end game pvp is not casual, its too complex, theres too many things to click on and cycle, it moves to fast, and timing is to important.
what is more casual, and very fun in its own way, is tier 2 and 3 pvp. i would love if they would give us a way to stop leveling at 20 or 30, so i could keep a character that level to just play the pvp at that level. absent is all the power creep and most of the complexity, it was very fun doing almost nothing but pvp wile leveling my romulan after LoR
It is a hard case indeed. Unfortunately, people are more interested in what wins over being themselves and you see clone after clone of cheese spammers. I find that by being myself and using tactics that I invented to win is much more satisfying and fair to the other players.
It wasn't just CRF1 with DHC's. I'll bet they were buffed up with APA, TF, APO3 , FOMM and CRF1. Also their other team members were healing them and throwing our SNB and other abilities to slow you down.
Threw in a DEM for the lulz probably too. Ive seen many engineer heavy scorts (mogais, steamrunners, etc) doing this.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The devs have said PVP will be totally reworked soon. At of of the issues you guys are complaining about have been addressed and are due in the game soon.
Revamp of PvP system
(To happen gradually after launch of Season 8, main focus will be on space gameplay at first)
STO will be first game to implement a new PvP engine developed by Cryptic
PvP-faction for the Reputation System, "PvP Marks" as rewards
All PVP in the new system will be cross faction queues
Matchmaking, e.g. matching people of comparable gear level
Rewards based on participation more than completion
PvP ratings/leaderboard tech is now available
Either replacing current PvP maps or revamping the existing ones
Space combat prototype map (arena style?) to be released on Tribble server in the coming months (2013?) for extensive public testing.
If PVP is ever going to be balanced, then it needs to have different rules then PVE.
To start (just for PVP):
Shields should have +40% resists to a damage type, instead of +20.
Adaptive Fleet shields stay the same, but RESA and RESB are increased to 20% resists.
Energy Type Specific armor (the 2 types and 4 types) are buffed, neutroniums stay the same.
Add single-type armor, with similar effectiveness to monotanium. Add a 20% resist against procs.
Procs and abilities do not stack - APB, FOMM, Disruptor Breach, etc are limited to one activation on any single target.
Subsystem targeting needs a significant buff, so that it actually makes a difference to fly a science vessel and use it.
Add more team support abilities like cruiser commands, but as BOFF abilities.
Basically, anything which only resists a specific damage type should be buffed, while generals should stay the same. It should be profitable to bring teams using different damage types, or even to carry 2 types on a ship. There should be no single build that doesn't have an easily accessible hard counter, as well as a hard weakness. Variety needs to be enforced to keep interest high.
I always loved the complexity of STO even when i just started this game, even in PvE, now in PvP.
There seems like there are infinite combinations of builds these days, tweaks, doffs, consoles, ships and powerlevels etc.
Its just simply amazing, but I do get that relative new comers to the game (and PvP) have no idea what is better or worse then something else. This seems to be the direct result of long time elements of this game not being balanced at all.
Ive played this game for a long time before i got into Pvp so I do know most of the mechanics.
Just simple imbalances like Acc x 3 versus CritD x3 weapons, the real world diferences are just insane. There is little advantage to go CritD x3 (Did some calculating, even with the improved romulan crit we are looking at a maximum flat increase in damage of like 6-8% From CritDx3 over Acc x3 in the ideal situation where you tractored someone all the way down to 0% bonus defense (which seems to be rare these days with everyone running dampeners and EptE buffed crazy, even tractor can often not stop ppl anymore.
Sorry I'm starting to rant, what I was trying to say, massive imbalances since start of this game, it was always improperly balanced to begin with.
What else do we have, oh yes another wild example: Combat versus Normal versus Hyper engines, nothing to say other then Hypers have always been king. As far as I remember my old Defiant was able to run 53-56 ish back in Season 2 or so on lowest base setting, making all other engines useless to begin with. And now, ppl run 60+ with 15 base.
Another example, regenerative shields versus covariant shields, sadly Shield capacity has proved over and over that it supercedes over regenerative shields at all times, especially if you include the fact called shield resistance over that specified capacity.
People will argue, but even STOKED was right about this particular fact.
