Why are you people assuming that aliens adhere to Earth biology. Just because it looks like a reptile doesn't mean it has to follow Earth reptile rules seeing as it's as unrelated as possible to earth reptiles.
I'm not saying slapping TRIBBLE on it and calling it female isn't silly, but trying to argue against it with completely inapplicable logic is just as silly.
Short version: Mammary glands are unique to mammals and possibly certain extinct therapsids.
So NO aliens should have such organs. I make an exception for Trek because of the Preserver thing, but still...
Species like the Gorn, which are explicitly stated to be very similar to Terran reptiles, should not have TRIBBLE.
Sounds like wonderful improvement. Can't say I have any complains on this kind of updates.
Soooo, are you going to add black color (and with black I do not mean all those shades of grey we have instead of black now) to clothing while you are at it?
I think remans look silly in blue and purple when they wore black in movie and Enterprise series. :P
A test server is supposed to be used to properly test patches before patching anything....
Why are people always asking environmental or character artists to fix system bugs in the game?
That's like asking a painter to fix your plumbing!
Um . . No. I'm pretty sure I asked for the Exchange Search Engine to be fixed before we start improving things nobody asked for. Not "Hey! Can the art team please fix stuff that isnt in your department." Please note this thread is a Season 9 Dev Blog, not 'A Note From The Art Dept'.
But this is still earth-based thinking, and that's the problem.
Well, yes.
But the Trekverse explicitly and implicitly states that the Preservers seeded life on all kinds of planets, so the biochemistry and most of the biology is functionally intercompatible for 99% of more of humanoid lifeforms. C.F. Vulcan/Human, Klingon/Vulcan, and Klingon/Human hybrids, most if not all of which were fertile.
Also seen: Ktarian/Human, Cardassian/Bajoran, Cardassian/Kazon, Human/Trill, possibly others.
Given this, it seems likely that the various life-forms on random, humanoid-inhabited planets fit into the same basic groups as Terran life-forms. Hence, species explicitly stated to be reptilian (Cardassians, Saurians, Gorn, Letheans, Xindi-Reptilians, Suliban) should be androgynous, with females possibly having wider hips, unless explicitly stated otherwise (i.e. the Preservers used some mammal features for some reason).
Why are you people assuming that aliens adhere to Earth biology. Just because it looks like a reptile doesn't mean it has to follow Earth reptile rules seeing as it's as unrelated as possible to earth reptiles.
I'm not saying slapping TRIBBLE on it and calling it female isn't silly, but trying to argue against it with completely inapplicable logic is just as silly.
Short version: Mammary glands are unique to mammals and possibly certain extinct therapsids. .
That statement is either an assumption, or classifying aliens with TRIBBLE as mammals. Either way, it holds no weight against the argument that alien "reptiles" could indeed have TRIBBLE.
But the Trekverse explicitly and implicitly states that the Preservers seeded life on all kinds of planets, so the biochemistry and most of the biology is functionally intercompatible for 99% of more of humanoid lifeforms. C.F. Vulcan/Human, Klingon/Vulcan, and Klingon/Human hybrids, most if not all of which were fertile.
Also seen: Ktarian/Human, Cardassian/Bajoran, Cardassian/Kazon, Human/Trill, possibly others.
The Preservers are actually an argument in favor of Gorn having TRIBBLE, if the Gorn are indeed evolved from the Preservers' influence. The reason is that the Preservers imbued the ability for humanoids to spawn from life on alien planets. It is unreasonable to assume outright that TRIBBLE wouldn't be included with humanlike musculature development, standing upright, and opposable thumbs. Human TRIBBLE indeed are, by all intents and purposes, just as much a "humanoid" feature as any of those.
And on that note, IRL lizards don't have those attributes listed above either, just like they don't have TRIBBLE. So if you classify Gorn, Saurian, and Voth as "lizards", then say that they can't have TRIBBLE because they are lizards, you're using false reasoning, plain and simple.
