Then again, for all any of us know, those could be sock puppets. It is not unheard of for sock puppets to post things like fake reviews, posts, and other similar content to further an agenda.
I think it's a bit much to propose that they've been operating accounts with active Raptr feeds of multiple games and hundreds of forum posts, just so that some day they could sock puppet for ARC. If you're going to engage in conspiracy theory, at least keep it plausible. :rolleyes:
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I think it's a bit much to propose that they've been operating accounts with active Raptr feeds of multiple games and hundreds of forum posts, just so that some day they could sock puppet for ARC. If you're going to engage in conspiracy theory, at least keep it plausible. :rolleyes:
Visit Amazon eBooks and tell me that again. Good Reads, which is now owned by Amazon, had several groups of admitted sock puppets that would either flaunt or troll an author's book or other works to either prop them up or destroy them. This is a well known issue in the world of publishing. Who says it cannot happen here?
I am talking about people with upwards of 20 accounts, all used for the sole purpose of trolling those they felt were unworthy of their praise or who didn't go along with their way of thinking. It has slowed some now that people are bringing lawsuits for libel against some of the individuals, but these things do happen.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
Well, I'm not a "sock puppet", but personally I don't see what all the fuss is about :rolleyes: ...
Arc is like Nitrogen gas in the atmosphere, it doesn't help us really, but it doesn't harm us either ... It's there so just ignore it and move on.
Arc is PWE's launcher, and I've not doubt it's here to stay, so complaining about it won't change anything ...
As already mentioned (several times, on several threads) It's funny that Steam used to be the most evil thing the gaming industry ever created, and their are still a few "I hate Steam" threads and posts around the net, but most now accept it, and ... Move on!
I liked the new Beta version it was great, liked how they had the background that was cool, I don't understand why people hate ARC so much I love ARC its great
I liked the new Beta version it was great, liked how they had the background that was cool, I don't understand why people hate ARC so much I love ARC its great
1) A lot of people fear the unknown and there is a lot of unknowns surrounding Arc
2) It feels like something is being forced on us (not the first time if you've been here long enough to remember the forum merger)
3) It adds no functionality that is essential to the game
4) It takes away some functionality of the game like running multiple clients on the same machine
5) It adds an extra server that can and will go down that we must access to play the game
6) It uses more than the insignificant amount of resources that has been claimed be the Arc PR
Some of these points have workaround for now while we can still close Arc after launching the game through the task manager but if that is ever taken away every point becomes very valid and unavoidable.
Well I'm taking the plunge... I have the original installation running on my main PC, now I have posted many times that I'm unhappy with the introduction of ARC, but as I am planning on completely wiping and re-installing this 2nd PC I've decided to try ARC.
First of all the dl/installation was quick and easy, options for privacy used and no sign of any hidden 'features' so far.
I'm typing this on the arc browser while DL/installing STO, which is currently trying to update launcher...
Total time so far 28 mins!
STO now updating...
Arc.exe*32 = 80,064kb
ArcOSBrowser = 71,392kb
Star trek online*32 = 80,271kb (while updating)
I'll update this post when update is complete.
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." — Lazarus Long --->Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Thank you all for the warm welcomes, I really appreciate it. I know a lot of you have questions, so I'll see what I can answer.
1) A lot of you have expressed concerned with dual clients running and I wanted to let you know that we are aware of this, and will let you know when we get more updates regarding this. Arc is still in beta, so a lot of functionality is either not implemented yet, or is being worked on.
2) We're currently looking at the resources it's using to see if we can find any potential issues.
3) I've read a good amount of issues regarding the scroll bar in Arc. I've brought that up with the rest of the team, so we are also aware of that.
If I missed anything else, feel free to point it out. I'm constantly browsing the forums looking for any and all feedback I can. I understand all of your concerns and I do want you to know that I'm elevating all of your feedback to the right people. Once again, thank you all and I hope to hear from you soon!
Highlighted the key statement. Pointing out that a majority do not even want this bloatware. You missed that when pointing out what you are seeing as far as feedback goes.