Well just only a very small portion of how STO has been massively imbalanced to the very core of the game since... the start of this game. And people are really complaining about all the small and futile aspects build around that. lol
Also dont be too grim, even if the current game gets more and more complicated, we also got good things in return. Purchasable respec tokens, no longer having to respec every time you change ships or weapon types with 30k of Starfleet Merits
PvE maybe is aimed at casual player, because it (3k dil/day) makes it longer to play. Nothing more. PvP as is - nope. Unless you can find a team of people with simmilar stuff grinded and simmilar enemy. Otherwise PvP is not aimed at casual player.
I for once always wonder why poeple don't play low-level PvP? Ok, it's endless "create toon/delete toon/create toon" yoyo, but then all you need in the low level PvP is... playing it. There is no serious P2W only one C-Store ship per level, no reputation, no fleet ships, no P2W super-ship like Bug.
All you need is some EC for basic stuff (can get all you need with one VA doing some missions and selling stuff) and that's it. Even DOFFs are not needed cause. Low level PvP is still the same it was before F2P. It's still fun.
Yet queues are empty, all PvP players are sitting on the VA, spending lots of time and money to grind stuff they despise and constantly moan about.
I'm not sure where folks are seeing PvP in STO as anything but casual.
You get rewards whether you win or lose.
You lose nothing if you lose.
There's no tracking of Win-Loss unless you're participating separately with Hilbert's thing.
It's just casual wham bam pew pew unless you're deciding to make it more by doing something outside of the what the devs gave us...
...and just because you've tried to make it something more than casual, doesn't change that's what it is.
People can take the most casual things to the extreme...doesn't change that it's a casual thing.
New Fed players should not be going in PvP thinking they gonna kick KDF TRIBBLE$ like they do in PvE to begin with... then PvE fantasy turns into PvP reality to teach them a historic lesson which they have never forgot then they come into the forums and make stupid threads like these.
Instead of making a ''Kill off PvP'' thread like a thousands of Fed PetaQ's have done b4, u should be asking Cryptic to make PvP better which isn't so hard to do by adding new maps, modes and giving out better rewards. all they have to do is make PvP maps that similar to their PvE counter parts.
When it comes to fighting in PvP and people crying why they die very fast, it's becuase they don't have any good equipement and don't have any Skills whatsoever to compete to begin with. same with World of War-craft... If u use inferior tech with PvE skills in a PvP battlefield then u asking to be killed.
If PVP is ever going to be balanced, then it needs to have different rules then PVE.
To start (just for PVP):
Shields should have +40% resists to a damage type, instead of +20.
Adaptive Fleet shields stay the same, but RESA and RESB are increased to 20% resists.
Energy Type Specific armor (the 2 types and 4 types) are buffed, neutroniums stay the same.
Add single-type armor, with similar effectiveness to monotanium. Add a 20% resist against procs.
Are you mad? Shield tanking in PvP is rampant enough as it is, boosting resistances that much will only make things even worse. When it really comes down to it, the problem is this; player resistance/defense stats are too high, and spike/criticals are too powerful. You end up with a game where nobody dies except from unfairly high weapon spikes.
The devs have said PVP will be totally reworked soon. At of of the issues you guys are complaining about have been addressed and are due in the game soon.
Revamp of PvP system
(To happen gradually after launch of Season 8, main focus will be on space gameplay at first)
STO will be first game to implement a new PvP engine developed by Cryptic
PvP-faction for the Reputation System, "PvP Marks" as rewards
All PVP in the new system will be cross faction queues
Matchmaking, e.g. matching people of comparable gear level
Rewards based on participation more than completion
PvP ratings/leaderboard tech is now available
Either replacing current PvP maps or revamping the existing ones
Space combat prototype map (arena style?) to be released on Tribble server in the coming months (2013?) for extensive public testing.
possibly with capture-the-flag mod
King of the Hill PvP map for space and/or ground
Ground combat may have Battleground-style development in long-term
Possible: Starbase PvP Challenges
Fleet vs Fleet (KDF vs FED) territory control game ("controlling and or harvesting a vast variety of resources").
LOL if you believe that. The Devs may have stated that they intend to fix PvP *someday*, but its open and common knowledge that they generally don't care about PvP whatsoever.
Are you mad? Shield tanking in PvP is rampant enough as it is, boosting resistances that much will only make things even worse. When it really comes down to it, the problem is this; player resistance/defense stats are too high, and spike/criticals are too powerful. You end up with a game where nobody dies except from unfairly high weapon spikes.
