And if the queue lets him join a STF in a Tier 1 ship, he has every right to be there and you have no business wasting some poor GM's time by reporting him.
And that certainly can be a fix. If queue can filter a player as to shuttle or ship, then there has to be a way to encode it into an STF queue that only players in a T5 ship can queue. If they put that on there, then there would not need to even be a level requirement.
Consoles
Engineering: Fleet Neutronium MK XII [+HullHP]
Science: Plasmonic Leech, Field Generator Mk XII
Tactical: Antiproton Mag Regulator MK XII
Bridge Officers skills remain the same.
Changed the Fleet RCS with the Neutronium because I needed a little more resistance. I did try the Monotanium because torps were really hurting, but my other resistances suffered so I thought this was a nice balance. It's very challenging working with so few console slots. I went with +HullHp because I only have 11k hull! The console bumped me up to 12k lol.
I did another ISE run and my dps went up slightly. As you can see it was a average group so they are not inflating my damage numbers any.
Pug1 7.7k
Pug2 5k
Pug3 4k
Pug4 2.1k
Me in the Oberth 3.4k
I hope some others try this and post their builds. This is really a lot of fun. I actually haven't had this much fun in a long time.
And that certainly can be a fix. If queue can filter a player as to shuttle or ship, then there has to be a way to encode it into an STF queue that only players in a T5 ship can queue. If they put that on there, then there would not need to even be a level requirement.
It's only a fix if there was a problem to be fixed and there quite plainly isn't one.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
I agree with peetapipmac. There isn't any trolling being done here, and the guy is having fun, and getting things done, isn't that what matters?
Makes me wish I still had my T2 Connie-Refit, but I don't have the gear to give it yet. Jeez, I hate being poor.
Weyland-Yutani Joint Space Venture - Always open to new members!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
I agree with peetapipmac. There isn't any trolling being done here, and the guy is having fun, and getting things done, isn't that what matters?
Makes me wish I still had my T2 Connie-Refit, but I don't have the gear to give it yet. Jeez, I hate being poor.
Well then forgive me if I choose to take the leaver penalty and just warp out as soon as I see a T1 ship in an STF. Call if rage quitting if you want, I don't. You choose to do that and it is okay, then it would be perfectly acceptable for me to respond in kind.
Well then forgive me if I choose to take the leaver penalty and just warp out as soon as I see a T1 ship in an STF. Call if rage quitting if you want, I don't. You choose to do that and it is okay, then it would be perfectly acceptable for me to respond in kind.
Yes I agree.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Well then forgive me if I choose to take the leaver penalty and just warp out as soon as I see a T1 ship in an STF. Call if rage quitting if you want, I don't. You choose to do that and it is okay, then it would be perfectly acceptable for me to respond in kind.
I just wanted to point out that all the stfs I participated in using the oberth were successful, optional and all. I also never had the lowest dps. Also, oddly enough no one complained and I even had a heal tossed my way when the Borg tactical cube decided I was a threat.
So I have the Rainbow Warrior Oberth guy on my friends list now and we did the Crystal Entity Elite ( at my urging, he didnt want to do the elite so as not to anger anyone but I insisted).
All I will say is this...this guy can fly that frakkin ship like Michael Schumacher in an F1 car. I didnt even have to heal him as he was all over the map blasting away at everything....putting out insane damage for an Oberth even with elite and fleet gear.
No one in the pug hated on him, as a matter of fact one person said they were going to buy an Oberth now because of what they saw.
So I have the Rainbow Warrior Oberth guy on my friends list now and we did the Crystal Entity Elite ( at my urging, he didnt want to do the elite so as not to anger anyone but I insisted).
All I will say is this...this guy can fly that frakkin ship like Michael Schumacher in an F1 car. I didnt even have to heal him as he was all over the map blasting away at everything....putting out insane damage for an Oberth even with elite and fleet gear.
No one in the pug hated on him, as a matter of fact one person said they were going to buy an Oberth now because of what they saw.
Good lord what if this becomes a trend!
I wonder where this "fear" of angering people comes from?
