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1 thing about power creep here, it needs to be earned, 1 way or another. each new addition is a complexity multiplier, and until you have quit a bit of that stuff, your at quite a bit of a disadvantage. but, a perception of the game that can only be gained after hundreds of matches, that can still be the most powerful thing.
but is this all a price to high for pvp competence? well, at least its a mirror of real life. how many competitive sports are easily picked up by anyone interested in them? none, only the best of the best of the best even play on a professional level. it takes a lot of work to get to that point.
its the same thing in game. at least you dont have to sweet, just sit on your TRIBBLE and click and press buttons.
pvp isnt dead at all, but like everything competitive, you need to earn your place. you could argue that kdf pvp is near its last legs though
Hrmm, that's going to be one of those perspective things. Earned. Do you really feel that you earned the stuff? How much effort did you actually have to put in to get the rewards?
Comparing PvP in STO to competitive sports out there...meh, just rubs me the wrong way. Can't see the comparison in the least.
I think the biggest problem is lack of decent matchmaking.
The difference between pug vs weak premade vs strong premade is staggering, but they are all expected to share the same queue system. If I'm a daring soloist who decides to queue up for PvP, my chances are I will end up in a pug (and very rarely catch a weak premade that is short a member) If my fleet (a totally casual funtime fleet) queues up we become a weak premade, and many times should just be considered a pug. If you get a group of people who are from an established, hard core fleet or hand picked their group thru a PvP channel, you have a strong premade, and we are all going to end up head to head on the same battle field.
It's not going to work. It doesn't work. Oh look... it didn't work....
While a strong pug *CAN* beat a strong premade (I've done it) I think we all know what happens most often. Premade rolls pug, pug complains that the fight wasn't fair (I say they mean fun, we are all playing the same rules it is by definition fair, and they are right, the fight isn't fun for anybody) and less people queue for PvP.
Simply put, without some sort of matchmaking, people don't have fun in PvP.
We could talk all day about balance and P2W and shield penetration and romulan boffs and weapons drain... none of those things will fix the fundamental flaw with our system. None of those thing would matter (or at the very least would matter much, much less) if the people who were fighting eachother were of closer skill levels.
Quickest fix: If you are using the public PvP queue, when you queue as a premade you only fight premades. When you queue alone you are most likely to be put into a match with only other pugs. If somebody queues in a partial team, they get their team filled with solo players, but they get second pick of the solo queuers (so solo people are most likely to end up in a pug-only match, but will sometimes be used as filler to speed things up) The drawbacks are an even further split of the current PvP queues, but honestly, without it there is no hope.
Remember, you, me, anybody else on these forums are by definition more "hardcore" than 99.98% of people in the queues. Your average player does not go to the forum. Your average player can't tell you the difference between a dual cannon and a dual heavy cannon. Most people... yeah... you get it...
The other thing most people don't that we do, is bang our heads against the wall assuming that if it isn't working the problem is with us and we can learn enough to get better. Most people try it a couple times, say its broken, and never try again.
Yes, I hear you, these people should try harder and get better or they don't deserve to do well... skill.... yeah... I know... I even agree... save it...
The cold fact is if they don't have PvP to play, they won't. If they don't, Cryptic can't justify spending money. It is just the way it is. In order to get your average Star Trek fan to play PvP they must have their own playground to do it in. More so then any other MMO ever, this game is played mostly by fans of the IP and not "gamers." If you can't embrace that then you will never be happy here.
The above proposal would require the minimum amount of new tech (you don't even need a new queue, just some changes in how the current one puts people together) And have a limited impact on the current system (queues become a bit longer as it no longer just puts 10 people together, but in theory your average match becomes a bit more "fun") For people that want to fight premade vs premade nothing changes at all, they don't have to use the queue system at all.
And yes, it won't fix everything. You will still end up with strong teams and weak teams. You will end up against a whole team that knows eachother and may well be a premade (especially at first, our circle is very tiny) but it should happen far less then it does now. Maybe when I finally talk my care bear fleet mates into PvP they won't get rolled every time by a pug and scared off. Maybe they will keep at it. Maybe their friends will, too. Maybe it will catch on enough that then Cryptic will take some notice and have the justification to spend some revenue on PvP. You have to start somewhere, and this step would be small in cost and potentially large in scope.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
but is this all a price to high for pvp competence? well, at least its a mirror of real life. how many competitive sports are easily picked up by anyone interested in them? none, only the best of the best of the best even play on a professional level. it takes a lot of work to get to that point.
its the same thing in game. at least you dont have to sweet, just sit on your TRIBBLE and click and press buttons.
