"The Future of PvP In STO: Making PvP Accessible To All"
Each player will have a single button on their screen. It will be a large button...with flashing arrows pointing to it. The button label will read as:
Press Me At Any Time To Participate In PvP
Pressing the button will roll a d4 die (beautifully animated on their screen). The game will compare the rolls from both players, and the player with the higher number wins! Winning results in awesome titles to let all those see the player know how awesome they are at PvP. Winning three fights will give the player random OP gear that will allow them to be more awesome in PvE!
For 500 Zen, players will be able to purchase a d6.
For 1000 Zen, players can purchase a d8.
For 1500 Zen, players will be able to purchase a d10.
For 2000 Zen, players can purchase a d12.
For 2500 Zen, players will be able to purchase a d20.
For 5000 Zen, players can purchase the Re-Roll Trait - which rolls their particular die three times and keeps the highest number.
For 750 Zen, players will be able to upgrade their die to a Sparkly Die. It's prettier and therefore that much more awesome!
DDO has no PVP, but if you do not read a guide before you start, you can TRIBBLE your character at creation so badly you cannot get past level 8-12 ( Max is 25 and it it is really hard to level in that game takes about a week or two to get to that level) and it is very well liked because it requires actually knowing the game to do good.
IF they are casual and are only going in PVP once a month, they should probably expect to do bad. Granted i think they should make PVE more similar to PVP, and start making you know how to react to certain things (alpha strikes, getting controlled by a science ship) but that would not affect PVP, it would mean changing PVE. None of us are saying the game is perfectly balanced, but it but small tweaks here and there would do a much better job then the OP's suggestions (look at his other threads and you will see he does not understand game mechanics very well, and he know little about PVP and refuses to learn)
And how many players beyond lvl 12 does DDO have? Also what is the target audience? You can not really play dnd without reading, and books. The targeted audience is already interested in tweaking their char I would say.
Also most games simply do not offer such options as STO. You can run a 7 turret rainbow escort if you like. There is simply so much choice and no info, Knowing dnd probably helps in DDO, knowing star trek might even hinder you in STO if you try to build everything canon.
Making the game easier by offering info would help many and harm none. Everyone would profit from more educated gamers. No one would be harmed. No game mechanics would be touched.
Making the game easier by offering info would help many and harm none. Everyone would profit from more educated gamers. No one would be harmed. No game mechanics would be touched.
If they are lazy, then offering them more info does not help them in the least.
No doubt everybody would profit from more educated gamers...but if the argument is that they are lazy and not going to put the least bit of effort into it, then providing more information for them would be a complete waste of time.
That being said, mind you, for those that do put effort into it...Cryptic being less cryptic on certain things would be great. If the information that is known could be better organized, that would be great as well. Etc, etc, etc...
...but unfortunately, having that information available more readily to those that put any sort of effort into the game will only put those that do not at that much more of a disadvantage.
And how many players beyond lvl 12 does DDO have? Also what is the target audience? You can not really play dnd without reading, and books. The targeted audience is already interested in tweaking their char I would say.
Also most games simply do not offer such options as STO. You can run a 7 turret rainbow escort if you like. There is simply so much choice and no info, Knowing dnd probably helps in DDO, knowing star trek might even hinder you in STO if you try to build everything canon.
Making the game easier by offering info would help many and harm none. Everyone would profit from more educated gamers. No one would be harmed. No game mechanics would be touched.
A lot of people have multiple level 20's, and i do agree that maybe they should put things in PVE that help players get ready for PVP, but the mechanics should only be tweaked for balance, the OP wants to drastically change the game in every way. If you have seen his other threads you would know he has delusions of grandeur of being "a "hero" to new players fighting against the "tyranny" of long-time players.
If they are lazy, then offering them more info does not help them in the least.
Oh but it does. When something is ig you will likely click it. But if you have to open your browser...
I mean I am not really suggesting that much. But there is really a huge step between an macro generator where you can click and a console command. And an ig video that explains stuff, watching it gives an accolade. Yeah i could see people watch that and learn something. Many more that would be willing to read a guide.
Second, changing a couple of things in PvP. The two things changed first would be the queues.
A) Remove FvF, FvK, & KvK queues. Simplify as RvB queues. Introduce two versions of the RvB queues - Regular and Skirmish. Skirmish would have restrictions on certain gear - Regular would not have said restrictions.
Third, introduce player tiers similar to the PvE difficulty ratings. Players would be Casual, Normal, Advanced, and Elite. Casual, Normal, and Advanced players could only participate in Skirmish queues. Elite players would have access to Regular queues.
