Realistically, STO doesn't need large fleets, because the game itself doesn't demand it. This isn't like Fantasy MMOs where large fleets are needed to do dungeon raids, or in some MMOs where numbers are power (especially with PvP). STO is best run with small fleets of friends.
I agree. If this game was anything like EVE Online, then yeah, you would need a large a fleet as the content is there to support it.
STO need large fleets? i dont think so. I don't PvP at all. I have once or twice to try it, and it didnt appeal to me. I've always been a more PvE and a bit of a lone gunner. Specially with leechers in this game. I don't play with leechers just so they get loot for doin sweet fa. Soon as i spot one, i quit the mission, penalty or no penalty.
But yeah, i think the fleet system could do with......an overhaul
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
I agree this game was more fun before the Rep system only problem was you could trade EDC or Rare borg XX or list on the Exchange.
used to sell off a lot of borg mk x stuff for 80k a pop, no idea how much one could make by applying themselves at the time doing infected or cure regularly since QS is a real nasty one to get past with the two gates. and the game was more basic which made it more fun to play. problem with creating lots of additional content or better tech is that it becomes far more complicated to use and maintain. i hate technology.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Well clearly, the presence of the fleet system now means that it does demand it. QED.
Well, no.
What do large (or more accurately, advanced) fleets have that smaller (less advanced) ones don't? Better ships, gear and BOffs. Of these, only the consoles have no non-fleet equivalent quality items - otherwise you can get lockbox, lobi or rep gear of a similar standard.
Now, you can gear a character or ship to complete *any* PVE content in STO comfortably with only C-store and exchange gear. The queues mean that you don't need fleetmates to access group based missions either. So, high-end PVP aside, there is nothing in the fleet system that anyone "needs" to play the game. This, I believe, was azurianstar's point.
Cryptic's designers are not shutting anyone out from any aspect of gameplay, except perhaps PVP. Really it's quite an equitable position.
I keep seeing the word "forced" cropping up in every other posting.
I am forced to grind, I am forced to pay money, I am forced to earn ec/dil/fleet marks, I am forced to do rep, I am forced to - whatever.
people are still missing the whole point of this game, as I said in a previous posting nobody is forced to do anything.
if people do any of the above that is their choice nobody held a gun to their head and said do that or else.
nobody is forced to grind, nobody is forced to do rep, nobody is even forced to join a fleet big or small.
these are all the things the players have chosen to do.
when I play I might choose to do some missions that pay out fleet marks, sometimes I might choose to play missions that pay out dil or ec, sometimes I might just fly around in circles till im dizzy.
if I give to the fleet or keep for myself it is because I have chosen to do so.
if I pay money for something in the game its because I have chosen to do it.
as far as I can see the only thing the game designers expect you to do is have fun and anyone who is not having fun need to change their priorities and go and do something that is fun to them, otherwise they are not playing the game as its meant to be played and you cant blame cryptic or pw for feeling like you are grinding for anything that is your choice to do it.
in many ways I suppose the game reflects real life in this respect If you would like to buy that new laptop/car/perfume for the misses you will need to go to work, maybe even do some overtime to get it.
this may seem like a grind but it is your choice.
if you decide to make do with your old laptop or car you can have a few day off instead that is also your choice.
you might want to think twice when it comes to that perfume for the misses though.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I keep seeing the word "forced" cropping up in every other posting.
I am forced to grind, I am forced to pay money, I am forced to earn ec/dil/fleet marks, I am forced to do rep, I am forced to - whatever.
people are still missing the whole point of this game, as I said in a previous posting nobody is forced to do anything.
if people do any of the above that is their choice nobody held a gun to their head and said do that or else.
nobody is forced to grind, nobody is forced to do rep, nobody is even forced to join a fleet big or small.
these are all the things the players have chosen to do.
when I play I might choose to do some missions that pay out fleet marks, sometimes I might choose to play missions that pay out dil or ec, sometimes I might just fly around in circles till im dizzy.
if I give to the fleet or keep for myself it is because I have chosen to do so.
