Reputation passives, activated abilities, and equipment are all necessary for high-end gameplay. Leveling those reputations costs players nothing but time (as the only limiting factor is marks). But that time is not only gated by the number of daily runs needed to get the marks (unless you happen to be able to play specifically during the bonus mark event every day), but also by a 20 hour forced wait between projects as well.
As such, completing all three reputations to full on one character can be rewarding. However, once finished, being faced with the daunting task of doing it again on another character is a complete deterrent.
The release of the new Romulan Scimitar Dreadnaught pack made me realize this recently. I like the ship. I want the ship. I'm willing to purchase and pay 5000 zen for the ship, as well as the hundreds of thousands of dilithium needed to outfit it.... But I'm not willing to spend 4 hours each day grinding for the next 2-3 months to get the reputation needed to equip the ship.
The part I don't understand is... Cryptic should want to make money. We want Cryptic to make money as well, so the game can stay alive and active as long as possible. Cryptic makes their money off of Zen and Dilithium, neither of which is needed UNTIL AFTER the reputation system is completed (as space equipment costs a lot of dilithium, but nothing while leveling the reputation requires any).
So here I sit, as do many others.... with a Klingon... with a Romulan... with other Federation characters... with a wishlist of things to purchase using dilithium and Zen, with the only thing standing in my way of purchasing them in the form of a huge time sink.
I did it with one character. I won't do it again. And I can't help but wonder why an account-based reputation system isn't in place yet. Each player will still need to run STF's and other PvE activities to get the marks to purchase the items they need, and plenty of times.
There's money that people want to spend... money for Cryptic to make... if they'd just let us do it without all the frustration. Doing reputation once is enough.
In the grand scheme of things STO's end-game is about excessive grinding. Whether you grind the same handful of STF's 10,000 times or grind Rep missions 10,000 times it's still grinding. STO doesn't have enough varying content to make the grinding interesting - as opposed to other games which have the same mindless grinding but at least have 10 times more choices. That's really not going to change.
Ultimately, STO's going to need to be more like NWNs. It's going to need to use it's Foundry more intensely to earn people the various grinding currencies. At this point that's really the only way to get enough content into the game. I mean, look at all the KDF mission just added, done in less then 1 week. Look at all the Rom missions just added, done in a week. There's never going to be enough content that people can't do it 100 times faster then it's made. Thus they really need to expand the benefits of the Foundry.
Not that they don't need to add a ton of new end-game mission, just that no matter how many they add, they're still going to be played faster then they can be created.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
In the grand scheme of things STO's end-game is about excessive grinding. Whether you grind the same handful of STF's 10,000 times or grind Rep missions 10,000 times it's still grinding. STO doesn't have enough varying content to make the grinding interesting - as opposed to other games which have the same mindless grinding but at least have 10 times more choices. That's really not going to change.
Ultimately, STO's going to need to be more like NWNs. It's going to need to use it's Foundry more intensely to earn people the various grinding currencies. At this point that's really the only way to get enough content into the game. I mean, look at all the KDF mission just added, done in less then 1 week. Look at all the Rom missions just added, done in a week. There's never going to be enough content that people can't do it 100 times faster then it's made. Thus they really need to expand the benefits of the Foundry.
Not that they don't need to add a ton of new end-game mission, just that no matter how many they add, they're still going to be played faster then they can be created.
This just highlights the dangers of releasing a game too early. People shout and scream, and stomp their feet trying to tell this to developers, but these teams are forced to work under deadlines imposed by people who only interested in a return on investment. I hope those empty suits see how the "hurry launch it now" mentality is extremely detrimental to the ability of a game to advance and grow.
Cryptic will always be playing catch up, unless and until they have a team and resources to rapidly expand development. I'm willing to bet that given the game's age and mediocre success (thanks in large part to the state of the game at launch), there's little motivation to do this.
People say "grinding for 10000 toons is NOT fun" and as a response the dev say "we are proud to indroduce a new rep and hope there will be more in the future".
Scotty we have 10,000 tons of BS for transport :rolleyes:
Reputation passives, activated abilities, and equipment are all necessary for high-end gameplay. Leveling those reputations costs players nothing but time (as the only limiting factor is marks). But that time is not only gated by the number of daily runs needed to get the marks (unless you happen to be able to play specifically during the bonus mark event every day), but also by a 20 hour forced wait between projects as well.
As such, completing all three reputations to full on one character can be rewarding. However, once finished, being faced with the daunting task of doing it again on another character is a complete deterrent.
The release of the new Romulan Scimitar Dreadnaught pack made me realize this recently. I like the ship. I want the ship. I'm willing to purchase and pay 5000 zen for the ship, as well as the hundreds of thousands of dilithium needed to outfit it.... But I'm not willing to spend 4 hours each day grinding for the next 2-3 months to get the reputation needed to equip the ship.
The part I don't understand is... Cryptic should want to make money. We want Cryptic to make money as well, so the game can stay alive and active as long as possible. Cryptic makes their money off of Zen and Dilithium, neither of which is needed UNTIL AFTER the reputation system is completed (as space equipment costs a lot of dilithium, but nothing while leveling the reputation requires any).
So here I sit, as do many others.... with a Klingon... with a Romulan... with other Federation characters... with a wishlist of things to purchase using dilithium and Zen, with the only thing standing in my way of purchasing them in the form of a huge time sink.
I did it with one character. I won't do it again. And I can't help but wonder why an account-based reputation system isn't in place yet. Each player will still need to run STF's and other PvE activities to get the marks to purchase the items they need, and plenty of times.
There's money that people want to spend... money for Cryptic to make... if they'd just let us do it without all the frustration. Doing reputation once is enough.
