no problem so the other players cant join all at once just a few every month so big deal they will all join eventually.
even if you said lock the fleet size of the fleet at 10 so it will always be a small fleet no problem there just have members drop out so new ones can join as an when the need arises, at the end of the day there are many ways to make a large fleet look like a small fleet.
also you will often find that big fleets are often not as big as you think, so there is a fleet with 200 members, take out all the alts now theres only 20 members take out all the players who donate very little just the bare minimum and this big fleet isn't looking so big after all why should your small fleet benefit when theirs will not.
also it could be argued that you are the ones who chose to be in a small fleet so you must live with the consequences of your choice.
I am in a what would look like an average sized fleet but that is like as I described above mostly made of a small group who keep the fleet going lots of alts and a few members who donate a bare minimum amount but in fairness perhaps don't have time to play as often as the core group.
I have donated a great deal to my fleet though I have taken very little, I did not join a fleet for what I could get out of it and the size of the fleet or how fast we level up is of no real importance to me, I am in a fleet purely for the social benefits, I can quickly look at the fleet roster and see who's on have a bit of a chat and perhaps do a mission or two together.
but at the end of the day we could argue the pros and cons of small fleet large fleet till the cows come home.
and I don't really mind if they did introduce some kind of small fleet benefit system and its of no matter to me if they dont.
but at the end of the day for many reasons some of what maybe I have said, some of what others have said, and maybe some that we cant even know I cant see it ever happening.
No, it's not what i meant. I mean, you can have as many as you like join, as it is now, but put a time restraint on them for how long it is before they can actually donate to projects, to stop the abusers. Like i said, they implemented a time restraint of 2 weeks when a new member joins a fleet and gets ranked up to fleet admiral, they are classed as provisional or something. Why cant they do something like that to prevent abusers?
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
I'm suspecting that a truly levelless, "grind"less game where everyone starts with all the stuff they're going to need and then go play would be plagued (more than now anyway) with tons of "I'M BORED NOTHING 2 DO" posts days after launch, if not sooner.
It simply isnt affordable nor even possible to develop content at the pace people can tear through it. Old Republic is a fine example of that with a huge budget and high production values (yes yes I'm expecting argument there but I stand by it), yet people tore through the class stories and insatiably demanded more, more more and quickly.
And they wonder why bottlenecks like "grinds" exist.
True, true. But the way Cryptic and Bioware did it, isn't the smart way of implementing grind. Especially when you compare it against first gen MMOs like UO and EQ.
For an example, with EQ the grind was built into the leveling. So players were more focused on simply getting to the next level. And along the way you had a feeling of accomplishment when you hit that new level and unlocked new abilities. So that delayed you hitting endgame, where you had to conquer the new dungeon and eventually begin the camp for the new expansion drop items. But with STO and TOR's grinding, it's just obvious endgame busywork by having you play the same thing over and over with no real drive except to "complete this".
That's why people are grumbling, we are just grinding away to complete our reputation (which isn't really hard) and build our starbases. But what does that Starbase get us? That's the thing, the Starbase and repeating the same content we had for years, players lose their drive. And Cryptic has a very obvious problem with making new content that has staying power.
For example, with the Dyson Sphere, once you are done with your reputation, only thing left is Dilithum grinding. So how long until players get tired of that?
So in the end, it really doesn't have to do with large budgets, but implementation. The Devs need to create ways that keep us busy and interested in that content for a duration than keep us having us do the same thing over and over again.
I used to think like you do: Do alot of missions to earn alot.... This eventually caught me in a daily grind routine, and I became very frustrated with the game, to the point of losing interest, until I realized this:
-- It's not important --
Sure, it's nice to be on the top of the Contribution Leaderboard
Sure, it's nice to have that EC and dil for everything
Sure, its nice to have marks for all good things
But it is not important... What is important is that you enjoy the game.
For me, it became a matter of figuring out how and when to get the most of things, while doing only the missions I enjoy.
The result has become, that I only go for marks during the Mark events, and then focus entirely on the "plenty-of-marks" mechanics duing the summer and winter event.
Not only do I have a great supply of marks now, but I have also limited my true grind to about 40 days pr year, and the rest of the time I do the missions because they are fun, and interest me... It's really all it takes.
As for the Dil... How much dil do you really need? The answer: 8000 daily + a small extra supply for days where you are not online enough.
This is easily obtained by a few stf's that you enjoy, as well as 30 mins in the ground battlezone (wich is fun if you do it with online-freinds).
So who cares if you are 1000 or 2000 short one day... there is no harm in that.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Really? You people think players would go to the hassle of leaveing and rejoining fleets just to keep them "small"? Wow that would be some major dedication of those players to go through all that hassle considering informing players that they have to leave the fleet and join another to buy a higher tier ship and they groan and complain, and lets not forget leaving the fleet and joining another to use marks gets plenty of complaints.
But then again why do members need to leave a large fleet to donate marks? Maybe because projects fill so fast they do not get a chance to donate and earn some FC? Projects filling so fast they cannot earn FC and they will leave the fleet so the projects would require even less to fill? Yeah like thats going to be popular.
No large fleets do not want smaller projects, they want bigger projects so members can earn FC. members leaving just to make the projects smaller is not going to be an issue, and if a few fleets do it... They will be shooting themselves in the foot because they may get the fleet progressing cheaper but they cant afford to buy anything from it.
I am in a large T5 across the board KDF fleet and a mid size T4 Fed fleet and I want larger projects, 500k+ marks projects, million+ dilithium, A chance to be able to donate without waiting for the next project to start and hope I can donate faster than someone else who is also waiting. Prior to our KDF fleet merger we had a small KDF fleet and getting projects filled was impossible and took forever. I have seen both side of the coin and small fleets need smaller projects and large fleets need larger. Project size can work perfectly fine scaling by members and only the stupid players will try and game it.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I used to think like you do: Do alot of missions to earn alot.... This eventually caught me in a daily grind routine, and I became very frustrated with the game, to the point of losing interest, until I realized this:
-- It's not important --
Sure, it's nice to be on the top of the Contribution Leaderboard
Sure, it's nice to have that EC and dil for everything
Sure, its nice to have marks for all good things
But it is not important... What is important is that you enjoy the game.
.
here-here
this is just the point I have been tying to make all along.
I don't care if it takes our fleet one day or one year to fill a project, I don't care if we never max all our holdings, I don't care if we only have 10 active members or 1000, I don't care if I contribute and earn 1million fleet credits in one day or one fleet credit in one month, what I care about is playing the parts of the game I enjoy, sometimes alone sometimes with fleet mates or sometimes in a group of random players.
if I happen to get rewards I don't want and I can give to them the fleet then I give, if I happen to get rewards that I want for myself then I keep them, if I happen to get little or no rewards at all then that's the way it goes.
no matter what I do or what I give or don't give or how quickly or slowly the fleet progresses what matters the most of all is I have fun and lots of it.
that is why it really bugs me that when other players complain about the parts of the game I enjoy the most.
that there are too many fleet holdings, there are too many personal reps, its gonna take me too long to get enough x to buy z
the longer it takes me to reach a goal the better that just means ill have that much more fun along the way.
and I really hope that they never stop adding more and more fleet holdings and more and more personal reps, I think there a great way to keep the game interesting and give us more and more stuff to do and have great fun in the possess.
and the day when there is nothing more I can add to the fleet and nothing more I can work towards for my characters is the day when I will have no reason to play.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
In STO, we gotta grind for fleet marks, dilithium, energy credits, and any other form of ingame currency.
