Agreed, I have no intention of grinding more; unless it's for pvp toons. Other games have it and it's keep me from playing the (little) content I actually wanna play! Meh.
All I can say is I feel the same way as the OP. I have 5 FED, 2 KDF, and 2 Romulan (1 FED and 1 KDF). 9 Characters. I originally planned to grind rep on my main FED and my main KDF. I've done it on my FED and about half way on my KDF. I just can't get into it though. Once was enough. My main FED only has Nukara rep because of the Risa bird sales. There are a number of cool things I'd like to have on a character, but I just have no interest in repeating the grind.
If Cryptic/PWE need a motivation, you know how you have a shared bank account? How about paying Zen to make your account a "team" and get shared rep, bank account, maybe something else I'm sure others have requested. Maybe like "mentoring" your other alts.
Obviously there might be a cross-faction issue, but I don't think that's a big deal.
If Cryptic/PWE need a motivation, you know how you have a shared bank account? How about paying Zen to make your account a "team" and get shared rep, bank account, maybe something else I'm sure others have requested. Maybe like "mentoring" your other alts.
Obviously there might be a cross-faction issue, but I don't think that's a big deal.
Less grinding, more money, what could go wrong?
That's actually not a bad idea at all, I'd support this!
I have been playing on line games since they came out. Grinding Kills games. When you have to grind, you don't get to actually enjoy the games story lines, and to do other things you may enjoy. I have seen way to many Great games go south because of the grind. I hope the suits realize it will be more profitable for them to kill the grind, so people will buy more Zen and Dl. This is something they will understand, kill the grind, increase profit margins, that's what they understand. I can't stand playing nay more, three feds, two roms, one Klingon. I am bored, and it's work to play the grind, that's when I call it quits, when a game is no longer enjoyable, and it becomes work. If they are going to keep it a grind, make it like the roms. At least you get a planet, dailies, and PVE marks. So there is some diversity there. It's still a grind, but it is not as bad. they should do that for every all the reps if they are going to keep it a grind. they actually need to play the game. I would love to be their boss, I would be like, ok, get to level 50, grind out two reps to t5 then you can go home LOL!
Reputation passives, activated abilities, and equipment are all necessary for high-end gameplay. Leveling those reputations costs players nothing but time (as the only limiting factor is marks). But that time is not only gated by the number of daily runs needed to get the marks (unless you happen to be able to play specifically during the bonus mark event every day), but also by a 20 hour forced wait between projects as well.
As such, completing all three reputations to full on one character can be rewarding. However, once finished, being faced with the daunting task of doing it again on another character is a complete deterrent.
The release of the new Romulan Scimitar Dreadnaught pack made me realize this recently. I like the ship. I want the ship. I'm willing to purchase and pay 5000 zen for the ship, as well as the hundreds of thousands of dilithium needed to outfit it.... But I'm not willing to spend 4 hours each day grinding for the next 2-3 months to get the reputation needed to equip the ship.
The part I don't understand is... Cryptic should want to make money. We want Cryptic to make money as well, so the game can stay alive and active as long as possible. Cryptic makes their money off of Zen and Dilithium, neither of which is needed UNTIL AFTER the reputation system is completed (as space equipment costs a lot of dilithium, but nothing while leveling the reputation requires any).
So here I sit, as do many others.... with a Klingon... with a Romulan... with other Federation characters... with a wishlist of things to purchase using dilithium and Zen, with the only thing standing in my way of purchasing them in the form of a huge time sink.
I did it with one character. I won't do it again. And I can't help but wonder why an account-based reputation system isn't in place yet. Each player will still need to run STF's and other PvE activities to get the marks to purchase the items they need, and plenty of times.
There's money that people want to spend... money for Cryptic to make... if they'd just let us do it without all the frustration. Doing reputation once is enough.