if I pay money for something in the game its because I have chosen to do it.
as far as I can see the only thing the game designers expect you to do is have fun and anyone who is not having fun need to change their priorities and go and do something that is fun to them, otherwise they are not playing the game as its meant to be played and you cant blame cryptic or pw for feeling like you are grinding for anything that is your choice to do it.
in many ways I suppose the game reflects real life in this respect If you would like to buy that new laptop/car/perfume for the misses you will need to go to work, maybe even do some overtime to get it.
this may seem like a grind but it is your choice.
if you decide to make do with your old laptop or car you can have a few day off instead that is also your choice.
you might want to think twice when it comes to that perfume for the misses though.
i think you're missing the point. Without the new content, there would be nothing to do right? But, why make every little thing a grind? Why nerf everything? They nerfed the slipstream drive which makes the advanced slipstream drive pointless in using cause there is only 1 sector that not quite uses the entire 1 minute, and that's Sirius. Now the foundry has been altered. They are being tight. They are even giving FA fleet marks in the new content they release. It is ignorant people that throw their dollars at them, is why they will continue down the path. They do things to the game THEY want done to it. NOT the players. EVE Online, when i first started playing that, i had someone from their team contact me while i was online and ask me questions, like, how are you finding the game? are you unsure of anything? have you encountered any bugs that need attention?What content would you like to see? They spoke to me for about an hour. And if i did have a problem with a mission or something, they were VERY quick to reply. They CARE about their players, their thoughts and their opinions, and it is far from a grind. Sure the research might take a while, but you can earn credits a HELL OF A LOT quicker and easier then STO. Plus their graphics are awesome. My poiint is, that game, caters for EVERYONE. To get my own fleet going in it wasn't even a grind. To setup bases or outposts wasnt a grind. So, no, MMO's do NOT have to be a grind
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
You don't want to grind the same five missions every day? Start using the Foundry search function to find story missions. You're welcome.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Your best bet is to merge with a larger fleet, as it's only going to become more expensive the higher you go. Eventually, prohibitively so.
i would, but most only accept 1, maybe 2 toons. i dont want my toons all over the place. i have 12 of them, 6 fed 6 kdf, want the fed in fed and kdf in kdf obviously.
But as i also stated, i found there are trolls in large fleets. i know i can ignore them, but if i do that it defeats the purpose of being in a large fleet. Also i have spent RL money on my fleet and too many hours, so im waaayyyy past the point of no return lol
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
I'm ok with grinding being steadily added to end game, but I have a steep list of requirements for this condition.
1. The most important one to me is that an end game grind shouldn't be mandatory. By giving each rep inherit stat bonuses it becomes an extension of the leveling system and characters have a really difficult time competing after two or more rep completions. If the grind was just for different gear, story access, or content access that would be fine with me.
2. The grind shouldn't punish hardcore players with tons of alts. I don't know if il ever get to PVP or relax at special events because I love all of the characters I made and want them to achieve max stats, not including the ridiculous accolade bonuses. The grind should take a manageable amount of resources and time at any character count. The tokens only help resources sadly but the thought is nice.
3. The grind shouldn't punish interactivity between people. Everyone has something to grind now and it's all mixed about which hurts partying up. The fleet system is really suffering thanks to this and my fleet standing isn't so great because I can't help my friends a lot with projects. If they weren't rich from being launch players I don't know how we'd get anything done. Hiding finished decorative content behind dylithium project walls isn't doing the problem any favors either.
4. The grind needs to accept both ground and space players, while rewarding them equally. There isn't a single rep path that treats players as well as the Omega one does. For every elite you do you get a heap of marks, dylithium, and a chance at a glorious purple mk. XII item drop. Nothing else offers all that. Getting close to such rewards often takes more skill or better items in other rep paths thanks to variable reward systems, timer-less optionals, or longer missions.
First off, I will admit I haven't read the pages upon pages of responses. My response might even get lost in the sea of responses. But I have to ponder this. While I agree that too much grind is unfun, isn't the grind to get *insert favorite ship here* part of what makes it so satisfying once you finally fly it?