When game devs turn things into a grind, it takes away the enjoyment of playing and it becomes more of a job.
Everything in this game, is set up for large fleets, and thus made relatively easy for them. There is no set up to make things easier for small fleets, and thus, the grinding becomes 10 fold.
I used to do a few foundry missions to help earn EC's, but just realized they have nerfed that too. Have to do the same mission multiple times to earn the same amount of drops to sell for EC's then compared to a few months ago, only had to do a mission once or twice. Now that has become a grind.
I saw Branflakes post somewhere where he said the drops have not changed.
But, i have seen the drop in, well, drops....so to speak.
For example, 1 mission would nearly fill my inventory, then 2nd run i would only get a few drops then they would stop dropping.
Now though, first run, i am lucky to see 2 lines, or 12 items.
Another thing that requires grinding, is expertise, for fleet and personal projects.
I know the game is setup and catered for large fleets, but i have been in 2 or 3 large fleets and found there are trolls in nearly every large fleet. Thus, why i created my own fleet, at least i don't have to put up with a 12 year old child temper tantrum, (figure of speech :cool: )
So, a thought, can the devs make it we can purchase EC's and fleet marks like how we can with dilithium or zen in dil exchange?
I speak for myself when i say i am truely getting tired of grinding everyday.
There is soooooo many other things i would like to see and do in STO but don't get a chance because of this grinding PWE have enforced on us.
If you can't or don't want to make it so we can purchase EC's and FM's, can you PLEASE make it less grinding? Specially for small fleets like mine
If not less grinding, please do something to make things easier and A LOT less repetitive?
As the title of this thread says, games are meant to be fun and enjoyed, not to be grinding away at every little thing and turned into a job and made repetitive. Repetitiveness and grinding is boring.
STO is my favourite game, and i want it to stay that way!
I hope the devs see this and try to make things easier for small fleets like it is larger fleets, I;e, compare 4 or 500 people pitching in on fleet projects compared to a mere 10 people, it is hard.
I would join a large fleet, but, my past experiences tell me there are trolls in large fleets, plus, i have spent A LOT of time in doing my fleet as is T2 base(taken nearly 6 months), T1 mine(taken 3months), embassy T 0. So, ditching mine, is not an option anymore.
All the replies I just read come from brainwashed sheeple that have the gamblers syndrome. They are all making excuses to stay in. My favorite is "it is an mmorpg, so there has to be a grind". No, not really. This is a glaring problem with bad companies. PWE is notorious. I am sorry if you havenever played any other mmorpg outside of STO, but feel free to hop into PWI forums right now and start reading. I played all the games here mid game to end game. Hoping to hit that "perhaps it will change" mark. Never did. In PWI case, I played the original international version before this site was ever created (back when it was in in Taiwan, and in English and you needed fake IDs to get in...Cubizone anyone? anyone? Guess I am the only loser).... So we saw the fall of that game there, and they created it here. We moved out guild here (the guild paid out over 5,000 dollars a month to stay competitive and skip the "grind"). The nerfs, the tweaks, the errors, the support of "gooners" (cheaters that used glitches to advance and PWE doing nothing) is just all bad news for your digital space ship.
Allot of people put up with it, and that is why it exists. The only real change comes when you collectively decide enough is enough and stop supporting bad design. It will be forced to change or shut down.
Sorry but you are wrong. There are MMO's that do work on size of fleets or guilds or whatever. Take SHK for example, they started off with 10 villages, then they increased it to 15, but those last 5 villages will cost 11,12,13,14 and 15 million honor each to gain. But you were not rextricted to having to get them. A lot of people stayed with 10 villages because they were fighters and villages were always at risk. And to fight another person you would need that honor.
There is a way to make this AS easy for small fleets as it is large fleets, and there is a way to stop the leechers by imposing a time restraint on new members on how long before they can donate.
But i get it, some of you people would get your nose out of joint if they did actually make things easier for us small fleets and less grinding for us. You large fleets have it easy. About an hour of grinding each of 500 people, and you all done the project. Us small fleets months of grinding at hardcore pace, day in day out. What part of that doesnt it sink in to those thick skulls? Im talking plain english:rolleyes:
Also IF YOU READ MY COMMENTS instead of trolling, if you can read, obviously you cant because if you could, YOU WOULD KNOW MY REASONING BEHIND WHY I DONT LIKE LARGE FLEETS!
Okay, did you even read my post? I am not in a large fleet, I posted quite clearly that I am in small fleet like you, and our progress isn't that stellar either, our tier 4 starbase upgrade just started, and it had been sitting stalled for weeks.
I don't like large fleets either, which, if you read my post can be assumed from the overall text.
The game, SHK, you mentioned I am not familiar with, if it is so, then it still is the exception to the rule, not the rule itself.
Furthermore, again, are you people too lazy to read or something? cant read but can leave comments and troll without knowing whats being said. IMPOSE RESTRICTIONS on new members for a week, a month or whatever and then that would STOP THE ABUSERS. duh
The post you made about the restricting the amount of members for a certain period of time was posted after mine, so I'm not to lazy to read, you need to check when someone posted something before flying off the handle at me.
I reckon you people just don't want us advancing like large fleets.
The only ones that will care and fuss about restraints on new members joining a fleet to donate are the abusers. Leave the purchase from fleet provisions as is, just put time restraints on new members joining so they cant donate straight away.
Then, yes, scaling would work. The only ones that fuss about this are those that dont want us to progress or simply trolling. As you said, im not in your head to know you are a troll.
I am not a troll, and assuming so is quite arrogant, again, I am in small fleet as well, and we are progressing at a decent pace, but not where near as fast as the massive 500 man fleets, so really I get where you are coming from, but calling me a troll and getting angry at me without actually reading or debating what I posted, is just bad manners, cause you clearly didn't, as you mentioned nothing about any of the actual points I mentioned.
I guess this might be the nature of conversing trough text, you write a post with your own emotions, but text is by nature devoid of emotion, then someone else reads that post, with the emotion they have, which can interpret that post in a completely different manner.
Now if you want to discuss this with me in proper manner, I suggest you reread my original post, and actually debate the points I mentioned in it, instead of calling me troll, and ignoring pretty much everything I've put down.
There's an interesting philosophical question here - what are you grinding *for* ?
There is a common observation that (relatively) cheap Mk XI gear and free / mirror / C-store ships are good enough for all PVE content. Sure you might not make the DPS11K ilk but that does not preclude playing. And that's not even taking into account rep gear, which is pretty competitive in all regards save consoles. If you want a Fleet-equivalent ship there are always the Odessy, Kumari and Vesta in the C-store.
