To play Devil's Advocate for a moment: We put in the Transporter Room, and Shuttle Bay, etc. Now instead of complaints about their lack of inclusion, we get complaints about the lack of anything to do there.
Yes, it would be great if they were in, and had something fun/exciting to do in each, but that's not as easy as everyone would like.
True. But offhand, I could see the shuttlebay being a roleplay alternative to selecting the shuttles you have in your shipyard. Instead of going through your UI, you simply walk up to it.
And if you implemented player ship events, I could see shuttlebays being a way for players to twart a boarding party. Heck, this was one of my PvP map ideas I had a few years back. Red Team comes in on Shuttle, Blue team protects the ship and uses various things to stop the Red Team.
I prefer having the interiors with "nothing to do" than not having interiors at all.
Also, part of the reason there's "nothing to do" in ship interiors is that the game has almost made everything "too convenient" to do everywhere else. No need to skill up BOffs, pick up missions, or check mail in your ready room b/c you can do that anywhere. No need to go to a replimat or cargo bay b/c you can just hit "I" anywhere. Don't need to go to your quarters to change clothes b/c you can change outfits anywhere.
You could actually kill two birds with one (possibly hard-to-swallow) stone: You know those sector block border walls that are a pain to everyone's immersion? You could put an end to that by (wait for it...) getting rid of sector space. This would mean you would need to be on your bridge to plot course (and possibly speed) to the next star system, giving players "something to do" on their bridge, and with no sector space, there would be no need for arbitrary sector walls for people to trip up on. Just plot a course, then while your ship makes its way, run around and do all the other things on your ship until it gets there, then hop back into system space when you're ready to start/continue your mission.
Brought a similar idea to Taco in the Ship Interior thread months ago. Said my idea was impossible since I required change in skyfiles. Which thanks to Spheres, it's now possible.
It's simply a mirror trick. In a way the destination wouldn't be any different than opening up the mission journal, and clicking transwarp to that mission. The only changes is that there would be no warp / transwarp cutscene. Instead, it would be like a delay to mimic warp travel to a destination. And simply swap out skyfiles behind the view screen that shows the various destinations in the game.
I even went further thinking we could actually play a mission from the bridge. Using that same idea. Where we could mimic turns and battle in a faux space. Since it's impossible to play STO from our bridges, so it would be like a movie set instead of individual objects, it would be sort of like classic Trek with ships on a wire and we pivot the bridge.
That's something I could see as a featured episode. In fact, I bet if they did it, it would blow people's minds.
Over 140 posts and no one mentions that when you look out the viewscreen on the new Origins bridge, it appears you are going in reverse. The stars are flying away from you NOT toward you.
Ya, I've fixed that already, just didn't make it into the build.
To play Devil's Advocate for a moment: We put in the Transporter Room, and Shuttle Bay, etc. Now instead of complaints about their lack of inclusion, we get complaints about the lack of anything to do there.
Yes, it would be great if they were in, and had something fun/exciting to do in each, but that's not as easy as everyone would like.
If i see pics of the bolded part......I wont eat a taco for the rest of november :P *not that i even eat tacos.....meh*
I for one have been hoping for a shuttle bay in the ship.....heck i run around my LARGE layout interior just for laughs......and how many laps i can run around the warp core before it implodes
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
To play Devil's Advocate for a moment: We put in the Transporter Room, and Shuttle Bay, etc. Now instead of complaints about their lack of inclusion, we get complaints about the lack of anything to do there.
Yes, it would be great if they were in, and had something fun/exciting to do in each, but that's not as easy as everyone would like.
It must be near impossible to make STO everything that everyone would want it to be.
I would be very happy if there were some bridge sets that were more in scale and somewhat customisable like some of the shelves are. Give us more trophies scattered around the ready room that are either won or purchased. The bridge can be your own personal social zone where invitees want to know which vendor sells that item on your shelf, or what mission gave you that reward sitting on your desk, or where you got that picture on the wall.
Effectively make the interior a display cabinet where you can show off your BOFFs (sitting where you want) and items you have collected on your travels.
How about a weapons cabinet or a choosable plant in the corner of the ready room that you can turn into a Christmas tree if the mood (or season) takes you?
STO is renowned for it's mix and matching of outfits and ship parts, so why not the bridge interiors too?
