Y'know what else has all of the same skin options as the old one and the same write up in the fleet shipyard? The Assault Cruiser Refit. And like the Patrol Escort, it has a BOFF layout that is vastly different.
Yes, but that's a c-store ship vs Fleet ship. The argument is about old fleet ship vs new fleet ship. Different kettle of fish.
It has a different name: Fleet Patrol Escort Refit.
And it is a different ship.
Your old Fleet Patrol Escort still exists, nobody took it away.
You can ask for a free upgrade but dont act like its the same ship and all the existing instances should be replaced. Its a different ship, different class, different stats from the old one.
How many retired ships are people flying right now?
I don't care too much about FPER/FPE since i play KDF-only now.
How many fleet ships that costs 2k zen, were completly removed from future acquiring?
How many retired ships are people flying right now?
I don't care too much about FPER/FPE since i play KDF-only now.
How many fleet ships that costs 2k zen, were completly removed from the game?
None, but the point is when other ships got similar buffs they were applied to the old ones which had already been bought. Not so with the Fpe!
Now that this has happened, I can definitely see the Nebby being treated the same way.
How many retired ships are people flying right now?
I don't care too much about FPER/FPE since i play KDF-only now.
How many fleet ships that costs 2k zen, were completly removed from the game?
It wasnt removed, it just isn't for sale anymore.
Lots of ships get steamrolled by powercreep. How many cruisers were obsoleted by Avenger release?
Lots of ships get steamrolled by powercreep. How many cruisers were obsoleted by Avenger release?
Not that many actually. In fact, I can't think of any that were made obsolete that weren't already obsolete.
Fleet excel? Just as viable as it was before, if not more so with the buff to team powers like eng team.
Fleet sovvie? Again, just as viable as before.
Fleet ambo? Different role, but still puts out a decent amount of dps as well as being more flexible.
Tac oddy? Again, different role but still puts out a decent amount of dps as well as being more flexible.
Fleet cheyenne? Already obsolete when it first came out. Obsoleted by fleet excelsior and sovvy
Fleet galaxy? Different role, but sucked from day 1.
This is a silly argument, its a refit, I own a Tac Retrofit, I'm not complaining that I can't have the refit Sao Palo class, they are different, if they took my retofit off the market and replaced it with a V2 I would also still own the retrofit I paid for not the V2. In real life they don't say "hey we have a new ford model, its called the same as the old one lets give everyone a free upgrade because we don't sell the old one anymore"!
I agree however the cost of the ships and the fact we have to buy N different ships is ridiculous. The current cost of this ship if you want to buy it is £21.50. Seriously that much for a single ship that is not drastically more useful than many other ships.
The rinse repeat upgrading of ships is a marketing scam.
Perhaps if they allowed upgrades to existing purchases like the fleet system on a broader range of ships. It wouldn't come across as a pure money grabbing tactic. The only thing that makes it easier is that the dil exchange is there and alot of us play this game for free.
This is a silly argument, its a refit, I own a Tac Retrofit, I'm not complaining that I can't have the refit Sao Palo class, they are different, if they took my retofit off the market and replaced it with a V2 I would also still own the retrofit I paid for not the V2. In real life they don't say "hey we have a new ford model, its called the same as the old one lets give everyone a free upgrade because we don't sell the old one anymore"!
It's been done before, so why all of a sudden the change in tack? Oh wait! It's money grubbing.
That said, I'm not after the appearance or skin options of the new one, lovely though it is.
The rinse repeat upgrading of ships is a marketing scam.
You hit it on the head right there. That is the reason I don't like this nor the precedent it sets.
Not that many actually. In fact, I can't think of any that were made obsolete that weren't already obsolete.
Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit used to have a niche as the fastest Fed cruiser with 8 turn-rate but was instantly obsoleted by Avenger with 9 turn-rate (plus all the other stuff it brought).
Other cruisers had some niche they could fill, but Avenger made them all pointless. Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit used to have a niche as the fastest Fed cruiser with 8 turn-rate but was instantly obsoleted by Avenger with 9 turn-rate (plus all the other stuff).
