I would also say it's disrespectful to not give her any situations where she can use her intended role. But yeah keep her as she is, it's the fleet X people are worried about.
Now if STO was like Bridge Commander...
And I won't disagree with you on that one, in a way that is also disrespectfull.
But at least I now can command basically the same ship from the show without crazy gimmicks she never did to the best of my and the ship's abilities. She was a cruiser (in STO terms) and she is a cruiser here. If they start changing her elementary role and outlay to make the ship so different that the one in TNG - that would be the most disrespectfull thing they could to TNG, the Galaxy and the ST fans.
And I won't disagree with you on that one, in a way that is also disrespectfull.
But at least I now can command basically the same ship from the show without crazy gimmicks she never did to the best of my and the ship's abilities. She was a cruiser (in STO terms) and she is a cruiser here. If they start changing her elementary role and outlay to make the ship so different that the one in TNG - that would be the most disrespectfull thing they could to TNG, the Galaxy and the ST fans.
It's the X people want changed, and people are worried that the fleet X will suffer from the same lack of LTC tac boff and only 3 tac consoles that plague the current X. The R is what it is, and I personally find it useless. My engineer performs way better in a patrol escort and it's not even a fleet patrol escort.
Like I said in the other thread, the R and X were designed at a time when tanking still had a chance to be relevant, but the game clearly evolved into something completely different and left these ships behind. They're relics of a time when the MMO trinity of tank-heal-DPS was still possible.
the gal-X on the other hand should be nothing but a WARSHIP due to its concept IS to be a WARSHIP...
In that alternate timeline, maybe. But this is the prime universe. So it's concept is still tied directly to the concept of the Galaxy. That's the base.
And we all know that the Galaxy-X is one of the most iconic ships in all of Star Trek so Geko's just trying to reflect that, and have a ship function the way it did on the show with Picard at the helm. Cause Galaxy is the first part of Galaxy X.
Anyways, there's other dreadnoughts to fly right? The Odyssey is listed as a dreadnought in its description on the wiki. So the tactical Ody can be the dreadnought you want.
Or keep pushing for the Jupiter and/or Typhoon. That'd rock right?
Or just level up a Fed aligned Romulan and bust out the Scimitar.
That's the thing that weirds me out the most. Everyone keeps wanting the ship to be the scimitar, when they can just make a fedulan, and fly a scimitar, as a fed.
EDIT: And just in case of someone citing immersion ... that they don't want to be Romulan or a Reman ...
Make an Alien. Make it look human, Vulcan, Tellarite, whatever you want. Ally Fed. Equip the Fed/Rom uniform (because it's not all that different from the fifty zillion other whacky fed uniforms Cryptic made for Starfleet in 2409). Bam. You're a starfleet officer captaining a Dreadnaught that has all of the awesome that the Scimitar has, because it IS a scimitar.
In that alternate timeline, maybe. But this is the prime universe. So it's concept is still tied directly to the concept of the Galaxy. That's the base.
And we all know that the Galaxy-X is one of the most iconic ships in all of Star Trek so Geko's just trying to reflect that, and have a ship function the way it did on the show with Picard at the helm. Cause Galaxy is the first part of Galaxy X.
Anyways, there's other dreadnoughts to fly right? The Odyssey is listed as a dreadnought in its description on the wiki. So the tactical Ody can be the dreadnought you want.
Or keep pushing for the Jupiter and/or Typhoon. That'd rock right?
Or just level up a Fed aligned Romulan and bust out the Scimitar.
That's the thing that weirds me out the most. Everyone keeps wanting the ship to be the scimitar, when they can just make a fedulan, and fly a scimitar, as a fed.
EDIT: And just in case of someone citing immersion ... that they don't want to be Romulan or a Reman ...
Make an Alien. Make it look human, Vulcan, Tellarite, whatever you want. Ally Fed. Equip the Fed/Rom uniform (because it's not all that different from the fifty zillion other whacky fed uniforms Cryptic made for Starfleet in 2409). Bam. You're a starfleet officer captaining a Dreadnaught that has all of the awesome that the Scimitar has, because it IS a scimitar.
...my answer on gal-r already given in the post u quoted. though u did not quote that part...
... in an alternate timeline where fed is at war with klink, so may it's closer to sto than u may think. also actually it is the very same ship. jkust refitted after alternate timeline split off...
... wiki is user written... anyone can alter over there afaik ^^+ the fact oddy is not labelled as such ingame...
...whether typhoon, nor jupiter has been on screen and are that close connected to the gal (as much i want the typhoon myself)...
... i own the scimi-pack, i fight scimis and i can tell that that is the top of cryptics incompetence to deliver something like balance. i don't fly it anymore, it's actually a class of it's own and should be labelled as t6...
whatever else, i'm not out for a discussion. have a nice day.
also actually it is the very same ship. jkust refitted after alternate timeline split off...
It's not the same ship. Never was.
... wiki is user written... anyone can alter over there afaik ^^+ the fact oddy is not labelled as such ingame...
The Enterprise F is labeled as such.
...whether typhoon, nor jupiter has been on screen and are that close connected to the gal (as much i want the typhoon myself)...
The Galaxy X has only been onscreen maybe 40 seconds longer than the Jupiter. So I'm not really convinced by that statement since it's 2409 and Starfleet is more than capable of making a Jupiter Dreadnaught and leaving the Galaxy behind.
and should be labelled as t6...
Calling it Tier 6 really is a bad idea. Tier 6 would imply it has 9 weapons. It still only has 8.
In that alternate timeline, maybe. But this is the prime universe. So it's concept is still tied directly to the concept of the Galaxy. That's the base.
And we all know that the Galaxy-X is one of the most iconic ships in all of Star Trek so Geko's just trying to reflect that, and have a ship function the way it did on the show with Picard at the helm. Cause Galaxy is the first part of Galaxy X.
Anyways, there's other dreadnoughts to fly right? The Odyssey is listed as a dreadnought in its description on the wiki. So the tactical Ody can be the dreadnought you want.