Environment Artist Jeff "LCDRMiller" Miller shares details about the process behind redesigning the interiors seen in the upcoming, revamped Federation tutorial in this entry of the Season 8 News Dev Blog series.
We put in the Transporter Room, and Shuttle Bay, etc. Now instead of complaints about their lack of inclusion, we get complaints about the lack of anything to do there.
Nope, I'd be too busy complaining that they're the wrong size/configuration for my particular ship! :P
Nah, in my opinion the Ship Selection Officer belongs in a shuttlebay instead of a transporter room. As far as I'm concerned the transporter room on my ship can serve a decorative purpose only.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Also, part of the reason there's "nothing to do" in ship interiors is that the game has almost made everything "too convenient" to do everywhere else. No need to skill up BOffs, pick up missions, or check mail in your ready room b/c you can do that anywhere. No need to go to a replimat or cargo bay b/c you can just hit "I" anywhere. Don't need to go to your quarters to change clothes b/c you can change outfits anywhere...you would need to be on your bridge to plot course...then while your ship makes its way, run around and do all the other things on your ship until it gets there, then hop back into system space when you're ready to start/continue your mission.
I recall when Heretic moved some DOFF sector assignments to interior contacts that caused a minor uprising as it just added at least 2 extra loading screens. its not "too convenient" when forcing players into a loading screen to just press a button.
Yup. For every person that would love something like that, there would be ten that would hate it.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Must've missed yours... And I did read the whole thread.
Link's broken, btw. :P
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Only the Origins Bridge will be available at Season 8 launch as the new default bridge option. I hope we can get the hallways in in a future update, but I don't have an ETA on if/when. I'll most definitely pass along the feedback as I think everyone would like to see them.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
This has been a long standing issue with Cryptic, and certainly not the answer I was hoping to see.
You guys spend a bunch of time to "sexy" up one tiny little corner of the game that we spend like 5 minutes in, but the rest of the game then looks out of place with the old style that is not even remotely close to being as good or pretty.
Developer's ADHD. I've said it for a couple years now. You guys spend time on something, make a little piece of the game cool, but then you don't complete the follow-through and retrofit the rest of the game to bring it up to the same standards of quality. It's a shame, because if you actually did some of that retrofit work, the game would look a whole lot better across the board.
Instead we'll get a new retro-fitted tutorial, and we'll never again see these good looking hallways anywhere else, because you moved on to something else and don't want to take the time to do it right.
/facepalm
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
um, i just watched a video of someone playing the new tutorial on tribble, and those nice corridors pictured in the blog, are enormous. the ceiling is definitely more than double the height of the player, who looked to be average height. so with the new corridors and the new bridge still being ridicularge, how is this in any way catering to player desires?
if you want proof that small spaces work just fine, go play sphere of influence, and when you free the captives from those little huts, walk into one and see how it feels. the ceiling is low, perhaps even a little lower than what a properly scaled corridor should be, but it works just fine. no camera issues, and i can walk around and fire my weapon just fine.
if you want proof that small spaces work just fine, go play sphere of influence, and when you free the captives from those little huts, walk into one and see how it feels. the ceiling is low, perhaps even a little lower than what a properly scaled corridor should be, but it works just fine. no camera issues, and i can walk around and fire my weapon just fine.
That's not a problem with cameras or something else for the player. That's a problem with the Qawfully atrocious (lack of) pathfinding of the NPCs.
Have you tried to play a Foundry mission involving narrow corridors or even doors? I can tell you your BOffs will give you murderous urges several times staying stuck and not being able to take a step to the right or left to fix it. That's why they need huge doors.
Of course, Cryptic could try to fix the pathfinding once and for all, but it's easier to ask the environment artists to press " size x 2" for the scenery and its collision boxes.
Everyone, stop complaining about the height! The reason they're so big is because player characters can be made in excess of 3 METERS (if you use Alien race or Gorn)! The Federation has been accepting officers from non-Federation worlds for more than a decade in-game! The ship corridors are gonna need to be rescaled to reflect that!
If you want character customisation, don't moan when Cryptic make the environments work with it!
Also, the reason they have to hold off on the interior is simple: prepping an interior for a mission is one thing, making it to be used as a social map like our ship interiors is another. If Cryptic release it before it's ready, it'll be a broken mess that everyone will crucify them for. If they hold off on it, everyone will crucify them for not giving it to them now. For Cryptic, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
The reason they're so big is because player characters can be made in excess of 3 METERS (if you use Alien race or Gorn)!
