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Borg STFs win Undine Fail

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  • gogereavergogereaver Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I do those on daily base (what else is there to do)...
    And there are only 2 conditions in which they fail.
    1. Idiot goes for the right generator and being there alone ensures the spheres getting there early
    2. Idiots (at least 2) attack the spheres instead of the generator.

    Both happens very very rarely at this point.

    1. lack of dps having noobs nobody has a gravity well. had this happen often. at least the entire stf isn't a lose.
    2. noobs not geared at all for the elite they get killed often become thin as paper. sometimes i can carry them solo sometimes not. this can be a total lose.

    those are the 2 i always seem to get. other times i get a good team and they blow threw it.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited April 2014
    They need polish

    With a electric industrial buffer :)
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • gogereavergogereaver Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    foundrelic wrote: »
    SHort answer?


    The pay is not commiserate to the work.


    Bump up the rewards OR bump down the spam.

    you hit it on the head there. clearing 3 lanes of utter spam is not worth what you get in the end.
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I can't be bothered to play the Undine reputation at the moment.

    1) Rep powers limited.
    2) No power from Undine is worth it for me, so why grind for them?
    3) I prefer fighting the Borg anyways.

    So there's that. :D
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

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  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    johngazman wrote: »
    That's because ISE is easy.

    And it pays well

    Which is the OP's point
  • phoeniciusphoenicius Member Posts: 762 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It's only a fail, because a large majority of the player base, cannot think outside of the targeting reticle.

    Anything that requires some thought besides mindless destruction of countless enemies, obviously is to much for some people to compute in brain power.

    So they continuously fail, and inevitably give up.
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    Too long? I guess missions are bad if they take more than 5 minutes to beat.
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    Know why you keep having to respawn? It is because you think you can DPS everything down, you need heals and suppport.

    funny how every thread you got the same trolls :) being contrarian for the sake of it.

    anyone who actually played the undine STFs, knows:

    1 - its incredibly easy
    2 - has ridiculously small rewards compared to everything else

    i mean if you got a proper setup, they can't even scratch you... even if you don't have proper setup, you won't die often either or at all, the only thing one has to watch out for are the heavy torps which slap you pretty hard... so pretty much the same as the borg in that regard, this is what requires one to think "outside the box?" lol.

    undine assault is artificially inflated much like the new mirror event, unlike the mirror event though, they're not giving 50k dil after 14 runs+480 dil and 50 fleet marks daily, so i expect its queue to die quite soon.

    vicious cycle on the other hand is fast if you zerg everything, and have one dude on maw cracking duty, still pointless to do it though, rewards are too low.
  • rickdias5500rickdias5500 Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It's only a fail, because a large majority of the player base, cannot think outside of the targeting reticle.

    Anything that requires some thought besides mindless destruction of countless enemies, obviously is to much for some people to compute in brain power.

    So they continuously fail, and inevitably give up.


    BINGO. Ninety nine percent of the people that are in the game now can only do that. Scene season 7 that is all they have to do. If you want that junk you have to follow the mob and the mob can only do infected space elite(well almost).
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I actually like the Undine assault.
    I mean I hate the mass on slow-down and push around stuff... but in general I find it entertaining.
    I would certainly do it more often... if it would reward properly.
    Not a fan of vicious cycle though...



    Well easy is relative.
    I mean... you don't die as fast as you can die in ISE.... but it still takes longer.
    Also even most of the dumpiest noobs can do ISE now since we are all trained like apes to do it.
    Outside of a very few runs where people seemed to TRIBBLE up the mission on purpose you never miss the optional in there with pugs.
    I actually thought about doing that with literally bandaged eyes... So from the current point... no its not easier.

    I went to Kerrat. I decided to attack a cube and some spheres which is simple. When I got close four cubes appeared out of one cube and a bunch of spheres and probes. Needless to say they was decimated.

    Then I went to the Undine Battlezone, only four ships took out one planet killer. I think two can take out a planet killer. Which is just as stupid. I can do Assimiliation really quick/

    Difficulty is a utter fail for Season 9. I really think they should not have buffed the reputation system and cap it at where it was post-Season 9.


    Now, it's pretty easy to steamroll content without doing any trait switching.
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    umaeko wrote: »
    I agree with the OP.

    I'll probably try it a few more times to grant it the benefit of the doubt, but the level of challenge offered borders on exercises in futility, and it feels pretty unrewarding. In a way, the Undine events are probably the most challenging in the game right now, but give TRIBBLE rewards compared to the Borg STFs.

