they ought to update the negvar too, the galaxy, d'deridex, and negh'var are all counterparts as the largest canon ship for each side. they should all have the d'deridex style station setup, only difference being what ENS station they get. tac for the d'd, sci for the gal, and eng for the neg, with the other ENS uni still. with all of them having a 4/3/3 console layout. you would think doing right by canon ships would be the best way to make money, it certainly seems like its worked for all the non faction canon ships they make
You know, I'd be happy if they just buffed the Galaxy to be on par with the Negh'Var. The comparison between the two ships is depressing.
I was under the impression that, canon wise, the D'Deridex, Galaxy, and Vor'cha were all prominent ships in their time? The Negh'Var was introduced into the prime universe much later than the D'Deridex or Galaxy.
I do agree with the boff setup you mentioned though. Cryptic made a good move with the D'Deridex boff setup. If only they could apply that to the Gal-R and Negh'Var (and fleet versions).
the d'deridex is sort of unknown, could have come out at almost exactly the same time as the galaxy, but its likely that its as much as 10 years older, for it to so dominate the romulan fleet. the vorcha is certainly older then galaxy by at least 5 years i imagine, the negvar came last but its not more then 10 years older then the galaxy. as far as which is most powerful, id rate d'deridex, negvar, galaxy, all quite close in firepower, but vorcha quite a bit less powerful then this crowd. its not even as large as an akira though, a ~1,200,000m³ ship has no business competing with ships 5 to 20 times its size.
klingon cruisers are typically on the small side, the negvar was the first time they really built something to scale with the federation and romulans. it was mostly gowron's vanity project, and its existence was pretty counter to typical klingon small ship hit and run doctrine. the vorcha is a very powerful ship, certainly the most powerful ship with its mass, but its more like a late answer to the ambassador class, like the negvar is a late answer to the galaxy. the soverign could perfectly be described as the federations vorcha though
True. From what we saw of the Negh'Var in the prime universe, it was a rarely seen command ship with a lot of firepower - almost like the KDF contemporary of the Sovereign. Neither were a key player in the War, just the flagship of their fleets.
As for Vor'cha offensive capabilities, they seem to be on equal footing with a Galaxy. In fact, from scenes in the Dominion War, they sometimes had the burst fire capability on par with a Defiant. Around TNG though, they were only in a limited run (similar to how there were originally 6 Galaxys and 6 empty frames).
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they ought to update the negvar too, the galaxy, d'deridex, and negh'var are all counterparts as the largest canon ship for each side. they should all have the d'deridex style station setup, only difference being what ENS station they get. tac for the d'd, sci for the gal, and eng for the neg, with the other ENS uni still. with all of them having a 4/3/3 console layout. you would think doing right by canon ships would be the best way to make money, it certainly seems like its worked for all the non faction canon ships they make
You would think that doing right by cannon ships would mean more cannon ships and less alien ship riff raff, like we see parked around spacedock and q'onos.
The problem I see is, they don't want cannon ships to compete sales-wise with the latest alien ships. (most of which come out of lock boxes).
Which is kinda stupid, because even now, I would pay for yet ANOTHER Galaxy pack.
Perhaps one that would cater to each career, (like the Odysseys)
The Galaxies were supposed to be flexible, and module, so a three pack makes canon sense.
I think there is STILL a money making opportunity with the Galaxy x, it's a shame they can't see it though, and it's a shame they keep trying to sell us things we don't want instead. That's one of the problems as I see it with this game.
You would think that doing right by cannon ships would mean more cannon ships and less alien ship riff raff, like we see parked around spacedock and q'onos.
They already did right by cannon ships. They're called escorts and battlecruisers.
Oh, you mean canon ships! Oh, that's very different! Never mind.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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No, it's about appealing to underlying game imbalance by wanting to change a ship. There's nothing wrong with the Galaxy at all. What IS messed up are the console values, the BOFF ability selection, and the gameplay focus.
If you want the Galaxy to become more tactical, don't hold your breath.
No, it's about appealing to underlying game imbalance by wanting to change a ship. There's nothing wrong with the Galaxy at all. What IS messed up are the console values, the BOFF ability selection, and the gameplay focus.
If you want the Galaxy to become more tactical, don't hold your breath.
it is not the ship, it is the entire game...well, sure!:rolleyes:
and there is not just the tactical way to change the galaxy retrofit you known, anyway if you think kryptic will change his entire game for the galaxy retrofit to better fit in, don't hold your breath either.