Hmm, i guess that's the answer for now... i'll make my character super tall and maybe it'll look more believable. Now i just need a re-species token...
I would love to see a shuttlebay with the active shuttle ready on the deck and inactive shuttles dormant in the background. you could have an interactive box to select active shuttle and also a launch option where a cutaway has the character disappears and the shuttle launces through a forcefield. just saying it could be cool.
Cryptic if you guys do decide to do shuttlebays (which could be difficult as every ship has a different one) please consider this one that John Eaves fir for the Big E-E.
DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS! Stop giving them reasons to justify this!
This is supposed to be an intermediate stage between the past 'Treks and the Odyssey. The orange holo-displays are "state-of-the-art", only placed on the flagship(s) and/or maybe any "experimental" or "prototype" 2409 ships. If you put it on the starter ship, it's not new and shiny by the time you can fly the flagship.
It was stated long ago (pre-Season7) that they were planning a revamp of the interior system, where we would be able to customize our interiors through a tool like the Foundry (or more importantly, the UPDATED Foundry like the one we see in Neverwinter). Individual rooms could be made as modules, so you may one day in the future be able to upgrade specific rooms like bridges, ready rooms, engineering, quarters, hallway sections, etc.
Why would they lose orientation? A view screen would not help with that, at all. In fact, a view screen would be detrimental to orientation not beneficial. Space there is no level plane that people fly to, there is no up, down, or really any direction space is space. The big empty black hole that we find ourselves in.
You also seem to be confusing sea ship with a space vessel. Space is ridiculously big, it's not an ocean. The best you can give a space vessel is a submarine and even that analogy is completely wrong. Having a view screen is completely pointless because you have things at tens of thousands of kilometers distance, so looking out the window to spot something that isn't even a spec in the distance would do nothing to help a navigators views. In other words saying ten thousand kilometers that would be the equivalent of about two US distances from east to west coast distance between you and a target. The shortest distance, in the show, that the Enterprise ever engaged another space vehicle was 1,000 kilometers, or about the distance from Boston, MA to Wilmington, NC.
Navigation in space would be completely reliant on what your instruments tell you, not what your eyes tell you on a view screen that can't even see a tenth of the space in front of you. The view screen was there in the show for the audiences benefit, not the crews, that's it. Navigators and Ops would not even use that view screen they would have their own instruments telling them what they need to know.
And while the Navy might have used the TOS series bridge as inspiration before the navy has since then redesigned it and uses their own make ups now still. Then again, there are many myths and legends about Star Trek that tend to get embellished more than they actually are, or how the events actually happened.
In short, what you know of sea travel would hardly qualify for space travel. A space vehicle is not even remotely close to what an aircraft carrier is.
Don't conflate my arguments. I am well aware of the difference between sea navigation on a flat plane and 3D oriented space flight. I was simply speaking from personal experience. You went on that rant and ignored the fact that I mentioned two places on my ship that had the ability to maneuver the vessel and had absolutely NO way to see anything at all. It's the same on a submarine.
But would you find it logical or meaningful to have the helmsman facing backwards on a bridge either? It simply isn't natural is all.
And we seem to have been watching two different shows because the ships in most Star Trek shows usually engaged at much closer ranges than a thousand kilometers, more like what we have in this game, ten kilometers or twenty kilometers. Which makes sense, all the weapons are limited by the speed of light, when you have computers and sensors and engines that move faster than light and can move at relativistic speeds, or jump to warp, then long distances means your opponent can evade you more easily. I do of course understand that it's also a necessity of the medium as having two ships shooting at someone from beyond visual range wouldn't really make for good television.
The utility of the viewscreen is debatable, as it isn't very quick to have to call the Captain to a station in a battle situation to review a piece of data when it could just as easily be displayed on the viewscreen. And the veiwscreen being a screen instead of a window allows it to track a target and thus is always looking where it needs to, and I imagine it can display more information simultaneously than a single station's instrument panel. Also the viewscreen isn't a window it's a display that shows what the sensors pickup, so it's not limited by light visuals like a simple camera or the range to target. Which is why we heard magnify so much. They weren't using a telescope.
