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How do you think, Vet vs Newb should be?
uhmari
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Please answer the following, Please be serious as i am data-mining from the pvp
population to correct future suggestions for revisions to the game. Your opinion
is important! so please take it seriously!
At what level, do you think new players should differ from veterens?
At what % Do you think the new players should be out dps'd,healed, or tanked by a vet? (like scores at the end of the game etc) Please provide figures. (100kvs 2.5m as example)
Do you think that limited knowledge of pvp should allow the player to be able to do pvp at all? Or do you think its required to read/study to do it?
population to correct future suggestions for revisions to the game. Your opinion
is important! so please take it seriously!
At what level, do you think new players should differ from veterens?
At what % Do you think the new players should be out dps'd,healed, or tanked by a vet? (like scores at the end of the game etc) Please provide figures. (100kvs 2.5m as example)
Do you think that limited knowledge of pvp should allow the player to be able to do pvp at all? Or do you think its required to read/study to do it?
[SIGPIC]http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=98704615000&type=sigpic&dateline=1372675812[/SIGPIC]
Post edited by uhmari on
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Comments
There is no number... its based on skill + experience.
Some people will simply never be top tier no matter how many hours they put in. Others are twitch freaks and pick it up in a matter of days.
I kept that one part of your quote because its true of anyone that wants to do well at pvp.
Top level pvpers do nothing but read patch notes and chats ect ect ect.
How do you get and stay good at something if you have no clue what is going on. Things always change no one can stop keeping up on stuff.
The only difference between veterans and new players should be experience and tactics.
All players need to have easy acces to best gear/sets/boffs/doffs etc
And yes new players should be able to pvp from start and have same ships/dps/heal numbers like veterans. So new pvp'rs need to understand that not gear make wins, but the skill/expirience.
I know from practicing, asking and researching the many build threads and help threads, I've learnt a lot and I'm still learning.
The main difference is the amount of effort and time spent researching etc.
Also, a lot of 'veteran' players have simply been doing it longer, so the rep grind was a shallower curve, many of us started before the reputation so were able to obtain the omega/MACO/Borg gear just by actually playing rather than grinding a stupid amount of resources.
That grind doesn't make it easy on a new player.
Like every game ever made though, it takes practice and time to perfect.
The new player will no longer be out played by a vet when they learn and become comfortable with the learning curve for PvP.
Seperate the two and the newb will never become the equal of the vet.
R.I.P
Lets say they were something the game had to search for.
Please explain what that/those mechanic(s) would
That is a game that takes months, if not years to perfect, newbs are normally easily noticeable as the flaming balls heading towards the ground.
No upgrades, no reputation, every plane has its strengths and weaknesses.
You can not seperate the two. The newb is the vet in a unrealized state.
The vet is the newb after experience has been gained.
If the learning curve is still too steep as a newb then join PvP bootcamp and move beyond newb into vetdom.
R.I.P
Polls are not allowed.
Exploiting game mechanics seems to be the biggest spread in success.
From my brief 3 days of experience, there is a lot to learn! Only just finding things out like Duty officers for instance.. For example I can upgrade my duty officers and gain XP. Thus I might level to 50 quickly. This means I may have a high lvl character, but my gear would be terrible and I still would have no other experience other than knowing how to upgrade duty officers! (Which I have yet to do!).
So I would say its all about experience and skill and has nothing to do with level.
actually, this is one of the friendliest communities i have seen, most people are very wiling to help if you ask. This guy just likes stirring up trouble.
I think fighting somebody better then urself is the only method of improvement. But perpahs a Tutorial Zone (part of a PvP Rep system) could help some players feel they are making progress?
I encourage a PvP reputation, as even if it offers no real rewards. Maybe it could offer unique costumes for ship or anything to entice players to stick with it.
Good to know! I am newly obsessed with STO and like what I have seen so far!
I completely agree with the idea of learning by defeat.
