becus i liek a challenge. ill tell you every secret and every trick if u step ur game up and die with honor, instead of accuse of hax. not u, the "general noob" in this game im referring to.
i might be one of the very few mavericks left in this game, even then, after a time my cutting edge tech becomes premade standard fare. it wasnt cheap, easy, or without a grind. But someone has to try out everythign in the game, see what works, and report back to people who take winning "too seriously" to try something untested.
as they add more consoles, rep specials and other items.. there will continue to be more options come into viability
fear not
I always love seeing what you come up with after every nerf, mini. I see you as the "mad-scientist" type of guy. Cackling away as others call you insane lol. Fun fight last night btw
One may not need the best DHC, the best shield, the best consoles etc., but one certainly needs the necessary ship (and many interesting boff layouts are only available on certain lockbox ships), the necessary doffs (and these can be expensive, e.g. pattern doffs) and potentially some expensive lockbox consoles (leech comes to mind if one is a fed). Also one cannot really tell how good a build is if the character flying it does not have sufficient reputation passives, and that requires quite a bit of time if one wants to test ideas with weird career/faction combinations.
Then you also have to consider weapon types... you want to test an elachi setups... how about voth... perhaps you would like to test a Torp boat built around romulan plasma... or omega. Then there are the Rep consoles. They are not free. Rom Plasma ? The Rep Tetryon Weapons... how about the new Rep Voth weapons? Adapted Maco/KHG... Regular Maco/KGH... how about a MK XII Jem set... or Lobi weapon sets. Embassy consoles, Spire consoles... mine consoles... Advanced/Elite Shields Deflector engines. Of course all the stuff Hilbert just mentioned as well... doffs ships traits as well even.
Testing combos of any of these is not free... far from it. In some cases it will involve finishing reps... grinding 500 marks... dropping massive amounts of EC or $ to earn lobi... grinding out a bunch of Dilithium ect ect.
"It's a free society. Except there ain't nothing free, because there's no guarantees. You know? You're on your own. That's the law of the jungle."
Xmas trivia Name that movie quote. lol
Then you also have to consider weapon types... you want to test an elachi setups... how about voth... perhaps you would like to test a Torp boat built around romulan plasma... or omega. Then there are the Rep consoles. They are not free. Rom Plasma ? The Rep Tetryon Weapons... how about the new Rep Voth weapons? Adapted Maco/KHG... Regular Maco/KGH... how about a MK XII Jem set... or Lobi weapon sets. Embassy consoles, Spire consoles... mine consoles... Advanced/Elite Shields Deflector engines. Of course all the stuff Hilbert just mentioned as well... doffs ships traits as well even.
Testing combos of any of these is not free... far from it. In some cases it will involve finishing reps... grinding 500 marks... dropping massive amounts of EC or $ to earn lobi... grinding out a bunch of Dilithium ect ect.
"It's a free society. Except there ain't nothing free, because there's no guarantees. You know? You're on your own. That's the law of the jungle."
Xmas trivia Name that movie quote. lol
George of the Jungle?
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
lol yeah the ED-209 was really scary first time I saw it...course so was he without all the armour. Totally shouldn't have been watching that film at however young I was.
I would say that prior to the addition of traits the cookie cutter builds ruled the game. The trait system combined with the skill tree has created the ability.. imo to create those unique builds. Also one needs to keep a eye on craptic's little stealth changes to the skill tree.... at one time miracle worker was effected by 5 skills now it seems only 2 are required to max its effect. This is only one of several little changes that I have become aware of in the past 3 or 4 months. I would hazard a guess as to why this changes have never seen the light of official game changes/updates is so they do not have to hand out respec tokens. I wished they would go back to the system where you could (used to be starfleet merits) expertise to purchase respec tokens. It seemed a much better system where as it rewarded the players that played regularly the ability to try new builds. I have been playing since closed beta and my first few toons have ran out of tokens long ago. Having to fork out $5 every time to change skill tree gets old quick and discourages people to experiment with new builds.