Um . . No. I'm pretty sure I asked for the Exchange Search Engine to be fixed before we start improving things nobody asked for. Not "Hey! Can the art team please fix stuff that isnt in your department." Please note this thread is a Season 9 Dev Blog, not 'A Note From The Art Dept'.
So until every single complaint from the forums is addressed (as we can't ask that cryptic play favorites) we can't have new content that a forum goer didn't specifically request. You are quite directly asking that they put an end to whining on the internet (ie. get the game into a state where a new release can't be said to be usurping the place of incredibly minor bug fixes as determined by us on the forums) before supporting their game with novel things.
Considering what this game is about, its probably a fair point to ask what planet are you from?
(Also: the point of a season is to structure the release of new content. If you have a beef with bugs, the support forums is probably where you want to be in the first place.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
But the Trekverse explicitly and implicitly states that the Preservers seeded life on all kinds of planets, so the biochemistry and most of the biology is functionally intercompatible for 99% of more of humanoid lifeforms. C.F. Vulcan/Human, Klingon/Vulcan, and Klingon/Human hybrids, most if not all of which were fertile.
Basically, its Lamarckian evolution (which is wrong) being applied to justify the allegorical nature of the ST universe (and limitations in TV/movie/game production.)
It's best not to think about these things...(unless you want to face the terrible reality that Spock isn't real.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
So until every single complaint from the forums is addressed (as we can't ask that cryptic play favorites) we can't have new content that a forum goer didn't specifically request. You are quite directly asking that they put an end to whining on the internet (ie. get the game into a state where a new release can't be said to be usurping the place of incredibly minor bug fixes as determined by us on the forums) before supporting their game with novel things.
Considering what this game is about, its probably a fair point to ask what planet are you from?
(Also: the point of a season is to structure the release of new content. If you have a beef with bugs, the support forums is probably where you want to be in the first place.)
LOL - What planet are YOU from not to have noticed the long looooong list of dusty old issues IN the support forums yet to be addressed. Again, and probably a MORE fair point to ask, what is wrong with asking for requested fixes to things (especially something as simple and basic as an in-game search engine) before I get TRIBBLE I (nor anyone else for that matter) even asked for or wanted?
LOL - What planet are YOU from not to have noticed the long looooong list of dusty old issues IN the support forums yet to be addressed. Again, and probably a MORE fair point to ask, what is wrong with asking for requested fixes to things (especially something as simple and basic as an in-game search engine) before I get TRIBBLE I (nor anyone else for that matter) even asked for or wanted?
anyone is a broad-brush your painting with, try more like you didn't want.
Second the in game search engine might not be a simple fix, you don't know, it could be buried under heaps of code interacting with each other and databases of information and trying to collate it through who knows what all other systems and lines of code for you too use. so what looks like a simple thing could be a absolute nightmare of a mess in terms of code, I'm not saying it is, just that you don't know if it is simple to fix. it might also be simple but lengthy and be getting pushed around in the bug que for higher priority bugs that are causing disruptions of service or other such things and need a high level of attention, you don't know.
It could be completely different sets of people working on things, yes their teams small, but they still have different depts.
Id like bugs addressed too, and things fixed, and balance, but your making a lot of assumptions about why they arnt fixed that you honestly shouldn't be making.
LOL - What planet are YOU from not to have noticed the long looooong list of dusty old issues IN the support forums yet to be addressed. Again, and probably a MORE fair point to ask, what is wrong with asking for requested fixes to things (especially something as simple and basic as an in-game search engine) before I get TRIBBLE I (nor anyone else for that matter) even asked for or wanted?
What's so wrong about new customization options? For longer than there have been these issues of yours the game's lacked diversity in a few very important baseline customization options. I'm sorry that this wasn't spelled out for you but it's an important thing to rectify none the less because, apart from allowing other ethnicities to get closer to a representative captain, it gives us a lot more flexibility in boff creation (I'm on tribble right now, this stuff is great) and cryptic in their NPC's.
So ****ing what that a minor exchange bug didn't get fixed with this tailor system update? That's not within the purview of the dev team working on this particular update, it's not even a relevant topic of conversation for a season update. There's nothing wrong with asking that glitches get fixed. Just do so in the support forum where this adjenda of yours belongs.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Would it be possible for Joe Jing to assign someone (or do it personally) to give us the Infected Complexion as a full body skin please?