    I like the Undine Ground mission from a gaming standpoint .
    The space ones ... -- I too agree with the OP but from a different standpoint :

    I loved the original long STF's .
    I hate the weak a$$ space versions now , but they still award well . The ground ones are still awesome .

    Point is , Cryptic seems to lack the ability to make STF's .
    They do stuff to make missions longer (like the Undine Space) , but ... no Gozer = no fun . :)


    - BTW OP , you do know that every time ppl praise the STF's , someone @ Cryptic get's just a little more upset ?
    Last STOked , Gecko almost had a mini-meltdown , and tried to erase the word "STF's" from the convo .

    Yeah , STF's are a reminder for Cryptic of other days , and they try to chip away at them again and again .
    Removed "Terradome" with a promise of a remaster ... -- now it's apparently never coming back .
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited April 2014
    All content should have the same dilithium reward i think

    Equal Rep rewards with no rep getting more marks than the other

    It would show what content is really good

    And what needs improving

    And bring back elachi Alert...current romulan content for marks is so bad its criminal
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »
    Been watching the Que numbers morning noon and night

    More people play ISE than all of the new undine content combined add in KASE and its even worse.............just add up the numbers

    I know cryptic can see these metric's

    I dont think players like mind numbing respawns of undine

    I dont think players like poor rewards verses the time invested in a mission and the undine missions are WAY too long for the tiny reward you get

    There are a lot of other problems with the undine missions as well making them unpopular

    undine content ............Fail until improved

    people like instant gratification, the devs created something that doesnt suit that aim, so people go back to a comform zone they like, doing speed runs on STF's.

    for me the answer is a simple one, the new 8472 content, is fine but the8472 planet killers over gornar, cardassia... that final bit is not worth the time on these 5 man missions, it takes a solid 5 to 10 minutes sitting there doing nothing but shooting and hoping you dont get shot at by a planet killer, buffing/debuffing arming abilities off cd while you pin-prick the damn thing to its death. the rewards you get from a speed run on the borg stuff, you could probably get 2 or 3 runs in by the time you finished that 5 man mission. now with VC providing more exploding ships then you would expect, the chances are people just dont want to know.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    People cry out for more content, and more challenge in said content.


    And then turn around and gripe because they can't breeze through it in five minutes or less.


    :rolleyes:
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    People cry out for more content, and more challenge in said content.


    And then turn around and gripe because they can't breeze through it in five minutes or less.


    :rolleyes:

    i dont complain for more content, got burned in the past for getting such a wish and find out it was perverted, long in the past. if and when content comes all i will do is comment and the rest can hit the fan for all i care, but that doesnt mean i dont want it around because one persons opinion doesnt mean jack all.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited April 2014
    people like instant gratification, the devs created something that doesnt suit that aim, so people go back to a comform zone they like, doing speed runs on STF's.

    for me the answer is a simple one, the new 8472 content, is fine but the8472 planet killers over gornar, cardassia... that final bit is not worth the time on these 5 man missions, it takes a solid 5 to 10 minutes sitting there doing nothing but shooting and hoping you dont get shot at by a planet killer, buffing/debuffing arming abilities off cd while you pin-prick the damn thing to its death. the rewards you get from a speed run on the borg stuff, you could probably get 2 or 3 runs in by the time you finished that 5 man mission. now with VC providing more exploding ships then you would expect, the chances are people just dont want to know.


    Well i agree with you but

    If it does take 2 or 3 times the effort/time to complete these new missons

    Should not the reward be 2000 to 2500 dilithium then

    I think so....................Then i would call them Fine too
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • kamiyama317kamiyama317 Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I got 250 Undine marks from about 1 hour in the Undine battleground in the Dyson sphere. That's probably going to be my chief source of Undine marks forever. I'm probably never going to do the Undine STF's.

    I do enjoy doing the Omega STF's and the Fleet STF's. I also enjoy doing the Vault, but no one ever queues up for that anymore.
  • pet1e86pet1e86 Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I got 250 Undine marks from about 1 hour in the Undine battleground in the Dyson sphere. That's probably going to be my chief source of Undine marks forever. I'm probably never going to do the Undine STF's.

    I do enjoy doing the Omega STF's and the Fleet STF's. I also enjoy doing the Vault, but no one ever queues up for that anymore.

