No Carriers please. No new ships based on background starships found in 3 frames of film.
Fighters in space are NOT realistic. Any warp-capable species could easily target and destroy fighters at 10km out. They are of NO tactical or strategic value in starship combat, and exist only as a vestigial fan-boy wish.
Probes and drones are much more realistic. Make them expendable resources like batteries so that any starship can use them.
What do we need another carrier for? Some kind of frigate might be nice maybe (just to have a pet that can take a hit), but beyond that what would yet another carrier add to the game?
if you want to be physics'y about it, the defiant class and those with similar displacment would be the 'starfighters'.
smaller then that and you have tractor barges, signal recon, runabouts & atmospheric ground assault craft. which scorpions clearly wouldnt be more than.:
the defiant is nowhere near a starfighter did you watch DS9 that thing is small but it is still bigger than most modern day warships
The gimmick -- it launches drone/probe based pets:
@ science "probe" that in effect debuffs whatever target it's aimed at.
@ science "probe" that has an AOE debuff.
@ science "probe" that generates a blue swirling vortex of suck.
@ tactical "drones" similar to the Avenger console but different enough that it's not a copy.
@ tactical "drones" that function as long-range anti-structure torpedoes
@ tactical "drones" that can disable a chosen subsystem
And so on. These are just suggestions of course... Some of these would be game-breaking. However the drone-probe conceit is the way to go for a dedicated Starfleet Carrier.
Oh and just because, I'd base it on the Galaxy Class frame.
Fighters in space are NOT realistic. Any warp-capable species could easily target and destroy fighters at 10km out. They are of NO tactical or strategic value in starship combat, and exist only as a vestigial fan-boy wish.
I have wanted to question this for some time. Some people say that unless you are altering the medium. (Going from water to air.) fighters are useless as you can just use a ship for the same effect.
Except I see a few things that would make a space fighter a viable option.
First the square cubed law. A big ship needs massively bigger thrust to move and change direction over a small one. So a fighter sized craft can be faster than a large one and alter direction easier.
Because it is not a long distance vehicle it does not need to carry full provisioning that a large ship does. Merely the atmosphere for the pilot to breathe. Then it also does not need extensive fuel reserves since it is tied to a refueling point. These two points lower mass.
You use this savings to put in larger weapons and power for those weapons so they are a threat to larger vessels. (An early fighter did not destroy capital ships on its own. Flights of them went out and saturated them.)
Next they need to be able to go further than your own readily targetable weapons.
What am I missing?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
No Carriers please. No new ships based on background starships found in 3 frames of film.
Fighters in space are NOT realistic. Any warp-capable species could easily target and destroy fighters at 10km out. They are of NO tactical or strategic value in starship combat, and exist only as a vestigial fan-boy wish.
Probes and drones are much more realistic. Make them expendable resources like batteries so that any starship can use them.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Can't the klingons have one thing the feds or roms don't have? Do we HAVE to have cookie cutter?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Can't the klingons have one thing the feds or roms don't have? Do we HAVE to have cookie cutter?
We're so close its kinda hard not to be cookie cutter at this point. Its like (the Blizzard game with orcs and humans whose names gets filtered out) 2, almost the same except for a few spells that make one side flat-out better. If we wanna be diverse, needs to be Starcraft, and its probably too late for that now.
If u guys want a Starfleet Carrier ask Cryptic to make the Federation NPC Jupiter class Dreadnought and convert it to a C-store playable Carrier like how they did with the Jem'hadar Dreadnought (lobi store ship). but they have to make it have more details and have more customize options for it, just look at it size and shape... it can be done.
The gimmick -- it launches drone/probe based pets:
@ science "probe" that in effect debuffs whatever target it's aimed at.
@ science "probe" that has an AOE debuff.
@ science "probe" that generates a blue swirling vortex of suck.
@ tactical "drones" similar to the Avenger console but different enough that it's not a copy.
@ tactical "drones" that function as long-range anti-structure torpedoes
@ tactical "drones" that can disable a chosen subsystem
And so on. These are just suggestions of course... Some of these would be game-breaking. However the drone-probe conceit is the way to go for a dedicated Starfleet Carrier.
Oh and just because, I'd base it on the Galaxy Class frame.
Too powerful. You can't have two commander BOFF slots on the same ship. Not going to happen unless the game expands to have a Tier 12 ship.
This is exactly how many full-sized faction-specific carriers KDF has - Vo`Quv. Mirrov Vo`Quv it's only a variant (and not very useful one if you are controller/debuffer).
