Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content." Al Rivera hates Klingons Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert All cloaks should be canon.
Sadly, Cryptic didn't take the time to flesh out the Republic government. I think we should have had at least one mission that involved them directly to show that the Republic is more than just D'tan's pet project and that he's actually having to ride herd on multiple different factions. It might have been fun to have one where we actually get involved in some policy debate (something non-gameplay related, perhaps a point of conflict about the allocation of supplies between Republic worlds) and been allowed to use the PC's in game prestige to influence the outcome (or to sit it out entirely).
Agreed the republic is most definitely in need of more context as I've argued several times before.
With the other factions there was little need for additional information because we had tons of additional information already in the form of episodes , books and movies. Then we get the Republic which is a whole different story we have no idea how the Republic is run , how many leaders it has , what's it's general motives besides survival and so on.
which leaves a kind of hollow shell sorta vibe with no real substance.
I think the Republic is made up of multiple factions who are likely vying for power and influence within the new Senate. These factions would be:
Ok at this point Cryptic needs to put you on payroll :P While I again disagree with some of the ideas this is damned good material and much more appropriate imo than what we have
Ok at this point Cryptic needs to put you on payroll :P While I again disagree with some of the ideas this is damned good material and much more appropriate imo than what we have
If they offered me a job doing story writing and editing for STO, I would take it in a heart beat. That would be a dream job.
All this said... I think I will start poking at the foundery. I make no promises though.
What other factions in the Senate would you think there would be anyway, or how would they break down differently? I make no claim to being all-knowing or having the best ideas, and one of the most important things for the creative process is exchanging ideas and improving on them.
Also, one thing I think folks might miss for many hard-line Romulans: many of them wouldn't be very loyal to Sela. She's a half-breed. It's as simple as that. She's not a REAL Romulan. By the Void, I think that many hardline Romulans would actually rebel against her, she came to power in a coup using outside mercenary forces and has an impure racial background. Proper Romulans, in my mind, wouldn't see her as a legitimate Empress, or her government as legitimate.
In my very first entry for the Literary Challenges, in the "Lone Drone" challenge, I had a Starfleet ship recover an incompletely-converted Romulan who'd been captured by the Borg. He had quite a rant on this topic, after the Admiral asked him about Sela...
well just off the cuff I dont see remans being completely unified and militant. Consider when you were in Obisek's base... 1/2 the ones you talked to just wanted to get away from the warring. Similarly I think the military would be split between the idealists backing the Republic and old Imperial hardliners looking to restore the empire and using D'Tan's movement as the tool. Between Sela and the Tal Shiar, and inevitable small "warlord" factions the Republic is the least distasteful for restoring the empire.
Basically Id make a lot of little shifts here and there with your ideas, it pretty much just boils down to two slightly different visions of what Romulans should be/are
Ive tinkered a little with the Foundry and theres a couple sticking points I can forsee in trying to tell that story... Chief among them, I think there is no way to force someone into a lv1 ship and/or temporarily reduce their fighting level to 1
I wouldn't say the Remans are so much united in their motives but more indoctrinated with being obedient followers. When you think about it they're probably not use to voicing their concerns. We have to remember that for most their history Remans have been a slave race and it doesn't exactly pay off to question your overlord.
I suspect they may be a very compliant species since it wasn't even the Remans that led the original revolt but a human. One might say it was Shinzon who was really inspiring them to revolt and they were just drawn along by his strong personality because they were use to following strong willed people. Similar to a wolf pack where everyone follows the alpha male.
Granted there are some strong personalities like Obelsk but I would classify him as one of the alphas males. I think the rest generally like or more accurately is accustom to being given commands.
I get the impression Reman society is rather violent since the one Reman commander shot the other for failure of duty. Whether this is because they're just naturally violent , taught it , or part of some environmental constraints I can't say. Though it would give some credibility to Peregry's suggestion that Romulan behavior which Remans are derived from is somewhat linked to competitions for resources. If anywhere was going to provide that kind of harsh environment it would most defiantly be some barren empty mines.
Problem I had with that theory was the STO Romulans didn't seem to revert back to their violence selves when placed under similar harsh conditions after the destruction of Romulus.
Though I suppose as a species they could have breed that trait out by then where the Remans have never had the luxury since they've always lived under harsh conditions.
*sigh* I've had the song in my head ever since shortly after you posted this. Lucky for you, it's a good song. Otherwise, I would have to hunt you down and toss you in a holding cell for "interrogation."
On topic:
With reference to peregry's proposed/perceived factions, not only is the interplay complex, the overlap cannot be ignored.
I seem to recall some statement that Obisek is now in charge of the military of the New Romulan Republic (someone else remember this? was it in the cut scene on entry into Mol'Rihan, maybe?), so the likelihood that the Reman faction and the Military faction are closely connected is strong based on that as well.
With regard to the Military and Colonial factions, peregry's proposed improvements to the storyline notwithstanding, the current storyline (which I find more than sufficiently motivating as far as joining the Republic and fighting Sela, Tal'Shiar, Elachi, Iconians, and RSE till my dying breath) starts the Romulan player character off as a Colonial, and closes with the same character as part of the Military. I would think that the Colonial faction, at least those directly affected by Tal'Shiar/Elachi attacks, would be very sympathetic to the Military of the Republic, and vice-versa (since the Military is now filled with survivors of the Virinat invasion ...).
The one unifying principle behind all of these factions would necessarily be the fact that the Romulan Star Empire has attempted to victimize them.