^Totally agree with this Lag guy.
Cryptic you will lose money because of it because it is exactly how i feel as well.
I did it with one character. I won't do it again. And I can't help but wonder why an account-based reputation system isn't in place yet. Each player will still need to run STF's and other PvE activities to get the marks to purchase the items they need, and plenty of times.
Gear bought from the fleet and dilithium stores should be Account Bound.
They also need to make the currency account wide so it's much easier to use. One would think they could easily do this so that switching characters constantly to transfer things wouldn't be such a drag on the login servers resources.
Hands down no question, they need to do this in their next update really, they do.
Well i maxed 2 toons and working on 3rd t5 in few days. I dont see big problem for people with 3-4 alts to grind it, because you only have to do few pve queues to get marks you need for progression and few days hard grind for t5 equipment. But this could be hard for modern casual players who haven't used to grind in other mmo's.
On other note this could be a Zen unlcok for each char, you have to pay 5k zen to get copy of all reputation done on other character. Would be good until next reputation faction comes out, good money for cryptic and good shortcut for players.
Reputation passives, activated abilities, and equipment are all necessary for high-end gameplay. Leveling those reputations costs players nothing but time (as the only limiting factor is marks). But that time is not only gated by the number of daily runs needed to get the marks (unless you happen to be able to play specifically during the bonus mark event every day), but also by a 20 hour forced wait between projects as well.
As such, completing all three reputations to full on one character can be rewarding. However, once finished, being faced with the daunting task of doing it again on another character is a complete deterrent.
The release of the new Romulan Scimitar Dreadnaught pack made me realize this recently. I like the ship. I want the ship. I'm willing to purchase and pay 5000 zen for the ship, as well as the hundreds of thousands of dilithium needed to outfit it.... But I'm not willing to spend 4 hours each day grinding for the next 2-3 months to get the reputation needed to equip the ship.
The part I don't understand is... Cryptic should want to make money. We want Cryptic to make money as well, so the game can stay alive and active as long as possible. Cryptic makes their money off of Zen and Dilithium, neither of which is needed UNTIL AFTER the reputation system is completed (as space equipment costs a lot of dilithium, but nothing while leveling the reputation requires any).
So here I sit, as do many others.... with a Klingon... with a Romulan... with other Federation characters... with a wishlist of things to purchase using dilithium and Zen, with the only thing standing in my way of purchasing them in the form of a huge time sink.
I did it with one character. I won't do it again. And I can't help but wonder why an account-based reputation system isn't in place yet. Each player will still need to run STF's and other PvE activities to get the marks to purchase the items they need, and plenty of times.
There's money that people want to spend... money for Cryptic to make... if they'd just let us do it without all the frustration. Doing reputation once is enough.
never ever agreed with people who rant on this forum until now. ^ that is probably the closest we will come to someone "nailing it".
Im not so much bothered about grinding as i am about the time restriction, as you progress through the reputation the exp needed gets larger including resources and other things (which are a pain in the TRIBBLE as well but yeah) but Honestly I think they should reduce the time between projects the further you go up through the reputation because i literally found myself the other day sitting at my desktop checking my reputation projects and when they finished I didnt even bother to start more of them up...simply because it was WAY to time consuming. I realise they dont want us to rush through it and finish what they've added but if anything the time limit is destroying replay value... at least for me and a few others...
there are also a lot of people who want to play end game content but have a life outside the game so they dont have time to grind which is also a problem..as the accessibility to end game equipment is... well problematic time wise.
but yeah all this will probably fall on deaf ears as always.
The waiting to advance in tiers I really hate when I am doing the reputation on multiple characters. They need to reduce the wait. 12 hours would be much better then 20 hours for stuff.
I have posted about this on multiple occasions... help me help you make/take (my) money!
Just as a few other posters... with the release of LOR I had wild aspirations to level a number of Rom Toons.
I mean I'd need a fed tac..... and and a kdf tac...! damnit I'll need a sci for that Tvaro refit torp boat I want, FED and ROM! right ok ok ok lets gets busy.....
So i level my fed tac.... and thats it.... the stark reality of having to grind through Rep again on all these new toons I wanted quickly put me off the idea...
I have Fleet Dhelan on my Tac... I quite like it... I'd like a scimitar but I like to run specific ships on specific toons for quick changes, and since I'm not levelling another toon and grinding rep.... im not buying a Scimitar as the toon I have will do fine in a Dhelan...however if i had another tac... I'd most definitely pick one up!
Not to mention if I was levelling another batch of toons I'd go gold again for a month... you know for the respecs and slots and all that nice stuff Id get while levelling my new toons....
But I'm not gunna level new toons because of rep.... so I aint going gold for a month....
But I tell you what I would do.... if I levelled new toons and had the option to unlock all my rep in one go for 500zen per toon... Id pay it, no problem or hesitation...
So Cryptic break it down... rep is costing you the price of a T'varo, Scimitar Pack (gotta have all the consoles right?) and a months gold (plus months gold further down the line when I'm levelling another batch of toons). That's just on my roms... I'd like another fed tac in an a2b regent and a sci KDF briel.
Thats probably 10k-12k Zen + a month's gold right there you're LOSING because of rep.
So Cryptic I ask again.... help me help you take 500 zen (+the rest) off me per toon for tier 5 rep unlock.
thanks!
PS Make it an even 1000 Zen per toon and give me a lv 50 toon with 500k Expertise with full tier rep unlocked (hate levelling toons.....again!) Guys that are in the game longer (an pay for stuff) been there done that with it all)
PPS Point to note though I do agree that value and some hard should be attached to the best endgame gear....and that a paid rep unlock would have to be only purchaseable after having completed full rep on at least 1 toon previously.