To give Federtion yet nother carrier is to make them having MORE carriers than KDF.
Sorry, but UFP is not a carrier faction.
It would be even fitting compared to Vo`Qov, since KDF carrier also has two different skins and they certainly don't look like the same type of ship (though they can be mix'n'matched for kitbashes).
This is exactly how many full-sized faction-specific carriers KDF has - Vo`Quv. Mirrov Vo`Quv it's only a variant (and not very useful one if you are controller/debuffer).
To give Federtion yet nother carrier is to make them having MORE carriers than KDF.
Sorry, but UFP is not a carrier faction.
It would be even fitting compared to Vo`Qov, since KDF carrier also has two different skins and they certainly don't look like the same type of ship (though they can be mix'n'matched for kitbashes).
Err, you're forgetting about the Fek'lhri battle carrier, which is also KDF-specific.
Take the Atrox. Add the Jupiter Class skin, add to C Store.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
also are you aware that the Jupiter class is 1.5km long it would be as big as the voth Citadel Dreadnought More of a super carrier than a carrier so we can't use it, can we?
also are you aware that the Jupiter class is 1.5km long it would be as big as the voth Citadel Dreadnought More of a super carrier than a carrier so we can't use it, can we?
Actually the Citadal Dreadnought (aka Voth Mothership in VOY) is far larger than 1.5 km and make the Jupiter class looks like a ant compare to it. if anything the Jupiter class is only slighty larger than the Bortasqu'.
also are you aware that the Jupiter class is 1.5km long it would be as big as the voth Citadel Dreadnought More of a super carrier than a carrier so we can't use it, can we?
The Vo'Quv is 1.2 km 300 m isn't that much.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
and thats called "your own complete ignorance of physics".
the smallest any combat craft will ever get in space will still be the size of a naval frigate of today.
if you think starwars or galactica style fighters will or can ever exist, you are if not totally ignorant, utterly delusional.
See previous post on how this is Star Trek and applying a realism-based argument is an exercise in futility.
Actually the Citadal Dreadnought (aka Voth Mothership in VOY) is far larger than 1.5 km and make the Jupiter class looks like a ant compare to it. if anything the Jupiter class is only slighty larger than the Bortasqu'.
I think you have the DN mixed up with the city-ship.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
and thats called "your own complete ignorance of physics".
the smallest any combat craft will ever get in space will still be the size of a naval frigate of today.
if you think starwars or galactica style fighters will or can ever exist, you are if not totally ignorant, utterly delusional.
of course ships that size cant fly about in space, they wouldn't have enough fuel or air in them SO STOP BEING AN IDIOT AND REALISE, THAT IS WHY WE HAVE CARRIERS so that we can refuel them and give them more air when they land again
If you don't agree with more carriers being added then just say don't write half thought out reasons why not to have them.
also I did not move to England and study at Newcastle university for 5 years for my Doctorate in applied physics to be considered as having "complete ignorance of physics" as you said.
and thats called "your own complete ignorance of physics".
the smallest any combat craft will ever get in space will still be the size of a naval frigate of today.
if you think starwars or galactica style fighters will or can ever exist, you are if not totally ignorant, utterly delusional.
I posted a very similar thread some time ago, and it didn't get much good feedback. Apparently, people are tired of carriers. They keep saying that if you want to play a carrier, play a Klingon.
I disagree, and I definitely think that the Federation deserves a full, 2 hanger bay carrier, one that isn't a shared ship between factions like the Obelisk, that isn't a ship made by another species like the Atrox, and one that isn't a mini carrier like the Armitage.
I want a Cruiser/Carrier with two hanger slots and at least a 3/3 weapons loadout that is engineering focused, a real tank of a ship with fighter support to engage enemies.
Comments
Fighters in space are NOT realistic. Any warp-capable species could easily target and destroy fighters at 10km out. They are of NO tactical or strategic value in starship combat, and exist only as a vestigial fan-boy wish.
Probes and drones are much more realistic. Make them expendable resources like batteries so that any starship can use them.
Diddn't We Already Have This Conversation?
the defiant is nowhere near a starfighter did you watch DS9 that thing is small but it is still bigger than most modern day warships
1 Commander Tac
1 Commander Sci
1 LT Commander Eng
2 Universal
4 Eng slots
2 Sci slots
2 Tac slots
4 forward weapons, 3 aft, one "turret only" slot.
The gimmick -- it launches drone/probe based pets:
@ science "probe" that in effect debuffs whatever target it's aimed at.
@ science "probe" that has an AOE debuff.
@ science "probe" that generates a blue swirling vortex of suck.