-Rule of Acquisition #113: Always have sex with the boss.
-I am one of the many victims from the hijacked Caspian Division.
I will not let the childish acts of a criminal ruin this game for me.
-The actions of Cryptic, on the other hand......
You understand and agree that the Software may monitor and communicate information from your computer, including without limitation information relating to hardware capacity and modifications.
So to me that reads you can grab any information from my PC if you want to, and its not limited. I don't give a hoot about my configuration of my machine, or if you know it. I do however object to you being able to record data on when or what I am doing at a given time, even when its not related to PWE. Because that's how that part of the EULA reads.
You tighten that part of the EULA up to restrict it to PWE software and I might well consider installing the software.
A thought occurs. When Arc is mandatory, and a Lifer refuses to the EULA, surely you are then breaking the agreement between the Lifer and the company? Namely the ability to access the game for its entire lifetime.
And As we know EULA's aren't worth spit in the EU.
The above is in no way a threat, just a little curiosity that popped into my mind.
Thank you all for the warm welcomes, I really appreciate it. I know a lot of you have questions, so I'll see what I can answer.
1) A lot of you have expressed concerned with dual clients running and I wanted to let you know that we are aware of this, and will let you know when we get more updates regarding this. Arc is still in beta, so a lot of functionality is either not implemented yet, or is being worked on.
2) We're currently looking at the resources it's using to see if we can find any potential issues.
3) I've read a good amount of issues regarding the scroll bar in Arc. I've brought that up with the rest of the team, so we are also aware of that.
If I missed anything else, feel free to point it out. I'm constantly browsing the forums looking for any and all feedback I can. I understand all of your concerns and I do want you to know that I'm elevating all of your feedback to the right people. Once again, thank you all and I hope to hear from you soon!
Ok, here's the number-one and number-two issues that I have seen with ARC:
1. Massive customer dislike. What are you going to do about the abject hatred that many members of the community have for ARC?
2. Spying. Why did ARC trip all of my spyware monitors, try to download my private browsing information, and generally behave as a sophisticated virus before I removed it from my computer? What are you going to do to address this issue?
And my personal biggest beef:
For those people who do not want to install the ARC client, will you insist on making ARC the only way to run STO and other Cryptic games? Because I can tell you first-hand that the ONLY thing stopping me from playing CO and Neverwinter is the mandatory ARC download, and I'll bet that there are many other people on these forums of the exact same opinion.
Noticed something the other day when using arc to log in for the khan outfit. After clicking play, it launched the original STO launcher and then launched the game from that. What is the point of Arc if it's going to use the original launcher? We can use the original launcher ourselves and the majority of us would prefer to do so.
-Rule of Acquisition #113: Always have sex with the boss.
-I am one of the many victims from the hijacked Caspian Division.
I will not let the childish acts of a criminal ruin this game for me.
-The actions of Cryptic, on the other hand......
Noticed something the other day when using arc to log in for the khan outfit. After clicking play, it launched the original STO launcher and then launched the game from that. What is the point of Arc if it's going to use the original launcher? We can use the original launcher ourselves and the majority of us would prefer to do so.
They have basically said this is temporary. When Arc fully rolls out, the STO launcher, and all launchers for PWE games, will be gone. Arc is going to become a single launcher for all the games.
A thought occurs. When Arc is mandatory, and a Lifer refuses to the EULA, surely you are then breaking the agreement between the Lifer and the company? Namely the ability to access the game for its entire lifetime.
And As we know EULA's aren't worth spit in the EU.
Sadly that's not the case in the US. EULA's are generally binding here (I think there have been an exception or two). As a lifer myself, I don't like it either.
Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if the EULA originally said something along the lines of "we reserve the right to change this agreement at our whim."
Sadly that's not the case in the US. EULA's are generally binding here (I think there have been an exception or two). As a lifer myself, I don't like it either.
Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if the EULA originally said something along the lines of "we reserve the right to change this agreement at our whim."
