Because any ship without a special console is considered Tier 4 by today's standards.
Significantly larger.
He wants enough shield power so he can AFK and let his pets fight for him, instead of actually trying to maneuver his double decker-bus-with-four-flat-tires into an engagement.
I'm unfamiliar with the term "Mary Sue" but I'm guessing as much as he can think of.
Mary Sue is a trope from a site that discusses differing stereotypes in movies, and by extension, games.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Let's just have a T5 Star base that moves around, and spams Odyssey, and Avenger cruisers. We can call it a "Tactical Starbase." This also jives with the whole "Vice Admiral" thing, anyway.
[Sarcasm]
Hey, why not? If DS9 can move from Bajor orbit to the Bajoran
wormhole, why not have Starbases that fly around?
Starbase
1 billion hull
1 billion shield mod
0.5 impulse mod
0.5 inertia
1 turn rate
6 Cmdr uni boff slots
8 weapons, all with 360' arc
8 devices
8 eng consoles
8 sci consoles
8 tac consoles
8 hanger bays, with a mix of Odysseys, Vestas, Avengers, Kumaris, Armitages, Regents, Galaxy Dreadnoughts, and Jupiter Dreadnoughts.
What do you guys think of that? LOL
[Sarcasm ends]
Ok, seriously, I think the Jupiter isn't a bad idea. And the Miranda is about the size of a BoP, at least that's how they look when Mirandas and BoPs fly in formation together in the Dyson sphere. But if they're too unbelievable... what kind of fed ship is the size of a BoP?
Winning.
It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
A big Fat liberty class freighter....Its a Constitution looking ship in apperance but with a much larger hull
1 heavy bay
1 standard bay
movement of 6
3/Tac
3/eng
3/eng
3/sci
devlop a frigate small craft a corvette type of ship that deals with pirates/boarding actions because thats what a Fed carrier would be designed for
naturally a boarding party shuttle would be this ships main attack with a tractor beam a few pahsers and a photon
special attack a BO 1 or 2
knowing cryptic the Fed carrier if ever made will be smaller than the fighters it carries and not resemble a Fed ship at all
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Let's just have a T5 Star base that moves around, and spams Odyssey, and Avenger cruisers. We can call it a "Tactical Starbase." This also jives with the whole "Vice Admiral" thing, anyway.
While you are trying to be ironic I ask this "looking at the rest of STO, what would it matter id they DID release a moving starbase?"
Heck, waiting for it to move around might be just the thing to make STFs last more than a few minutes again!
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I'm surprised to see how many people consider a Vo'Quv with a silly gimmick to be overpowered. Even with that 30% shield increase for the fleet version, that's still less shields than the Recluse.Speaking of which, the best carrier is already available to the federation. And it has frigates.
But I do sympathize with people who want to have a carrier with a more classical federation look. Plus, having flown Recluse, Vo'Quv, JH Dreadnought and Obelisk, the Atrox as the federations only native full carrier is underwhelming (even the builds that work well on it can be done better on other ships).
But I do sympathize with people who want to have a carrier with a more classical federation look. Plus, having flown Recluse, Vo'Quv, JH Dreadnought and Obelisk, the Atrox as the federations only native full carrier is underwhelming (even the builds that work well on it can be done better on other ships).
I wouldn't mind if we Feds got a "Starfleet-designed" carrier, but I also wouldn't mind if the kept it exclusive to Klingons and perhaps Romulans (they make the best hangar pets in the game - Elite Scorpions and Drone Frigates - so it's not a stretch that they could make a monster of a dedicated carrier when they put their minds to it).
Mostly I'm interested in a Feddie carrier out of wanting to see what that would look like. I generally enjoy Cryptic's 25th-century design style (I might be in the minority), so seeing them take on a carrier would be sight to see.
Barring that, a minor buff to the Atrox would be nice too. Or maybe a Feddie-designed "frigate"-sized pet.
I see both sides of the argument around Fed carriers, and they have valid points, both for and against:
For:
- The use of Peregrines and fighter squadrons is definitely canonical, so there's no question that Starfleet can and will use small craft in combat if necessary or optimal.
