test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Borg STFs win Undine Fail

jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
Been watching the Que numbers morning noon and night

More people play ISE than all of the new undine content combined add in KASE and its even worse.............just add up the numbers

I know cryptic can see these metric's

I dont think players like mind numbing respawns of undine

I dont think players like poor rewards verses the time invested in a mission and the undine missions are WAY too long for the tiny reward you get

There are a lot of other problems with the undine missions as well making them unpopular

undine content ............Fail until improved
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Post edited by jellico1 on
«134

Comments

  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »
    Been watching the Que numbers morning noon and night

    More people play ISE than all of the new undine content combined add in KASE and its even worse.............just add up the numbers

    I know cryptic can see these metric's

    I dont think players like mind numbing respawns of undine

    I dont think players like poor rewards verses the time invested in a mission and the undine missions are WAY too long for the tiny reward you get

    There are a lot of other problems with the undine missions as well making them unpopular

    undine content ............Fail until improved

    It's only a fail, because a large majority of the player base, cannot think outside of the targeting reticle.

    Anything that requires some thought besides mindless destruction of countless enemies, obviously is to much for some people to compute in brain power.

    So they continuously fail, and inevitably give up.
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    More like players=fail.

    You cannot just zerg the Undine like you can Borg.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
  • martinisonmartinison Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I like the new missions, but will still do the borg stf's more for one simple reason. That is my primary source of dilithium, period. The new missions reward none, so I run them once a day to get the marks I need to run the rep system and then move onto doing borg stf's multiple times to fill up my dilithium quota. I think most players do the same. The only way to get people to play missions as much as the borg stf's is to even out the amount of dilithium rewarded per minute played in the mission.
  • johngazmanjohngazman Member Posts: 2,826 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »
    More people play ISE than all of the new undine content combined

    That's because ISE is easy.
    You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
    StarTrekFirstContactBorgBattleonetumblr_lln3v6QoT31qzrtqe.gif
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »
    Been watching the Que numbers morning noon and night

    More people play ISE than all of the new undine content combined add in KASE and its even worse.............just add up the numbers

    I know cryptic can see these metric's

    I dont think players like mind numbing respawns of undine

    I dont think players like poor rewards verses the time invested in a mission and the undine missions are WAY too long for the tiny reward you get

    There are a lot of other problems with the undine missions as well making them unpopular

    undine content ............Fail until improved

    People with limited time to grind do what they are used to.

    Undine missions are artificially TOO LONG.

    They are TOO spammy.

    And bottom line the Undine rep is just a MAJOR MEH

    Add that with the fact that the current rep changes provide no incentive to do the Undine system - outside a tiny few phaser/disruptor builds - it's just a waste of time.

    I am doing it on 1 toon of 30:eek:
  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    People with limited time to grind do what they are used to.

    Undine missions are artificially TOO LONG.

    They are TOO spammy.

    And bottom line the Undine rep is just a MAJOR MEH

    Add that with the fact that the current rep changes provide no incentive to do the Undine system - outside a tiny few phaser/disruptor builds - it's just a waste of time.

    I am doing it on 1 toon of 30:eek:

    Too long? I guess missions are bad if they take more than 5 minutes to beat.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    martinison wrote: »
    I like the new missions, but will still do the borg stf's more for one simple reason. That is my primary source of dilithium, period. The new missions reward none, so I run them once a day to get the marks I need to run the rep system and then move onto doing borg stf's multiple times to fill up my dilithium quota. I think most players do the same. The only way to get people to play missions as much as the borg stf's is to even out the amount of dilithium rewarded per minute played in the mission.

    This...

    Simple math:

    Even on elite I didn't get more then 40 marks out of Undine missions.
    75 on borg missions

    Even Elite Undine does not reward any dillithium.
    960 from borg missions.

    They take longer...
    Why again should we play them more then once a day for the package?

    Also I feel like those missions are not really polished yet.
    I mean having to adapt to some new tactics... of course thats part of the game... even part of the fun.
    But with the Kumari and the Fed allied scimitar there is CONSTANTLY something that keeps me from moving, be it one of those anomalies or some fluidic bubble TRIBBLE. It seems to much to me.
    The KDF chars at least can subspace jump out of there now and then.
  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I don't mind challenging content. But the rewards should reflect this increase in difficulty. The current rewards for Undine fleet actions are a little bit... underwhelming.
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    Too long? I guess missions are bad if they take more than 5 minutes to beat.

    Well yes and no.

    I am all for story missions that are long and content rich.

    I am not for repetitive and long - pew pew missions.

    plus the rewards are like 2/3 at most of the other missions that take 1/10th the time
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited April 2014
    johngazman wrote: »
    That's because ISE is easy.


    undine content is easy............................just spam BfaW

    next respawn...............................................BfaW

    3 or 4 cruisers doing this just melts the mobs

    its just so many respawns makes it easy boring and takes a long time
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • blakes7tvseriesblakes7tvseries Member Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Don't be so fast to judge players, if content is to complicated and not fun its Cryptic's fault.
    I have observed and received feedback from very experienced players that its not STF quality.
    The STF's have objectives combined with groups of enemies that make it fun.