IMO the big problem (since S7) is that the Fleet Tac / Eng consoles are so much better than their non-fleet equivalents, it's ridiculous. But again, if you aren't doing PVP, so what?
Bottom line - if the grind is getting you down, don't do it. Accept that your starship is one of the (vast majority) that is not the most cutting edge ship in Starfleet, and play the stuff you enjoy. This is not a race.
All the replies I just read come from brainwashed sheeple that have the gamblers syndrome. They are all making excuses to stay in. My favorite is "it is an mmorpg, so there has to be a grind". No, not really. This is a glaring problem with bad companies. PWE is notorious. I am sorry if you havenever played any other mmorpg outside of STO, but feel free to hop into PWI forums right now and start reading. I played all the games here mid game to end game. Hoping to hit that "perhaps it will change" mark. Never did. In PWI case, I played the original international version before this site was ever created (back when it was in in Taiwan, and in English and you needed fake IDs to get in...Cubizone anyone? anyone? Guess I am the only loser).... So we saw the fall of that game there, and they created it here. We moved out guild here (the guild paid out over 5,000 dollars a month to stay competitive and skip the "grind"). The nerfs, the tweaks, the errors, the support of "gooners" (cheaters that used glitches to advance and PWE doing nothing) is just all bad news for your digital space ship.
Allot of people put up with it, and that is why it exists. The only real change comes when you collectively decide enough is enough and stop supporting bad design. It will be forced to change or shut down.
THE most intelligent thing anyone has said here, and no, im not being smart in saying that
I guess all these people on here like grinding away. Such a shame that PWE is stingy for every penny they can muster out of people instead of being for fun.
Well, i guess im going to leave at that then, Everyone on STO obviously LOVES to grind and waste their precious minutes or keep spending REAL money to buy stuff that won't get you a good return on the exchange and keep supporting PWE in their tactics to make us grind in the first place.
I guess no one else wants things to change?
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
All the replies I just read come from brainwashed sheeple that have the gamblers syndrome. They are all making excuses to stay in. My favorite is "it is an mmorpg, so there has to be a grind". No, not really. This is a glaring problem with bad companies. PWE is notorious. I am sorry if you havenever played any other mmorpg outside of STO, but feel free to hop into PWI forums right now and start reading. I played all the games here mid game to end game. Hoping to hit that "perhaps it will change" mark. Never did. In PWI case, I played the original international version before this site was ever created (back when it was in in Taiwan, and in English and you needed fake IDs to get in...Cubizone anyone? anyone? Guess I am the only loser).... So we saw the fall of that game there, and they created it here. We moved out guild here (the guild paid out over 5,000 dollars a month to stay competitive and skip the "grind"). The nerfs, the tweaks, the errors, the support of "gooners" (cheaters that used glitches to advance and PWE doing nothing) is just all bad news for your digital space ship.
Allot of people put up with it, and that is why it exists. The only real change comes when you collectively decide enough is enough and stop supporting bad design. It will be forced to change or shut down.
before you slam PWE for being notorious for grind take a good look at Wikipedia and their definition of grinding there are many games mentioned there that include what some players refer to as grind and guess what not one of them belongs to PWE, now you would think it would be logical that if PWE was that notorious for grinding they would have at least got a mention there.
and not all mmo games that have grind are rpgs try world of tanks, that's about as far from being a rpg as you can get and involves loads of grind.
now you may refer to people like me who enjoy the game as it is as brainwashed sheeple that have the gamblers syndrome but you will also see that as wiki says and I quote "Many do not enjoy it, and disparage it as a symptom of poor or uninspired game design. Others embrace it, claiming that all games feature grinding to some extent, or claim to enjoy the practice of regular grinding."
I believe it depends how you approach the game and what you want to get from it, players seem to forget there is complete freedom In sto and though I havnt played any other PWE games I am guessing they are the same.
you don't want to grind for personal rep then don't you don't want to grind for your fleet then don't if you don't like the ground missions much then don't do them same if you don't like the space based missions.
if there is only one thing you like doing say stfs for example then only do them if you only like pvps only play them.
if you like to do lots of different things then do, you can do something different every day in sto if you like.
like to play every day no problem only like to pay on Saturday no problem there ether, don't like to pay for anything then stay free to play, want to pay monthly or get ltm no worries there ether.
if you enjoy the grind as I do (though I don't think its a grind far from it) then do it, if you don't like the parts of the game that some might refer to as a grind then don't.
nothing in sto ins compulsory you can do as much or as little as you like as you want when you want.
and spend as much money as you like or none at all, as long as your having fun then your playing the game as it should be played.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I see these threads and wonder if some of these people have even heard of the Foundry. If you want new content and you want to enjoy a good story instead of grinding, go there.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
In STO, we gotta grind for fleet marks, dilithium, energy credits, and any other form of ingame currency.
To acquire :
1. Fleet Marks : Zen -> Keys -> EC -> [TheTradingChannel] -> FleetMark @ 1 FM per 4000 EC (average price - can be cheaper based on haggling skill)
2. Dilithium : Zen -> Dili Exchange
3. Energy Credits : Zen -> Keys -> Exchange/or bulk sell in [TradingChannel] -> EC
What is this grinding you are talking about. There is no grinding. Just good old trading skill - and can be done quite fast.
To acquire :
1. Fleet Marks : Zen -> Keys -> EC -> [TheTradingChannel] -> FleetMark @ 1 FM per 4000 EC (average price - can be cheaper based on haggling skill)
2. Dilithium : Zen -> Dili Exchange
3. Energy Credits : Zen -> Keys -> Exchange/or bulk sell in [TradingChannel] -> EC
What is this grinding you are talking about. There is no grinding. Just good old trading skill - and can be done quite fast.
I see these threads and wonder if some of these people have even heard of the Foundry. If you want new content and you want to enjoy a good story instead of grinding, go there.
Yeah, you know the thing is, it's Cryptic's responsibility to keep us entertained. :rolleyes:
To acquire :
1. Fleet Marks : Zen -> Keys -> EC -> [TheTradingChannel] -> FleetMark @ 1 FM per 4000 EC (average price - can be cheaper based on haggling skill)
2. Dilithium : Zen -> Dili Exchange
3. Energy Credits : Zen -> Keys -> Exchange/or bulk sell in [TradingChannel] -> EC
What is this grinding you are talking about. There is no grinding. Just good old trading skill - and can be done quite fast.
Rather grind than pay millions of EC for someone to get free Fleet Credits. Especially when it's incredibily easy to get Fleet Marks on Defera or thousands of Fleet Marks with some group using the NWS Exploit Farming.
Coming from someone who really does need fleet marks for my small fleet.
True, true. But the way Cryptic and Bioware did it, isn't the smart way of implementing grind. Especially when you compare it against first gen MMOs like UO and EQ.
For an example, with EQ the grind was built into the leveling. So players were more focused on simply getting to the next level. And along the way you had a feeling of accomplishment when you hit that new level and unlocked new abilities. So that delayed you hitting endgame, where you had to conquer the new dungeon and eventually begin the camp for the new expansion drop items. But with STO and TOR's grinding, it's just obvious endgame busywork by having you play the same thing over and over with no real drive except to "complete this".