- In this troubled time of 2409 it's not logical to expect the Federation to cut out a potentially useful line of tactical options purely on philosophical grounds (Battle cloaks are another matter! Leave them out of this!). Heck, they built themselves a Battle Cruiser after seeing how well the Klinks did in theirs (and the Klinks copied it right back just yesterday )
- Starfleet already HAS a dedicated carrier: The Atrox. It just so happens to be a Caitian design. AND they're using Obelilsks, Recluses, and Jammie Dreads, so there's clearly no fundamental debate over whether to HAVE carriers operate in Starfleet, just whether or not they need any MORE of them
Against
- Remote control and drone malarkey aside, there really is a good debate to be had over the "ethics of cannon fodder" in the use of carriers. Given the survival rate of small craft in heavy combat (both on the screen and in the game), it really DOES seem a bit "iffy" for Starfleet to want to put so many pilots and crews in harm's way as a point of policy. It's one thing to license the Caitians' original designs, or to take the opportunity to use ships being sold to you by opportunistic lobi merchants, but it's another to design and build a bunch of your own.
- Carriers are much more "Klingon" than Starfleet. We already know that Klink ships have HUGE numbers of crew (look at the Mogh's 2000 vs. the Avenger's 700, on otherwise identical ships), and anyone who things "today is a good day to die" probably would have a good place in the cockpit of a To'duj
- Carriers are simply NOT as important to Star Trek as they are to the real world. Whereas IRL they are pretty much the centerpiece of any navy that can afford them (very few of which can), an STO carrier is just another ship. Desire for a new Federation carrier in STO is purely a matter of keeping up with the Joneses (or J'ons'zz, as it were ).
I think the issue we have in STO is that carriers are not actually being used as carriers, I will explain:
A carrier is a fleet support vessel, there roles include fleet defence, reconaisance, close defence, and offensive support actions among others, these ships are designed to be used among other ships of frigate and cruiser class, not as a solo unit, their strength and flexibility gives any fleet an edge in combat.
In STO, a carrier is effectivly a large science cruiser with the ability to launch ai pets, they provide no way of fullfilling the majority of a carriers role other than the offensive support role, you also rarely find carriers working as part of a focussed fleet.
In my oppinion the game does need more carriers, but ones that are true carriers rather than combat/science cruisers with pets, scrub the subsystem targeting and give the ships the options of recon, fleet defence etc, I know the pets have new focus abilities but they are all around the carrier itself, perhaps they should be more fleet based, for example, during a PVE situation you can set you ships to attack a target, defend the fleet i.e. moving to defend ships under greatest threat of damage, or perhaps do some kind of recon that debuffs the target but doesnt actually damage it.
As for the arguments of fighters being useless in the startrek universe, I will say this, if you are being attacked by 4 ships, 1 of them is a carrier, 2 are escorts and 1 is a cruiser, the carrier launches say 20 fighters, and at the same time the fleet engages you, do you A: vape the fighters that are nibbling at your ship and gradualy damaging you but ignore the far higher damage from the cruisers/escorts (ships have only limited numbers of weapons you can fire at a target, even a phaser array can only emit from a set number of possitions and will be a lower power beam if it does) or B: do you engage the cruiser/escorts and ignore the fighters that are gradualy chewing through your shields.
Fighters force a target to consider more options than they want to, they also provide harrasing attacks that will drain energy from sheilds that if ignored could kill you.
I will now sit back and await the inevatable haters point out the gross errors in my post that dont fir with their views of the game
Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
Just a thought I had the other day. But Carriers are also filling part of the true dreadnaught or battleship role.
The reason I say this is that at every tier ships carry about the same amount and classes of weapons. At tier 5 an escort which is basically a PT boat carries the same number of and caliber of weapon as seen on cruisers and bigger dreadnaught type ships. Negating the point of a bigger ship being it carries more weapons.
The carrier carries 6-8 weapons, making the onboard weaponry about consistent. But then has deployable small guns. Up to 12 total extra guns/torpedoes. So it has firing more weapons than even a battleship.
You want to silence carriers, why not slow cruiser sublight speed, But increase the number of weapon points on them to make them capable of the sheer volume of fire they should be able to at these levels?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I wouldn't mind if we Feds got a "Starfleet-designed" carrier, but I also wouldn't mind if the kept it exclusive to Klingons and perhaps Romulans (they make the best hangar pets in the game - Elite Scorpions and Drone Frigates - so it's not a stretch that they could make a monster of a dedicated carrier when they put their minds to it).