Ok so that?s not what was said exactly and I am not trying to start stuff but I can tell you this. Most people pug and an Engineer in an Escort does work good as a pug but not as good as a Tactical Escort. I sometime fly an Engineer Escort I am almost never top damage but I have really good healing and almost never die.
I think the problem with your post is that it is an oversimplification of what is being said.
Sure you can put an Eng in an Escort, and you can be a mediocre damage dealer. Great?
Being mediocre on purpose is not "originality", it's taking the easy route to survivability at the sacrifice of actually being optimally effective at what an Escort is supposed to do.
Players have the choice to be optimal or to be mediocre.
Neither of these concepts are mutually exclusive nor inclusive with "originality".
Players can play their Eng/Escorts, and when they come up against a competent opposing team they'll quickly realize they can ignore the Eng/Escort in favor of trying to control an actually dangerous damage dealer instead.
lol yeah the ED-209 was really scary first time I saw it...course so was he without all the armour. Totally shouldn't have been watching that film at however young I was.
I remember watching it when I was fairly young as well. The first one I watched way to young though was terminator... I was to young to watch a robot man pop his eyeball out.
You win by the way... who knows though Gary Oldman Micheal Keaton Samual J.... perhaps it will be fun for what it is. lol
Players have the choice to be optimal or to be mediocre.
With no intermediate steps in between, right? :rolleyes:
No. Just no. We need to ignore people who present these narrow-minded, false dichotomies. With practice, you can pull your weight flying an engscort in a PvP match. You are not automatically dooming your team to lose, or any other histrionic variation on that theme. Don't let the premade template minimaxxers tell you you're having fun "wrong."
There are a few people in these forums who need to realize that not everyone agrees with the "Fun is embracing the constraints necessary to eke out every last miniscule bit of DPS above all else, because otherwise your team might not win and it will be your fault" pitch. Your personal experience does not dictate everyone else's experience.
I think the problem with your post is that it is an oversimplification of what is being said.
Sure you can put an Eng in an Escort, and you can be a mediocre damage dealer. Great?
Being mediocre on purpose is not "originality", it's taking the easy route to survivability at the sacrifice of actually being optimally effective at what an Escort is supposed to do.
Players have the choice to be optimal or to be mediocre.
Neither of these concepts are mutually exclusive nor inclusive with "originality".
Players can play their Eng/Escorts, and when they come up against a competent opposing team they'll quickly realize they can ignore the Eng/Escort in favor of trying to control an actually dangerous damage dealer instead.
a few things there are builds that are between optimal and mediocre. plus I prefer my enemy to not shoot at me
also I think you missed my main point most helpful people around here will just try to push people into a optimal build, which have been posted many times. so why make a new post when someone can just look up old post to find optimal builds.
now I know a tac is MUCH better than an eng in an escort. I just don't feel people should be told to change toons if they want to fly an escort. just help them do better spike.
With no intermediate steps in between, right? :rolleyes:
No. Just no. We need to ignore people who present these narrow-minded, false dichotomies. With practice, you can pull your weight flying an engscort in a PvP match. You are not automatically dooming your team to lose, or any other histrionic variation on that theme. Don't let the premade template minimaxxers tell you you're having fun "wrong."
There are a few people in these forums who need to realize that not everyone agrees with the "Fun is embracing the constraints necessary to eke out every last miniscule bit of DPS above all else, because otherwise your team might not win and it will be your fault" pitch. Your personal experience does not dictate everyone else's experience.
You can have fun anyway you like... if you enjoy playing your sub optimal engi scort... go to it. No one is suggesting you should not.
We are talking about serious pvp though... pug away all you like with that.
You can have fun playing sports with low end junk equipment and even, play with sub optimal styles and have lots of FUN.
However if you are going to talk about any sport... you will see that if one person starts using something > then everyone else has to do the same. If a swimmer starts using a high tech swimsuit that kills resistance... everyone else will switch or they ban it. In hockey if one player starts using $800 carbon fiber sticks... of course everyone else that wants to play on that level has to do the same..... That isn't to say you can't swim at the local pool in your Bramuda shorts... or play street hockey with a good old wooden stick.