I cant agree more with all of this ^^
I WANT to make new toons, i WANT to buy new ships for them, but the thought alone of going through the WHOLE REP again, and again, and again, stops me from doing so
Which I SUSPECT Cryptic will eventually simply lose money on. Suit it yourself, dont listn to the playerbase, who cares these days.
Reputation passives, activated abilities, and equipment are all necessary for high-end gameplay. Leveling those reputations costs players nothing but time (as the only limiting factor is marks). But that time is not only gated by the number of daily runs needed to get the marks (unless you happen to be able to play specifically during the bonus mark event every day), but also by a 20 hour forced wait between projects as well.
As such, completing all three reputations to full on one character can be rewarding. However, once finished, being faced with the daunting task of doing it again on another character is a complete deterrent.
The release of the new Romulan Scimitar Dreadnaught pack made me realize this recently. I like the ship. I want the ship. I'm willing to purchase and pay 5000 zen for the ship, as well as the hundreds of thousands of dilithium needed to outfit it.... But I'm not willing to spend 4 hours each day grinding for the next 2-3 months to get the reputation needed to equip the ship.
The part I don't understand is... Cryptic should want to make money. We want Cryptic to make money as well, so the game can stay alive and active as long as possible. Cryptic makes their money off of Zen and Dilithium, neither of which is needed UNTIL AFTER the reputation system is completed (as space equipment costs a lot of dilithium, but nothing while leveling the reputation requires any).
So here I sit, as do many others.... with a Klingon... with a Romulan... with other Federation characters... with a wishlist of things to purchase using dilithium and Zen, with the only thing standing in my way of purchasing them in the form of a huge time sink.
I did it with one character. I won't do it again. And I can't help but wonder why an account-based reputation system isn't in place yet. Each player will still need to run STF's and other PvE activities to get the marks to purchase the items they need, and plenty of times.
There's money that people want to spend... money for Cryptic to make... if they'd just let us do it without all the frustration. Doing reputation once is enough.
Reputation passives, activated abilities, and equipment are all necessary for high-end gameplay. Leveling those reputations costs players nothing but time (as the only limiting factor is marks). But that time is not only gated by the number of daily runs needed to get the marks (unless you happen to be able to play specifically during the bonus mark event every day), but also by a 20 hour forced wait between projects as well.
As such, completing all three reputations to full on one character can be rewarding. However, once finished, being faced with the daunting task of doing it again on another character is a complete deterrent.
The release of the new Romulan Scimitar Dreadnaught pack made me realize this recently. I like the ship. I want the ship. I'm willing to purchase and pay 5000 zen for the ship, as well as the hundreds of thousands of dilithium needed to outfit it.... But I'm not willing to spend 4 hours each day grinding for the next 2-3 months to get the reputation needed to equip the ship.
The part I don't understand is... Cryptic should want to make money. We want Cryptic to make money as well, so the game can stay alive and active as long as possible. Cryptic makes their money off of Zen and Dilithium, neither of which is needed UNTIL AFTER the reputation system is completed (as space equipment costs a lot of dilithium, but nothing while leveling the reputation requires any).
So here I sit, as do many others.... with a Klingon... with a Romulan... with other Federation characters... with a wishlist of things to purchase using dilithium and Zen, with the only thing standing in my way of purchasing them in the form of a huge time sink.
I did it with one character. I won't do it again. And I can't help but wonder why an account-based reputation system isn't in place yet. Each player will still need to run STF's and other PvE activities to get the marks to purchase the items they need, and plenty of times.
There's money that people want to spend... money for Cryptic to make... if they'd just let us do it without all the frustration. Doing reputation once is enough.
+1 to the OP and others who have posted here.
Wake up Cryptic and make it happen. Scale back the grind or face the prospect of more players leaving this game for greener and gentler pastures.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
In a way the "reputation" system doesn't even make sense. I feel like I'm bribing my way to the top instead of letting my actions speak for themselves.
For example, if Task-Force Omega is "anti-borg", any mission that involves me countering a Borg threat should directly reward reputation. Marks... marks don't make sense except for doing the unlock projects.