In response to the earlier comments of peregry about the centrality of the Empire in connection with the Tal'Diann, yes, of course. I agreed with that business about the centralization of the Empire the first time you posted it (I also strongly dislike centralization, in part because of the resulting vulnerability to which you have alluded, but that's another matter for another time and another place). It also helps to explain why the Tal'Diann needed a new head (although other explanations are possible), which D'Tan and Obisek found -- in me.
I don't remember Obisek being stated to be head of the military, that doesn't mean he isn't, but I don't recall it personally.
I agree there would be more granularity in the factions, I was just writing down a broad-strokes idea of how they generally fall into place. The Republic is still to new to have any solid political parties (wit hthe exception of the Reunificationists), so I would expect lines to be fluid and coalitions to be wildly different depending on the specific subject.
Vonhellsing, not entirely a bad suggestion on the Remans. Though from my studies of human history, freed slave populations tend to follow their liberators especially in the first few generations, though they might shift over time. So I would expect the Remans to mostly be loyal to thos liberators, both Obisek in particular, and the Republic in general. They might be the most emphatic supporters of the Republic in some ways.
(As an aside, I generally follow the "Remans are an offshoot of the Romulans" school of thought, as that makes the most sense to me. It also happens to be the theory put forward in the Vulcan's Soul novels, which STO definately pulls from.)
Is it bad that I hope one of the Cryptic folks is watching this thread and stealing our ideas for future updates?
Though from my studies of human history, freed slave populations tend to follow their liberators especially in the first few generations, though they might shift over time. So I would expect the Remans to mostly be loyal to thos liberators, both Obisek in particular, and the Republic in general. They might be the most emphatic supporters of the Republic in some ways.
I'm going to assume your studies focused mostly on north American slavery. Not to say that isn't relevant but not all cultures react the same way to offers of freedom. Despite what several posed/faked pictures may imply not every culture is ready to run out into the streets cheering and toppling statues. Generally I think most cultures are reserved in such situation because they're always fearful of repercussions.
I get the impression a lot of the Reman that follow Obisek are mostly confused and lack direction so they're following the closest thing they have to a safety net.
For instance one Reman blamed Shinzon for causing trouble and making their situation worse. While another said he had nothing to live for after he lost his wife. It wasn't like they were all motivated to start some sort of coordinated rebellion. It was more like they had no where else to go so they had little choice but to follow Obisek or die. Not to say they dislike him but I wouldn't say they're all exactly following him to begin some glorious Reman revolution. They're afraid and confused and this is as close to safety as they've had in a long time.
Is it bad that I hope one of the Cryptic folks is watching this thread and stealing our ideas for future updates?
Yes it is you are a horrible person and you sicken me!:P Though seriously isn't that the hope of everyone who posts ideas on this forum? I think we all want to be heard and improvements made to a game we generally enjoy.
Is it bad that I hope one of the Cryptic folks is watching this thread and stealing our ideas for future updates?
Same here, I really hope a moderator or someone else with forum powers would flag this thread for devs to read. Frankly if I were religious Id be praying they'd pay attention to this thread
I get the impression a lot of the Reman that follow Obisek are mostly confused and lack direction so they're following the closest thing they have to a safety net.
For instance one Reman blamed Shinzon for causing trouble and making their situation worse. While another said he had nothing to live for after he lost his wife. It wasn't like they were all motivated to start some sort of coordinated rebellion. It was more like they had no where else to go so they had little choice but to follow Obisek or die. Not to say they dislike him but I wouldn't say they're all exactly following him to begin some glorious Reman revolution. They're afraid and confused and this is as close to safety as they've had in a long time.
I see this as a bit closer to the mark. Most would happily just crawl into a cave and be left alone. Atm Remans seem to have the worst combination of 'abused dog', depression, ptsd,
and isolationism
(since the Military is now filled with survivors of the Virinat invasion ...).
Although it would involve more coding, it would be nice if the player characters were from various colonies (including, but not limited to, Virinat), determined at random when the character is created.
With the vastness of Romulan space (currently the largest territory controlled by any faction, even if the Romulans are divided into Imperialists/Tal'Shiar and Republicans), and the fact that we know that many of the M-class planets in that territory are inhabited by Romulans and/or Remans, it's certainly more logical to have that variation. Furthermore, just how many Romulans managed to escape from Virinat and become members of the resistance? The fact that we are all supposed to be from Virinat stretches the credibility (sure, they could be survivors from the various transport ships and freighters which I rescued, but that's not the way it's done, of course), and diminishes the supposedly near-unique experience of the player character ("You survived the Virinat invasion, too? Where in the name of the Mother were you when I was fighting the Elachi and Tal'Shiar???" *jumps on and begins to pummel the other*)
This would add greater opportunity for more diversity among those of us who enjoy the storylines, developing our character biographies, and RPing.
Although it would involve more coding, it would be nice if the player characters were from various colonies (including, but not limited to, Virinat), determined at random when the character is created.
With the vastness of Romulan space (currently the largest territory controlled by any faction, even if the Romulans are divided into Imperialists/Tal'Shiar and Republicans), and the fact that we know that many of the M-class planets in that territory are inhabited by Romulans and/or Remans, it's certainly more logical to have that variation. Furthermore, just how many Romulans managed to escape from Virinat and become members of the resistance? The fact that we are all supposed to be from Virinat stretches the credibility (sure, they could be survivors from the various transport ships and freighters which I rescued, but that's not the way it's done, of course), and diminishes the supposedly near-unique experience of the player character ("You survived the Virinat invasion, too? Where in the name of the Mother were you when I was fighting the Elachi and Tal'Shiar???" *jumps on and begins to pummel the other*)
This would add greater opportunity for more diversity among those of us who enjoy the storylines, developing our character biographies, and RPing.