With no intermediate steps in between, right? :rolleyes:
No. Just no. We need to ignore people who present these narrow-minded, false dichotomies. With practice, you can pull your weight flying an engscort in a PvP match. You are not automatically dooming your team to lose, or any other histrionic variation on that theme. Don't let the premade template minimaxxers tell you you're having fun "wrong."
There are a few people in these forums who need to realize that not everyone agrees with the "Fun is embracing the constraints necessary to eke out every last miniscule bit of DPS above all else, because otherwise your team might not win and it will be your fault" pitch. Your personal experience does not dictate everyone else's experience.
"false dichotomies"? How so? What exactly being stated is "false"? You just don't seem to back up any statement with follow up remarks to substantiate what you call lies.
You still haven't answered this bit yet you keep calling people's statement as "false"
I condemned it based on hours of testing against and with some of the best players in the game.
Reading some of your posts since i got back, i just cant help but smile in a confused manner. I haven't seen a single valid argument in favour of eng escorts to convince me to start retesting and spending Zen/EC/Lobi to validate if i'm wrong and your right.
Some Key performance indicators for an escort in my opinion:
Killing capability - Can it kill consistently? (Obvious one and Cryptic designated role for escort)
Efficiency - Can it kill very quickly - Spike (Quicker the better)
Damage to kill ratio - How much damage is needed to achieve a kill? (Lower, the better)
Kill time between buff cycles - How quickly can you kill between buff cycles? (The more, the better)
Survivability - Can you survive long enough to get away or get help? (Has to be "Yes" as an answer)
I personally can only see 1 area and Engi escort would be capable of passing and that is definitely not enough to convince me personally to test anything.
Can you hand on heart answer positively to the above?
Going back to the title of the thread, your build is neither original nor optimal, but if your having fun in it, thats yours to have. No one is telling you to get out of it. they are advising you that in PvP it is very useless. I had to use that term because you simply cant acknowledge people informing you politely.
a few things there are builds that are between optimal and mediocre. plus I prefer my enemy to not shoot at me
also I think you missed my main point most helpful people around here will just try to push people into a optimal build, which have been posted many times. so why make a new post when someone can just look up old post to find optimal builds.
now I know a tac is MUCH better than an eng in an escort. I just don't feel people should be told to change toons if they want to fly an escort. just help them do better spike.
How can you help someone as an engineer in an escort if you know beyond a doubt the role they are trying to do with that combination can be done significantly better with another combination?
Also, there is a significant difference between "told" and "advised". Nobody can tell you to change in a forum, they can merely advise you on the fact.
I remember watching it when I was fairly young as well. The first one I watched way to young though was terminator... I was to young to watch a robot man pop his eyeball out.
You win by the way... who knows though Gary Oldman Micheal Keaton Samual J.... perhaps it will be fun for what it is. lol
Yeah saw that when I was too young too...and Alien/Aliens and predator. Still I was always more afraid of the sea devils from Dr Who, I blame the sounds. Maybe Robocop will be good, never know, some remakes do live up to the originals.
"false dichotomies"? How so? What exactly being stated is "false"?
I'm saying it is dishonest to portray the options as either "optimal" or "mediocre" with no points in between. It is "false" in that there are intermediate steps.
No one is telling you to get out of it. they are advising you that in PvP it is very useless.
Useless, as in of no value whatsoever? No, that's TRIBBLE. All a person would have to do is get one kill to prove that false, because then they would have been of some use. If your intended meaning is "Not as useful as it could be if you limited yourself to the absolute most optimized template," you need to say that.
How can you help someone as an engineer in an escort if you know beyond a doubt the role they are trying to do with that combination can be done significantly better with another combination?
I would consider the possibility that they have something other than "DPS weapon platform at all costs." If someone wants the maneuverability of an escort with the heals of an engineer, it is up to them to make it work.
Finally, acknowledge the fact that dying less is of value by itself. Three fewer kills can be balanced out by three fewer deaths.