It is at least for me.
Plus, MMOs are kinda grind-tastic anyway. :P
I can sympathize with the 'I am a smaller group than others' thing to the fleet issue, though.
i think you're missing the point. Without the new content, there would be nothing to do right? But, why make every little thing a grind?
I am not missing the point at all, there is plenty to do in the game that I enjoy without having to Reilly exclusively on new content or any new content at all.
if they bring out new content that I find enjoyable I will make it a part of the many parts of the game I play, though I cant remember it ever happening but if they bought out some new content that I didn't much care for I would skip it and just keep on doing what I do like to do, or if they didn't bring out any new content at all for a while I would be quite happy to play the game as it is until such a time as they did bring out new stuff.
new content or old content only becomes a grind if you only play that part and nothing else just so you can fill your rep or advance your fleet to get the latest new kit or fleet gear as soon as possible, sure I will play the new content but I will not exclude playing some of the older content that I also enjoy playing.
ok so it might take me longer to fill the rep but it dosnt bother me how long it will take to reach t5 and get any new gear I might want from it, it also dosnt bother me how long it will take us to fill our fleet projects they will all get done at some point.
only by doing this does any new content become a pleasure rather then a grind.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Well, being honest, ot's only you choosing to make it a grind. Instead of feeling forced to do stuff, to get certain things, why don't you take a step back, and just play the content you WANT to, for a while? And if you choose to keep grinding for whatever particular goal toy've set, that's your choice, not a forced thing.
Also, i disagree with small fleets getting any kind of discount on project costs, unless they have some kind of limits put to them, as well. like, if a project only costs half as much, well, then it only gets you half the benes. After all, regardless of whether it's a large fleet, or a small fleet, a project, that say, hands 2k xp to a particular development, should have no variation in cost. On top of that, small fleets getting some kind of discount leaves the door open to all kinds of abuse. Small fleet gets reduced cost on stuff, builds up their holdings, then invites a ton of people.
Or another scenario, large fleets feel their getting gypped by small fleets getting a discount. So, they design a "rotating roster", kick people out so they are a "small fleet", and rotate their membership, so they continue to have an influx of materiel for their projects, but because their membership #'s never go above a certain point, they qualify for your "small fleet discount". Then, once the projects are done (or at least the most expensive ones), they just get all their members back in.
I guess my overall thing is, a "small fleet discount" idea, won't work, has great potential to be abused, and is counter-intuitive from the way things should work.
Now, granted, if there were ways to make different fleet sizes, and lock them in at that size, then yes, I could say that different size fleets would & should have different costs, to reflect differing overhead costs and such, a large fleet would technically waste much in bureaucracy. Whereas a small fleet might not be able to gain all size advantages or areas that a large fleet could, would have a "tighter" response time, and less wastage. And that could be reflected in the differing costs for projects between them. But with the "one size can fit all" fleet, as it is currently, there's just too much abuse potential.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
I'm ok with grinding being steadily added to end game, but I have a steep list of requirements for this condition.
1. The most important one to me is that an end game grind shouldn't be mandatory. By giving each rep inherit stat bonuses it becomes an extension of the leveling system and characters have a really difficult time competing after two or more rep completions. If the grind was just for different gear, story access, or content access that would be fine with me.
2. The grind shouldn't punish hardcore players with tons of alts. I don't know if il ever get to PVP or relax at special events because I love all of the characters I made and want them to achieve max stats, not including the ridiculous accolade bonuses. The grind should take a manageable amount of resources and time at any character count. The tokens only help resources sadly but the thought is nice.
3. The grind shouldn't punish interactivity between people. Everyone has something to grind now and it's all mixed about which hurts partying up. The fleet system is really suffering thanks to this and my fleet standing isn't so great because I can't help my friends a lot with projects. If they weren't rich from being launch players I don't know how we'd get anything done. Hiding finished decorative content behind dylithium project walls isn't doing the problem any favors either.