Please god, no. One hangar launching Drone Frigates is already crazy good. Two would be obscene.
Just a thought I had the other day. But Carriers are also filling part of the true dreadnaught or battleship role.
The reason I say this is that at every tier ships carry about the same amount and classes of weapons. At tier 5 an escort which is basically a PT boat carries the same number of and caliber of weapon as seen on cruisers and bigger dreadnaught type ships. Negating the point of a bigger ship being it carries more weapons.
The carrier carries 6-8 weapons, making the onboard weaponry about consistent. But then has deployable small guns. Up to 12 total extra guns/torpedoes. So it has firing more weapons than even a battleship.
You want to silence carriers, why not slow cruiser sublight speed, But increase the number of weapon points on them to make them capable of the sheer volume of fire they should be able to at these levels?
Short of mounting more arrays/weapons hardpoints on a ship I cant see how you would get this to work, Beam arrays can only fire from a finate number of points, there power is reduced the more points you use, so to have more beams coming out, you need more arrays, which in turn will drain more warp core power, resulting in the need of a bigger/more powerfull core, if you want cannons, then your going to need to either add more space for extra hardpoints, strap them on to the ship or loose something else to be replaced by more guns, while in an ideal world you could just wack more beam points/cannon points to a ship in the game, the semi realistic practicalities still have to be considered, if you want more guns your gona have to loose something else, and sublight speed isnt realy one as if i remember right, sublight drives dont pull that much power anyway, otherwise you wouldnt be able to manouver in combat.
A good example is the recent Avenger, its got lots of weapons hardpoints, and is a pure combat ship, but it sacrifices on crew space for this privilage, this reduces in game crew and their effects on hull/system regen, the new klink one has overcome this issue by being bloody huge, which in turn makes it a bigger target. Alas when it comes to creating something that works and is powerfull you cant allways have your cake and eat it.
Also, since when have carriers been armed to the teath, their main strength is their deploayble equipment be it fighter or what ever you using, at best a carrier should have CIWS or equivalent, carriers shouldnt be able to be dreadnoughts.
Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
Short of mounting more arrays/weapons hardpoints on a ship I cant see how you would get this to work, Beam arrays can only fire from a finate number of points, there power is reduced the more points you use, so to have more beams coming out, you need more arrays, which in turn will drain more warp core power, resulting in the need of a bigger/more powerfull core, if you want cannons, then your going to need to either add more space for extra hardpoints, strap them on to the ship or loose something else to be replaced by more guns, while in an ideal world you could just wack more beam points/cannon points to a ship in the game, the semi realistic practicalities still have to be considered, if you want more guns your gona have to loose something else, and sublight speed isnt realy one as if i remember right, sublight drives dont pull that much power anyway, otherwise you wouldnt be able to manouver in combat.
A good example is the recent Avenger, its got lots of weapons hardpoints, and is a pure combat ship, but it sacrifices on crew space for this privilage, this reduces in game crew and their effects on hull/system regen, the new klink one has overcome this issue by being bloody huge, which in turn makes it a bigger target. Alas when it comes to creating something that works and is powerfull you cant allways have your cake and eat it.
Also, since when have carriers been armed to the teath, their main strength is their deploayble equipment be it fighter or what ever you using, at best a carrier should have CIWS or equivalent, carriers shouldnt be able to be dreadnoughts.
Oh the carriers in STO really are closer to the definition of a battlestar. But the point on large ships is they also carry bigger power plants. Right now you want more power in your shuttle? Pull the warp core out of your heavy cruiser and drop it right in there. No sorry it wasn't extra power. But you got a few new effects out of it.
That it the issue on the 'fair balance' being done. A shuttle can't use an escort's power plant, an escort can't use cruiser's and so on. Bigger ships have more raw power. Then when you get to the huge sizes you can mount incredibly redundant extra weapons all over.
I do not know if the engine can be coded with it. But of they want cruisers to broad side. Try giving them a side mounted 90 degree weapon points. But angle the 90 toward the front. So diving straight at a cruiser is a bad idea and gives another tactical reason an escort wants to hit them in the rear.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Oh the carriers in STO really are closer to the definition of a battlestar. But the point on large ships is they also carry bigger power plants. Right now you want more power in your shuttle? Pull the warp core out of your heavy cruiser and drop it right in there. No sorry it wasn't extra power. But you got a few new effects out of it.
