Official feedback thread for the Kit Revamp

coldsnapped

Please use this thread to post bugs and feedback for the Kit Revamp on Tribble. You may go to the test console on Drozana station to obtain some test kits.

The Kit Revamp is still a work in progress.

Kit Revamp:

• The Kit system has been overhauled!
  • New Kits now allow you to add Modules to them.
    • Kits and Modules exist from Mark I to Mark XII and in Common, Uncommon, Rare, and Very Rare qualities.
    • Kits can provide skill bonuses to either general Ground skills or career-specific Ground skills:
      • Higher rarity kits provide a larger number of discrete bonuses
      • Higher Mark kits provide a larger magnitude of skill with each bonus
      • Higher Mark kits contain more slots for Kit Modules
  • Kit Modules are a new type of item, consisting of a single power.
    • Each module belongs to a Career (Science, Engineering, or Tactical) and a Specialization.
      • Each Career is made up of two Specializations:
        • Science
          • Research Modules emphasize experimental new science-based control and damage effects
          • Medic Modules focus on healing wounds and supporting teammates
        • Engineering
          • Fabrications Modules allow Engineers to create temporary constructions
          • Mechanic Modules focus on using devices to enhance allies or impair foes
        • Tactical
          • Assault Modules focus on direct damage and explosive effects
          • Strategic Modules emphasize the battlefield planning and control abilities of the user
      • Modules of a given Specialization can only slot into Kits with an open slot of that Specialization type.
        • For example, “Turret Fabrication” is a Fabrication-type Module.
        • It can be slotted into Fabrication slots in any Engineering Kit, but cannot be slotted into Mechanic slots in any Engineering Kit.
  • Basic Common-quality Kits and Modules are available from Ground vendors for Energy Credits
  • All qualities of Kits and Modules drop from ground enemies as reward possibilities.
  • Fleet Holding Kits have been updated to provide a purple-quality Kit with a pre-slotted purple-quality Module of the power that was previously a “Mark IV” power.
    • These are equivalent in power to their previous versions.
  • For testing purposes, the test console on Drozana Station will provide anyone with random assortments of level-appropriate kits and modules as many times as the tester desires.

direphoenix

!!!!!!

That is all.

ssargon

Looks interesting. Is there anything on the table for allowing captains to slot a single low-level abilitiy outside of their career? I have a pyromaniac Sci who'd love to lob plasma grenades around his exothermic fields.

adjudicatorhawk

ssargon wrote: »

Looks interesting. Is there anything on the table for allowing captains to slot a single low-level abilitiy outside of their career? I have a pyromaniac Sci who'd love to lob plasma grenades around his exothermic fields.

It's possible within the system, but a cross-career kit slot would be extremely powerful. A universal kit slot would be even more powerful. It's something we've planned around making eventually, but not something we're going to roll out with the launch of the revamp.

mightybobcnc

Still, it's good to know you future-proofed the code to allow it if you ever decide to do it.

idkode

Just playing around with kits on Drozana there... the possibilities are extremely good. It's still quite confusing to use, such as dragging and dropping skills into the slots so they work but I can't tell if that's awkward graphics and or whether it's just because it's new.

The area where you drag the components of the kit onto the kit is very small however.

orangeitis

Considered making specialty kits around sub-careers? Like Security kits for Tacticals or Operations for Engineers. There's obviously already Medical kits though, but will updates to them be included in the update?

ssargon

adjudicatorhawk wrote: »

It's possible within the system, but a cross-career kit slot would be extremely powerful. A universal kit slot would be even more powerful. It's something we've planned around making eventually, but not something we're going to roll out with the launch of the revamp.

Ah, makes sense. Good to know that if there is a way to balance it in the future, it is implementable.

sarek93

I'm also playing around with the kits on Drozana and had a number of questions:

1. Are these boxes going to be RNG god machines that might spit out blues or purples, but have high rates to drop greens and whites? If so, how will you ensure that high level captains aren't getting junk kit modules? I nabbed 20 from the test console and got only greens the whole time. Seems like a low drop rate for better rarity.
2. I like the kit shell layouts where the number of slots for each kind of module varies by kit. Will these numbers change like they do now as the kit mark increases (i.e. will the Mk XII version have 5 slots, Mk X 4 slots)? Or is it as the post above suggests varied by rarity? Or is it varied by rarity and mark?
3. Do we only get one of the powers that was in the fleet kit as a purple Mk module or do we get all of them as purple modules?
4. My old kits are unchanged. Will they be converted to the new system or will they be kept in their old format?
5. I have a engi and tac on Tribble but no sci, so I haven't tested all the combos out, but will we be able to create the old Borg medical analyzer kit with the powers in the modules?
6. How will we obtain these modules in game? Will each module pack include 3 modules and each kit pack include a module and a kit shell?
7. Why do the kit shells only include one module? Right now you get a full kit with a kit pack. Why do you now get only one module? Will missions that rewarded a kit now reward a kit pack and a module pack?