Here's the thing: the storyline for the Legacy of Romulus is clearly designed with a single person in mind. Even ignoring Virinat, there's to many "only one person can claim to do these things" that the PC does: finding Mol'Rihan, killing Hakeev, etc.
From a storyline perspective, all our character's CAN'T be the one in the campaign story. Roleplay wise, there's no reason to tie your character to the storyline at all, you can be anything you want to be within reason. Former Imperial Navy, Tal Shiar infiltrator, Colonial who joined the Republic, renegade Vulcan who snuck out of the Fed and is passing themselves off as a Romulan... So long as you can justify it, your character can be anything they want, just put it in your bio.
That said, I wouldn't expect Cryptic to support multiple background stories, most games don't, not even free-roming single-player games which otherwise give you complete freedom.
Although it would involve more coding, it would be nice if the player characters were from various colonies (including, but not limited to, Virinat), determined at random when the character is created.
Random? No, however 3-5 available starting colonies with very similar stories would be doable. Hell change the building skins and the bug to something else and you could use the exact same plot, itd just be cheesy, but doable.
Random? No, however 3-5 available starting colonies with very similar stories would be doable. Hell change the building skins and the bug to something else and you could use the exact same plot, itd just be cheesy, but doable.
How do you propose selecting between the 3-5? Unless you're suggesting player choice, the selection would be done by the game engine, which would almost necessarily mean the result would be random. Sure, it could be coded to go down the list each time someone made a Romulan/Reman, but most game developers have an obsession with probability and the random ...
Im playing through again and I disagree, its designed for 2 people, Tovan AND his Sidekick.
:rolleyes: I still don't understand why some of you have such an aversion to Tovan Khev. So he talks a lot. So he voices his opinion on several occasions. So he offers you advice occasionally. Yes, at times he's WRONG (if you happen to disagree with his opinion and/or advice), but wouldn't an actual bridge officer, in particular, a First Officer, be inclined to chime in betimes? The story does involve situations which the player might not be expected to automatically have all the background about. He fills in those details. Some of you seem to want to fly around the galaxy in utter silence with no guidance or feedback, using your boffs as mindless automatons. An effective leader does not silence his or her officers, but values their expertise, specialized knowledge, and experience, and welcomes advice, feedback, and information. Otherwise, one might as well join the Tal'Shiar, in which superior officers welcome only sycophants into their command, and in which anyone is likely to be shot at any time due to the psychotic whims of their leadership.
How do you propose selecting between the 3-5? Unless you're suggesting player choice, the selection would be done by the game engine, which would almost necessarily mean the result would be random. Sure, it could be coded to go down the list each time someone made a Romulan/Reman, but most game developers have an obsession with probability and the random ...
I did indeed mean for it to be player selected. Right now Im playin a game called Dragon's Prophet on the side... you can choose from 3 start locations, each has a slightly different twist to the start story and quests.. Mechanically they are all 3 the same tho.
:rolleyes: I still don't understand why some of you have such an aversion to Tovan Khev. So he talks a lot. So he voices his opinion on several occasions. So he offers you advice occasionally. Yes, at times he's WRONG (if you happen to disagree with his opinion and/or advice), but wouldn't an actual bridge officer, in particular, a First Officer, be inclined to chime in betimes? The story does involve situations which the player might not be expected to automatically have all the background about. He fills in those details. Some of you seem to want to fly around the galaxy in utter silence with no guidance or feedback, using your boffs as mindless automatons. An effective leader does not silence his or her officers, but values their expertise, specialized knowledge, and experience, and welcomes advice, feedback, and information. Otherwise, one might as well join the Tal'Shiar, in which superior officers welcome only sycophants into their command, and in which anyone is likely to be shot at any time due to the psychotic whims of their leadership.
I listed my issues with Tovan in the '***** about tovan' thread so Ill just quote myself.
Replaying the plot atm and was payin more attention to tovan after reading the complaints here.. Im only like lv16 atm and yeah
1)there are times where he is so far up your TRIBBLE his character model is literally inside yours
2)there are times he does things where as the commanding officer you would so slap his TRIBBLE down like a bad dog. Isolated incidents like blowin up on Charva after the transport mission I could see but he does **** like that too much for a commissioned officer, and you dont even get a 'SHUT UP TOVAN!' button, just 'continue'
Minor quips about him really compared to some of the butthurt about him
Although it would involve more coding, it would be nice if the player characters were from various colonies (including, but not limited to, Virinat), determined at random when the character is created.
With the vastness of Romulan space (currently the largest territory controlled by any faction, even if the Romulans are divided into Imperialists/Tal'Shiar and Republicans), and the fact that we know that many of the M-class planets in that territory are inhabited by Romulans and/or Remans, it's certainly more logical to have that variation. Furthermore, just how many Romulans managed to escape from Virinat and become members of the resistance? The fact that we are all supposed to be from Virinat stretches the credibility (sure, they could be survivors from the various transport ships and freighters which I rescued, but that's not the way it's done, of course), and diminishes the supposedly near-unique experience of the player character ("You survived the Virinat invasion, too? Where in the name of the Mother were you when I was fighting the Elachi and Tal'Shiar???" *jumps on and begins to pummel the other*)
This would add greater opportunity for more diversity among those of us who enjoy the storylines, developing our character biographies, and RPing.
