I always thought the leader of new Romulous was a bonehead. Splitting you're already fractured people who are already fighting their own in the tal shiar by instead having the republic fight against each other in a stafleet/kdf war that doesn't involve them is just plain insanity.
BUT
What if he was an undine? Weakening one of the powers in the alpha quadrant? Then suddenly Cryptic has a loop hole way out of their awful writing.
I think its obviously the racist traffic control officer at DS9. Every time my Klingon docks there, she admonishes him about "not causing trouble." If my Klink could find her on the station, he'd kill where she stands. Dishonorable QI'yaH!
I should have him file a petition against Starfleet.
I am an Undine agent, or I at least want my characters to be them sometimes. This would serve as a good explanation to make open PVP inside the Undine battlezone.
Devastating? Starfleet doesn't like Section 31. It seems like a flaw of the game (and post-DS9 Trek) that we easily could confuse S31 and Starfleet Intelligence. They're not the intelligence service for Starfleet. They INFILTRATED and compromised Starfleet Intelligence on DS9.
Yes, devastating.
The reason? Odds are that without Section 31, the Federation (and the UE before it), would have gone the way of the dinosaur long ago.
Section 31, despite their sometimes questionable methods, are in many cases the first and last line of defense of the UFP. They handle the dirty work, and do what needs to be done to preserve the Federation. Something Starfleet and Council cannot, or (more often) will not, do.
How else can the bigwigs in the Federation get away with whistling in the dark, or hiding behind their "principles", in a very dangerous galaxy?
Because somebody in the shadows is doing most of the heavy lifting, that's why.
This would be interesting though because if they were compromised by an infiltrator, maybe we could disband them after they've been broken.
The thing is, such would be highly unlikely from an in-universe and story point of view.
The Undine deal in tangibles. They tend to be both overly efficient (i.e. being straightforward and by the numbers in their activities) and "go for the jugular" types.
Their targets tend to be known entities and high profile personalities, whose replacement would do the most damage with the least amount of effort on their part. Politicians, important scientific minds, flag officers, ship commanders, businessmen, and possibly even media moguls and celeberties. Replace key personnel, and let the rank and file (under the doppleganger's orders) do your dirty work for you.
Section 31, in the minds of 99% of the UFP and Starfleet, is nothing more than a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory and urban myth. Those typically in the know, for the most part, are low level flunkies that the agency considers "assets" and attempts to recruit. There are exceptions, but they are not the rule. It's in Section 31's best interests to avoid the attention of movers and shakers further up the totem pole.
The Undine may take a passing interest in the possibility of a black ops group in the UFP. But they are not in the habit of chasing shadows. In their minds, they have bigger fish to fry.
This doesn't mean that I don't find their stories cool. But I think a Last Section 31 Story would be cooler. The fallout of their organization falling apart, agents going rogue, secrets being exposed, and dealing with a universe where they're no longer a presence. But maybe in the course of that Andoria splinters off or humans face some mistrust, as the Federation capital gets moved. (Ie. Starfleet would remain where it is. But the democratic government might move to distance themselves from S31, which might be seen as a HUMAN political scandal where HUMANS tried to subvert the Federation.)
I have to disagree. This may make those in the Cult of Roddenberry happy. But I would find it to be nothing more than a slightly altered, dull rehash of the fall of the Tal Shiar. And Section 31, by their very status of being a "mythical boogeyman", would be overly difficult to expose for somebody like a Julian Bashir, or our player character, who know of their existence. From my point of view, the Undine, who have no reason (that we know of) to believe the group exists, is no real threat to agency itself at this point. In fact, it would be the other way around.
T'nae's not an Undine. I suggest checking out "Divide ut Regnes" in the Spotlight missions in the Foundry. Her actions are all explained there.
It's a Foundry mission, and thus, not STO cannon.
In fact, as far as STO lore is concerned, Divide ut Regnes never existed, and T'nae is an hysterical psychopathic vulcan who want the utter destruction of the Romulan, no matter the cost.
