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Official feedback thread for the Kit Revamp

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  • martakurillmartakurill Member Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It is absolutely unacceptable to be adding additional bonuses to these kits and forcing us to make a second massive fleet purchase to replace them.

    I demand, literally demand retroactivity on fleet kits. This is BS. Fleet kits are insanely expensive at mk xii and replacing them just because you want to make them both modular (as well as giving them additional bonuses, wtf?) as well as customizable is a direct insult to those of us that still spend money to support this game.

    You make those fleet purchases I made this month retroactive and apply them to the 10 spire kits I just bought last week or you just closed my very deep wallet to your company. Most people are just now completing the spire and getting those kits, and only NOW do we learn those kits are not going to be grandfathered in? Thats utter horsecrap.

    I would STRONGLY advise you add a function to the fleet store that allows us to trade in an existing fleet kit for the new modular variant of the same mark and type. You just completely screwed me over, and im not at all happy about this one.

    Did you even consider the people that were buying the newest ones right now?

    Do NOT expect me to pay more money or time to repurchase something I JUST bought.

    Agreed 100%. I simply do not want to have to grind for the same item more than once. The time spent and resource costs are simply too high here.

    Consider too that we're also going to have to pay (dilithium probably), to get Mk XI modules to achieve the same functionality we currently have on holodeck. So its not like this isn't going to be a resource sink anyway. At least by giving us "trade-in credit" on the fleet kits we have (many of which are relatively new!), this would feel like less of an insult.
  • mikiiymikiiy Member Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The Mark XII (and I think Mark XI as well, but could be mistaken as I'm writing from home) kits have five module slots. While before you had a 4 Research kit, you can now use a 4 Research, 1 Medic kit and gain an extra Medic power.

    It seems spire and embassy kits transformed into 3/2 variants, where will mk xii 4/1 be from?
    We experimented with mono-specialization kits, but they didn't really offer interesting choices or builds, in my opinion. They kind of pushed people too far into a corner, gameplay wise, to feel really good to me.

    When it comes to pvp mono-specialization kits is exactly what people would go for and they would most likely be a balancing issue. However what about those that exist already and aren't possible to build anymore with the new system?

    Like in example the spire physicist kit would be a 5/0, so after this revamp it wouldn't be possible to build that anymore, wouldn't it make sense to keep the old kit in the store then so newer toons have a chance to get that too?
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    tk79 wrote: »
    I disagree with you, and I am inclined to believe you guys did it for balance reasons. Hence the emphasis in the above quote.

    It's what min-maxers do: go far into a corner.

    Because, admit it, a 5-slot Mechanical kit would be a little too powerful:

    - Weapons Malf
    - Chroniton Barrier Mine
    - Transphasic Bomb
    - Shield Recharge
    - Equip Diagnostics

    Full Shield Tanking and bombing capabilities? Yes please!

    In my playstyle, I have no use for any Fabrication powers whatsoever. They are a nuisance, IMO, and also a danger (more chain targets to hit, fab explosions hitting owner, etc). I am still trying to figure which Fabricator power I'm going to use in my kit, and I can't see any reasonable choices. Maybe except for Force Field Dome, but I am still losing something else (better) for it.

    Bottom line: mono-specialization kits can offer interesting choices for builds and can be good, if not too much.

    Wouldn't the stronger choice to 5/0 or 4/1 kits be to instead, selectively, make a handful of the kit powers universal, either type agnostic or even class agnostic?

    A 5/0 kit does risk being too powerful but you can accomplish something similar with support builds by making some modules (I'd suggest support or niche builds like melee) usable in any slot.
  • suavekssuaveks Member Posts: 1,736 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I see that all old Spire/Embassy kits remain unchanged if we already purchased them, but after this change they'll no longer be available and'll be replaced with new kits with additional passive powers.

    So basically... you expect us to buy those kits again? As in, "a new iPad is out, your old one is now obsolete, go get yourself a new one"?

    In all seriousness though, would it be possible to add an option for existing Spire/Embassy kits to be exchanged for their new equivalents at the "Prototype Console Vendor" (or whatever it's called - the NPC that allows you to exchange old items)?

    I mean, I already bought several Mk XII kits recently for my characters, and now I hear they'll going to be replaced with a better variant, which I've got to buy again? That's not cool, considering the price of those kits (Fleet Credits, Dilithium, Provisions). I really suggest looking into the possibility of allowing players to turn them in for either a new variant, or some kind of equivalent currency value.
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  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mikiiy wrote: »
    Like in example the spire physicist kit would be a 5/0, so after this revamp it wouldn't be possible to build that anymore, wouldn't it make sense to keep the old kit in the store then so newer toons have a chance to get that too?
    They could make 5/0 kit the fleet elite thing
  • i8472i8472 Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I know lot of work went into this.