Or any of the more elaborate complexions (Lissepian is at the top of my list.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
LOL - What planet are YOU from not to have noticed the long looooong list of dusty old issues IN the support forums yet to be addressed. Again, and probably a MORE fair point to ask, what is wrong with asking for requested fixes to things (especially something as simple and basic as an in-game search engine) before I get TRIBBLE I (nor anyone else for that matter) even asked for or wanted?
This dev blog doesn't even involve Devs that would work on the bugs you're referring to in your post. So it is 100% off topic.
The Preservers are actually an argument in favor of Gorn having TRIBBLE, if the Gorn are indeed evolved from the Preservers' influence. The reason is that the Preservers imbued the ability for humanoids to spawn from life on alien planets. It is unreasonable to assume outright that TRIBBLE wouldn't be included with humanlike musculature development, standing upright, and opposable thumbs. Human TRIBBLE indeed are, by all intents and purposes, just as much a "humanoid" feature as any of those.
And on that note, IRL lizards don't have those attributes listed above either, just like they don't have TRIBBLE. So if you classify Gorn, Saurian, and Voth as "lizards", then say that they can't have TRIBBLE because they are lizards, you're using false reasoning, plain and simple.
OK. I'm saying that in a universe without the Preservers, it is entirely possible to have Gorn with mammary glands or similar-looking organs.
WITH the Preservers, though, most galactic life is classifiable into the same basic classes as Terran life, and so judging the biology of humanoid aliens (basically, anything but Horta, Tholians, Sheliak, Changelings, Undine, and a couple of other minor species) by Terran standards is not illogical.
Also, in the special case of the Voth, which are for some completely insane reason implied to be descended from ornithiscian dinosaurs (more precisely, lambeosaurine hadrosaurids), there is absolutely no reason at all for mammary glands. Quite simply, their ancestors didn't have them, and fed their relatively precocial young by regurgitating half-digested food. There's no reason why the modern Voth shouldn't do the same.
And I'm really pissed at the Voyager writers for the Voth as written; more realistic "dinosapients" would've been about the size of a turkey, probably about half tail, horizontally-oriented, female-dominant (with large, bulky females and small, svelte males) and some sort of drab camouflage-patterned feathers, with a clicking or musical language enhanced by large amounts of tail motions. Essentially, raptors plus 65 million years of evolution. The Voth as Voyager portrays them are a paleontologist's nightmare.
Not that they and their laser dinos aren't cool, in a TOS kind of way. They're just the kind of thing that makes my dino geek side scream in torment.
WITH the Preservers, though, most galactic life is classifiable into the same basic classes as Terran life, and so judging the biology of humanoid aliens (basically, anything but Horta, Tholians, Sheliak, Changelings, Undine, and a couple of other minor species) by Terran standards is not illogical.
Why? What does the Preservers seeding planets with the potential to evolve humanoid life have to do with everything being like Earth life?
The Preservers' influence did not dictate the evolution of every creature on the planets they have seeded. They have merely seeded the planets with a DNA code that would direct the evolution of life on that planet towards a form similar to their own.
And since most humanoids of the Milky Way have TRIBBLE, it's very reasonable to assume that the trait came from them... which means that more than likely, even a species that has traits that we identify as "reptilian" might very well have mammaries if they came from the Preservers' seeded DNA.
Terran life other than humans have almost nothing to do with the Presevers. The animals that had branched off of the evolutionary tree as it approached a humanoid form have probably been only influenced by their environment, as is normal for evolutionary paths.
Terran life other than humans have almost nothing to do with the Presevers. The animals that had branched off of the evolutionary tree as it approached a humanoid form have probably been only influenced by their environment, as is normal for evolutionary paths.