Personaly i would NOT be happy to see the mentioned ship in a PUG,
but if he plays in a normal manner (participating instead of afking)
and has a repaired ship (no injuries) why should i care?
And i bet most people will tell you the same.
If someone tries something, no matter how strange or innefective it seems,
its okay, even if i dislike it, the participation is, what matters in the end.
If he pulls his own weight, and thats even in an "skittle" or "rainbow" boat possible,
i wont say a word.
I only get "angry" if people on purpose sabotage the Group by AFKing for prolonged
periods without saying a word, or if they join with allready heavily injured ships (more then 4 injuries)
and even then, i ask once about the matter, in a neutral tone, and if no answer is given, i simply report for griefplay.
But i have yet to see (and i played a few hundreds of ESTFs by now) anybody getting angry, or complaining, about someone doing something unusual.
So far the "worst" thing was a refference to an Obelisk as "noobelisk" because the player using it, was... far below every standard you need to play Elite modes...
just my feelings on the matter... but this guy obviously knows the ropes, is a darn good player, and is apparently holding his own. I would MUCH MUCH prefer having a player like that as a teammate in an STF PUG than someone who has no idea how to even approach the mission, and fails it by doing something stupid that could easily be avoided by asking a question or spending 20 seconds on a wiki.
Give me the BMF in the Oberth over the wannabe cowboy who goes right in ISE attacking generators and ignoring the cube ANY day of the week.
If someone tries something, no matter how strange or innefective it seems,
its okay, even if i dislike it, the participation is, what matters in the end.
If he pulls his own weight, and thats even in an "skittle" or "rainbow" boat possible,
i wont say a word.
I only get "angry" if people on purpose sabotage the Group by AFKing for prolonged
periods without saying a word, or if they join with allready heavily injured ships (more then 4 injuries)
and even then, i ask once about the matter, in a neutral tone, and if no answer is given, i simply report for griefplay.
But i have yet to see (and i played a few hundreds of ESTFs by now) anybody getting angry, or complaining, about someone doing something unusual.
So far the "worst" thing was a refference to an Obelisk as "noobelisk" because the player using it, was... far below every standard you need to play Elite modes...
just my feelings on the matter... but this guy obviously knows the ropes, is a darn good player, and is apparently holding his own. I would MUCH MUCH prefer having a player like that as a teammate in an STF PUG than someone who has no idea how to even approach the mission, and fails it by doing something stupid that could easily be avoided by asking a question or spending 20 seconds on a wiki.
Give me the BMF in the Oberth over the wannabe cowboy who goes right in ISE attacking generators and ignoring the cube ANY day of the week.
The new challenge for those bored with painfully easy STFs.
I also want to do this now.
I mean hating one someone, for having a T1 ship is just ridiculous, especially if they are above the last person DPS and damage wise.
I mean i accidentaly jumped into an ESTF with my test build(test builds consist of all Mk X common gear for accurate testing) And i still out DPS and out Damaged every other player in my PUG, (havent posted photos anywhere yet to link).
So as shown by previous posters it can be done, if you are mad about someone bringing a ship in then thats your fault, we had a shuttle come in with us (before that was fixed and it was an accident) and he did not do too bad.
If i had a Tuffli i would totally roll into an ESTF in it, hardcore battle tuffli........."We are Strong now...":D
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This Oberth player actually has the right idea in my opinin. Recently, nine out of ten STF's I take in are over before my little sci ship can do anything particularly useful. The number of MkXII everything Scimitars/Avengers and now Mogh class ships, with Tac Captains, that lay waste to the Borg cubes within a four second timeframe has become all too commonplace.
Might try something similar myself to be honest - as I've said MANY times before and will say many times again, my drop-dead favorite ship in STO, and in Trek in general, is the Rhode Island variant of the Nova class class and I use the Fleet Version more than anything else. I may however pull my old Tier 2.5 version out of mothballs and kit her out with as much as I can off the Fleet version.
I mean, if everything is/was pretty much dead before I can/could do anything in my Fleet Nova, what's the harm?