Instead, this is how it feels. You go to Gamma-Orionis, and then on to the B'Tran Nebula and do some exploration missions. You kill some Borg, but get nothing. You decide to play a STF. You either get in a group that knows what they're doing and want to achieve the bonus, or you get people who don't... which ends up penalizing anyone who does know what they are doing and want the bonus. Either way, you get marks. You sigh, realizing you need to do this several hundred more times to achieve T5... And this is before even looking at the Reputation UI. You select a project, and you think... "Wait. I don't have any reputation with them? But I've been killing lots of Borg already... surely there should be something... And what's this? They want supplies? I am not a freighter captain!" You select the project and fill in the requirements, thinking that it won't be that bad... then you see it takes 20 hours to complete. You do the math. 2800 reputation per 20 hours... equates to around 36 days of forced waiting... a little less because the tier unlock projects reward some rep as well. Plus the amount of time it takes to accumulate the marks.
And then sadness settles in as you log out and look at the number of characters you have and want to get through the process too.
Honestly, I think the concept needs re-examined. And I agree with what others have said, the system is not at all alt-friendly. I have almost 20 characters. I don't have the time or the inclination to try to get all of them through the reputation. Once or twice is more than enough of a time sink for me.
I posted in another thread about the Rep grind - Personally, I Hate It!!!
It turns the game from being fun into one long grind & THIS is what kills the interest for most of the player base.
Problems come on numerous fronts:
You need to grind each tier to unlock an extra ability - if you don't, you're at a disadvantage!
You need to grind the same maps over and over again for marks - game becomes stale so you're sick of it by the time you cap out
Rep projects only last 20hrs & must be manually done - forcing players to log on just to do rep is always bad
If you create a new character, you have to go through it all again - most players suffer burnout after doing just one character!
So a few questions:
Why isn't the Rep system automated?
Why doesn't it increase when you either help or defeat certain opponents?
Why can't all the maps give "Us" the choice of what marks we want?(eg. borg map - either 100 omega or 50 of any other faction on completion)
Why are the rewards for each tier specifically aimed at either ground or space buffs?Surely it would make more sense to maybe add an extra Bridge officer slot, increase your bank space, reduce the cost of faction items by a percentage? This way, a player doesn't feel "forced" into doing something they hate just to be on par with everyone else. This Also removes a big obstacle with training additional characters <-- that's just some examples btw
The rep system is here to stay, that I fully understand, but it's driving a large portion of players away because it's so poorly thought out.
Remember, If the game is fun to play, people will always want to log in, spend their cash. If you make it so it's more of a grind & no longer fun.. well, people will just get sick and tired and move elsewhere.
LISTEN, LEARN and ADAPT before it's too late. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED PWE
Reputation is an ALTERNATE LEVELING SYSTEM. That is why every character HAS to do them on their own.
But I wish STO stops releasing reputation systems so damn often. Its like raising the level cap every 6 months. That's TOO OFTEN.
Level caps should be raised 1-2 years otherwise we'd only have 5/6 of the time spent in endgame before another level cap raise! I don't want to be endlessly leveling!! :mad:
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
The rep system needs to tie in more with the rest of STO to make it less of a grind. Have some doff assignments give marks. Have certain player races grant the equivalent of a Mark boost for one rep tree (Romulan/Reman get bonuses on earned Romulan marks, lib borg get bonuses on earned Omega marks). Let us turn in the hoards of rare/very rare boffs from Doff missions for marks (as we "assign" them to a particular region via the Doff system).
Of course, the rep system is basically STO's end game. Once you hit 50 you either grind marks/dil or PvP (or both). That's the biggest problem - there's nothing to camouflage the grind. You're pretty much done with the story missions by level cap and all that's left is the blatant PvE queue treadmill.