Actually they do. If you take it that the preservers directed the course of evolutionary history somehow through the starting DNA template to produce an inevitable humanoid species then you can't split hairs about what is or isn't their doing. The humanoid body plan isn't a unique evolutionary novelty but the modification of a distinctly non-human terrestrial quadruped. If the preservers made us (speaking strictly within the realm of the ST universe), if they guided our evolution then they must have guided it through a series of major steps from which a LOT of other stuff radiates as well. The preservers are therefore responsible for EVERYTHING because while at least one line followed the course they established to its completion, the rest of the biosphere (in one scenario) is skipping off at various points from along the SAME artifical pathway (meaning that up to a point they are Preserver products) or that they simply haven't yet achieved as much progress (depending on just how plastic plot-derived evo-devo is and how willing that plot is to throw out The Modern Synthesis.)
What you get, essentially, is one [or several in the case of the Xindi] most-competitive life form (ie. the humanoid) and a biome formed from the shrapnel from its directed evolution that simply represents the error associated with the preserver's BS space magic. However it's all still being derived from the same source (magic) and therefore there is no "normal" evolutionary path.
This is why its best to just ignore that one episode and default to the suspension of disbelief when it comes to how aliens are portrayed and just whose gametes are capable of doing what with each other.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Actually they do. If you take it that the preservers directed the course of evolutionary history somehow through the starting DNA template to produce an inevitable humanoid species then you can't split hairs about what is or isn't their doing.
If evolution in the Trek continuity is anything like how it works IRL, then it definitely is not their doing. It may not be, but to claim that it may or might not be isn't evidence that it is their doing.
The humanoid body plan isn't a unique evolutionary novelty but the modification of a distinctly non-human terrestrial quadruped. If the preservers made us (speaking strictly within the realm of the ST universe), if they guided our evolution then they must have guided it through a series of major steps from which a LOT of other stuff radiates as well.
Once the influence of guiding isn't present in a population, it is most likely that natural mutations take over in the main determining factor of evolutionary direction.The life forms resulting from the guided path will only stay that way for so long.
because while at least one line followed the course they established to its completion, the rest of the biosphere (in one scenario) is skipping off at various points from along the SAME artifical pathway (meaning that up to a point they are Preserver products) or that they simply haven't yet achieved as much progress (depending on just how plastic plot-derived evo-devo is and how willing that plot is to throw out The Modern Synthesis.)
Which have nothing to do with each other seeded world, even if you are correct, as that assumption is predicated on the additional assumption that the guided evolutionary path acts the same way on each planet.
What you get, essentially, is one [or several in the case of the Xindi] most-competitive life form (ie. the humanoid) and a biome formed from the shrapnel from its directed evolution that simply represents the error associated with the preserver's BS space magic. However it's all still being derived from the same source (magic) and therefore there is no "normal" evolutionary path.
Same assumption here. No idea why the "therefore" is even there, as the explanation you have provided is based on assumptions.
This is why its best to just ignore that one episode and default to the suspension of disbelief when it comes to how aliens are portrayed and just whose gametes are capable of doing what with each other.
The suspension of disbelief could apply to anything a fiction has to offer. What we're discussing is the mechanics of Preserver magic. And I don't see why it's a good idea to ignore any episode(unless it's the Janeway/Paris lizard episode...)
Given this, it seems likely that the various life-forms on random, humanoid-inhabited planets fit into the same basic groups as Terran life-forms. Hence, species explicitly stated to be reptilian (Cardassians, Saurians, Gorn, Letheans, Xindi-Reptilians, Suliban) should be androgynous, with females possibly having wider hips, unless explicitly stated otherwise (i.e. the Preservers used some mammal features for some reason).
Fair argument until you get to about here. We can see fairly plainly that Cardassian women have TRIBBLE, so obviously just because something can be called reptilian doesn't mean it adheres strictly to what we know of reptiles, even given the Preservers angle.
At the end of the day the only thing we're left with is this: Preservers had TRIBBLE, Preservers seeded the overwhelming majority of life in this galaxy hardcoded to resemble them to at least some extent. Therefor, TRIBBLE are not out of the realm of possibility for any race regardless of their apparent taxonomy.