Never forget those truly wonderful Tac captains in Avengers that literally have no idea what they are doing. Those are the true treasures 1500 DPS bah i can do better in a shuttle :rolleyes:
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wow, that is one of the most insane things i've read on this forum, I've got to give credit where credit is due here, nice work on a Tier 1 Oberth, just how do you cope without your higher rank boff abilities?
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I love to see stuff like this! Props to the Oberth pilot.
I does happen quite a bit. Every so often you meet a player who has thrown the rulebook out of the window and plays how they want, it is refreshing to see.
There needs to be a cross faction chat channel for such builds and players willing to fly with them. Any ship, any setup and just have a laugh. I would join it in a heartbeat!
Having read through this thread I am reminded of an old air force saying.
"A good pilot in a bad plane is worth 5 bad pilots in a good plane."
I have been in enough STF's where the noob play killed the STF more than the type of loadout or the level of ship. If someone can rock a lower tier ship let them. In fleet actions it doesn't matter at all really and elite STF as long as the player knows what to do and what is limitations are and how to use his ship be is worth more than a lot of other players who just want the STF over as fast as possible to get their marks and leave.
This Oberth player actually has the right idea in my opinin. Recently, nine out of ten STF's I take in are over before my little sci ship can do anything particularly useful. The number of MkXII everything Scimitars/Avengers and now Mogh class ships, with Tac Captains, that lay waste to the Borg cubes within a four second timeframe has become all too commonplace.
Might try something similar myself to be honest - as I've said MANY times before and will say many times again, my drop-dead favorite ship in STO, and in Trek in general, is the Rhode Island variant of the Nova class class and I use the Fleet Version more than anything else. I may however pull my old Tier 2.5 version out of mothballs and kit her out with as much as I can off the Fleet version.
I mean, if everything is/was pretty much dead before I can/could do anything in my Fleet Nova, what's the harm?
Now you are exagerating, i had a KSE yesterday which took ONE hour for the gates...
Donatra then, was... impossible to kill...
i did quit 20 mins after the donatra fight did start in utter disgust
So I have the Rainbow Warrior Oberth guy on my friends list now and we did the Crystal Entity Elite ( at my urging, he didnt want to do the elite so as not to anger anyone but I insisted).
All I will say is this...this guy can fly that frakkin ship like Michael Schumacher in an F1 car. I didnt even have to heal him as he was all over the map blasting away at everything....putting out insane damage for an Oberth even with elite and fleet gear.
No one in the pug hated on him, as a matter of fact one person said they were going to buy an Oberth now because of what they saw.
Good lord what if this becomes a trend!
Admittedly I'm now eyeing my T2 Franken-Connie rotting in mothballs. I'm afraid I'm too pathetic to pull off a T1, but now I'm wondering...
I am glad the conversation seems to be taking a turn for the better.
Please remember that everybody doesn't play this game the same way and for the same reasons. You are each entitled to your own opinions, but personal attacks on other forum users are not tolerated.
Accusing people of trolling, either in the game or in the forums, is not up to you. If you believe someone is trolling, please report the post and a moderator will investigate and take any appropriate action.
Calling other people trolls, or worse, is itself a violation of forum rules and will only get you moderated.
Again, thanks to the people who are making a constructive and civil contribution to this thread. It is appreciated.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
wow, that is one of the most insane things i've read on this forum, I've got to give credit where credit is due here, nice work on a Tier 1 Oberth, just how do you cope without your higher rank boff abilities?
I can't speak for the original Oberth pilot, but I know for me positional awareness was critical. You need to stay on the inside edge of combat and not let yourself get outflanked. Also, I would generally let another ship take aggro on dangerous targets (like a borg cube) first and hope they kept it. I actually didn't have all that much trouble keeping my shields up (tactical team 1 and two conn duty officers to reduce the cool down kept my facing up rather well) it was the kinetic damage from torpedoes and plasma burn that would eat away at my 12k hull hit points that was really dangerous. With only hazard emitters for a hull heal it was tricky keeping my hull up when I came under attack.