4. The grind needs to accept both ground and space players, while rewarding them equally. There isn't a single rep path that treats players as well as the Omega one does. For every elite you do you get a heap of marks, dylithium, and a chance at a glorious purple mk. XII item drop. Nothing else offers all that. Getting close to such rewards often takes more skill or better items in other rep paths thanks to variable reward systems, timer-less optionals, or longer missions.
1. well it isn't mandatory, nobody is forced to do any of the rep or in any time period, you can do it as you want when you want or not at all if you that's what you want.
2. I often think this is some peoples biggest problem and have often seen them stop playing the game as a result of it, having lots of alts is fine but you must remember that you only have a finite amount of play time, so either limit the amount of characters you play or if you prefer only play a set number each day, so if you have say six characters only play 2 or 3 a day, this is not the game punishing hardcore players but time.
3. this basically brings us back to my answer for item 1, if you want to work on your rep one day then do that if you would rather have some interactivity between people then do that instead or do a little of both.
4. all parts of the game do accept both ground and space players, sure some of the Omega rewards are nice but you don't have to have any of them, I play Omega all the time but have got hardly any of the rewards, not because I couldn't get them as I could have had them many times over, but because I am quite happy with the rewards I chose to get from other reps and from some of the in game drops and doff mission rewards.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
there it is in a nutshell, gives us your money or have "fun" in repetitive grinds
Not a fair assessment. There is remarkably little overlap between pay and grind in STO - notably you can't pay zen to bypass rep grind or get fleet gear, but conversely you can grind dil to get zen-only upgrades. STO is more of a time gate game, with mission cooldowns and project timers dictating the maximum pace of progress.
Not a fair assessment. There is remarkably little overlap between pay and grind in STO - notably you can't pay zen to bypass rep grind or get fleet gear, but conversely you can grind dil to get zen-only upgrades. STO is more of a time gate game, with mission cooldowns and project timers dictating the maximum pace of progress.
yes you can.....buy zen, go to dil exchange, trade zen for dil.
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
I have to respectfully disagree. The so called "Grinding" I do, i tend to do with my fleet. And to me, that's not grinding, it's just pure fun. Then again we're all half-insane so it makes for a fun time.
This game, like many others is how you make it. But that's just my opinion.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
I have to respectfully disagree. The so called "Grinding" I do, i tend to do with my fleet. And to me, that's not grinding, it's just pure fun. Then again we're all half-insane so it makes for a fun time.
This game, like many others is how you make it. But that's just my opinion.
basically what I said. It only becomes a grind if YOU make it a grind. If you make your STO playing time fun, then the grind aspect becomes secondary.
the thing that makes me laugh, is people go out grind all the time. get all their gear, become super over powered and for what?
why do you want all that gear if you are not enjoying playing the content in the first place? because you sure as hell wont enjoy playing it after. i would not be at all surprised if most people get their gear while being worn down by the grind, only to stop playing after they have what they want.
grind works and they keep people playing and paying which is good for the game but if the content being repeated is not enough to retain your sense of fun, then i dont see why getting some new toys to make the content you dont like even easier, really fixes anything?
i think people could do with changing their mindset. play content for fun, and use the resources you earn to improve, rather than trying to improve as your main goal and slogging through it regardless of enjoyment. that's a sure fire way to begin hating the game.
Unlike games like Mass Effect we are supposed to play this much much longer, therefore we need a continuing progression = stuff to do.
However, at this time it is handled EXTREMLY POORLY in STO.
Its not that STO does not have much more content then we regularly play, its just that we are forced into were small circles of content through the reputation system.
The reputation system in might add is not a broken system in general. I like the concept. I thing it is a much better manner of character progression then, what many people seem to ask for, just randomly raising the level cap with no good reason then raising the level cap.
But it cancels out a lot of content.
Story mission replay, exploration content, Foundry missions, even pvp simply give no progression and therefore are not done.
And there are lots of other possibilities to make the grind less painful with no disadvantage on cryptics side. But they are blind on that point, and ultimately the only ones they hurt with it are themselves....