Engiscorts are not best in neither dps nor heal their teammates. They cannot even tank as hard as engicruisers can, and engicruisers can at least be set up to throw extends, aux2sif, ET, etc. The only good thing they can do, is set up so that they can run away pretty quick if need be. If you find fun in this playstyle, go for it. But do not even try to pretend that you are not gimmicking your entire team at the cost of getting yourself a nice front row spectator's seat to the massacre. If you wanna play engiscort, kerrat and CnH are your haven. Arena, not so much.
. If you find fun in this playstyle, go for it. But do not even try to pretend that you are not gimmicking your entire team at the cost of getting yourself a nice front row spectator's seat to the massacre.
More narrow thinking. Don't project your limitations on everyone else, and do not presume to dictate where I am worthy of playing.
Finally, acknowledge the fact that dying less is of value by itself. Three fewer kills can be balanced out by three fewer deaths.
If, arena matches were every man for himself, or the last man standing style of fight, then maybe your philosophy would hold. But it is not. An arena is a 5v5 style fight in STO where the first to 15 kills win. If you cannot dps and neither can you help your teammates in any other way, and your whole philosophy of fighting is to not die, your teammates be damned, then you have effectively relegated your team to fight a 4v5 uphill battle against the opposing team.
PS: Lappy caught BSoD fever between posts #144 and #146
I'm saying it is dishonest to portray the options as either "optimal" or "mediocre" with no points in between. It is "false" in that there are intermediate steps.
The complete "truth of an engi escort in the current game is being "mediocre" at best so the spectrum is from "useless" to "mediocre". Optimal doesn't even come into the the equation of an engi escort.
Useless, as in of no value whatsoever? No, that's TRIBBLE. All a person would have to do is get one kill to prove that false, because then they would have been of some use. If your intended meaning is "Not as useful as it could be if you limited yourself to the absolute most optimized template," you need to say that.
Killing an absolute novice in the queues doesn't prove anything as well so the "one kill" comment is mute.
I would consider the possibility that they have something other than "DPS weapon platform at all costs." If someone wants the maneuverability of an escort with the heals of an engineer, it is up to them to make it work.
Something? being a zombie escort with no fangs is something. Grats on that.
Finally, acknowledge the fact that dying less is of value by itself. Three fewer kills can be balanced out by three fewer deaths.
This can be achieved by a healer healing his team as well or a tactical escort killing his enemies quicker so again bit of a mute point.
Enjoy being mediocre at best buddy if that is what you want.
Back to the lack of a meaningful way to measure dps that isn't a number-padding epeen measuring session, and glossing over the fact that dps does not translate directly into kills.
Back to the lack of a meaningful way to measure dps that isn't a number-padding epeen measuring session, and glossing over the fact that dps does not translate directly into kills.
It's like everything you say goes right over this guys head
Back to the lack of a meaningful way to measure dps that isn't a number-padding epeen measuring session, and glossing over the fact that dps does not translate directly into kills.
That's like saying gun shot wounds don't contribute to death by gun shot.
It's like everything you say goes right over this guys head
I understand the objective technical reasons, but what I don't accept is the leap from "Your damage is not optimal in an engscort" to "you are completely useless and have doomed your team to failure." That's a bunch of juvenile histrionics, and I've played enough Arena and Capture to know that it can't always be described in such rigid absolutes. If the whole match comes down to a few thousand DPS from one player, the chances are very good that your teams weaknesses go WAY beyond some engineer daring to defy the role you would assign them.
That's like saying gun shot wounds don't contribute to death by gun shot.
No, "dps above all else" is like saying gunshot wounds are more important than gunshot deaths.
Is it possible to rack up a butt ton of DPS points while achieving few or no kills? Yes. Is it possible to have the most kills without dealing the most damage? Yes.
No, "dps above all else" is like saying gunshot wounds are more important than gunshot deaths.
Is it possible to rack up a butt ton of DPS points while achieving few or no kills? Yes. Is it possible to have the most kills without dealing the most damage? Yes.
I don't think you understand the term DPS... or you have forgotten.
Damage Per Second.
Yes the higher this number is the higher your kill number will be >.<
The point of the thread... is power creep has effected both sides of the coin... DPS potential and HPS potential... making for a situation where you can't afford to dial either back and remain all that effective. (you can deny all you want but its the hard truth)
If you are racking up massive Damage numbers on the score board... your DPS number is in fact likely mediocre. Not enough to score kills... however still high enough to register on the board.