I thought that was how it was going to be when I spoke to the lore keeper, sadly it was not. But yes I have to agree if the story was like that it would have made it even more richer Experience. I created my character to be part of the Tal'shair who found Evidence that the people she work for where Responsible for her Parents death. So she fake her death and came to Virinat to forget the Past, but Eventually her past Caught up with her. I told the lore keeper I was there before the Maiori and his crew came to Virinat colony in 2409.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
Remember that Tovan Khev isn't an experienced military officer who knows when to shut up - he's a mechanic who just happened to be handy when you needed someone to run the torpedoes during the escape from Virinat. And he's very worried about his sister.
And the bit about how a lot of the things could only have been done by you? The same is true in the other factions, as well. How many people went through the Guardian of Forever to rescue Lt. Paris? How many Klingon groups have raided Utopia Planitia? Does everyone go to Gre'thor as a young man? How many times has the Undine infiltrator at P'jem been discovered?
Each mission line assumes that you are The Hero. If you make another you, he/she starts off at the same time as the first one; you're an ensign and the senior surviving officer of your ship at Vega, or the third officer of a B'rel-class frigate that's just taken Franklin Drake in a prisoner transfer, or a Romulan (not necessarily a colonist) on Virinat.
(Nniol tr'Keiniadh used to be the science officer of an Imperial ship, until he found odd encrypted transmissions while then-Captain Hakeev was aboard. Then everyone who learned about those transmissions died, except Nniol due to a hefty dose of plot armor. Nniol finally abandoned his commission and fled into the galaxy, where he worked various odd jobs and tried to drink his memories away. D'vek, or whatever his name is, found him at Drozana, unemployed and drinking the last of his money in the form of a mug of Klingon bloodwine. He came to Virinat about a year before everything went to heck.)
(Nniol tr'Keiniadh used to be the science officer of an Imperial ship, until he found odd encrypted transmissions while then-Captain Hakeev was aboard. Then everyone who learned about those transmissions died, except Nniol due to a hefty dose of plot armor. Nniol finally abandoned his commission and fled into the galaxy, where he worked various odd jobs and tried to drink his memories away. D'vek, or whatever his name is, found him at Drozana, unemployed and drinking the last of his money in the form of a mug of Klingon bloodwine. He came to Virinat about a year before everything went to heck.)
Your character sound very interesting.
Like I said it would have been more richer Experience if only the questions the lore keeper asked our character was Tied to the story as your background (Origins)
(1) where you part of the originally Colony.
(2) did you arrival here before the mairor crew.
(3) where you part of the mairor crew.
(4) or did you just arrival on the colony.
This then effect how the story is Shape through the mission that you do, which intend let you meet people from your Past and so on.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
Personally, as a Romulan who was using the place to stash his old War Eagle (You heard me. And it's a family heirloom not an 'outmoded piece of refuse'!!) V'Kyr was quite annoyed to find out some prattling Republics had led corrupted elements of the tal shiar and some alien race to his 'dock' and set up freaking shop... Then they expect him to 'save' them while some obviously mentally challenged mechanic somehow manages to leak his mind into his ships computer to the point that not only does he constantly bother me with drivel over the com, but projects a holo version of himself on my bridge and even manages to infect my other vessels... Honestly, if V'Kyr can ever manage to delete that ghost in the machine, he'll be so happy...
I usually find it best to ignore developers ideas of 'my' story and only accept or integrate certain elements of game 'fact' into mine since developer 'my' stories (especially in mmos) tend to...uh... be disagreeable with me...and very much cloned over... almost everyone...
As to where I was during that whole invasion defense... I don't know because that infection (aka Tovan/Toven whatever...) managed to knock out the nav systems for about 3 days... At least V'Kyr has proper listing on most of his ships... I.R.W.
Personally, as a Romulan who was using the place to stash his old War Eagle (You heard me. And it's a family heirloom not an 'outmoded piece of refuse'!!) V'Kyr was quite annoyed to find out some prattling Republics had led corrupted elements of the tal shiar and some alien race to his 'dock' and set up freaking shop... Then they expect him to 'save' them while some obviously mentally challenged mechanic somehow manages to leak his mind into his ships computer to the point that not only does he constantly bother me with drivel over the com, but projects a holo version of himself on my bridge and even manages to infect my other vessels... Honestly, if V'Kyr can ever manage to delete that ghost in the machine, he'll be so happy...
I usually find it best to ignore developers ideas of 'my' story and only accept or integrate certain elements of game 'fact' into mine since developer 'my' stories (especially in mmos) tend to...uh... be disagreeable with me...and very much cloned over... almost everyone...
As to where I was during that whole invasion defense... I don't know because that infection (aka Tovan/Toven whatever...) managed to knock out the nav systems for about 3 days... At least V'Kyr has proper listing on most of his ships... I.R.W.
And I'm not just saying this, he hits all the major points concerning Constantine.
1. He embraces a new philosophy/religion that is different from the old Empire. One that is more "peaceful" and "pacifistic". In Constantine's case, this was Christianity. In D'tan's case this is Reunificationism,
2. He is creating a new capitol since the old one is no longer tenable. Constantine created Constantinople (now Istanbul). D'tan: Mol'Rihan (New Romulus).
3. He has a mystic sign that leads him to these decisions. Constantine had his vision of the cross with the message "In Hoc Signo Vinces" (In this sign you will conquer). D'tan has the Sword of the Raptor's Star.
The parallels with the fall of Rome and the creation of what we call Byzantine continue.