Or keep pushing for the Jupiter and/or Typhoon. That'd rock right?
Or just level up a Fed aligned Romulan and bust out the Scimitar.
That's the thing that weirds me out the most. Everyone keeps wanting the ship to be the scimitar, when they can just make a fedulan, and fly a scimitar, as a fed.
EDIT: And just in case of someone citing immersion ... that they don't want to be Romulan or a Reman ...
Make an Alien. Make it look human, Vulcan, Tellarite, whatever you want. Ally Fed. Equip the Fed/Rom uniform (because it's not all that different from the fifty zillion other whacky fed uniforms Cryptic made for Starfleet in 2409). Bam. You're a starfleet officer captaining a Dreadnaught that has all of the awesome that the Scimitar has, because it IS a scimitar.
Well, the galaxy was sciency not engeery.
That aside, the gx had Riker at the helm. Riker is a more agressive and wily combatant. Thats what the Galaxy truned into when he had her upgunned: a wily tool of destruction.
As to your last argument:
we do not want to fly a warbird. We want our galaxys.
Galaxys that do not suck by design.
Cryptic could have updated the ships to properly fit into the game they themselves have built.
Stop tge console nonsense. inbuild saucer sep for gal r, combined with a mode switch from science lt com to tac ltcom.
The gal x could have gone to carry an inbuild lance weapon (narrow arc high damage), akin to the dyson destroyers.
Then switch the lt com engineer with the lt tac.
Inbuild cloak, no separation
done.
Thats it. This was to much to ask?
Instead they shafted us again and why? Either because they fear we would never buy anything else but more galaxys or because they genuinly think they did good here.
In both cases they are dumb, stupid arseholes because pissing on us means our wallets slam shut by default, so they gained nothing. And pissing on us because of sheer incompetence also means that our wallets slam shut.
My latest engineer to level cap flies the Ambassador because I wanted that feel, that kind of cruiser, with the science capability. So I can relate.
That aside, the gx had Riker at the helm. Riker is a more agressive and wily combatant. Thats what the Galaxy truned into when he had her upgunned: a wily tool of destruction.
I guess, but that's Riker you know? Not us, as in our captain. Like in the latest FE, you get Tuvok on your bridge and can do Tuvok things. That's how this game represents those types of "Hero" characters. The ship itself is more tactical than the Galaxy R so it kind of already represents that as much as I believe Geko is willing to go with the Galaxy foundation.
we do not want to fly a warbird. We want our galaxys.
While I understand that, it's just, I mean, people keep posting in the various Galaxy Reboot threads about how it's not comparable to the Scimitar.
And I don't think Geko is ever going to do that.
So like on the one hand, should the Galaxy R not be so Engineering BOFF heavy? No I don't think it should. Or if it remains that way, then engineering powers need some reorganization and tweaking so that there's less lockout of powers from shared cooldowns.
Should the ship gain more flexibility? Like maybe more science BOFF capability? Or even more Ensign to Lt. level Tactical flexibility? Absolutely!
Should the Galaxy X be a mirror image of the Scimitar?
Oh god no. That's nuts, completely out of flavor for the ship, even in its alternate timeline, and just plain asking for Geko to do something I don't think he wants to do or even can do.
If the Federation gets a scimitar like ship, it'll be in a lockbox or a brand new Zen purchase.
So maybe the Jupiter will fit that.
Instead they shafted us again and why?
Well the changes so far are in line with a lot of what Geko's said about the ship and his vision for the cruisers in this game. So I don't know. I think more feedback can create some more small changes (it happened with the nebula). But I really don't see this "Give us a scimitar" movement panning out.
So TRIBBLE this insult they call a reboot.
It is a reboot. They've reset the entire class and are now calling the alternate timeline variant that appeared onscreen for less than a minute an "ICON."
Quoting an alternate Picard from a completely different alternate universe, who was captaining a different Galaxy warship at the time, about how history will remember the Enterprise! In a game where that Enterprise is two whole ships ago.
Why the fck do you lot always try to pull this scimi strawman?
Why do you need to use profanity (intentionally not putting a letter on a profane word doesn't make it not profane or more acceptable).
Who exactly is "you lot"?
And how much is "always"?
I have seen people complain about the Scimi' in this forum talking about how much damage it does, which some might consider where people want to benchmark their most beloved ship.
I honestly think they need to replace the Com engi on the fleet gal-x with a Com Tactical then they will be a lot different then most fed ships and give the Gal-R a ensign uni so players of the old layout can still enjoy a similar ship at fleet level.
Cruisers, which the Galaxy X is a family member of, get Commander Engineering. To make the ship different, fixing the lance so it actually hits would be a start.
... no one wants the gal-r to be a warship. that should be about exploration (sci-cruiser), or at least a good mix of all roles due to it was exactly that on the show. tanky, punchy, and smart. and not that subpar eng-ship we got right now...
the gal-X on the other hand should be nothing but a WARSHIP due to its concept IS to be a WARSHIP...
I beg to differ with you, there are several people who want the Gal-R to be a warship, if you check the thread out again, you will see that they are all over here.
The Galaxy doesn't need to be a warship, agreed. The problem is, people acknowledge that STO has gone dps crazy. So if that's the case how do you make it competitive without adding punch? The ship can't turn, it can't run, if you do get to smashing someone with a decent build they can overcome the dps your putting out. Anything you put on the ship, other ships will use and make better.
What about an integral seep ration console, and without changing the ranks of the Boff stations, give it universal bridge stations. The BoP has them, why can't we? That's going to be to OP. What about two phasers in the foreword arc always fire as beam overload, but can't use faw? It needs something to make it unique. And I'm more concerned with the R than the X. Any ideas how to make the Galaxy class unique?
What about the defector shot they rigged up to shoot the Borg cube? Or a La Forge power that allowed the shields or weapons to adapt to the enemy? Maybe it increases in damage up to 5% each phaser the longer you shoot at the enemy. Or maybe a firing patter Sierra for the torpedoes that does some kind of special to hit bonus. Or maybe the phasers, because they did this all the time in the show, actually disable a system more often, 25% disable, an engine! weapon! or shield for 3-5 seconds unless you use a repair, or hazard emitter to clear it.