    Go into the Data base. select all
    common and uncommon modules I - XII+ and then Delete???

    keep all Rare, very rare, ultra rare, and unique modules?


    change some modules to fit any place? "universal" modules"?

    make bunch of vendors also carry all the kit stuff????


    add new ones?

    increase their EC value by 5% => 1000%?




    And have a Great Day?
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It is absolutely unacceptable to be adding additional bonuses to these kits and forcing us to make a second massive fleet purchase to replace them.

    I demand, literally demand retroactivity on fleet kits. This is BS. Fleet kits are insanely expensive at mk xii and replacing them just because you want to make them both modular (as well as giving them additional bonuses, wtf?) as well as customizable is a direct insult to those of us that still spend money to support this game.

    You make those fleet purchases I made this month retroactive and apply them to the 10 spire kits I just bought last week or you just closed my very deep wallet to your company. Most people are just now completing the spire and getting those kits, and only NOW do we learn those kits are not going to be grandfathered in? Thats utter horsecrap.

    I would STRONGLY advise you add a function to the fleet store that allows us to trade in an existing fleet kit for the new modular variant of the same mark and type. You just completely screwed me over, and im not at all happy about this one.

    Did you even consider the people that were buying the newest ones right now?

    Do NOT expect me to pay more money or time to repurchase something I JUST bought. Not gonna happen.

    Thats all.

    Have to agree as well. Shelling out those resources only to be told "lolz 2bad4u" is pretty terrible. I only have 1 Spire kit, but I'm still not happy about this.
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    Mine Trap Supporter
  • nobscunobscu Member Posts: 136 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I would like to see a way of trading in the current fleet kits for the amount it cost to purchase them. A sort of refund, if it can be possible. A similar system to the Andorian Prototype Weapons.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I am hoping for some Fleet contacts where you can trade in your old Fleet Kits for the new version like the Prototype Science Consoles to GPL Ferengi contact.

    The better method would be convert all old Fleet Kits to the new system, but have it slotted with every ability the old Fleet Kits have with the IV power locked in. So the powers of the new and old Fleet Kits would be completely identical at the start. So the Romulan Fabrication Specialist Kit Mk XII will have Turret Fabrication 4, Medical Fabrication 3, Quantum Mortar Fabrication 3, Seeker Drone Fabrication 3, and Quick Fix 2, but only Turret Fabrication 4 can't be replaced with some other power. The Turret Fabrication 4 Kit Module would also be available in the Embassy Fleet Kit Store so people could create a Fleet Kit using all the Fleet Kit powers like Turret Fabrication 4, Chroniton Mine Barrier 4, and Shield Generator Fabrication 4.

    This could be done for every single old kit in the game. Have the old kits still available, but we can customize the slots if we want to. So players that don't touch the Kit Revamp will just experience a slight graphical change by their Kit slot and players that want to immediately get into the Kit Revamp system would have a bunch of Kits and Powers to choose from due to their current Mk X kits instead of having to hunt for the right modules and right kit.
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mikiiy wrote: »
    It seems spire and embassy kits transformed into 3/2 variants, where will mk xii 4/1 be from?

    I think the 4/1 kits are supposed to drop. They might be available from vendors too, but they haven't updated the vendors yet. Really, they should update vendors, the dilithium store, and crafting so that we can see what will be easily available and what we will have to scour the Exchange for.
    mikiiy wrote: »
    Like in example the spire physicist kit would be a 5/0, so after this revamp it wouldn't be possible to build that anymore, wouldn't it make sense to keep the old kit in the store then so newer toons have a chance to get that too?

    I made the same point a few pages back. For consistency, I think they should add both 5/0 and 4/0 kits.

    My other concern is that there will be many kits with useless modifiers. Imagine a 4/1 kit with skill bonuses that benefit kit abilities you only have one slot for.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
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  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I found another bug: You cannot use double-click to switch between two kits with copies of the same ability. See the bug report below.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1051311
    Waiting for a programmer ...
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  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    frtoaster wrote: »
    I found another bug: You cannot use double-click to switch between two kits with copies of the same ability. See the bug report below.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1051311

    Okay that is pretty bad.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • neotrident12neotrident12 Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I don't like that, not one bit. There are times in STFs when swapping between Fabrication and Enemy Neutralisation Kits half way through is essential, plus the ability to hot swap devices particularly Hypos is essential too.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lhoygowlhoygow Member Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    It's possible within the system, but a cross-career kit slot would be extremely powerful. A universal kit slot would be even more powerful. It's something we've planned around making eventually, but not something we're going to roll out with the launch of the revamp.

    I for one hope this never happens, career specific abilities should stay within that career.
  • lhoygowlhoygow Member Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The interim marks add slots up from 1 until they reach 5 slots. You can generally find a kit frame to accommodate whatever playstyle you want to play within your career.