I have won matches with less then 400k in dmg on the board with pretty much all 15 kills... that is because my Spike (Super high DPS number) was at a point where people didn't heal through it. They got hit and where dead before they could force me to pull my tail for 20min.
Granted in the current meta which is what the thread is about... that happens LESS and LESS because there are so any power creeped ways to save yourself from death that stuff gets dragged out regardelss... which is what we are talking about... I can't dial down my DPS unless I want to drag the match out... and if you want to survive me DPS "Spike" then you better not dial down on the core defense skills.
Yes the higher this number is the higher your kill number will be
No. No, no, NO.
Not when some clown can spam FAW the whole time, kill nothing and still paste an insanely high DPS score from some parser into the chat window afterwards. It can't just be damage/time if you expect it to be meaningful.
Maybe, maybe if the rating is confined to a burst over a short interval, you can make the claim that it translates closely to kills.
Not when some clown can spam FAW the whole time, kill nothing and still paste an insanely high DPS score from some parser into the chat window afterwards. It can't just be damage/time if you expect it to be meaningful.
Maybe, maybe if the rating is confined to a burst over a short interval, you can make the claim that it translates closely to kills.
Again you are miss understanding numbers. (as is the faw noob)
DPS in general applies to ONE target.... don't blame the failing of his parser and failing of his little brain to understand what it is telling him to mean anything. lol
Damage Per Second... Yes if you can ramp that up to a point on ONE target where it outstrips there Healing Per Second (HPS) number then you WILL kill them.
Some goof that syas I am doing 30k DPS.... with a faw boat isn't understanding what the numbers are telling him... now we can debate how stupid it is of cryptic to give people a spam skill that splits there DPS into 2... allowing them to put 15k dps on 2 targets at once.
The point of the thread is basicly boiling down to the META and how it effects both DPS and HPS... and if you want to get deeper you can look at yes teams of faw boats ... that are for sure putting out a very high PIDPS numbers. (Personal Incoming Damage Per Second)... You don't want this high (if your getting shot at that is)... but say 2 people are firing at you the cumulative fire power of both on YOU is your Pidps number... and you need to keep your HPS high enough to handle that incomming... or your on a timer to lower that number fore your HP pool goes to zero)
Faw is a broken game mechanic no doubt... but the issue goes deeper then broken skills that allow people to split there dps with no Diminishing returns on 4 or 5 targets.
It is as simple as REAL DPS vs REAL HPS... and right now they are both so high that you can't afford to not optimize either.
Comments
I always love seeing what you come up with after every nerf, mini. I see you as the "mad-scientist" type of guy. Cackling away as others call you insane lol. Fun fight last night btw
Then you also have to consider weapon types... you want to test an elachi setups... how about voth... perhaps you would like to test a Torp boat built around romulan plasma... or omega. Then there are the Rep consoles. They are not free. Rom Plasma ? The Rep Tetryon Weapons... how about the new Rep Voth weapons? Adapted Maco/KHG... Regular Maco/KGH... how about a MK XII Jem set... or Lobi weapon sets. Embassy consoles, Spire consoles... mine consoles... Advanced/Elite Shields Deflector engines. Of course all the stuff Hilbert just mentioned as well... doffs ships traits as well even.
Testing combos of any of these is not free... far from it. In some cases it will involve finishing reps... grinding 500 marks... dropping massive amounts of EC or $ to earn lobi... grinding out a bunch of Dilithium ect ect.
"It's a free society. Except there ain't nothing free, because there's no guarantees. You know? You're on your own. That's the law of the jungle."
Xmas trivia Name that movie quote. lol
George of the Jungle?
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
That would be incorrect. One hint... there is a remake hitting soon, that in no way can be better then the first one.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I think the problem with your post is that it is an oversimplification of what is being said.
Sure you can put an Eng in an Escort, and you can be a mediocre damage dealer. Great?
Being mediocre on purpose is not "originality", it's taking the easy route to survivability at the sacrifice of actually being optimally effective at what an Escort is supposed to do.