I'll post more as I test more. Thanks for getting these updates in Tribble.

adjudicatorhawk

orangeitis wrote: »

Considered making specialty kits around sub-careers? Like Security kits for Tacticals or Operations for Engineers. There's obviously already Medical kits though, but will updates to them be included in the update?

There are four different subsets of kit for each Career. I'll use Engineering as an example here, since it's the only career I haven't used in a post yet.

Engineering Kits at Mk 1:

Fabrication kit

• 1 Fabrication slot

Mechanic kit

• 1 Mechanic slot

Engineering Kits at Mk 12:

4/1 Fabrication Kit

• Fabrication Slot
• Fabrication Slot
• Fabrication Slot
• Fabrication Slot
• Mechanic Slot

3/2 Fabrication Kit

• Fabrication Slot
• Fabrication Slot
• Fabrication Slot
• Mechanic Slot
• Mechanic Slot

3/2 Mechanic Kit

• Fabrication Slot
• Fabrication Slot
• Mechanic Slot
• Mechanic Slot
• Mechanic Slot

4/1 Mechanic Kit

• Fabrication Slot
• Mechanic Slot
• Mechanic Slot
• Mechanic Slot
• Mechanic Slot

The interim marks add slots up from 1 until they reach 5 slots. You can generally find a kit frame to accommodate whatever playstyle you want to play within your career.

adjudicatorhawk

sarek93 wrote: »

I'm also playing around with the kits on Drozana and had a number of questions:

1. Are these boxes going to be RNG god machines that might spit out blues or purples, but have high rates to drop greens and whites? If so, how will you ensure that high level captains aren't getting junk kit modules? I nabbed 20 from the test console and got only greens the whole time. Seems like a low drop rate for better rarity.

The boxes are just for testing things on Tribble. When Kits drop from enemies you defeat on the ground or as mission rewards, they have a fixed rarity and mark based on drop odds calculated on mob defeat or based on the pre-set mission rewards, just like any other standard item type.

2. I like the kit shell layouts where the number of slots for each kind of module varies by kit. Will these numbers change like they do now as the kit mark increases (i.e. will the Mk XII version have 5 slots, Mk X 4 slots)? Or is it as the post above suggests varied by rarity? Or is it varied by rarity and mark?

Extra skill bonus modifiers are added at each rarity increment of a kit frame. So a White kit has no skill bonuses, while a Purple kit has three skill bonuses.

Number of slots in a kit is driven entirely by the kit's Mark.

3. Do we only get one of the powers that was in the fleet kit as a purple Mk module or do we get all of them as purple modules?

The new fleet kits currently only come with the purple module that was Mark IV in the old kits. We may add other modules to them, but they wouldn't all be purple - they would match their rank in the old system.

4. My old kits are unchanged. Will they be converted to the new system or will they be kept in their old format?

They'll be kept in their old format. The new system is entirely opt-in.

5. I have a engi and tac on Tribble but no sci, so I haven't tested all the combos out, but will we be able to create the old Borg medical analyzer kit with the powers in the modules?

You can, I believe, re-make the equivalent of the Medical Analzyer kit with one of the higher-mark Medic-focused Science kits.

6. How will we obtain these modules in game? Will each module pack include 3 modules and each kit pack include a module and a kit shell?

That's just for testing. In actual play, both Kits and Modules have been added as mission rewards throughout the episode journal, and have been added as drops from ground critters. You can also buy new versions of the Fleet Holding kits from your Embassy or Spire.

7. Why do the kit shells only include one module? Right now you get a full kit with a kit pack. Why do you now get only one module? Will missions that rewarded a kit now reward a kit pack and a module pack?

Totally arbitrary. 1 module with the kit made sure that people grok that there're two types of items now. 3 modules in the module pack seemed like enough to be useful in increments, without totally flooding your inventory. Again, it's just for testing.

orangeitis

adjudicatorhawk wrote: »

There are four different subsets of kit for each Career. I'll use Engineering as an example here, since it's the only career I haven't used in a post yet.