The obvious point is that this is a computer game - a comparison with "real life" sports and / or the workplace is pretty spurious and self-aggandizing. Most of the casual gamers, I suspect, play STO to relax, rather than wanting a beasting. In any case, "IRL" there are hordes of casual sports players for each professional - the guys who just go to play with their mates from the pub at a local football / rugby league, for example. The problem is that STO's PVP lacks that "casual" tier in its structure. If you want to PVP, you need to go into the arenas and get stomped by the pros.
Until PVP "Pros" get it into their heads that casual play is not morally wrong, PVP will remain on the critical list.
a comparison with "real life" sports and / or the workplace is pretty spurious and self-aggandizing.
Those comparisons are no more spurious and self-serving than these types of characterizations:
If you want to PVP, you need to go into the arenas and get stomped by the pros.
No one is actually bloodied or bruised in PvP.
Until PVP "Pros" get it into their heads that casual play is not morally wrong, PVP will remain on the critical list.
I think the reverse is more likely the case. It is apparently casual player that I see making more accusations of a lack of morals among those who put effort into their PvP game.
In any event... PvP needs some work, but it isn't dead or dying. Most of the complaints about
PVP are motivated by the same player attitudes that complain about STF's: The desire to be Elite, without the effort.
1 thing about power creep here, it needs to be earned, 1 way or another. each new addition is a complexity multiplier, and until you have quit a bit of that stuff, your at quite a bit of a disadvantage. but, a perception of the game that can only be gained after hundreds of matches, that can still be the most powerful thing.
but is this all a price to high for pvp competence? well, at least its a mirror of real life. how many competitive sports are easily picked up by anyone interested in them? none, only the best of the best of the best even play on a professional level. it takes a lot of work to get to that point.
its the same thing in game. at least you dont have to sweet, just sit on your TRIBBLE and click and press buttons.
pvp isnt dead at all, but like everything competitive, you need to earn your place. you could argue that kdf pvp is near its last legs though
Many games provide a flat environment and the players bring experience and ability. A good example is the old Call of Duty, where players goit to pick from flat equipment lists, and the only differences were reflexes, experience, etc. Baseball is like that, where the balls and bats are the same and the home-run fence stays in the same place and its up to the players.
This game is nothing like that. This game is all about items and time-gated boosts. A baseball equivalent would be, noobs start with whiffle bats, while vets get the ability to slow down pitches and move the home-run fence up by 20% and have the experience.
This game is nothing like that. This game is all about items and time-gated boosts. A baseball equivalent would be, noobs start with whiffle bats, while vets get the ability to slow down pitches and move the home-run fence up by 20% and have the experience.
Reading these endless "Turn the game into a PvP game!" threads, I've come to realize that this is "balance" to them.
I don't want to turn it into a PvP game. But I think that PvP is an important thing, and a must in any MMO, and could be one of this games strengths. It's sad to see it get ignored.
Many games provide a flat environment and the players bring experience and ability. A good example is the old Call of Duty, where players goit to pick from flat equipment lists, and the only differences were reflexes, experience, etc. Baseball is like that, where the balls and bats are the same and the home-run fence stays in the same place and its up to the players.
This game is nothing like that. This game is all about items and time-gated boosts. A baseball equivalent would be, noobs start with whiffle bats, while vets get the ability to slow down pitches and move the home-run fence up by 20% and have the experience.
That analogy fails to consider the acquisition of equipment to be akin to physical development. Putting forth the effort to gear up can be considered the equivalent of physical training. An athlete who trains to develop their strength, coordination, and reflexes, will have the advantage over those who don't.
That analogy fails to consider the acquisition of equipment to be akin to physical development. Putting forth the effort to gear up can be considered the equivalent of physical training. An athlete who trains to develop their strength, coordination, and reflexes, will have the advantage over those who don't.
You do the same thing in games. Items are not a substitute for practice and experience.
You do the same thing in games. Items are not a substitute for practice and experience.
Practice and experience are not physical condition. The items in your analogy can just as easily represent the player's physical condition (strength, speed, endurance) in game as it can their equipment (bats, fences).
