Thank you for continuing to post your feedback, ideas, questions and concerns. It's great to see that you all are passionate in ensuring they are addressed. The Arc team sincerely appreciates them, too, and is reading them closely.
I'd like to share that we are working on a blog-type post that will answer many of your questions and concerns, so look out for that over the next couple weeks -- I'll be sure to update this thread when it's live and provide a link to where you can read it.
In the meantime, continue posting the aforementioned subjects so we can be sure to include them in the upcoming post.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
You sound like Google!
What really scares me about ARC is seeing the system requirements with 1GB of precious HDD space and 512MB of precious RAM. I have enough RAM chewed on my computer. ARC's integrated zen purchase system would definitely be of no use to me as I don't purchase zen with a credit card. I obtain all I need through the dilithium exchange.
What really scares me about ARC is seeing the system requirements with 1GB of precious HDD space and 512MB of precious RAM. I have enough RAM chewed on my computer.
I couldn't sit through the entire thread as long as it is, so I skipped ahead here. Bleeping WHAT? Nooo, no. Just H-E-double-hockey-sticks no. While I have plenty of RAM on my desktop to handle that, the desktop is a shared fricking computer that I don't always have at my disposal, I do manage to run STO graphically dialed all the way down just peachy on my netbook. 512MB of additional RAM sucked up via ARC and I'm screwed because it'd lock me at 100% usage without any doubt.
Come on, PWE. Think more broadly about your player base. I'm fairly certain more players have older machines or less souped up machines than you think. If you folks force ARC on everyone, especially those who literally don't have the extra CPU or RAM to handle it, instead of leaving it open as an optional platform, I'm going back to MO:UL. At least I wouldn't have to worry about resource gobbling with it.
Thank you for continuing to post your feedback, ideas, questions and concerns. It's great to see that you all are passionate in ensuring they are addressed. The Arc team sincerely appreciates them, too, and is reading them closely.
I'd like to share that we are working on a blog-type post that will answer many of your questions and concerns, so look out for that over the next couple weeks -- I'll be sure to update this thread when it's live and provide a link to where you can read it.
In the meantime, continue posting the aforementioned subjects so we can be sure to include them in the upcoming post.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
I have a question, How many people in the Arc team, and are any of them related to any members of PWE senior management as that would certainly explain a few things.
I do have a tinfoil hat you can borrow if you'd like to answer it without any "outside influence"
Ugh, I was afraid this would happen eventually. I realize that Arc is being used to maintain social connectivity between your games,
Why are managers even allowed to make RL decisions?! They sit in their offices, blind-sided by their own greed, totally estranged from the world they're supposed to manage, all eagerly wanting to cash in on the Facebook hype, all ready to add that 'Like' button and fun and new ways to get into contact with your friends! Meanwhile being egged on by the narketing department, one floor below, glowing at the new opportunity to spam you with their own products and other 'third party' ads.
I mean, if even 1 single manager had even 1 iota of knowledge about the real world, they'd understand *nobody* wants their annoying portals/spamhouse platforms. No, I don't want to hear about Neverwinter (anything about it only reminds me again why STO is so buggy to-date). No, I don't want a portal with news in it. And if I want to get into contact with my friends, I'll just call them, like a normal person, thank you! No, I don't want your spyware to offer me 'personalized' ads based on the content of my harddisk (which ppl no doubt will have to agree to in an updated EULA).
All I want is STO. And if any of you managers saw how much RL money I spend on your game, you'd know better than to try and push Arc on me too. A small reminder:
Rule of Acquisition 57: Good customers are as rare as Latinum--treasure them.
What's this all about then. I do not get it i'm sorry.
The fact that we are inevitably going to have to give up a perfectly good launcher to use a piece of software that takes up an incredibly large amount of space and performs unknown actions in the background while only providing another hoop to jump through and an advertising platform for PWE to market their other games which multiple threads have shown the vast majority of the STO player base has no interest in.
Also, the fact this is being pushed so hard ("for you", "Incredible", "awesome", ad nauseum) is a giant red flag to many users including myself that are no actual benefits to the user, just to PWE to push their products and possibly even data mine our PC's. As far as I know that hasn't been proven, but to quote Captain Picard, "Everything about this seems wrong."
It also doesn't help that other gaming companies have required their versions of Arc to be used on other games and they have taken up large amounts of hard drive space connection bandwidth and been so obtrusive that the gaming experience was virtually destroyed.
If someone wants to use Arc, then by all means, they should be able to do it. However, there are many of us in the STO community that have been bitten by such third party software in the past and do not want the game we have come to love corrupted and possibly even destroyed by what is at best a marketing ploy.
In short, requiring the use of Arc is a rotten deal for a large number of people.
How will you address the fact that this topic is 36 pages of people telling PWE Arc is a bad idea?
Time for a dose of brutal honesty brandon, if that post is all praise and no mention of how much we (the players) disapprove, then it will be dismissed as propanganda and lies.
No matter how much you talk it up, neither you or PWE can change our opinion.
And honestly, what can they do?
Stop us playing STO because we refuse to use Arc?
I honestly had an open mind about it until it completely wiped my existing client and made me re-patch it. So that in conjunction with the forcing things on player base and the foul afking problem in this game I think if it become mandatory you can expect about a ratio of 1000 players per post to be dropping STO and it becoming like another one of those anime clones out there dead in the water.
I do feel bad for the arc team because of two things is going to happen as a result of what they do:
#1. It will causes a mass # of people who are forced to use it to play STO to cause a major decline in "metrics" seen with STO eventually becoming its downfall.
#2. If they actually listen which I doubt it will never see the light of day.
I don't use facebook or twitter or whatever is the latest social networking fad there is.
Which is why I find it annoying that every corporation and person feels compelled to use it over more reliable forms of communication (official forums, email, skype calls etc).
Steam, xFire and ingame friendlists are good enough for me.
Let me be clear, I want real friends, not someone who adds me to a list just to have me on it and then we never speak again.
And well, I have a timeout policy, if someone who added me once doesn't contact me again, they're removed from the list.
As regards Arc in this aspect, I can see how that will be abused as well.
Add your friends, lots of them!
Oh wait, they're playing some other game, not STO or CO.