    ^^^ Best way to get marks

    Undine STF time vs Reward is utter rubbish
  • mhirtescmhirtesc Member Posts: 581 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    ashkrik23 wrote: »
    More like players=fail.

    You cannot just zerg the Undine like you can Borg.

    I felt the same way during Mirror Invasion Event. 3/4 of the other players went straight for the pew-pew and totally ignored doing what REALLY mattered, which was opening the relays and closing the rifts. I had to keep from shouting "THIS ISN'T OLD-SCHOOL MIRROR YOU DOLTS!" over Team Chat.

    Now I get that same feel when trying to push the Singularity forward in Battlegrounds.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    mhirtesc wrote: »
    I felt the same way during Mirror Invasion Event. 3/4 of the other players went straight for the pew-pew and totally ignored doing what REALLY mattered, which was opening the relays and closing the rifts. I had to keep from shouting "THIS ISN'T OLD-SCHOOL MIRROR YOU DOLTS!" over Team Chat.

    Now I get that same feel when trying to push the Singularity forward in Battlegrounds.

    Really?

    I told my fleet mate that the WHOLE undine battlezone can be done with three and he said it can be done by ONE ship. So, Where is the challenge?

    Undine Battlezone = Beatable by a team of one to three ships
    Voth Battlezone = Litttle harder because of the dreadnoughts but still can blow everything up
    Borg = Laughable Joke

    Cryptic has dumb down the enemies so much I don't see them as a threat to any faction. The Borg should have adapted all factions abilities into their cubes and spheres.

    It's now just pew pew or blow the thing up game.

    No one asks for video because I don't have the time to waste setting it up.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    People cry out for more content, and more challenge in said content.


    And then turn around and gripe because they can't breeze through it in five minutes or less.


    :rolleyes:


    Content was answered but they remove content whenever they do that. So it's about the same content


    Challenge now thats laughing out loud.

    Hey the Assasimilation. mission. Put your team with 2 engineers and 1 science with XII tech with shield and turret generator at one spot (default radius). Let the Undine Boss come to you. Keep you distance and just shoot.

    Battle Strategies and Ambush tactics.

    Easy mission win! All the XI purple kit stuff you want!
  • blakes7tvseriesblakes7tvseries Member Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Undine Fails because it will not get you a new shiny.

    You cannot farm Dilithium in any of the Battle Zones or New Romulus(just through that one in).

    People prefered the STFs over other missions because they want new shinies.

    People are upset because they see it taking money or a much longer grind to get a new shiny.


    Exodus of Season Nine
    One day people will say was due to the unbalancing of rewards and grind, in favor of more grind
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  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I do like the new content, and am glad that they did it. However, since the Undine missions don't reward Dilithium, they are not my source of farming marks. I will still go back sometimes to play them, but that is all.

    It is like the episodes. I like a lot of them, but I will not replay them all day long, just to play them. The game has been setup as a Star Trek grind. I have no problem with it as long as there is new content to keep my interest when I get bored of the endless grind. For that reason, if I had to choose between a long mission that pugging almost guaranties a fail, and the rewards for completing it are small rewards of marks, I prefer the battle zone where I can not only get more marks in the same amount of time, but also Dilithium.

    Like I said, I ask for more missions and content, and am glad with what they gave us there. However, when it comes to the constant grind, I will do it as efficiently as possible, and I am sure many others will as well.
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  • revandarklighterrevandarklighter Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    gogereaver wrote: »
    1. lack of dps having noobs nobody has a gravity well. had this happen often. at least the entire stf isn't a lose.
    2. noobs not geared at all for the elite they get killed often become thin as paper. sometimes i can carry them solo sometimes not. this can be a total lose.

    those are the 2 i always seem to get. other times i get a good team and they blow threw it.

    Nope. Didn't see that in... A very long while. At all. In infected at least. In cure you can end up with a bad team on occasion, in kithomer it's a 50/50 chance to have an incompetent team.
    But infected works out like a charm about 99% I'm in there.
    people like instant gratification, the devs created something that doesnt suit that aim, so people go back to a comform zone they like, doing speed runs on STF's.

    for me the answer is a simple one, the new 8472 content, is fine but the8472 planet killers over gornar, cardassia... that final bit is not worth the time on these 5 man missions, it takes a solid 5 to 10 minutes sitting there doing nothing but shooting and hoping you dont get shot at by a planet killer, buffing/debuffing arming abilities off cd while you pin-prick the damn thing to its death. the rewards you get from a speed run on the borg stuff, you could probably get 2 or 3 runs in by the time you finished that 5 man mission. now with VC providing more exploding ships then you would expect, the chances are people just dont want to know.