Try the Sales of goods act (Or your local equivalent there of), at least in the UK that applies to services as well.
As I said by EU law EULA aren't worth anything, and as the ARC EULA says its governed by EU law...
But that wasn't my main point, it was more idle curiosity. The main point is: If you' want to collate data be open about it, otherwise people will tell PWE to go away. As you've all but admitted in your EULA you'll be gathering data about anything and everything that happens on my machine, well, not going to happen.
Lets put it another way. Most MMO's die early, those that get past the first year or so normally have enough oomph to go for the long haul. Yet adding a program that will spy on your users is going to drive lots of customers away.
So I guess ARC has the following options:
1: Carry on as is, and potentially kill off the golden goose.
2: Change the Spyware parts of the program and the EULA, and be open about it. And watch Cryptics games continue to grow. Because having to down load something that is openly saying it will spy on you, well news of that will get round, and do you really want that PR disaster on your games.
Quick poll, that new Cryptic MMO that they've started working on, lets say its a Firefly MMO. Hands up all those would would DL the game if they knew they had to get ARC, and that it was going to gather data on them...
The other thing is, ignoring people with these questions, like has been happening isn't going to make them go away, if anything the silence is deafening, and makes you look even more guilty!
I'm not as a rule opposed to ARC, I am opposed to mysterious pieces of software which thinks it has a legal right to potentially spy on my computer use.
I don;t know why we are bothering to give anymore feedback as it is falling on deaths ears. Arc will be forced upon us and maybe Steam users can use STO without for a short team before they to are converted to Arc. Arc is a useless piece of spyware which has no use to he customer and will never be downloaded by me and if that means I don't play STO anymore well considering the mindless grind the game is slowly becoming I'm better off finding something else to play.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don;t know why we are bothering to give anymore feedback as it is falling on deaths ears. Arc will be forced upon us and maybe Steam users can use STO without for a short team before they to are converted to Arc. Arc is a useless piece of spyware which has no use to he customer and will never be downloaded by me and if that means I don't play STO anymore well considering the mindless grind the game is slowly becoming I'm better off finding something else to play.
Do we have any evidence to suggest that STO will be available to patch via Steam? If Steam patching is to be enabled then by all means continue, but one thing is certain I will not have Arc on my computer.
I have stopped purchasing anything from the Z-Store until I know what is happening with Arc as I could end up wasting my money. Think about that one, the mere threat of Arc has stopped me from purchasing from Cryptic.
Lol, so if a pwe boss say to a def , tell them we not spying on them you belief the def...
or do you think the def will look into arc to see if its spying ?? and if it does tell us and doesn't lissen to his boss ?
You're already running their software on your computer. If they need to spy on you, they could just put the "spy-code" in Startrek Online. It's not like you need to launch Arc on startup.
Resource Consumption? Have you really checked that it consumes a lot?I suppose some PCs can't afford to run a browser, mail client and a OneNote/Word/Excel parallel to STO, but I think many can do that without a hitch.
I don't think Arc is stricly speaking necessary and it's not really useful to me - I can use the old launchers just fine and I have a browser for visiting the STO and other game websites already. But the rest seems more tinfoil territory or simply false assumptions at work.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I don't want or need it, since it provides no functionality that I don't already have in another form. It's like adding a standard Cloaking Device to a B'Rel Retrofit in addition to the Enhanced Battle Cloak; sure it's something added on, but what does it actually accomplish? The resources spent on its development could be better allocated to fixing the bugs we see in the game, even if you have "a core technology that means our designers can focus less on a game's nuts and bolts"...
Security and privacy are both concerns as well. You see that hyperlink above? You can follow those in Arc as well as in your standard browser... has Arc added the convenient little banner down there that displays the target, and do you have access to your various security plugins within the overlay's web browser? Do my privacy settings from my current web browser apply to the Arc web browser (not the Arc privacy settings, but the privacy settings that apply when visiting other sites)
copied this from another user. (above) read alot of posts and the devs are being very selective on answering, they clearly do not seem to want to see 98% do not want Arc. Cryptic, please just actully listen to what people are saying, What good is arc if people leave the game over it.