As for the veracity of the story about the Navy visit to the old bridge you'll have to take that up with the editors of Star Trek The Magazine since Mr. Jefferies and Mr Roddenberry have both sadly left us. And then tell the editors at Memory Alpha to remove it from the page if you find it to be untrue.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Now that I have played the tutorial and saw the difference between the screenshot an how it is in-game I'm not that thrilled anymore on the interior. It looks ok, but its miles away from the TOS or the romulan ship interior.
Hey as you said the interiors are modular so can you please give us new interiors i'm tired of the old (and way to large) original corridors please give us this for our ship's interiors
hmm... I was thinking about how big the corridors were (to accommodate battles and other big races they might be fighting against) and had thought, how who would build their ships in a way to accommodate a hostile species trying to board the ship? ... and then followed that thought up with, well... it _is_ a UFP ship... they _would_ be PC enough to not want invading Gorn (or dinos) to be able to move through the halls without bumping their heads or anything... so... yeah, they'd do it...
Ya, I've fixed that already, just didn't make it into the build.
To play Devil's Advocate for a moment: We put in the Transporter Room, and Shuttle Bay, etc. Now instead of complaints about their lack of inclusion, we get complaints about the lack of anything to do there.
Yes, it would be great if they were in, and had something fun/exciting to do in each, but that's not as easy as everyone would like.
Well, that's to be expected, but it's still preferable to not having them. You could put the account bank in the armory, small craft selection in the shuttle bay, and then use the transporter for the operations doffing contact. Just work with what assets you have, it'd be such a large step in the right direction while y'all figured out what you wanted to do with ship interiors.
Comments
True. But offhand, I could see the shuttlebay being a roleplay alternative to selecting the shuttles you have in your shipyard. Instead of going through your UI, you simply walk up to it.
And if you implemented player ship events, I could see shuttlebays being a way for players to twart a boarding party. Heck, this was one of my PvP map ideas I had a few years back. Red Team comes in on Shuttle, Blue team protects the ship and uses various things to stop the Red Team.
Brought a similar idea to Taco in the Ship Interior thread months ago. Said my idea was impossible since I required change in skyfiles. Which thanks to Spheres, it's now possible.
It's simply a mirror trick. In a way the destination wouldn't be any different than opening up the mission journal, and clicking transwarp to that mission. The only changes is that there would be no warp / transwarp cutscene. Instead, it would be like a delay to mimic warp travel to a destination. And simply swap out skyfiles behind the view screen that shows the various destinations in the game.
I even went further thinking we could actually play a mission from the bridge. Using that same idea. Where we could mimic turns and battle in a faux space. Since it's impossible to play STO from our bridges, so it would be like a movie set instead of individual objects, it would be sort of like classic Trek with ships on a wire and we pivot the bridge.
That's something I could see as a featured episode. In fact, I bet if they did it, it would blow people's minds.
You didn't actually look at all those posts, did you? See post #59. :P
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=906361&page=6#59
Thanks for fixing that!
If i see pics of the bolded part......I wont eat a taco for the rest of november :P *not that i even eat tacos.....meh*
I for one have been hoping for a shuttle bay in the ship.....heck i run around my LARGE layout interior just for laughs......and how many laps i can run around the warp core before it implodes
It must be near impossible to make STO everything that everyone would want it to be.
I would be very happy if there were some bridge sets that were more in scale and somewhat customisable like some of the shelves are. Give us more trophies scattered around the ready room that are either won or purchased. The bridge can be your own personal social zone where invitees want to know which vendor sells that item on your shelf, or what mission gave you that reward sitting on your desk, or where you got that picture on the wall.
Effectively make the interior a display cabinet where you can show off your BOFFs (sitting where you want) and items you have collected on your travels.
How about a weapons cabinet or a choosable plant in the corner of the ready room that you can turn into a Christmas tree if the mood (or season) takes you?
STO is renowned for it's mix and matching of outfits and ship parts, so why not the bridge interiors too?
Captain, there be new ship interiors! OMG!
Nope, I'd be too busy complaining that they're the wrong size/configuration for my particular ship! :P
Nah, in my opinion the Ship Selection Officer belongs in a shuttlebay instead of a transporter room. As far as I'm concerned the transporter room on my ship can serve a decorative purpose only.
Yup. For every person that would love something like that, there would be ten that would hate it.
Must've missed yours... And I did read the whole thread.
Link's broken, btw. :P
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Odd, link works for me. Page 6 of this thread, post #59.