Liking a game too much is the curse of all mmos. Think of it like watching tv: You come home from work, you do your daily activities: cook, clean, and so on, and then at 8 you sit down to watch 3 hours of tv; except the only thing you watch is I Love Lucy.
After a month, after watching I Love Lucy for 20-30 hours per week, you are going to be so sick of I Love Lucy that you won't even care that they found an unseen episode hidden in the archives somewhere. You burned yourself out on I Love Lucy. No matter how good I Love Lucy is you just can't bring yourself to watch them over and over and over any more and find yourself complaining about I Love Lucy to friends and strangers on the internet.
Gaming is exactly like that. MMOs can't produce 3 hours of new content for players to use every day, so you get yourself burned out by doing the same things over and over once you've done it all. Yeah, there's a certain segment of the population who can exclusively watch I Love Lucy every day for 30 years but they're the exception, not the norm.
People need to treat MMO gaming like they treat tv: instead of watching 1 tv program all the time you watch different programs at different time or on different days. So you can watch the Criminal Minds marathon on Monday, and the House marathon on Tuesdays, and so on. You need to mix up your hobby time with multiple games. Play some other mmos, play some console games, play some old-school console games. Just like watching 20 different tv programs per week keeps you interested in those programs playing multiple games can help keep you interested in games.
If you can't enjoy yourself only watching I Love Lucy on tv you can't enjoy yourself only playing STO. If you think you can you're only fooling yourself.
i didnt know about first bit you mentioned. Be better tho if they allowed us to purchase EC's or FM's in a similar way we purchase zen.
As for the grinding, it is more grinding for me and others out there doing it on there own or in small fleets than what it is for those in large fleets.
Say for example a fleet project costs 100K dilithium, for me, that takes me nearly 2 weeks to do. Where as a fleet with say 400 people in it, it takes them a few minutes. 100K divide 400 people = 250 dilithium each.
Now imagine projects that cost over 1 Million dilithium. It would take me over 4 months, where as a fleet of 400 would take, again a few minutes, 1 Million dill divide 400 = 2500 dill each. Or 2000 dill if the fleet is full.
This is what im getting on about, They should make it that easy for us small fleets. It would'nt be hard for the devs to implement something that makes it easy for us as well as the large fleets.
The dilithium mine, just makes things even easier for the large fleets and doesnt change a thing for us small fleets.... This is what i mean by grinding. It is getting tiresome!
They could make the quantity to put into the projects adapt to the number of fleet members so the amount of grind would be roughly the same for everyone. That has advantages for small fleets, but idk if Cryptic devs would like this idea, as the size of these projects is what makes fleet leaders try to drag new players into their fleet. That incentive would be dropped in such a system.
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
Liking a game too much is the curse of all mmos. Think of it like watching tv: You come home from work, you do your daily activities: cook, clean, and so on, and then at 8 you sit down to watch 3 hours of tv; except the only thing you watch is I Love Lucy.
After a month, after watching I Love Lucy for 20-30 hours per week, you are going to be so sick of I Love Lucy that you won't even care that they found an unseen episode hidden in the archives somewhere. You burned yourself out on I Love Lucy. No matter how good I Love Lucy is you just can't bring yourself to watch them over and over and over any more and find yourself complaining about I Love Lucy to friends and strangers on the internet.
You left out the last part: "...only to realize that most of said friends and strangers are too young to know what the f@$# I Love Lucy is, and in any case are more interested in discussing shows like Breaking Bad or The Big Bang Theory." :P
Comments
I agree. If this game was anything like EVE Online, then yeah, you would need a large a fleet as the content is there to support it.
STO need large fleets? i dont think so. I don't PvP at all. I have once or twice to try it, and it didnt appeal to me. I've always been a more PvE and a bit of a lone gunner. Specially with leechers in this game. I don't play with leechers just so they get loot for doin sweet fa. Soon as i spot one, i quit the mission, penalty or no penalty.