Sadly I will not get an answer, they are full blown on forcing Arc and will not accept that we do not want it, maybe someday, just maybe they may listen!
I caved in. Downloaded Arc for the Khan costume. IMMEDIATELY deleted it. STO is the only game I play. There was nothing on that software that remotely interested me. Social hub - useless - all my friends are IN STO. Info on other games - useless - assuming I want to play with Trolls and Elves because I play STO is incorrect, therefore I dont care about other games. Installing Arc so I can launch the SAME launcher? - suspect at best.
I'm hoping that they aren't counting hits for downloading it as any kind of success factor. Sooo many of my fleet mates downloaded and deleted it just for the costume.
If they do and post something about the number of downloads, they better be ready to report how many uninstalls were recorded since they have a survey at the end asking why it's being uninstalled. So that "we have no numbers" is BS.
Steam isn't an option. You can't launch the same game more than once, nor can you launch other steam games. Perhaps there are exceptions, but I've tried with other games and it doesn't work. I don't have my STO installed via Steam and don't intend to (unless Arc is forced).
EDIT: I just thought about it, and some games can be launched directly outside of Steam, even if they were installed by it. That would counter the issues I just mentioned. I still don't like the lack of install location customization, but I can deal with that if I have to use Steam.
.
You can tell Steam where to install. It's just not that easily found.
Thank you all for the warm welcomes, I really appreciate it. I know a lot of you have questions, so I'll see what I can answer.
1) A lot of you have expressed concerned with dual clients running and I wanted to let you know that we are aware of this, and will let you know when we get more updates regarding this. Arc is still in beta, so a lot of functionality is either not implemented yet, or is being worked on.
2) We're currently looking at the resources it's using to see if we can find any potential issues.
3) I've read a good amount of issues regarding the scroll bar in Arc. I've brought that up with the rest of the team, so we are also aware of that.
If I missed anything else, feel free to point it out. I'm constantly browsing the forums looking for any and all feedback I can. I understand all of your concerns and I do want you to know that I'm elevating all of your feedback to the right people. Once again, thank you all and I hope to hear from you soon!
Not a technical issue, per se, but I have to tell you that the arcgames.com News pages being shoe-horned into my Arc client drives me crazy.
It's too cluttered and too busy, and it's all crammed into a narrow area that the content wasn't designed to live in. If you have to use tiled content in there, at least make it all one vertical column.
If you can do something to fix this, I'd deeply appreciate it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I have a serious question here. Ignoring the fact that it's buggy as hell, if the arc software did in fact work, would there actually be a single benefit for us as players? Because as far as I can tell, even if it did work it'd still just be inconveniencing us so that they can advertise their other games.
I have a serious question here. Ignoring the fact that it's buggy as hell, if the arc software did in fact work, would there actually be a single benefit for us as players? Because as far as I can tell, even if it did work it'd still just be inconveniencing us so that they can advertise their other games.
I suspect that they want to eventually add functionality that makes it useful. For now, it's just a glorified launcher with limited webbrowsing.
I could imagine that Arc in the future could be an interface to game elements that don't require you to actively log into a specific game. Say, facilitate trade, visit certain status information (how are the STO PvP Queues today?), maybe interfaces for parts of the game (say, STO DOFFs).
Alternatively, it could be that they really want to make it a second Steam, and add a lot of new games to Arc that you can acquire via the interface. Maybe not just games made by Perfect World itself.