    Undine Marks
    So if you agree with the OP run ground it's faster, easier, and much more fun than Undine space.
    download.jpg
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Don't be so fast to judge players, if content is to complicated and not fun its Cryptic's fault.
    I have observed and received feedback from very experienced players that its not STF quality.
    The STF's have objectives combined with groups of enemies that make it fun.

    Undine Marks
    So if you agree with the OP run ground it's faster, easier, and much more fun than Undine space.

    I did the Undine space battle zone - it was pretty decent with a lot of people active - good rewards - it does fool a few people that don't realise that if you want the big rewards - you have to WAIT after killing the planet killers for the Voth fleet to show up - then spend 5 min killing waves of Voth ships.

    That Voth 5 min forced thing after killing the 3 planet killers is a very irritating addition and should be removed imo.
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    Too long? I guess missions are bad if they take more than 5 minutes to beat.
    Well yes and no.

    I am all for story missions that are long and content rich.

    I am not for repetitive and long - pew pew missions.

    plus the rewards are like 2/3 at most of the other missions that take 1/10th the time

    Well I like long missions. Especially long team missions.
    But they should reward properly, something (more) that cryptic continuously fails to balance. If I get more out of 3,5 minutes infected then out of 45 minutes unidne assault... something is definitely off.
  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    not just new queue events dyson events are not rewarding to think 1 k ad for elite undine and dyson like stf got could fix this a bit
  • blakes7tvseriesblakes7tvseries Member Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The original STF grounds had the same format.

    Borg drones spawned and spawned until you took out the nodes.
    Then the next group did the same, two hours later most of your group left.

    The ground STFs were changed because people didn't like the respawns.
    It really looks like people don't like the space version either.
    download.jpg
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The original STF grounds had the same format.

    Borg drones respawned and respawned until you took out the nodes.
    Then the next group did the same, two hours later most of your group left.

    The ground STFs were changed because people didn't like the respawns.
    It really looks like people don't like the space version either.

    They didn't respawn, they just couldn't be killed and only were disabled and recovered until we killed the nodes.
  • blakes7tvseriesblakes7tvseries Member Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    They didn't respawn, they just couldn't be killed and only were disabled and recovered until we killed the nodes.

    My point is still the same no fun then, no fun in space now.
    download.jpg
  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    This...

    Simple math:

    Even on elite I didn't get more then 40 marks out of Undine missions.
    75 on borg missions

    Even Elite Undine does not reward any dillithium.
    960 from borg missions.

    They take longer...
    Why again should we play them more then once a day for the package?

    Also I feel like those missions are not really polished yet.
    I mean having to adapt to some new tactics... of course thats part of the game... even part of the fun.
    But with the Kumari and the Fed allied scimitar there is CONSTANTLY something that keeps me from moving, be it one of those anomalies or some fluidic bubble TRIBBLE. It seems to much to me.
    The KDF chars at least can subspace jump out of there now and then.



    Romulans that are in a Romulan ship have a free singularity jump that will get you out of it, and doesn't even use a console slot. It just won't put you behind the enemy you have targeted. This can be good if there is a swarm behind the enemy you have targeted. Also, adding power to engines might help with some builds, or having an engine battery. Though the batteries do have a long cool down.

    Even if you don't have an A2B build, it might be useful to have at least one of this skill, if you can give up something for it. The extra power it dumps into engines might help you pull out of their hold, at the same time increasing shield and weapons power to boot.
    Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
  • ashkrik23ashkrik23 Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »


    undine content is easy............................just spam BfaW

    next respawn...............................................BfaW

    3 or 4 cruisers doing this just melts the mobs

    its just so many respawns makes it easy boring and takes a long time

    Know why you keep having to respawn? It is because you think you can DPS everything down, you need heals and suppport.
    King of Lions rawr! Protect the wildlife of the world. Check out my foundry series Perfection and Scars of the Pride. arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1138650/ashkrik23s-foundry-missions
    ashkrik_by_lindale_ff-d65zc3i.png
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited April 2014
    Time invested should scale the reward for completition

    pretty simple stuff

    The cryptic team should play the missions themselves and add rewards accordingly

    Its a No Brainer

    and 1000 dilithium should be taken away from the 3 planet killers reward and put back into the zone flipping......thats where the work is at
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • umaekoumaeko Member Posts: 748 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I agree with the OP.

    I'll probably try it a few more times to grant it the benefit of the doubt, but the level of challenge offered borders on exercises in futility, and it feels pretty unrewarding. In a way, the Undine events are probably the most challenging in the game right now, but give TRIBBLE rewards compared to the Borg STFs.

    My romulan fleet ar'kif anti-proton dual heavy cannon build seems to have a hard time due to how mobile the Undine zergs are, my science characters cannot cluster the undine together efficiently with GravWell3 (with 150+ points in Graviton generators). The undine's swarming tactics just also happen to make it really hard to make an organized offensive against them; it eventually just devolves in a furball fight that doesn't seem to ever end.