    I have a question on the slots. Are all kits able to slot very rare modules or will the different kits per rank be limited as to the rank they can support? And if limited, can you break down by Tier how that is? In other words, does a MK XII kit support 5 very rare capable slots or is it 1 VR, 3 R and 1 U, which would match the MK XII fleet kits out now?

    And as has been said by other players, I too would like to see kits that are all one type. By not including such kits kind of goes against your statement above of satisfying whatever play style we choose.
  • neotrident12neotrident12 Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    There needs to be some means of converting our current kits to the new ones in full otherwise it is an extremely expensive change and frankly would annoy practically everyone. Particularly when with the current kits you get 5 powers all very rare and high level, whereas on the new kit for the same price you only get the frame and ONE power. This would make building an equivalent kit ridiculously expensive, the new Fleet Kits need to come with all 5 modules and there needs to be a means of conversion.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • no09dysonsphereno09dysonsphere Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    There needs to be some means of converting our current kits to the new ones in full otherwise it is an extremely expensive change and frankly would annoy practically everyone. Particularly when with the current kits you get 5 powers all very rare and high level, whereas on the new kit for the same price you only get the frame and ONE power. This would make building an equivalent kit ridiculously expensive, the new Fleet Kits need to come with all 5 modules and there needs to be a means of conversion.

    Good luck, people with VR Mk XII tactical consoles weren't compensated when the spire tactical consoles came out, what makes you think this would be any different?

    My only concern is that the new system is supposed to be completely opt-in, but the bonus encourages the do it yourself kits and discourages the prefabricated kits. I personally like using a prefabricated kit and not having to mess with collecting the powers separately, and I'm disappointed this play style will no longer be supported at all :(
  • neotrident12neotrident12 Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The difference being that there were no Fleet versions of Tac Consoles before Fleet Tac Consoles came out, the difference being that existing Tac Consoles were not changed or removed instead new ones came out in addition. You got what you paid for with Fleet Tac consoles, with the new kits you don't.

    They are not adding new kits to the Fleet stores they are replacing Kits from the stores with substantially reduced versions at the same cost.

    Old 60k FC / 20k Dil MK XII VR 5 powers
    New 60k FC / 20k Dil MK XII VR 1 power (Find 4 other powers at VR MK XII for EC or Dil)

    In short we get shafted.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • no09dysonsphereno09dysonsphere Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The difference being that there were no Fleet versions of Tac Consoles before Fleet Tac Consoles came out, the difference being that existing Tac Consoles were not changed or removed instead new ones came out in addition. You got what you paid for with Fleet Tac consoles, with the new kits you don't.

    They are not adding new kits to the Fleet stores they are replacing Kits from the stores with substantially reduced versions at the same cost.

    Old 60k FC / 20k Dil MK XII VR 5 powers
    New 60k FC / 20k Dil MK XII VR 1 power (Find 4 other powers at VR MK XII for EC or Dil)

    In short we get shafted.

    You got exactly what you paid for. The spire kits haven't been nerfed or changed in any way, they are exactly the same on tribble as they are on holodeck, only now a better item has come out that renders it obsolete and requires us to pay more, exactly like what happened with the tactical consoles.

    I don't like the hassle and cost of collecting powers at VR MK XII either (especially if the way to doing it is comparable to the ridiculousness of the Drozana console RNG), which is why I hope there will still be kits available in season 9 under the old system comparable to the kits we can create under the new system for those of us who wish not to opt in to the new system, but I've given my feedback and we'll see.
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Sorry but no it's not like the XII VR consoles at all. You can still acquire XII VR consoles even if they've become 'outmoded' by superior fleet consoles. All current kits will be removed from crafting, drops, and stores and you will no longer be able to acquire them under the new system. It also sounds like you'll be required to hunt and scout and spend for all of the equivalent modules for the new kits instead of having them come on the kit itself which will increase their cost and time-to-acquire several-fold compared to the fixed time/cost of crafting or fleet kits right now.


    You are correct to say that all of the existing kits will still work fine, just like the XII consoles still work the way they always did but think of it from the perspective of a new player that doesn't already have a level 50 character with all of the kits they desire. They are the ones that this will impact the most even though I'm already set for life with the kits I've already acquired.

    Joined January 2009
    Finger wrote:
    Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
  • entnx01entnx01 Member Posts: 548 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'll be totally honest here...

    GOOD:
    * It allows customization where customization never was. Instead of being forced into specific abilities, we can at least choose from a grouping of those abilities.

    * The kits now act almost like ship consoles, boosting ground stats.

    BAD:
    * When I buy a kit, I like knowing what I have. This is especially true of Embassy and Spire Kits. If I'm spending good FC and Dilithium on these kits, I want a kit where everything I need is included. I don't like having to hunt down pieces to make my kit. I'd suggest either keeping a selection of "non-moduled" kits and perhaps adding a ground skill modifier to those kits OR making certain levels of kits (especially Embassy and Spire) have all the necessary modules pre-loaded so you don't have to hunt for pieces unless you want to.