The interim marks add slots up from 1 until they reach 5 slots. You can generally find a kit frame to accommodate whatever playstyle you want to play within your career.

That's how I thought they'd be handled. Thanks.

frtoaster

Are the old kits being left entirely unchanged, or will they also get skill bonuses? If they are not getting skill bonuses, will players be able to exchange their old fleet kits for either the new fleet kits or dilithium and fleet credits?

kagasensei

Please apply a similar revamp to the BOff system - the best would be to actually merge both systems for the sake of consistency, i.e., remove BOff powers and give them slots for kit modules instead.

orangeitis

kagasensei wrote: »

Please apply a similar revamp to the BOff system - the best would be to actually merge both systems for the sake of consistency, i.e., remove BOff powers and give them slots for kit modules instead.

Or better yet(IMO), give BOFFs kits too that are appropriate for their rank, and redo their powers system.

dinoyipi

There's a few bugs I found, not sure whether I should post 'em here or create a thread in the Bug Reports Forum:

*The Tactical skill "Lunge" is broken. I cannot use it on either my old Operative kit or by equipping the new Lunge module.
*The standard kit vendors sell two top-tier kits that are basically identical. It's hard to explain, I'll give you an example: You can buy an Engineering kit with two "Mechanic" slots and two "Fabrication" slots, or you can buy one with two "Fabrication" slots and two "Mechanic" slots.
*Non-common Modules are marked as "Account Bind on Equip" when equipped, regardless of actual binding status.

ssargon

dinoyipi wrote: »

There's a few bugs I found, not sure whether I should post 'em here or create a thread in the Bug Reports Forum:

*The Tactical skill "Lunge" is broken. I cannot use it on either my old Operative kit or by equipping the new Lunge module....

It's not just that. Pounce is the same deal, doesn't show up in the powers list or anything just like Lunge.

alienfrombeyond

Do the fleet kits just come with a module pre-slotted, or is the ability listed an innate part of them, giving fleet kits effectively 6 powers?

Do you plan on having more variety for fleet kit skill bonuses? As it sits right now only adding the the generic weapon damage/armor/shield/cc reduction skills makes them not appealing at all, I'd rather have a regular purple Mk XII kit that dropped with the skills I actually want on it.

frtoaster

1. Equipping a device now triggers a cooldown on the device; this includes hypos, tribbles, the Ophidian Cane, and the Shard of Possibilities. Equipping a kit now triggers a cooldown on all powers of that kit. The cooldown is not 30 seconds, but lasts as long as the normal cooldown for that ability. Some of what I described is probably a bug. (See this bug report.) If the rest is intended to fix kit swapping, I think it is the wrong approach. The cooldown should be associated with the player, not the item. This means that the cooldown persists even if the player swaps items. The current implementation penalizes a player for equipping an item, even before he activates any ability.

2. The new fleet kits come with one kit power. I think they should come with all the powers of the old kits.

3. Players can't choose the new modifiers on the kits. Once again, they have to settle for whatever modifiers the devs have pre-chosen for fleet equipment, or they have to hunt the Exchange for the modifiers they want, possibly paying millions of EC. Certain modifiers have minimal value. For example, combat armor isn't worth that much when you take into consideration the diminishing returns to damage resistance and the high resistance ratings that come with armor.

4. The positions of your kit powers in the ground tray are not remembered. Swapping kits resets the positions to some default.

ursusmorologus

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=15624221&postcount=39

adjudicatorhawk wrote: »

Old kits will remain as-is, but will no longer drop or be sold throughout the game. Upgrading to a new kit will let you play with the new system.

I dont understand why the old kits dont just get in-place conversion. Inventory issue or something?

undyingzero

Are we going to get Kits with 4 slots of the same kind?

Using my main Science class as an example, I currently use the Physicist kit, but with the Kit revamp, there's no new Kit with 4 Science module slots, only 3 Science and 1 Medical. This, however, kinda sucks if a player (like, say, me) wanted to go full CC, but are forced to slot 1 Medical module there.

icegavel

I'm loving the new system of kits, but I have a quip. And that is that we should be given the OPTION of converting current kits. My biggest issue with the testing process is that the testing-level powers are so far below current baseline that it makes me feel less effective, despite the better kit combos. It seems unfair that we should be made to start from scratch AGAIN, or use an outdated system to maintain our effectiveness.