I'm just doing it one character at a time, Vox. I'm also thinking of only taking some reps to T2 or so on some characters. It's pretty mind-numbing.
I don't expect Cryptic to make any of the rep rewards account-wide. The dilithium mine holding gives me some hopes of a rep equivalent... a T5 unlock that reduces costs for other characters, or at least other reps.
We may be able to convince them to let us buy more consumables in bulk and stack them higher than 20. We can push for more opportunities to grind marks, more variety to the missions and higher rewards.
Seems a lot of people feel the same way once OI get to Tier V Nukara I don't want to have to do it again on my KDF of Romulan. Also don't want to grind roman and omega marks for my romulan either which makes me not want to buy a t5 roman ship as I haven't reached lvl 50 and i;m considering deleting that toon as can;t be bothered with the grind if you amke the reputation account bound not only will I buy a T5 T'varo ship but I will also by the Scimitar class ships as well and more.
But if you don't want our money then this is the correct way to go about it. As people are getting fed up with the grind especially since another one is on the horizon
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am most certainly not enjoying regrinding Reps on my Romulan, an account based system would be great.
And don't even get me started on the DOff grind...
I deleted my Romulan avatar for both reason. Even though "Legacy of Romulus" is an impressive upgrade, the reputation system and duty officer grind is too daunting. Once you complete a few holdings, the yearning to do it again fades very rapidly. Another problem is the duty officer issues. If you try to buy them from the exchange, the price to obtain purple duty officers is insane. As a result of Cryptic raising the duty officer recruitment costs, the prices on the exchange have made STO extremely slow to play.
Reputation passives, activated abilities, and equipment are all necessary for high-end gameplay. Leveling those reputations costs players nothing but time (as the only limiting factor is marks). But that time is not only gated by the number of daily runs needed to get the marks (unless you happen to be able to play specifically during the bonus mark event every day), but also by a 20 hour forced wait between projects as well.
Yeah, I feel your pain. Once my second avatar completed Omega-T3, the thought of waiting through timers put my progress on indefinite hold.
I don't know what it is anymore, but why do people continiously defend this game?
This is how the conversations usually go:
1. Someone complains on the forums that something needs to be changed.
2. Cryptic either doesn't listen, or doesn't change it.
3. People whine that people are whining on troll on them. Some of them being veteran players.
4. Other people come in with the same complaints.
5. Other people defend Cryptic saying "it's the way it's mean to be."
6. Cryptic comes out with a "fix" that gives them more profit. Rather then listening to the players.
You see I used to be a veteran EverQuest player. By content and difficulty alone it puts this game to shame.
Not only that the customer service with EverQuest was SUPERB. Even more so that they had a Guide program that listened to people's issues, and petitions/tickets were answered in a very timely fashion. (I WAS a Guide, I know how it was.) The stuff that Cryptic does to the player base would of never flew over well. The game would of gone under in a matter of months. (EverQuest) that is.
However it seems Cryptic at this point is trying to grab every last penny they can from the player base. I have since canceled my gold, and will NOT spend one more cent on this game. I have spent probably over $250.00 worth of ZEN on this game from buying stuff and + subs + converting Zen to DIL. Then what do I get in return? Bugs. A bugged character for the lat 3 months, horrible customer service. A company that does not care about it's customers or fan base.
You see I don't have time to grind 10 different ALTs to get the amount of DIL i need. That is NEITHER realistic nor should have to be done to get the amount required just for one item. This doesn't make it a "challenging" game. It just forces people to logon to get Cryptic = More profit.
This company has the worst and utterly the most inconceivable idea of what they call customer service.
I need to know why the heck people are defending Cryptic on every single aspect of this a game, when a lot of players can agree something is either broken, or needs to be fixed or improved upon. I don't know if you guys are a glutton for punishment, or just have a lot of money so it doesn't bother you, but for us poorer people, yet it get sickening.
I never seen a player base so scared, and just defend a horrible company. Why because the game is named "Star Trek." Put any other name to this game and NO ONE would play it. The people that keep this game alive, are either rich, or just so far gone with Star Trek, they will say and do ANYTHING for Cryptic to defend them.
People complain because it helps things improve, tells a company there is something wrong with their product.
All the tactics that Cryptic does, the 8K dil limit, (and TRIBBLE you over for that day if you don't refine, why?) no benefit of becoming a gold member, every new ship, new item costing money? Fleet Modules costing a buttload, the ridiculous grind and pricing for a Starbase. This s all okay with people though? Bugs in the game that have been in the game since launch/CB/OB. Bugged zones, bugged missions, bugged equipment?
This is okay by everyone? Everyone just keeps paying money and defending this company. I don't understand this, what do you hope to accomplish, get brownie points for Cryptic so they give you something free? They will drop you like a hat if they wanted to. You get NOTHING for bending over backwards for them.
Where is the Tribble reward they promised everyone?
There have been SEVERAL posts that either have gone to the wayside, or been delted or moved, so they can't be seen on this forum, about the Reputation grind.
They aren't going to do anything about it, they know the more grind you have to do the more money you spend. IF you are stupid enough to do that, it's your own fault.
There is a difference with difficulty and then grinding. Making something a long grind that takes you months, or almost a year to get doesn't make it a challenging game. It makes it a money sink. I guess people are too ignorant to see this (and being stupid and ignorant are two different things.)
I am playing less and less due to this fact, it's sad that the game has become this.
This game will get so bad eventually that there will be no way out of paying for something, maybe a new item, or a new ship. What's going to happen when the raise the level limit "Buy Zen for more SKill Points!" People think that would be ludicrous but Cryptic has lured you slowly into this trap, that when it comes people like "okay ill bend over for you."