So I'm croutched down behind a building that overlooks the ravine in frozen city and I glance up at my scanner and see 2 fast movers coming up from behind. I turn just in time to see two Jenners @ about 100 feet and 1 stops to take a firing position only to get hit by the other. I immediately unload an alpha on the stopped one and his explosion takes em both out. By this time our scuffle has attracted the attention of some of the Jenners lancemates so I decide to make a break for better cover, and bolt for the congested area of the city some thousand meters down the hill. Just as I enter open country I notice a centurion powering up right in front of me with his back to me. I guess he was waiting for one of the Jenners to flush me out before springing his surprise on me. By this time I'm full throttle and coming up on his right flank and I quickly jog left putting my path along his left side as I pass. I throw it into reverse and rotate right to put my next strike into his cockpit glass only to have him explode mere meters from me. When the smoke clears I'm already on my way to the closest building where an Atlas comes out of hiding from around it's corner with a Thunderbolt following. By this time I'm saying my prayers as a shower of missles start to rain down my head. I vaporize in a cloud of glory while reading the messages from the enemy combatants.
Practice and experience are not physical condition. The items in your analogy can just as easily represent the player's physical condition (strength, speed, endurance) in game as it can their equipment (bats, fences).
It's mental condition, which is all that matters here. Items are not analogous to ability at all. They can supplant/replace ability, distort skill, etc., but they are not a direct substitute. You put a vet and a noob with the same equipment, the vet is going to win most of the time if there is any skill at all. In most games, a vet with substandard gear will beat a noob with leader gear, as it should be (and that is how it is here too a degree). The problems are when vets have good gear and noobs have the junk, which is also what we have here. There is tremendous distortion, even between people with similar skill/ability, because one of them has more rep/items/zen than the other.
At this point I think you are just arguing to do something, so I'm not going to keep playing along unless you make a credible point.
It's mental condition, which is all that matters here. Items are not analogous to ability at all. They can supplant/replace ability, distort skill, etc., but they are not a direct substitute. You put a vet and a noob with the same equipment, the vet is going to win most of the time if there is any skill at all. In most games, a vet with substandard gear will beat a noob with leader gear, as it should be (and that is how it is here too a degree--the problems are when vets have good gear and noobs have the junk).
When did we start talking about noobs? The point was that 2 players of approximately equal game experience will not be equally matched if, one has put the effort into being as well geared as possible and the other has not. I say that is equivalent to player's in a real world sporting event having an advantage due to their efforts with regard to their physical conditioning.
In the real world if, you don't train, don't expect to win at sports. In STO if, you don't acquire the best items, don't expect to win at PvP.
I want a PvP mode like GW2, where you can pick anything from a list of gear.
In the meantime, GW2 and World of Tanks are fun...
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Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
This is a game, so cannot be really compared to real life. And the reality of sto is that this game is for casual players, not hardcore players like you or all those people that log in everyday for 4 hours a night. The moment you start understanding game mechanics and specializing, you break the game.
lol @ "Get out and go away."
Yeah, those rep and starbase grinds are really casual.
Okay, guys, seriously. PvP is gone; there is little to no skill element left, its a cheese-fest for everyone involved. I'm sure there are quite a few who disagree, but lets face it; Cryptic doesn't care about PvP, and the only people who win in it are the people who don't play fair and spam the broken stuff.
There was *once*, a long time ago, a time when PvP was fun. That time is long over; I think Legacy of Romulus officially killed it. Elachi Black Balls, insane Romulan Beam Overload criticals, endless Scramble DoFFs, Temporal Inversion Field, Yellowstones, Orion Interceptors, Aux2Batt EMPs, Boarding Party DoFFs, invisible Warp Plasma/Theta, God-Mode Bugships, endless flipping spam, Antimatter Spread, and that BLASTED ROMULAN PLACATE; its all cheese. Its not fun anymore, and hasn't been for a long time.
You can all fight over the table scraps of PvP, I for one have given up trying to get Cryptic to fix it and players to fight fair. I'm sick of watching newer players getting bullied by "experienced PvPers" who spend hours telling noobies that "their ideas don't work, you have to do it the way we say". Hell, I left my fleet of three years because of that.
Cheers.
The devs have said PVP will be totally reworked soon. At of of the issues you guys are complaining about have been addressed and are due in the game soon.