I think there is something awesome out there that doesn't have to be just a raw increase in dps. Let's figure it out and post it before we have to accept what most admit is a less than awesome solution....
No, no, no......just no! Seriously, just no. This current lazy model of "When in doubt, slap a hangar!" Cryptic is having needs to be ridiculed and not promoted.
I'd rather have my Galaxy-R as it is. I'll take the new saucer separation and set bonus and be on my merry way. I'll take her even as she was before this, just don't ruin the ship with a darned hangar bay.
After everything that has been done , there would be nothing more disrespectfull for this iconic ship than to be turned into something she clearly never was.
the only thing keeping a galaxy class ship from being a full fighter carrier is a change of shuttle roster. (srsly that thing is a cavern of a main shuttle bay)
in the show she fully had the capability to field a wing of shuttles or runabouts, but was never in a situation where that would be necessary. if you use shuttle craft or runabouts, its perfectly cannon.
in short, your objections to the addition of a hangar are illogical.
the only thing keeping a galaxy class ship from being a full fighter carrier is a change of shuttle roster. (srsly that thing is a cavern of a main shuttle bay)
in the show she fully had the capability to field a wing of shuttles or runabouts, but was never in a situation where that would be necessary. if you use shuttle craft or runabouts, its perfectly cannon.
in short, your objections to the addition of a hangar are illogical.
Carrying a bunch of shuttles around for the captain's leisurely trips to Risa does not make a ship a "Carrier."
as long as something isn't more powerful then the scimitar, its not even power creep, its just a slight rearranging of chairs. the galaxy getting more of a tactical edge =/= making it a warship. as long as its not a proposal to blatantly make it more powerful then the avenger of scimitar, something frankly impossible unless you made fundamental changes you couldn't justify, there isn't an issue. except with the dyson station flipping tech, that changes things big time
it turns out my idea about the station fliping on the galaxy X would put it in second place behind the scimitar though. but, its still second place, and not entirely inappropriate. im not sure why the feds and kdf shouldn't have a near scimitar of their own too.
as a reminder, a station fliping galaxy X would look like this
unseped
COM eng LTC tac LT eng LT sci ENS uni
seped
COM tac LTC eng
LT eng LT sci ENS uni
with 4 tac consoles, ya, it would be the most deadly fed cruiser, but it shouldn't necessarily not be. its a dreadnought, and dreadnaughts tend to be cruisers with COM tac, there is precedent here.
the R would look like this
unseped
COM eng
LTC eng LT tac LTsci ENS uni
seped
COMeng LTC tac LT eng LT sci ENS uni
unseped you could argue that it should have a LTC sci, but i dont want to step directly on the face of the ambassador. the saucer sep is supposed to be a tactical enhancement, its only a appropriate for its LTC to turn tac on separation.
the only thing keeping a galaxy class ship from being a full fighter carrier is a change of shuttle roster. (srsly that thing is a cavern of a main shuttle bay)
in the show she fully had the capability to field a wing of shuttles or runabouts, but was never in a situation where that would be necessary. if you use shuttle craft or runabouts, its perfectly cannon.
in short, your objections to the addition of a hangar are illogical.
giving it a hanger takes away the 2 best cruiser comm command things, nerfing the ship overall. this isnt just about some canon principle
I actually completely agree with this and it's something I would like as well. Well maybe just a smidge more in science. I also don't want a warship, but a true explorer in the Galaxy-R.
But you have to understand one other thing, some of the people here have been with STO for a looong time - and that's enables us to have a perspective on how Cryptic does things.
So I understand when people desire a bit more power in terms of tac., because many of us (including me) at this point have all but given up the hope of Cryptic making any game content that is not a complete an utter DPS fiesta. I mentioned before, just look at NW - people over there are complaining about the DPS fest and it's a new game.
Taking that into consideration and Cryptic's often lazy approach to things like their "When in doubt, slap a hangar!" model, you can see why people have more hope in Cryptic changing something easier like Boff layout rather then their entire end-game content.
I get where you guys are coming from... but Exploration is not a true consideration in this game. You know that. Sure, there are those missions/systems out there, but there is absolutely nothing meaningful out there to exercise the mission Starfleet is famed for: Long ranged, long duration, Exploration Missions such as what Kirk & Picard had done on their Enterprises.
There is nothing in the game for canon Exploration Vessels to really put their teeth into, such as the Galaxy Class and the Intrepid Class.
There is one meaningful thing to do in STO. And that's combat. Unlike even Bridge Commander and Starfleet Command games, you don't even have the option to go from No Alert, Yellow Alert, to full on Red Alert, and how your systems and ship acts in those modes. In STO, there is no other content than combat. So it's Red Alert as soon as you warp in.
Compound this with the game having no true use of "Tanks" then you can see why a lack of offensive strength (or good Sci ability as a different measure) relegates ships to the junkheap in player opinions. You don't even really need top of the line healers, because every ship and build has sufficient heals and cross healing to make dedicated healers irrelevant.
1. The Galaxy, and indeed most of the cruisers, were never portrayed as the pure warship design. In fact the ENT-D LOST almost every actual fight it got itself into and had to find a non combat way to get out of the situation. In the very few fights the canon portrayal showed us that it had combat success, it was either part of a massive federation fleet OR completely outclassed its enemy in terms of tech.
I like this part, because it dashes the notion that Starfleet is so technologically advanced over any competition that it should be the excuse for Feds to crush everything with ease. Picard & Kirk had to talk their way out of dilemma many times because their ships couldn't muscle them out of a problem. Alot of Feds here forget about this glaring obviousness from all of Star Trek.
There were reasons why the Federation and Starfleet were so worried about their rivals such as the Romulans, Cardassians, and Klingons... because they had to be pretty darn good themselves and have comparable technology and warfighting capability to compete.