How people accept this game as it is, and continually pay a company with horrible customer service, is still beyond me.
Considering what you have to invest in order to max out gear in other MMOs, the grind in STO isn't too bad. What it boils down to is that STO players seem to be spoiled when compared to those of other games.
Instant levelling, quick access to best-in-slot gear, no ranked pvp reward system, reputation gated solely by real-time and not by skill/ingame-time/organization and endgame content en par with basic low-level dungeons in other games, plus the fact that endgame gear doesn't become obsolete.
People in here are complaining about the fact that it takes a bit of time to equip their n-th alt with top-notch, best in slot endgame gear, which already requires a low amount of effort to start with. An average ingame-time of 15-20 minutes/day will get your character to T5 reputation with all 3 factions in about a month.
Other games make you grind the same (raid) dungeons for 3-4 hours 2-3 times a week to get second-rate gear which in turn you need to replace every few weeks to stay competative. It's the same grind in every game out there, it's part of the basic mmo-concept. People who don't grasp that might be better off playing Skyrim & co., where - when it becomes too time consuming or difficult - you can just advance via console commmands...
Considering what you have to invest in order to max out gear in other MMOs, the grind in STO isn't too bad. What it boils down to is that STO players seem to be spoiled when compared to those of other games.
Instant levelling, quick access to best-in-slot gear, no ranked pvp reward system, reputation gated solely by real-time and not by skill/ingame-time/organization and endgame content en par with basic low-level dungeons in other games, plus the fact that endgame gear doesn't become obsolete.
People in here are complaining about the fact that it takes a bit of time to equip their n-th alt with top-notch, best in slot endgame gear, which already requires a low amount of effort to start with. An average ingame-time of 15-20 minutes/day will get your character to T5 reputation with all 3 factions in about a month.
Other games make you grind the same (raid) dungeons for 3-4 hours 2-3 times a week to get second-rate gear which in turn you need to replace every few weeks to stay competative. It's the same grind in every game out there, it's part of the basic mmo-concept. People who don't grasp that might be better off playing Skyrim & co., where - when it becomes too time consuming or difficult - you can just advance via console commmands...
Considering they way Cryptic is going with these reputation grinds people will eventually get sick and go and play something else maybe Skyrim. I for one have taken a break from the game and i'm glad for it as it was starting to become more like a job and some people have left indefinitely we are not asking to stop the grind entirely we are just asking for it to become account unlocked or remove the time gate something that cryptic has the power to do.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have only three characters, my main fed tac, my rom tac and my new engineer. I have almost everything done for my fed tac character, just need to hit T5 Nukara. My rom char is at lvl 50 and at T1 in all rep.
I have basically stopped playing any of my alts regularly. I looked at the scimitar pack and WAS going to buy it, then i realized i would need to go through that whole rep system again....and closed the cstore, once i realized just how long i would need to grind on that rom character, and remembering the brain numbing grind i had to go through before...i stopped regularly playing as my rom character. I now only log into my romulan once every day to do doff missions, then go back to my main char.
My main char doesn't need any more ships. Cryptic has lost out on me purchasing 5000 Zen, they have also lost out on any zen purchases my fed engineer alt would have made.
I know the arguement of "this is an MMO... that's what MMO's do" is one that is pushed out by a lot of "gamers".
I remember the days BEFORE MMO games came out, when PC Single/Multiplay games was FUN... and INTERESTING. Heck, i worked on some of those fun and interesting old style PC games for Star Trek when i worked for Interplay and later Activision.
This is my first MMO.
It will also be my last MMO.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
It's the same grind in every game out there, it's part of the basic mmo-concept. People who don't grasp that might be better off playing Skyrim & co., where - when it becomes too time consuming or difficult - you can just advance via console commmands...
I'll pay 5k zen for console commands!! jokes jokes...
but seriously... I get your arguement on the grind, but STO is different... it is a more casual game, the fact of ease of pve and endgame harder missions is testament to this... having a full tier 5 rep unlock does not take from this... guys will still have to grind the marks, dil etc for whatever gear they want (30 stfs for a full space set?) I dont know how many rom missions for Rom weaps/gear etc but I imagine its a decent number.
Taking out the time gate only serves to let people (who have already done the rep grind) grind their gear straight away... not to have to grind to be allowed to grind....if you get me....
My idea of a 500 zen tier 5 rep unlock fits in line with other stuff in game... you can grind rep for free and wait.... or pay up and have it now....personally I'd happily pay up.
Point to note though I do agree that value and some hard should be attached to the best endgame gear....and that a paid rep unlock would have to be only purchaseable after having completed full rep on at least 1 toon previously.
I did it with one character. I won't do it again. And I can't help but wonder why an account-based reputation system isn't in place yet. Each player will still need to run STF's and other PvE activities to get the marks to purchase the items they need, and plenty of times.
Probably because (after Thursday's patch); all T5 Rep projects will give out a fairly big reward of the appropriate Marks and Dilithium. And since some power levelers can get a new character to 50 in hours - that would be a large source of essentially free dilithium; which can be converted to Zen via the exchange, etc - cutting into their bottom line in the long run.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I do agree that after toon 1&2 it is holding me back from grinding through it... However, I don't think it should be an account wide unlock... I do kinda understand the philosophy that this is a CHARACTER reputation...
I think that for each toon that completes the Omega/Nukara/Rom Rep, there is a 10% discount in time and cost for rep system projects the other toons on the account.
You still have to complete the rep system, but the more you do the less it will cost.