All the top gear in the game requires a per-character grind totaling months of casual play for tier 5 rep x3 or earning enough fleet marks to actually be able to buy decent fleet gear. It's pretty obvious that this is by design and that Cryptic won't make major changes to the system unless STO is hemorrhaging players due to the grind (which it's obviously not - yet). But if they can soften the edges of the rep grind it might make it more tolerable for more people.
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The rep system requires too much. As in too much cost. Blowing through EC and Expertise trying to do three reps at the same time sucks. I dont even bother with the 500 rep points ones as there is WAY too much cost for very little gain in those.
Then you have starbase ones with the easy to come by stuff is low (like fleet marks) but then you have over the top dil requirements and needs for doffs. and seriously who has a ton of white doffs left lying around after 6 months at endgame?
Lower the dil costs, or change it to unrefined, or remove the refinement cap or raise it. I would prefer one of the first two as people love spending money on zen for dil, and grinding dil for zen.
Then you have the T5 rep TRIBBLE that has excessive CD's for little gain.
Really it is pretty poorly thought out, and was mostly probably done so people would spend more money on zen for dil......
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Whenever I grind rep, I always have to remember that for the few minutes of filling those projects (and of course the playing to grind the ec and marks and whatnot), I am getting 1440 dilithium ore a day back.
After 30 days that toon usually has a pile of refined dilithium (assuming i dont spend it in the meantime), and that doesnt even include all the other ways.
I personally wish the Dilithium ore reward was doubled, due to the time sink factor, but hey its just more soup in the pot.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The rep grind isn't as big as the gear grind, but it's a sort of annoying preliminary on your umpteenth alt.
As shown in this thread, I don't think people mind grinding for their gear as such, even if it takes a long time - after all, that's just what MMOs are - but their argument is that they should be in a position to grind for that gear without having to go through the preliminary rep grind for the umpteenth time.
It does seem that there's money here waiting to be made for Cryptic for a Tier V rep unlock for alts of players who have already done the rep grind to V on one toon, and I can't really see any downside for the game. Players who already have several alts are more likely to be driven away by the lack of this option.
I have read everyone's responses about the reputation and I am in full agreement in certain points and disagree in others. My opinion is that the reputation keeps players like myself interested. I don't mind grinding to get what I need but I refuse to sit in front of my computer and do it for hours on end. I will get there when it is time. I have the New Romulus, Nukara, and Task Force Omega completed and have benefited from the rewards that were given from the completion of the reps. I do agree that you do burn thru alot of exp points and resources when doing the reputation stuff. My biggest problem is that the grinding of the Starbase, Embassy, and Mine. I have not seen any benefit in these at all except for some very rare consoles. So I have stopped grinding for the fleet stuff and only will concentrate on the rep stuff from now on.
Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
They could always do what WoW did with Mists of Panderia... once your first character to unlock/max out a rep does, they can buy a "rep discount token" for their account. So the second (and so on) toons doing the same rep grind can earn +20% more or something. It's a decent compromise.
They could always do what WoW did with Mists of Panderia... once your first character to unlock/max out a rep does, they can buy a "rep discount token" for their account. So the second (and so on) toons doing the same rep grind can earn +20% more or something. It's a decent compromise.
The latest tribble patch notes include just such measures. Reputation Sponsorship coming Season 8. Allow your alts to each double the rep xp (if you have maxed it on a character already).
The latest tribble patch notes include just such measures. Reputation Sponsorship coming Season 8. Allow your alts to each double the rep xp (if you have maxed it on a character already).
Not what I was hoping for, but I can accept this. 50% more rep XP works.
I think what is listed int he Tribble notes doesn't go far enough. The Rep grind needs to be faction specific account wide, not per toon. That way, completing it on one Fed means it's done for all of your Fed's, the same for it being done on one KDF means it's done for all ofyour KDF toons, and the same for Romulan.
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I think what is listed int he Tribble notes doesn't go far enough. The Rep grind needs to be faction specific account wide, not per toon. That way, completing it on one Fed means it's done for all of your Fed's, the same for it being done on one KDF means it's done for all ofyour KDF toons, and the same for Romulan.