It's pretty much universal to anything and everything. You have to be challenged/tested, you overcome, you improve during the process and move on to the next challenge/test.
Otherwise, best case scenario - you may be able to maintain. The more likely scenario is to wither or atrophy. You're either getting better or worse, no matter how slightly...
R.I.P
Scores and endboard statistics mean nothing.
You can have 3 Mil dmg on the board by AoE'ing and/or using Transphasic builds etc and barely kill anything (Gimping dmg on the board, or do 750K/1M dmg and destroyed all enemies single handedly.
Whats more efficient, taking someone down with 60K on the board or with 200K?
So from that aspect its rather irrelevant.
Not being ignorant is a big step into the process
Shame I die so much with him lol.
Also, you need to stop trying to "improve" a game that you don't actually understand and don't actually have the authority to alter, anyway.
^This x1000.
He posted a video in another thread (which has since been locked/deleted) was was purportedly showing him getting one-shot'd. It's clear he has no idea how to actually play. During the 30 seconds or so that I saw, I saw him doing so much wrong that frankly, I'm surprised he even manages in PvE. He had 4 team abilities, but didn't know when to use them. He failed to use TT when he was being hit with incoming fire. Additionally, he full impulsed right into a group of enemies (over shooting them and not having any weapon power when he did slow down,) as well as having a static camera angle. Uhmari, this is one of the reasons why no one in the other thread could take your seriously-you don't know the game. How can you even think about improving it when you don't understand the mechanics?
He created these two threads in response to the deleted thread, because he believed that eeveryone who answered would agree with him.
right!
i used to be a great science player (rusty at the moment) and create all sorts of builds, but the one build i could never master was the power drain build. no matter what i did, i just couldnt get the hang of it.
and stick me in anything except some sort of sci ship or a gal-x and ill die like anyone else lol.
(note, the gal x is included because i die once and i can cloak and hide like a federation coward hehehe)
Do you even Science Bro?
I don't think I fully understand the question here. Does level refer to to actual level? (Lt Cmdr vs VA or lvl 31 v lvl 46? for ex) or to SKILL level? Or something else? So far, I'd say in ANY case a higher "level" player should/would be better. How much better is the real issue.
And that's really the problem with PvP. In game knowledge counts for squat. Learning everything to be learned in game is pretty much PvP 101, getting good at it REQUIRES outside reference. Testing with parsers, reading about what works and what doesn't and ofc the ever popular "secret" builds mechanics that give a distinct advantage. You call BS? play some low level PvP without all the spam, stacked passives, and broken equipment/doffs, and you'll see a much more LEVEL playing field where a moderately, well built ship (yes even a dinky sci), can take out 2-3 escorts or cruisers without much issue based solely on build and skill. By build I mean using standard equipment that works properly by skill I mean using flying and abilities to win, not 100k crits that you get from some glitched combination of DoFFs/Rep equipment/BoFF stacking. And don't tell me ALL low level PvPers are newbs. You can tell who is and who isn't. Lets face it, we most all have alts.
If you mean in general, there is no way to determine by a search unless it would be by their total /played time by all alts. For PvP, it could easily be a rating system (like chess uses) where beating a more skilled player(s) significantly increases your rating while beating a lower one barely improves it. (In fact in chess, if a 2200 rated player beats a 1500 rated, his score will actually go DOWN, but if the 1500 wins, his score might go up by 200!)
Again, that's not a solution to the problem, it's a work-a-round. Hoping to make friends who teach you secrets is not what Star Trek is about. You could know the whole game inside and out yet it means nothing if you aren't "taught" how to make it viable for PvP.
^that^ Granted, I don't blame people for doing it, it's just a fact.
Friendly as long as you are part of it. PvP is "player vs player", not "community members vs non-community members". Too much buddy system, not enough actual skill.