That's why people are grumbling, we are just grinding away to complete our reputation (which isn't really hard) and build our starbases. But what does that Starbase get us? That's the thing, the Starbase and repeating the same content we had for years, players lose their drive. And Cryptic has a very obvious problem with making new content that has staying power.
For example, with the Dyson Sphere, once you are done with your reputation, only thing left is Dilithum grinding. So how long until players get tired of that?
So in the end, it really doesn't have to do with large budgets, but implementation. The Devs need to create ways that keep us busy and interested in that content for a duration than keep us having us do the same thing over and over again.
Mining ore for Ingots >_> MOAR INGOTS
God the early days of UO
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
So in the end, it really doesn't have to do with large budgets, but implementation. The Devs need to create ways that keep us busy and interested in that content for a duration than keep us having us do the same thing over and over again.
so it sounds like your basic answer to grinding is for cryptic to introduce new content every day, because if you did something today you wouldn't want to do it again tomorrow.
or maybe once a week or once a month or however long it takes you to tire of that particular thing and never want to do it again.
boy if everyone had looked at games in that way the computer games industry would have never made it off the ground.
with games like space invaders, packman, frogger, Mario brothers and many others who would want to play any of those games over and over and over again.
all the games that were the foundation on which the computer games industry started out on.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
@bobbydazzlers...Not sure why I cant qoute your posts... Any ways, here is copy and paste: before you slam PWE for being notorious for grind take a good look at Wikipedia and their definition of grinding there are many games mentioned there that include what some players refer to as grind and guess what not one of them belongs to PWE, now you would think it would be logical that if PWE was that notorious for grinding they would have at least got a mention there.
and not all mmo games that have grind are rpgs try world of tanks, that's about as far from being a rpg as you can get and involves loads of grind.
now you may refer to people like me who enjoy the game as it is as brainwashed sheeple that have the gamblers syndrome but you will also see that as wiki says and I quote "Many do not enjoy it, and disparage it as a symptom of poor or uninspired game design. Others embrace it, claiming that all games feature grinding to some extent, or claim to enjoy the practice of regular grinding."
I believe it depends how you approach the game and what you want to get from it, players seem to forget there is complete freedom In sto and though I havnt played any other PWE games I am guessing they are the same.
you don't want to grind for personal rep then don't you don't want to grind for your fleet then don't if you don't like the ground missions much then don't do them same if you don't like the space based missions.
if there is only one thing you like doing say stfs for example then only do them if you only like pvps only play them.
if you like to do lots of different things then do, you can do something different every day in sto if you like.
like to play every day no problem only like to pay on Saturday no problem there ether, don't like to pay for anything then stay free to play, want to pay monthly or get ltm no worries there ether.
if you enjoy the grind as I do (though I don't think its a grind far from it) then do it, if you don't like the parts of the game that some might refer to as a grind then don't.
nothing in sto ins compulsory you can do as much or as little as you like as you want when you want.
and spend as much money as you like or none at all, as long as your having fun then your playing the game as it should be played.
1) MY entire thread had nothing to do with "PWE and the Grind"...not once do I even mention a single measurement of time played vs grind... And going to wikipedia for grind also gets a sexy lap dance LOL Anddddd that negates the rest of your wall of none sense.
Including "the doing something different everyday" LOL exactly 2 threads below this is a huge discussion about pointless end game in infinite space where they "did everything" to do and bored of repeat bosses. I can give you 3 titles of games that do this correctly. But I like when people explore and discover games / community on their own. Enjoy your PWE hell and nonsensical list of excuses to rest a sheeple consumer.
To acquire :
1. Fleet Marks : Zen -> Keys -> EC -> [TheTradingChannel] -> FleetMark @ 1 FM per 4000 EC (average price - can be cheaper based on haggling skill)
2. Dilithium : Zen -> Dili Exchange
3. Energy Credits : Zen -> Keys -> Exchange/or bulk sell in [TradingChannel] -> EC
What is this grinding you are talking about. There is no grinding. Just good old trading skill - and can be done quite fast.
Plus that is the ****tiest system in existance. This is also a trademark PWE problem. Forsaken world economy plays the same, as well as PWI , jade Dynasty, etc... The concept : Hope to holy hell there are enough subscribers all doing high end content to put things on the marker at fair prices. The momment the slightest balance tip happens, the prices go out the window, leaving a 2 year grind for non payers, or huge sums of real life cash to play this economy, or have a full paying high end fleet that farms it on their own... The company is not stupid, they know where the cash is. The only balancing measure is to RIP OFF THE PAYING COMMUNITY Hence the thousands of threads since F2P saying: "I just opened 100000 lock boxes and got 1 item. There goes my bank account". Or they did things the F2P way, and there goes the onths of their lives and any hope to want to continue playing for months only to be ripped off AGAIN.
Suckers that pay.
Suckers that F2P. Kind of said when a publisher hurts BOTH corwds in one mechanic XD And of course, that one dude that pipes up: "I got a purple on the first try" *confeti*
I see these threads and wonder if some of these people have even heard of the Foundry. If you want new content and you want to enjoy a good story instead of grinding, go there.
Cant solve a broken problem with broken solutions. The foundey has gone through patches over the years for being broke and clunky.
The last one I did, you enter in a door. Take two steps, exit the back door and showered in goods (ABUSED) so it got nerfed and taken off line (and cheaters got to keep the accounts).
The dev tools still the best. It is like the "player housing" argument. It serves a few hyper fan bois that seriously think the world is real, while the rest of us finish building, look around and realize it serves as nothing but time waster. No one around that wants to come in and cyber me bad.
And player made content is not a solution to any of the problems stated here XD
if the process of playing the game isn't fun to you, then why play at all?
The grind / reputation system / fleet systems are only reward mechanics if you LIKE to play the game a lot anyway.
If you just play to get those rewards (to stay competitive or what?), while not having fun doing so... then why are you playing it at all?
Brake the daily routine, play something else for 2 - 4 Weeks,
see if you still care to log into STO after that. (I didn't...)
Season 8 came along... and i spend one afternoon, which ended in pure boredom.
Didn't take another look since then :-/
I really want to like this game, i want this game to be good. But it just isn't and my Star Trek fanboy glasses don't do it anymore either.
Personally when i play STO these day, i get more angry about the lack of quality, the lack of bug fixing and the cookie cutter gameplay and non-existant story telling that i am getting more angry at the game than being entertained by it. Not because i hate it, but because it could be a really good game, instead of this mess of half complete Systems.
From a Star Trek perspective this game isn't doing it for me anymore... it is a F2P themepark ride and nothing more.
From a Gamer perspective, i get more entertainment playing other games by now.
And honestly while Star Trek is slowly fading away... (JJ Movies only getting released so often and aren't exactly what i'm a Fan of either, STO is concentrating more and more on its worst properties, while ignoring the Systems that are awesome and unique to it)...
in the same time MARVEL creped up on me, i loved the Iron Man movies, Thor, Avengers... a whole bunch of Movies are out by now and they have a aggressive release schedule and a whole Universe behind it
...and then that "Marvel Heroes" game came along... suddenly i see Patchnotes that are a mile long again, have communication with the Devs, that are active on the Forums, i report a bug, get a reply from a Dev, and it gets FIXED!