Fair argument until you get to about here. We can see fairly plainly that Cardassian women have TRIBBLE, so obviously just because something can be called reptilian doesn't mean it adheres strictly to what we know of reptiles, even given the Preservers angle.
At the end of the day the only thing we're left with is this: Preservers had TRIBBLE, Preservers seeded the overwhelming majority of life in this galaxy hardcoded to resemble them to at least some extent. Therefor, TRIBBLE are not out of the realm of possibility for any race regardless of their apparent taxonomy.
Fair argument until you get to about here. We can see fairly plainly that Cardassian women have TRIBBLE, so obviously just because something can be called reptilian doesn't mean it adheres strictly to what we know of reptiles, even given the Preservers angle.
At the end of the day the only thing we're left with is this: Preservers had TRIBBLE, Preservers seeded the overwhelming majority of life in this galaxy hardcoded to resemble them to at least some extent. Therefor, TRIBBLE are not out of the realm of possibility for any race regardless of their apparent taxonomy.
Point, but...
Given the biochemical intercompatibility of life on all humanoid-populated planets, it is illogical to assume that the Preservers did NOT interfere with all life on whatever planets they encountered.
Therefore, Cardassian women, a lizardlike species, SHOULD NOT have mammary glands, should look like wide-hipped males, and should regurgitate half-digested or masticated food to feed their young.
Of course, that would've been too nerdy to really fly in primetime, so the writers kind of dropped the ball in this corner of canon.
Not really. Pangolin scales, armadillo scales, and rhinoceros horns are all made of compressed hair keratin, whereas reptile scales are made of a different type of keratin (like bird feathers).
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Short version: Mammary glands are unique to mammals and possibly certain extinct therapsids.
So NO aliens should have such organs. I make an exception for Trek because of the Preserver thing, but still...
Species like the Gorn, which are explicitly stated to be very similar to Terran reptiles, should not have TRIBBLE.
Soooo, are you going to add black color (and with black I do not mean all those shades of grey we have instead of black now) to clothing while you are at it?
I think remans look silly in blue and purple when they wore black in movie and Enterprise series. :P
A test server is supposed to be used to properly test patches before patching anything....
Why are people always asking environmental or character artists to fix system bugs in the game?
That's like asking a painter to fix your plumbing!
Um . . No. I'm pretty sure I asked for the Exchange Search Engine to be fixed before we start improving things nobody asked for. Not "Hey! Can the art team please fix stuff that isnt in your department." Please note this thread is a Season 9 Dev Blog, not 'A Note From The Art Dept'.
But this is still earth-based thinking, and that's the problem.
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Well, yes.
But the Trekverse explicitly and implicitly states that the Preservers seeded life on all kinds of planets, so the biochemistry and most of the biology is functionally intercompatible for 99% of more of humanoid lifeforms. C.F. Vulcan/Human, Klingon/Vulcan, and Klingon/Human hybrids, most if not all of which were fertile.
Also seen: Ktarian/Human, Cardassian/Bajoran, Cardassian/Kazon, Human/Trill, possibly others.
Given this, it seems likely that the various life-forms on random, humanoid-inhabited planets fit into the same basic groups as Terran life-forms. Hence, species explicitly stated to be reptilian (Cardassians, Saurians, Gorn, Letheans, Xindi-Reptilians, Suliban) should be androgynous, with females possibly having wider hips, unless explicitly stated otherwise (i.e. the Preservers used some mammal features for some reason).
That statement is either an assumption, or classifying aliens with TRIBBLE as mammals. Either way, it holds no weight against the argument that alien "reptiles" could indeed have TRIBBLE.
The Preservers are actually an argument in favor of Gorn having TRIBBLE, if the Gorn are indeed evolved from the Preservers' influence. The reason is that the Preservers imbued the ability for humanoids to spawn from life on alien planets. It is unreasonable to assume outright that TRIBBLE wouldn't be included with humanlike musculature development, standing upright, and opposable thumbs. Human TRIBBLE indeed are, by all intents and purposes, just as much a "humanoid" feature as any of those.