How does that help me? Unfriend!
I'm starting to think this is a scam to get Cryptic customers to appear to be PWE customers.
Judging from general sentiment, even though PWE acquired Cryptic, the playerbases have remained seperate, Cryptic players have had very little to do with PWE players.
So PWE is trying to change that by using Arc's social networking functions to get us to engage more with people we aren't actually in contact with.
Also, I'm suspecting they may have planned for the peer pressure aspect PWE players will exert on Cryptic players:
Come and play this game with us, stop playing STO or CO!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
There's not really much more to say on the matter.
Do you want ARC?
Yes - [ ]
No - [x]
You can want or not all day long, it doesn't matter, same for the rest of posters here. This decision is made by business execs on the top of the food chain, you know ones not giving a **** about your opinion, games quality etc. All they care about is financial/fiscal year list and how it will affect their bonuses.
Same protest, just a lot more consumers were against it, was done when Uplay was announced, no one wanted TRIBBLE malware/spyware on their machines. Check how that went. Up to this day, uplay is still pile of rubbish, constantly crashing, freezing/locking up both the client and the game running, servers are often down and with Ubi games being directly linked to it, you are usually unable to play at all.
All the income from advertising on Arc is a reason enough to push it trough the door, with a constant growth as long as the client improves/spreads over more games. Even if they loose most of the rather small playerbase sto currently has, profit margins from the client alone, in the next few years, will pretty much cover any loss pwe suffers now. Also, you keep forgetting their main market is Asia with Cryptic just being another 'western' experiment, meaning you are just another lab rat for 'em.
Soon on your friendly neighborhood TV station.. Star Trek: The wrath of Yoshimoto
if it turns out I'm forced top agree to install some sort of 3rd party ad engine or other malware; I'm gone from PWE/Cryptic games for good. (Star Citizen appears to be on a good development track atm.
I'm not the only one still playing STO to pass the time until Star Citizen launches then. 2015 could not come soon enough IMO.
You can want or not all day long, it doesn't matter, same for the rest of posters here. This decision is made by business execs on the top of the food chain, you know ones not giving a **** about your opinion, games quality etc. All they care about is financial/fiscal year list and how it will affect their bonuses.
Yep. Ere long I expect Brandon to announce the mandatory use of Arc, due to "overwhelming support from the community." *cough* Wait for it.
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
Seems that the suspicions here that PWE want to push ARC to try and get people to play their other games may be closer to the truth than suspected ,I've started getting spam from PWE to play their other games ,I've never received any before and now to suddenly start getting emails and the whole PR blurb for arc seems a little to coincidental!
I am starting to wonder about keeping paying a sub for STO though ,don't really see the point of paying for something that's more and more likely to get shoved down our throats despite the protests.
And how do you think I responded to the last company that insisted I play games that weren't in my interest area?
It involved rude words and direct instructions to cease the advertising, followed by an email block for 2 years when they refused to stop.
So yeah, it's not going to fly with me if PWE attempt this.
And it was a similar deal, Asian company bought out an American mmo to try and break into the American market, killed the mmo to try and force the American players to move to another mmo they were releasing.
The universal response of the American playerbase was this:
1. Your new mmo is garbage, I tried it and it's horrible.
2. They stopped being customers and went looking for other games to play.
That's a hint PWE, don't try to market to a non-receptive playerbase.
It's a mistake commonly made because someone plays a specific kind of mmo, they must play all kinds of mmos, because they are mmos.
If you don't factor in the reason that they are playing a specific kind of mmo, you're doomed to fail.
For me personally, I'm a Star Trek/sci-fi and superhero fan, so I wanted to play STO and CO for those reasons.
The few times I tried an mmo that wasn't in those areas, I hated the experience and decided NEVER to do it again!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Yep. Ere long I expect Brandon to announce the mandatory use of Arc, due to "overwhelming support from the community." *cough* Wait for it.
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
Funny part is, I actually tried it out when they announced that it was available for download, I think a month or two ago. Then they asked for feedback about Arc... and I realized it didn't do a whole lot for me, and promptly uninstalled it. :P
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
And how do you think I responded to the last company that insisted I play games that weren't in my interest area?
It involved rude words and direct instructions to cease the advertising, followed by an email block for 2 years when they refused to stop.
So yeah, it's not going to fly with me if PWE attempt this.
And it was a similar deal, Asian company bought out an American mmo to try and break into the American market, killed the mmo to try and force the American players to move to another mmo they were releasing.
The universal response of the American playerbase was this:
1. Your new mmo is garbage, I tried it and it's horrible.
2. They stopped being customers and went looking for other games to play.
That's a hint PWE, don't try to market to a non-receptive playerbase.
It's a mistake commonly made because someone plays a specific kind of mmo, they must play all kinds of mmos, because they are mmos.
If you don't factor in the reason that they are playing a specific kind of mmo, you're doomed to fail.
For me personally, I'm a Star Trek/sci-fi and superhero fan, so I wanted to play STO and CO for those reasons.
The few times I tried an mmo that wasn't in those areas, I hated the experience and decided NEVER to do it again!
Thank you for continuing to post your feedback, ideas, questions and concerns. It's great to see that you all are passionate in ensuring they are addressed. The Arc team sincerely appreciates them, too, and is reading them closely.
I'd like to share that we are working on a blog-type post that will answer many of your questions and concerns, so look out for that over the next couple weeks -- I'll be sure to update this thread when it's live and provide a link to where you can read it.
In the meantime, continue posting the aforementioned subjects so we can be sure to include them in the upcoming post.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Way to sidestep all the questions that have been asked regarding this. And apart from a generic thank you for feedback which isn'r really feedback we are saying if you do this you will lose a loyal player base. You mention on the main page the State of game. I can tell you the state if ARC goes live there will be no-one around to play come season 8 the game will become a ghost town. Nobody wants this piece of trash and after a sabbatical I will be coming back to the game soon (If I can be bothered to) but if this goes mandatory not only will PWE go under but so will Cryptic don't alienate your playerbase to add a marketing ploy as all you will do is damage yourself. The only reason most people play this is because of the Tag STAR TREK. I have in the past considered becoming a gold member since I normally put a fair amount in game but recently for the last few months I have not bothered as quite frankly the bugs and issues the game constantly have have made me consider other prospects to put my money on. I will wait and see if the bugs get fixed ARC remains optional and then I may reconsider by purchasing Zen again and then take it again from there. But something tells me that you have recieved the last money from myself and I'm just biding my time before another more worthy game attracts my attention and money
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That's a hint PWE, don't try to market to a non-receptive playerbase.
