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Juel Ducane (Warp Theorist) doff proc chances don't stack
lucho80
Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
So Juel Ducane is one of the temporal doffs and supposedly gives a 25% chance to disable one subsystem when using Energy Siphon. So I finally got around to testing this doff and the problem it has comes down to the 25% chance of the doff proc not stacking. You can have 1, 2 or 3 of the same doff active, and the chance stays at 25%.
Image showing I was using 3 of them from the ES1 tooltip:
http://i39.tinypic.com/2100qc6.jpg
Number of runs 52
Weapons Disabled: 3
Shields Disabled: 4
Engines Disabled: 4
Aux Disabled: 2
Total disabled: 13
Total nothing: 39
% of disabled: 25% (It hovered between 20%-30%, depending on how streaky the proc got)
The correct chances would be:
Slot 1 = 25% chance of proc
Slot 2 = 43.75% chance of proc
Slot 3 = 57.8125% chance of proc
Instead what is going on is:
Slot 1 = 25% chance of proc
Slot 2 = 25% chance of proc
Slot 3 = 25% chance of proc
Either we weren't meant to slot more than one, which makes the doff useless because it procs once every 2 minutes (Considering 2 copies of ES being used at global CD), or the stacking chances of disabling is broken.
Image showing I was using 3 of them from the ES1 tooltip:
http://i39.tinypic.com/2100qc6.jpg
Number of runs 52
Weapons Disabled: 3
Shields Disabled: 4
Engines Disabled: 4
Aux Disabled: 2
Total disabled: 13
Total nothing: 39
% of disabled: 25% (It hovered between 20%-30%, depending on how streaky the proc got)
The correct chances would be:
Slot 1 = 25% chance of proc
Slot 2 = 43.75% chance of proc
Slot 3 = 57.8125% chance of proc
Instead what is going on is:
Slot 1 = 25% chance of proc
Slot 2 = 25% chance of proc
Slot 3 = 25% chance of proc
Either we weren't meant to slot more than one, which makes the doff useless because it procs once every 2 minutes (Considering 2 copies of ES being used at global CD), or the stacking chances of disabling is broken.
Post edited by lucho80 on
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Comments
Setting aside the fact that I am almost certain you can only equip one Joel Ducane (thats how it was back when I payed a siphoner, perhaps its been broken or changed. it would stands to reason that a unique named doff would only allow one per active duty) - Doff chances 'Roll' Per Doff.
With 3 doffs that grant a 25% chance to do something, you get 3 seperate rolls at 25%, you Do Not get 75% chance.
1) You can equip 3, hence why the tooltip reflects 3 equipped. If the bug is that that behavior wasn't intended, then I'll grind two of them and throw the resulting blues into the Exchange.
2) Yes, I screwed up my math. The probability of me not getting the disable on those 3 rolls is about 43%, so I'd have about a 57% chance of the proc going off.
Regardless, either the fact that you can slot 3 has to be fixed or all 3 having some effect has to be fixed.
1) The 25% chance doesn't stack when slotting 3 of them.
OR
2) We're not supposed to be able to slot 3 and the system lets us.
It NEVER disables more than one subsystem. You slot 3 and you disable one subsystem about 25% of the time.
3x doffs = 3 four sided dice rolls. if any of your 3 dice roll a 1, you get the proc Once.
I don't think you read the original post. This is not a cooldown doff.
Power: 25% chance to disable one subsystem for 5 seconds when using Energy Siphon.
You equip 1, you disable a subsystem 25% of the time.
You equip 2, you still disable only 25% of the time.
You equip 3, you still disable only 25% of the time.
Energy Siphon has a 30 sec global cooldown.
If I have two copies of ES, it means even if I have 3 of these doffs, I have a chance to disable a subsystem for 5 seconds every 2 minutes with this doff in its present state.
If it worked correctly, it would still only disable a subsystem about once every minute. Still kind of junk, but I'd risk using it anyway.
Right now, I'd rather try my luck with the phaser proc than using this doff.
Regardless, his/her point is valid in case of any and all doffs which can be used in multiples.
Fine, I did correct myself on the chances thing a bunch of posts earlier. With each having its own roll, and considering I can equip 3, it would either:
1) Disable 1-3 subsystems each time I use Energy Siphon (It always only disables one).
2) See a slight increase in the times it disables a single subsystem. Yes, 3 rolls of 25% is not 75%, I screwed up there, but if you get 3 separate rolls, each with a 25% chance to disable one subsystem, the proc chance would be closer to 58% (Chance of all 3 independent rolls not procing is 42.1875%).
#2 is not OP since it still means a 5 sec single subsystem disable each minute, which you could pull off much more easily with phasers procs. #1 would seem a bit OP, but why would I be able to equip 3 of these and not get #1 or #2.
I did test it, it does proc 25%,of the time. My problem is why the heck they let me slot 3 when more than one doesn't improve my chances of disabling a subsystem or sometimes disable two or three subsystems.
Note: Yes, it would be 3 rolls with a 25% chance each, but the chance of all 3 not procing is lower hence an increased chance of at least 1 procing.
New thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=14424611
Slot 1 = 25% chance of proc
Slot 2 = 43.75% chance of proc
Slot 3 = 57.8125% chance of proc
Instead what is going on is:
Slot 1 = 25% chance of proc
Slot 2 = 25% chance of proc
Slot 3 = 25% chance of proc
Either we weren't meant to slot more than one, which makes the doff useless because it procs once every 2 minutes (Considering 2 copies of ES being used at global CD), or the stacking chances of disabling is broken.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
My test was against another non moving target in PvP. Easy to see it proc like that.
I also use phased polaron weapons, and they at a mere 2.5% proc it seems they proc 10-50x more often than compaired to energy siphon.
Now of course I understand it's because weapons are firing more often than waiting on a skill to cd, but even when I manually use one polaron weapon, and compare it to the skill/boff it still seems lower than a 25% chance.
Oh and the borg and tholians are the worst to test this on, as they both have a good chance to clear it.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Thank you to those of you who reported this issue initially as well as those of you who bumped this thread.
I've gone ahead and verified this issue with the Warp Theorist specialization being unable to effect more than 1 sub system when 2 or more doffs of this specialization variant are slotted to your active roster.
It is now in our internal database. I appreciate everyone's patience with us and hope you all are enjoying a good time with out latest content release.
Yay! Another doff bug being looked at! Mission accomplished.
By the way, don't know what has changed over there this week, but your bug replies have skyrocketed from the norm. Thank you all for what seems to be finally dedicating more time to squashing bugs.
FYI, I have no idea what the intended functionality of having more than one slotted was supposed to be so you'll have to check that part:
1) Making it proc more often.
2) Disabling 1 to 3 subsystems depending on how many of the doffs proc.
I noticed as well.
Thanks to Mezirath and Crypticfrost for collecting bug reports and making us aware of it.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Hey there. Whilst you're at it could you please look at the DOFF that is supposed to reduce the cooldown on deflector abilities but doesn't affect Energy Siphon? I've submitted tickets on this for well over a year now, and the forum posts I posted regarding this have never been answered. Seeing as you're in a post answering mood can you add this to list of things to do please?
see? i haz proofz! that's from the january 30th patch notes, if you'd care to take a look yourself
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But from what I understood is that no matter what the percentage change to do something is, stack multiple Doffs would not increase that chance. What it would do however is give more rolls of the chance die as it were.
So in the OPs example he would have 3 rolls (3 DOff) each roll at 25% percent.
Hence the overall procs from their testing hovering between 20 to 30%.
I maybe wrong if totally misunderstood prior Devs comments on DOff Procs.