Pointless? No. The niches are still there, the avenger just has its own niche. Yes it is a little more agile and yes it does have that 5/3 weapon layout, but it's a little more fragile and with a layout that means it has to sacrifice even more toughness if it wants to really max its dps with something like a2b.
Was the avenger different? Oh yes. Was it more powerful? In some things yes. But did it blow absolutely every preceding fleet cruiser out of the water? No. Could it do everything other fleet cruisers could do? No.
Precedent. The gal-x and the arkif both received buffs that were applied retroactively to all extant examples of the gal-x and the relevant arkif variants and rightly so. Granted, the changes weren't a full boff and console layout replacement but the principle is the same.
Could you imagine the rage there would have been if cryptic/pwe turned around and pulled what they've done now, back then?
If it was good enough for those two, then why isn't it good enough for the FPE?
Go to the graphic options and set lightning quality to high. That is the only setting that can cause character textures to lose "depth".
As for loss of frames per second, I am noticing it in the Dyson Sphere space. I never noticed any loss of fps outside 20 man raids before, something has changed and for the worse.
HA!
Worked, thank you very much. But my Earth looks like Mogo from the Green Lanterns now not that I am complaining
I see ursus logic behind the no swap. I do think, given the lineage of the ships, and that buying the fleet version was akin to buying fleet level costumes, that owners of the old FPE should have access to the new skin, if not the new ship's abilities.
Take off your broken Valdore console and those 5 SROs and battlecloak bonuses and lets see what you got
wait you still got those elite drones that do 3k dps
and a singularity core with those nifty bonuses
The Scimitar is Soooooooooooo OP only those with no skill at all need one
indeed
Same time I see so many scimi blowing up in pvp or pve, looks like having a ship that much powerfull turn people into lazy rom
anyway that new ship is.... boff... (french will catch it)
I'm glad they're making new fed ships, since I'm mostly kdf player at least they are breaking less stuff on kdf side.
Although I might be wrong since they can update a door on fed side and broke a space mission or an ability on kdf side at the same time... I still found amazing how game stuff are breaking when updating / adding completely separate stuff elsewhere
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HOUSE OF BORG
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Precedent. The gal-x and the arkif both received buffs that were applied retroactively to all extant examples of the gal-x and the relevant arkif variants and rightly so. Granted, the changes weren't a full boff and console layout replacement but the principle is the same.
Could you imagine the rage there would have been if cryptic/pwe turned around and pulled what they've done now, back then?
If it was good enough for those two, then why isn't it good enough for the FPE?
"Good enough?" What was good enough for them was a straightforward upgrade that kept the function of the new GX's consistent with the old.
This adds a new 5 console slot version of an existing ship skin (partially at least) at the expense of that ships original role. Now, I would have certainly appreciated it if cryptic handed me an upgraded version of the FPE (tail gun, a bit more health, that sort of thing) but this is a different ship altogether. Its beefy, but swapping out that 4th eng console from a ship that had a mildly generalist Boff layout for a 5th tac slot and a VERY generalized boff layout should have a significant effect on what gets put on this ship and what uses people put it to (if they're thinking which of course isn't always the case.) Though its almost undoubtedly better (given STO's very limited criteria), it would not have been appropriate to overwrite the original with the refit considering this transition.
Don't think of this in any similar terms as to the Galaxy X revamp. This is simply a new ship making use of old customization bits that, at the same time, throws a bone over to current Patrol Escort owners if they decide to pick up this ship as well. Its a nice way of adding more to things in more places to STO (which hopefully sets a new precedent. We could always use more types of ships but it doesn't pay to consistently cordon off the new ship pieces with every C-store release. Look at the Avenger, it's a duck and there isn't any hope of making it look any less like a duck because it doesn't have access to a range of appropriate customization options. On the other hand if they designed it as a retrofit of a Star Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, or some other ship we might not be stuck with a Federation battle bird.)