* The Emperors are using foriegn mercenaries to seize power and crown themselves Emperor. This was not unheard of in Roman history (don't have time or the energy to look up specific examples), and was done by Sela using the Hiirogen.
There's more than that, given the Romulans as being obviously inspired by Rome anyway, but the direct parrelels to the formation of the Byzantine Empire and D'tan as Constantine are... pretty explicit... to the point where I cannot believe I missed it until now.
@peregry; if what you say is true than you do Realise what Mol'Rihan will become right. Just like the way Constantinople or should I say Istanbul is,City for all. I don't want Mol'Rihan should become completely Neutral state for all faction in the game. That would really suck. Yes you can say it is neutral, but I am hoping once the other faction have help we will kick them out of the place, since KDF players can't go to ESD and Vice versa to FED player. I hoping we to will be on Equal Footing with the other two.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
@peregry; if what you say is true than you do Realise what Mol'Rihan will become right. Just like the way Constantinople or should I say Istanbul is,City for all. I don't want Mol'Rihan should become completely Neutral state for all faction in the game. That would really suck. Yes you can say it is neutral, but I am hoping once the other faction have help we will kick them out of the place, since KDF players can't go to ESD and Vice versa to FED player. I hoping we to will be on Equal Footing with the other two.
You're confusing Istanbul with Constantanople in some regards.
Constantanople was a new Rome and was the seat of the most powerful European kingdom for quite a long time. Istanbul is, in some ways, a shadow of that, but I'm not gonna get into that.
However, from a gameplay perspective Cryptic has made it clear they're not going to make Romulans into a standing third faction. It would also not make sense to remove all that game content from folks (a reputation faction and the largest outdoor adventure zone in the game). So New Romulus will be open for all through all of STO. That said, remember how long it took Constantinople to fall: a thousand years. The Byzantine Empire actually lasted longer than the Roman Empire (of course, you could say that they were both the same thing, but anyway). So if we follow the Byzantine Parallels for the Republic, we don't have to worry about falling anytime soon, TRIBBLE, we're heading into a new golden age in some respects.
being allowed to side with Tal Shiar or the Empress
After learning you can't in the first moments of the Rom starting zone, I logged out and promptly deleted my character. I had 0 desire to be a space fairing Bajoran with no ties to the Tal Shiar or Empress Sela.
And I'm not just saying this, he hits all the major points concerning Constantine.
1. He embraces a new philosophy/religion that is different from the old Empire. One that is more "peaceful" and "pacifistic". In Constantine's case, this was Christianity. In D'tan's case this is Reunificationism,
2. He is creating a new capitol since the old one is no longer tenable. Constantine created Constantinople (now Istanbul). D'tan: Mol'Rihan (New Romulus).
3. He has a mystic sign that leads him to these decisions. Constantine had his vision of the cross with the message "In Hoc Signo Vinces" (In this sign you will conquer). D'tan has the Sword of the Raptor's Star.
The parallels with the fall of Rome and the creation of what we call Byzantine continue.
* The Emperors are using foriegn mercenaries to seize power and crown themselves Emperor. This was not unheard of in Roman history (don't have time or the energy to look up specific examples), and was done by Sela using the Hiirogen.
There's more than that, given the Romulans as being obviously inspired by Rome anyway, but the direct parrelels to the formation of the Byzantine Empire and D'tan as Constantine are... pretty explicit... to the point where I cannot believe I missed it until now.
I think you might be stretching it a bit there but its an interesting theory. One I hope you are very wrong about. Much like I hope you are wrong about the Romulans never standing on their own as a faction. I agree Cryptic is unlikely to do it, but it doesnt mean I dont hope they surprise us.
Even if Romulans do become a third faction in game there isnt really a need to remove Mol'Rihan as a ground zone for all, that aspect is something unique to the Romulan faction and the beginning of an open, cosmopolitan area. Mol'Rihan will also need support for years if not decades of "in game" time even with replicators aiding construction. The easiest path here is watching as the staging area and the other daily location get more "built up" progressively, adding more instanced mission maps off the main one. The Tal Shiar need Mol'Rihan as much as the Republic does. The fact that it so closely resembles Romulus(as stated in the story missions) makes it a psychological treasure when seeking legitimacy via PR campaigns
After learning you can't in the first moments of the Rom starting zone, I logged out and promptly deleted my character. I had 0 desire to be a space fairing Bajoran with no ties to the Tal Shiar or Empress Sela.
Then you have no idea what you're talking about, and can be safely ignored. Thank you for making that so clear.
You're confusing Istanbul with Constantanople in some regards.
Constantanople was a new Rome and was the seat of the most powerful European kingdom for quite a long time. Istanbul is, in some ways, a shadow of that, but I'm not gonna get into that.
However, from a gameplay perspective Cryptic has made it clear they're not going to make Romulans into a standing third faction. It would also not make sense to remove all that game content from folks (a reputation faction and the largest outdoor adventure zone in the game). So New Romulus will be open for all through all of STO. That said, remember how long it took Constantinople to fall: a thousand years. The Byzantine Empire actually lasted longer than the Roman Empire (of course, you could say that they were both the same thing, but anyway). So if we follow the Byzantine Parallels for the Republic, we don't have to worry about falling anytime soon, TRIBBLE, we're heading into a new golden age in some respects.