Immediate benefits for them:
o Making the other PWE games more visible to players of specific games. they might hope to get some STO fans to play PW or some PW fans to play Champions or whatever.
o A unified launcher architecture could make development of future games easier. Deployment can be a surprisingly big topic for any type of software - at the point where you want to do more than xcopy deployment, you can spend a lot of effort just creating your deployment system. And particularly F2P titles and MMOs require a lot of this, since you have to consider downloading regular patches and content updates. (Remember when Cryptic couldn't do in-game patching?)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I wasn't impressed it with Arc. The only thing it did right was automatically log me in to STO when I clicked play. Other than that, the huge window full of games I have no interest in is pointless for me. When playing over wireless, I find that Arc impacts the smoothness that I used to get out of playing STO. It's not game breaking but I have seen more stuttering while playing with Arc installed than I have without it. Having a client run in the background delivering advertising does nothing for me when it is hidden behind the game I am playing. Why does this need to be running and using my internet while I am playing a game?
I have removed Arc from my notebook and installed STO through the old installer without Arc. I find playing over wireless a smoother experience once again. Once Arc becomes mandatory, I will be saying goodbye to STO.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
I suspect that they want to eventually add functionality that makes it useful. For now, it's just a glorified launcher with limited webbrowsing.
I could imagine that Arc in the future could be an interface to game elements that don't require you to actively log into a specific game. Say, facilitate trade, visit certain status information (how are the STO PvP Queues today?), maybe interfaces for parts of the game (say, STO DOFFs).
Alternatively, it could be that they really want to make it a second Steam, and add a lot of new games to Arc that you can acquire via the interface. Maybe not just games made by Perfect World itself.
Immediate benefits for them:
o Making the other PWE games more visible to players of specific games. they might hope to get some STO fans to play PW or some PW fans to play Champions or whatever.
o A unified launcher architecture could make development of future games easier. Deployment can be a surprisingly big topic for any type of software - at the point where you want to do more than xcopy deployment, you can spend a lot of effort just creating your deployment system. And particularly F2P titles and MMOs require a lot of this, since you have to consider downloading regular patches and content updates. (Remember when Cryptic couldn't do in-game patching?)
I can see Arc having one very clear use to me. I buy Zen and it sits in an Arc Bank and gets used in which ever game of theirs I might choose to play. Instead of being locked to a specific title.
But the one concern I have for future functionality is that a launcher built today may not support what they want to do in two months and they need to start all over again with the beta process, where individual game launchers don't have this issue.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Top four Arc issues so far:
1. I still have to hit engage in the old launcher after I click play in Arc.
2. The Arc client doesn't automatically close after I exit STO.
3. The Arc client will not exit after I click close. It just minimizes down to my hidden icon group on my task bar. When I say close, I don't mean minimize.
4. It won't let me buy Zen through Google Wallet. A blank pop-up opened instead of my log in for wallet. I had to go back to the STO Perfect World site to purchase Zen.
I know there hasn't been a lot of communication on the spyware issue, so I'm going to give you a brief explanation on what we can actually track. In short, we don't track anything you don't want us to, as we have the opt-in feature for if you choose to let us. All this feature allows us to do is track your system information that can be easily found when you navigate to "Help">"System Information" in Arc. We do this as it helps us find any potential software and hardware issues, which in turn allows us to better optimize Arc for as many configurations as possible. Keep in mind though, that this is all through the opt-in system. If you do not opt-in, we will not be able to track your system information.
I hope that clears things up, and if there's anything else please let me know.
I know there hasn't been a lot of communication on the spyware issue, so I'm going to give you a brief explanation on what we can actually track. In short, we don't track anything you don't want us to, as we have the opt-in feature for if you choose to let us. All this feature allows us to do is track your system information that can be easily found when you navigate to "Help">"System Information" in Arc. We do this as it helps us find any potential software and hardware issues, which in turn allows us to better optimize Arc for as many configurations as possible. Keep in mind though, that this is all through the opt-in system. If you do not opt-in, we will not be able to track your system information.
I hope that clears things up, and if there's anything else please let me know.
resource overhead is still way high for the client, especially considering the distinct lack of functionality. Couple that with ancillary processes like the ArcWebOS process and you are using somewhere in the range of a quarter of a gig 250Mb of memory for the client. That is pretty steep and REALLY needs to come down, alot.