Lastly, I also have a question: How will this affect Crafting? What of the Kits there? Will we get to craft the new system's components? And will it cost Dilithium (please for the love of the Prophets say no to this, they don't as it is now and it needs to stay that way)?

mightybobcnc

I recreated an Operative kit and replaced lunge with smoke grenade and I'm having way too much fun. :P

frtoaster wrote: »

2. The new fleet kits come with one kit power. I think they should come with all the powers of the old kits.

I think I have to agree with this. Fleet kits are supposed to be a cut above the rest and require more resource investment to acquire so they should come with what I believe in the new system is 3 blues, 1 purple, and 1 green module.

frtoaster wrote: »

4. The positions of your kit powers in the ground tray are not remembered. Swapping kits resets the positions to some default.

This is seriously annoying. The same problem occurs when swapping out your devices.

ursusmorologus wrote: »

I dont understand why the old kits dont just get in-place conversion. Inventory issue or something?

Perhaps because a massive database operation would be required and it's safer to not break things. Plus opt-in is always a nice thing. Although it would be nice if we could eventually (perhaps as part of the overall crafting update) degrind the kits into their base components sort of like how you can degrind duty officers.

starkaos

Is there going to be some way to upgrade an old Fleet Kit to the new version? These are expensive items and will tick off people if they have to buy it again so they can be able to use the Mk IV power.

How does upgrading work? Is it some method where we can actually improve our powers or is it just replacing one version of a specific power with a better version?

direphoenix

kagasensei wrote: »

Please apply a similar revamp to the BOff system - the best would be to actually merge both systems for the sake of consistency, i.e., remove BOff powers and give them slots for kit modules instead.

On a side note, (FED) BOffs can use kit costume pieces... (haven't tried on my KDF toons)

adjudicatorhawk

undyingzero wrote: »

Are we going to get Kits with 4 slots of the same kind?

Using my main Science class as an example, I currently use the Physicist kit, but with the Kit revamp, there's no new Kit with 4 Science module slots, only 3 Science and 1 Medical. This, however, kinda sucks if a player (like, say, me) wanted to go full CC, but are forced to slot 1 Medical module there.

The Mark XII (and I think Mark XI as well, but could be mistaken as I'm writing from home) kits have five module slots. While before you had a 4 Research kit, you can now use a 4 Research, 1 Medic kit and gain an extra Medic power.

We experimented with mono-specialization kits, but they didn't really offer interesting choices or builds, in my opinion. They kind of pushed people too far into a corner, gameplay wise, to feel really good to me.

monkeybone13

Are we going to be able to get modules from fleet stores? I don't like the idea of getting a kit with just 1 ability and I have to figure out where to get more stuff for it.

Also, is there any possible way we could go to our fleet holding and do a trade-in of our old fleet kits? We would get the new kit with the set Mk IV ability and the other abilities returned to us as modules. I really don't want to have to buy a whole new fleet kit to get the abilities I want for it.

For my fleet spire bunker fabrication kit, I want to swap out the health generator for a quantum mortar without having to buy a whole new kit and only needing to buy the mortar module for it.

Also, what about crafting? Is that being changed? Kits are the only thing worth crafting since it doesn't require a heavy dilithium investment from those stupid unreplicateable materials.

I also want to know how much the new versions of fleet kits are going to cost. I'm gonna be mad if they still cost 60k fleet credits and around 15k dil and all it comes with is 1 module. I have a bunch of characters I need fleet kits for, and recently I've purchased fleet kits for a couple more of them already.

All qualities of Kits and Modules drop from ground enemies as reward possibilities.

Don't tell me that's the only way to get modules to fill up fleet kits. They'll end up super expensive in the exchange, especially for the more desirable stuff. I don't like the idea of fleet kits becoming very rare quality. I think they should stay ultra rare and the highest level of modules should stay as fleet purchases only, with them being ultra rare also.

frtoaster

Some questions:

1. Can we get some information about how the kit modules are supposed to scale with mark and rarity. Are very rare Mk X kit modules supposed to be the same as the level III abilities we currently find on very rare Mk X kits? Are very rare Mk XII kit modules supposed to be the same as the level IV abilities we currently find on fleet kits?

2. What marks and rarities of kits and kit modules will be available from the following sources:
(a) drops
(b) vendors
(c) dilithium store
(d) crafting

szerontzur

adjudicatorhawk wrote: »

The Mark XII (and I think Mark XI as well, but could be mistaken as I'm writing from home) kits have five module slots. While before you had a 4 Research kit, you can now use a 4 Research, 1 Medic kit and gain an extra Medic power.