The days of the shield tank are over. Welcome transphasics demfaw and gravity well.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Hrmmm, in the end - I do not think one can say that PvP is dead. One can't speak for everybody, one can only speak for themselves. So it would be a bit silly to say that PvP is dead, but on the other hand - it would be easy to see why somebody might say that PvP is dead to them.
Also dont be too grim, even if the current game gets more and more complicated, we also got good things in return. Purchasable respec tokens, no longer having to respec every time you change ships or weapon types with 30k of Starfleet Merits
somehow i miss these old day, was maybe more complicated, but more fun and self rewarding when done right.
so? is this the end? are we witnessing the end of sto pvp, and maybe sto at all?
the star trek game with the biggest hope so far.
is this the last star trek game?
are we dinausor?
when did the commet come?
Wow, been away a long time and thought I'd come back for a looksie. I see that the same ol' PvP arguments are still being made (on both sides). And, Cryptic is still dangling the PvP carrot.
Yawn.
ADMIRAL Zed Pyrol Saif
Fleet: -NOVA CORE-
Ship: Dawn of Valor
Fleet Tactical Escort, Defiant Class
Bragging Righsts: Keybinds for Dummies
They'll "fix" PvP as soon as they figure out how to make as much money as they do with PvE. The problem is, the only way they know how to make money is by selling more and more OP items to make PvE even easier than it already is. It's a myopic business model that's sure to bite them in the rear eventually, but casual players spend the most money and they don't do PvP. Though I don't think they realize where all the dilithium comes from that those casual players spend their cash on. It's the hardcore players that grind the dilithium. They do STF's and PvP so they can spend it on Zen to buy zen-store items. Without the hardcore players, the dilithium supply goes down. Casual players won't spend money on dilithium if it gets too expensive compared to generating their own. The hardcore players support the casual players and vice versa. Nuke PvP and the dilithium exchange will take a dive. Instead, PvP should be a haven for those willing and able to put in the time. They could scale the dilithium rewards based on the number of matches you play or scale to how many consecutive wins you get. They need to balance PvP however. It won't work they way it is now. Heal tanking (because we know that shields don't protect anything) and OMGWTF spike damage needs to go.
By the way, if you want an interesting challenge, and a change of pace in PvE, take off all of your boff and captain abilities. Rely only on manual shield/subsystem distribution and common ship abilities (i.e. evasive, cloak, ramming, etc.). It makes the game harder without increasing difficulty and makes you feel like you're commanding a ship rather than popping abilities and macros.
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Comments
what is more casual, and very fun in its own way, is tier 2 and 3 pvp. i would love if they would give us a way to stop leveling at 20 or 30, so i could keep a character that level to just play the pvp at that level. absent is all the power creep and most of the complexity, it was very fun doing almost nothing but pvp wile leveling my romulan after LoR
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Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
Threw in a DEM for the lulz probably too. Ive seen many engineer heavy scorts (mogais, steamrunners, etc) doing this.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
R.I.P
lol you actually believe that is in the works?
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To start (just for PVP):
Shields should have +40% resists to a damage type, instead of +20.
Adaptive Fleet shields stay the same, but RESA and RESB are increased to 20% resists.
Energy Type Specific armor (the 2 types and 4 types) are buffed, neutroniums stay the same.
Add single-type armor, with similar effectiveness to monotanium. Add a 20% resist against procs.
Procs and abilities do not stack - APB, FOMM, Disruptor Breach, etc are limited to one activation on any single target.
Subsystem targeting needs a significant buff, so that it actually makes a difference to fly a science vessel and use it.
Add more team support abilities like cruiser commands, but as BOFF abilities.
Basically, anything which only resists a specific damage type should be buffed, while generals should stay the same. It should be profitable to bring teams using different damage types, or even to carry 2 types on a ship. There should be no single build that doesn't have an easily accessible hard counter, as well as a hard weakness. Variety needs to be enforced to keep interest high.
ah, c'mon.... give him at least around 6 months of sweet-dreams before starting to shatter his hopes ^^ ;D...
There seems like there are infinite combinations of builds these days, tweaks, doffs, consoles, ships and powerlevels etc.
Its just simply amazing, but I do get that relative new comers to the game (and PvP) have no idea what is better or worse then something else. This seems to be the direct result of long time elements of this game not being balanced at all.
Ive played this game for a long time before i got into Pvp so I do know most of the mechanics.