And on that note, IRL lizards don't have those attributes listed above either, just like they don't have TRIBBLE. So if you classify Gorn, Saurian, and Voth as "lizards", then say that they can't have TRIBBLE because they are lizards, you're using false reasoning, plain and simple.
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So until every single complaint from the forums is addressed (as we can't ask that cryptic play favorites) we can't have new content that a forum goer didn't specifically request. You are quite directly asking that they put an end to whining on the internet (ie. get the game into a state where a new release can't be said to be usurping the place of incredibly minor bug fixes as determined by us on the forums) before supporting their game with novel things.
Considering what this game is about, its probably a fair point to ask what planet are you from?
(Also: the point of a season is to structure the release of new content. If you have a beef with bugs, the support forums is probably where you want to be in the first place.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Basically, its Lamarckian evolution (which is wrong) being applied to justify the allegorical nature of the ST universe (and limitations in TV/movie/game production.)
It's best not to think about these things...(unless you want to face the terrible reality that Spock isn't real.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
LOL - What planet are YOU from not to have noticed the long looooong list of dusty old issues IN the support forums yet to be addressed. Again, and probably a MORE fair point to ask, what is wrong with asking for requested fixes to things (especially something as simple and basic as an in-game search engine) before I get TRIBBLE I (nor anyone else for that matter) even asked for or wanted?
anyone is a broad-brush your painting with, try more like you didn't want.
Second the in game search engine might not be a simple fix, you don't know, it could be buried under heaps of code interacting with each other and databases of information and trying to collate it through who knows what all other systems and lines of code for you too use. so what looks like a simple thing could be a absolute nightmare of a mess in terms of code, I'm not saying it is, just that you don't know if it is simple to fix. it might also be simple but lengthy and be getting pushed around in the bug que for higher priority bugs that are causing disruptions of service or other such things and need a high level of attention, you don't know.
It could be completely different sets of people working on things, yes their teams small, but they still have different depts.
Id like bugs addressed too, and things fixed, and balance, but your making a lot of assumptions about why they arnt fixed that you honestly shouldn't be making.
What's so wrong about new customization options? For longer than there have been these issues of yours the game's lacked diversity in a few very important baseline customization options. I'm sorry that this wasn't spelled out for you but it's an important thing to rectify none the less because, apart from allowing other ethnicities to get closer to a representative captain, it gives us a lot more flexibility in boff creation (I'm on tribble right now, this stuff is great) and cryptic in their NPC's.
So ****ing what that a minor exchange bug didn't get fixed with this tailor system update? That's not within the purview of the dev team working on this particular update, it's not even a relevant topic of conversation for a season update. There's nothing wrong with asking that glitches get fixed. Just do so in the support forum where this adjenda of yours belongs.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Or any of the more elaborate complexions (Lissepian is at the top of my list.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Please? Also why can't this be used on the C-Store boff?
This dev blog doesn't even involve Devs that would work on the bugs you're referring to in your post. So it is 100% off topic.
OK. I'm saying that in a universe without the Preservers, it is entirely possible to have Gorn with mammary glands or similar-looking organs.
WITH the Preservers, though, most galactic life is classifiable into the same basic classes as Terran life, and so judging the biology of humanoid aliens (basically, anything but Horta, Tholians, Sheliak, Changelings, Undine, and a couple of other minor species) by Terran standards is not illogical.
Also, in the special case of the Voth, which are for some completely insane reason implied to be descended from ornithiscian dinosaurs (more precisely, lambeosaurine hadrosaurids), there is absolutely no reason at all for mammary glands. Quite simply, their ancestors didn't have them, and fed their relatively precocial young by regurgitating half-digested food. There's no reason why the modern Voth shouldn't do the same.
And I'm really pissed at the Voyager writers for the Voth as written; more realistic "dinosapients" would've been about the size of a turkey, probably about half tail, horizontally-oriented, female-dominant (with large, bulky females and small, svelte males) and some sort of drab camouflage-patterned feathers, with a clicking or musical language enhanced by large amounts of tail motions. Essentially, raptors plus 65 million years of evolution. The Voth as Voyager portrays them are a paleontologist's nightmare.