It's a mistake commonly made because someone plays a specific kind of mmo, they must play all kinds of mmos, because they are mmos.
Agreed .
It may be an 'elitist' POV , but I don't think that space pew pew games (MMO's especially) have that theoretically large MMO crowd to draw from -- the ones that wonder from one magical sword fest to the next .
We're not the bullet shooting crowd either .
That means (again from my POV) that STO / Cryptic / PW have a much smaller , much finite 'crowd' to draw from .
They should understand that and they should cater to that by padding endgame as much as possible (to retain the players they do have) with things the players actually ask for , like STF's , PVP , Foundry updates .
Insead Cryptic flails about like an Odyssey , putting out "adventure zones" and "reputations" , talking about how they loose ppl during the Tutorial phase , but then they release LoR instead of making tutorials .
(the Feds are still their largest player faction and they didn't get a tutorial)
They say one thing , do the other and wonder why they get so much flak .
Plus they seemingly ignore that their hardcore player base is finite .
STO is not a "2 months MMO , then move on" -- yet it's being treated as such .
You can want or not all day long, it doesn't matter, same for the rest of posters here. This decision is made by business execs on the top of the food chain, you know ones not giving a **** about your opinion, games quality etc. All they care about is financial/fiscal year list and how it will affect their bonuses.
This ^^
/wins the thread
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
One other thing to keep in mind. MMO's are very grindy, very time consuming. I'd say 99% of the people who play an MMO play only one for that very reason. If ARC does what it's supposed to do, and gets people play other MMO's, you're doing nothing more than sending your own players away.
You've hit the nail on the head, and I think this is worth repeating:
An extremely large percentage of people play only one MMO!
The chance that someone is going to install ARC and suddenly start playing more PWE games is small. A few people will, sure. But the vast majority won't, they'll stick with their one MMO.
So this whole ARC program can never do what PWE wants it to do, which is to get people addicted to multiple PWE products simultaneously. It's just not going to happen. The absolute best case scenario for PWE is that people find a new game they like in ARC and they drop STO in favor of their new game.
The worst case scenario for ARC is that people get so irritated and angry at being forced to install a crappy, poorly-thought-out 10 gig piece of bloatware and adware that people abandon the entire range of PWE products and move to a competitor's MMO. There a ton of choices out there.
And the worst-case scenario looks to me personally like it's almost guaranteed at this point.
I'm an engineer in RL and I've been out of college for around 12 years and this Arc shovelware reminds me of a lot of similarly absolutely boneheaded moves by management in my profession. So, my question is this:
Exactly when in management school does the lobotomy that removes the common sense portion of the brain take place?
I'm an engineer in RL and I've been out of college for around 12 years and this Arc shovelware reminds me of a lot of similarly absolutely boneheaded moves by management in my profession. So, my question is this:
Exactly when in management school does the lobotomy that removes the common sense portion of the brain take place?
Can't tell you when, but I can tell you why. It's all the result of what I call 'Pokemon Economics.' Ever seen James (from Jesse & James) tell Meoth how he's got the perfect scheme to get rich? PWE management reminds me of them. "We're gonna make everything bound to character. And then we're gonna sell 10 more games. And then people will get 10 more accounts on each 10 games. So we're gonna sell 10x10 times as much Scimitars!"
The sad part is, that even very young children watching Pokemon laugh when James reasons like that. They may not yet know what a logarithmic scale is (or a linear one, for that matter), but even a 5-year-old understands, instictively, that James' reasoning is way off. And yet, this is how your typical manager thinks. They're not stupid per se: just blind-sided by greed and their next bonus.
In reality, of course, things don't quite work that way. If you're anything like me, you have invested quite a bit of money in your main, but you're not gonna buy that second (or third) Temporal Warfare Set for your alt. Or that second Tal Shiar Adapted destroyer. You will likely train your alt up, using just green and blue stuff you get from drops. You'll be reluctant to start the rep system all over again; and you may even decide not to doff -- at least, you won't start an expensive all-purple collection again. And all of that makes you quite normal.
So, here's my advice to PWE: stop thinking like James. No, I'm not interested in your 10 other games. No, I'm not gonna get 10 more accounts on each. And no, I won't spend 10x10 more in total. If you want to continue making money off of me, stop the BS that is Arc, and finally fix some bugs, instead of always trying to sell me new stuff. Give STO some love, and make me feel it. Then nobody needs Arc: we already didn't, and then you won't either.
I am asking you please, please, please DON'T make this mandatory (on this note, are you informing new players that they will be downloading invasive software to download/play the game?). I know I am just one person and my opinion may not count for much, but I really don't want to leave this game. I have a lot of time, effort and money invested in my characters, and I really love STO. But if I have to use invasive software like arc, steam, raptr or whatever to launch/play the game I'll be gone in a shot. And I know I'm not the only one. This is not going to make anything "better" for me. STO is the only game I play so I don't need easy access to all pwe games. If I need to communicate with anyone I do it in game. The regular launcher is fine. If you want to implement this, fine, do so, just PLEASE DON"T make it mandatory.
By the way, I will be getting enough money soon for a lifetime subscription. I would like to know if this is going to be forced on us BEFORE I purchase it, so could you please just tell us flat out if you are going to be requiring arc or not, just a simple yes or no please. Thank you.
not sure how you call this invasive it does not send no personal info to the government or to PWE, so what is so invasive?
My only thing about it so far that I don't like is it will not let me choose where I want to install the game I have a HD specifically for my games and Arc wants to put the game on C drive and that is not an option so if your looking for feedback maybe this is something PWE can look into.
Sigh. Is this a contest, PWE? To see how much more out-of-touch you can get with your player base? WHO ARE YOU COMPETING AGAINST?!