I know there hasn't been a lot of communication on the spyware issue, so I'm going to give you a brief explanation on what we can actually track. In short, we don't track anything you don't want us to, as we have the opt-in feature for if you choose to let us. All this feature allows us to do is track your system information that can be easily found when you navigate to "Help">"System Information" in Arc. We do this as it helps us find any potential software and hardware issues, which in turn allows us to better optimize Arc for as many configurations as possible. Keep in mind though, that this is all through the opt-in system. If you do not opt-in, we will not be able to track your system information.
I hope that clears things up, and if there's anything else please let me know.
Thank you for clearing that up.
However as a freindly suggestion, that EULA is far to broad in what you monitor. It gives entirely the wrong idea. Especially as the bit about monitoring hardware is just after the bit I quoted, so it implies that you will be using it to spy.
Maybe change the EULA to reflect that. As I said at current its far to broad, and I'll not be using it under that EULA.
Comments
I think it's a bit much to propose that they've been operating accounts with active Raptr feeds of multiple games and hundreds of forum posts, just so that some day they could sock puppet for ARC. If you're going to engage in conspiracy theory, at least keep it plausible. :rolleyes:
Visit Amazon eBooks and tell me that again. Good Reads, which is now owned by Amazon, had several groups of admitted sock puppets that would either flaunt or troll an author's book or other works to either prop them up or destroy them. This is a well known issue in the world of publishing. Who says it cannot happen here?
I am talking about people with upwards of 20 accounts, all used for the sole purpose of trolling those they felt were unworthy of their praise or who didn't go along with their way of thinking. It has slowed some now that people are bringing lawsuits for libel against some of the individuals, but these things do happen.
Arc is like Nitrogen gas in the atmosphere, it doesn't help us really, but it doesn't harm us either ... It's there so just ignore it and move on.
Arc is PWE's launcher, and I've not doubt it's here to stay, so complaining about it won't change anything ...
As already mentioned (several times, on several threads) It's funny that Steam used to be the most evil thing the gaming industry ever created, and their are still a few "I hate Steam" threads and posts around the net, but most now accept it, and ... Move on!
1) A lot of people fear the unknown and there is a lot of unknowns surrounding Arc
2) It feels like something is being forced on us (not the first time if you've been here long enough to remember the forum merger)
3) It adds no functionality that is essential to the game
4) It takes away some functionality of the game like running multiple clients on the same machine
5) It adds an extra server that can and will go down that we must access to play the game
6) It uses more than the insignificant amount of resources that has been claimed be the Arc PR
Some of these points have workaround for now while we can still close Arc after launching the game through the task manager but if that is ever taken away every point becomes very valid and unavoidable.
First of all the dl/installation was quick and easy, options for privacy used and no sign of any hidden 'features' so far.
I'm typing this on the arc browser while DL/installing STO, which is currently trying to update launcher...
Total time so far 28 mins!
STO now updating...
Arc.exe*32 = 80,064kb
ArcOSBrowser = 71,392kb
Star trek online*32 = 80,271kb (while updating)
I'll update this post when update is complete.
Highlighted the key statement. Pointing out that a majority do not even want this bloatware. You missed that when pointing out what you are seeing as far as feedback goes.
-Rule of Acquisition #113: Always have sex with the boss.
-I am one of the many victims from the hijacked Caspian Division.
I will not let the childish acts of a criminal ruin this game for me.
-The actions of Cryptic, on the other hand......
Section 4(j) of the EULA reads:
So to me that reads you can grab any information from my PC if you want to, and its not limited. I don't give a hoot about my configuration of my machine, or if you know it. I do however object to you being able to record data on when or what I am doing at a given time, even when its not related to PWE. Because that's how that part of the EULA reads.
You tighten that part of the EULA up to restrict it to PWE software and I might well consider installing the software.
A thought occurs. When Arc is mandatory, and a Lifer refuses to the EULA, surely you are then breaking the agreement between the Lifer and the company? Namely the ability to access the game for its entire lifetime.
And As we know EULA's aren't worth spit in the EU.