Yeah, I guess... if it carries a handful of shuttles, it qualifies a ship to have the space, resources, ordnance, to maintain, upkeep, load/unload weapons, and lauch/recover fighters on a scale that actual, dedicated carriers are supposed to do :rolleyes:
Sorry, just because a ship carried Picard's yacht doesn't mean is should be a carrier. When was the last time in all of Star Trek you saw ANY Galaxy class spewing wings of fighters and *snicker* combat hardened shuttle crews into combat? Really? :P
And it still makes Cryptic's idea of "Slap a Hangar on it and be done with it" development process laughable.
Cruisers, which the Galaxy X is a family member of, get Commander Engineering. To make the ship different, fixing the lance so it actually hits would be a start.
I do get your point, but its main class is Dreadnought. I mostly meant making the Gal-R different and still desirable then Gal-X. But there are other ways of making them different, make all the boff slots on Gal-R under lt com universal, or there could be a Hp buff for Gal-R.
Maybe give Gal-R a better impulse mod, then most cruisers? Becuase at the point of this revamp the only thing Gal-R maybe has over Gal-X is 5 engi slots and more cruiser commands.... Not even its consoles are safe from it, while it is cool that Gal-x can saucer sep, the Gal-R is getting stripped all its uniqueness and just handing it to another ship.
unseped you could argue that it should have a LTC sci, but i dont want to step directly on the face of the ambassador. the saucer sep is supposed to be a tactical enhancement, its only a appropriate for its LTC to turn tac on separation.
Keep in mind that they released a MU Cheyenne which is the exact same as the Ambassador, only better since it comes with a 3/3/3 layout. That argument is invalid, having a PAYSHIP with that layout is perfectly viable. LTC for the Gal-R would be appropriate.
I do get your point, but its main class is Dreadnought. (...)
No it's not. It's class is "Dreadnaught Cruiser" which is a unique class - no ship except the Galaxy AGT Refit is part of that class. The others are "Dreadnaughts".
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I actually agree with warmaker001b, except for where he joins the ranks of the inferior on TV crowd. I'd like to point out, the Galaxies weakness, if there was one, was Picard still talking for 20 minutes why someone banged on his ship, before he finally, if ever, kicked their TRIBBLE. The times it WAS outmatched, there was no ship around that would have done better because of technological issues, Enterprise eventually overcame. So it doesn't belong behind, Nebula, Ambassador, Excelsior, Defiant, probably the Akira, the BoP, the Double D, Vorcha, and quite a few I'm probably missing. Fact is it does. And enough of the, it was designed to explore so it's not good at fighting. It was a multirole ship. That means it could do both. First words out of Worfs mouth when they lost their memory in one episode was, this is a BATTLESHIP given the armament. It is ridiculous to thnk Starfleet would leave the ship so behind in a time of conflict, but take some decrepit Excelsior and make it a front line ship, r any of the others I listed. That's why it should be fixed. I like the Excelsior, and Ambassador, 2 of m favorites, but they shouldn't be in the same league as the Galaxy. That's why we care, and why this thread is so large, it's silly. We don't need a shuttle, jst a Galaxy that's at least a reflection of what it was intended to be. Not this washed out pale reflection.
Edit: The Constitution class by the way, that was an exploration ship,that filled the role of a heavy cruiser, and was designated as such, despite its primary mission of 5 year exploration. The Excelsior? She was a test bed for transwarp drive, and was basically a bigger Enterprise, Connie class, just watch trek 3-6. The Explorer designation was intended to get back to Starfleets roots of exploration and not scare the TRIBBLE out of the enemies of the federation. It's asinine to assume that means the Galaxy was not a capable warship. The Galaxy was a shop intended to show both the Federations might, but primary purpose of exploration. Suggesting otherwise is just a desire to push back against this thread that I don't understand. Or lack of knowledge. Hell even the Ambassador class came out BECAUSE the Excelsior couldn't hold its own any longer.
(...) And enough of the, it was designed to explore so it's not good at fighting.(...)
Don't waste your breath. Everyone regualirly partaking in this thread know that a explorer facing the unknown without the ability to defend itself is just a foolish assumption. It seems to irk many people beyond belief that a ship that's not classified in the way present day military ships are should be able to keep up or even outgun those badass super mean battlewarships of doom. They also cannot, ever, get over the fact that Starfleet in TNG was something different than the united states navy and that being peaceful and being powerful can actually go together. Those people cannot, ever, accept the fact that Star Trek envisioned a society that could defend itself very well without abusing the force they had at their command since it's the current zeitgeist to shoot first and ask question later... or never. Because if the other guy is dead you are better off anyway. It's like talking against a brick wall.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Don't waste your breath. Everyone regualirly partaking in this thread know that a explorer facing the unknown without the ability to defend itself is just a foolish assumption. It seems to irk many people beyond belief that a ship that's not classified in the way present day military ships are should be able to keep up or even outgun those badass super mean battlewarships of doom. They also cannot, ever, get over the fact that Starfleet in TNG was something different than the united states navy and that being peaceful and being powerful can actually go together. Those people cannot, ever, accept the fact that Star Trek envisioned a society that could defend itself very well without abusing the force they had at their command since it's the current zeitgeist to shoot first and ask question later... or never. Because if the other guy is dead you are better off anyway. It's like talking against a brick wall.
We'll said!
I'm going to add this though, Constitution class, primary mission, 5 year exploration, designation: Heavy Cruiser.
Excelsior basically a giant Constitution designed to test transwarp drive. Still primarily an exploration ship designed to replace the Constitution.
Guess what replaced the Excelsior? The Ambassador, built mostly for the same reason as the Constitution and the Excelsior class ships. Exploration, with some TRIBBLE kicking if needed.
At this point even the most idiotic should see what's coming, yes the Galaxy class is just the outgrowth of the before mentioned classes.