Agreed. If there were missions at end game where say you had to hold position to get the objective then a tank would actually have some use. Even if there are better ships for that task.
Problem then though, is that someone would say that you don't need to hold an area if you can blast the enemies out of space before they have a chance to even take the objective area. Unless they make a King of the Hill STF.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Look at me I'm a target!" "Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK! "How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?" My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
Agreed. If there were missions at end game where say you had to hold position to get the objective then a tank would actually have some use. Even if there are better ships for that task.
Or keep from completely losing an optional. Especially in PuGs.
There was one Mirror instance where my engineer kept the station from going offline by tanking and healing. Orbited above the station in a Venture-X, constantly throwing heals/extend shields to Vathil, running the draw fire cruiser command and BFaW and drawing aggro until the rest of the team got their s**t together and came to the rescue.
It was a desperation move and I still can't believe that I pulled it off. I suppose there ARE limited circumstances where tanks can be useful in PvE.
Agreed. If there were missions at end game where say you had to hold position to get the objective then a tank would actually have some use. Even if there are better ships for that task.
CCE?
Hold position, heal escorts. My Fleet Galaxy (aux2bat nonetheless) got first place numerous times just for doing this.
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it is not the ship, it is the entire game...well, sure!:rolleyes:
and there is not just the tactical way to change the galaxy retrofit you known, anyway if you think kryptic will change his entire game for the galaxy retrofit to better fit in, don't hold your breath either.
They already did. The change to the Team system was rolled out at the same time as the Galaxy update. It made the ship's layout a lot more bearable, but it's still redundant.
I was under the impression that, canon wise, the D'Deridex, Galaxy, and Vor'cha were all prominent ships in their time? The Negh'Var was introduced into the prime universe much later than the D'Deridex or Galaxy.
I do agree with the boff setup you mentioned though. Cryptic made a good move with the D'Deridex boff setup. If only they could apply that to the Gal-R and Negh'Var (and fleet versions).
They were all prominent ships, but only the Galaxy, D'Deridex and Negh'Var are in the same weight class so to speak.
Like DDIS said, the Negh'Var was the first Klingon vessel to emphasize independent operations. All ships prior, even the Vor'Cha, were designed to function in groups. The Negh'Var was a late response since it didn't sit well with the proud Klingons that the Federation would have a much larger and powerful flagship. The Sovereign Class was a "step back" in time for Starfleet, though, since it much more resembles the Vor'Cha design approach. Starfleet vessels are usually not designed to work in groups but function on their own as a basic design principle. The Sovereign is still a Starfleet cruiser in it's best way but looses bulk and firepower in order to be more manneuvreable and be more dynamic when working in groups of two or more.
In terms of their primary combat role, the Galaxy, D'D and Negh'Var are steamrollers. Immense firepower that just plows through the enemy lines but all of those ships lack agility and offer sensitive weakpoints for swarming groups of opponents, the D'D and Negh'Var even more since their weapons seem to be focussed for an all-forward attack while the Galaxy's main arrays at least cover a huge area on all sides. Sovereigns and Vor'Chas are more of traditional battlecruisers, flanking and disrupting enemy formations. The Romulans (post TMP) really didn't get any major ship design until the dreadful tenth movie. Until then, they seem to only rely on D'D warbirds with sophisticated cloaking tech to catch opponents off guard and blow them away.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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Until then, they seem to only rely on D'D warbirds with sophisticated cloaking tech to catch opponents off guard and blow them away.
the d'deridex is especially interesting among the 3, because it appears to so totally depend on its cloaking device and surprise when it attacks things. late in the dominion war, when you see them being used as ships of the line, they just get hammered. over and over they have shown poor survivability when out in the open, receiving MUCH more damage when hit then kdf and fed hulls. in TNG, the posturing instead of actually fighting show, after they had decloaked and made their threats, the romulan commanders were very wary to actually get in a fight from that point, unless they outnumbered the enterprise. proboly because of how screwed they would be if a galaxy full array discharge hit anywhere on their hull.
they seem to be built to deliver an overpowering blow from cloak and end the fight before the enemy can fight back, thus the output on that massively powerful forward canon its got. credited in 1 episode of destroying DS9 in a single pass, wile its shields were down. the station was later able to tank and hull tank klingon and dominion fleets later, but not long before all it took was 1 d'deridex. in tin man it was able to strip 10% of a galaxy class's shields per shot too.