The above is in no way a threat, just a little curiosity that popped into my mind.
Ok, here's the number-one and number-two issues that I have seen with ARC:
1. Massive customer dislike. What are you going to do about the abject hatred that many members of the community have for ARC?
2. Spying. Why did ARC trip all of my spyware monitors, try to download my private browsing information, and generally behave as a sophisticated virus before I removed it from my computer? What are you going to do to address this issue?
And my personal biggest beef:
For those people who do not want to install the ARC client, will you insist on making ARC the only way to run STO and other Cryptic games? Because I can tell you first-hand that the ONLY thing stopping me from playing CO and Neverwinter is the mandatory ARC download, and I'll bet that there are many other people on these forums of the exact same opinion.
-Rule of Acquisition #113: Always have sex with the boss.
-I am one of the many victims from the hijacked Caspian Division.
I will not let the childish acts of a criminal ruin this game for me.
-The actions of Cryptic, on the other hand......
They have basically said this is temporary. When Arc fully rolls out, the STO launcher, and all launchers for PWE games, will be gone. Arc is going to become a single launcher for all the games.
Sadly that's not the case in the US. EULA's are generally binding here (I think there have been an exception or two). As a lifer myself, I don't like it either.
Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if the EULA originally said something along the lines of "we reserve the right to change this agreement at our whim."
Try the Sales of goods act (Or your local equivalent there of), at least in the UK that applies to services as well.
As I said by EU law EULA aren't worth anything, and as the ARC EULA says its governed by EU law...
But that wasn't my main point, it was more idle curiosity. The main point is: If you' want to collate data be open about it, otherwise people will tell PWE to go away. As you've all but admitted in your EULA you'll be gathering data about anything and everything that happens on my machine, well, not going to happen.
Lets put it another way. Most MMO's die early, those that get past the first year or so normally have enough oomph to go for the long haul. Yet adding a program that will spy on your users is going to drive lots of customers away.
So I guess ARC has the following options:
1: Carry on as is, and potentially kill off the golden goose.
2: Change the Spyware parts of the program and the EULA, and be open about it. And watch Cryptics games continue to grow. Because having to down load something that is openly saying it will spy on you, well news of that will get round, and do you really want that PR disaster on your games.
Quick poll, that new Cryptic MMO that they've started working on, lets say its a Firefly MMO. Hands up all those would would DL the game if they knew they had to get ARC, and that it was going to gather data on them...
The other thing is, ignoring people with these questions, like has been happening isn't going to make them go away, if anything the silence is deafening, and makes you look even more guilty!
I'm not as a rule opposed to ARC, I am opposed to mysterious pieces of software which thinks it has a legal right to potentially spy on my computer use.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Do we have any evidence to suggest that STO will be available to patch via Steam? If Steam patching is to be enabled then by all means continue, but one thing is certain I will not have Arc on my computer.
I have stopped purchasing anything from the Z-Store until I know what is happening with Arc as I could end up wasting my money. Think about that one, the mere threat of Arc has stopped me from purchasing from Cryptic.
You're already running their software on your computer. If they need to spy on you, they could just put the "spy-code" in Startrek Online. It's not like you need to launch Arc on startup.
Resource Consumption? Have you really checked that it consumes a lot?I suppose some PCs can't afford to run a browser, mail client and a OneNote/Word/Excel parallel to STO, but I think many can do that without a hitch.
I don't think Arc is stricly speaking necessary and it's not really useful to me - I can use the old launchers just fine and I have a browser for visiting the STO and other game websites already. But the rest seems more tinfoil territory or simply false assumptions at work.
Security and privacy are both concerns as well. You see that hyperlink above? You can follow those in Arc as well as in your standard browser... has Arc added the convenient little banner down there that displays the target, and do you have access to your various security plugins within the overlay's web browser? Do my privacy settings from my current web browser apply to the Arc web browser (not the Arc privacy settings, but the privacy settings that apply when visiting other sites)
copied this from another user. (above) read alot of posts and the devs are being very selective on answering, they clearly do not seem to want to see 98% do not want Arc. Cryptic, please just actully listen to what people are saying, What good is arc if people leave the game over it.