And yes, everyone's favorite ship the Sovvy, guess what, cataloging gaseous anomalies at the start of first contact, and later in the movies Riker saying, Remember when we actually did some exploring. Guess what the Sovvy was supposed to do as well as fight?
The Enterprise in TNG wasnt exploring, most of the time it was within Federation space or close to the Federation borders.
Second, the workhorse of the Federation in TNG time was the Excelsior class and there is no indication the Galaxy design was ultimate successful enough, the existence of the Nebula class seems to indicate the Galaxy was too expensive and the Nebula was good enough without the cost of the Galaxy, plus all this was Wolf 359.
We have a tactical cruiser that is the Sovereign class that was also a "exploration cruiser" if we go down into it, the whole argument these people say is the Galaxy SHOULD be better that the Soverign class as a tactical cruiser, that it SHOULD be better that the Avenger Battlecruiser.
Again, this is sacrificing every Federation cruiser on the altar of the Galaxy, the Galaxy as it stands its as tactical capable as the Negh'Var and slightly less capable as the Vor'cha.
Wait who said it should be better than the Sovvy? The Nebula in all reality is the same thing as the Miranda, a kitbash, or if you want more canon, it was cheaper to use successful proven hulls to make a new ship that was more science than the Galaxy class. As for the Excelsior, come on, she was used to ferry personnel around at that point. Workhorse as in pack mule maybe. The Borg cut the primary hull of one in half with one shot.
Edit: and no one wants it better than the Avenger. Last thing we need is that kind of power creep.
the only thing keeping a galaxy class ship from being a full fighter carrier is a change of shuttle roster. (srsly that thing is a cavern of a main shuttle bay)
in the show she fully had the capability to field a wing of shuttles or runabouts, but was never in a situation where that would be necessary. if you use shuttle craft or runabouts, its perfectly cannon.
in short, your objections to the addition of a hangar are illogical.
LOL My objections are illogical?!? Have you even watched the show?
The thing keeping the Galaxy class from being a carrier is called the Star Trek mantra, something that Cryptic often conveniently disregards in their hunt for more $$$.
I get where you guys are coming from... but Exploration is not a true consideration in this game. You know that. Sure, there are those missions/systems out there, but there is absolutely nothing meaningful out there to exercise the mission Starfleet is famed for: Long ranged, long duration, Exploration Missions such as what Kirk & Picard had done on their Enterprises.
There is nothing in the game for canon Exploration Vessels to really put their teeth into, such as the Galaxy Class and the Intrepid Class.
And all of that makes me a sad panda.
Luckily though, we have the KDF, so whenever I feel frustrated that I can't explore I just hop onto my KDF chars and go on a rampage against Feds to blow some steam. At least I'm in character and the Klingons here are closer to the Klingons in the show than the Feds. That's one of the reasons I mainly play KDF.
Don't waste your breath. Everyone regualirly partaking in this thread know that a explorer facing the unknown without the ability to defend itself is just a foolish assumption. It seems to irk many people beyond belief that a ship that's not classified in the way present day military ships are should be able to keep up or even outgun those badass super mean battlewarships of doom. They also cannot, ever, get over the fact that Starfleet in TNG was something different than the united states navy and that being peaceful and being powerful can actually go together. Those people cannot, ever, accept the fact that Star Trek envisioned a society that could defend itself very well without abusing the force they had at their command since it's the current zeitgeist to shoot first and ask question later... or never. Because if the other guy is dead you are better off anyway. It's like talking against a brick wall.
You're so very right. And that makes me kinda' sad. I feel sorry for those people.
They don't realize that they've essentialy isolated themselves in their own restricted space of thought without looking outside of the box. And there are beautiful things outside.
The Enterprise in TNG wasnt exploring, most of the time it was within Federation space or close to the Federation borders.
Second, the workhorse of the Federation in TNG time was the Excelsior class and there is no indication the Galaxy design was ultimate successful enough, the existence of the Nebula class seems to indicate the Galaxy was too expensive and the Nebula was good enough without the cost of the Galaxy, plus all this was Wolf 359.
We have a tactical cruiser that is the Sovereign class that was also a "exploration cruiser" if we go down into it, the whole argument these people say is the Galaxy SHOULD be better that the Soverign class as a tactical cruiser, that it SHOULD be better that the Avenger Battlecruiser.
Again, this is sacrificing every Federation cruiser on the altar of the Galaxy, the Galaxy as it stands its as tactical capable as the Negh'Var and slightly less capable as the Vor'cha.
The Enterprise was the UFPs flagship. It seems logical that they'd not sent her off into the depths of space but instead use her to show off a bit. You are right, although they did encounter the unknown and omnipotent often enough Although at the end of the day, what the Enterprise did doesn't change the fact what the class was designed for.
In-universe I'd suspect that there were just far more Excelsiors available. We only know about 6 Galaxy Classes to the time of TNG of which 3 were commissioned, the other 3 remained in dock as far as I remember. Roddenberry himself said that Starfleet wouldn't commission a large number of those explorers. You are entirely right that the resources needed to build one are massive - that's why the Nebula replaced the Excelsior as the "workorse". Besides, as shanseifert already said, the Excelsiors we see are primarily used for transportation and patrol duty. The days of the Excelsior are numbered in TNG, don't forget that ultimately, if not the Nebula, the Cheyenne would probably replace the Excelsior entirely (in-unverse speculation. Out-of-universe we know that the budget wasn't there to build new ships, they had the Excelsior model and used it throughout TNG and the Cheyenne was, of course, just a kitbash for the graveyard scene. But it used a Ent-D saucer, so it would be a Galaxy derivation as well, prooving - in-universe - that the design was a success).
Again, as already mentioned by shanseifert, nobody wants the Galaxy to be better at "fighting" than the Sovereign or the Avenger-thingy. The Sovereign has a completely different purpose than the Galaxy. As you said yourself, the Galaxy is a massive beast of a ship. It's meant to operate on it's own for years and be ready to take anything that it might encounter but it's also an expensive project. Smaller, more advanced ships are used for different tasks plus the massive Galaxy isn't all that nimble to stand in for a "battle cruiser" - I entirely think the Sovereign sports similiar armament and more manneuvreability but sacrifices other things for it.