Players have the choice to be optimal or to be mediocre.
Neither of these concepts are mutually exclusive nor inclusive with "originality".
Players can play their Eng/Escorts, and when they come up against a competent opposing team they'll quickly realize they can ignore the Eng/Escort in favor of trying to control an actually dangerous damage dealer instead.
I remember watching it when I was fairly young as well. The first one I watched way to young though was terminator... I was to young to watch a robot man pop his eyeball out.
You win by the way... who knows though Gary Oldman Micheal Keaton Samual J.... perhaps it will be fun for what it is. lol
With no intermediate steps in between, right? :rolleyes:
No. Just no. We need to ignore people who present these narrow-minded, false dichotomies. With practice, you can pull your weight flying an engscort in a PvP match. You are not automatically dooming your team to lose, or any other histrionic variation on that theme. Don't let the premade template minimaxxers tell you you're having fun "wrong."
There are a few people in these forums who need to realize that not everyone agrees with the "Fun is embracing the constraints necessary to eke out every last miniscule bit of DPS above all else, because otherwise your team might not win and it will be your fault" pitch. Your personal experience does not dictate everyone else's experience.
a few things there are builds that are between optimal and mediocre. plus I prefer my enemy to not shoot at me
also I think you missed my main point most helpful people around here will just try to push people into a optimal build, which have been posted many times. so why make a new post when someone can just look up old post to find optimal builds.
now I know a tac is MUCH better than an eng in an escort. I just don't feel people should be told to change toons if they want to fly an escort. just help them do better spike.
You can have fun anyway you like... if you enjoy playing your sub optimal engi scort... go to it. No one is suggesting you should not.
We are talking about serious pvp though... pug away all you like with that.
You can have fun playing sports with low end junk equipment and even, play with sub optimal styles and have lots of FUN.
However if you are going to talk about any sport... you will see that if one person starts using something > then everyone else has to do the same. If a swimmer starts using a high tech swimsuit that kills resistance... everyone else will switch or they ban it. In hockey if one player starts using $800 carbon fiber sticks... of course everyone else that wants to play on that level has to do the same..... That isn't to say you can't swim at the local pool in your Bramuda shorts... or play street hockey with a good old wooden stick.
"false dichotomies"? How so? What exactly being stated is "false"? You just don't seem to back up any statement with follow up remarks to substantiate what you call lies.
You still haven't answered this bit yet you keep calling people's statement as "false"
Going back to the title of the thread, your build is neither original nor optimal, but if your having fun in it, thats yours to have. No one is telling you to get out of it. they are advising you that in PvP it is very useless. I had to use that term because you simply cant acknowledge people informing you politely.
How can you help someone as an engineer in an escort if you know beyond a doubt the role they are trying to do with that combination can be done significantly better with another combination?
Also, there is a significant difference between "told" and "advised". Nobody can tell you to change in a forum, they can merely advise you on the fact.
Yeah saw that when I was too young too...and Alien/Aliens and predator. Still I was always more afraid of the sea devils from Dr Who, I blame the sounds. Maybe Robocop will be good, never know, some remakes do live up to the originals.
*chomp, chomp, chomp*
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I'm saying it is dishonest to portray the options as either "optimal" or "mediocre" with no points in between. It is "false" in that there are intermediate steps.
Useless, as in of no value whatsoever? No, that's TRIBBLE. All a person would have to do is get one kill to prove that false, because then they would have been of some use. If your intended meaning is "Not as useful as it could be if you limited yourself to the absolute most optimized template," you need to say that.
I would consider the possibility that they have something other than "DPS weapon platform at all costs." If someone wants the maneuverability of an escort with the heals of an engineer, it is up to them to make it work.
Finally, acknowledge the fact that dying less is of value by itself. Three fewer kills can be balanced out by three fewer deaths.
Elite Defense Stovokor
More narrow thinking. Don't project your limitations on everyone else, and do not presume to dictate where I am worthy of playing.
It's like kettle calling silverware black
Elite Defense Stovokor
I know right?