Probably because (after Thursday's patch); all T5 Rep projects will give out a fairly big reward of the appropriate Marks and Dilithium. And since some power levelers can get a new character to 50 in hours - that would be a large source of essentially free dilithium; which can be converted to Zen via the exchange, etc - cutting into their bottom line in the long run.
A for Zen unlock would eliminate this.....and improve the bottom line....
also creates an interesting dynamic.... pay 500 zen for the unlock now(no big reward).... or wait grind it out and get receive all the dil and marks reward... (is it equiv to 500zen? i can't remember eitherways nice setup)
Wait... are you seriously asking to be able to pay real money to skip the non-existent end-game and thus finally turn this game into a totally, rather than partially pay2win game?
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the reason you want this is so that you can get each toon into PvP but if not... um... rep is pretty much the end game (lack of) content in this game. After T5 there is nothing, nothing, for your toon to do and you want to pay to skip that?
I'm not even going to get into how silly buying a level 50 toon, and thus paying to not play the game, sounds to me...
But sure. If you want to pay 1000 zen or whatever to not play the game, go ahead. In fact, let's just remove all the levelling and and rep systems, let's just stick to only one tier of gear and get rid of all those tiresome story missions and all the rep grind content used for getting all that stuff and just make everything available for zen.
Why not ask for the levelling and reputation processes and the game in general to be made more interesting? Doesn't that make a little more sense than basically asking to pay2notplay a free2play game?
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Reputation passives, activated abilities, and equipment are all necessary for high-end gameplay.
Much of what you say is good, but this is completely false.
First, let's look at what you do to get the marks: High-End game play. So in order to get the gear and passives you perform the exact same tasks you will do with the gear and passives but before you own them.
The only place they are remotely close to "necessary" is PvP.
You can complete every other end-game activity with white mark 11 gear and no passives flying vanilla tier 5 (not 5.5 fleet/lockbox/c-store) ships.
If you want the gear, and love PvP that's great and yes the rep is a grind for people who are in a rush and want to jump back into their favorite task right away. But adding hyperbole to an otherwise strong argument just gives the Devs a reason to treat your argument as false.
This is a game, that a significant percentage of players would have more fun should be a powerful argument all by itself, since fun is the whole point of the game's existence.
Wait... are you seriously asking to be able to pay real money to skip the non-existent end-game and thus finally turn this game into a totally, rather than partially pay2win game?
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the reason you want this is so that you can get each toon into PvP but if not... um... rep is pretty much the end game (lack of) content in this game. After T5 there is nothing, nothing, for your toon to do and you want to pay to skip that?
I'm not even going to get into how silly buying a level 50 toon, and thus paying to not play the game, sounds to me...
But sure. If you want to pay 1000 zen or whatever to not play the game, go ahead. In fact, let's just remove all the levelling and and rep systems, let's just stick to only one tier of gear and get rid of all those tiresome story missions and all the rep grind content used for getting all that stuff and just make everything available for zen.
Why not ask for the levelling and reputation processes and the game in general to be made more interesting? Doesn't that make a little more sense than basically asking to pay2notplay a free2play game?
ok, so the lv50 toon thing might be wishful thinking... but in its defence... we've already done the content to death...so what difference does it make if was to buy a lv50 and save myself the drudge of going back through all the story missions.
as i mentioned these kind of unlocks may only be for people that have already completed all the content or more back to the OP's topic of rep, guys that have already completed the rep grind.
New players coming in would still have to do these things before being able to purchase the unlocks for alts etc. you see? but it would eliminate the rep system grind for the those of us that hate it... the purpose of this thread.... if rep is the endgame in STO then god help us all... cause its all end and no game (no fun either).
End game in STO is STF's replaying episodes at your leisure, or various other multitude of missions in the Q's (rom, nukara etc) or the occasional dose of pvp for sure. you're arguement of pay2notplay is mute.... otherwise the rep grind is a grind to not play.... course we play stuff with our fancy sets and weapons!! I just dont like having to level a toon through rep for a month to have the pleasure to grind my gear (which i dont mind doing grinding the gear makes sense) when ive already done it before multiple times...
Pay2notplay is the farthest thing from my mind when i make the case for a zen rep unlock or level lv 50. Its pay 2 play what i want when i want NOW. Grinding through the rep system again is not playing the game, grinding my gear direct IS, playing missions with my gear... IS, pvping IS. I could grind through it for a month(grumbling all the way) for free..or Id like to be able to choose to pay to unlock it NOW since ive already done it before...
Cryptic used the Rep system, as well as the starbases, to add seemingly necessary tasks and items that cost a ton of dilithium. This discourages players from converting all their dilithium to Zen and encourages many to use Zen to buy dilithium. Cryptic obviously isn't going to remove any dilithium sinks.
However, they could make the Rep system account-wide and leave the dilithium costs intact for each character. So, if your second toon hit lvl 50 and wanted a Cutting Beam, the project would be available for them immediately, but it would still cost them 500 omega marks and 15,000 dilithium. Cryptic loses nothing, only gains a happy altaholic who will end up spending even more dilithium to dress out his various toons now that the huge grind is out of the way.
Personally, I don't care if I even finish T5 on my main toon, and I won't touch it only any of the others. If I could, I'd spend the dilithium (potential ZEN) to load out all 6 of my toons in T5 rep gear in a heartbeat. But if I have to schedule a daily appointment with STO for another month to do so... no. No, I'll just keep my pink diamonds, thank you.
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Ultimately, STO's going to need to be more like NWNs. It's going to need to use it's Foundry more intensely to earn people the various grinding currencies. At this point that's really the only way to get enough content into the game. I mean, look at all the KDF mission just added, done in less then 1 week. Look at all the Rom missions just added, done in a week. There's never going to be enough content that people can't do it 100 times faster then it's made. Thus they really need to expand the benefits of the Foundry.