Devs are asking for feedback, Updates they would call Seasons over here are released monthly over there (if not weekly)... literally everything i remember from STOs early days that made me love STO is thrown in my face with that other game...
the sad realization is: STO is already in maintenance mode...
there is nobody left working on the Live Servers...
one big update every 6 Months isn't keeping me entertained and the worst thing a game can do to a gamer, is not be ENTERTAINING over such large durations.
STO needs something every Month, if not every WEEK that makes me WANT to log in and check out the new stuff.
And sorry... Summer/Winter - Event Online is not the game i signed up for either.
1) MY entire thread had nothing to do with "PWE and the Grind"...not once do I even mention a single measurement of time played vs grind... And going to wikipedia for grind also gets a sexy lap dance LOL Anddddd that negates the rest of your wall of none sense.
Including "the doing something different everyday" LOL exactly 2 threads below this is a huge discussion about pointless end game in infinite space where they "did everything" to do and bored of repeat bosses. I can give you 3 titles of games that do this correctly. But I like when people explore and discover games / community on their own. Enjoy your PWE hell and nonsensical list of excuses to rest a sheeple consumer.
from your previous post
Originally Posted by nanb0554
My favorite is "it is an mmorpg, so there has to be a grind". No, not really. This is a glaring problem with bad companies. PWE is notorious. I am sorry if you have never played any other mmorpg outside of STO,
and in case you didn't notice the main title of the thread "Grinding is work, Games are meant to be fun " this is a huge discussion about grinding
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
if the process of playing the game isn't fun to you, then why play at all?
The grind / reputation system / fleet systems are only reward mechanics if you LIKE to play the game a lot anyway.
If you just play to get those rewards (to stay competitive or what?), while not having fun doing so... then why are you playing it at all?
Brake the daily routine, play something else for 2 - 4 Weeks,
see if you still care to log into STO after that. (I didn't...)
Season 8 came along... and i spend one afternoon, which ended in pure boredom.
Didn't take another look since then :-/
I really want to like this game, i want this game to be good. But it just isn't and my Star Trek fanboy glasses don't do it anymore either.
Personally when i play STO these day, i get more angry about the lack of quality, the lack of bug fixing and the cookie cutter gameplay and non-existant story telling that i am getting more angry at the game than being entertained by it. Not because i hate it, but because it could be a really good game, instead of this mess of half complete Systems.
From a Star Trek perspective this game isn't doing it for me anymore... it is a F2P themepark ride and nothing more.
From a Gamer perspective, i get more entertainment playing other games by now.
And honestly while Star Trek is slowly fading away... (JJ Movies only getting released so often and aren't exactly what i'm a Fan of either, STO is concentrating more and more on its worst properties, while ignoring the Systems that are awesome and unique to it)...
in the same time MARVEL creped up on me, i loved the Iron Man movies, Thor, Avengers... a whole bunch of Movies are out by now and they have a aggressive release schedule and a whole Universe behind it
...and then that "Marvel Heroes" game came along... suddenly i see Patchnotes that are a mile long again, have communication with the Devs, that are active on the Forums, i report a bug, get a reply from a Dev, and it gets FIXED!
Devs are asking for feedback, Updates they would call Seasons over here are released monthly over there (if not weekly)... literally everything i remember from STOs early days that made me love STO is thrown in my face with that other game...
the sad realization is: STO is already in maintenance mode...
there is nobody left working on the Live Servers...
one big update every 6 Months isn't keeping me entertained and the worst thing a game can do to a gamer, is not be ENTERTAINING over such large durations.
STO needs something every Month, if not every WEEK that makes me WANT to log in and check out the new stuff.
And sorry... Summer/Winter - Event Online is not the game i signed up for either.
The worst part of it is, you simply don't need any of the gear you grind months for. You can do just find with uncommon/rare gear you get from missions and drops. Only reason to grind for stuff is the Pokemon factor.
That is what I do not get. I certainly do not care to grind for accolades unless they come with perks like the diplomatic ones do. To me it is like the gamer score on xbox live who cares? As far as getting fleet marks, Romulan marks, Dyson marks The devs are just adding too much grind to the end game. I don't want to grind, so that content does not interest me.
A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
if the process of playing the game isn't fun to you, then why play at all?
The grind / reputation system / fleet systems are only reward mechanics if you LIKE to play the game a lot anyway.
If you just play to get those rewards (to stay competitive or what?), while not having fun doing so... then why are you playing it at all?
Brake the daily routine, play something else for 2 - 4 Weeks,
see if you still care to log into STO after that. (I didn't...)
Season 8 came along... and i spend one afternoon, which ended in pure boredom.
Didn't take another look since then :-/
I really want to like this game, i want this game to be good. But it just isn't and my Star Trek fanboy glasses don't do it anymore either.
Personally when i play STO these day, i get more angry about the lack of quality, the lack of bug fixing and the cookie cutter gameplay and non-existant story telling that i am getting more angry at the game than being entertained by it. Not because i hate it, but because it could be a really good game, instead of this mess of half complete Systems.
From a Star Trek perspective this game isn't doing it for me anymore... it is a F2P themepark ride and nothing more.
From a Gamer perspective, i get more entertainment playing other games by now.
And honestly while Star Trek is slowly fading away... (JJ Movies only getting released so often and aren't exactly what i'm a Fan of either, STO is concentrating more and more on its worst properties, while ignoring the Systems that are awesome and unique to it)...
in the same time MARVEL creped up on me, i loved the Iron Man movies, Thor, Avengers... a whole bunch of Movies are out by now and they have a aggressive release schedule and a whole Universe behind it
...and then that "Marvel Heroes" game came along... suddenly i see Patchnotes that are a mile long again, have communication with the Devs, that are active on the Forums, i report a bug, get a reply from a Dev, and it gets FIXED!
Devs are asking for feedback, Updates they would call Seasons over here are released monthly over there (if not weekly)... literally everything i remember from STOs early days that made me love STO is thrown in my face with that other game...
the sad realization is: STO is already in maintenance mode...
there is nobody left working on the Live Servers...
one big update every 6 Months isn't keeping me entertained and the worst thing a game can do to a gamer, is not be ENTERTAINING over such large durations.
STO needs something every Month, if not every WEEK that makes me WANT to log in and check out the new stuff.
And sorry... Summer/Winter - Event Online is not the game i signed up for either.
/rant
you must be well peeved that you paid for lifetime sub then, as must rickeyredshirt who seems to agree with you.
personally I played as a free player for well over a year before I decided that the game was worth the investment of a lifetime sub and I think I got a real bargain.
and before and since I payed my lifetime sub I think the game just gets better and better with every new season they release, and I especially enjoy the summer and winter specials they are a nice break from the regular gameplay and after spending my whole time playing them till they end I am well refreshed and ready to go back to my regular dutys of having fun with the regular stuff.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
The Fleet Holdings system neither caters to, nor favors, large Fleets. The system is neutral. As reathyr pointed out, it's reality that favors large Fleets. 500 people will always have 10 times the manpower of 50.