Yes I am a ware! Istanbul which is derives from the Greek phrase eis tin polin, meaning "into the City is a shadow of what Constantinople was. Your theory is some what Accurate in a sense that, Constantinople was even build on already-existing city which was settled in the early days of Greek colonial expansion, this can be applied to the Dewan who was once the Inhabitants of the planet. But consider the Byzantine not only did they have such powerful army the also had a powerful navy too. I Doubt that the republic can get there anytime soon since you were talking about the Reunification. But I was merely trying state that in other for New Romulus to work like the way Constantinople was we need to make the Republic into a full Fledge faction instead the mini faction that we have. Because if we keep the mini faction stuff than it can not be like Constantinople as you stated.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
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Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Agreed the republic is most definitely in need of more context as I've argued several times before.
With the other factions there was little need for additional information because we had tons of additional information already in the form of episodes , books and movies. Then we get the Republic which is a whole different story we have no idea how the Republic is run , how many leaders it has , what's it's general motives besides survival and so on.
which leaves a kind of hollow shell sorta vibe with no real substance.
Now see I dont agree with all that but it would have felt more appropriate and been 10x better
seconded, tho this really should have been what cryptic did or at least a lot closer to what they should have done
Ok at this point Cryptic needs to put you on payroll :P While I again disagree with some of the ideas this is damned good material and much more appropriate imo than what we have
If they offered me a job doing story writing and editing for STO, I would take it in a heart beat. That would be a dream job.
All this said... I think I will start poking at the foundery. I make no promises though.
What other factions in the Senate would you think there would be anyway, or how would they break down differently? I make no claim to being all-knowing or having the best ideas, and one of the most important things for the creative process is exchanging ideas and improving on them.
Basically Id make a lot of little shifts here and there with your ideas, it pretty much just boils down to two slightly different visions of what Romulans should be/are
Ive tinkered a little with the Foundry and theres a couple sticking points I can forsee in trying to tell that story... Chief among them, I think there is no way to force someone into a lv1 ship and/or temporarily reduce their fighting level to 1
I suspect they may be a very compliant species since it wasn't even the Remans that led the original revolt but a human. One might say it was Shinzon who was really inspiring them to revolt and they were just drawn along by his strong personality because they were use to following strong willed people. Similar to a wolf pack where everyone follows the alpha male.
Granted there are some strong personalities like Obelsk but I would classify him as one of the alphas males. I think the rest generally like or more accurately is accustom to being given commands.
I get the impression Reman society is rather violent since the one Reman commander shot the other for failure of duty. Whether this is because they're just naturally violent , taught it , or part of some environmental constraints I can't say. Though it would give some credibility to Peregry's suggestion that Romulan behavior which Remans are derived from is somewhat linked to competitions for resources. If anywhere was going to provide that kind of harsh environment it would most defiantly be some barren empty mines.
Problem I had with that theory was the STO Romulans didn't seem to revert back to their violence selves when placed under similar harsh conditions after the destruction of Romulus.
Though I suppose as a species they could have breed that trait out by then where the Remans have never had the luxury since they've always lived under harsh conditions.
*sigh* I've had the song in my head ever since shortly after you posted this. Lucky for you, it's a good song. Otherwise, I would have to hunt you down and toss you in a holding cell for "interrogation."
On topic:
With reference to peregry's proposed/perceived factions, not only is the interplay complex, the overlap cannot be ignored.
I seem to recall some statement that Obisek is now in charge of the military of the New Romulan Republic (someone else remember this? was it in the cut scene on entry into Mol'Rihan, maybe?), so the likelihood that the Reman faction and the Military faction are closely connected is strong based on that as well.
With regard to the Military and Colonial factions, peregry's proposed improvements to the storyline notwithstanding, the current storyline (which I find more than sufficiently motivating as far as joining the Republic and fighting Sela, Tal'Shiar, Elachi, Iconians, and RSE till my dying breath) starts the Romulan player character off as a Colonial, and closes with the same character as part of the Military. I would think that the Colonial faction, at least those directly affected by Tal'Shiar/Elachi attacks, would be very sympathetic to the Military of the Republic, and vice-versa (since the Military is now filled with survivors of the Virinat invasion ...).
The one unifying principle behind all of these factions would necessarily be the fact that the Romulan Star Empire has attempted to victimize them.
In response to the earlier comments of peregry about the centrality of the Empire in connection with the Tal'Diann, yes, of course. I agreed with that business about the centralization of the Empire the first time you posted it (I also strongly dislike centralization, in part because of the resulting vulnerability to which you have alluded, but that's another matter for another time and another place). It also helps to explain why the Tal'Diann needed a new head (although other explanations are possible), which D'Tan and Obisek found -- in me.
~
Gessatra ir'Virinat t'Prell,
Galae'Enriov s'Tal'Diann
I agree there would be more granularity in the factions, I was just writing down a broad-strokes idea of how they generally fall into place. The Republic is still to new to have any solid political parties (wit hthe exception of the Reunificationists), so I would expect lines to be fluid and coalitions to be wildly different depending on the specific subject.
Vonhellsing, not entirely a bad suggestion on the Remans. Though from my studies of human history, freed slave populations tend to follow their liberators especially in the first few generations, though they might shift over time. So I would expect the Remans to mostly be loyal to thos liberators, both Obisek in particular, and the Republic in general. They might be the most emphatic supporters of the Republic in some ways.
(As an aside, I generally follow the "Remans are an offshoot of the Romulans" school of thought, as that makes the most sense to me. It also happens to be the theory put forward in the Vulcan's Soul novels, which STO definately pulls from.)
Is it bad that I hope one of the Cryptic folks is watching this thread and stealing our ideas for future updates?