Fourth, introduce a form of handicapping dependent upon comparing player tiers. For example:
Casual vs. Casual - normal damage done/received
Casual vs. Normal - increased damage done/reduced damage received
Casual vs. Advanced - more increased damage done/more reduced damage received
Casual vs. Elite - even more increased damage done/even more reduced damage received
Same tier - normal damage done/received
Higher tier - increased damage done
Lower tier - reduced damage done
You get the gist, eh?
Fifth, adjust the rewards based on a player's tier. Casual receives the lowest and Elite receives the highest. Elite tiered players participating in Skirmish queues will receive lower rewards than if they were competing in Regular queues.
Sixth, introduce the means to unlock the various tiers. Everybody starts at Casual. Normal and Advanced can be unlocked through PvE as well as PvP. Elite can only be unlocked through PvP.
-via PvE:
Normal can be unlocked by successfully completing a series of individual Advanced PvE encounters (akin to a project).
Advanced can be unlocked by successfully completing a series of individual Elite PvE encounters (again, akin to a project - does not require Normal unlocked).
-via PvP:
Normal can be unlocked by completing a series of PvP projects.
Advanced can be unlocked by completing a series of PvP projects (requires Normal unlocked).
Elite can be unlocked by completing a series of PvP projects (requires Advanced unlocked).
Note: Fastest route would be Elite PvE to unlock Advanced PvP and then unlock Elite PvP.
Seventh, implement a mechanic that makes the PvP tiers pseudo account based to account for alts. Alts will start at one tier lower than the higher tiered character on the account, but they will receive a heavy discount/boost to completing the projects necessary for the next tier.
There's probably more, but this was just a random thought that popped into my head and I need to go smoke...
Oh but it does. When something is ig you will likely click it. But if you have to open your browser...
I mean I am not really suggesting that much. But there is really a huge step between an macro generator where you can click and a console command. And an ig video that explains stuff, watching it gives an accolade. Yeah i could see people watch that and learn something. Many more that would be willing to read a guide.
I have to admit to a certain bias here, which could be clouding some of my replies on the matter.
I despise video tutorials and I dislike audio tutorials.
I dislike audio tutorials because when it comes to VARK, auditory is at the bottom of the list of those that I am most receptive and most retentive. It doesn't help audio that I could finish reading a transcript of whatever was about to be said not longer after it was started to be said.
I despise video tutorials because of the combination of the issues with audio mentioned above and just how much slower they are. They're painfully slow. I tune out. They're a waste.
It's one of the reasons that I'll usually ask (hope) there is a transcript for any STO related podcast.
Give me a textbook full of charts and words that should make my eyes bleed, and I'll consume it like a can of Pringles. Give me a video tutorial and if you ask me about it after I just finished watching it, you'll likely get a "huh" as my response.
So yeah, I get that is not the norm...people TLDR posts on forums with more than 5 words in them. I get that. Still, I see things the way I see them and will usually end up dismissing such with dismal disappointment - so yeah, things like that can totally slip my mind.
Honestly tutorials would not help most people do not bother with them. They skip them then sit in a social hub spamming questions that were covered in the tutorials. I have seen this in every MMO I have ever played. You can't fix lazy and stupid. It's harsh but people who have been around MMO's a while know what I am talking about heh.
I have to admit to a certain bias here, which could be clouding some of my replies on the matter.
I despise video tutorials and I dislike audio tutorials.
I dislike audio tutorials because when it comes to VARK, auditory is at the bottom of the list of those that I am most receptive and most retentive. It doesn't help audio that I could finish reading a transcript of whatever was about to be said not longer after it was started to be said.
I despise video tutorials because of the combination of the issues with audio mentioned above and just how much slower they are. They're painfully slow. I tune out. They're a waste.
It's one of the reasons that I'll usually ask (hope) there is a transcript for any STO related podcast.
Give me a textbook full of charts and words that should make my eyes bleed, and I'll consume it like a can of Pringles. Give me a video tutorial and if you ask me about it after I just finished watching it, you'll likely get a "huh" as my response.
So yeah, I get that is not the norm...people TLDR posts on forums with more than 5 words in them. I get that. Still, I see things the way I see them and will usually end up dismissing such with dismal disappointment - so yeah, things like that can totally slip my mind.
I do understand your point. I suppose most older gamers do. But what I have seen/learned is that reading does not work today. People might watch stuff but only very few will read. I do remember the days when a quest told me got south. When I probably had to google said quest if I did not find it on my own. these days are gone. People like their comfort.
I do like STO because I still have a lot of options. I have support, I have different builds/loadouts. That comes with a price. A casual gamer will fail hard, so just help them a little, give them info, make it easier for someone who just wants to log on once in while and have fun. That would be my opinion.