Not that they and their laser dinos aren't cool, in a TOS kind of way. They're just the kind of thing that makes my dino geek side scream in torment.
The Preservers' influence did not dictate the evolution of every creature on the planets they have seeded. They have merely seeded the planets with a DNA code that would direct the evolution of life on that planet towards a form similar to their own.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Ancient_humanoid
And since most humanoids of the Milky Way have TRIBBLE, it's very reasonable to assume that the trait came from them... which means that more than likely, even a species that has traits that we identify as "reptilian" might very well have mammaries if they came from the Preservers' seeded DNA.
Terran life other than humans have almost nothing to do with the Presevers. The animals that had branched off of the evolutionary tree as it approached a humanoid form have probably been only influenced by their environment, as is normal for evolutionary paths.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Actually they do. If you take it that the preservers directed the course of evolutionary history somehow through the starting DNA template to produce an inevitable humanoid species then you can't split hairs about what is or isn't their doing. The humanoid body plan isn't a unique evolutionary novelty but the modification of a distinctly non-human terrestrial quadruped. If the preservers made us (speaking strictly within the realm of the ST universe), if they guided our evolution then they must have guided it through a series of major steps from which a LOT of other stuff radiates as well. The preservers are therefore responsible for EVERYTHING because while at least one line followed the course they established to its completion, the rest of the biosphere (in one scenario) is skipping off at various points from along the SAME artifical pathway (meaning that up to a point they are Preserver products) or that they simply haven't yet achieved as much progress (depending on just how plastic plot-derived evo-devo is and how willing that plot is to throw out The Modern Synthesis.)
What you get, essentially, is one [or several in the case of the Xindi] most-competitive life form (ie. the humanoid) and a biome formed from the shrapnel from its directed evolution that simply represents the error associated with the preserver's BS space magic. However it's all still being derived from the same source (magic) and therefore there is no "normal" evolutionary path.
This is why its best to just ignore that one episode and default to the suspension of disbelief when it comes to how aliens are portrayed and just whose gametes are capable of doing what with each other.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Just like I do... and Worffan
Once the influence of guiding isn't present in a population, it is most likely that natural mutations take over in the main determining factor of evolutionary direction.The life forms resulting from the guided path will only stay that way for so long.
I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion.
Which have nothing to do with each other seeded world, even if you are correct, as that assumption is predicated on the additional assumption that the guided evolutionary path acts the same way on each planet.
Same assumption here. No idea why the "therefore" is even there, as the explanation you have provided is based on assumptions.
The suspension of disbelief could apply to anything a fiction has to offer. What we're discussing is the mechanics of Preserver magic. And I don't see why it's a good idea to ignore any episode(unless it's the Janeway/Paris lizard episode...)
Maybe we're not on the same page here though.
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Fair argument until you get to about here. We can see fairly plainly that Cardassian women have TRIBBLE, so obviously just because something can be called reptilian doesn't mean it adheres strictly to what we know of reptiles, even given the Preservers angle.
At the end of the day the only thing we're left with is this: Preservers had TRIBBLE, Preservers seeded the overwhelming majority of life in this galaxy hardcoded to resemble them to at least some extent. Therefor, TRIBBLE are not out of the realm of possibility for any race regardless of their apparent taxonomy.
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Besides, mammals have scales too.
That made me think of this quote, Here
Anyways
Back on topic, I like how the new complexion turned out.
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It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
perhaps that was done on purpose? given who cooper is?
Given the biochemical intercompatibility of life on all humanoid-populated planets, it is illogical to assume that the Preservers did NOT interfere with all life on whatever planets they encountered.
Therefore, Cardassian women, a lizardlike species, SHOULD NOT have mammary glands, should look like wide-hipped males, and should regurgitate half-digested or masticated food to feed their young.
Of course, that would've been too nerdy to really fly in primetime, so the writers kind of dropped the ball in this corner of canon.
Not really. Pangolin scales, armadillo scales, and rhinoceros horns are all made of compressed hair keratin, whereas reptile scales are made of a different type of keratin (like bird feathers).
They are analogous structures but not homologous.
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