That it the issue on the 'fair balance' being done. A shuttle can't use an escort's power plant, an escort can't use cruiser's and so on. Bigger ships have more raw power. Then when you get to the huge sizes you can mount incredibly redundant extra weapons all over.
I do not know if the engine can be coded with it. But of they want cruisers to broad side. Try giving them a side mounted 90 degree weapon points. But angle the 90 toward the front. So diving straight at a cruiser is a bad idea and gives another tactical reason an escort wants to hit them in the rear.
I think true carriers should be given a greater strength when it comes to pets, perhaps with similar ideas to the VATA console but for fighters, rather than actual pets, and give them carrier only weapons that are effectlivly point defence systems/short range offensive weapons, I find carriers are better suted as pillboxes anyway so thats probnably how they should be focused.
Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
I really like my Obelisk, I like the Swarmers, I think they are amazingly lethal, but I do not really like how the Obelisk looks, for all it's bulk the design is very simplistic.
Now I'm a strong supporter of different factions having different tactical advantages, not every faction needs to have what other factions have so long as they have something else that balances things out.
That said, carriers don't really fit in Star Trek for any side in an era with smart weapons and accurate energy weapons, they were never a part of the franchise outside of the fan created expanded universe, but since carriers have been introduced into the game there's no reason why everyone shouldn't have them.
My beef with the Federation full carrier is it doesn't look like a Starfleet ship.
The Armitage Escort Carrier looks like a Starfleet ship but the Atrox barely even looks like a ship at all, no Starfleet colors, no saucer, no nacelles, no great paint schemes done to break up a large simplistic phallic shape, for this reason I believe that there should be a Federation full carrier that follows a recognizable Starfleet lineage.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
How about this: Feddies can get a 'Starfleet' full carrier roughly equivalent to the Vo'Quv or something, and the KDF can get their own version of the Vesta or Armitage (with innate cloaks :P ), which are half-carriers that are more useful than the friggin Flight-Deck Cruisers the KDF has. Those things are basically just Federation cruisers with a hangar bay and a KDF skin. Only a few actually use them regularly. . .because anything those Flight-Deck Cruisers can do, the Vo'Quv and Kar'fi can do better.
Comments
Mary Sue is a trope from a site that discusses differing stereotypes in movies, and by extension, games.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
[Sarcasm]
Hey, why not? If DS9 can move from Bajor orbit to the Bajoran
wormhole, why not have Starbases that fly around?
Starbase
1 billion hull
1 billion shield mod
0.5 impulse mod
0.5 inertia
1 turn rate
6 Cmdr uni boff slots
8 weapons, all with 360' arc
8 devices
8 eng consoles
8 sci consoles
8 tac consoles
8 hanger bays, with a mix of Odysseys, Vestas, Avengers, Kumaris, Armitages, Regents, Galaxy Dreadnoughts, and Jupiter Dreadnoughts.
What do you guys think of that? LOL
[Sarcasm ends]
Ok, seriously, I think the Jupiter isn't a bad idea. And the Miranda is about the size of a BoP, at least that's how they look when Mirandas and BoPs fly in formation together in the Dyson sphere. But if they're too unbelievable... what kind of fed ship is the size of a BoP?
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Wait, carrier spam. This gives me a few ideas.
Smaller fighters so you get 12 per hangar instead of at max six.
Or, A frigate pet that launches 2 fighters.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
1 heavy bay
1 standard bay
movement of 6
3/Tac
3/eng
3/eng
3/sci
devlop a frigate small craft a corvette type of ship that deals with pirates/boarding actions because thats what a Fed carrier would be designed for
naturally a boarding party shuttle would be this ships main attack with a tractor beam a few pahsers and a photon
special attack a BO 1 or 2
knowing cryptic the Fed carrier if ever made will be smaller than the fighters it carries and not resemble a Fed ship at all
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
While you are trying to be ironic I ask this "looking at the rest of STO, what would it matter id they DID release a moving starbase?"
Heck, waiting for it to move around might be just the thing to make STFs last more than a few minutes again!
The Drek'hi Dreadnought that the Fek'ihri use.
Do NWS against them, or some other means of finding that ship, and look at it. It really does look like it should be a floating space station.
"Make it so" - Captain Picard
Build I am working for my Federation, Klingon, and Romulans.