But yeah, i think the fleet system could do with......an overhaul
used to sell off a lot of borg mk x stuff for 80k a pop, no idea how much one could make by applying themselves at the time doing infected or cure regularly since QS is a real nasty one to get past with the two gates. and the game was more basic which made it more fun to play. problem with creating lots of additional content or better tech is that it becomes far more complicated to use and maintain. i hate technology.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Well, no.
What do large (or more accurately, advanced) fleets have that smaller (less advanced) ones don't? Better ships, gear and BOffs. Of these, only the consoles have no non-fleet equivalent quality items - otherwise you can get lockbox, lobi or rep gear of a similar standard.
Now, you can gear a character or ship to complete *any* PVE content in STO comfortably with only C-store and exchange gear. The queues mean that you don't need fleetmates to access group based missions either. So, high-end PVP aside, there is nothing in the fleet system that anyone "needs" to play the game. This, I believe, was azurianstar's point.
Cryptic's designers are not shutting anyone out from any aspect of gameplay, except perhaps PVP. Really it's quite an equitable position.
I am forced to grind, I am forced to pay money, I am forced to earn ec/dil/fleet marks, I am forced to do rep, I am forced to - whatever.
people are still missing the whole point of this game, as I said in a previous posting nobody is forced to do anything.
if people do any of the above that is their choice nobody held a gun to their head and said do that or else.
nobody is forced to grind, nobody is forced to do rep, nobody is even forced to join a fleet big or small.
these are all the things the players have chosen to do.
when I play I might choose to do some missions that pay out fleet marks, sometimes I might choose to play missions that pay out dil or ec, sometimes I might just fly around in circles till im dizzy.
if I give to the fleet or keep for myself it is because I have chosen to do so.
if I pay money for something in the game its because I have chosen to do it.
as far as I can see the only thing the game designers expect you to do is have fun and anyone who is not having fun need to change their priorities and go and do something that is fun to them, otherwise they are not playing the game as its meant to be played and you cant blame cryptic or pw for feeling like you are grinding for anything that is your choice to do it.
in many ways I suppose the game reflects real life in this respect If you would like to buy that new laptop/car/perfume for the misses you will need to go to work, maybe even do some overtime to get it.
this may seem like a grind but it is your choice.
if you decide to make do with your old laptop or car you can have a few day off instead that is also your choice.
you might want to think twice when it comes to that perfume for the misses though.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
i think you're missing the point. Without the new content, there would be nothing to do right? But, why make every little thing a grind? Why nerf everything? They nerfed the slipstream drive which makes the advanced slipstream drive pointless in using cause there is only 1 sector that not quite uses the entire 1 minute, and that's Sirius. Now the foundry has been altered. They are being tight. They are even giving FA fleet marks in the new content they release. It is ignorant people that throw their dollars at them, is why they will continue down the path. They do things to the game THEY want done to it. NOT the players. EVE Online, when i first started playing that, i had someone from their team contact me while i was online and ask me questions, like, how are you finding the game? are you unsure of anything? have you encountered any bugs that need attention?What content would you like to see? They spoke to me for about an hour. And if i did have a problem with a mission or something, they were VERY quick to reply. They CARE about their players, their thoughts and their opinions, and it is far from a grind. Sure the research might take a while, but you can earn credits a HELL OF A LOT quicker and easier then STO. Plus their graphics are awesome. My poiint is, that game, caters for EVERYONE. To get my own fleet going in it wasn't even a grind. To setup bases or outposts wasnt a grind. So, no, MMO's do NOT have to be a grind
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
- Judge Aaron Satie
i would, but most only accept 1, maybe 2 toons. i dont want my toons all over the place. i have 12 of them, 6 fed 6 kdf, want the fed in fed and kdf in kdf obviously.
But as i also stated, i found there are trolls in large fleets. i know i can ignore them, but if i do that it defeats the purpose of being in a large fleet. Also i have spent RL money on my fleet and too many hours, so im waaayyyy past the point of no return lol
there it is in a nutshell, gives us your money or have "fun" in repetitive grinds
1. The most important one to me is that an end game grind shouldn't be mandatory. By giving each rep inherit stat bonuses it becomes an extension of the leveling system and characters have a really difficult time competing after two or more rep completions. If the grind was just for different gear, story access, or content access that would be fine with me.