You know it's coming, long time allies are going to be revealed to be Undine agents. Most likely those who instigated the Klingon Federation war. Let the witch hunt begin!
Who could they be?
Jorel Quinn?
Chief fleet admiral of Starfleet would give plenty of opportunities for mischief in the Federation.
Franklin Drake?
Motives never seemed that benign. A compromised section 31 agent would be very devastating to Starfleet.
Akira Sulu?
Would be funny.
J'mpok?
Honestly I think a lot of us have been expecting this. "But, J'mpok led a hunt of Undine in the Gorn government!". Did he? Or did he solidify his hold as Chancellor by killing some minor compromised Undine. His hyper aggressive stance with the Federation and Romulan Empire has always made him suspect of Undine infiltration. Single-handedly this Klingon killed the honorable Martok and did much to destabilize the alpha quadrant.
Let's start the inquisition and root out the Undine! Suspect everyone! If you think you have seen an Undine report them here!
All interesting but ... the true answer is: ALL THE DOCTORS IN STARFLEET (+ more obviously)
Why? Surely, a simple medical scan / checkup would conclude they are the "fakes".
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
He was fooled too easily in the last episode! He was probably replaced years ago on USS Voyager during a commercial break.
That's my theory and I'm STICKING TO IT! :P
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
In fact, as far as STO lore is concerned, Divide ut Regnes never existed, and T'nae is an hysterical psychopathic vulcan who want the utter destruction of the Romulan, no matter the cost.
I think we could call it STO 'soft-canon' - as it was picked for Spotlighting by Cryptic (sort of like how Cryptic has included many bits of soft-canon lore from Star Trek in STO) :P
Kestrel has said many times in the past that "Divide et Impera" was supposed to be the start of a three part Undine story arc. One can safely say that "Preemptive Strike" was most likely the culmination of said storyline - that Kestrel never had enough time to do due to the short deadline Cryptic had to get STO launched. (Thanks Perpetual, you slimeballs!)
She's also said T'Nae is one of her best characters, so I'm not sure she would turn her into just another 'monster' (Undine infiltrator).
Devastating? Starfleet doesn't like Section 31. It seems like a flaw of the game (and post-DS9 Trek) that we easily could confuse S31 and Starfleet Intelligence. They're not the intelligence service for Starfleet. They INFILTRATED and compromised Starfleet Intelligence on DS9.
This would be interesting though because if they were compromised by an infiltrator, maybe we could disband them after they've been broken.
This doesn't mean that I don't find their stories cool. But I think a Last Section 31 Story would be cooler. The fallout of their organization falling apart, agents going rogue, secrets being exposed, and dealing with a universe where they're no longer a presence. But maybe in the course of that Andoria splinters off or humans face some mistrust, as the Federation capital gets moved. (Ie. Starfleet would remain where it is. But the democratic government might move to distance themselves from S31, which might be seen as a HUMAN political scandal where HUMANS tried to subvert the Federation.)
I think there was a book about disbanding S31, it involved Bashir and a Cabal set up by Kirk to bring their illegal activities to a close
The reason? Odds are that without Section 31, the Federation (and the UE before it), would have gone the way of the dinosaur long ago.
Section 31, despite their sometimes questionable methods, are in many cases the first and last line of defense of the UFP. They handle the dirty work, and do what needs to be done to preserve the Federation. Something Starfleet and Council cannot, or (more often) will not, do.
How else can the bigwigs in the Federation get away with whistling in the dark, or hiding behind their "principles", in a very dangerous galaxy?
Because somebody in the shadows is doing most of the heavy lifting, that's why.
And who Told you all that? They did, all you have to go on is the word of S31 agents, assets and Sympathisers.
We only ever see a fraction of their activities and a handful of agents, their scope could be far greater or smaller than imagined, and their true motives never revealed to anybody except those Involved.