Revamp of PvP system
(To happen gradually after launch of Season 8, main focus will be on space gameplay at first)
STO will be first game to implement a new PvP engine developed by Cryptic
PvP-faction for the Reputation System, "PvP Marks" as rewards
All PVP in the new system will be cross faction queues
Matchmaking, e.g. matching people of comparable gear level
Rewards based on participation more than completion
PvP ratings/leaderboard tech is now available
Either replacing current PvP maps or revamping the existing ones
Space combat prototype map (arena style?) to be released on Tribble server in the coming months (2013?) for extensive public testing.
Hrmm, that's going to be one of those perspective things. Earned. Do you really feel that you earned the stuff? How much effort did you actually have to put in to get the rewards?
Comparing PvP in STO to competitive sports out there...meh, just rubs me the wrong way. Can't see the comparison in the least.
of course, i put in the time to grind, i unlocked the item, i earned it. what am i supposed to feel, drained and depressed for having to go through the grinding at all? dont worry i do.
And the reality of sto is that this game is for casual players, not hardcore players like you or all those people that log in everyday for 4 hours a night. The moment you start understanding game mechanics and specializing, you break the game.
Reading these endless "Turn the game into a PvP game!" threads, I've come to realize that this is "balance" to them.
this is what purma noobs casuals with an attitude that prevents them from every trying to improve themselves actually believe.
i wanted to get beter at pvp, so i put in the effort to learn everything i could. it took years to get to this point, and i have enjoyed my self immensely due to my level of compitence. but, it wasn't enough for me to be satisfied with my own improvement, i see more people struggling then not, and thats a problem because pvp is no fun if my opponent cant put up an actual fight. do you know what i did about it? i made my help thread, with my collective knowledge boiled down to some how to posts and a ton of ship builds that are guarantied to work well if you dont know how to put together a competent, effective, and sturdy ship. after people use the builds and start to do well, they inevitably start to figure out WHY the ship works well. thats a watershed moment, they just became competent, and can build their own ships to fit their own styles, bypassing the multi year requirement it took me to get that far.
i truly have 0 sympathy for someone with these attitudes, especially after what ive personally done to fast track competence in anyone that has a desire to pvp, and do it well
I want a PvP mode like GW2, where you can pick anything from a list of gear.
In the meantime, GW2 and World of Tanks are fun...
Yep they need a gw2 like pvp system here. The more PvE creep they add this year the worse pvp will get.
I know we complain "Its the end" all the time like crazy sandwich board wearing moon howlers. Still I think everyone understands PvP doesn't have much future the more creep grind that gets added. New players just have more and more and more and more they need to complete before they "feel" like they are ready.
I say "feel" because what is more important to the long term survival of PvP isn't how New Players are treated by the game. What is more important is how they "feel" they are being treated. Right now new players already feel like they need to get rep to compete. (partly because they are told that by existing players) they feel they need to get fleet gear they feel they need to complete pve missions for some gear... they feel they need lockbox traits... they feel thy need lockbox weapons... they feel they need to earn some lockbox ships, or at least a fleet grade ship.
Cryptic needs to fix pvp in a drastic way if they want it to exist in STO. There is really no need for them to remove it... it has been dying a slow death for 4 years.
Oh on the World of... planes is even more fun then tanks.
Yep they need a gw2 like pvp system here. The more PvE creep they add this year the worse pvp will get.
I know we complain "Its the end" all the time like crazy sandwich board wearing moon howlers. Still I think everyone understands PvP doesn't have much future the more creep grind that gets added. New players just have more and more and more and more they need to complete before they "feel" like they are ready.
I say "feel" because what is more important to the long term survival of PvP isn't how New Players are treated by the game. What is more important is how they "feel" they are being treated. Right now new players already feel like they need to get rep to compete. (partly because they are told that by existing players) they feel they need to get fleet gear they feel they need to complete pve missions for some gear... they feel they need lockbox traits... they feel thy need lockbox weapons... they feel they need to earn some lockbox ships, or at least a fleet grade ship.
Cryptic needs to fix pvp in a drastic way if they want it to exist in STO. There is really no need for them to remove it... it has been dying a slow death for 4 years.
.
All of this is true.
Rep system is acually kicking cryptic in the TRIBBLE, because Im sure peopel woudl love to pay for more toons, and more gear for those toons, but the fact that any new character you make will be at least a month away in cooldown timers alone to reach the reputation passives and skills they feel liek they need to be even (even if only on paper) - not to mention the rigmoral of doing the grinding. 20 hours is a ridiculous cooldown timer, and if I didnt have to deal with that, I would have more characters and spend more money making them look nice. I have 3 level 1's that I just cant be assed to level. Money saved I guess.