I see ursus logic behind the no swap. I do think, given the lineage of the ships, and that buying the fleet version was akin to buying fleet level costumes, that owners of the old FPE should have access to the new skin, if not the new ship's abilities.
Well consider the plight of other fleet ships with a high(er) level retrofit. Fleet modules don't unlock the money skin (though they probably should in fairness. Modules aren't cheap.)
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Don't think of this in any similar terms as tp the Galaxy X revamp. This is simply a new ship making use of old customization bits that, at the same time, throws a bone over to current Patrol Escort owners if they decide to pick up this ship as well. Its a nice way of adding more to things in more places to STO.
Exactly. The Patrol Escort Refit is to the Patrol Escort as the Assault Cruiser Refit is to the Assault Cruiser. I'm starting to see the understanding pattern here as to what's going on now: It would be stupid to have both the Fleet Patrol Escort and the Fleet Patrol Escort Refit in the same slot, so something had to go. And that something had to be the Patrol Escort. And with good reason, too: when people join fleets, they usually don't bother with the Tier I and Tier II ships. All the good ships start with Tier III
As it stands, There are still many Federation Fleet ships that require 4 Fleet Ship Modules and don't give you bonuses if you have an earlier one that wasn't bought from the C-Store. Does this mean we'll get Star Cruiser Refits? DSSV Refits and RecSV Refits? The return of the Support Cruiser Retrofit (and the Kamarag Retrofit)? Perhaps the Heavy Cruiser Retrofit, Escort Retrofit and Research Science Vessel Retrofit will finally become C-Store ships?
Who knows? We need to wait, see, and try to simmer down when it happens.
Wonder if anyone else has had the same issue as me...
First, my Fleet Patrol Escort - which was the first fleet ship I ever bought - unexpectedly disappeared from my ship list... I wasn't expecting it to have been replaced with the new one from what other people had posted previously, but I didn't think I'd lose it completely...
Then I bought the Patrol Escort Refit from the Zen store as I wanted the skin, but when I then bought the Fleet version, it charged me the full five fleet modules, even though the blog post said it would reduce to one...
I can already foresee a huge price drop in the Nicor now, since this one will beat the Nicor in almost everything, including a possible Lt. Cmdr. Science setup with GW1 and TBR1, and A2B with the Lt. Cmdr. Engi default setup.
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Nice looking ship with some awesome abilities. but....
What the hell Cryptic!
it's an escort! with TWO lieutenant commander boff slots? with one being universal, and one an eng slot! not only is this ship release completely random, but you managed to create a new level of OPness for the escorts in this game with a single ship.
I can see this being a lot of fun in PVP though, I can also see it being the ship that will now easily out DPS any escort in game. ( I think that's right? with that aft DHC, 5 tac slots, and crazed boff seating? )
Nice looking ship with some awesome abilities. but....
What the hell Cryptic!
it's an escort! with TWO lieutenant commander boff slots? with one being universal, and one an eng slot! not only is this ship release completely random, but you managed to create a new level of OPness for the escorts in this game with a single ship.
One word: nicor.
The sky fell weeks ago.
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"Good enough?" What was good enough for them was a straightforward upgrade that kept the function of the new GX's consistent with the old.
It was a revamp, less extreme than the one we've seen with the FPE admittedly, but a revamp for a ship that people have paid and worked for nonetheless. What kind of rage would there have been if cryptic had pulled what they have pulled today, when they revamped the gal-x?
It was a buff, as you imply.
This adds a new 5 console slot version of an existing ship skin (partially at least) at the expense of that ships original role.
Console wise, it swaps one eng console for that 5th tac console. Not a huge change. The tail gun is novel, but hardly a game changer. The only big change is the boff layout.
Now, I would have certainly appreciated it if cryptic handed me an upgraded version of the FPE (tail gun, a bit more health, that sort of thing) but this is a different ship altogether.
I'd appreciate it as well, but it is not that different a ship. The only really big change is the boff layout.