Feds have an Atrox and the new Obelisk . . . and THAT is too far for a class of ship that is supposed to be KDF only.
No, Feds should NOT have ANOTHER carrier. OR access to a Raider for that matter.
Carrier Curious after the Obelisk? Roll a Kling, go buy a Mirror Vo'Quv on the exchange for about 250K EC and find out what they're REALLY about.
But I do sympathize with people who want to have a carrier with a more classical federation look. Plus, having flown Recluse, Vo'Quv, JH Dreadnought and Obelisk, the Atrox as the federations only native full carrier is underwhelming (even the builds that work well on it can be done better on other ships).
I wouldn't mind if we Feds got a "Starfleet-designed" carrier, but I also wouldn't mind if the kept it exclusive to Klingons and perhaps Romulans (they make the best hangar pets in the game - Elite Scorpions and Drone Frigates - so it's not a stretch that they could make a monster of a dedicated carrier when they put their minds to it).
Mostly I'm interested in a Feddie carrier out of wanting to see what that would look like. I generally enjoy Cryptic's 25th-century design style (I might be in the minority), so seeing them take on a carrier would be sight to see.
Barring that, a minor buff to the Atrox would be nice too. Or maybe a Feddie-designed "frigate"-sized pet.
I see both sides of the argument around Fed carriers, and they have valid points, both for and against:
For:
- The use of Peregrines and fighter squadrons is definitely canonical, so there's no question that Starfleet can and will use small craft in combat if necessary or optimal.
- In this troubled time of 2409 it's not logical to expect the Federation to cut out a potentially useful line of tactical options purely on philosophical grounds (Battle cloaks are another matter! Leave them out of this!). Heck, they built themselves a Battle Cruiser after seeing how well the Klinks did in theirs (and the Klinks copied it right back just yesterday
- Starfleet already HAS a dedicated carrier: The Atrox. It just so happens to be a Caitian design. AND they're using Obelilsks, Recluses, and Jammie Dreads, so there's clearly no fundamental debate over whether to HAVE carriers operate in Starfleet, just whether or not they need any MORE of them
Against
- Remote control and drone malarkey aside, there really is a good debate to be had over the "ethics of cannon fodder" in the use of carriers. Given the survival rate of small craft in heavy combat (both on the screen and in the game), it really DOES seem a bit "iffy" for Starfleet to want to put so many pilots and crews in harm's way as a point of policy. It's one thing to license the Caitians' original designs, or to take the opportunity to use ships being sold to you by opportunistic lobi merchants, but it's another to design and build a bunch of your own.
- Carriers are much more "Klingon" than Starfleet. We already know that Klink ships have HUGE numbers of crew (look at the Mogh's 2000 vs. the Avenger's 700, on otherwise identical ships), and anyone who things "today is a good day to die" probably would have a good place in the cockpit of a To'duj
- Carriers are simply NOT as important to Star Trek as they are to the real world. Whereas IRL they are pretty much the centerpiece of any navy that can afford them (very few of which can), an STO carrier is just another ship. Desire for a new Federation carrier in STO is purely a matter of keeping up with the Joneses (or J'ons'zz, as it were
A carrier is a fleet support vessel, there roles include fleet defence, reconaisance, close defence, and offensive support actions among others, these ships are designed to be used among other ships of frigate and cruiser class, not as a solo unit, their strength and flexibility gives any fleet an edge in combat.
In STO, a carrier is effectivly a large science cruiser with the ability to launch ai pets, they provide no way of fullfilling the majority of a carriers role other than the offensive support role, you also rarely find carriers working as part of a focussed fleet.
In my oppinion the game does need more carriers, but ones that are true carriers rather than combat/science cruisers with pets, scrub the subsystem targeting and give the ships the options of recon, fleet defence etc, I know the pets have new focus abilities but they are all around the carrier itself, perhaps they should be more fleet based, for example, during a PVE situation you can set you ships to attack a target, defend the fleet i.e. moving to defend ships under greatest threat of damage, or perhaps do some kind of recon that debuffs the target but doesnt actually damage it.
As for the arguments of fighters being useless in the startrek universe, I will say this, if you are being attacked by 4 ships, 1 of them is a carrier, 2 are escorts and 1 is a cruiser, the carrier launches say 20 fighters, and at the same time the fleet engages you, do you A: vape the fighters that are nibbling at your ship and gradualy damaging you but ignore the far higher damage from the cruisers/escorts (ships have only limited numbers of weapons you can fire at a target, even a phaser array can only emit from a set number of possitions and will be a lower power beam if it does) or B: do you engage the cruiser/escorts and ignore the fighters that are gradualy chewing through your shields.