Lol, he wants to make it where you don't have to read forums non-stop to at least play semi-competitive PvP on some level. And/or allow non pros to compete without getting stomped by premades, thereby frustrating them to stay away. And LEAVE HIS BUILDS OUT OF THIS. It grows tiresome. Even if he's PvP'd only once, he can see the system is borked. Even if you "fix" his ship for him, he's likely to have the same opinion, as I do.
Spoken like a true god. New players have about 0 chance of ever catching up to the Vets. So it's rly, 1st come, 1st serve? And btw... he's not "improving" anything, he's (hopefully) "fixing" it.
Go ahead, nitpick over my statements and disagree, it won't change anything as to the general 99% of players opinions to PvP. Don't get me wrong, I love PvP, it's actually the only reason I play anymore. Only challenge left. But I also see things that are clearly making it fun for only a handful of people.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
Can you help me with my builds/tactics? Maybe/maybe not. Maybe I could help YOU. Doesn't matter, put me in a tricked out bug-ship and teach me how to get a 65-1 kill ratio and I'd still agree PvP is EXTREMELY imbalanced. Put me in a Miranda class that can't kill an advanced pet and it wouldn't matter either. This has NOTHING to do with how "good" anyone's "build" is. Attacking someones ability does not negate their point and maybe that's why he's ignoring you...?
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
By the difference of level i am talking about skill.
In general with your opening statements i agree, the trolls are only interested in keeping their Silly 1 shot Spam of
"lets kill the newbs, 1 shot them, its ok, because they are to stupid to know better".
Well, Like i told them, I will rise the issue in the community to such a point that it will get fixed (God willing).
This has started taking place, people are recognizing widely and openly there is problems with pvp As a developer of (other games) I can tell you coming in this game and looking at stuff, It needs lots of work.
There is minor problems with the way items are equipped, The stacking etc.
To me one of the best moves in this game is to make it so that modules dont stack anymore. That will fix a lot of problems, and balance out ship performance. Personally i'd like to see the whole lay out of items redone. I am working on a proposal for this.
But in general the problems from pvp come from the lack of control on a skill system.
What i am trying to understand is the communities view on what is acceptable, and whats not according to the standard (And i dont include the trolls opinions in my conclusions, because they are only interested in 1 thing, staying on top to epeen.
This thread was excellent proof to discredit their false claims that <5 second skills dont exist in the game.
I think alpha strike should play a major role int he game, but i dont think it should be on the level that you 1 shot someone. It's not a First person shooter, if you want to 1 shot people, go play a FPS game.
Imo, Death rates should last something like 60-180 seconds. maybe in extreme cases, 45s to 240 seconds.
This is why i am asking about one shots, and peoples opinions on what level the difference should be. So ican conclude on what stats on weapons revisions im doing.
Right? this is exactly my point.
And all of this is happening because the skill system allows Broken rates. To much spam in this game. Spam of Items (% Bonus's from them) Spam of skills, etc.
Nerf these, and you will vastly improve the system
Its not fair for new players to have to "do research" or "get feedback" in order to do pvp.
they should learn the mechanics while leveling. Example, they should learn that when an npc tractor beams them, that you use X skill to get out.
And all methods of leveling should include all types of CC, and even concepts of heavy alpha, or raw dps so they can fundamentally learn how to deal with it.
For starters, drop the technicolor act. It's incredibly annoying.
Secondly, Uhmari has a habit of making serious and repeated factual, conceptual and linguistic errors in nearly every point he tries to make. The people he's "ignoring" are those who challenge his completely unfounded assumptions, and point out just how incorrect his facts and reasoning are.
Case in point: two pages plus of people disagreeing vehemently with him, yet he magically appears the moment someone with the slightest inkling of concurrence appears.
Not true, Tapeworm Disagrees with me on EVERYTHING, and we talk reasonable, and are totally civilized to each other, Hell we have even had conversations in game.
And these disagreements have taken place over multiple threads, and yet not once were he "ignored" or "reported" or anything of the sort.
These special "privileges" are reserved for those who have "special needs" for attention.