Having the Galaxy be as capable tactically as a Negh'Var is entirely true to the IP, the Vor'Cha be comparable to the Sovereign also makes sense. The problem is that STO pumps out more "warfighter doombrigade battleships" non-canon designs that just ridicule the canon designs we know.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
And I won't disagree with you on that one, in a way that is also disrespectfull.
But at least I now can command basically the same ship from the show without crazy gimmicks she never did to the best of my and the ship's abilities. She was a cruiser (in STO terms) and she is a cruiser here. If they start changing her elementary role and outlay to make the ship so different that the one in TNG - that would be the most disrespectfull thing they could to TNG, the Galaxy and the ST fans.
It's the X people want changed, and people are worried that the fleet X will suffer from the same lack of LTC tac boff and only 3 tac consoles that plague the current X. The R is what it is, and I personally find it useless. My engineer performs way better in a patrol escort and it's not even a fleet patrol escort.
Like I said in the other thread, the R and X were designed at a time when tanking still had a chance to be relevant, but the game clearly evolved into something completely different and left these ships behind. They're relics of a time when the MMO trinity of tank-heal-DPS was still possible.
In that alternate timeline, maybe. But this is the prime universe. So it's concept is still tied directly to the concept of the Galaxy. That's the base.
And we all know that the Galaxy-X is one of the most iconic ships in all of Star Trek so Geko's just trying to reflect that, and have a ship function the way it did on the show with Picard at the helm. Cause Galaxy is the first part of Galaxy X.
Anyways, there's other dreadnoughts to fly right? The Odyssey is listed as a dreadnought in its description on the wiki. So the tactical Ody can be the dreadnought you want.
Or keep pushing for the Jupiter and/or Typhoon. That'd rock right?
Or just level up a Fed aligned Romulan and bust out the Scimitar.
That's the thing that weirds me out the most. Everyone keeps wanting the ship to be the scimitar, when they can just make a fedulan, and fly a scimitar, as a fed.
EDIT: And just in case of someone citing immersion ... that they don't want to be Romulan or a Reman ...
Make an Alien. Make it look human, Vulcan, Tellarite, whatever you want. Ally Fed. Equip the Fed/Rom uniform (because it's not all that different from the fifty zillion other whacky fed uniforms Cryptic made for Starfleet in 2409). Bam. You're a starfleet officer captaining a Dreadnaught that has all of the awesome that the Scimitar has, because it IS a scimitar.
...my answer on gal-r already given in the post u quoted. though u did not quote that part...
... in an alternate timeline where fed is at war with klink, so may it's closer to sto than u may think. also actually it is the very same ship. jkust refitted after alternate timeline split off...
... wiki is user written... anyone can alter over there afaik ^^+ the fact oddy is not labelled as such ingame...
...whether typhoon, nor jupiter has been on screen and are that close connected to the gal (as much i want the typhoon myself)...
... i own the scimi-pack, i fight scimis and i can tell that that is the top of cryptics incompetence to deliver something like balance. i don't fly it anymore, it's actually a class of it's own and should be labelled as t6...
whatever else, i'm not out for a discussion. have a nice day.
It's not the same ship. Never was.
The Enterprise F is labeled as such.
The Galaxy X has only been onscreen maybe 40 seconds longer than the Jupiter. So I'm not really convinced by that statement since it's 2409 and Starfleet is more than capable of making a Jupiter Dreadnaught and leaving the Galaxy behind.
Calling it Tier 6 really is a bad idea. Tier 6 would imply it has 9 weapons. It still only has 8.
Well, the galaxy was sciency not engeery.
That aside, the gx had Riker at the helm. Riker is a more agressive and wily combatant. Thats what the Galaxy truned into when he had her upgunned: a wily tool of destruction.
As to your last argument:
we do not want to fly a warbird. We want our galaxys.
Galaxys that do not suck by design.
Cryptic could have updated the ships to properly fit into the game they themselves have built.
Stop tge console nonsense. inbuild saucer sep for gal r, combined with a mode switch from science lt com to tac ltcom.
The gal x could have gone to carry an inbuild lance weapon (narrow arc high damage), akin to the dyson destroyers.
Then switch the lt com engineer with the lt tac.
Inbuild cloak, no separation
done.
Thats it. This was to much to ask?
Instead they shafted us again and why? Either because they fear we would never buy anything else but more galaxys or because they genuinly think they did good here.
In both cases they are dumb, stupid arseholes because pissing on us means our wallets slam shut by default, so they gained nothing. And pissing on us because of sheer incompetence also means that our wallets slam shut.
So TRIBBLE this insult they call a reboot.
My latest engineer to level cap flies the Ambassador because I wanted that feel, that kind of cruiser, with the science capability. So I can relate.
I guess, but that's Riker you know? Not us, as in our captain. Like in the latest FE, you get Tuvok on your bridge and can do Tuvok things. That's how this game represents those types of "Hero" characters. The ship itself is more tactical than the Galaxy R so it kind of already represents that as much as I believe Geko is willing to go with the Galaxy foundation.
While I understand that, it's just, I mean, people keep posting in the various Galaxy Reboot threads about how it's not comparable to the Scimitar.
And I don't think Geko is ever going to do that.
So like on the one hand, should the Galaxy R not be so Engineering BOFF heavy? No I don't think it should. Or if it remains that way, then engineering powers need some reorganization and tweaking so that there's less lockout of powers from shared cooldowns.
Should the ship gain more flexibility? Like maybe more science BOFF capability? Or even more Ensign to Lt. level Tactical flexibility? Absolutely!
Should the Galaxy X be a mirror image of the Scimitar?
Oh god no. That's nuts, completely out of flavor for the ship, even in its alternate timeline, and just plain asking for Geko to do something I don't think he wants to do or even can do.
If the Federation gets a scimitar like ship, it'll be in a lockbox or a brand new Zen purchase.