What I really enjoyed about the experience was how dangerous the borg became. It felt very much like being at the battle of wolf 359. Like my ship could be destroyed at any moment.
I am the guy with the Oberth that is being discussed in this thread. I appreciate all the positive feedback and comments...and to the naysayers I say LICK THE FUNGUS FROM MY FEET YOU PLEBIAN PUDDINGHEADS!!!!!!
I created the Rainbow Warior for a reason already mentioned in this thread: the STFs have become to easy.
I mean, even with a Pug 9 times out of ten the Borg cubes get blown up before I can even turn on the engines of my Fleet Nebula....and then its just a cake walk. I wanted a sense of danger, a sense of foreboding, a sense of REAL trepidation.
I wanted to feel what a REAL Starfleet Captain might feel when faced with the Borg.
And that is when I came up with the idea of the Rainbow Warrior.
When I use her in pugs I feel that sense of thrill, of fear of danger, because one or two hits can blow her to pieces. It FORCES you to be a better captain, it MAKES you be a better player because unlike those "dash in kill get marks reque" types you actually need to THINK in a T1 ship.
People who slam it or threaten to report me are only admitting that they could never pull off what I or anyone else who regularly does this can do. Its easy to show up in an Avenger and just blast everything to pieces, any unskilled person can do that.
I live on the knife edge of death when I take the Rainbow Warrior into an STF. I am more alive than ANY of you when I do so (from a game point of view anyway) because I am so near death.
I spit in the Borg's face in my Oberth. I kick them in their assimilated gonads. I laugh at them and say "I am in a T1 Oberth and I shall NOT be assimilated! COME AT ME BRO!!!"
I am the guy with the Oberth that is being discussed in this thread. I appreciate all the positive feedback and comments...and to the naysayers I say LICK THE FUNGUS FROM MY FEET YOU PLEBIAN PUDDINGHEADS!!!!!!
I created the Rainbow Warior for a reason already mentioned in this thread: the STFs have become to easy.
I mean, even with a Pug 9 times out of ten the Borg cubes get blown up before I can even turn on the engines of my Fleet Nebula....and then its just a cake walk. I wanted a sense of danger, a sense of foreboding, a sense of REAL trepidation.
I wanted to feel what a REAL Starfleet Captain might feel when faced with the Borg.
And that is when I came up with the idea of the Rainbow Warrior.
When I use her in pugs I feel that sense of thrill, of fear of danger, because one or two hits can blow her to pieces. It FORCES you to be a better captain, it MAKES you be a better player because unlike those "dash in kill get marks reque" types you actually need to THINK in a T1 ship.
People who slam it or threaten to report me are only admitting that they could never pull off what I or anyone else who regularly does this can do. Its easy to show up in an Avenger and just blast everything to pieces, any unskilled person can do that.
I live on the knife edge of death when I take the Rainbow Warrior into an STF. I am more alive than ANY of you when I do so (from a game point of view anyway) because I am so near death.
I spit in the Borg's face in my Oberth. I kick them in their assimilated gonads. I laugh at them and say "I am in a T1 Oberth and I shall NOT be assimilated! COME AT ME BRO!!!"
Thanks for doing this...I probably would have never bothered myself had I not seen this thread and gave it a try for myself. It is most definitely a lot of fun flying the Oberth! Can you give us a break down of your build? I'm curious to know what you're running.
Comments
And that certainly can be a fix. If queue can filter a player as to shuttle or ship, then there has to be a way to encode it into an STF queue that only players in a T5 ship can queue. If they put that on there, then there would not need to even be a level requirement.
Weapons
(Fore): 2xFleet Antiproton Beam Array [Acc]X2 [Dmg]x2
(Aft): Omni-Directional Antiproton Beam Array
Equipment
Deflector: Assimilated
Impulse Engines: Assimilated
Shields: Fleet Elite Resilient Shield [ResB]
Core: Obelisk Subspace Rift Core
Consoles
Engineering: Fleet Neutronium MK XII [+HullHP]
Science: Plasmonic Leech, Field Generator Mk XII
Tactical: Antiproton Mag Regulator MK XII
Bridge Officers skills remain the same.