im only just a little very disappointed the d'deridex in game is another super fat tank with quite possibly the highest hitpoints if i recall right. way to go, again, on that paying close attention to how the ship did in canon cyptic, and for not putting the DHC hard points on top of each other on the nose, again bravo.
wile im on the subject of romulan ships, they also go the scimitar hilariously wrong too! not only is the model scaled about 20% to large, but it also gets to be the god ship the fan boys seem to think it is. as if overpowering a sovereign is somehow the most impressive thing ever, because 'everybody' just assumes its the most powerful thing out there, when thats not even close. unlike the d'deridex, the scimitar was armed primarily with a large number of small guns, covering every single fireing arc. because these are cannons, fired out of gun barrels, and not arrays that have fireing arc with everything in their line of sight, it takes a lot of them to cover these arcs. in the battle, you see it plinking away over and over again, witting all the ships down with a bunch of relatively small shots, firieng from every angle like i said, even an obscure angle like strait up, when it did that fake out to the valdor. there was no d'deridex tier guns on this ship, its a super weapon cradle, designed to fight off multiple lesser attackers wile it delivers its superweapon to the target, not go toe to toe with the various big gun battleships of the 3 factions. it would lose to all 3 of them.
after seeing how the enterpise-F is loaded out (and the other 2 the bortasqu' has 2 cannon boff powers but only one cannon) i now see why the D was portrayed as so weak. it probably was outfitted with a similarly TRIBBLE set up by cryptic
when picard got the E he probably set it up himself instead of using what cryptic gave him making it just appear to be a god ship he just was no longer a fresh 50 and completed all the reps and with his 8 space passives became uber elite
They already did. The change to the Team system was rolled out at the same time as the Galaxy update. It made the ship's layout a lot more bearable, but it's still redundant.
no, they did not.
he was speaking about console value, boff abilities and gameplay focus. these have remained the same.
the removal of the share cooldown in team abilitie do improve the galaxy overall, but so daes it for the exelsior, and i don't even mention ship with a lt commander eng and science ( tact team+ eng team3 + science team 3:eek:)
in the end, for the galaxy you still have to choose between HE, TSS and now ST.
wich one, one will remove?
Or keep from completely losing an optional. Especially in PuGs.
There was one Mirror instance where my engineer kept the station from going offline by tanking and healing. Orbited above the station in a Venture-X, constantly throwing heals/extend shields to Vathil, running the draw fire cruiser command and BFaW and drawing aggro until the rest of the team got their s**t together and came to the rescue.
It was a desperation move and I still can't believe that I pulled it off. I suppose there ARE limited circumstances where tanks can be useful in PvE.
i do exactly that with an alt engi in a galaxy x, but this circumstance have been made possible only because we were with news/unexperimented players or that they played with abandoned toons that are undegear.
with a normal or a good team this scenario will not be possible.
no, they did not.
he was speaking about console value, boff abilities and gameplay focus. these have remained the same.
the removal of the share cooldown in team abilitie do improve the galaxy overall, but so daes it for the exelsior, and i don't even mention ship with a lt commander eng and science ( tact team+ eng team3 + science team 3:eek:)
in the end, for the galaxy you still have to choose between HE, TSS and now ST.
wich one, one will remove?
the galaxy R benefited a tiny amount from the system cooldown change, MUCH less then ships with just 2 ENS eng, those can actually use ET3. or cruisers with an LTC sci, which like you mentioned could use ET3 and ST3. everything benefited from the change, the galaxy actually benefited the least, of all ships! it really is amazing when you think about it.
it is not the ship, it is the entire game...well, sure!:rolleyes:
Yes, it in fact is. That is why the game was referred to as "Escorts Online" a not even year ago. That's why tactical console slots and BOFF seats are more valuable overall than other options. That's why Cruisers now have comm arrays and Science Vessels have secondary deflectors and an improved sensor scan and Escorts, Raptors, etc got nothing. That's why there has been a drastic change in gameplay of new PvE queue events recently compared to old queues. The game is way imbalanced favoring tactical gameplay while science and engineering aspects are belittled, and the devs have been taking measures to rebalance it.
and there is not just the tactical way to change the galaxy retrofit you known, anyway if you think kryptic will change his entire game for the galaxy retrofit to better fit in, don't hold your breath either.
The Galaxy isn't the only problem. It's just the biggest. And fixing the imbalance I'm referring to will not only fix the Galaxy.
And holding my breath for a rebalance? Actually, they've been implementing rebalances along the lines of this logic for a while. See the several examples earlier in this very post.
