That might be true if we the players have created and labeled them. But when you are the one looking at a thing that is already created and labeled, the logical approach is to go by the labels first, lest inaccurate stereotypes arise.
Did Cryptic make something, then label it? Honestly I haven't a clue how they create their ships. But it's irrelevant in this case. STO's ships are exactly what Cryptic wants them to be.
"Dreadnought" is a ship type because it's a common word in the titles of several ships. And yes, "Heavy ships" technically are as well.
Matching is irrelevant in the case of what they're named. It's less confusing to us that most ship types do happen to match their functions, but sometimes they don't. And in those cases, we get instances like your argument, where 'if they don't match, it must be because the ship types aren't really a ship type at all'.
This is a prime example of a strawman. You're asserting that ships MUST have similar stats to count as a ship type. Again, the ship types are defined with text, not configuration. I gave you my explanation(nd repeatedly pointed this out), but you're ignoring it and insisting that stats are the most important.
I've already refuted your point. You repeating it doesn't help your cause.
You yelling and getting emotional doesn't make you more right.
Um okay what is your definition of Emotional, clearly is about as far as you stating you refuting a statement is the same as repeating yourself like a broken record.
Hey your dissatisfaction is my quality entertainment in this intellectual gamers debate. Again this debate is like you trying to say that there is a word that rhymes with orange. BRILLIANT!
No again you fail to comprehend that I try to compress all three as one worded entity.
No, nobody is failing to comprehend what you're trying to do...folks are just telling you that you're doing it wrong. You're failing to comprehend that.
TBTW, do you find it funny how much orange is arguing with you the same point he's arguing against me...? It's one of those things where we should probably both just walk away from the discussion instead of feeding him...
If you feel the need to accuse me of trolling, I'd much rather you just not respond to me. I'm sitting here trying to be as honest as I possibly can, and with as much respect and dignity as I can give to everyone else. I'd prefer not being the target of personal attacks.
No, you haven't. Simply repeating your failure to do so over and over doesn't change that.
Well if you're assuming that, there isn't a point for me to continue. I've tried being reasonable and helpful, and gave everyone the benefit of the doubt in case I was wrong, because if I found out that I had the wrong viewpoint, I wouldn't hesitate to switch my stance.
It feels like everyone that puts up arms like that is trying to make me out to be an opponent instead.
Assault Cruiser -> Assault Cruiser Refit
Star Cruiser -> Odyssey Star Cruisers
Advanced Escort -> Multi-Vector Advanced Escort
Patrol Escort -> the new Patrol Escort Refit
Reconnaissance Science Vessel -> Multi-Mission Explorers
So will we be seeing...
Deep Space Science Vessel -> Deep Space Science Vessel Refit?
Hegh'ta Heavy Bird-of-Prey -> Hegh'ta Heavy Bird-of-Prey Refit? K'vort?
Qin Heavy Raptor -> Qin Heavy Raptor Refit? Hangar?
Negh'Var Heavy Battle Cruiser -> Negh'Var Heavy Battle Cruiser Refit? It's been mentioned again recently...
Okay, seeing a lot of semantics being thrown around for no better reason than to argue about them.
Please stop.
And if you think somebody is trolling you, here is the correct response to that:
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Again this debate is like you trying to say that there is a word that rhymes with orange. BRILLIANT!
Off topic, but to quote an LA Times interview with Eminem:
People say that the word orange doesn't rhyme with anything ... I can think of a lot of things that rhyme with orange," said Eminem, seated behind a mixing board at his private recording studio, before effortlessly conjuring an on the spot rap about putting an orange, four-inch, door hinge in storage" and having "porridge with Geo-rge.
Now technically these are mostly half rhymes, but you have to give hip-hop credit for solving the age-old riddle of what rhymes with orange...
As far as the rest... ships with the Escort classification get +10% bonus defense. If a ship doesn't get that +10% it's not an Escort. Similarly, the "Breen Cruiser" Q offered you in the Winter Event was not... it did not have Cruiser Commands and was, in actuality a Destroyer. It was called a cruiser in the Event Rep project, but that did not change what the ship had been classified as by the devs.
As soon as I have this list compiled and finalized I will share it with you all. I know how important that is and want to provide you all with that information. I can tell you this right now though: The Assault Cruiser is a consider a cruiser (will get all commands) and the Chel' Grett is considered a destroyer, so it will not get cruiser commands.
Regards,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
So even if something is called something in-game (the project you queued to get the Chel Grett was "Claim a Breen Cruiser"), it may be considered something else entirely in actual classification. Basically, we can debate what something is or isn't, but it's the devs that actually make the decision whether we agree or not.