Changed the Fleet RCS with the Neutronium because I needed a little more resistance. I did try the Monotanium because torps were really hurting, but my other resistances suffered so I thought this was a nice balance. It's very challenging working with so few console slots. I went with +HullHp because I only have 11k hull! The console bumped me up to 12k lol.
I did another ISE run and my dps went up slightly. As you can see it was a average group so they are not inflating my damage numbers any.
Pug1 7.7k
Pug2 5k
Pug3 4k
Pug4 2.1k
Me in the Oberth 3.4k
I hope some others try this and post their builds. This is really a lot of fun. I actually haven't had this much fun in a long time.
It's only a fix if there was a problem to be fixed and there quite plainly isn't one.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Makes me wish I still had my T2 Connie-Refit, but I don't have the gear to give it yet. Jeez, I hate being poor.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
Well then forgive me if I choose to take the leaver penalty and just warp out as soon as I see a T1 ship in an STF. Call if rage quitting if you want, I don't. You choose to do that and it is okay, then it would be perfectly acceptable for me to respond in kind.
Yes I agree.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
I just wanted to point out that all the stfs I participated in using the oberth were successful, optional and all. I also never had the lowest dps. Also, oddly enough no one complained and I even had a heal tossed my way when the Borg tactical cube decided I was a threat.
All I will say is this...this guy can fly that frakkin ship like Michael Schumacher in an F1 car. I didnt even have to heal him as he was all over the map blasting away at everything....putting out insane damage for an Oberth even with elite and fleet gear.
No one in the pug hated on him, as a matter of fact one person said they were going to buy an Oberth now because of what they saw.
Good lord what if this becomes a trend!
I wonder where this "fear" of angering people comes from?
Personaly i would NOT be happy to see the mentioned ship in a PUG,
but if he plays in a normal manner (participating instead of afking)
and has a repaired ship (no injuries) why should i care?
And i bet most people will tell you the same.
If someone tries something, no matter how strange or innefective it seems,
its okay, even if i dislike it, the participation is, what matters in the end.
If he pulls his own weight, and thats even in an "skittle" or "rainbow" boat possible,
i wont say a word.
I only get "angry" if people on purpose sabotage the Group by AFKing for prolonged
periods without saying a word, or if they join with allready heavily injured ships (more then 4 injuries)
and even then, i ask once about the matter, in a neutral tone, and if no answer is given, i simply report for griefplay.
But i have yet to see (and i played a few hundreds of ESTFs by now) anybody getting angry, or complaining, about someone doing something unusual.
So far the "worst" thing was a refference to an Obelisk as "noobelisk" because the player using it, was... far below every standard you need to play Elite modes...
Give me the BMF in the Oberth over the wannabe cowboy who goes right in ISE attacking generators and ignoring the cube ANY day of the week.
i second this!
Support the Typhoon and Jupiter class starships!
what about mondays? (i agree btw)
Support the Typhoon and Jupiter class starships!
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I also want to do this now.
I mean hating one someone, for having a T1 ship is just ridiculous, especially if they are above the last person DPS and damage wise.
I mean i accidentaly jumped into an ESTF with my test build(test builds consist of all Mk X common gear for accurate testing) And i still out DPS and out Damaged every other player in my PUG, (havent posted photos anywhere yet to link).
So as shown by previous posters it can be done, if you are mad about someone bringing a ship in then thats your fault, we had a shuttle come in with us (before that was fixed and it was an accident) and he did not do too bad.
If i had a Tuffli i would totally roll into an ESTF in it, hardcore battle tuffli........."We are Strong now...":D
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Never forget those truly wonderful Tac captains in Avengers that literally have no idea what they are doing. Those are the true treasures
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I does happen quite a bit. Every so often you meet a player who has thrown the rulebook out of the window and plays how they want, it is refreshing to see.
There needs to be a cross faction chat channel for such builds and players willing to fly with them. Any ship, any setup and just have a laugh. I would join it in a heartbeat!
"A good pilot in a bad plane is worth 5 bad pilots in a good plane."