They already did. The change to the Team system was rolled out at the same time as the Galaxy update. It made the ship's layout a lot more bearable, but it's still redundant.
It's a step in the right direction.
Bottom line: Change the game to where EVERY 10-console combination is useful and every existing BOFF seating is useful and you'll have a more diverse range of choices. But if you downplay science and engineering, you'll cut your choices into a fraction of what they could be. And diversity of choices is part of what makes a healthy MMORPG environment.
Like I said in my thread, one of the possible solution would be able to use the Galaxy parts for the dreadnought (and the fleet one) in the ship customization menu at ESD. Of course only if you own the bundle. So you can have the dreadnought that look like the Galaxy if you want.
We can do the same with the other bundles, why not this one?
Comments
Why does this thread still exist?
Oh wait. Never mind. It's still plenty young. It's certainly not...
:cool:
as old as the Galaxy-class.
That makes sense, and I would be okay with this.
im just going to assume this joke is being used because its april 1, and this person isn't actually serious.
True. From what we saw of the Negh'Var in the prime universe, it was a rarely seen command ship with a lot of firepower - almost like the KDF contemporary of the Sovereign. Neither were a key player in the War, just the flagship of their fleets.
As for Vor'cha offensive capabilities, they seem to be on equal footing with a Galaxy. In fact, from scenes in the Dominion War, they sometimes had the burst fire capability on par with a Defiant. Around TNG though, they were only in a limited run (similar to how there were originally 6 Galaxys and 6 empty frames).
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
You would think that doing right by cannon ships would mean more cannon ships and less alien ship riff raff, like we see parked around spacedock and q'onos.
The problem I see is, they don't want cannon ships to compete sales-wise with the latest alien ships. (most of which come out of lock boxes).
Which is kinda stupid, because even now, I would pay for yet ANOTHER Galaxy pack.
Perhaps one that would cater to each career, (like the Odysseys)
The Galaxies were supposed to be flexible, and module, so a three pack makes canon sense.
I think there is STILL a money making opportunity with the Galaxy x, it's a shame they can't see it though, and it's a shame they keep trying to sell us things we don't want instead. That's one of the problems as I see it with this game.
You can always read other threads! :-) instead of posting here!
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And fixing the best ship.
They already did right by cannon ships. They're called escorts and battlecruisers.
Oh, you mean canon ships! Oh, that's very different! Never mind.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Pretty much.
If you want the Galaxy to become more tactical, don't hold your breath.
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it is not the ship, it is the entire game...well, sure!:rolleyes:
and there is not just the tactical way to change the galaxy retrofit you known, anyway if you think kryptic will change his entire game for the galaxy retrofit to better fit in, don't hold your breath either.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Problem then though, is that someone would say that you don't need to hold an area if you can blast the enemies out of space before they have a chance to even take the objective area. Unless they make a King of the Hill STF.
"Look at me I'm a target!"
"Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK!
"How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?"
My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
Or keep from completely losing an optional. Especially in PuGs.
There was one Mirror instance where my engineer kept the station from going offline by tanking and healing. Orbited above the station in a Venture-X, constantly throwing heals/extend shields to Vathil, running the draw fire cruiser command and BFaW and drawing aggro until the rest of the team got their s**t together and came to the rescue.
It was a desperation move and I still can't believe that I pulled it off. I suppose there ARE limited circumstances where tanks can be useful in PvE.
CCE?
Hold position, heal escorts. My Fleet Galaxy (aux2bat nonetheless) got first place numerous times just for doing this.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
They already did. The change to the Team system was rolled out at the same time as the Galaxy update. It made the ship's layout a lot more bearable, but it's still redundant.
They were all prominent ships, but only the Galaxy, D'Deridex and Negh'Var are in the same weight class so to speak.
Like DDIS said, the Negh'Var was the first Klingon vessel to emphasize independent operations. All ships prior, even the Vor'Cha, were designed to function in groups. The Negh'Var was a late response since it didn't sit well with the proud Klingons that the Federation would have a much larger and powerful flagship. The Sovereign Class was a "step back" in time for Starfleet, though, since it much more resembles the Vor'Cha design approach. Starfleet vessels are usually not designed to work in groups but function on their own as a basic design principle. The Sovereign is still a Starfleet cruiser in it's best way but looses bulk and firepower in order to be more manneuvreable and be more dynamic when working in groups of two or more.