Its beefy, but swapping out that 4th eng console from a ship that had a mildly generalist Boff layout for a 5th tac slot and a VERY generalized boff layout should have a significant effect on what gets put on this ship and what uses people put it to (if they're thinking which of course isn't always the case.) Though its almost undoubtedly better (given STO's very limited criteria), it would not have been appropriate to overwrite the original with the refit considering this transition.
Don't think of this in any similar terms as to the Galaxy X revamp. This is simply a new ship making use of old customization bits that, at the same time, throws a bone over to current Patrol Escort owners if they decide to pick up this ship as well. Its a nice way of adding more to things in more places to STO (which hopefully sets a new precedent.
I disagree. As I have said numerous times already in this thread, if it was a flat out "new" ship then why did they remove the old one and give its name to the new one? And holy hell how can this be a good precedent? There have been calls to revamp some of the lower end fleet boats for a while now, in the vein of the galaxy revamp but more extreme. Cryptic answered that call by removing the FPE from the shipyard and giving its place to something that only differs to it in boff and console layout as well as being able to use skin parts from the new C-store boat.
What's next, fleet nebby gets a revamp, but only if you are willing to pay for it? That is the precedent we have here and it runs completely contrary to the precedent of the gal-x revamp.
The gal-x revamp was a buff to a ship that needed it, as is what happened to the FPE. It is a buff to a ship that does rather need it. So why the sudden change in MO?
We could always use more types of ships but it doesn't pay to consistently cordon off the new ship pieces with every C-store release. Look at the Avenger, it's a duck and there isn't any hope of making it look any less like a duck because it doesn't have access to a range of appropriate customization options. On the other hand if they designed it as a retrofit of a Star Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, or some other ship we might not be stuck with a Federation battle bird.)
I can't argue there. The Avenger is a downright ugly boat.
There is a silver lining to this cloud however. It means that cryptic may well be giving some attention to the older boats.
This is what I don't understand about cryptic logic for the boff seating.
ok lets make it more ENGY by removing an ensign slot and putting in a LTC universal slot.????????
they wanted the refit version of the advanced escort more sciency so they change the LTC tac slot to a LTC sci slot. this makes sense to me.
but by the logic with this new refit PE...would sure be nice to remove my ensign tac slot and change the lieutenant eng slot to a lieutenant commander uni slot on my fleet advanced escort.
because you know, it would make it more sciency!
or not because I would slap an eng boff in there with EP2S 1 and 2 with directed energy modulation 3 and using my 6th doff slot would slap on a doff that increases weapon energy drain resistance when DEM is used in addition to the new warp cores that increase power regeneration. and in the end would have a ship un-necessacerily over powered, just like the tempest. or I am just angry about this whole 2 uni LTC slot deal atm with an AFT DHC on an escort.
Comments
Yes, but that's a c-store ship vs Fleet ship. The argument is about old fleet ship vs new fleet ship. Different kettle of fish.
How many retired ships are people flying right now?
I don't care too much about FPER/FPE since i play KDF-only now.
How many fleet ships that costs 2k zen, were completly removed from future acquiring?
Please. Tais toi and go to sleep. If we can't drill the truth into your head just save us the trouble of smashing our heads against the wall.
None, but the point is when other ships got similar buffs they were applied to the old ones which had already been bought. Not so with the Fpe!
Now that this has happened, I can definitely see the Nebby being treated the same way.
It wasnt removed, it just isn't for sale anymore.
Lots of ships get steamrolled by powercreep. How many cruisers were obsoleted by Avenger release?
True; but those ship you can stil purchase
Not that many actually. In fact, I can't think of any that were made obsolete that weren't already obsolete.
Fleet excel? Just as viable as it was before, if not more so with the buff to team powers like eng team.
Fleet sovvie? Again, just as viable as before.
Fleet ambo? Different role, but still puts out a decent amount of dps as well as being more flexible.
Tac oddy? Again, different role but still puts out a decent amount of dps as well as being more flexible.
Fleet cheyenne? Already obsolete when it first came out. Obsoleted by fleet excelsior and sovvy
Fleet galaxy? Different role, but sucked from day 1.