So maybe the Jupiter will fit that.
Well the changes so far are in line with a lot of what Geko's said about the ship and his vision for the cruisers in this game. So I don't know. I think more feedback can create some more small changes (it happened with the nebula). But I really don't see this "Give us a scimitar" movement panning out.
It is a reboot. They've reset the entire class and are now calling the alternate timeline variant that appeared onscreen for less than a minute an "ICON."
Quoting an alternate Picard from a completely different alternate universe, who was captaining a different Galaxy warship at the time, about how history will remember the Enterprise! In a game where that Enterprise is two whole ships ago.
That's a reboot to me.
Why should it match the Fleet AC/Regent?
Why do you need to use profanity (intentionally not putting a letter on a profane word doesn't make it not profane or more acceptable).
Who exactly is "you lot"?
And how much is "always"?
I have seen people complain about the Scimi' in this forum talking about how much damage it does, which some might consider where people want to benchmark their most beloved ship.
Cruisers, which the Galaxy X is a family member of, get Commander Engineering. To make the ship different, fixing the lance so it actually hits would be a start.
I beg to differ with you, there are several people who want the Gal-R to be a warship, if you check the thread out again, you will see that they are all over here.
This thread is still...
...why...
What about an integral seep ration console, and without changing the ranks of the Boff stations, give it universal bridge stations. The BoP has them, why can't we? That's going to be to OP. What about two phasers in the foreword arc always fire as beam overload, but can't use faw? It needs something to make it unique. And I'm more concerned with the R than the X. Any ideas how to make the Galaxy class unique?
What about the defector shot they rigged up to shoot the Borg cube? Or a La Forge power that allowed the shields or weapons to adapt to the enemy? Maybe it increases in damage up to 5% each phaser the longer you shoot at the enemy. Or maybe a firing patter Sierra for the torpedoes that does some kind of special to hit bonus. Or maybe the phasers, because they did this all the time in the show, actually disable a system more often, 25% disable, an engine! weapon! or shield for 3-5 seconds unless you use a repair, or hazard emitter to clear it.
I think there is something awesome out there that doesn't have to be just a raw increase in dps. Let's figure it out and post it before we have to accept what most admit is a less than awesome solution....
the only thing keeping a galaxy class ship from being a full fighter carrier is a change of shuttle roster. (srsly that thing is a cavern of a main shuttle bay)
in the show she fully had the capability to field a wing of shuttles or runabouts, but was never in a situation where that would be necessary. if you use shuttle craft or runabouts, its perfectly cannon.
in short, your objections to the addition of a hangar are illogical.
Carrying a bunch of shuttles around for the captain's leisurely trips to Risa does not make a ship a "Carrier."
it turns out my idea about the station fliping on the galaxy X would put it in second place behind the scimitar though. but, its still second place, and not entirely inappropriate. im not sure why the feds and kdf shouldn't have a near scimitar of their own too.
as a reminder, a station fliping galaxy X would look like this
unseped
COM eng
LTC tac
LT eng
LT sci
ENS uni
seped
COM tac
LTC eng
LT eng
LT sci
ENS uni
with 4 tac consoles, ya, it would be the most deadly fed cruiser, but it shouldn't necessarily not be. its a dreadnought, and dreadnaughts tend to be cruisers with COM tac, there is precedent here.
the R would look like this
unseped
COM eng
LTC eng
LT tac
LTsci
ENS uni
seped
COMeng
LTC tac
LT eng
LT sci
ENS uni
unseped you could argue that it should have a LTC sci, but i dont want to step directly on the face of the ambassador. the saucer sep is supposed to be a tactical enhancement, its only a appropriate for its LTC to turn tac on separation.
giving it a hanger takes away the 2 best cruiser comm command things, nerfing the ship overall. this isnt just about some canon principle
I get where you guys are coming from... but Exploration is not a true consideration in this game. You know that. Sure, there are those missions/systems out there, but there is absolutely nothing meaningful out there to exercise the mission Starfleet is famed for: Long ranged, long duration, Exploration Missions such as what Kirk & Picard had done on their Enterprises.
There is nothing in the game for canon Exploration Vessels to really put their teeth into, such as the Galaxy Class and the Intrepid Class.
There is one meaningful thing to do in STO. And that's combat. Unlike even Bridge Commander and Starfleet Command games, you don't even have the option to go from No Alert, Yellow Alert, to full on Red Alert, and how your systems and ship acts in those modes. In STO, there is no other content than combat. So it's Red Alert as soon as you warp in.
Compound this with the game having no true use of "Tanks" then you can see why a lack of offensive strength (or good Sci ability as a different measure) relegates ships to the junkheap in player opinions. You don't even really need top of the line healers, because every ship and build has sufficient heals and cross healing to make dedicated healers irrelevant.
I like this part, because it dashes the notion that Starfleet is so technologically advanced over any competition that it should be the excuse for Feds to crush everything with ease. Picard & Kirk had to talk their way out of dilemma many times because their ships couldn't muscle them out of a problem. Alot of Feds here forget about this glaring obviousness from all of Star Trek.
There were reasons why the Federation and Starfleet were so worried about their rivals such as the Romulans, Cardassians, and Klingons... because they had to be pretty darn good themselves and have comparable technology and warfighting capability to compete.
such a large portion of the ships structure devoted to hangar space suggests otherwise.
The Constitution-class had shuttle bays (2, 3) taking up a significant portion of the hull, maybe that should be a hangar too. The Intrepid's hangar also is a good portion of its hull. That, too?
Yeah, I guess... if it carries a handful of shuttles, it qualifies a ship to have the space, resources, ordnance, to maintain, upkeep, load/unload weapons, and lauch/recover fighters on a scale that actual, dedicated carriers are supposed to do :rolleyes:
Sorry, just because a ship carried Picard's yacht doesn't mean is should be a carrier. When was the last time in all of Star Trek you saw ANY Galaxy class spewing wings of fighters and *snicker* combat hardened shuttle crews into combat? Really? :P
And it still makes Cryptic's idea of "Slap a Hangar on it and be done with it" development process laughable.