Fighters force a target to consider more options than they want to, they also provide harrasing attacks that will drain energy from sheilds that if ignored could kill you.
I will now sit back and await the inevatable haters point out the gross errors in my post that dont fir with their views of the game
The reason I say this is that at every tier ships carry about the same amount and classes of weapons. At tier 5 an escort which is basically a PT boat carries the same number of and caliber of weapon as seen on cruisers and bigger dreadnaught type ships. Negating the point of a bigger ship being it carries more weapons.
The carrier carries 6-8 weapons, making the onboard weaponry about consistent. But then has deployable small guns. Up to 12 total extra guns/torpedoes. So it has firing more weapons than even a battleship.
You want to silence carriers, why not slow cruiser sublight speed, But increase the number of weapon points on them to make them capable of the sheer volume of fire they should be able to at these levels?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Better yet: Gorn Carrier.:D
Make it so.
Please god, no. One hangar launching Drone Frigates is already crazy good. Two would be obscene.
Short of mounting more arrays/weapons hardpoints on a ship I cant see how you would get this to work, Beam arrays can only fire from a finate number of points, there power is reduced the more points you use, so to have more beams coming out, you need more arrays, which in turn will drain more warp core power, resulting in the need of a bigger/more powerfull core, if you want cannons, then your going to need to either add more space for extra hardpoints, strap them on to the ship or loose something else to be replaced by more guns, while in an ideal world you could just wack more beam points/cannon points to a ship in the game, the semi realistic practicalities still have to be considered, if you want more guns your gona have to loose something else, and sublight speed isnt realy one as if i remember right, sublight drives dont pull that much power anyway, otherwise you wouldnt be able to manouver in combat.
A good example is the recent Avenger, its got lots of weapons hardpoints, and is a pure combat ship, but it sacrifices on crew space for this privilage, this reduces in game crew and their effects on hull/system regen, the new klink one has overcome this issue by being bloody huge, which in turn makes it a bigger target. Alas when it comes to creating something that works and is powerfull you cant allways have your cake and eat it.
Also, since when have carriers been armed to the teath, their main strength is their deploayble equipment be it fighter or what ever you using, at best a carrier should have CIWS or equivalent, carriers shouldnt be able to be dreadnoughts.
Oh the carriers in STO really are closer to the definition of a battlestar. But the point on large ships is they also carry bigger power plants. Right now you want more power in your shuttle? Pull the warp core out of your heavy cruiser and drop it right in there. No sorry it wasn't extra power. But you got a few new effects out of it.
That it the issue on the 'fair balance' being done. A shuttle can't use an escort's power plant, an escort can't use cruiser's and so on. Bigger ships have more raw power. Then when you get to the huge sizes you can mount incredibly redundant extra weapons all over.
I do not know if the engine can be coded with it. But of they want cruisers to broad side. Try giving them a side mounted 90 degree weapon points. But angle the 90 toward the front. So diving straight at a cruiser is a bad idea and gives another tactical reason an escort wants to hit them in the rear.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I think true carriers should be given a greater strength when it comes to pets, perhaps with similar ideas to the VATA console but for fighters, rather than actual pets, and give them carrier only weapons that are effectlivly point defence systems/short range offensive weapons, I find carriers are better suted as pillboxes anyway so thats probnably how they should be focused.
Now I'm a strong supporter of different factions having different tactical advantages, not every faction needs to have what other factions have so long as they have something else that balances things out.
That said, carriers don't really fit in Star Trek for any side in an era with smart weapons and accurate energy weapons, they were never a part of the franchise outside of the fan created expanded universe, but since carriers have been introduced into the game there's no reason why everyone shouldn't have them.
My beef with the Federation full carrier is it doesn't look like a Starfleet ship.
The Armitage Escort Carrier looks like a Starfleet ship but the Atrox barely even looks like a ship at all, no Starfleet colors, no saucer, no nacelles, no great paint schemes done to break up a large simplistic phallic shape, for this reason I believe that there should be a Federation full carrier that follows a recognizable Starfleet lineage.