type of ships that they have lined up. It makes me laugh so hard how the KDF side always whines that when the FEDS come out with a ship "OH NO EVERYTHING IS OUT OF BALANCE!" Again WRONG! If anything the most OPed ship on the PVP side is a Scimitar, although I can also beg to differ there are other ships out there as well that built right could compete but factually yes the Scimitar is in fact very OPed and badass. And the best part is that is a Romulan ship you find on both the FED and KDF as well and why? Because Romulans can decide to ally with either FED or KDF. So for the KDF wanting to see a HEC on their side? Why really need it with all the styles of gameplay in PVP that the KDF have at their disposal every new FED ship Cryptic comes out with makes them drool. Know the ship, know the build, and know your playing style. Simple!
what is out of balance is the attention devs have to both the faction. How many ships have had feds in the last 3 years? how many ship the kdf? look at the store: how many ships have feds, how many kdf?
Everytime I try to persuade someone to play kdf, the answer I have is "I do not like it, kdf have a few old ships and no attention by devs". It can be wrong, but if so... why the general perception of kdf is "a lost faction"?
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
How silly of you, you know very well the KDF isn't allow to ask for balance, bug fixes that have plagued the faction for years, updates or for another unique ship (who's uniqueness will eventually just be given away in the form on non C-store payment item to the feds) its only been 2+ years since the last one. Its like the KDF just got it yesterday, you should be thankful. Not to mention the new fleet kar'fi which is unobtainable to about 50+ % of the players.
KDF raiders got flanking bonus, and the feds ONLY got a redesigned ESD, fleet Dreadnought, new skins, new escort, galaxy bundle..
Man you got some nerve to ask for attention and equality. :P
Your Ramming Speed III deals 242658 (243540) Kinetic Damage (Critical) to you.
You know. I'd LOVE to see the T5 raptors revisited like this new fed ship.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
yeah, it has a extra fused gun, but probably "will force us" to go with one type of energy wich isin't that awsome after all.
it has 5 tactical consoles instead of 4 , but it has -1 engenier console that i use for a universal console, so it kinda makes it like another ship that jugles consoles arround, and i don't see a real incentive.
if it had the slot layout from the fleet patrol escort, wich i consider to be the minimal to be interested, then it would be cool.
the art looks cool
1. Discount for fleet ship.
If you want the fleet version for more than one char, you can save big by spending 2500 Zen on Z-store ship + 500 Zen per character instead of 2500 Zen per character.
2. Special console.
I just one-shot killed a Tethys Dreadnought with it. 'Nuff said.
The Ar'kif is a Tactical Carrier Warbird. It's a Carrier, just like the HECs, but it's a Tactical Warbird, not a Heavy Escort. And the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier is a Dreadnought, not a Heavy Escort. The Jem'Hadar already has their HEC, and it's illogical to label their Dreadnought as one too.
No need to get emotional on this matter, by the way.
No, I meant what I said. Some posters are giving their own labels onto ships, and the other posters around here might not know what they're even talking about.
KDFs will probably never get a Heavy Escort Carrier because the Klingons don't have any playable Escorts. The closest I'd guess that they might get is a Heavy Raptor Carrier, and that I think would push it. The existing Heavy Raptor models don't look beefy enough to house fighters, IMO.
Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say that there were only two types of "Tactical Carriers", I pointed out that there are only two types of "Heavy Escort Carriers". The two terms are not synonymous.
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You misread what I posted. I was saying that the Ar'kif is only available to KDF allied Romulans and not KDF standard toons, meaning toons such as Klingons, Gorn, Orions, KDF Alien etc. I wasn't meaning it wasn't available to Romulans allied with Feds, just that it can only be flown by Romulans and therefore is not a KDF ship it's a Romulan ship.
I also wasn't complaining, I was trying to clear up the difference between KDF ships and Romulan ships/lockbox ships.
My apologies, I was merely trying to support your point and clarify that the ships mentioned weren't actually KDF dedicated ships, but were in fact Romulan ships or lockbox ships.
The only thing that really bugs me about all of this is the fact that we've got 57 pages into this thread and there hasn't been a single Dev response to explain why they've taken this action on this ship instead of treating it the same way as they did for previous ship updates.