We experimented with mono-specialization kits, but they didn't really offer interesting choices or builds, in my opinion. They kind of pushed people too far into a corner, gameplay wise, to feel really good to me.

I think that was a good call. 4/1 still provides a ton of specialization while providing a small measure of flexibility for situations a player may not be prepared for.


I do have a balance concern/suggestion about this system, however. A lot of (Holodeck) kits have a 'hallmark' skill, if you will, that is unique to that kit and is usually quite powerful(Triage and Exothermic Induction Field, as examples). There should probably be a limitation of one of these 'uber-skills' per kit - else I see kits becoming almost exclusively flooded with these skills.

Is it possible to change one of the kit slots to a "Master Skill" slot that can be either specialization and house only those skills? It would be something of an analogy to a Commander Bridge Officer Station on a ship that really helps to define your role.

It 'might' be a solution to mono-specialization(A Master Skill and 4 of a single specialization - you could go with a traditionally heal-heavy medic and then slot either triage or exothermic, using the previous example), but I think that would still probably need to be tested to see how it shakes down.

johnsteward

So gettinh kit modules will be just by drops and mission rewards? So no fleet or rep kit modules?

At least to me it sounds like after the revamp goes live i will keep using my old kits for weeks and month untill i get enough stuff together to make better newer kits. A bit like with warp cores where everyone smart enough waited for the fleet cores and otherwise sold their cores for loads of ec at the exchange.

So my question is if there will be a fleet holding/something to get kit modules from or will playing with this stuff be limited to ppl with deep ec pockets and for the rest its like nice they are there but the old stuff will be much better for a long long time?

majortiraomega

adjudicatorhawk wrote: »

There are four different subsets of kit for each Career. I'll use Engineering as an example here, since it's the only career I haven't used in a post yet.

The interim marks add slots up from 1 until they reach 5 slots. You can generally find a kit frame to accommodate whatever playstyle you want to play within your career.

Thanks for all the work you and the dev team have put into this revamp. Even in the early stages, the revamp opens up quite a few new possibilities for ground combat gameplay. I look forward to the changes.

This may be too early to ask, but are there any plans to review the current state of all kit abilities? Some abilities, such as Chroniton Mine Barrier, Lunge, and Exothermic Induction Field/Hyperonic Radiation reach overperforming levels. Chroniton Mine Barrier has been excessively powerful since the "damage reduced by range" stat was removed, Lunge is excessively powerful when using Security Melee duty officers due to the sheer amount of shield bypassing damage the ability can generate, and Exothermic Induction Field/Hyperonic Radiation may be spammed every few seconds via the Geologist duty officers due to the fact that it lacks a minimum cooldown.

Whereas some abilities; such as Anesthezine Gas Grenade, Stun Grenade, and Hypospray Melorazine are underperforming for varying reasons. Anesthezing Gas Grenade provides a very fragile stun that does next to nothing against players. The secondary effects are identical to Suppressing Fire, yet the cooldown is four times longer. The debuff field also does not last the listed 30 seconds. Stun Grenade is fragile and very easily cleared by players. It has no secondary effects while carrying a very long cooldown. Fuse Armor has a cooldown that is three times shorter, yet the ability is much more effective at disabling a target than stun grenade. Hypospray Meorazine provides a moderate energy damage resistance buff, but the usefulness of the ability is minimal. The cooldown is incredibly short and the uptime is very long, but the ability has next to no application due to diminishing returns at maximum level.

There are a few other abilities that are under ideal performance levels, but I believe this is a sufficient example. I welcome the kit revamp, but I fear that some kit abilities won't be used anymore if they remain in their current state after the revamp.

adjudicatorhawk wrote: »

We experimented with mono-specialization kits, but they didn't really offer interesting choices or builds, in my opinion. They kind of pushed people too far into a corner, gameplay wise, to feel really good to me.

While limiting, it would be very nice to have a kit with 5 medic slots. The current kit revamp makes it impossible to replicate the Spire Medic Mk XII kit of Medical Tricorder IV, Vascular Regenerator III, Triage III, Biofilter Sweep II, and Nanite Health Monitor III. Such a setup makes an excellent tank setup, but it would require 5 medic slots, which will be impossible to replicate once the new system goes live. A defensive tactical build would also benefit from 5 Strategic abilities. (Suppressing Fire, Overwatch, Rally Cry, Draw Fire, and Battle Strategies). Engineers also have an interesting option via Weapon Malfunction, Fuse Armor, Shield Recharge, Chronition Mine Barrier, and Equipment Diagnostics among other things.