I can name a few of them
1. Origins
2. steam
3. UPlay
do I dare say more
In reality, of course, things don't quite work that way. If you're anything like me, you have invested quite a bit of money in your main, but you're not gonna buy that second (or third) Temporal Warfare Set for your alt. Or that second Tal Shiar Adapted destroyer. You will likely train your alt up, using just green and blue stuff you get from drops. You'll be reluctant to start the rep system all over again; and you may even decide not to doff -- at least, you won't start an expensive all-purple collection again. And all of that makes you quite normal.
guess I am not normal I have 3 alt accounts besides my main account, those accounts are for helping my fleet nothing more so yes they are mostly in green and some blue items for equipment, My main account has 26 characters and all run the rep system, Doffs etc. I plan on two more characters by years end or the beginning of next year, that's not including what might come in a future expansion.
One other thing to keep in mind. MMO's are very grindy, very time consuming. I'd say 99% of the people who play an MMO play only one for that very reason. If ARC does what it's supposed to do, and gets people play other MMO's, you're doing nothing more than sending your own players away.
STO is my main MMO, but I do play NeverWinter, SWTOR <- although not as much now since it is so P2W
and Rift <- but not as much as I used too, but the point is if I get burnt out on STO i go to another play there for a few days or so and then come back, I don't take this hiatus for months at a time, just enough to give me the break I need, and I know a lot of other players in STO that do the same, now maybe we are the 1% you say that don't just play one MMO I don't know but I am guessing that the 99% that you said is no where near the truth and more do have atleast 2 or more mmo's they play.
not sure how you call this invasive it does not send no personal info to the government or to PWE, so what is so invasive?
My only thing about it so far that I don't like is it will not let me choose where I want to install the game I have a HD specifically for my games and Arc wants to put the game on C drive and that is not an option so if your looking for feedback maybe this is something PWE can look into.
Go into ARC settings and change the download destination. That was one of the things I checked when testing it - seeing what the options were.
Kinda wish ARC was an option for new players, actually, instead of being forced on them.
not sure how you call this invasive it does not send no personal info to the government or to PWE, so what is so invasive?
Hi bughunter357,
I believe you are conflating the word "invasive" with the concept of "data-mining."
Invasive:
1. characterized by or involving invasion; offensive: invasive war.
2. invading, or tending to invade; intrusive.
3. Medicine/Medical . requiring the entry of a needle, catheter, or other instrument into a part of the body, especially in a diagnostic procedure, as a biopsy.
4. relating to or denoting cancer at the stage at which it has spread from its site of origin to other tissues.
Data-mining:
1. the process of collecting, searching through, and analyzing a large amount of data in a database, as to discover patterns or relationships.
2. The technique of identifying patterns and relationships within large databases through the use of advanced statistical methods.
Thus when Arc (PWE/Cryptic) is accessing your computer for the purpose of determining which advertisements possess the greatest chance of attracting your attention that is data-mining. Is that invasive? Well, it is most certainly intrusive, but for it to become invasive, it would have to be done without an invitation from you as the owner of the computer in question. I have delivered no such invitation and, in fact I have quite clearly, I believe, put out the "NO SOLICITING" sign. The only invitation I have issued is for the game in question, Star Trek Online. I have not and will not extend an invitation to anything that I would characterize as being as useful to me as whiffy bilge water.
Please note, bughunter357, that I am not jumping on you. I am simply attempting to illustrate that invasive is one of many accurate words that may be used to describe Arc if it is not optional.
The following is a general posting and not directed specifically at bughunter357.
PWE has been absolutely silent on this issue.
Cryptic has entered the conversation a bit, but doesn't really tell us all that much.
We, on the other hand, can't seem to shut-up about it
Here is what I am seeing:
A. PWE/Cryptic wish to implement the Arc Platform.
B. Players/Customers voice their concerns and pose questions.
C. Cryptic (not PWE) responds with very little new information and avoids/is looking into specific answers to specific questions.
D. Players/Customers suggest the compromise of making the Arc Platform optional.
E. Now we wait to hear back on said compromise.
Now, when I put the issue into this context, I have more thoughts on the matter.
We are told that Arc will "help to enhance the PWE gaming experience," but it seems to be little more than a 1GB communication tool rather than something that improves actual gameplay. This is disingenuous at best.
If Arc truly were the greatly great thing we are told it is then it would have been made optional from the outset. Even in this day and age there is no better advertising that word of mouth. When the vast majority of players tell each other, "The game is so much better when you play it with Arc. What? No, it doesn't give me information I don't need about games I don't play. If anything it has helped to reduce lag, disconnects, and long download times. They've even designed it so it won't dig non game-related data out of your computer!" then there may be just cause to make Arc a permanent feature.
The fact that we're getting no direct answers to direct questions is not merely troubling, but also extremely annoying. Just tell us what the plan is and when it will be implemented.
Or if the existence of this thread has had any bearing on the matter and further discussions are taking place simply tell us that. It's not as though a trade secret or proprietary technology will be loosed upon the world as the concept of a gaming platform is hardly new.
Compromise. The players are willing to reach a compromise. Are we to believe that PWE/Cryptic is not?
Finally, I can't download Arc for the simple reason that assurances that it will not be TRIBBLE, co-opted, or otherwise used for nefarious purposes mean very little from an organization that can change its End User License Agreement at will. It's a security issue. In the worst case scenario it's a National Security issue as I illustrated in a prior post in this thread.
In conclusion, well, at least until my next post...
I have to say that PWEbranflakes has my sympathy. He is basically stuck in the middle on this. For all we know he has the same reaction to Arc as many of us do. He has the unenviable task of having to deal with our indignation while being required by his superiors
to continue to try to convince us that this awful plan, the Arc Platform, is a good idea. It's a textbook Kobayashi Maru.
So Mr. Felczer please understand that when I throw your words back at you I am not throwing them back at you. The thing is, I speak a multitude of languages. All of them are English. Two that I study quite often are "Marketing" and "Corporate." Neither of them is very convincing, I'm afraid, and thus I tend to get exuberant in their debunking. However the fact that I will not attack you on a personal level should not indicate that I will not make my position known.
I wish you and the rest of the Star Trek Online Team all the fortune you can handle.
I believe you are conflating the word "invasive" with the concept of "data-mining."