Maybe give Gal-R a better impulse mod, then most cruisers? Becuase at the point of this revamp the only thing Gal-R maybe has over Gal-X is 5 engi slots and more cruiser commands.... Not even its consoles are safe from it, while it is cool that Gal-x can saucer sep, the Gal-R is getting stripped all its uniqueness and just handing it to another ship.
Keep in mind that they released a MU Cheyenne which is the exact same as the Ambassador, only better since it comes with a 3/3/3 layout. That argument is invalid, having a PAYSHIP with that layout is perfectly viable. LTC for the Gal-R would be appropriate.
No it's not. It's class is "Dreadnaught Cruiser" which is a unique class - no ship except the Galaxy AGT Refit is part of that class. The others are "Dreadnaughts".
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Edit: The Constitution class by the way, that was an exploration ship,that filled the role of a heavy cruiser, and was designated as such, despite its primary mission of 5 year exploration. The Excelsior? She was a test bed for transwarp drive, and was basically a bigger Enterprise, Connie class, just watch trek 3-6. The Explorer designation was intended to get back to Starfleets roots of exploration and not scare the TRIBBLE out of the enemies of the federation. It's asinine to assume that means the Galaxy was not a capable warship. The Galaxy was a shop intended to show both the Federations might, but primary purpose of exploration. Suggesting otherwise is just a desire to push back against this thread that I don't understand. Or lack of knowledge. Hell even the Ambassador class came out BECAUSE the Excelsior couldn't hold its own any longer.
Don't waste your breath. Everyone regualirly partaking in this thread know that a explorer facing the unknown without the ability to defend itself is just a foolish assumption. It seems to irk many people beyond belief that a ship that's not classified in the way present day military ships are should be able to keep up or even outgun those badass super mean battlewarships of doom. They also cannot, ever, get over the fact that Starfleet in TNG was something different than the united states navy and that being peaceful and being powerful can actually go together. Those people cannot, ever, accept the fact that Star Trek envisioned a society that could defend itself very well without abusing the force they had at their command since it's the current zeitgeist to shoot first and ask question later... or never. Because if the other guy is dead you are better off anyway. It's like talking against a brick wall.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
We'll said!
I'm going to add this though, Constitution class, primary mission, 5 year exploration, designation: Heavy Cruiser.
Excelsior basically a giant Constitution designed to test transwarp drive. Still primarily an exploration ship designed to replace the Constitution.
Guess what replaced the Excelsior? The Ambassador, built mostly for the same reason as the Constitution and the Excelsior class ships. Exploration, with some TRIBBLE kicking if needed.
At this point even the most idiotic should see what's coming, yes the Galaxy class is just the outgrowth of the before mentioned classes.
And yes, everyone's favorite ship the Sovvy, guess what, cataloging gaseous anomalies at the start of first contact, and later in the movies Riker saying, Remember when we actually did some exploring. Guess what the Sovvy was supposed to do as well as fight?
Wait who said it should be better than the Sovvy? The Nebula in all reality is the same thing as the Miranda, a kitbash, or if you want more canon, it was cheaper to use successful proven hulls to make a new ship that was more science than the Galaxy class. As for the Excelsior, come on, she was used to ferry personnel around at that point. Workhorse as in pack mule maybe. The Borg cut the primary hull of one in half with one shot.
Edit: and no one wants it better than the Avenger. Last thing we need is that kind of power creep.
LOL
The thing keeping the Galaxy class from being a carrier is called the Star Trek mantra, something that Cryptic often conveniently disregards in their hunt for more $$$.
And all of that makes me a sad panda.
Luckily though, we have the KDF, so whenever I feel frustrated that I can't explore I just hop onto my KDF chars and go on a rampage against Feds to blow some steam.
Long live the KDF! Qapla'!
You're so very right. And that makes me kinda' sad. I feel sorry for those people.
They don't realize that they've essentialy isolated themselves in their own restricted space of thought without looking outside of the box. And there are beautiful things outside.
The Enterprise was the UFPs flagship. It seems logical that they'd not sent her off into the depths of space but instead use her to show off a bit. You are right, although they did encounter the unknown and omnipotent often enough
In-universe I'd suspect that there were just far more Excelsiors available. We only know about 6 Galaxy Classes to the time of TNG of which 3 were commissioned, the other 3 remained in dock as far as I remember. Roddenberry himself said that Starfleet wouldn't commission a large number of those explorers. You are entirely right that the resources needed to build one are massive - that's why the Nebula replaced the Excelsior as the "workorse". Besides, as shanseifert already said, the Excelsiors we see are primarily used for transportation and patrol duty. The days of the Excelsior are numbered in TNG, don't forget that ultimately, if not the Nebula, the Cheyenne would probably replace the Excelsior entirely (in-unverse speculation. Out-of-universe we know that the budget wasn't there to build new ships, they had the Excelsior model and used it throughout TNG and the Cheyenne was, of course, just a kitbash for the graveyard scene. But it used a Ent-D saucer, so it would be a Galaxy derivation as well, prooving - in-universe - that the design was a success).
Again, as already mentioned by shanseifert, nobody wants the Galaxy to be better at "fighting" than the Sovereign or the Avenger-thingy. The Sovereign has a completely different purpose than the Galaxy. As you said yourself, the Galaxy is a massive beast of a ship. It's meant to operate on it's own for years and be ready to take anything that it might encounter but it's also an expensive project. Smaller, more advanced ships are used for different tasks plus the massive Galaxy isn't all that nimble to stand in for a "battle cruiser" - I entirely think the Sovereign sports similiar armament and more manneuvreability but sacrifices other things for it.
Having the Galaxy be as capable tactically as a Negh'Var is entirely true to the IP, the Vor'Cha be comparable to the Sovereign also makes sense. The problem is that STO pumps out more "warfighter doombrigade battleships" non-canon designs that just ridicule the canon designs we know.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!