Arena net - thats a company that knows how to make an enjoyable accessible pvp system. There just arent enough players in sto pvp to make this an inaccessible elitest game.
Here is one of the problems with PvP (for the most part). After reading the above posts, I wanted to see what all the complaining was about, and here is what happened: I queued into a PuG FvF and got stomped, BAD! Two of the opposing players were Rom and a mix of others and there were 2 Roms on our team and I thought that this would be a pretty well balanced match. Wrong!! Only two of their players did any real fighting and they made up for the rest. I had turned on my parser (ACT) right before to record the mission. The most powerful of the two Roms did this:
CHARDPS DPS AVERAGE
34,123.33 34,123.33 682.47
34k DPS, with only Dual Disruptor Heavy cannons-Rapid Fire I. No leech, or any other weapons! How they did this I don't know.
My Incoming damage from the two were:
DAMAGE BASEDAMAGE
882,136 1,935,232
Now, I'm not driving a Miranda or shuttle here. A Fleet Avenger with Fleet shields, Dual Fleet Neutroninums, rep gear and Uni consoles, +fleet AP beams and dual heavy cannons. I'm running 13k shields and 57k hull, and it was all tissue paper. And don't get me going about pet spam!! I'm not angry, and I love this game and all It represents. I'll keep PvPing because it is a lot of fun to go ship to ship with someone maybe halfway around the world, but it does need to be fixed somehow.
Oil, because Matter-Antimatter reactors haven't been invented yet... Please Hurry!
Comments
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
1 thing about power creep here, it needs to be earned, 1 way or another. each new addition is a complexity multiplier, and until you have quit a bit of that stuff, your at quite a bit of a disadvantage. but, a perception of the game that can only be gained after hundreds of matches, that can still be the most powerful thing.
but is this all a price to high for pvp competence? well, at least its a mirror of real life. how many competitive sports are easily picked up by anyone interested in them? none, only the best of the best of the best even play on a professional level. it takes a lot of work to get to that point.
its the same thing in game. at least you dont have to sweet, just sit on your TRIBBLE and click and press buttons.
pvp isnt dead at all, but like everything competitive, you need to earn your place. you could argue that kdf pvp is near its last legs though
Hrmm, that's going to be one of those perspective things. Earned. Do you really feel that you earned the stuff? How much effort did you actually have to put in to get the rewards?
Comparing PvP in STO to competitive sports out there...meh, just rubs me the wrong way. Can't see the comparison in the least.
The difference between pug vs weak premade vs strong premade is staggering, but they are all expected to share the same queue system. If I'm a daring soloist who decides to queue up for PvP, my chances are I will end up in a pug (and very rarely catch a weak premade that is short a member) If my fleet (a totally casual funtime fleet) queues up we become a weak premade, and many times should just be considered a pug. If you get a group of people who are from an established, hard core fleet or hand picked their group thru a PvP channel, you have a strong premade, and we are all going to end up head to head on the same battle field.
It's not going to work. It doesn't work. Oh look... it didn't work....
While a strong pug *CAN* beat a strong premade (I've done it) I think we all know what happens most often. Premade rolls pug, pug complains that the fight wasn't fair (I say they mean fun, we are all playing the same rules it is by definition fair, and they are right, the fight isn't fun for anybody) and less people queue for PvP.
Simply put, without some sort of matchmaking, people don't have fun in PvP.
We could talk all day about balance and P2W and shield penetration and romulan boffs and weapons drain... none of those things will fix the fundamental flaw with our system. None of those thing would matter (or at the very least would matter much, much less) if the people who were fighting eachother were of closer skill levels.
Quickest fix: If you are using the public PvP queue, when you queue as a premade you only fight premades. When you queue alone you are most likely to be put into a match with only other pugs. If somebody queues in a partial team, they get their team filled with solo players, but they get second pick of the solo queuers (so solo people are most likely to end up in a pug-only match, but will sometimes be used as filler to speed things up) The drawbacks are an even further split of the current PvP queues, but honestly, without it there is no hope.
Remember, you, me, anybody else on these forums are by definition more "hardcore" than 99.98% of people in the queues. Your average player does not go to the forum. Your average player can't tell you the difference between a dual cannon and a dual heavy cannon. Most people... yeah... you get it...