Just simple imbalances like Acc x 3 versus CritD x3 weapons, the real world diferences are just insane. There is little advantage to go CritD x3 (Did some calculating, even with the improved romulan crit we are looking at a maximum flat increase in damage of like 6-8% From CritDx3 over Acc x3 in the ideal situation where you tractored someone all the way down to 0% bonus defense (which seems to be rare these days with everyone running dampeners and EptE buffed crazy, even tractor can often not stop ppl anymore.
Sorry I'm starting to rant, what I was trying to say, massive imbalances since start of this game, it was always improperly balanced to begin with.
What else do we have, oh yes another wild example: Combat versus Normal versus Hyper engines, nothing to say other then Hypers have always been king. As far as I remember my old Defiant was able to run 53-56 ish back in Season 2 or so on lowest base setting, making all other engines useless to begin with. And now, ppl run 60+ with 15 base.
Another example, regenerative shields versus covariant shields, sadly Shield capacity has proved over and over that it supercedes over regenerative shields at all times, especially if you include the fact called shield resistance over that specified capacity.
People will argue, but even STOKED was right about this particular fact.
Well just only a very small portion of how STO has been massively imbalanced to the very core of the game since... the start of this game. And people are really complaining about all the small and futile aspects build around that. lol
Also dont be too grim, even if the current game gets more and more complicated, we also got good things in return. Purchasable respec tokens, no longer having to respec every time you change ships or weapon types with 30k of Starfleet Merits
I for once always wonder why poeple don't play low-level PvP? Ok, it's endless "create toon/delete toon/create toon" yoyo, but then all you need in the low level PvP is... playing it. There is no serious P2W only one C-Store ship per level, no reputation, no fleet ships, no P2W super-ship like Bug.
All you need is some EC for basic stuff (can get all you need with one VA doing some missions and selling stuff) and that's it. Even DOFFs are not needed cause. Low level PvP is still the same it was before F2P. It's still fun.
Yet queues are empty, all PvP players are sitting on the VA, spending lots of time and money to grind stuff they despise and constantly moan about.
Go low level and have fun.
You get rewards whether you win or lose.
You lose nothing if you lose.
There's no tracking of Win-Loss unless you're participating separately with Hilbert's thing.
It's just casual wham bam pew pew unless you're deciding to make it more by doing something outside of the what the devs gave us...
...and just because you've tried to make it something more than casual, doesn't change that's what it is.
People can take the most casual things to the extreme...doesn't change that it's a casual thing.
Instead of making a ''Kill off PvP'' thread like a thousands of Fed PetaQ's have done b4, u should be asking Cryptic to make PvP better which isn't so hard to do by adding new maps, modes and giving out better rewards. all they have to do is make PvP maps that similar to their PvE counter parts.
When it comes to fighting in PvP and people crying why they die very fast, it's becuase they don't have any good equipement and don't have any Skills whatsoever to compete to begin with. same with World of War-craft... If u use inferior tech with PvE skills in a PvP battlefield then u asking to be killed.
Are you mad? Shield tanking in PvP is rampant enough as it is, boosting resistances that much will only make things even worse. When it really comes down to it, the problem is this; player resistance/defense stats are too high, and spike/criticals are too powerful. You end up with a game where nobody dies except from unfairly high weapon spikes.
LOL if you believe that. The Devs may have stated that they intend to fix PvP *someday*, but its open and common knowledge that they generally don't care about PvP whatsoever.
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pvp will be reworked at season 5
oh wait.....
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
The days of the shield tank are over. Welcome transphasics demfaw and gravity well.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
somehow i miss these old day, was maybe more complicated, but more fun and self rewarding when done right.
so? is this the end? are we witnessing the end of sto pvp, and maybe sto at all?
the star trek game with the biggest hope so far.
is this the last star trek game?
are we dinausor?
when did the commet come?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Yawn.
Fleet: -NOVA CORE-
Ship: Dawn of Valor
Fleet Tactical Escort, Defiant Class
Bragging Righsts: Keybinds for Dummies
By the way, if you want an interesting challenge, and a change of pace in PvE, take off all of your boff and captain abilities. Rely only on manual shield/subsystem distribution and common ship abilities (i.e. evasive, cloak, ramming, etc.). It makes the game harder without increasing difficulty and makes you feel like you're commanding a ship rather than popping abilities and macros.