While I see that as ideal, i don't want to throw another obstacle to people being kdf. The kdf community is already hurt enough as it is from lethargic content provision. Adding a rep gate would just be mean.
It just needs to be account bound. Oh and get rid fo the war too. I spend more time working with kdf, instead of fighting them.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
While I see that as ideal, i don't want to throw another obstacle to people being kdf. The kdf community is already hurt enough as it is from lethargic content provision. Adding a rep gate would just be mean.
It just needs to be account bound. Oh and get rid fo the war too. I spend more time working with kdf, instead of fighting them.
It's rather true most of the best PvE teams i have been in a re a mixed bag of FEd and KDF. The only reason they keep it up is PvP at this point.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Rep should be part of the mission rewards (where appropriate) from level one and at level 50 you get to choose which one(s) you want to max out. The problem of it being a monotonous grind would vanish.
Basically, it should be like the Doff system: Used to enrich gameplay. Not be the gameplay.
Rep should be part of the mission rewards (where appropriate) from level one and at level 50 you get to choose which one(s) you want to max out. The problem of it being a monotonous grind would vanish.
Basically, it should be like the Doff system: Used to enrich gameplay. Not be the gameplay.
Also, a smidge of rep progress for every enemy related to the track you defeat, please.
Edit: preferably including players flying faction ships in PvP (Romulans, Tholian ships etc).
I'd vote for account wide. Grinding multiple toons, with this system, is ridiculously boring. I'm not even at T5 yet on my new Romulan, and I doubt I'll make the attempt on my other characters. The passives aren't all that special, and for the most part the gear isn't impressive enough that I'd want to grind the rep and the purchase price per piece to get it.
Comments
And that's just 1 run for a specific rep like Omega.
Now you have to do it on the other trees... across all your characters.
Obviously there might be a cross-faction issue, but I don't think that's a big deal.
Less grinding, more money, what could go wrong?
That's actually not a bad idea at all, I'd support this!
I cant agree more with all of this ^^
I WANT to make new toons, i WANT to buy new ships for them, but the thought alone of going through the WHOLE REP again, and again, and again, stops me from doing so
Which I SUSPECT Cryptic will eventually simply lose money on. Suit it yourself, dont listn to the playerbase, who cares these days.
Read this, please Cryptic, PLEASE!
+1 to the OP and others who have posted here.
Wake up Cryptic and make it happen. Scale back the grind or face the prospect of more players leaving this game for greener and gentler pastures.
- Judge Aaron Satie
For example, if Task-Force Omega is "anti-borg", any mission that involves me countering a Borg threat should directly reward reputation. Marks... marks don't make sense except for doing the unlock projects.
Instead, this is how it feels. You go to Gamma-Orionis, and then on to the B'Tran Nebula and do some exploration missions. You kill some Borg, but get nothing. You decide to play a STF. You either get in a group that knows what they're doing and want to achieve the bonus, or you get people who don't... which ends up penalizing anyone who does know what they are doing and want the bonus. Either way, you get marks. You sigh, realizing you need to do this several hundred more times to achieve T5... And this is before even looking at the Reputation UI. You select a project, and you think... "Wait. I don't have any reputation with them? But I've been killing lots of Borg already... surely there should be something... And what's this? They want supplies? I am not a freighter captain!" You select the project and fill in the requirements, thinking that it won't be that bad... then you see it takes 20 hours to complete. You do the math. 2800 reputation per 20 hours... equates to around 36 days of forced waiting... a little less because the tier unlock projects reward some rep as well. Plus the amount of time it takes to accumulate the marks.
And then sadness settles in as you log out and look at the number of characters you have and want to get through the process too.
Honestly, I think the concept needs re-examined. And I agree with what others have said, the system is not at all alt-friendly. I have almost 20 characters. I don't have the time or the inclination to try to get all of them through the reputation. Once or twice is more than enough of a time sink for me.