If, arena matches were every man for himself, or the last man standing style of fight, then maybe your philosophy would hold. But it is not. An arena is a 5v5 style fight in STO where the first to 15 kills win. If you cannot dps and neither can you help your teammates in any other way, and your whole philosophy of fighting is to not die, your teammates be damned, then you have effectively relegated your team to fight a 4v5 uphill battle against the opposing team.
PS: Lappy caught BSoD fever between posts #144 and #146
Elite Defense Stovokor
Well I think this belongs with this quote.
Warning, link contains strong language, weird humour and other controversial things.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Enjoy being mediocre at best buddy if that is what you want.
Back to the lack of a meaningful way to measure dps that isn't a number-padding epeen measuring session, and glossing over the fact that dps does not translate directly into kills.
It's like everything you say goes right over this guys head
Elite Defense Stovokor
That's like saying gun shot wounds don't contribute to death by gun shot.
I understand the objective technical reasons, but what I don't accept is the leap from "Your damage is not optimal in an engscort" to "you are completely useless and have doomed your team to failure." That's a bunch of juvenile histrionics, and I've played enough Arena and Capture to know that it can't always be described in such rigid absolutes. If the whole match comes down to a few thousand DPS from one player, the chances are very good that your teams weaknesses go WAY beyond some engineer daring to defy the role you would assign them.
No, "dps above all else" is like saying gunshot wounds are more important than gunshot deaths.
Is it possible to rack up a butt ton of DPS points while achieving few or no kills? Yes. Is it possible to have the most kills without dealing the most damage? Yes.
I don't think you understand the term DPS... or you have forgotten.
Damage Per Second.
Yes the higher this number is the higher your kill number will be >.<
The point of the thread... is power creep has effected both sides of the coin... DPS potential and HPS potential... making for a situation where you can't afford to dial either back and remain all that effective. (you can deny all you want but its the hard truth)
If you are racking up massive Damage numbers on the score board... your DPS number is in fact likely mediocre. Not enough to score kills... however still high enough to register on the board.
I have won matches with less then 400k in dmg on the board with pretty much all 15 kills... that is because my Spike (Super high DPS number) was at a point where people didn't heal through it. They got hit and where dead before they could force me to pull my tail for 20min.
Granted in the current meta which is what the thread is about... that happens LESS and LESS because there are so any power creeped ways to save yourself from death that stuff gets dragged out regardelss... which is what we are talking about... I can't dial down my DPS unless I want to drag the match out... and if you want to survive me DPS "Spike" then you better not dial down on the core defense skills.
No. No, no, NO.
Not when some clown can spam FAW the whole time, kill nothing and still paste an insanely high DPS score from some parser into the chat window afterwards. It can't just be damage/time if you expect it to be meaningful.
Maybe, maybe if the rating is confined to a burst over a short interval, you can make the claim that it translates closely to kills.
Again you are miss understanding numbers. (as is the faw noob)
DPS in general applies to ONE target.... don't blame the failing of his parser and failing of his little brain to understand what it is telling him to mean anything. lol
Damage Per Second... Yes if you can ramp that up to a point on ONE target where it outstrips there Healing Per Second (HPS) number then you WILL kill them.
Some goof that syas I am doing 30k DPS.... with a faw boat isn't understanding what the numbers are telling him... now we can debate how stupid it is of cryptic to give people a spam skill that splits there DPS into 2... allowing them to put 15k dps on 2 targets at once.
The point of the thread is basicly boiling down to the META and how it effects both DPS and HPS... and if you want to get deeper you can look at yes teams of faw boats ... that are for sure putting out a very high PIDPS numbers. (Personal Incoming Damage Per Second)... You don't want this high (if your getting shot at that is)... but say 2 people are firing at you the cumulative fire power of both on YOU is your Pidps number... and you need to keep your HPS high enough to handle that incomming... or your on a timer to lower that number fore your HP pool goes to zero)
Faw is a broken game mechanic no doubt... but the issue goes deeper then broken skills that allow people to split there dps with no Diminishing returns on 4 or 5 targets.
It is as simple as REAL DPS vs REAL HPS... and right now they are both so high that you can't afford to not optimize either.