Making enough noise might get something changed or clarified, but that's still their call whether to respond or just chuckle at us :P
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
No, nobody is failing to comprehend what you're trying to do...folks are just telling you that you're doing it wrong. You're failing to comprehend that.
Again Virusdancer,
I am not doing anything wrong here. What I am doing however is stating fact in regards to opinion and also fact with the game mechanics, the game-play, and also fact to the sources. What indeed seems to be your profession is to drag on a subject as long as you can to prolong such a debate. Which honestly I have all the time to continue it on as well. But again what I am doing is wrong? I haven't yet received otherwise.
Similarly, the "Breen Cruiser" Q offered you in the Winter Event was not... it did not have Cruiser Commands and was, in actuality a Destroyer. It was called a cruiser in the Event Rep project, but that did not change what the ship had been classified as by the devs.
Was it a Destroyer? Interesting. Though it seems like they're trying to make "Warship" a classification all it's own. What with the Nicor being labeled a Warship as well as having similar stats.
Though the DSDs are apparently all Multi-Mission Science Vessels like the Vesta line. *shrug*
As far as the rest... ships with the Escort classification get +10% bonus defense. If a ship doesn't get that +10% it's not an Escort. Similarly, the "Breen Cruiser" Q offered you in the Winter Event was not... it did not have Cruiser Commands and was, in actuality a Destroyer. It was called a cruiser in the Event Rep project, but that did not change what the ship had been classified as by the devs.
So even if something is called something in-game (the project you queued to get the Chel Grett was "Claim a Breen Cruiser"), it may be considered something else entirely in actual classification. Basically, we can debate what something is or isn't, but it's the devs that actually make the decision whether we agree or not.
There have been several issues with names in various rep projects though.
Heck, open up Task Force Omega - scroll down for the Omega Shield. Project calls it a Regenerative while the hover shows it as a standard Shield. Stats actually work out as a Regenerative. Though I know more than a few folks that wished it was actually a standard Shield.
There have been several issues with names in various rep projects though.
Heck, open up Task Force Omega - scroll down for the Omega Shield. Project calls it a Regenerative while the hover shows it as a standard Shield. Stats actually work out as a Regenerative. Though I know more than a few folks that wished it was actually a standard Shield.
Pretty much. The whole "rose by any other name" thing kind of flies out the window with the way things are classified or simply labeled in-game. Honestly, I'd love it if they ran through the ship lineup of the various factions and added a classification note... though the Romulan Warbirds at least don't need it since they are all, oddly enough, Warbirds.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
You know I find it redundant if also ridiculous about the fact when does the KDF get this or that. For crying out LOUD the KDF after the Breen Frigate was released in Q's last Winter Wonderland showed the perks for getting "Flanking" bonuses that now the Raider Class ships also have the same "Flanking" bonuses now as well. What more does the KDF want Sweet Tea and Fried Chicken? Oh wait, wait, even better. Lets also have a big House Reunion and bang heads with one another over Bloodwine, and slander insults at one another over outrageous honor and fight to the death. BRILLIANT!
Growl for me oh Bony Ridged Microbrain One will you?
Far as i see, u crying about further inbalance between the Federation and Klingon Factions in terms for Tier 5 ships, while i on the other hand asked for balance for years which we all know how it turned out with Cryptic's Pro-Federation attitude...
Oh, WOW... ''FLANKING'' Ability on BoP's... the magical ''I WIN'' button for the KDF, which is good in PvE with 25% dmg bonus against pre-programmed AI's with predicted patterns while it been nerf'd down to 8% dmg against players in PvP which is not truly effective in practice against players who have the experience to counter it... If u don't know what i mean then obviously i can see why u cry about it... is it cause u keep dying all the time without making any tactics to counter it?... besides is the secondary deflector coming out soon on all Sci Wessels ? this will effect Fed Sci classes than on KDF ones, since the KDF have very few Sci ships compare to the masses of Fed Sci ships in Tier 5.:P
Hmm... what did the KDF got in the past few years in Tier 5 Ships since the Bortas/Oddy came out?... Mogh and 3x KDF Dyson Destroyer types... What did the Feds got during that time... 3x Kurmari's, 3x Vesta's, 3x Fed Dyson Destroyers, Avenger, Patrol Escort, Heavy Escort Carrier, Atrox, Assault Cruiser Refit, revamp Gal-X, etc... yeah. nice balance...