It turns the game from being fun into one long grind & THIS is what kills the interest for most of the player base.
Problems come on numerous fronts:
So a few questions:
The rep system is here to stay, that I fully understand, but it's driving a large portion of players away because it's so poorly thought out.
Remember, If the game is fun to play, people will always want to log in, spend their cash. If you make it so it's more of a grind & no longer fun.. well, people will just get sick and tired and move elsewhere.
LISTEN, LEARN and ADAPT before it's too late. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED PWE
Beta player - forum knows jack as to when I started
_____________________________________________________
But I wish STO stops releasing reputation systems so damn often. Its like raising the level cap every 6 months. That's TOO OFTEN.
Level caps should be raised 1-2 years otherwise we'd only have 5/6 of the time spent in endgame before another level cap raise! I don't want to be endlessly leveling!! :mad:
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Of course, the rep system is basically STO's end game. Once you hit 50 you either grind marks/dil or PvP (or both). That's the biggest problem - there's nothing to camouflage the grind. You're pretty much done with the story missions by level cap and all that's left is the blatant PvE queue treadmill.
All the top gear in the game requires a per-character grind totaling months of casual play for tier 5 rep x3 or earning enough fleet marks to actually be able to buy decent fleet gear. It's pretty obvious that this is by design and that Cryptic won't make major changes to the system unless STO is hemorrhaging players due to the grind (which it's obviously not - yet). But if they can soften the edges of the rep grind it might make it more tolerable for more people.
Then you have starbase ones with the easy to come by stuff is low (like fleet marks) but then you have over the top dil requirements and needs for doffs. and seriously who has a ton of white doffs left lying around after 6 months at endgame?
Lower the dil costs, or change it to unrefined, or remove the refinement cap or raise it. I would prefer one of the first two as people love spending money on zen for dil, and grinding dil for zen.
Then you have the T5 rep TRIBBLE that has excessive CD's for little gain.
Really it is pretty poorly thought out, and was mostly probably done so people would spend more money on zen for dil......
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
After 30 days that toon usually has a pile of refined dilithium (assuming i dont spend it in the meantime), and that doesnt even include all the other ways.
I personally wish the Dilithium ore reward was doubled, due to the time sink factor, but hey its just more soup in the pot.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
This would quicken rep leveling for those who are behind the times, and make alt leveling easier, while still buying time in between seasons.
Failing which, stop releasing new grinds so damn often! We can have the adventure zone, but we don't always need new grinds...
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
The rep grind isn't as big as the gear grind, but it's a sort of annoying preliminary on your umpteenth alt.
As shown in this thread, I don't think people mind grinding for their gear as such, even if it takes a long time - after all, that's just what MMOs are - but their argument is that they should be in a position to grind for that gear without having to go through the preliminary rep grind for the umpteenth time.
It does seem that there's money here waiting to be made for Cryptic for a Tier V rep unlock for alts of players who have already done the rep grind to V on one toon, and I can't really see any downside for the game. Players who already have several alts are more likely to be driven away by the lack of this option.
The latest tribble patch notes include just such measures. Reputation Sponsorship coming Season 8. Allow your alts to each double the rep xp (if you have maxed it on a character already).
Not what I was hoping for, but I can accept this. 50% more rep XP works.
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While I see that as ideal, i don't want to throw another obstacle to people being kdf. The kdf community is already hurt enough as it is from lethargic content provision. Adding a rep gate would just be mean.
It just needs to be account bound. Oh and get rid fo the war too. I spend more time working with kdf, instead of fighting them.
It's rather true most of the best PvE teams i have been in a re a mixed bag of FEd and KDF. The only reason they keep it up is PvP at this point.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Basically, it should be like the Doff system: Used to enrich gameplay. Not be the gameplay.
Also, a smidge of rep progress for every enemy related to the track you defeat, please.
Edit: preferably including players flying faction ships in PvP (Romulans, Tholian ships etc).