I agree however the cost of the ships and the fact we have to buy N different ships is ridiculous. The current cost of this ship if you want to buy it is £21.50. Seriously that much for a single ship that is not drastically more useful than many other ships.
The rinse repeat upgrading of ships is a marketing scam.
Perhaps if they allowed upgrades to existing purchases like the fleet system on a broader range of ships. It wouldn't come across as a pure money grabbing tactic. The only thing that makes it easier is that the dil exchange is there and alot of us play this game for free.
It's been done before, so why all of a sudden the change in tack? Oh wait! It's money grubbing.
That said, I'm not after the appearance or skin options of the new one, lovely though it is.
You hit it on the head right there. That is the reason I don't like this nor the precedent it sets.
Pointless? No. The niches are still there, the avenger just has its own niche. Yes it is a little more agile and yes it does have that 5/3 weapon layout, but it's a little more fragile and with a layout that means it has to sacrifice even more toughness if it wants to really max its dps with something like a2b.
Was the avenger different? Oh yes. Was it more powerful? In some things yes. But did it blow absolutely every preceding fleet cruiser out of the water? No. Could it do everything other fleet cruisers could do? No.
Your point?
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Woah. Hey there, hot stuff.
Oh! Yes, um. Of course. New escort. Blah blah blah.
Precedent. The gal-x and the arkif both received buffs that were applied retroactively to all extant examples of the gal-x and the relevant arkif variants and rightly so. Granted, the changes weren't a full boff and console layout replacement but the principle is the same.
Could you imagine the rage there would have been if cryptic/pwe turned around and pulled what they've done now, back then?
If it was good enough for those two, then why isn't it good enough for the FPE?
HA!
Worked, thank you very much. But my Earth looks like Mogo from the Green Lanterns now
Thank you very much for your help
Roms haven't been out a year yet, give it time.
indeed
Same time I see so many scimi blowing up in pvp or pve, looks like having a ship that much powerfull turn people into lazy rom
anyway that new ship is.... boff... (french will catch it)
I'm glad they're making new fed ships, since I'm mostly kdf player at least they are breaking less stuff on kdf side.
Although I might be wrong since they can update a door on fed side and broke a space mission or an ability on kdf side at the same time... I still found amazing how game stuff are breaking when updating / adding completely separate stuff elsewhere
"Good enough?" What was good enough for them was a straightforward upgrade that kept the function of the new GX's consistent with the old.
This adds a new 5 console slot version of an existing ship skin (partially at least) at the expense of that ships original role. Now, I would have certainly appreciated it if cryptic handed me an upgraded version of the FPE (tail gun, a bit more health, that sort of thing) but this is a different ship altogether. Its beefy, but swapping out that 4th eng console from a ship that had a mildly generalist Boff layout for a 5th tac slot and a VERY generalized boff layout should have a significant effect on what gets put on this ship and what uses people put it to (if they're thinking which of course isn't always the case.) Though its almost undoubtedly better (given STO's very limited criteria), it would not have been appropriate to overwrite the original with the refit considering this transition.
Don't think of this in any similar terms as to the Galaxy X revamp. This is simply a new ship making use of old customization bits that, at the same time, throws a bone over to current Patrol Escort owners if they decide to pick up this ship as well. Its a nice way of adding more to things in more places to STO (which hopefully sets a new precedent. We could always use more types of ships but it doesn't pay to consistently cordon off the new ship pieces with every C-store release. Look at the Avenger, it's a duck and there isn't any hope of making it look any less like a duck because it doesn't have access to a range of appropriate customization options. On the other hand if they designed it as a retrofit of a Star Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, or some other ship we might not be stuck with a Federation battle bird.)
Well consider the plight of other fleet ships with a high(er) level retrofit. Fleet modules don't unlock the money skin (though they probably should in fairness. Modules aren't cheap.)