Funny how u said that playing as a Romulan ''Sub-faction'' or use a Foreign Alien NON-KDF align Lock Box ships balance out the KDF faction... The wholepoint of playing a different Factions is to play a different species/races and to use indigenous/align faction ships that have it's own unique styles.
Of course u find it redundant that KDF wants this and that... For crying out LOUD u don't want any balance in this game just like the lead STO dev's of Cryptic. The KDF player base is asking for a Faction that should be on or near par to the Federation which in terms of a flexible line up of end game ships with it's own unique style and not some carbon copies of Fed ones in terms of stats that's been going about lately which is the Mogh & Dyson Ships... there are other KDF align Races that Cryptic have not made any new T5 ships for them since b4 the game went F2P such as the Orions, Nausicaans, Leatheans, Gorn, Ferasans, etc... and when Cryptic did nothing with them, they made the Adorian Kumari's and Caitian Atrox for Feds...
If u want to called this post KDF crying then sure call it that, but keep urself in check what crying is... i ask for a balance for both KDF and Fed factions to be on par with each other, while u crying about further inbalance to make the Feds be more far better and promoting cross faction TRIBBLE to the KDF that not unique in any ways to any Faction, and also i find it funny u whine and cry about a ''Flanking'' ability which i read from the hand full of posts u made lately which tell's me u have no idea how to countered it, well then again u are a mediocore PvE Fed player with no real experience...
This gonna be my only reply post to u, u seem like one of those ignorant ppl that knows nothing how any MMO game works, so i'm not gonna try convincing why the KDF should be on par with Feds to u further.
Prrrr... for me will u, don't forget to go back to ur Caitian litter box... :P
As far as an in universe war perspective goes, yes, having Romulan ships operating in the Klingon Defense Force is a perfectly acceptable statement that the Klingons are balanced out by Romulan ships. From a player perspective, my Klingon Captain cannot use a Romulan Warbird of any stripe or type. As a Klingon faction in an MMO with no access to Romulan equipment, no Romulan ship helps me one lick.
actually, if you look at the ship it does not say "U.S.S. Tempest" it says USS Nellore. they were wanting to know the registry of the Tempest, not the posterchild for the class
Also, whats up with the impulse engines on the pylons? That just looks like a bad idea.
Actually, impulse engines on the pylons are canon and old news. Don't believe me? Look at Voyager. It started with the Intrepid class.
I think that it's also used on the Sovereign class, as that would be the only way that the Stardrive section could have impulse power in the separated configuration. Yes, John Eaves designed the Sovereign with Saucer Separation. And looking at the Tempest, the nacelle's details line up with the Sovereign's.
2. Special console.
I just one-shot killed a Tethys Dreadnought with it. 'Nuff said.
Bro are you serious? :eek:
Man, that's no joke. :cool:
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I have to say that the Tempest Refit design is the closest that Cryptic Studios has come to capturing the true essence of starship design of the Star Trek universe. The Tempest Refit FEELS like it would be seen in a Star Trek series. It is in line with the design lineage. I like it immensely.
The Maelstrom Refit, on the other hand, is yet ANOTHER departure of trek design. Take it BACK to the drawing board with all the other Craptic designs (except the Tempest)
I have to say that the Tempest Refit design is the closest that Cryptic Studios has come to capturing the true essence of starship design of the Star Trek universe. The Tempest Refit FEELS like it would be seen in a Star Trek series. It is in line with the design lineage. I like it immensely.
The Maelstrom Refit, on the other hand, is yet ANOTHER departure of trek design. Take it BACK to the drawing board with all the other Craptic designs (except the Tempest)
Yeah, the Maelstrom is craptastic. Not only is it a departure from normal Trek design, but it doesn't even look good in a Defiant sort of way... It's UGLY.
Yeah, the Maelstrom is craptastic. Not only is it a departure from normal Trek design, but it doesn't even look good in a Defiant sort of way... It's UGLY.
To each their own...to me, the maelstrom has a "I'm gonna kill you with lots of guns" look to it.
And I personally don't like the tempest design.
I suppose I know what I like. No need to conform to a more star trek design just for that single fact
My wallet is now locked to craptic ive payed for lots of ships respecs keys n costumes. But with all the nerfs n now ships u have with locked weopons plus a massive fail in fixing bugs i dont see why i should put any more cash to this game.
If someone alreay owns the fleet patrol escort, and buys the Patrol Escort Refit, IMO their Fleet Partrol Escort, should automatically be upgraded to a Fleet Patrol Escort Refit. such an event would even be canon. like the 'Refit' Enterprise NCC-1701 seen in TMP, and in wrath of Khan.