The other thing most people don't that we do, is bang our heads against the wall assuming that if it isn't working the problem is with us and we can learn enough to get better. Most people try it a couple times, say its broken, and never try again.
Yes, I hear you, these people should try harder and get better or they don't deserve to do well... skill.... yeah... I know... I even agree... save it...
The cold fact is if they don't have PvP to play, they won't. If they don't, Cryptic can't justify spending money. It is just the way it is. In order to get your average Star Trek fan to play PvP they must have their own playground to do it in. More so then any other MMO ever, this game is played mostly by fans of the IP and not "gamers." If you can't embrace that then you will never be happy here.
The above proposal would require the minimum amount of new tech (you don't even need a new queue, just some changes in how the current one puts people together) And have a limited impact on the current system (queues become a bit longer as it no longer just puts 10 people together, but in theory your average match becomes a bit more "fun") For people that want to fight premade vs premade nothing changes at all, they don't have to use the queue system at all.
And yes, it won't fix everything. You will still end up with strong teams and weak teams. You will end up against a whole team that knows eachother and may well be a premade (especially at first, our circle is very tiny) but it should happen far less then it does now. Maybe when I finally talk my care bear fleet mates into PvP they won't get rolled every time by a pug and scared off. Maybe they will keep at it. Maybe their friends will, too. Maybe it will catch on enough that then Cryptic will take some notice and have the justification to spend some revenue on PvP. You have to start somewhere, and this step would be small in cost and potentially large in scope.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
The obvious point is that this is a computer game - a comparison with "real life" sports and / or the workplace is pretty spurious and self-aggandizing. Most of the casual gamers, I suspect, play STO to relax, rather than wanting a beasting. In any case, "IRL" there are hordes of casual sports players for each professional - the guys who just go to play with their mates from the pub at a local football / rugby league, for example. The problem is that STO's PVP lacks that "casual" tier in its structure. If you want to PVP, you need to go into the arenas and get stomped by the pros.
Until PVP "Pros" get it into their heads that casual play is not morally wrong, PVP will remain on the critical list.
Those comparisons are no more spurious and self-serving than these types of characterizations:
No one is actually bloodied or bruised in PvP.
I think the reverse is more likely the case. It is apparently casual player that I see making more accusations of a lack of morals among those who put effort into their PvP game.
In any event... PvP needs some work, but it isn't dead or dying. Most of the complaints about
PVP are motivated by the same player attitudes that complain about STF's: The desire to be Elite, without the effort.
/speechless
This game is nothing like that. This game is all about items and time-gated boosts. A baseball equivalent would be, noobs start with whiffle bats, while vets get the ability to slow down pitches and move the home-run fence up by 20% and have the experience.
Reading these endless "Turn the game into a PvP game!" threads, I've come to realize that this is "balance" to them.
That analogy fails to consider the acquisition of equipment to be akin to physical development. Putting forth the effort to gear up can be considered the equivalent of physical training. An athlete who trains to develop their strength, coordination, and reflexes, will have the advantage over those who don't.
More hyperbole, please.
Practice and experience are not physical condition. The items in your analogy can just as easily represent the player's physical condition (strength, speed, endurance) in game as it can their equipment (bats, fences).
"good game" was all that was said.
Oh wait, we're talking STO, sorry I'm still reliving yesterdays PvP battle.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
At this point I think you are just arguing to do something, so I'm not going to keep playing along unless you make a credible point.
When did we start talking about noobs? The point was that 2 players of approximately equal game experience will not be equally matched if, one has put the effort into being as well geared as possible and the other has not. I say that is equivalent to player's in a real world sporting event having an advantage due to their efforts with regard to their physical conditioning.
In the real world if, you don't train, don't expect to win at sports. In STO if, you don't acquire the best items, don't expect to win at PvP.
It's not rocket science.
Less denial, please.
More irony, please.
In the meantime, GW2 and World of Tanks are fun...
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
lol @ "Get out and go away."
Yeah, those rep and starbase grinds are really casual.
The devs have said PVP will be totally reworked soon. At of of the issues you guys are complaining about have been addressed and are due in the game soon.