Invasive:
1. characterized by or involving invasion; offensive: invasive war.
2. invading, or tending to invade; intrusive.
3. Medicine/Medical . requiring the entry of a needle, catheter, or other instrument into a part of the body, especially in a diagnostic procedure, as a biopsy.
4. relating to or denoting cancer at the stage at which it has spread from its site of origin to other tissues.
Data-mining:
1. the process of collecting, searching through, and analyzing a large amount of data in a database, as to discover patterns or relationships.
2. The technique of identifying patterns and relationships within large databases through the use of advanced statistical methods.
Thus when Arc (PWE/Cryptic) is accessing your computer for the purpose of determining which advertisements possess the greatest chance of attracting your attention that is data-mining. Is that invasive? Well, it is most certainly intrusive, but for it to become invasive, it would have to be done without an invitation from you as the owner of the computer in question. I have delivered no such invitation and, in fact I have quite clearly, I believe, put out the "NO SOLICITING" sign. The only invitation I have issued is for the game in question, Star Trek Online. I have not and will not extend an invitation to anything that I would characterize as being as useful to me as whiffy bilge water.
Please note, bughunter357, that I am not jumping on you. I am simply attempting to illustrate that invasive is one of many accurate words that may be used to describe Arc if it is not optional.
The following is a general posting and not directed specifically at bughunter357.
PWE has been absolutely silent on this issue.
Cryptic has entered the conversation a bit, but doesn't really tell us all that much.
We, on the other hand, can't seem to shut-up about it
Here is what I am seeing:
A. PWE/Cryptic wish to implement the Arc Platform.
B. Players/Customers voice their concerns and pose questions.
C. Cryptic (not PWE) responds with very little new information and avoids/is looking into specific answers to specific questions.
D. Players/Customers suggest the compromise of making the Arc Platform optional.
E. Now we wait to hear back on said compromise.
Now, when I put the issue into this context, I have more thoughts on the matter.
We are told that Arc will "help to enhance the PWE gaming experience," but it seems to be little more than a 1GB communication tool rather than something that improves actual gameplay. This is disingenuous at best.
If Arc truly were the greatly great thing we are told it is then it would have been made optional from the outset. Even in this day and age there is no better advertising that word of mouth. When the vast majority of players tell each other, "The game is so much better when you play it with Arc. What? No, it doesn't give me information I don't need about games I don't play. If anything it has helped to reduce lag, disconnects, and long download times. They've even designed it so it won't dig non game-related data out of your computer!" then there may be just cause to make Arc a permanent feature.
The fact that we're getting no direct answers to direct questions is not merely troubling, but also extremely annoying. Just tell us what the plan is and when it will be implemented.
Or if the existence of this thread has had any bearing on the matter and further discussions are taking place simply tell us that. It's not as though a trade secret or proprietary technology will be loosed upon the world as the concept of a gaming platform is hardly new.
Compromise. The players are willing to reach a compromise. Are we to believe that PWE/Cryptic is not?
Finally, I can't download Arc for the simple reason that assurances that it will not be TRIBBLE, co-opted, or otherwise used for nefarious purposes mean very little from an organization that can change its End User License Agreement at will. It's a security issue. In the worst case scenario it's a National Security issue as I illustrated in a prior post in this thread.
In conclusion, well, at least until my next post...
I have to say that PWEbranflakes has my sympathy. He is basically stuck in the middle on this. For all we know he has the same reaction to Arc as many of us do. He has the unenviable task of having to deal with our indignation while being required by his superiors
to continue to try to convince us that this awful plan, the Arc Platform, is a good idea. It's a textbook Kobayashi Maru.
So Mr. Felczer please understand that when I throw your words back at you I am not throwing them back at you. The thing is, I speak a multitude of languages. All of them are English. Two that I study quite often are "Marketing" and "Corporate." Neither of them is very convincing, I'm afraid, and thus I tend to get exuberant in their debunking. However the fact that I will not attack you on a personal level should not indicate that I will not make my position known.
I wish you and the rest of the Star Trek Online Team all the fortune you can handle.
I was not the first person to use the word "invasive" I was merely asking the question of how they thought it was, I understand your point, but the fact remains that Steam,Origins,Uplay etc all are setups that many games are played through and do not use or put spyware on the computer now many people think the opposite but from a player that uses all of these I have never had a issue with any of the above listed and in some cases i.e. Steam there security system work a whole lot better than say the account guard that is currently inline on STO in this case Arc might eventually use a similar setup to improve security so that accounts do not get TRIBBLE, now nothing is full proof as we all know and there will be incursions where someone will try to get into the system it has happen in the past and will happen again even steam it happens in nothing we can do but just try to stay one step ahead of the "hackers".
But since this is still in a testing phase I do think some people are go over board and hitting the panic button a little to soon saying they will quit the game if this gets implemented, PWEbranflakes is the PWE rep for the forum community so in a sense PWE is responding just they have not put out all the details of what they intend to do and they may not know what they intend to do because as I say it again Arc is still in early test phase, so I say to all that are worried about this is to sit back and relax to a deep breath and enjoy STO for now, once more info comes out then on what PWE plans to do with this then panic if you so choose, right now the one thing I see that is a major problem is that if you choose to uninstall the game or get a new computer and if your unlike me when it comes to reformatting or what ever and don't save the game files so you can just cut and paste them back on then you are forced to use Arc not sure that was the right move by PWE but we will see.
Comments
You sound like Google!
What really scares me about ARC is seeing the system requirements with 1GB of precious HDD space and 512MB of precious RAM. I have enough RAM chewed on my computer. ARC's integrated zen purchase system would definitely be of no use to me as I don't purchase zen with a credit card. I obtain all I need through the dilithium exchange.
Come on, PWE. Think more broadly about your player base. I'm fairly certain more players have older machines or less souped up machines than you think. If you folks force ARC on everyone, especially those who literally don't have the extra CPU or RAM to handle it, instead of leaving it open as an optional platform, I'm going back to MO:UL. At least I wouldn't have to worry about resource gobbling with it.
I have a question, How many people in the Arc team, and are any of them related to any members of PWE senior management as that would certainly explain a few things.