I have been in enough STF's where the noob play killed the STF more than the type of loadout or the level of ship. If someone can rock a lower tier ship let them. In fleet actions it doesn't matter at all really and elite STF as long as the player knows what to do and what is limitations are and how to use his ship be is worth more than a lot of other players who just want the STF over as fast as possible to get their marks and leave.
Already been done I believe, by the Ausmonauts Fleet.
Now you are exagerating, i had a KSE yesterday which took ONE hour for the gates...
Donatra then, was... impossible to kill...
i did quit 20 mins after the donatra fight did start in utter disgust
Admittedly I'm now eyeing my T2 Franken-Connie rotting in mothballs. I'm afraid I'm too pathetic to pull off a T1, but now I'm wondering...
I hope it's meant to be ironic. :mad:
I am glad the conversation seems to be taking a turn for the better.
Please remember that everybody doesn't play this game the same way and for the same reasons. You are each entitled to your own opinions, but personal attacks on other forum users are not tolerated.
Accusing people of trolling, either in the game or in the forums, is not up to you. If you believe someone is trolling, please report the post and a moderator will investigate and take any appropriate action.
Calling other people trolls, or worse, is itself a violation of forum rules and will only get you moderated.
Again, thanks to the people who are making a constructive and civil contribution to this thread. It is appreciated.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Hmm. Are you referring to the ship blown up by French Intelligence Services, which killed one crew member?
Because if you are I hope you're being ironic.
I can't speak for the original Oberth pilot, but I know for me positional awareness was critical. You need to stay on the inside edge of combat and not let yourself get outflanked. Also, I would generally let another ship take aggro on dangerous targets (like a borg cube) first and hope they kept it. I actually didn't have all that much trouble keeping my shields up (tactical team 1 and two conn duty officers to reduce the cool down kept my facing up rather well) it was the kinetic damage from torpedoes and plasma burn that would eat away at my 12k hull hit points that was really dangerous. With only hazard emitters for a hull heal it was tricky keeping my hull up when I came under attack.
What I really enjoyed about the experience was how dangerous the borg became. It felt very much like being at the battle of wolf 359. Like my ship could be destroyed at any moment.
I am the guy with the Oberth that is being discussed in this thread. I appreciate all the positive feedback and comments...and to the naysayers I say LICK THE FUNGUS FROM MY FEET YOU PLEBIAN PUDDINGHEADS!!!!!!
I created the Rainbow Warior for a reason already mentioned in this thread: the STFs have become to easy.
I mean, even with a Pug 9 times out of ten the Borg cubes get blown up before I can even turn on the engines of my Fleet Nebula....and then its just a cake walk. I wanted a sense of danger, a sense of foreboding, a sense of REAL trepidation.
I wanted to feel what a REAL Starfleet Captain might feel when faced with the Borg.
And that is when I came up with the idea of the Rainbow Warrior.
When I use her in pugs I feel that sense of thrill, of fear of danger, because one or two hits can blow her to pieces. It FORCES you to be a better captain, it MAKES you be a better player because unlike those "dash in kill get marks reque" types you actually need to THINK in a T1 ship.
People who slam it or threaten to report me are only admitting that they could never pull off what I or anyone else who regularly does this can do. Its easy to show up in an Avenger and just blast everything to pieces, any unskilled person can do that.
I live on the knife edge of death when I take the Rainbow Warrior into an STF. I am more alive than ANY of you when I do so (from a game point of view anyway) because I am so near death.
I spit in the Borg's face in my Oberth. I kick them in their assimilated gonads. I laugh at them and say "I am in a T1 Oberth and I shall NOT be assimilated! COME AT ME BRO!!!"
http://www.unrepentantgaming.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9016&d=1386998586
Thanks for doing this...I probably would have never bothered myself had I not seen this thread and gave it a try for myself. It is most definitely a lot of fun flying the Oberth!
Helped you out, can't see the pic unless you are a member of the forums there
[URL="[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/nc1jrs.jpg[/IMG]"]
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're going, and hook up with them later.