Star Treking, across the universe. Only going forward because we can't find reverse...
I have to say that the Tempest Refit design is the closest that Cryptic Studios has come to capturing the true essence of starship design of the Star Trek universe. The Tempest Refit FEELS like it would be seen in a Star Trek series. It is in line with the design lineage. I like it immensely.
The Maelstrom Refit, on the other hand, is yet ANOTHER departure of trek design. Take it BACK to the drawing board with all the other Craptic designs (except the Tempest)
they Odessey cruisers are very trek universe IMO. In the trek universe, the galaxy class was once the largest vessel Starfleet produced. so it makes sense that they might produce an even larger vessel eventually
Star Treking, across the universe. Only going forward because we can't find reverse...
they Odessey cruisers are very trek universe IMO. In the trek universe, the galaxy class was once the largest vessel Starfleet produced. so it makes sense that they might produce an even larger vessel eventually
The odyssey has inspired every 2409-2410 ship Refit or Retrofit or whatever that has come out since its creation. It has influenced a new style of Starfleet design that STO will always use.
Comments
Um okay what is your definition of Emotional, clearly is about as far as you stating you refuting a statement is the same as repeating yourself like a broken record.
Hey your dissatisfaction is my quality entertainment in this intellectual gamers debate. Again this debate is like you trying to say that there is a word that rhymes with orange. BRILLIANT!
No, nobody is failing to comprehend what you're trying to do...folks are just telling you that you're doing it wrong. You're failing to comprehend that.
Well if you're assuming that, there isn't a point for me to continue. I've tried being reasonable and helpful, and gave everyone the benefit of the doubt in case I was wrong, because if I found out that I had the wrong viewpoint, I wouldn't hesitate to switch my stance.
It feels like everyone that puts up arms like that is trying to make me out to be an opponent instead.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Assault Cruiser -> Assault Cruiser Refit
Star Cruiser -> Odyssey Star Cruisers
Advanced Escort -> Multi-Vector Advanced Escort
Patrol Escort -> the new Patrol Escort Refit
Reconnaissance Science Vessel -> Multi-Mission Explorers
So will we be seeing...
Deep Space Science Vessel -> Deep Space Science Vessel Refit?
Hegh'ta Heavy Bird-of-Prey -> Hegh'ta Heavy Bird-of-Prey Refit? K'vort?
Qin Heavy Raptor -> Qin Heavy Raptor Refit? Hangar?
Negh'Var Heavy Battle Cruiser -> Negh'Var Heavy Battle Cruiser Refit? It's been mentioned again recently...
Please stop.
And if you think somebody is trolling you, here is the correct response to that:
And if you're confused about what trolling is, please read:
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Off topic, but to quote an LA Times interview with Eminem:
People say that the word orange doesn't rhyme with anything ... I can think of a lot of things that rhyme with orange," said Eminem, seated behind a mixing board at his private recording studio, before effortlessly conjuring an on the spot rap about putting an orange, four-inch, door hinge in storage" and having "porridge with Geo-rge.
Now technically these are mostly half rhymes, but you have to give hip-hop credit for solving the age-old riddle of what rhymes with orange...
As far as the rest... ships with the Escort classification get +10% bonus defense. If a ship doesn't get that +10% it's not an Escort. Similarly, the "Breen Cruiser" Q offered you in the Winter Event was not... it did not have Cruiser Commands and was, in actuality a Destroyer. It was called a cruiser in the Event Rep project, but that did not change what the ship had been classified as by the devs.
So even if something is called something in-game (the project you queued to get the Chel Grett was "Claim a Breen Cruiser"), it may be considered something else entirely in actual classification. Basically, we can debate what something is or isn't, but it's the devs that actually make the decision whether we agree or not.
Making enough noise might get something changed or clarified, but that's still their call whether to respond or just chuckle at us :P
Again Virusdancer,
I am not doing anything wrong here. What I am doing however is stating fact in regards to opinion and also fact with the game mechanics, the game-play, and also fact to the sources. What indeed seems to be your profession is to drag on a subject as long as you can to prolong such a debate. Which honestly I have all the time to continue it on as well. But again what I am doing is wrong? I haven't yet received otherwise.
Though the DSDs are apparently all Multi-Mission Science Vessels like the Vesta line. *shrug*
Edit: Well I guess that settles that then! =3
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
There have been several issues with names in various rep projects though.