I do have a tinfoil hat you can borrow if you'd like to answer it without any "outside influence"
Why are managers even allowed to make RL decisions?! They sit in their offices, blind-sided by their own greed, totally estranged from the world they're supposed to manage, all eagerly wanting to cash in on the Facebook hype, all ready to add that 'Like' button and fun and new ways to get into contact with your friends! Meanwhile being egged on by the narketing department, one floor below, glowing at the new opportunity to spam you with their own products and other 'third party' ads.
I mean, if even 1 single manager had even 1 iota of knowledge about the real world, they'd understand *nobody* wants their annoying portals/spamhouse platforms. No, I don't want to hear about Neverwinter (anything about it only reminds me again why STO is so buggy to-date). No, I don't want a portal with news in it. And if I want to get into contact with my friends, I'll just call them, like a normal person, thank you! No, I don't want your spyware to offer me 'personalized' ads based on the content of my harddisk (which ppl no doubt will have to agree to in an updated EULA).
All I want is STO. And if any of you managers saw how much RL money I spend on your game, you'd know better than to try and push Arc on me too. A small reminder:
Rule of Acquisition 57: Good customers are as rare as Latinum--treasure them.
The fact that we are inevitably going to have to give up a perfectly good launcher to use a piece of software that takes up an incredibly large amount of space and performs unknown actions in the background while only providing another hoop to jump through and an advertising platform for PWE to market their other games which multiple threads have shown the vast majority of the STO player base has no interest in.
Also, the fact this is being pushed so hard ("for you", "Incredible", "awesome", ad nauseum) is a giant red flag to many users including myself that are no actual benefits to the user, just to PWE to push their products and possibly even data mine our PC's. As far as I know that hasn't been proven, but to quote Captain Picard, "Everything about this seems wrong."
It also doesn't help that other gaming companies have required their versions of Arc to be used on other games and they have taken up large amounts of hard drive space connection bandwidth and been so obtrusive that the gaming experience was virtually destroyed.
If someone wants to use Arc, then by all means, they should be able to do it. However, there are many of us in the STO community that have been bitten by such third party software in the past and do not want the game we have come to love corrupted and possibly even destroyed by what is at best a marketing ploy.
In short, requiring the use of Arc is a rotten deal for a large number of people.
I honestly had an open mind about it until it completely wiped my existing client and made me re-patch it. So that in conjunction with the forcing things on player base and the foul afking problem in this game I think if it become mandatory you can expect about a ratio of 1000 players per post to be dropping STO and it becoming like another one of those anime clones out there dead in the water.
I do feel bad for the arc team because of two things is going to happen as a result of what they do:
#1. It will causes a mass # of people who are forced to use it to play STO to cause a major decline in "metrics" seen with STO eventually becoming its downfall.
#2. If they actually listen which I doubt it will never see the light of day.
I don't use facebook or twitter or whatever is the latest social networking fad there is.
Which is why I find it annoying that every corporation and person feels compelled to use it over more reliable forms of communication (official forums, email, skype calls etc).
Steam, xFire and ingame friendlists are good enough for me.
Let me be clear, I want real friends, not someone who adds me to a list just to have me on it and then we never speak again.
And well, I have a timeout policy, if someone who added me once doesn't contact me again, they're removed from the list.
As regards Arc in this aspect, I can see how that will be abused as well.
Add your friends, lots of them!
Oh wait, they're playing some other game, not STO or CO.
How does that help me?
Unfriend!
I'm starting to think this is a scam to get Cryptic customers to appear to be PWE customers.
Judging from general sentiment, even though PWE acquired Cryptic, the playerbases have remained seperate, Cryptic players have had very little to do with PWE players.
So PWE is trying to change that by using Arc's social networking functions to get us to engage more with people we aren't actually in contact with.
Also, I'm suspecting they may have planned for the peer pressure aspect PWE players will exert on Cryptic players:
Come and play this game with us, stop playing STO or CO!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
You can want or not all day long, it doesn't matter, same for the rest of posters here. This decision is made by business execs on the top of the food chain, you know ones not giving a **** about your opinion, games quality etc. All they care about is financial/fiscal year list and how it will affect their bonuses.
Same protest, just a lot more consumers were against it, was done when Uplay was announced, no one wanted TRIBBLE malware/spyware on their machines. Check how that went. Up to this day, uplay is still pile of rubbish, constantly crashing, freezing/locking up both the client and the game running, servers are often down and with Ubi games being directly linked to it, you are usually unable to play at all.
All the income from advertising on Arc is a reason enough to push it trough the door, with a constant growth as long as the client improves/spreads over more games. Even if they loose most of the rather small playerbase sto currently has, profit margins from the client alone, in the next few years, will pretty much cover any loss pwe suffers now. Also, you keep forgetting their main market is Asia with Cryptic just being another 'western' experiment, meaning you are just another lab rat for 'em.
Soon on your friendly neighborhood TV station.. Star Trek: The wrath of Yoshimoto
I'm not the only one still playing STO to pass the time until Star Citizen launches then. 2015 could not come soon enough IMO.
Kirk's Protege.
Yep. Ere long I expect Brandon to announce the mandatory use of Arc, due to "overwhelming support from the community." *cough* Wait for it.
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
After that will come a survey from PWE trying to find out why there is another huge drop in profits LOL.
I am starting to wonder about keeping paying a sub for STO though ,don't really see the point of paying for something that's more and more likely to get shoved down our throats despite the protests.
It involved rude words and direct instructions to cease the advertising, followed by an email block for 2 years when they refused to stop.
So yeah, it's not going to fly with me if PWE attempt this.
And it was a similar deal, Asian company bought out an American mmo to try and break into the American market, killed the mmo to try and force the American players to move to another mmo they were releasing.
The universal response of the American playerbase was this:
1. Your new mmo is garbage, I tried it and it's horrible.
2. They stopped being customers and went looking for other games to play.
That's a hint PWE, don't try to market to a non-receptive playerbase.
It's a mistake commonly made because someone plays a specific kind of mmo, they must play all kinds of mmos, because they are mmos.
If you don't factor in the reason that they are playing a specific kind of mmo, you're doomed to fail.