Oh good I would hate to have an entirely bad suggestion.:P
I'm going to assume your studies focused mostly on north American slavery. Not to say that isn't relevant but not all cultures react the same way to offers of freedom. Despite what several posed/faked pictures may imply not every culture is ready to run out into the streets cheering and toppling statues. Generally I think most cultures are reserved in such situation because they're always fearful of repercussions.
I get the impression a lot of the Reman that follow Obisek are mostly confused and lack direction so they're following the closest thing they have to a safety net.
For instance one Reman blamed Shinzon for causing trouble and making their situation worse. While another said he had nothing to live for after he lost his wife. It wasn't like they were all motivated to start some sort of coordinated rebellion. It was more like they had no where else to go so they had little choice but to follow Obisek or die. Not to say they dislike him but I wouldn't say they're all exactly following him to begin some glorious Reman revolution. They're afraid and confused and this is as close to safety as they've had in a long time.
Yes it is you are a horrible person and you sicken me!:P Though seriously isn't that the hope of everyone who posts ideas on this forum? I think we all want to be heard and improvements made to a game we generally enjoy.
Same here, I really hope a moderator or someone else with forum powers would flag this thread for devs to read. Frankly if I were religious Id be praying they'd pay attention to this thread
I see this as a bit closer to the mark. Most would happily just crawl into a cave and be left alone. Atm Remans seem to have the worst combination of 'abused dog', depression, ptsd,
and isolationism
Although it would involve more coding, it would be nice if the player characters were from various colonies (including, but not limited to, Virinat), determined at random when the character is created.
With the vastness of Romulan space (currently the largest territory controlled by any faction, even if the Romulans are divided into Imperialists/Tal'Shiar and Republicans), and the fact that we know that many of the M-class planets in that territory are inhabited by Romulans and/or Remans, it's certainly more logical to have that variation. Furthermore, just how many Romulans managed to escape from Virinat and become members of the resistance? The fact that we are all supposed to be from Virinat stretches the credibility (sure, they could be survivors from the various transport ships and freighters which I rescued, but that's not the way it's done, of course), and diminishes the supposedly near-unique experience of the player character ("You survived the Virinat invasion, too? Where in the name of the Mother were you when I was fighting the Elachi and Tal'Shiar???" *jumps on and begins to pummel the other*)
This would add greater opportunity for more diversity among those of us who enjoy the storylines, developing our character biographies, and RPing.
Here's the thing: the storyline for the Legacy of Romulus is clearly designed with a single person in mind. Even ignoring Virinat, there's to many "only one person can claim to do these things" that the PC does: finding Mol'Rihan, killing Hakeev, etc.
From a storyline perspective, all our character's CAN'T be the one in the campaign story. Roleplay wise, there's no reason to tie your character to the storyline at all, you can be anything you want to be within reason. Former Imperial Navy, Tal Shiar infiltrator, Colonial who joined the Republic, renegade Vulcan who snuck out of the Fed and is passing themselves off as a Romulan... So long as you can justify it, your character can be anything they want, just put it in your bio.
That said, I wouldn't expect Cryptic to support multiple background stories, most games don't, not even free-roming single-player games which otherwise give you complete freedom.
Random? No, however 3-5 available starting colonies with very similar stories would be doable. Hell change the building skins and the bug to something else and you could use the exact same plot, itd just be cheesy, but doable.
Im playing through again and I disagree, its designed for 2 people, Tovan AND his Sidekick.
How do you propose selecting between the 3-5? Unless you're suggesting player choice, the selection would be done by the game engine, which would almost necessarily mean the result would be random. Sure, it could be coded to go down the list each time someone made a Romulan/Reman, but most game developers have an obsession with probability and the random ...
:rolleyes: I still don't understand why some of you have such an aversion to Tovan Khev. So he talks a lot. So he voices his opinion on several occasions. So he offers you advice occasionally. Yes, at times he's WRONG (if you happen to disagree with his opinion and/or advice), but wouldn't an actual bridge officer, in particular, a First Officer, be inclined to chime in betimes? The story does involve situations which the player might not be expected to automatically have all the background about. He fills in those details. Some of you seem to want to fly around the galaxy in utter silence with no guidance or feedback, using your boffs as mindless automatons. An effective leader does not silence his or her officers, but values their expertise, specialized knowledge, and experience, and welcomes advice, feedback, and information. Otherwise, one might as well join the Tal'Shiar, in which superior officers welcome only sycophants into their command, and in which anyone is likely to be shot at any time due to the psychotic whims of their leadership.
I did indeed mean for it to be player selected. Right now Im playin a game called Dragon's Prophet on the side... you can choose from 3 start locations, each has a slightly different twist to the start story and quests.. Mechanically they are all 3 the same tho.
I listed my issues with Tovan in the '***** about tovan' thread so Ill just quote myself.
Minor quips about him really compared to some of the butthurt about him
I thought that was how it was going to be when I spoke to the lore keeper, sadly it was not. But yes I have to agree if the story was like that it would have made it even more richer Experience. I created my character to be part of the Tal'shair who found Evidence that the people she work for where Responsible for her Parents death. So she fake her death and came to Virinat to forget the Past, but Eventually her past Caught up with her. I told the lore keeper I was there before the Maiori and his crew came to Virinat colony in 2409.
And the bit about how a lot of the things could only have been done by you? The same is true in the other factions, as well. How many people went through the Guardian of Forever to rescue Lt. Paris? How many Klingon groups have raided Utopia Planitia? Does everyone go to Gre'thor as a young man? How many times has the Undine infiltrator at P'jem been discovered?