In terms of their primary combat role, the Galaxy, D'D and Negh'Var are steamrollers. Immense firepower that just plows through the enemy lines but all of those ships lack agility and offer sensitive weakpoints for swarming groups of opponents, the D'D and Negh'Var even more since their weapons seem to be focussed for an all-forward attack while the Galaxy's main arrays at least cover a huge area on all sides. Sovereigns and Vor'Chas are more of traditional battlecruisers, flanking and disrupting enemy formations. The Romulans (post TMP) really didn't get any major ship design until the dreadful tenth movie. Until then, they seem to only rely on D'D warbirds with sophisticated cloaking tech to catch opponents off guard and blow them away.
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the d'deridex is especially interesting among the 3, because it appears to so totally depend on its cloaking device and surprise when it attacks things. late in the dominion war, when you see them being used as ships of the line, they just get hammered. over and over they have shown poor survivability when out in the open, receiving MUCH more damage when hit then kdf and fed hulls. in TNG, the posturing instead of actually fighting show, after they had decloaked and made their threats, the romulan commanders were very wary to actually get in a fight from that point, unless they outnumbered the enterprise. proboly because of how screwed they would be if a galaxy full array discharge hit anywhere on their hull.
they seem to be built to deliver an overpowering blow from cloak and end the fight before the enemy can fight back, thus the output on that massively powerful forward canon its got. credited in 1 episode of destroying DS9 in a single pass, wile its shields were down. the station was later able to tank and hull tank klingon and dominion fleets later, but not long before all it took was 1 d'deridex. in tin man it was able to strip 10% of a galaxy class's shields per shot too.
im only just a little very disappointed the d'deridex in game is another super fat tank with quite possibly the highest hitpoints if i recall right. way to go, again, on that paying close attention to how the ship did in canon cyptic, and for not putting the DHC hard points on top of each other on the nose, again bravo.
wile im on the subject of romulan ships, they also go the scimitar hilariously wrong too! not only is the model scaled about 20% to large, but it also gets to be the god ship the fan boys seem to think it is. as if overpowering a sovereign is somehow the most impressive thing ever, because 'everybody' just assumes its the most powerful thing out there, when thats not even close. unlike the d'deridex, the scimitar was armed primarily with a large number of small guns, covering every single fireing arc. because these are cannons, fired out of gun barrels, and not arrays that have fireing arc with everything in their line of sight, it takes a lot of them to cover these arcs. in the battle, you see it plinking away over and over again, witting all the ships down with a bunch of relatively small shots, firieng from every angle like i said, even an obscure angle like strait up, when it did that fake out to the valdor. there was no d'deridex tier guns on this ship, its a super weapon cradle, designed to fight off multiple lesser attackers wile it delivers its superweapon to the target, not go toe to toe with the various big gun battleships of the 3 factions. it would lose to all 3 of them.
when picard got the E he probably set it up himself instead of using what cryptic gave him making it just appear to be a god ship he just was no longer a fresh 50 and completed all the reps and with his 8 space passives became uber elite
no, they did not.
he was speaking about console value, boff abilities and gameplay focus. these have remained the same.
the removal of the share cooldown in team abilitie do improve the galaxy overall, but so daes it for the exelsior, and i don't even mention ship with a lt commander eng and science ( tact team+ eng team3 + science team 3:eek:)
in the end, for the galaxy you still have to choose between HE, TSS and now ST.
wich one, one will remove?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
i do exactly that with an alt engi in a galaxy x, but this circumstance have been made possible only because we were with news/unexperimented players or that they played with abandoned toons that are undegear.
with a normal or a good team this scenario will not be possible.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
the galaxy R benefited a tiny amount from the system cooldown change, MUCH less then ships with just 2 ENS eng, those can actually use ET3. or cruisers with an LTC sci, which like you mentioned could use ET3 and ST3. everything benefited from the change, the galaxy actually benefited the least, of all ships! it really is amazing when you think about it.
The Galaxy isn't the only problem. It's just the biggest. And fixing the imbalance I'm referring to will not only fix the Galaxy.
And holding my breath for a rebalance? Actually, they've been implementing rebalances along the lines of this logic for a while. See the several examples earlier in this very post.
It's a step in the right direction.
Bottom line: Change the game to where EVERY 10-console combination is useful and every existing BOFF seating is useful and you'll have a more diverse range of choices. But if you downplay science and engineering, you'll cut your choices into a fraction of what they could be. And diversity of choices is part of what makes a healthy MMORPG environment.
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We can do the same with the other bundles, why not this one?
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Considering I main the Dreadnought, they are VERY different.
Boldly going where no thread has gone before.
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