Sadly I will not get an answer, they are full blown on forcing Arc and will not accept that we do not want it, maybe someday, just maybe they may listen!
If they do and post something about the number of downloads, they better be ready to report how many uninstalls were recorded since they have a survey at the end asking why it's being uninstalled. So that "we have no numbers" is BS.
You can tell Steam where to install. It's just not that easily found.
Not a technical issue, per se, but I have to tell you that the arcgames.com News pages being shoe-horned into my Arc client drives me crazy.
It's too cluttered and too busy, and it's all crammed into a narrow area that the content wasn't designed to live in. If you have to use tiled content in there, at least make it all one vertical column.
If you can do something to fix this, I'd deeply appreciate it.
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I suspect that they want to eventually add functionality that makes it useful. For now, it's just a glorified launcher with limited webbrowsing.
I could imagine that Arc in the future could be an interface to game elements that don't require you to actively log into a specific game. Say, facilitate trade, visit certain status information (how are the STO PvP Queues today?), maybe interfaces for parts of the game (say, STO DOFFs).
Alternatively, it could be that they really want to make it a second Steam, and add a lot of new games to Arc that you can acquire via the interface. Maybe not just games made by Perfect World itself.
Immediate benefits for them:
o Making the other PWE games more visible to players of specific games. they might hope to get some STO fans to play PW or some PW fans to play Champions or whatever.
o A unified launcher architecture could make development of future games easier. Deployment can be a surprisingly big topic for any type of software - at the point where you want to do more than xcopy deployment, you can spend a lot of effort just creating your deployment system. And particularly F2P titles and MMOs require a lot of this, since you have to consider downloading regular patches and content updates. (Remember when Cryptic couldn't do in-game patching?)
I have removed Arc from my notebook and installed STO through the old installer without Arc. I find playing over wireless a smoother experience once again. Once Arc becomes mandatory, I will be saying goodbye to STO.
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I can see Arc having one very clear use to me. I buy Zen and it sits in an Arc Bank and gets used in which ever game of theirs I might choose to play. Instead of being locked to a specific title.
But the one concern I have for future functionality is that a launcher built today may not support what they want to do in two months and they need to start all over again with the beta process, where individual game launchers don't have this issue.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
1. I still have to hit engage in the old launcher after I click play in Arc.
2. The Arc client doesn't automatically close after I exit STO.
3. The Arc client will not exit after I click close. It just minimizes down to my hidden icon group on my task bar. When I say close, I don't mean minimize.
4. It won't let me buy Zen through Google Wallet. A blank pop-up opened instead of my log in for wallet. I had to go back to the STO Perfect World site to purchase Zen.
I know there hasn't been a lot of communication on the spyware issue, so I'm going to give you a brief explanation on what we can actually track. In short, we don't track anything you don't want us to, as we have the opt-in feature for if you choose to let us. All this feature allows us to do is track your system information that can be easily found when you navigate to "Help">"System Information" in Arc. We do this as it helps us find any potential software and hardware issues, which in turn allows us to better optimize Arc for as many configurations as possible. Keep in mind though, that this is all through the opt-in system. If you do not opt-in, we will not be able to track your system information.
I hope that clears things up, and if there's anything else please let me know.
resource overhead is still way high for the client, especially considering the distinct lack of functionality. Couple that with ancillary processes like the ArcWebOS process and you are using somewhere in the range of a quarter of a gig 250Mb of memory for the client. That is pretty steep and REALLY needs to come down, alot.
Thank you for clearing that up.
However as a freindly suggestion, that EULA is far to broad in what you monitor. It gives entirely the wrong idea. Especially as the bit about monitoring hardware is just after the bit I quoted, so it implies that you will be using it to spy.
Maybe change the EULA to reflect that. As I said at current its far to broad, and I'll not be using it under that EULA.