Each mission line assumes that you are The Hero. If you make another you, he/she starts off at the same time as the first one; you're an ensign and the senior surviving officer of your ship at Vega, or the third officer of a B'rel-class frigate that's just taken Franklin Drake in a prisoner transfer, or a Romulan (not necessarily a colonist) on Virinat.
(Nniol tr'Keiniadh used to be the science officer of an Imperial ship, until he found odd encrypted transmissions while then-Captain Hakeev was aboard. Then everyone who learned about those transmissions died, except Nniol due to a hefty dose of plot armor. Nniol finally abandoned his commission and fled into the galaxy, where he worked various odd jobs and tried to drink his memories away. D'vek, or whatever his name is, found him at Drozana, unemployed and drinking the last of his money in the form of a mug of Klingon bloodwine. He came to Virinat about a year before everything went to heck.)
Your character sound very interesting.
Like I said it would have been more richer Experience if only the questions the lore keeper asked our character was Tied to the story as your background (Origins)
(1) where you part of the originally Colony.
(2) did you arrival here before the mairor crew.
(3) where you part of the mairor crew.
(4) or did you just arrival on the colony.
This then effect how the story is Shape through the mission that you do, which intend let you meet people from your Past and so on.
I usually find it best to ignore developers ideas of 'my' story and only accept or integrate certain elements of game 'fact' into mine since developer 'my' stories (especially in mmos) tend to...uh... be disagreeable with me...and very much cloned over... almost everyone...
As to where I was during that whole invasion defense... I don't know because that infection (aka Tovan/Toven whatever...) managed to knock out the nav systems for about 3 days... At least V'Kyr has proper listing on most of his ships... I.R.W.
I think I've met V'kyr in game, haven't I?
If you mean as an npc, then maybe. It's possible it's in the random generator, I tried to pick something Rom/Vulcan sounding.
Cryptic is playing the Rome parrellels to the hilt, and not just in the name.
D'tan is Emperor Constantine.
And I'm not just saying this, he hits all the major points concerning Constantine.
1. He embraces a new philosophy/religion that is different from the old Empire. One that is more "peaceful" and "pacifistic". In Constantine's case, this was Christianity. In D'tan's case this is Reunificationism,
2. He is creating a new capitol since the old one is no longer tenable. Constantine created Constantinople (now Istanbul). D'tan: Mol'Rihan (New Romulus).
3. He has a mystic sign that leads him to these decisions. Constantine had his vision of the cross with the message "In Hoc Signo Vinces" (In this sign you will conquer). D'tan has the Sword of the Raptor's Star.
The parallels with the fall of Rome and the creation of what we call Byzantine continue.
* The Emperors are using foriegn mercenaries to seize power and crown themselves Emperor. This was not unheard of in Roman history (don't have time or the energy to look up specific examples), and was done by Sela using the Hiirogen.
There's more than that, given the Romulans as being obviously inspired by Rome anyway, but the direct parrelels to the formation of the Byzantine Empire and D'tan as Constantine are... pretty explicit... to the point where I cannot believe I missed it until now.
You're confusing Istanbul with Constantanople in some regards.
Constantanople was a new Rome and was the seat of the most powerful European kingdom for quite a long time. Istanbul is, in some ways, a shadow of that, but I'm not gonna get into that.
However, from a gameplay perspective Cryptic has made it clear they're not going to make Romulans into a standing third faction. It would also not make sense to remove all that game content from folks (a reputation faction and the largest outdoor adventure zone in the game). So New Romulus will be open for all through all of STO. That said, remember how long it took Constantinople to fall: a thousand years. The Byzantine Empire actually lasted longer than the Roman Empire (of course, you could say that they were both the same thing, but anyway). So if we follow the Byzantine Parallels for the Republic, we don't have to worry about falling anytime soon, TRIBBLE, we're heading into a new golden age in some respects.
After learning you can't in the first moments of the Rom starting zone, I logged out and promptly deleted my character. I had 0 desire to be a space fairing Bajoran with no ties to the Tal Shiar or Empress Sela.
I think you might be stretching it a bit there but its an interesting theory. One I hope you are very wrong about. Much like I hope you are wrong about the Romulans never standing on their own as a faction. I agree Cryptic is unlikely to do it, but it doesnt mean I dont hope they surprise us.
Even if Romulans do become a third faction in game there isnt really a need to remove Mol'Rihan as a ground zone for all, that aspect is something unique to the Romulan faction and the beginning of an open, cosmopolitan area. Mol'Rihan will also need support for years if not decades of "in game" time even with replicators aiding construction. The easiest path here is watching as the staging area and the other daily location get more "built up" progressively, adding more instanced mission maps off the main one. The Tal Shiar need Mol'Rihan as much as the Republic does. The fact that it so closely resembles Romulus(as stated in the story missions) makes it a psychological treasure when seeking legitimacy via PR campaigns
Yes I am a ware! Istanbul which is derives from the Greek phrase eis tin polin, meaning "into the City is a shadow of what Constantinople was. Your theory is some what Accurate in a sense that, Constantinople was even build on already-existing city which was settled in the early days of Greek colonial expansion, this can be applied to the Dewan who was once the Inhabitants of the planet. But consider the Byzantine not only did they have such powerful army the also had a powerful navy too. I Doubt that the republic can get there anytime soon since you were talking about the Reunification. But I was merely trying state that in other for New Romulus to work like the way Constantinople was we need to make the Republic into a full Fledge faction instead the mini faction that we have. Because if we keep the mini faction stuff than it can not be like Constantinople as you stated.