The only proposals that have been made in this thread (which have been made before) are blatantly unfair.
One consequence of scaling requirements by members is if one Fleet has 10 players with 10 alts each, and another Fleet only has 10 players, then the former would have to do 10 times as much work simply because they have alts.
Another consequence would be essentially forcing every Fleet to do activity checks, and kicking out anyone who hasn't been active recently. After all, if they aren't playing daily they're actively hampering progression.
Even if neither of the above problems occur, we have the innate issue that 500 people putting in 10 hours would be equal to 10 people putting in 10 hours. The former group's work would be worth 2% of the latter's. Worse yet, it's 500 people being penalized for 10 people's benefit.
Saying "Large Fleets have it easier" is just sour grapes - the real problem is unequal distribution of work. A better solution (which has again been proposed before) is to scale resource requirements by time: Projects need a time/cost slider.
A project that requires 10000 units of resources will be completed 10 times faster than a project that requires 1000 units of resources. The largest Fleets select the shortest projects, the smallest Fleets select the longest projects.
What this means is that when 100 players do 10 hours of work each for a project, 10 players can also just need to do 10 hours of work each for a project. The 100 players (with 1000 hours) will obviously progress faster (by launching 10 times as many projects) than the 10 players (with 100 hours), but the grind will be the same on a per-player basis.
Comments
No, it's not what i meant. I mean, you can have as many as you like join, as it is now, but put a time restraint on them for how long it is before they can actually donate to projects, to stop the abusers. Like i said, they implemented a time restraint of 2 weeks when a new member joins a fleet and gets ranked up to fleet admiral, they are classed as provisional or something. Why cant they do something like that to prevent abusers?
True, true. But the way Cryptic and Bioware did it, isn't the smart way of implementing grind. Especially when you compare it against first gen MMOs like UO and EQ.
For an example, with EQ the grind was built into the leveling. So players were more focused on simply getting to the next level. And along the way you had a feeling of accomplishment when you hit that new level and unlocked new abilities. So that delayed you hitting endgame, where you had to conquer the new dungeon and eventually begin the camp for the new expansion drop items. But with STO and TOR's grinding, it's just obvious endgame busywork by having you play the same thing over and over with no real drive except to "complete this".
That's why people are grumbling, we are just grinding away to complete our reputation (which isn't really hard) and build our starbases. But what does that Starbase get us? That's the thing, the Starbase and repeating the same content we had for years, players lose their drive. And Cryptic has a very obvious problem with making new content that has staying power.
For example, with the Dyson Sphere, once you are done with your reputation, only thing left is Dilithum grinding. So how long until players get tired of that?
So in the end, it really doesn't have to do with large budgets, but implementation. The Devs need to create ways that keep us busy and interested in that content for a duration than keep us having us do the same thing over and over again.
I used to think like you do: Do alot of missions to earn alot.... This eventually caught me in a daily grind routine, and I became very frustrated with the game, to the point of losing interest, until I realized this:
-- It's not important --
Sure, it's nice to be on the top of the Contribution Leaderboard
Sure, it's nice to have that EC and dil for everything
Sure, its nice to have marks for all good things
But it is not important... What is important is that you enjoy the game.
For me, it became a matter of figuring out how and when to get the most of things, while doing only the missions I enjoy.
The result has become, that I only go for marks during the Mark events, and then focus entirely on the "plenty-of-marks" mechanics duing the summer and winter event.
Not only do I have a great supply of marks now, but I have also limited my true grind to about 40 days pr year, and the rest of the time I do the missions because they are fun, and interest me... It's really all it takes.
As for the Dil... How much dil do you really need? The answer: 8000 daily + a small extra supply for days where you are not online enough.
This is easily obtained by a few stf's that you enjoy, as well as 30 mins in the ground battlezone (wich is fun if you do it with online-freinds).
So who cares if you are 1000 or 2000 short one day... there is no harm in that.
But then again why do members need to leave a large fleet to donate marks? Maybe because projects fill so fast they do not get a chance to donate and earn some FC? Projects filling so fast they cannot earn FC and they will leave the fleet so the projects would require even less to fill? Yeah like thats going to be popular.
No large fleets do not want smaller projects, they want bigger projects so members can earn FC. members leaving just to make the projects smaller is not going to be an issue, and if a few fleets do it... They will be shooting themselves in the foot because they may get the fleet progressing cheaper but they cant afford to buy anything from it.
I am in a large T5 across the board KDF fleet and a mid size T4 Fed fleet and I want larger projects, 500k+ marks projects, million+ dilithium, A chance to be able to donate without waiting for the next project to start and hope I can donate faster than someone else who is also waiting. Prior to our KDF fleet merger we had a small KDF fleet and getting projects filled was impossible and took forever. I have seen both side of the coin and small fleets need smaller projects and large fleets need larger. Project size can work perfectly fine scaling by members and only the stupid players will try and game it.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
here-here
this is just the point I have been tying to make all along.
I don't care if it takes our fleet one day or one year to fill a project, I don't care if we never max all our holdings, I don't care if we only have 10 active members or 1000, I don't care if I contribute and earn 1million fleet credits in one day or one fleet credit in one month, what I care about is playing the parts of the game I enjoy, sometimes alone sometimes with fleet mates or sometimes in a group of random players.
if I happen to get rewards I don't want and I can give to them the fleet then I give, if I happen to get rewards that I want for myself then I keep them, if I happen to get little or no rewards at all then that's the way it goes.
no matter what I do or what I give or don't give or how quickly or slowly the fleet progresses what matters the most of all is I have fun and lots of it.
that is why it really bugs me that when other players complain about the parts of the game I enjoy the most.
that there are too many fleet holdings, there are too many personal reps, its gonna take me too long to get enough x to buy z
the longer it takes me to reach a goal the better that just means ill have that much more fun along the way.
and I really hope that they never stop adding more and more fleet holdings and more and more personal reps, I think there a great way to keep the game interesting and give us more and more stuff to do and have great fun in the possess.
and the day when there is nothing more I can add to the fleet and nothing more I can work towards for my characters is the day when I will have no reason to play.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
All the replies I just read come from brainwashed sheeple that have the gamblers syndrome. They are all making excuses to stay in. My favorite is "it is an mmorpg, so there has to be a grind". No, not really. This is a glaring problem with bad companies. PWE is notorious. I am sorry if you havenever played any other mmorpg outside of STO, but feel free to hop into PWI forums right now and start reading. I played all the games here mid game to end game. Hoping to hit that "perhaps it will change" mark. Never did. In PWI case, I played the original international version before this site was ever created (back when it was in in Taiwan, and in English and you needed fake IDs to get in...Cubizone anyone? anyone? Guess I am the only loser).... So we saw the fall of that game there, and they created it here. We moved out guild here (the guild paid out over 5,000 dollars a month to stay competitive and skip the "grind"). The nerfs, the tweaks, the errors, the support of "gooners" (cheaters that used glitches to advance and PWE doing nothing) is just all bad news for your digital space ship.