How much of their resources are devoted to furthering their own abilities to influence the Federation, Do they have any ability to affect policy? Perhaps they have assets in the Federations most senior political offices , they certainly have sympathy in the Admiralty
Plus the Motives of the organisation, protecting the UFP, are also in their own interest to cement their position of influence, I don't think thats a coincidence, and they are as self interested as anyone in the Federation
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
The promotion ceremony officer is an Undine. Makes perfect sense. He gets word of every promotion and ship postings and relays that info to the rest of them.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I am a Changeling posing as an Undine posing as a Starfleet officer.
I like it!
...also, toaster skinjobs! KHAAAANN!!
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
BranFlakes was one. Cryptic found out he was being very nice to us and unmasked him. First "promoting him away" then forcing him to eat BranFlakes with cyanide and posting that picture on Facebook for LC 62. I'm suspecting Smirk and most of all Trendy as well. Those Bacon references have to have a function. Maybe the Undine are after Bacon all along. "The weak shall perish, then we will eat them!"
On a serious note, Obisek. How else can you explain that this Reman idio- leader managed to get every base he commanded attacked?
- Crateris
- Ice base
- The Vault
- Vauthil Station
And ofcourse the Borg Queen. How often did we kill her by now? She is getting replaced by Undine all the time!
And ofcourse the Borg Queen. How often did we kill her by now? She is getting replaced by Undine all the time!
Since the Undine's MO does seem to involve replacing people in key/leadership rolls, AND the Borg is an Undine enemy, this actually makes a lot of sense.
Until you think about how the collective works.
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
On a serious note, Obisek. How else can you explain that this Reman idio- leader managed to get every base he commanded attacked?
How about plain old lousy luck?
I always like to remind people of a story about Napoleon Bonaparte. Whenever a name was recommended to him for promotion to general, he asked only one question: "Is he lucky?"
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Why this thread, now everybody in the fleet is pointing fingers at each other, they don't want to do STF's anymore because they don't trust one another !!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
BUT
What if he was an undine? Weakening one of the powers in the alpha quadrant? Then suddenly Cryptic has a loop hole way out of their awful writing.
I should have him file a petition against Starfleet.
Oh wait, someone has already done that...
Put all of them on one planet and nuke it from orbit. It's the ONLY way to be sure.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
Yes, devastating.
The reason? Odds are that without Section 31, the Federation (and the UE before it), would have gone the way of the dinosaur long ago.
Section 31, despite their sometimes questionable methods, are in many cases the first and last line of defense of the UFP. They handle the dirty work, and do what needs to be done to preserve the Federation. Something Starfleet and Council cannot, or (more often) will not, do.
How else can the bigwigs in the Federation get away with whistling in the dark, or hiding behind their "principles", in a very dangerous galaxy?
Because somebody in the shadows is doing most of the heavy lifting, that's why.
The thing is, such would be highly unlikely from an in-universe and story point of view.
The Undine deal in tangibles. They tend to be both overly efficient (i.e. being straightforward and by the numbers in their activities) and "go for the jugular" types.
Their targets tend to be known entities and high profile personalities, whose replacement would do the most damage with the least amount of effort on their part. Politicians, important scientific minds, flag officers, ship commanders, businessmen, and possibly even media moguls and celeberties. Replace key personnel, and let the rank and file (under the doppleganger's orders) do your dirty work for you.
Section 31, in the minds of 99% of the UFP and Starfleet, is nothing more than a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory and urban myth. Those typically in the know, for the most part, are low level flunkies that the agency considers "assets" and attempts to recruit. There are exceptions, but they are not the rule. It's in Section 31's best interests to avoid the attention of movers and shakers further up the totem pole.
The Undine may take a passing interest in the possibility of a black ops group in the UFP. But they are not in the habit of chasing shadows. In their minds, they have bigger fish to fry.