2. The grind shouldn't punish hardcore players with tons of alts. I don't know if il ever get to PVP or relax at special events because I love all of the characters I made and want them to achieve max stats, not including the ridiculous accolade bonuses. The grind should take a manageable amount of resources and time at any character count. The tokens only help resources sadly but the thought is nice.
3. The grind shouldn't punish interactivity between people. Everyone has something to grind now and it's all mixed about which hurts partying up. The fleet system is really suffering thanks to this and my fleet standing isn't so great because I can't help my friends a lot with projects. If they weren't rich from being launch players I don't know how we'd get anything done. Hiding finished decorative content behind dylithium project walls isn't doing the problem any favors either.
4. The grind needs to accept both ground and space players, while rewarding them equally. There isn't a single rep path that treats players as well as the Omega one does. For every elite you do you get a heap of marks, dylithium, and a chance at a glorious purple mk. XII item drop. Nothing else offers all that. Getting close to such rewards often takes more skill or better items in other rep paths thanks to variable reward systems, timer-less optionals, or longer missions.
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It is at least for me.
Plus, MMOs are kinda grind-tastic anyway. :P
I can sympathize with the 'I am a smaller group than others' thing to the fleet issue, though.
-Ferus
I am not missing the point at all, there is plenty to do in the game that I enjoy without having to Reilly exclusively on new content or any new content at all.
if they bring out new content that I find enjoyable I will make it a part of the many parts of the game I play, though I cant remember it ever happening but if they bought out some new content that I didn't much care for I would skip it and just keep on doing what I do like to do, or if they didn't bring out any new content at all for a while I would be quite happy to play the game as it is until such a time as they did bring out new stuff.
new content or old content only becomes a grind if you only play that part and nothing else just so you can fill your rep or advance your fleet to get the latest new kit or fleet gear as soon as possible, sure I will play the new content but I will not exclude playing some of the older content that I also enjoy playing.
ok so it might take me longer to fill the rep but it dosnt bother me how long it will take to reach t5 and get any new gear I might want from it, it also dosnt bother me how long it will take us to fill our fleet projects they will all get done at some point.
only by doing this does any new content become a pleasure rather then a grind.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Also, i disagree with small fleets getting any kind of discount on project costs, unless they have some kind of limits put to them, as well. like, if a project only costs half as much, well, then it only gets you half the benes. After all, regardless of whether it's a large fleet, or a small fleet, a project, that say, hands 2k xp to a particular development, should have no variation in cost. On top of that, small fleets getting some kind of discount leaves the door open to all kinds of abuse. Small fleet gets reduced cost on stuff, builds up their holdings, then invites a ton of people.
Or another scenario, large fleets feel their getting gypped by small fleets getting a discount. So, they design a "rotating roster", kick people out so they are a "small fleet", and rotate their membership, so they continue to have an influx of materiel for their projects, but because their membership #'s never go above a certain point, they qualify for your "small fleet discount". Then, once the projects are done (or at least the most expensive ones), they just get all their members back in.
I guess my overall thing is, a "small fleet discount" idea, won't work, has great potential to be abused, and is counter-intuitive from the way things should work.
Now, granted, if there were ways to make different fleet sizes, and lock them in at that size, then yes, I could say that different size fleets would & should have different costs, to reflect differing overhead costs and such, a large fleet would technically waste much in bureaucracy. Whereas a small fleet might not be able to gain all size advantages or areas that a large fleet could, would have a "tighter" response time, and less wastage. And that could be reflected in the differing costs for projects between them. But with the "one size can fit all" fleet, as it is currently, there's just too much abuse potential.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
1. well it isn't mandatory, nobody is forced to do any of the rep or in any time period, you can do it as you want when you want or not at all if you that's what you want.
2. I often think this is some peoples biggest problem and have often seen them stop playing the game as a result of it, having lots of alts is fine but you must remember that you only have a finite amount of play time, so either limit the amount of characters you play or if you prefer only play a set number each day, so if you have say six characters only play 2 or 3 a day, this is not the game punishing hardcore players but time.