Allot of people put up with it, and that is why it exists. The only real change comes when you collectively decide enough is enough and stop supporting bad design. It will be forced to change or shut down.
I don't like large fleets either, which, if you read my post can be assumed from the overall text.
The game, SHK, you mentioned I am not familiar with, if it is so, then it still is the exception to the rule, not the rule itself.
The post you made about the restricting the amount of members for a certain period of time was posted after mine, so I'm not to lazy to read, you need to check when someone posted something before flying off the handle at me.
I am not a troll, and assuming so is quite arrogant, again, I am in small fleet as well, and we are progressing at a decent pace, but not where near as fast as the massive 500 man fleets, so really I get where you are coming from, but calling me a troll and getting angry at me without actually reading or debating what I posted, is just bad manners, cause you clearly didn't, as you mentioned nothing about any of the actual points I mentioned.
I guess this might be the nature of conversing trough text, you write a post with your own emotions, but text is by nature devoid of emotion, then someone else reads that post, with the emotion they have, which can interpret that post in a completely different manner.
Now if you want to discuss this with me in proper manner, I suggest you reread my original post, and actually debate the points I mentioned in it, instead of calling me troll, and ignoring pretty much everything I've put down.
There is a common observation that (relatively) cheap Mk XI gear and free / mirror / C-store ships are good enough for all PVE content. Sure you might not make the DPS11K ilk but that does not preclude playing. And that's not even taking into account rep gear, which is pretty competitive in all regards save consoles. If you want a Fleet-equivalent ship there are always the Odessy, Kumari and Vesta in the C-store.
IMO the big problem (since S7) is that the Fleet Tac / Eng consoles are so much better than their non-fleet equivalents, it's ridiculous. But again, if you aren't doing PVP, so what?
Bottom line - if the grind is getting you down, don't do it. Accept that your starship is one of the (vast majority) that is not the most cutting edge ship in Starfleet, and play the stuff you enjoy. This is not a race.
THE most intelligent thing anyone has said here, and no, im not being smart in saying that
I guess all these people on here like grinding away. Such a shame that PWE is stingy for every penny they can muster out of people instead of being for fun.
Well, i guess im going to leave at that then, Everyone on STO obviously LOVES to grind and waste their precious minutes or keep spending REAL money to buy stuff that won't get you a good return on the exchange and keep supporting PWE in their tactics to make us grind in the first place.
I guess no one else wants things to change?
before you slam PWE for being notorious for grind take a good look at Wikipedia and their definition of grinding there are many games mentioned there that include what some players refer to as grind and guess what not one of them belongs to PWE, now you would think it would be logical that if PWE was that notorious for grinding they would have at least got a mention there.
and not all mmo games that have grind are rpgs try world of tanks, that's about as far from being a rpg as you can get and involves loads of grind.
now you may refer to people like me who enjoy the game as it is as brainwashed sheeple that have the gamblers syndrome but you will also see that as wiki says and I quote "Many do not enjoy it, and disparage it as a symptom of poor or uninspired game design. Others embrace it, claiming that all games feature grinding to some extent, or claim to enjoy the practice of regular grinding."
I believe it depends how you approach the game and what you want to get from it, players seem to forget there is complete freedom In sto and though I havnt played any other PWE games I am guessing they are the same.
you don't want to grind for personal rep then don't you don't want to grind for your fleet then don't if you don't like the ground missions much then don't do them same if you don't like the space based missions.
if there is only one thing you like doing say stfs for example then only do them if you only like pvps only play them.
if you like to do lots of different things then do, you can do something different every day in sto if you like.
like to play every day no problem only like to pay on Saturday no problem there ether, don't like to pay for anything then stay free to play, want to pay monthly or get ltm no worries there ether.
if you enjoy the grind as I do (though I don't think its a grind far from it) then do it, if you don't like the parts of the game that some might refer to as a grind then don't.
nothing in sto ins compulsory you can do as much or as little as you like as you want when you want.
and spend as much money as you like or none at all, as long as your having fun then your playing the game as it should be played.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
To acquire :
1. Fleet Marks : Zen -> Keys -> EC -> [TheTradingChannel] -> FleetMark @ 1 FM per 4000 EC (average price - can be cheaper based on haggling skill)
2. Dilithium : Zen -> Dili Exchange
3. Energy Credits : Zen -> Keys -> Exchange/or bulk sell in [TradingChannel] -> EC
What is this grinding you are talking about. There is no grinding. Just good old trading skill - and can be done quite fast.
This assumes you have large supplies of zen...
Yeah, you know the thing is, it's Cryptic's responsibility to keep us entertained. :rolleyes:
Rather grind than pay millions of EC for someone to get free Fleet Credits. Especially when it's incredibily easy to get Fleet Marks on Defera or thousands of Fleet Marks with some group using the NWS Exploit Farming.
Coming from someone who really does need fleet marks for my small fleet.
Mining ore for Ingots >_> MOAR INGOTS
God the early days of UO
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
so it sounds like your basic answer to grinding is for cryptic to introduce new content every day, because if you did something today you wouldn't want to do it again tomorrow.
or maybe once a week or once a month or however long it takes you to tire of that particular thing and never want to do it again.
boy if everyone had looked at games in that way the computer games industry would have never made it off the ground.
with games like space invaders, packman, frogger, Mario brothers and many others who would want to play any of those games over and over and over again.
all the games that were the foundation on which the computer games industry started out on.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
before you slam PWE for being notorious for grind take a good look at Wikipedia and their definition of grinding there are many games mentioned there that include what some players refer to as grind and guess what not one of them belongs to PWE, now you would think it would be logical that if PWE was that notorious for grinding they would have at least got a mention there.
and not all mmo games that have grind are rpgs try world of tanks, that's about as far from being a rpg as you can get and involves loads of grind.
now you may refer to people like me who enjoy the game as it is as brainwashed sheeple that have the gamblers syndrome but you will also see that as wiki says and I quote "Many do not enjoy it, and disparage it as a symptom of poor or uninspired game design. Others embrace it, claiming that all games feature grinding to some extent, or claim to enjoy the practice of regular grinding."
I believe it depends how you approach the game and what you want to get from it, players seem to forget there is complete freedom In sto and though I havnt played any other PWE games I am guessing they are the same.
you don't want to grind for personal rep then don't you don't want to grind for your fleet then don't if you don't like the ground missions much then don't do them same if you don't like the space based missions.
if there is only one thing you like doing say stfs for example then only do them if you only like pvps only play them.
if you like to do lots of different things then do, you can do something different every day in sto if you like.
like to play every day no problem only like to pay on Saturday no problem there ether, don't like to pay for anything then stay free to play, want to pay monthly or get ltm no worries there ether.
if you enjoy the grind as I do (though I don't think its a grind far from it) then do it, if you don't like the parts of the game that some might refer to as a grind then don't.
nothing in sto ins compulsory you can do as much or as little as you like as you want when you want.
and spend as much money as you like or none at all, as long as your having fun then your playing the game as it should be played.