    * The modules take up inventory space. No wonder we got 12-18 free extra Inventory spaces a few weeks ago but I like to have sellable loot in my inventory for the most part. Yes, I do realize this is a necessary evil to the module mechanic. Perhaps I'm just an old, curmudgeonly player in this respect. :p
  • specter153specter153 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    for the kit revamps will there be any modules that a player can obtain in the reputation system for example uin the task force omega can there be something like a ambush ability that can grant a player a 20% damage buff vs borg or something?
  • captainvallentcaptainvallent Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I asked this somewhere else and didn't get an answer, which makes me think I should have asked it here.

    I'm not seeing where these new Kits are.
    I went to Drozana station, as instructed. I went to the Testing Special Items Console.
    All that's here are the Dyson Stuff, some Warbirds and the Rep Sponsor Tokens.

    Is there another place I should be looking? Or are they no longer up for testing?
    Thanks!
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I asked this somewhere else and didn't get an answer, which makes me think I should have asked it here.

    I'm not seeing where these new Kits are.
    I went to Drozana station, as instructed. I went to the Testing Special Items Console.
    All that's here are the Dyson Stuff, some Warbirds and the Rep Sponsor Tokens.

    Is there another place I should be looking? Or are they no longer up for testing?
    Thanks!

    It is the last tab in that console. If I remember correctly.
  • josephdridgewayjosephdridgeway Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    starkaos wrote: »
    It is the last tab in that console. If I remember correctly.
    No, it's not. The last tab is for Reputation Tokens.
    Fleet Admiral Joseph D. Ridgeway
    The Armada
    Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
    Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
  • merescintillamerescintilla Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    entnx01 wrote: »
    BAD:
    * When I buy a kit, I like knowing what I have. This is especially true of Embassy and Spire Kits. If I'm spending good FC and Dilithium on these kits, I want a kit where everything I need is included. I don't like having to hunt down pieces to make my kit. I'd suggest either keeping a selection of "non-moduled" kits and perhaps adding a ground skill modifier to those kits OR making certain levels of kits (especially Embassy and Spire) have all the necessary modules pre-loaded so you don't have to hunt for pieces unless you want to.

    I agree, the old fleet kits need to be updated with the new passive bonuses and made available as an option for those who don't want to hunt down pieces to make kits.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I agree, the old fleet kits need to be updated with the new passive bonuses and made available as an option for those who don't want to hunt down pieces to make kits.

    That would be nice. Also, can all the cosmetics be used on Bridge Officers now, or are they still limited?
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    No, it's not. The last tab is for Reputation Tokens.

    The Kits were removed from that console with the last patch for whatever reason. ESD has Kits available from the EC Vendor and Modules from the dilithium vendors and store. The only differences between the test console Kits and the regular Kits is that test console kits have a skill bonus while the regular kits don't and the test console modules are slightly better than the regular modules since the test console modules are Mk X and the regular modules are Mk IX.
    That would be nice. Also, can all the cosmetics be used on Bridge Officers now, or are they still limited?

    The cosmetics on the Bridge Officers seems to be limited. There are currently 3 armor options for the Bridge Officers like Suit - Alpha - Type 1, Suit - Beta - Type 1, etc, but tons of armor options for our Captains and there is a limited selection of kit options available for our Bridge Officers compared to tons of options for our Captains with some categories missing like Back.
  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,801 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The first thing I noticed when I tested this patch is that one of my kit powers was removed.

    Since I was unable to claim the "alleged test items" on Drozana, I improvised by using the Dilithium store and visual inspections of the kit vendors on the Embassy, NPC kit store and the Spire.

    The results were fairly disappointing.

    I can rebuild the kit with the new parts, but in order to do so, I'll have to remove the Grenade Power it had before this patch.

    None of the Spire or Embassy Kits could resolve this problem.

    As I understand it, the problem is that the Motion Accelerator Module is classified as an Assault Module, not a Strategic Module.
    Which doesn't make sense to me, as it's not capable of damaging enemies.

    If it was a Strategic module, then the Spire/Embassy kits would be compatible, as I could equip it and have 3 slots left for my Assault Modules.

    Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
    Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad :'(
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I would like to see a way for captain training to be incorporated into the modules somehow. Something like, captains can create modules that are bound-to-char (for use on their own toons). That gives some reward for learning the skill points, but still requires player interaction for training peoples BOFFs.

    [Long-term I would rather see captains be given ability slots, the same way that BOFFs have them, and use that as a way to limit the amount of ability spamming, but under the current "kit" design for captains, this seems like a reasonable compromise, rewarding captains for training up skills.]
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