3. this basically brings us back to my answer for item 1, if you want to work on your rep one day then do that if you would rather have some interactivity between people then do that instead or do a little of both.
4. all parts of the game do accept both ground and space players, sure some of the Omega rewards are nice but you don't have to have any of them, I play Omega all the time but have got hardly any of the rewards, not because I couldn't get them as I could have had them many times over, but because I am quite happy with the rewards I chose to get from other reps and from some of the in game drops and doff mission rewards.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Not a fair assessment. There is remarkably little overlap between pay and grind in STO - notably you can't pay zen to bypass rep grind or get fleet gear, but conversely you can grind dil to get zen-only upgrades. STO is more of a time gate game, with mission cooldowns and project timers dictating the maximum pace of progress.
yes you can.....buy zen, go to dil exchange, trade zen for dil.
Am i missing something about the contrabanding?
Basicaly if you make the game fun for yourself there's no harm in the grind. If you dwell to much on it it becomes a chore.
This game, like many others is how you make it. But that's just my opinion.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
basically what I said. It only becomes a grind if YOU make it a grind. If you make your STO playing time fun, then the grind aspect becomes secondary.
why do you want all that gear if you are not enjoying playing the content in the first place? because you sure as hell wont enjoy playing it after. i would not be at all surprised if most people get their gear while being worn down by the grind, only to stop playing after they have what they want.
grind works and they keep people playing and paying which is good for the game but if the content being repeated is not enough to retain your sense of fun, then i dont see why getting some new toys to make the content you dont like even easier, really fixes anything?
i think people could do with changing their mindset. play content for fun, and use the resources you earn to improve, rather than trying to improve as your main goal and slogging through it regardless of enjoyment. that's a sure fire way to begin hating the game.
Unlike games like Mass Effect we are supposed to play this much much longer, therefore we need a continuing progression = stuff to do.
However, at this time it is handled EXTREMLY POORLY in STO.
Its not that STO does not have much more content then we regularly play, its just that we are forced into were small circles of content through the reputation system.
The reputation system in might add is not a broken system in general. I like the concept. I thing it is a much better manner of character progression then, what many people seem to ask for, just randomly raising the level cap with no good reason then raising the level cap.
But it cancels out a lot of content.
Story mission replay, exploration content, Foundry missions, even pvp simply give no progression and therefore are not done.
And there are lots of other possibilities to make the grind less painful with no disadvantage on cryptics side. But they are blind on that point, and ultimately the only ones they hurt with it are themselves....
After a month, after watching I Love Lucy for 20-30 hours per week, you are going to be so sick of I Love Lucy that you won't even care that they found an unseen episode hidden in the archives somewhere. You burned yourself out on I Love Lucy. No matter how good I Love Lucy is you just can't bring yourself to watch them over and over and over any more and find yourself complaining about I Love Lucy to friends and strangers on the internet.
Gaming is exactly like that. MMOs can't produce 3 hours of new content for players to use every day, so you get yourself burned out by doing the same things over and over once you've done it all. Yeah, there's a certain segment of the population who can exclusively watch I Love Lucy every day for 30 years but they're the exception, not the norm.
People need to treat MMO gaming like they treat tv: instead of watching 1 tv program all the time you watch different programs at different time or on different days. So you can watch the Criminal Minds marathon on Monday, and the House marathon on Tuesdays, and so on. You need to mix up your hobby time with multiple games. Play some other mmos, play some console games, play some old-school console games. Just like watching 20 different tv programs per week keeps you interested in those programs playing multiple games can help keep you interested in games.
If you can't enjoy yourself only watching I Love Lucy on tv you can't enjoy yourself only playing STO. If you think you can you're only fooling yourself.
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
You left out the last part: "...only to realize that most of said friends and strangers are too young to know what the f@$# I Love Lucy is, and in any case are more interested in discussing shows like Breaking Bad or The Big Bang Theory." :P
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