For me personally, I'm a Star Trek/sci-fi and superhero fan, so I wanted to play STO and CO for those reasons.
The few times I tried an mmo that wasn't in those areas, I hated the experience and decided NEVER to do it again!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Funny part is, I actually tried it out when they announced that it was available for download, I think a month or two ago. Then they asked for feedback about Arc... and I realized it didn't do a whole lot for me, and promptly uninstalled it. :P
The doors, Mister Scott!
Hey, stop reading my mind and posting it here!
I couldn't agree more with every word you wrote.
Recruitment: Neverwinter Online (spotlight)(wiki) - Star Trek Online Federation - Star Trek Online Klingon - Star Trek Online Romulan - Champions Online
Guild FAQs: Neverwinter FAQ - Star Trek FAQ - Champions FAQ ..........Facebook: Mattachine Guild
Way to sidestep all the questions that have been asked regarding this. And apart from a generic thank you for feedback which isn'r really feedback we are saying if you do this you will lose a loyal player base. You mention on the main page the State of game. I can tell you the state if ARC goes live there will be no-one around to play come season 8 the game will become a ghost town. Nobody wants this piece of trash and after a sabbatical I will be coming back to the game soon (If I can be bothered to) but if this goes mandatory not only will PWE go under but so will Cryptic don't alienate your playerbase to add a marketing ploy as all you will do is damage yourself. The only reason most people play this is because of the Tag STAR TREK. I have in the past considered becoming a gold member since I normally put a fair amount in game but recently for the last few months I have not bothered as quite frankly the bugs and issues the game constantly have have made me consider other prospects to put my money on. I will wait and see if the bugs get fixed ARC remains optional and then I may reconsider by purchasing Zen again and then take it again from there. But something tells me that you have recieved the last money from myself and I'm just biding my time before another more worthy game attracts my attention and money
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Agreed .
It may be an 'elitist' POV , but I don't think that space pew pew games (MMO's especially) have that theoretically large MMO crowd to draw from -- the ones that wonder from one magical sword fest to the next .
We're not the bullet shooting crowd either .
That means (again from my POV) that STO / Cryptic / PW have a much smaller , much finite 'crowd' to draw from .
They should understand that and they should cater to that by padding endgame as much as possible (to retain the players they do have) with things the players actually ask for , like STF's , PVP , Foundry updates .
Insead Cryptic flails about like an Odyssey , putting out "adventure zones" and "reputations" , talking about how they loose ppl during the Tutorial phase , but then they release LoR instead of making tutorials .
(the Feds are still their largest player faction and they didn't get a tutorial)
They say one thing , do the other and wonder why they get so much flak .
Plus they seemingly ignore that their hardcore player base is finite .
STO is not a "2 months MMO , then move on" -- yet it's being treated as such .
This ^^
/wins the thread
I hope STO get's better ...
You've hit the nail on the head, and I think this is worth repeating:
An extremely large percentage of people play only one MMO!
The chance that someone is going to install ARC and suddenly start playing more PWE games is small. A few people will, sure. But the vast majority won't, they'll stick with their one MMO.
So this whole ARC program can never do what PWE wants it to do, which is to get people addicted to multiple PWE products simultaneously. It's just not going to happen. The absolute best case scenario for PWE is that people find a new game they like in ARC and they drop STO in favor of their new game.
The worst case scenario for ARC is that people get so irritated and angry at being forced to install a crappy, poorly-thought-out 10 gig piece of bloatware and adware that people abandon the entire range of PWE products and move to a competitor's MMO. There a ton of choices out there.
And the worst-case scenario looks to me personally like it's almost guaranteed at this point.
I'm an engineer in RL and I've been out of college for around 12 years and this Arc shovelware reminds me of a lot of similarly absolutely boneheaded moves by management in my profession. So, my question is this:
Exactly when in management school does the lobotomy that removes the common sense portion of the brain take place?
Can't tell you when, but I can tell you why. It's all the result of what I call 'Pokemon Economics.' Ever seen James (from Jesse & James) tell Meoth how he's got the perfect scheme to get rich? PWE management reminds me of them. "We're gonna make everything bound to character. And then we're gonna sell 10 more games. And then people will get 10 more accounts on each 10 games. So we're gonna sell 10x10 times as much Scimitars!"
The sad part is, that even very young children watching Pokemon laugh when James reasons like that. They may not yet know what a logarithmic scale is (or a linear one, for that matter), but even a 5-year-old understands, instictively, that James' reasoning is way off. And yet, this is how your typical manager thinks. They're not stupid per se: just blind-sided by greed and their next bonus.
In reality, of course, things don't quite work that way. If you're anything like me, you have invested quite a bit of money in your main, but you're not gonna buy that second (or third) Temporal Warfare Set for your alt. Or that second Tal Shiar Adapted destroyer. You will likely train your alt up, using just green and blue stuff you get from drops. You'll be reluctant to start the rep system all over again; and you may even decide not to doff -- at least, you won't start an expensive all-purple collection again. And all of that makes you quite normal.
So, here's my advice to PWE: stop thinking like James. No, I'm not interested in your 10 other games. No, I'm not gonna get 10 more accounts on each. And no, I won't spend 10x10 more in total. If you want to continue making money off of me, stop the BS that is Arc, and finally fix some bugs, instead of always trying to sell me new stuff. Give STO some love, and make me feel it. Then nobody needs Arc: we already didn't, and then you won't either.
not sure how you call this invasive it does not send no personal info to the government or to PWE, so what is so invasive?
My only thing about it so far that I don't like is it will not let me choose where I want to install the game I have a HD specifically for my games and Arc wants to put the game on C drive and that is not an option so if your looking for feedback maybe this is something PWE can look into.
I can name a few of them
1. Origins
2. steam
3. UPlay
do I dare say more
guess I am not normal I have 3 alt accounts besides my main account, those accounts are for helping my fleet nothing more so yes they are mostly in green and some blue items for equipment, My main account has 26 characters and all run the rep system, Doffs etc. I plan on two more characters by years end or the beginning of next year, that's not including what might come in a future expansion.