1) MY entire thread had nothing to do with "PWE and the Grind"...not once do I even mention a single measurement of time played vs grind... And going to wikipedia for grind also gets a sexy lap dance LOL Anddddd that negates the rest of your wall of none sense.
Including "the doing something different everyday" LOL exactly 2 threads below this is a huge discussion about pointless end game in infinite space where they "did everything" to do and bored of repeat bosses. I can give you 3 titles of games that do this correctly. But I like when people explore and discover games / community on their own. Enjoy your PWE hell and nonsensical list of excuses to rest a sheeple consumer.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=918481
and
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=938251
Plus that is the ****tiest system in existance. This is also a trademark PWE problem. Forsaken world economy plays the same, as well as PWI , jade Dynasty, etc... The concept : Hope to holy hell there are enough subscribers all doing high end content to put things on the marker at fair prices. The momment the slightest balance tip happens, the prices go out the window, leaving a 2 year grind for non payers, or huge sums of real life cash to play this economy, or have a full paying high end fleet that farms it on their own... The company is not stupid, they know where the cash is. The only balancing measure is to RIP OFF THE PAYING COMMUNITY Hence the thousands of threads since F2P saying: "I just opened 100000 lock boxes and got 1 item. There goes my bank account". Or they did things the F2P way, and there goes the onths of their lives and any hope to want to continue playing for months only to be ripped off AGAIN.
Suckers that pay.
Suckers that F2P. Kind of said when a publisher hurts BOTH corwds in one mechanic XD And of course, that one dude that pipes up: "I got a purple on the first try" *confeti*
Cant solve a broken problem with broken solutions. The foundey has gone through patches over the years for being broke and clunky.
The last one I did, you enter in a door. Take two steps, exit the back door and showered in goods (ABUSED) so it got nerfed and taken off line (and cheaters got to keep the accounts).
The dev tools still the best. It is like the "player housing" argument. It serves a few hyper fan bois that seriously think the world is real, while the rest of us finish building, look around and realize it serves as nothing but time waster. No one around that wants to come in and cyber me bad.
And player made content is not a solution to any of the problems stated here XD
if the process of playing the game isn't fun to you, then why play at all?
The grind / reputation system / fleet systems are only reward mechanics if you LIKE to play the game a lot anyway.
If you just play to get those rewards (to stay competitive or what?), while not having fun doing so... then why are you playing it at all?
Brake the daily routine, play something else for 2 - 4 Weeks,
see if you still care to log into STO after that. (I didn't...)
Season 8 came along... and i spend one afternoon, which ended in pure boredom.
Didn't take another look since then :-/
I really want to like this game, i want this game to be good. But it just isn't and my Star Trek fanboy glasses don't do it anymore either.
Personally when i play STO these day, i get more angry about the lack of quality, the lack of bug fixing and the cookie cutter gameplay and non-existant story telling that i am getting more angry at the game than being entertained by it. Not because i hate it, but because it could be a really good game, instead of this mess of half complete Systems.
From a Star Trek perspective this game isn't doing it for me anymore... it is a F2P themepark ride and nothing more.
From a Gamer perspective, i get more entertainment playing other games by now.
And honestly while Star Trek is slowly fading away... (JJ Movies only getting released so often and aren't exactly what i'm a Fan of either, STO is concentrating more and more on its worst properties, while ignoring the Systems that are awesome and unique to it)...
in the same time MARVEL creped up on me, i loved the Iron Man movies, Thor, Avengers... a whole bunch of Movies are out by now and they have a aggressive release schedule and a whole Universe behind it
...and then that "Marvel Heroes" game came along... suddenly i see Patchnotes that are a mile long again, have communication with the Devs, that are active on the Forums, i report a bug, get a reply from a Dev, and it gets FIXED!
Devs are asking for feedback, Updates they would call Seasons over here are released monthly over there (if not weekly)... literally everything i remember from STOs early days that made me love STO is thrown in my face with that other game...
the sad realization is: STO is already in maintenance mode...
there is nobody left working on the Live Servers...
one big update every 6 Months isn't keeping me entertained and the worst thing a game can do to a gamer, is not be ENTERTAINING over such large durations.
STO needs something every Month, if not every WEEK that makes me WANT to log in and check out the new stuff.
And sorry... Summer/Winter - Event Online is not the game i signed up for either.
/rant
from your previous post
Originally Posted by nanb0554
My favorite is "it is an mmorpg, so there has to be a grind". No, not really. This is a glaring problem with bad companies. PWE is notorious. I am sorry if you have never played any other mmorpg outside of STO,
and in case you didn't notice the main title of the thread "Grinding is work, Games are meant to be fun " this is a huge discussion about grinding
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Well said!
Posting history considered, I'm pretty sure that slash was a mistake.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
That is what I do not get. I certainly do not care to grind for accolades unless they come with perks like the diplomatic ones do. To me it is like the gamer score on xbox live who cares? As far as getting fleet marks, Romulan marks, Dyson marks The devs are just adding too much grind to the end game. I don't want to grind, so that content does not interest me.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
I think most of us were around then and remember. Bad analogy. "If you think Milosevic was bad you should have seen what Hitler did in the 1940s."
you must be well peeved that you paid for lifetime sub then, as must rickeyredshirt who seems to agree with you.
personally I played as a free player for well over a year before I decided that the game was worth the investment of a lifetime sub and I think I got a real bargain.
and before and since I payed my lifetime sub I think the game just gets better and better with every new season they release, and I especially enjoy the summer and winter specials they are a nice break from the regular gameplay and after spending my whole time playing them till they end I am well refreshed and ready to go back to my regular dutys of having fun with the regular stuff.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
The Fleet Holdings system neither caters to, nor favors, large Fleets. The system is neutral. As reathyr pointed out, it's reality that favors large Fleets. 500 people will always have 10 times the manpower of 50.
The only proposals that have been made in this thread (which have been made before) are blatantly unfair.
One consequence of scaling requirements by members is if one Fleet has 10 players with 10 alts each, and another Fleet only has 10 players, then the former would have to do 10 times as much work simply because they have alts.
Another consequence would be essentially forcing every Fleet to do activity checks, and kicking out anyone who hasn't been active recently. After all, if they aren't playing daily they're actively hampering progression.
Even if neither of the above problems occur, we have the innate issue that 500 people putting in 10 hours would be equal to 10 people putting in 10 hours. The former group's work would be worth 2% of the latter's. Worse yet, it's 500 people being penalized for 10 people's benefit.
Saying "Large Fleets have it easier" is just sour grapes - the real problem is unequal distribution of work. A better solution (which has again been proposed before) is to scale resource requirements by time: Projects need a time/cost slider.
A project that requires 10000 units of resources will be completed 10 times faster than a project that requires 1000 units of resources. The largest Fleets select the shortest projects, the smallest Fleets select the longest projects.
What this means is that when 100 players do 10 hours of work each for a project, 10 players can also just need to do 10 hours of work each for a project. The 100 players (with 1000 hours) will obviously progress faster (by launching 10 times as many projects) than the 10 players (with 100 hours), but the grind will be the same on a per-player basis.