I have to disagree. This may make those in the Cult of Roddenberry happy. But I would find it to be nothing more than a slightly altered, dull rehash of the fall of the Tal Shiar. And Section 31, by their very status of being a "mythical boogeyman", would be overly difficult to expose for somebody like a Julian Bashir, or our player character, who know of their existence. From my point of view, the Undine, who have no reason (that we know of) to believe the group exists, is no real threat to agency itself at this point. In fact, it would be the other way around.
In fact, as far as STO lore is concerned, Divide ut Regnes never existed, and T'nae is an hysterical psychopathic vulcan who want the utter destruction of the Romulan, no matter the cost.
All interesting but ... the true answer is:
ALL THE DOCTORS IN STARFLEET (+ more obviously)
Why? Surely, a simple medical scan / checkup would conclude they are the "fakes".
I hope STO get's better ...
I dont like him.
Isnt he the one that threatened to "dock my pay" a while back for some fix it mission? If so its him. He is a Undine, I am sure of it.
He was fooled too easily in the last episode! He was probably replaced years ago on USS Voyager during a commercial break.
That's my theory and I'm STICKING TO IT! :P
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
I think we could call it STO 'soft-canon' - as it was picked for Spotlighting by Cryptic (sort of like how Cryptic has included many bits of soft-canon lore from Star Trek in STO) :P
Kestrel has said many times in the past that "Divide et Impera" was supposed to be the start of a three part Undine story arc. One can safely say that "Preemptive Strike" was most likely the culmination of said storyline - that Kestrel never had enough time to do due to the short deadline Cryptic had to get STO launched. (Thanks Perpetual, you slimeballs!)
She's also said T'Nae is one of her best characters, so I'm not sure she would turn her into just another 'monster' (Undine infiltrator).
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
NO NO NO do not include my lovely commander and the Lliset that i was supposed to get command of as the undine!! Q_Q :mad:
Err, you mean this isn't the Undine Agents Anonymous meeting?
How awkward. Are you sure? Admitting you have a problem IS the first step to recovery.
No? Nobody?
Very well, since I revealed myself to you, I must kill you all.
The weak shall perish!
I think there was a book about disbanding S31, it involved Bashir and a Cabal set up by Kirk to bring their illegal activities to a close
And who Told you all that? They did, all you have to go on is the word of S31 agents, assets and Sympathisers.
We only ever see a fraction of their activities and a handful of agents, their scope could be far greater or smaller than imagined, and their true motives never revealed to anybody except those Involved.
How much of their resources are devoted to furthering their own abilities to influence the Federation, Do they have any ability to affect policy? Perhaps they have assets in the Federations most senior political offices , they certainly have sympathy in the Admiralty
Plus the Motives of the organisation, protecting the UFP, are also in their own interest to cement their position of influence, I don't think thats a coincidence, and they are as self interested as anyone in the Federation
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Or at least that's what I will assume if I get a Species 8472 ship
How esle Can I be a Fed Caitian Engineer Vice admiral, A Romulan Vice Admiral and a KDF Brig General- At the same time!
Sweet mother of god, it all makes sense now
Especially why loyal KDF officers would freely give Contraband and energy credits to Feds
Death to the non-fluidic guys n stuff.
My character Tsin'xing
Frakkin cylons -grabs a bottle of scotch-
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I mean come on ... , the Undine invading Bajor ???
Who could have come up with that one ...
I like it!
...also, toaster skinjobs! KHAAAANN!!
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
On a serious note, Obisek. How else can you explain that this Reman idio- leader managed to get every base he commanded attacked?
- Crateris
- Ice base
- The Vault
- Vauthil Station
And ofcourse the Borg Queen. How often did we kill her by now? She is getting replaced by Undine all the time!
Join the Deltas today!
Until you think about how the collective works.
I always like to remind people of a story about Napoleon Bonaparte. Whenever a name was recommended to him for promotion to general, he asked only one question: "Is he lucky?"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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