Also you might want to take a look at camelot unchained. It will be a while till they have a beta but I think you might like it.
Maybe I've been online longer that some gamers have been (been online over 30 years, on the internet over 20)...maybe I've played video games since before some gamers were conceived (35 some years, can't imagine somebody used to playing Madden playing an old Coleco or Tiger Electronics football game - lol)...
...but even back in the day, there were those that were better classroom/lecture learners and those that were better book learners.
Yes, I've seen the folks say that they don't have the time to read something, so they'd rather watch it or listen to it - they say they're too ADD/ADHD to read. But like I said, I'm too ADD/ADHD not to read - I just don't have the time nor the patience to watch or listen to something if I can read it.
However, most of what I just said is neither here nor there...
Yep, going to take that word out of context and say:
It would not be a bad thing (would be hard not say it was a good thing), were Cryptic to provide options to players about how they want to learn things - written tutorials, audio tutorials, and video tutorials.
Given their apparent desire to reach as broad a customerbase as possible, perhaps they could consider bringing on a learning consultant - get the ball started, do some training, help with business planning and goals...it would remove the excuse of Cryptic not providing information in a manner in which a particular player could consume it (offering it both in and out of the game, to nix that in the bud too).
Maybe I've been online longer that some gamers have been (been online over 30 years, on the internet over 20)...maybe I've played video games since before some gamers were conceived (35 some years, can't imagine somebody used to playing Madden playing an old Coleco or Tiger Electronics football game - lol)...
...but even back in the day, there were those that were better classroom/lecture learners and those that were better book learners.
Yes, I've seen the folks say that they don't have the time to read something, so they'd rather watch it or listen to it - they say they're too ADD/ADHD to read. But like I said, I'm too ADD/ADHD not to read - I just don't have the time nor the patience to watch or listen to something if I can read it.
However, most of what I just said is neither here nor there...
Yep, going to take that word out of context and say:
It would not be a bad thing (would be hard not say it was a good thing), were Cryptic to provide options to players about how they want to learn things - written tutorials, audio tutorials, and video tutorials.
Given their apparent desire to reach as broad a customerbase as possible, perhaps they could consider bringing on a learning consultant - get the ball started, do some training, help with business planning and goals...it would remove the excuse of Cryptic not providing information in a manner in which a particular player could consume it (offering it both in and out of the game, to nix that in the bud too).
Wow you got me beat, I get made fun of for being old because I talked about playing Madden and Super Mario on NES as a kid lol. Guess I'm to ADD not to read either, can't ever listen to those STO podcasts, I wish there were transcripts for everything.
Also like your idea about getting rid of FvK and FvF, no point in it anymore with Romulans on both sides anyway. Skirmish and regular mode souunds good too. I am worried about having pvp tiers with handicaps though, it would be exploited with people purposley staying at low tiers either by having themselves killed a lot in private matches, or making new characters at low tiers as needed.
I am worried about having pvp tiers with handicaps though, it would be exploited with people purposley staying at low tiers either by having themselves killed a lot in private matches, or making new characters at low tiers as needed.
Yep, some folks would never move beyond a certain tier so as to enjoy stomping their lesser skilled fellows - but hopefully the reward difference I mentioned would offer folks the incentive to move up as soon as they are ready/comfortable.
I meant no offense. Everyone who played MMOs over 10 years ago would be an older gamer in my book. And I am one of those.
Just wanted to point out that games have changed. Single and multiplayer alike. You get much more help these days, videos instead of text and difficulty is a lot lower. Gaming is just more mainstream.
Yep, some folks would never move beyond a certain tier so as to enjoy stomping their lesser skilled fellows - but hopefully the reward difference I mentioned would offer folks the incentive to move up as soon as they are ready/comfortable.
this is why you set the game to bump their Teir to their KDA Rate.
If they exceed a specific amount, they go up.
if they drop, they go down. this way they can only grief for a very short time.
KDA, KDR, KLR, etc, etc, etc...are generally poor systems. Given the massive imbalance in STO, it would be even worse here than in most games.
KDA is not very good in the first place as if you are in a bad group then you will die a lot more often than normal, where as in a very good group you will kill often then you would normally do so. In a team game like this that is very fast paced, it would mean basically nothing. Also, i have played games that are in much much worse shape, at least this has diversity, a good community, and so many ships to choose from it is not incredibly imbalanced.
As is said, WL/KDA systems have never been right, The best thing to do is not focus on the epeen, but the balance.
You can create personal profiles with the epeen stats to show off, but when it comes
to que, it should be set up on how much killing and death you do as a player.