Not that they don't need to add a ton of new end-game mission, just that no matter how many they add, they're still going to be played faster then they can be created.
This just highlights the dangers of releasing a game too early. People shout and scream, and stomp their feet trying to tell this to developers, but these teams are forced to work under deadlines imposed by people who only interested in a return on investment. I hope those empty suits see how the "hurry launch it now" mentality is extremely detrimental to the ability of a game to advance and grow.
Cryptic will always be playing catch up, unless and until they have a team and resources to rapidly expand development. I'm willing to bet that given the game's age and mediocre success (thanks in large part to the state of the game at launch), there's little motivation to do this.
Scotty we have 10,000 tons of BS for transport :rolleyes:
^Totally agree with this Lag guy.
Cryptic you will lose money because of it because it is exactly how i feel as well.
And don't even get me started on the DOff grind...
I did it with one character. I won't do it again. And I can't help but wonder why an account-based reputation system isn't in place yet. Each player will still need to run STF's and other PvE activities to get the marks to purchase the items they need, and plenty of times.
Gear bought from the fleet and dilithium stores should be Account Bound.
They also need to make the currency account wide so it's much easier to use. One would think they could easily do this so that switching characters constantly to transfer things wouldn't be such a drag on the login servers resources.
Hands down no question, they need to do this in their next update really, they do.
cause sometimes its party time!
On other note this could be a Zen unlcok for each char, you have to pay 5k zen to get copy of all reputation done on other character. Would be good until next reputation faction comes out, good money for cryptic and good shortcut for players.
never ever agreed with people who rant on this forum until now. ^ that is probably the closest we will come to someone "nailing it".
Im not so much bothered about grinding as i am about the time restriction, as you progress through the reputation the exp needed gets larger including resources and other things (which are a pain in the TRIBBLE as well but yeah) but Honestly I think they should reduce the time between projects the further you go up through the reputation because i literally found myself the other day sitting at my desktop checking my reputation projects and when they finished I didnt even bother to start more of them up...simply because it was WAY to time consuming. I realise they dont want us to rush through it and finish what they've added but if anything the time limit is destroying replay value... at least for me and a few others...
there are also a lot of people who want to play end game content but have a life outside the game so they dont have time to grind which is also a problem..as the accessibility to end game equipment is... well problematic time wise.
but yeah all this will probably fall on deaf ears as always.
I have posted about this on multiple occasions... help me help you make/take (my) money!
Just as a few other posters... with the release of LOR I had wild aspirations to level a number of Rom Toons.
I mean I'd need a fed tac..... and and a kdf tac...! damnit I'll need a sci for that Tvaro refit torp boat I want, FED and ROM! right ok ok ok lets gets busy.....
So i level my fed tac.... and thats it.... the stark reality of having to grind through Rep again on all these new toons I wanted quickly put me off the idea...
I have Fleet Dhelan on my Tac... I quite like it... I'd like a scimitar but I like to run specific ships on specific toons for quick changes, and since I'm not levelling another toon and grinding rep.... im not buying a Scimitar as the toon I have will do fine in a Dhelan...however if i had another tac... I'd most definitely pick one up!
Not to mention if I was levelling another batch of toons I'd go gold again for a month... you know for the respecs and slots and all that nice stuff Id get while levelling my new toons....
But I'm not gunna level new toons because of rep.... so I aint going gold for a month....
But I tell you what I would do.... if I levelled new toons and had the option to unlock all my rep in one go for 500zen per toon... Id pay it, no problem or hesitation...
So Cryptic break it down... rep is costing you the price of a T'varo, Scimitar Pack (gotta have all the consoles right?) and a months gold (plus months gold further down the line when I'm levelling another batch of toons). That's just on my roms... I'd like another fed tac in an a2b regent and a sci KDF briel.
Thats probably 10k-12k Zen + a month's gold right there you're LOSING because of rep.
So Cryptic I ask again.... help me help you take 500 zen (+the rest) off me per toon for tier 5 rep unlock.
thanks!
PS Make it an even 1000 Zen per toon and give me a lv 50 toon with 500k Expertise with full tier rep unlocked (hate levelling toons.....again!) Guys that are in the game longer (an pay for stuff) been there done that with it all)
Freddy Demands IT!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pm4fQRl72k
PPS Point to note though I do agree that value and some hard should be attached to the best endgame gear....and that a paid rep unlock would have to be only purchaseable after having completed full rep on at least 1 toon previously.
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I don't expect Cryptic to make any of the rep rewards account-wide. The dilithium mine holding gives me some hopes of a rep equivalent... a T5 unlock that reduces costs for other characters, or at least other reps.
We may be able to convince them to let us buy more consumables in bulk and stack them higher than 20. We can push for more opportunities to grind marks, more variety to the missions and higher rewards.
But if you don't want our money then this is the correct way to go about it. As people are getting fed up with the grind especially since another one is on the horizon
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Both issues are a game stopper.
Yeah, I feel your pain. Once my second avatar completed Omega-T3, the thought of waiting through timers put my progress on indefinite hold.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=783661&page=6
The MOD saw fit to move it so no one would notice.
HEre is also an interview stating that they are making ANOTHER reputation:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/08/captains-log-interview-with-star-trek-onlines-al-rivera-part/
Here is my response from the old thread:
I don't know what it is anymore, but why do people continiously defend this game?