This has been a long standing issue with Cryptic, and certainly not the answer I was hoping to see.
You guys spend a bunch of time to "sexy" up one tiny little corner of the game that we spend like 5 minutes in, but the rest of the game then looks out of place with the old style that is not even remotely close to being as good or pretty.
Developer's ADHD. I've said it for a couple years now. You guys spend time on something, make a little piece of the game cool, but then you don't complete the follow-through and retrofit the rest of the game to bring it up to the same standards of quality. It's a shame, because if you actually did some of that retrofit work, the game would look a whole lot better across the board.
Instead we'll get a new retro-fitted tutorial, and we'll never again see these good looking hallways anywhere else, because you moved on to something else and don't want to take the time to do it right.
/facepalm
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
if you want proof that small spaces work just fine, go play sphere of influence, and when you free the captives from those little huts, walk into one and see how it feels. the ceiling is low, perhaps even a little lower than what a properly scaled corridor should be, but it works just fine. no camera issues, and i can walk around and fire my weapon just fine.
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
That's not a problem with cameras or something else for the player. That's a problem with the Qawfully atrocious (lack of) pathfinding of the NPCs.
Have you tried to play a Foundry mission involving narrow corridors or even doors? I can tell you your BOffs will give you murderous urges several times staying stuck and not being able to take a step to the right or left to fix it. That's why they need huge doors.
Of course, Cryptic could try to fix the pathfinding once and for all, but it's easier to ask the environment artists to press " size x 2" for the scenery and its collision boxes.
If you want character customisation, don't moan when Cryptic make the environments work with it!
Also, the reason they have to hold off on the interior is simple: prepping an interior for a mission is one thing, making it to be used as a social map like our ship interiors is another. If Cryptic release it before it's ready, it'll be a broken mess that everyone will crucify them for. If they hold off on it, everyone will crucify them for not giving it to them now. For Cryptic, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Hmm, i guess that's the answer for now... i'll make my character super tall and maybe it'll look more believable. Now i just need a re-species token...
Pizza: Pepperoni
Kalek shel'tek!
"Do not make me look foolish by allowing yourself to be murdered" -Lord Yu
Cryptic if you guys do decide to do shuttlebays (which could be difficult as every ship has a different one) please consider this one that John Eaves fir for the Big E-E.
http://ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Enterprise-E-shuttle-bay-by-John-Eaves.jpg
Still drooling for this.
Don't conflate my arguments. I am well aware of the difference between sea navigation on a flat plane and 3D oriented space flight. I was simply speaking from personal experience. You went on that rant and ignored the fact that I mentioned two places on my ship that had the ability to maneuver the vessel and had absolutely NO way to see anything at all. It's the same on a submarine.
But would you find it logical or meaningful to have the helmsman facing backwards on a bridge either? It simply isn't natural is all.
And we seem to have been watching two different shows because the ships in most Star Trek shows usually engaged at much closer ranges than a thousand kilometers, more like what we have in this game, ten kilometers or twenty kilometers. Which makes sense, all the weapons are limited by the speed of light, when you have computers and sensors and engines that move faster than light and can move at relativistic speeds, or jump to warp, then long distances means your opponent can evade you more easily. I do of course understand that it's also a necessity of the medium as having two ships shooting at someone from beyond visual range wouldn't really make for good television.
The utility of the viewscreen is debatable, as it isn't very quick to have to call the Captain to a station in a battle situation to review a piece of data when it could just as easily be displayed on the viewscreen. And the veiwscreen being a screen instead of a window allows it to track a target and thus is always looking where it needs to, and I imagine it can display more information simultaneously than a single station's instrument panel. Also the viewscreen isn't a window it's a display that shows what the sensors pickup, so it's not limited by light visuals like a simple camera or the range to target. Which is why we heard magnify so much. They weren't using a telescope.
As for the veracity of the story about the Navy visit to the old bridge you'll have to take that up with the editors of Star Trek The Magazine since Mr. Jefferies and Mr Roddenberry have both sadly left us. And then tell the editors at Memory Alpha to remove it from the page if you find it to be untrue.
-- Smoov
Well, that's to be expected, but it's still preferable to not having them. You could put the account bank in the armory, small craft selection in the shuttle bay, and then use the transporter for the operations doffing contact. Just work with what assets you have, it'd be such a large step in the right direction while y'all figured out what you wanted to do with ship interiors.