    I'm really getting sick of that "instant gratification" non argument.
    It's not about that.
    People want a result from the time and energy invested into content. If the content does not produce any sufficient result they turn to content that does. It's that simple and it has nothing to do with "instant gratification".
  • tyranthraxisiityranthraxisii Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I'm still farming Borg rep on my characters since I took a decently long hiatus from the game right after the rep came out.
    I will add though that I feel like respeccing one of my captains to have APO, and PH to fight the space undine because their movement impairing ability is OP and super annoying. I have yet to do an undine ground stf so I have no comment on it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=TREQGl54BU8&feature=endscreen
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  • locutusofcactuslocutusofcactus Member Posts: 651 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »
    ...There are a lot of other problems with the undine missions as well making them unpopular...

    Like people objecting to killing babies for bonus points? (viscous cycle hatchlings)
  • ogitalogital Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Another reason for many players not doing the Undine missions is that after the changes they made to the graphics, they can not see their weapons firing. This is very annoying to say the least, and it affects a lot of players.
    I came to explore foreign Galaxies, and now I'm hunting Rabbits
  • phantomeightphantomeight Member Posts: 567 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    Add that with the fact that the current rep changes provide no incentive to do the Undine system - outside a tiny few phaser/disruptor builds - it's just a waste of time.

    ^^^^ This exactly. I used to do the reps for the powers and passives. I would grab certain consoles or a specific engine/shield/whatever here or there. Most of the new sets or rep gear have bonuses aimed at specific enemies... So... I generally stay with M.A.C.O....

    The little missions for completing rep tiers are just cut-scenes. Also, the space battlezones/adventure zones are just not as interesting as the ground ones. While I prefer space combat, for me it's been really hard to top New Romulus... Perhaps a space adventure zone or battlezone that is not in a huge dyson sphere. I still feel like I am alone in there. How about a busy space port with lots of structures around? Utopia Planitia could be a nice space adventure zone...

    I doubt any of the new rep passives will replace the ones I have selected already. Plus only picking 4 space and 4 ground out of 16 space and 16 ground is just too little.... And once again some passives now have bonuses for specific enemies. I'm sorry, but I am not about to go switching my traits around for each enemy type.. even with load outs (are they saved in the loadouts now?)


    So what incentive do I have to complete a rep now? None.

    ogital wrote: »
    Another reason for many players not doing the Undine missions is that after the changes they made to the graphics, they can not see their weapons firing. This is very annoying to say the least, and it affects a lot of players.

    ^^^ This too.

    While my machine is not a God Box... it has a Geforce 560Ti 2GB, a quad core Phenom II, 8GB of RAM running on Raptors in RAID 0, behind a fiber connection that is 40mbps down and 4 up. The final fire fight in the battle-zone is an absolute stutter fest with frame rates in the single digits.

    I run two monitors and have task manager and MSI after burner running on the second monitor. During each wave my CPU and GPU usage actually drop to 20% to 30% because of HUD lag or something that needs to be seriously optimized. I don't know how they passed that off as OK during development. I don't see how they don't suffer the same issues.
    join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
  • locutusofcactuslocutusofcactus Member Posts: 651 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    1: ISE = better rewards with a faster mission.

    2: Undine battlezone gives an alternative way to get marks.

    3: Peps are new and the missions are new so it's hard to get a PUG that knows what they are doing. Whereas ISE optional can be done with time to spare even with a PUG that hasn't figured out how to heal ship injuries. Like NWS, these missions will probably be run more often in private groups.

    4: Eye of Sauron rifts and space booger control abilities are frustrating when you are the only person on the team attempting to open maws.

    5: Also, the control abilities just flat out stink regardless.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited April 2014
    well to me ISE is more fun

    especially with pugs

    no great spam fest that lowers my Fr so its lags out my pc
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • notapwefannotapwefan Member Posts: 1,138 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I like undine challenges. You really can't go there and become a space Jackie Chan like you do in borg STFs.
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  • coldicephoenixcoldicephoenix Member Posts: 344 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The only thing I find annoying about the new missions are those bloody Undine TRIBBLE bubbles and Undine ship "blinks". Gotta keep repositioning the ship to get the cannon arcs.. and those undine npcs are psychic I tell you, cos they "blink" just when I hit CRF3 and loose dps trying to get into position :p

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