Heck, open up Task Force Omega - scroll down for the Omega Shield. Project calls it a Regenerative while the hover shows it as a standard Shield. Stats actually work out as a Regenerative. Though I know more than a few folks that wished it was actually a standard Shield.
Pretty much. The whole "rose by any other name" thing kind of flies out the window with the way things are classified or simply labeled in-game. Honestly, I'd love it if they ran through the ship lineup of the various factions and added a classification note... though the Romulan Warbirds at least don't need it since they are all, oddly enough, Warbirds.
Oh sorry, wrong thread
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Far as i see, u crying about further inbalance between the Federation and Klingon Factions in terms for Tier 5 ships, while i on the other hand asked for balance for years which we all know how it turned out with Cryptic's Pro-Federation attitude...
Oh, WOW... ''FLANKING'' Ability
Hmm... what did the KDF got in the past few years in Tier 5 Ships since the Bortas/Oddy came out?... Mogh and 3x KDF Dyson Destroyer types... What did the Feds got during that time... 3x Kurmari's, 3x Vesta's, 3x Fed Dyson Destroyers, Avenger, Patrol Escort, Heavy Escort Carrier, Atrox, Assault Cruiser Refit, revamp Gal-X, etc... yeah. nice balance...
Funny how u said that playing as a Romulan ''Sub-faction'' or use a Foreign Alien NON-KDF align Lock Box ships balance out the KDF faction... The wholepoint of playing a different Factions is to play a different species/races and to use indigenous/align faction ships that have it's own unique styles.
Of course u find it redundant that KDF wants this and that... For crying out LOUD u don't want any balance in this game just like the lead STO dev's of Cryptic. The KDF player base is asking for a Faction that should be on or near par to the Federation which in terms of a flexible line up of end game ships with it's own unique style and not some carbon copies of Fed ones in terms of stats that's been going about lately which is the Mogh & Dyson Ships... there are other KDF align Races that Cryptic have not made any new T5 ships for them since b4 the game went F2P such as the Orions, Nausicaans, Leatheans, Gorn, Ferasans, etc... and when Cryptic did nothing with them, they made the Adorian Kumari's and Caitian Atrox for Feds...
If u want to called this post KDF crying then sure call it that, but keep urself in check what crying is... i ask for a balance for both KDF and Fed factions to be on par with each other, while u crying about further inbalance to make the Feds be more far better and promoting cross faction TRIBBLE to the KDF that not unique in any ways to any Faction, and also i find it funny u whine and cry about a ''Flanking'' ability which i read from the hand full of posts u made lately which tell's me u have no idea how to countered it, well then again u are a mediocore PvE Fed player with no real experience...
This gonna be my only reply post to u, u seem like one of those ignorant ppl that knows nothing how any MMO game works, so i'm not gonna try convincing why the KDF should be on par with Feds to u further.
Prrrr... for me will u, don't forget to go back to ur Caitian litter box... :P
As far as an in universe war perspective goes, yes, having Romulan ships operating in the Klingon Defense Force is a perfectly acceptable statement that the Klingons are balanced out by Romulan ships. From a player perspective, my Klingon Captain cannot use a Romulan Warbird of any stripe or type. As a Klingon faction in an MMO with no access to Romulan equipment, no Romulan ship helps me one lick.
Second, Hegh'ta refit or Fleet ship? Yes please.
Isn't the Tempest docked in Earth Spacedock? Actually, impulse engines on the pylons are canon and old news. Don't believe me? Look at Voyager. It started with the Intrepid class.
I think that it's also used on the Sovereign class, as that would be the only way that the Stardrive section could have impulse power in the separated configuration. Yes, John Eaves designed the Sovereign with Saucer Separation. And looking at the Tempest, the nacelle's details line up with the Sovereign's.
Bro are you serious? :eek:
Man, that's no joke. :cool:
The Maelstrom Refit, on the other hand, is yet ANOTHER departure of trek design. Take it BACK to the drawing board with all the other Craptic designs (except the Tempest)
Yeah, the Maelstrom is craptastic. Not only is it a departure from normal Trek design, but it doesn't even look good in a Defiant sort of way... It's UGLY.
To each their own...to me, the maelstrom has a "I'm gonna kill you with lots of guns" look to it.
And I personally don't like the tempest design.
I suppose I know what I like. No need to conform to a more star trek design just for that single fact
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
they Odessey cruisers are very trek universe IMO. In the trek universe, the galaxy class was once the largest vessel Starfleet produced. so it makes sense that they might produce an even larger vessel eventually