    The only character I have enjoying a certain amount of success against Undine is my Fed Tac captain in her Fleet Avenger BFaW A2B build. Fire at Will deals rather handily with the way Undine try to spread out and overwhelm; furball or not, they will still die.
  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    razar2380 wrote: »
    Romulans that are in a Romulan ship have a free singularity jump that will get you out of it, and doesn't even use a console slot. It just won't put you behind the enemy you have targeted. This can be good if there is a swarm behind the enemy you have targeted. Also, adding power to engines might help with some builds, or having an engine battery. Though the batteries do have a long cool down.

    Even if you don't have an A2B build, it might be useful to have at least one of this skill, if you can give up something for it. The extra power it dumps into engines might help you pull out of their hold, at the same time increasing shield and weapons power to boot.

    Well I have an a2b odysee which is the ship working best in that instances.

    TBH I didn't think of the singularity jump yet... but I don't think it will help much. The console gets you behind your enemy... the sing. power jumps you somewhere, probably into another bubble... and probably not far away enough from that anomalies.
    But I'll try.

    And most of my ships have very high engine power... only my D'Kyr lacks in that area... I don't recognize a difference.
  • pwecangetlostpwecangetlost Member Posts: 538 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    BFaW cruiser builds seem to be the way forward with the Undine.

    But the main problem, as has been pointed out, is the rewards. I noticed this with the Romulan missions like Azure. The amounts of marks awarded and the absence of dilithium just make them far worse to do for the amount of time invested.
  • blakes7tvseriesblakes7tvseries Member Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The OP stated facts with numbers to back it up.
    I dont see where the OP asked for your opioion on how to do mission with mega DPS.
    Now all self declared elitist, if you really all that good and can do the mission with ease.
    Your saying your better and smarter than most players.
    So what's best for the community of people who are not at your level( that's what your saying)
    To keep a mission where only the best enjoy it or change it for average player who is looking for fun.



    Rewards
    Still don't see people doing this even it gives out uber rewards.
    The old original ground STFs did and people still quite and didn't do them.

    This thread needs to address the needs of the many that out weigh the needs of the few.
    download.jpg
  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Viscous Cycle is fun.

    Undine Assault is not fun.

    Undine Infiltration is fun, if you play with people who have brains and don't just quarantine everyone.

    In every case, the rewards are just too low. VCE and UAE give ~57 marks for a good run, while UIE gave, like 30? come on.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited April 2014
    In my fleet we could put together a team of all BfaW ships and roll thru the content as fast as it could be done

    it would still take a very long time because its Gated

    much longer than any STF

    However in a pug this isnt going to happen...We all know this already

    the number of undine need to be cut drastcally and beefed up

    undine should be much stronger than the borg

    Not weak Zerg's

    Normal shoud be set up for pugs..
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • st3a1th2st3a1th2 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I like the new missions myself, if all missions where go shot this then shot that and so on it would make everything the same it's good to have differences as it makes the game more interesting. However i must say lock box is stupid they should not be given out undine ships instead they should be engineered ships that represent the characteristics not an actual biological ship. They really should have thought about that for longer.
  • nyasayanyasaya Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    umaeko wrote: »
    GravWell3 (with 150+ points in Graviton generators).
    I like how the Undines GW is much stronger then ours. Even with evasive maneuver we can't get out. Funny watching everyone bunched up. Hahaha. :rolleyes:

    Cryptic, please buff GW3. Thank you.
    LEmWhkGA.gif
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The problem with most new content is that there is no real reward for completing it.

    At least the Borg STF's and the Crystaline Entity reward you with actual loot as well, and sometimes they are pretty good drops.

    The old grind for loot type mechanic really needs to be brought back, with drop only items that are good enough to be an incentive to grind.
    Its a formula that works real well, which is why the vast majority of MMO's use it.

    If people have a coveted rare drop to hunt down in addition to the rep, then the rep grind won't end up feeling as much of a chore, and will give people something else to think about than just leveling up.
  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Well I have an a2b odysee which is the ship working best in that instances.

    TBH I didn't think of the singularity jump yet... but I don't think it will help much. The console gets you behind your enemy... the sing. power jumps you somewhere, probably into another bubble... and probably not far away enough from that anomalies.
    But I'll try.

    And most of my ships have very high engine power... only my D'Kyr lacks in that area... I don't recognize a difference.


    That is true about the singularity jump. I did forget it could put you in one. Lol. To be honest, I use A2B now, even when I am running cannons on my Scimitar. And I am running it with beam arrays on my Breen raider from the winter event. Since I am hitting A2B so much, I don't have many problems with being pulled in, till their weapons knock my butt back into it after I get out. Lol.

    I got about 6km from one, and a group of the Undine kept hitting me till they knocked me back into it. Every time I pulled out, they would fly in front of me and start knocking me back into it. Though it was frustrating, it is good to see the AI do something intelligent, even if it was not intended. Lol.
    Leader of Elite Guardian Academy.Would you like to learn how to run a fleet? Would you like to know how to do ship builds (true budget as well as high end)?The join the Academy today!
Sign In or Register to comment.