This is how the conversations usually go:
1. Someone complains on the forums that something needs to be changed.
2. Cryptic either doesn't listen, or doesn't change it.
3. People whine that people are whining on troll on them. Some of them being veteran players.
4. Other people come in with the same complaints.
5. Other people defend Cryptic saying "it's the way it's mean to be."
6. Cryptic comes out with a "fix" that gives them more profit. Rather then listening to the players.
You see I used to be a veteran EverQuest player. By content and difficulty alone it puts this game to shame.
Not only that the customer service with EverQuest was SUPERB. Even more so that they had a Guide program that listened to people's issues, and petitions/tickets were answered in a very timely fashion. (I WAS a Guide, I know how it was.) The stuff that Cryptic does to the player base would of never flew over well. The game would of gone under in a matter of months. (EverQuest) that is.
However it seems Cryptic at this point is trying to grab every last penny they can from the player base. I have since canceled my gold, and will NOT spend one more cent on this game. I have spent probably over $250.00 worth of ZEN on this game from buying stuff and + subs + converting Zen to DIL. Then what do I get in return? Bugs. A bugged character for the lat 3 months, horrible customer service. A company that does not care about it's customers or fan base.
You see I don't have time to grind 10 different ALTs to get the amount of DIL i need. That is NEITHER realistic nor should have to be done to get the amount required just for one item. This doesn't make it a "challenging" game. It just forces people to logon to get Cryptic = More profit.
This company has the worst and utterly the most inconceivable idea of what they call customer service.
I need to know why the heck people are defending Cryptic on every single aspect of this a game, when a lot of players can agree something is either broken, or needs to be fixed or improved upon. I don't know if you guys are a glutton for punishment, or just have a lot of money so it doesn't bother you, but for us poorer people, yet it get sickening.
I never seen a player base so scared, and just defend a horrible company. Why because the game is named "Star Trek." Put any other name to this game and NO ONE would play it. The people that keep this game alive, are either rich, or just so far gone with Star Trek, they will say and do ANYTHING for Cryptic to defend them.
People complain because it helps things improve, tells a company there is something wrong with their product.
All the tactics that Cryptic does, the 8K dil limit, (and TRIBBLE you over for that day if you don't refine, why?) no benefit of becoming a gold member, every new ship, new item costing money? Fleet Modules costing a buttload, the ridiculous grind and pricing for a Starbase. This s all okay with people though? Bugs in the game that have been in the game since launch/CB/OB. Bugged zones, bugged missions, bugged equipment?
This is okay by everyone? Everyone just keeps paying money and defending this company. I don't understand this, what do you hope to accomplish, get brownie points for Cryptic so they give you something free? They will drop you like a hat if they wanted to. You get NOTHING for bending over backwards for them.
Where is the Tribble reward they promised everyone?
There have been SEVERAL posts that either have gone to the wayside, or been delted or moved, so they can't be seen on this forum, about the Reputation grind.
They aren't going to do anything about it, they know the more grind you have to do the more money you spend. IF you are stupid enough to do that, it's your own fault.
There is a difference with difficulty and then grinding. Making something a long grind that takes you months, or almost a year to get doesn't make it a challenging game. It makes it a money sink. I guess people are too ignorant to see this (and being stupid and ignorant are two different things.)
I am playing less and less due to this fact, it's sad that the game has become this.
This game will get so bad eventually that there will be no way out of paying for something, maybe a new item, or a new ship. What's going to happen when the raise the level limit "Buy Zen for more SKill Points!" People think that would be ludicrous but Cryptic has lured you slowly into this trap, that when it comes people like "okay ill bend over for you."
How people accept this game as it is, and continually pay a company with horrible customer service, is still beyond me.
Instant levelling, quick access to best-in-slot gear, no ranked pvp reward system, reputation gated solely by real-time and not by skill/ingame-time/organization and endgame content en par with basic low-level dungeons in other games, plus the fact that endgame gear doesn't become obsolete.
People in here are complaining about the fact that it takes a bit of time to equip their n-th alt with top-notch, best in slot endgame gear, which already requires a low amount of effort to start with. An average ingame-time of 15-20 minutes/day will get your character to T5 reputation with all 3 factions in about a month.
Other games make you grind the same (raid) dungeons for 3-4 hours 2-3 times a week to get second-rate gear which in turn you need to replace every few weeks to stay competative. It's the same grind in every game out there, it's part of the basic mmo-concept. People who don't grasp that might be better off playing Skyrim & co., where - when it becomes too time consuming or difficult - you can just advance via console commmands...
Considering they way Cryptic is going with these reputation grinds people will eventually get sick and go and play something else maybe Skyrim. I for one have taken a break from the game and i'm glad for it as it was starting to become more like a job and some people have left indefinitely we are not asking to stop the grind entirely we are just asking for it to become account unlocked or remove the time gate something that cryptic has the power to do.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have only three characters, my main fed tac, my rom tac and my new engineer. I have almost everything done for my fed tac character, just need to hit T5 Nukara. My rom char is at lvl 50 and at T1 in all rep.
I have basically stopped playing any of my alts regularly. I looked at the scimitar pack and WAS going to buy it, then i realized i would need to go through that whole rep system again....and closed the cstore, once i realized just how long i would need to grind on that rom character, and remembering the brain numbing grind i had to go through before...i stopped regularly playing as my rom character. I now only log into my romulan once every day to do doff missions, then go back to my main char.
My main char doesn't need any more ships. Cryptic has lost out on me purchasing 5000 Zen, they have also lost out on any zen purchases my fed engineer alt would have made.
I know the arguement of "this is an MMO... that's what MMO's do" is one that is pushed out by a lot of "gamers".
I remember the days BEFORE MMO games came out, when PC Single/Multiplay games was FUN... and INTERESTING. Heck, i worked on some of those fun and interesting old style PC games for Star Trek when i worked for Interplay and later Activision.