STO is my main MMO, but I do play NeverWinter, SWTOR <- although not as much now since it is so P2W
and Rift <- but not as much as I used too, but the point is if I get burnt out on STO i go to another play there for a few days or so and then come back, I don't take this hiatus for months at a time, just enough to give me the break I need, and I know a lot of other players in STO that do the same, now maybe we are the 1% you say that don't just play one MMO I don't know but I am guessing that the 99% that you said is no where near the truth and more do have atleast 2 or more mmo's they play.
Go into ARC settings and change the download destination. That was one of the things I checked when testing it - seeing what the options were.
Kinda wish ARC was an option for new players, actually, instead of being forced on them.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
when Arc first was announced I tried it and at the time they did not have that option so maybe they added it since, which is good I guess.
what I would like it to do is detect the game already so I could test it out more but have not been able to get it to do that yet if it will at all.
Hi bughunter357,
I believe you are conflating the word "invasive" with the concept of "data-mining."
Invasive:
1. characterized by or involving invasion; offensive: invasive war.
2. invading, or tending to invade; intrusive.
3. Medicine/Medical . requiring the entry of a needle, catheter, or other instrument into a part of the body, especially in a diagnostic procedure, as a biopsy.
4. relating to or denoting cancer at the stage at which it has spread from its site of origin to other tissues.
Data-mining:
1. the process of collecting, searching through, and analyzing a large amount of data in a database, as to discover patterns or relationships.
2. The technique of identifying patterns and relationships within large databases through the use of advanced statistical methods.
Thus when Arc (PWE/Cryptic) is accessing your computer for the purpose of determining which advertisements possess the greatest chance of attracting your attention that is data-mining. Is that invasive? Well, it is most certainly intrusive, but for it to become invasive, it would have to be done without an invitation from you as the owner of the computer in question. I have delivered no such invitation and, in fact I have quite clearly, I believe, put out the "NO SOLICITING" sign. The only invitation I have issued is for the game in question, Star Trek Online. I have not and will not extend an invitation to anything that I would characterize as being as useful to me as whiffy bilge water.
Please note, bughunter357, that I am not jumping on you. I am simply attempting to illustrate that invasive is one of many accurate words that may be used to describe Arc if it is not optional.
The following is a general posting and not directed specifically at bughunter357.
PWE has been absolutely silent on this issue.
Cryptic has entered the conversation a bit, but doesn't really tell us all that much.
We, on the other hand, can't seem to shut-up about it
Here is what I am seeing:
A. PWE/Cryptic wish to implement the Arc Platform.
B. Players/Customers voice their concerns and pose questions.
C. Cryptic (not PWE) responds with very little new information and avoids/is looking into specific answers to specific questions.
D. Players/Customers suggest the compromise of making the Arc Platform optional.
E. Now we wait to hear back on said compromise.
Now, when I put the issue into this context, I have more thoughts on the matter.
We are told that Arc will "help to enhance the PWE gaming experience," but it seems to be little more than a 1GB communication tool rather than something that improves actual gameplay. This is disingenuous at best.
If Arc truly were the greatly great thing we are told it is then it would have been made optional from the outset. Even in this day and age there is no better advertising that word of mouth. When the vast majority of players tell each other, "The game is so much better when you play it with Arc. What? No, it doesn't give me information I don't need about games I don't play. If anything it has helped to reduce lag, disconnects, and long download times. They've even designed it so it won't dig non game-related data out of your computer!" then there may be just cause to make Arc a permanent feature.
The fact that we're getting no direct answers to direct questions is not merely troubling, but also extremely annoying. Just tell us what the plan is and when it will be implemented.
Or if the existence of this thread has had any bearing on the matter and further discussions are taking place simply tell us that. It's not as though a trade secret or proprietary technology will be loosed upon the world as the concept of a gaming platform is hardly new.
Compromise. The players are willing to reach a compromise. Are we to believe that PWE/Cryptic is not?
Finally, I can't download Arc for the simple reason that assurances that it will not be TRIBBLE, co-opted, or otherwise used for nefarious purposes mean very little from an organization that can change its End User License Agreement at will. It's a security issue. In the worst case scenario it's a National Security issue as I illustrated in a prior post in this thread.
In conclusion, well, at least until my next post...
I have to say that PWEbranflakes has my sympathy. He is basically stuck in the middle on this. For all we know he has the same reaction to Arc as many of us do. He has the unenviable task of having to deal with our indignation while being required by his superiors
to continue to try to convince us that this awful plan, the Arc Platform, is a good idea. It's a textbook Kobayashi Maru.
So Mr. Felczer please understand that when I throw your words back at you I am not throwing them back at you. The thing is, I speak a multitude of languages. All of them are English. Two that I study quite often are "Marketing" and "Corporate." Neither of them is very convincing, I'm afraid, and thus I tend to get exuberant in their debunking. However the fact that I will not attack you on a personal level should not indicate that I will not make my position known.
I wish you and the rest of the Star Trek Online Team all the fortune you can handle.
I was not the first person to use the word "invasive" I was merely asking the question of how they thought it was, I understand your point, but the fact remains that Steam,Origins,Uplay etc all are setups that many games are played through and do not use or put spyware on the computer now many people think the opposite but from a player that uses all of these I have never had a issue with any of the above listed and in some cases i.e. Steam there security system work a whole lot better than say the account guard that is currently inline on STO in this case Arc might eventually use a similar setup to improve security so that accounts do not get TRIBBLE, now nothing is full proof as we all know and there will be incursions where someone will try to get into the system it has happen in the past and will happen again even steam it happens in nothing we can do but just try to stay one step ahead of the "hackers".
But since this is still in a testing phase I do think some people are go over board and hitting the panic button a little to soon saying they will quit the game if this gets implemented, PWEbranflakes is the PWE rep for the forum community so in a sense PWE is responding just they have not put out all the details of what they intend to do and they may not know what they intend to do because as I say it again Arc is still in early test phase, so I say to all that are worried about this is to sit back and relax to a deep breath and enjoy STO for now, once more info comes out then on what PWE plans to do with this then panic if you so choose, right now the one thing I see that is a major problem is that if you choose to uninstall the game or get a new computer and if your unlike me when it comes to reformatting or what ever and don't save the game files so you can just cut and paste them back on then you are forced to use Arc not sure that was the right move by PWE but we will see.