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Exactly. The Patrol Escort Refit is to the Patrol Escort as the Assault Cruiser Refit is to the Assault Cruiser. I'm starting to see the understanding pattern here as to what's going on now: It would be stupid to have both the Fleet Patrol Escort and the Fleet Patrol Escort Refit in the same slot, so something had to go. And that something had to be the Patrol Escort. And with good reason, too: when people join fleets, they usually don't bother with the Tier I and Tier II ships. All the good ships start with Tier III
As it stands, There are still many Federation Fleet ships that require 4 Fleet Ship Modules and don't give you bonuses if you have an earlier one that wasn't bought from the C-Store. Does this mean we'll get Star Cruiser Refits? DSSV Refits and RecSV Refits? The return of the Support Cruiser Retrofit (and the Kamarag Retrofit)? Perhaps the Heavy Cruiser Retrofit, Escort Retrofit and Research Science Vessel Retrofit will finally become C-Store ships?
Who knows? We need to wait, see, and try to simmer down when it happens.
First, my Fleet Patrol Escort - which was the first fleet ship I ever bought - unexpectedly disappeared from my ship list... I wasn't expecting it to have been replaced with the new one from what other people had posted previously, but I didn't think I'd lose it completely...
Then I bought the Patrol Escort Refit from the Zen store as I wanted the skin, but when I then bought the Fleet version, it charged me the full five fleet modules, even though the blog post said it would reduce to one...
All in all, a very expensive day
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
What the hell Cryptic!
it's an escort! with TWO lieutenant commander boff slots? with one being universal, and one an eng slot! not only is this ship release completely random, but you managed to create a new level of OPness for the escorts in this game with a single ship.
I can see this being a lot of fun in PVP though, I can also see it being the ship that will now easily out DPS any escort in game. ( I think that's right? with that aft DHC, 5 tac slots, and crazed boff seating? )
One word: nicor.
The sky fell weeks ago.
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It was a revamp, less extreme than the one we've seen with the FPE admittedly, but a revamp for a ship that people have paid and worked for nonetheless. What kind of rage would there have been if cryptic had pulled what they have pulled today, when they revamped the gal-x?
It was a buff, as you imply.
Console wise, it swaps one eng console for that 5th tac console. Not a huge change. The tail gun is novel, but hardly a game changer. The only big change is the boff layout.
I'd appreciate it as well, but it is not that different a ship. The only really big change is the boff layout.
I disagree. As I have said numerous times already in this thread, if it was a flat out "new" ship then why did they remove the old one and give its name to the new one? And holy hell how can this be a good precedent? There have been calls to revamp some of the lower end fleet boats for a while now, in the vein of the galaxy revamp but more extreme. Cryptic answered that call by removing the FPE from the shipyard and giving its place to something that only differs to it in boff and console layout as well as being able to use skin parts from the new C-store boat.
What's next, fleet nebby gets a revamp, but only if you are willing to pay for it? That is the precedent we have here and it runs completely contrary to the precedent of the gal-x revamp.
The gal-x revamp was a buff to a ship that needed it, as is what happened to the FPE. It is a buff to a ship that does rather need it. So why the sudden change in MO?
I can't argue there. The Avenger is a downright ugly boat.
There is a silver lining to this cloud however. It means that cryptic may well be giving some attention to the older boats.
ok lets make it more ENGY by removing an ensign slot and putting in a LTC universal slot.????????
they wanted the refit version of the advanced escort more sciency so they change the LTC tac slot to a LTC sci slot. this makes sense to me.
but by the logic with this new refit PE...would sure be nice to remove my ensign tac slot and change the lieutenant eng slot to a lieutenant commander uni slot on my fleet advanced escort.
because you know, it would make it more sciency!
or not because I would slap an eng boff in there with EP2S 1 and 2 with directed energy modulation 3 and using my 6th doff slot would slap on a doff that increases weapon energy drain resistance when DEM is used in addition to the new warp cores that increase power regeneration. and in the end would have a ship un-necessacerily over powered, just like the tempest. or I am just angry about this whole 2 uni LTC slot deal atm with an AFT DHC on an escort.
Thats one more example how cryptic squeezes our money out of us ! Nothing more ! Its betrayal ! Nothing less !
Especially as a pvp type player !