This is my first MMO.
It will also be my last MMO.
"Star Trek: Online" and MMOS reminds me of 'retro junk commercials' from the 80s.
YouTube Link: 80's Masters of the Universe Hotline Commercial
"Each message costs $2 for the first minute. 45 cents for each additional minute."
I'll pay 5k zen for console commands!! jokes jokes...
but seriously... I get your arguement on the grind, but STO is different... it is a more casual game, the fact of ease of pve and endgame harder missions is testament to this... having a full tier 5 rep unlock does not take from this... guys will still have to grind the marks, dil etc for whatever gear they want (30 stfs for a full space set?) I dont know how many rom missions for Rom weaps/gear etc but I imagine its a decent number.
Taking out the time gate only serves to let people (who have already done the rep grind) grind their gear straight away... not to have to grind to be allowed to grind....if you get me....
My idea of a 500 zen tier 5 rep unlock fits in line with other stuff in game... you can grind rep for free and wait.... or pay up and have it now....personally I'd happily pay up.
Point to note though I do agree that value and some hard should be attached to the best endgame gear....and that a paid rep unlock would have to be only purchaseable after having completed full rep on at least 1 toon previously.
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Probably because (after Thursday's patch); all T5 Rep projects will give out a fairly big reward of the appropriate Marks and Dilithium. And since some power levelers can get a new character to 50 in hours - that would be a large source of essentially free dilithium; which can be converted to Zen via the exchange, etc - cutting into their bottom line in the long run.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I do agree that after toon 1&2 it is holding me back from grinding through it... However, I don't think it should be an account wide unlock... I do kinda understand the philosophy that this is a CHARACTER reputation...
I think that for each toon that completes the Omega/Nukara/Rom Rep, there is a 10% discount in time and cost for rep system projects the other toons on the account.
You still have to complete the rep system, but the more you do the less it will cost.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
A for Zen unlock would eliminate this.....and improve the bottom line....
also creates an interesting dynamic.... pay 500 zen for the unlock now(no big reward).... or wait grind it out and get receive all the dil and marks reward... (is it equiv to 500zen? i can't remember eitherways nice setup)
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I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the reason you want this is so that you can get each toon into PvP but if not... um... rep is pretty much the end game (lack of) content in this game. After T5 there is nothing, nothing, for your toon to do and you want to pay to skip that?
I'm not even going to get into how silly buying a level 50 toon, and thus paying to not play the game, sounds to me...
But sure. If you want to pay 1000 zen or whatever to not play the game, go ahead. In fact, let's just remove all the levelling and and rep systems, let's just stick to only one tier of gear and get rid of all those tiresome story missions and all the rep grind content used for getting all that stuff and just make everything available for zen.
Why not ask for the levelling and reputation processes and the game in general to be made more interesting? Doesn't that make a little more sense than basically asking to pay2notplay a free2play game?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
First, let's look at what you do to get the marks: High-End game play. So in order to get the gear and passives you perform the exact same tasks you will do with the gear and passives but before you own them.
The only place they are remotely close to "necessary" is PvP.
You can complete every other end-game activity with white mark 11 gear and no passives flying vanilla tier 5 (not 5.5 fleet/lockbox/c-store) ships.
If you want the gear, and love PvP that's great and yes the rep is a grind for people who are in a rush and want to jump back into their favorite task right away. But adding hyperbole to an otherwise strong argument just gives the Devs a reason to treat your argument as false.
This is a game, that a significant percentage of players would have more fun should be a powerful argument all by itself, since fun is the whole point of the game's existence.
ok, so the lv50 toon thing might be wishful thinking... but in its defence... we've already done the content to death...so what difference does it make if was to buy a lv50 and save myself the drudge of going back through all the story missions.
as i mentioned these kind of unlocks may only be for people that have already completed all the content or more back to the OP's topic of rep, guys that have already completed the rep grind.
New players coming in would still have to do these things before being able to purchase the unlocks for alts etc. you see? but it would eliminate the rep system grind for the those of us that hate it... the purpose of this thread.... if rep is the endgame in STO then god help us all... cause its all end and no game (no fun either).
End game in STO is STF's replaying episodes at your leisure, or various other multitude of missions in the Q's (rom, nukara etc) or the occasional dose of pvp for sure. you're arguement of pay2notplay is mute.... otherwise the rep grind is a grind to not play.... course we play stuff with our fancy sets and weapons!! I just dont like having to level a toon through rep for a month to have the pleasure to grind my gear (which i dont mind doing grinding the gear makes sense) when ive already done it before multiple times...
Pay2notplay is the farthest thing from my mind when i make the case for a zen rep unlock or level lv 50. Its pay 2 play what i want when i want NOW. Grinding through the rep system again is not playing the game, grinding my gear direct IS, playing missions with my gear... IS, pvping IS. I could grind through it for a month(grumbling all the way) for free..or Id like to be able to choose to pay to unlock it NOW since ive already done it before...
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However, they could make the Rep system account-wide and leave the dilithium costs intact for each character. So, if your second toon hit lvl 50 and wanted a Cutting Beam, the project would be available for them immediately, but it would still cost them 500 omega marks and 15,000 dilithium. Cryptic loses nothing, only gains a happy altaholic who will end up spending even more dilithium to dress out his various toons now that the huge grind is out of the way.
Personally, I don't care if I even finish T5 on my main toon, and I won't touch it only any of the others. If I could, I'd spend the dilithium (potential ZEN) to load out all 6 of my toons in T5 rep gear in a heartbeat. But if I have to schedule a daily appointment with STO for another month to do so... no. No, I'll just keep my pink diamonds, thank you.