Revamp of PvP system
(To happen gradually after launch of Season 8, main focus will be on space gameplay at first)
STO will be first game to implement a new PvP engine developed by Cryptic
PvP-faction for the Reputation System, "PvP Marks" as rewards
All PVP in the new system will be cross faction queues
Matchmaking, e.g. matching people of comparable gear level
Rewards based on participation more than completion
PvP ratings/leaderboard tech is now available
Either replacing current PvP maps or revamping the existing ones
Space combat prototype map (arena style?) to be released on Tribble server in the coming months (2013?) for extensive public testing.
Transferring existing PvE maps (Facility 4028 amongst others) to ground PvP maps,
possibly with capture-the-flag mod
King of the Hill PvP map for space and/or ground
Ground combat may have Battleground-style development in long-term
Possible: Starbase PvP Challenges
Fleet vs Fleet (KDF vs FED) territory control game ("controlling and or harvesting a vast variety of resources").
Kanharn's Memory Alpha.
of course, i put in the time to grind, i unlocked the item, i earned it. what am i supposed to feel, drained and depressed for having to go through the grinding at all? dont worry i do.
is everyone trying to pick this apart completely missing this sentence?
im not trying to equate getting good at a video game with real world blood, sweet and tears, they merely have a token similarity.
this is what purma noobs casuals with an attitude that prevents them from every trying to improve themselves actually believe.
i wanted to get beter at pvp, so i put in the effort to learn everything i could. it took years to get to this point, and i have enjoyed my self immensely due to my level of compitence. but, it wasn't enough for me to be satisfied with my own improvement, i see more people struggling then not, and thats a problem because pvp is no fun if my opponent cant put up an actual fight. do you know what i did about it? i made my help thread, with my collective knowledge boiled down to some how to posts and a ton of ship builds that are guarantied to work well if you dont know how to put together a competent, effective, and sturdy ship. after people use the builds and start to do well, they inevitably start to figure out WHY the ship works well. thats a watershed moment, they just became competent, and can build their own ships to fit their own styles, bypassing the multi year requirement it took me to get that far.
i truly have 0 sympathy for someone with these attitudes, especially after what ive personally done to fast track competence in anyone that has a desire to pvp, and do it well
Yep they need a gw2 like pvp system here. The more PvE creep they add this year the worse pvp will get.
I know we complain "Its the end" all the time like crazy sandwich board wearing moon howlers. Still I think everyone understands PvP doesn't have much future the more creep grind that gets added. New players just have more and more and more and more they need to complete before they "feel" like they are ready.
I say "feel" because what is more important to the long term survival of PvP isn't how New Players are treated by the game. What is more important is how they "feel" they are being treated. Right now new players already feel like they need to get rep to compete. (partly because they are told that by existing players) they feel they need to get fleet gear they feel they need to complete pve missions for some gear... they feel they need lockbox traits... they feel thy need lockbox weapons... they feel they need to earn some lockbox ships, or at least a fleet grade ship.
Cryptic needs to fix pvp in a drastic way if they want it to exist in STO. There is really no need for them to remove it... it has been dying a slow death for 4 years.
Oh on the World of... planes is even more fun then tanks.
All of this is true.
Rep system is acually kicking cryptic in the TRIBBLE, because Im sure peopel woudl love to pay for more toons, and more gear for those toons, but the fact that any new character you make will be at least a month away in cooldown timers alone to reach the reputation passives and skills they feel liek they need to be even (even if only on paper) - not to mention the rigmoral of doing the grinding. 20 hours is a ridiculous cooldown timer, and if I didnt have to deal with that, I would have more characters and spend more money making them look nice. I have 3 level 1's that I just cant be assed to level. Money saved I guess.
Arena net - thats a company that knows how to make an enjoyable accessible pvp system. There just arent enough players in sto pvp to make this an inaccessible elitest game.
CHARDPS DPS AVERAGE
34,123.33 34,123.33 682.47
34k DPS, with only Dual Disruptor Heavy cannons-Rapid Fire I. No leech, or any other weapons! How they did this I don't know.
My Incoming damage from the two were:
DAMAGE BASEDAMAGE
882,136 1,935,232
Now, I'm not driving a Miranda or shuttle here. A Fleet Avenger with Fleet shields, Dual Fleet Neutroninums, rep gear and Uni consoles, +fleet AP beams and dual heavy cannons. I'm running 13k shields and 57k hull, and it was all tissue paper. And don't get me going about pet spam!! I'm not angry, and I love this game and all It represents. I'll keep PvPing because it is a lot of fun to go ship to ship with someone maybe halfway around the world, but it does need to be fixed somehow.