@ tactical "drones" similar to the Avenger console but different enough that it's not a copy.
@ tactical "drones" that function as long-range anti-structure torpedoes
@ tactical "drones" that can disable a chosen subsystem
And so on. These are just suggestions of course... Some of these would be game-breaking. However the drone-probe conceit is the way to go for a dedicated Starfleet Carrier.
Oh and just because, I'd base it on the Galaxy Class frame.
I have wanted to question this for some time. Some people say that unless you are altering the medium. (Going from water to air.) fighters are useless as you can just use a ship for the same effect.
Except I see a few things that would make a space fighter a viable option.
First the square cubed law. A big ship needs massively bigger thrust to move and change direction over a small one. So a fighter sized craft can be faster than a large one and alter direction easier.
Because it is not a long distance vehicle it does not need to carry full provisioning that a large ship does. Merely the atmosphere for the pilot to breathe. Then it also does not need extensive fuel reserves since it is tied to a refueling point. These two points lower mass.
You use this savings to put in larger weapons and power for those weapons so they are a threat to larger vessels. (An early fighter did not destroy capital ships on its own. Flights of them went out and saturated them.)
Next they need to be able to go further than your own readily targetable weapons.
What am I missing?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Helloooo? This is Star Trek, where godlike aliens run around wreaking havoc, where rogue planets in deep space have Earthlike environments, people get possessed by noncorporeal entities, and where the event horizon of a black hole can be cracked.
Check any realism-based argument at the door.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
This thing is basically a Vo`Qov copy. Only thing your faction needs is a white Fed-styled skin for it. And you're set.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
We're so close its kinda hard not to be cookie cutter at this point. Its like (the Blizzard game with orcs and humans whose names gets filtered out) 2, almost the same except for a few spells that make one side flat-out better. If we wanna be diverse, needs to be Starcraft, and its probably too late for that now.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Federation_Dreadnought
Personally, I would be happy with a fed skin for my Atrox.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Too powerful. You can't have two commander BOFF slots on the same ship. Not going to happen unless the game expands to have a Tier 12 ship.
Except that it will also need the classic saucer.
This is exactly how many full-sized faction-specific carriers KDF has - Vo`Quv. Mirrov Vo`Quv it's only a variant (and not very useful one if you are controller/debuffer).
To give Federtion yet nother carrier is to make them having MORE carriers than KDF.
Sorry, but UFP is not a carrier faction.
So yeah, taking this http://sto.gamepedia.com/Federation_Dreadnought and making it into optional Atrox skin would be enough.
It would be even fitting compared to Vo`Qov, since KDF carrier also has two different skins and they certainly don't look like the same type of ship (though they can be mix'n'matched for kitbashes).
Err, you're forgetting about the Fek'lhri battle carrier, which is also KDF-specific.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Just checking, when you guys say skin do you mean the hull material that is stretched over the model? Or do you mean the 3d model?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
also are you aware that the Jupiter class is 1.5km long it would be as big as the voth Citadel Dreadnought More of a super carrier than a carrier so we can't use it, can we?
Thank you.
And all I want is to use the star fleet hull materials on my Atrox. Like the Veteran . .
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Actually the Citadal Dreadnought (aka Voth Mothership in VOY) is far larger than 1.5 km and make the Jupiter class looks like a ant compare to it. if anything the Jupiter class is only slighty larger than the Bortasqu'.
Maybe if it was the jupy. But seriously, I'm getting tired of them Carriers.
model.
The Vo'Quv is 1.2 km 300 m isn't that much.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
See previous post on how this is Star Trek and applying a realism-based argument is an exercise in futility.
I think you have the DN mixed up with the city-ship.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
of course ships that size cant fly about in space, they wouldn't have enough fuel or air in them SO STOP BEING AN IDIOT AND REALISE, THAT IS WHY WE HAVE CARRIERS so that we can refuel them and give them more air when they land again
If you don't agree with more carriers being added then just say don't write half thought out reasons why not to have them.
also I did not move to England and study at Newcastle university for 5 years for my Doctorate in applied physics to be considered as having "complete ignorance of physics" as you said.
So...what does that make you?
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
I disagree, and I definitely think that the Federation deserves a full, 2 hanger bay carrier, one that isn't a shared ship between factions like the Obelisk, that isn't a ship made by another species like the Atrox, and one that isn't a mini carrier like the Armitage.
I want a Cruiser/Carrier with two hanger slots and at least a 3/3 weapons loadout that is engineering focused, a real tank of a ship with fighter support to engage enemies.