Honestly, I think it was less about the Patrol Escort itself and more about the devs not wanting ships with matching configurations. The Fleet Saber has an almost identical configuration to the old Fleet Maelstrom, aside from one Ensign universal and a point in turn rate. With the Patrol Escort refitted, now the two ships are both their own thing.
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Regardless, the difference is irrelevant. If the people you're talking to don't know what you mean, you should either clarify or use definitions that are already established. What counts here is communication.
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None of the Warbirds have it.
Of the Escorts/Escort Carriers/Destroyers/Warships/Attack Ships/etc - the only one I remember not having it (from frequently complaining about it in the past) was the JHEC. The Corvette has a separate +Defense mechanic.
Technically, it's not a Dreadnought. It's a Carrier. Dreadnought is a modifier, creating a subtype - rather than an explicit type in of itself. It's along the lines of Light, Heavy, Assault, Star, etc, etc, etc...
Dreadnought Carrier...defined as a Carrier by having 2x Hangars.
Dreadnought Cruiser...defined as a Cruiser by having access to Command Arrays.
Dreadnought Warbird...defined as a Warbird by utilizing Singularity Cores.
If somebody says they fly a Dreadnought...it doesn't say what they're flying.
My full explanation as to why it's like that is here.
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There is no ship labeled Dreadnought. Simple as that...
There are Dreadnought Carriers, Dreadnought Cruisers, and Dreadnought Warbirds...types of Carriers, types of Cruisers, and types of Warbirds.
It's an adjective...
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But it says nothing about the ship that the person is flying - without further saying what type of ship the person is flying.
Tom: I fly a Dreadnought.
Jerry: Er...? A Cruiser? A Warbird? A Carrier?
It's not a Cruiser Dreadnought, not a Warbird Dreadnought, nor a Carrier Dreadnought.
They are not different types of Dreadnoughts...the Dreadnought Cruiser is a different type of Cruiser, the Dreadnought Warbird is a different type of Warbird, and the Dreadnought Carrier is a different type of Carrier.
Saying that one flies a Dreadnought - they might as well be saying they fly a Heavy.
Tom: I fly a Heavy.
Jerry: Er...? Heavy Cruiser? Mirror Universe Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Advanced Heavy Cruiser? Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit? Heavy Escort? Heavy Escort Refit? Heavy Escort Carrier? Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier? Heavy Destroyer? Fleet Heavy Destroyer? Heavy Bird-of-Prey? Heavy Raptor? Mirror Universe Heavy Raptor? Fleet Heavy Raptor? Heavy Battle Cruiser? Mirror Universe Heavy Battle Cruiser? Fleet Heavy Battle Cruiser? Heavy Warbird? Heavy Warbird Refit? Heavy Warbird Retrofit? Fleet Heavy Warbird Retrofit? Heavy Raider?
Dreadnought...it's an adjective. Light, Heavy, Advanced, Tactical, etc, etc, etc. Adjectives that are applied to various types of ships.
And things are not simply what they are because that's what they are called...outside of something like the Aquarius Destroyer, you generally see that the name goes hand in hand with a set of defining elements. Whether Cryptic decides that they need to add a new Escort or they add a new ship they decide to call an Escort, that ship will have defining characteristics which belong to an Escort. They would not add a new ship with an Ensign Tac, Cmdr/LCdr Eng, Lt/Lt Sci...with 2 Tac/5 Eng/3 Sci consoles...6 turn...and call it an Escort.
Which is one of the reasons there's the general hubbub about the Aquarius Destroyer...since it's obviously not a Destroyer. The Ody's pet is called an Escort. They should have simply called it an Escort to match that name...
edit: It goes to what you said...
Dreadnought alone doesn't communicate the type of ship somebody is flying. Dreadnought Cruiser does. Even saying Gal-X Dread communicates that the person is in a Dreadnought Cruiser. Jem Dread communicates that they're in a Dreadnought Carrier. Both are simply shorthand...however, Dread or Dreadnought alone communicates nothing. Might as well say they're flying a Heavy...er...a Heavy what?