In teaching there is a few types of learning systems.
recently Universities have began to adapt "team based learning"
its a system, where all the players are important, and are graded by their performance.
If we set up a system like this, where players are judged by person rating (to enter X ques) and group rating we can judge the players real level.
We can give them a sort of "collective score".
for example, if in solo play (KDA) he does 10 score, and team player (Healing,CC)
he does poorly, then we give him a 3, we cause the the 3 and 10 to factor an effective
score of X. so if the player wants to improve his "Ladder level" he improves the scores.
You set KDA rate, to decide if he is to experience for new players or not.
and you set Team play to decide if he can progress in to team based play (instead of solo 5v5 ques).
This way, when someone gets in real pvp, and competition, he is skilled in both solo, and team play, and cant be carried because its based on his performance and interaction as a player, and as a team. this will encourage the tac ships to do more then kill spam.
The issue's not about epeens...it's about accuracy and value.
BattleClinic for EVE is a good example of a bad example. Sure, I haven't played EVE in almost three years - but every time I go there to look at my profile for whenever these discussions come up, I still get a chuckle at how badly the numbers lie. They make me look better than I actually was...
That's the issue with such systems. They can make some folks appear better than they are and make others appear worse than they are.
They usually fail to take so much into account or they tend to give credit for the most miniscule action taken on a target...etc, etc, etc.
Put a strong emphasis on people not getting carried (this means, Personal and team rating)
Healers.
Buffers.
Debuffers.
Control.
Area denial.
Bait positioning.
Can think of quite a few things, the person will usually be doing a few of them - they're damage is going to be lower as they're not focused on damage.
My KLR in EVE was 3.6:1...my Damage KLR was 1:3.1 on the other hand. 3.6 times as many kills as losses, but 3.1 times as much damage taken as dealt. My ISK KLR was around 23:1 - 23 times as much ISK loss created as taken...but if I remember correctly, the largest percentage of killmails I was on had at least 10 people. Around a third of my deaths had a single player involved - none of my kills were just me.
Carried?
Here in STO...
I've got a Sci Hegh'ta w/ 4x Sci BOFFs.
I've got dedicated Snooper/Tackler Sci.
I've got an area control/decloaking Sci.
I've got two Eng healers.
I've got a shield stripping Eng.
I've got a frustration generating Eng in a Chel...wheeee!
I've got a bait Tac in a carrier.
I've got an actual Tac in an Escort...that I rarely fly...that's interested in going wheeee in a Risian.
My deaths are pretty rare these days, but so are any kills where it was just me. But then again, that's not my playstyle. Flying ECM boats and ECM on non-ECM boats in EVE...killing wasn't my thing. Frustrating was. My main for over six years in WoW...a Warlock (though, I built all of my toons to frustrate/annoy). Main over in RIFT is a Mage...that was built to annoy. Back in Shadowbane - would troll folks with Rogue Assassins and Mage Assassins (even named my Reman Sci after my old SB main, Willard the Rat).
I'm not sure I've run a "kill" build/toon since before the Tram/Fel split in UO. No, wait - in AO I was part of an all Fixer merc group that would assassinate support folks.
There are three roles I generally play:
1) Facilitate (making it easier for folks on my side to kill folks on the other side)
2) Hinder (making it harder for folks on the other side to kill folks on my side)
3) Bait/Tank*
*There's no "Tank" in PvP! This is correct if there is a target caller on the opposing team. However, c'mon - just like a silly mob over in PvEland...your average group in PUGland (experienced in multiple games over the years) will focus on the hardest target to kill while ignoring anybody healing that target and ignoring the people that are actually going to kill them. It's kind of twisted...ahem.
There are some pretty awesome killjocks out there - they've got their decloak alphas down to the point where unless you've already thought 3-5s ahead when it starts, you're dead. You can't just react - you've got to react ahead - or you're dead. There are folks that are great at watching buffs to see plan for when a gap will appear or where they can create one to unload. You can't be predictable - or you're dead. There are folks that have found awesome synergy in tandems...what can be done with just a Tac and a Sci. Run.
That's just not my style. I like decloaking behind somebody, saying BOO!, jamming them and flying off. I like killing all the enemy pets. I like pushing healers. It's been fun pushing Scims trying to Thal the last couple of days. I like flying into and bouncing off folks. I like doing a lot of odd and goofball things. I don't remember a single post from me claiming to be sane. :cool:
You cant set it up by just individual ratings, or you will cause people to epeen, and not actually be playing to do stuff as a team player.
this is a good way to encourage good behavior in the game, if the
players are required to be a team player, they will do that, because
they want to advance, and naturally most skilled players do this already.
there no skill in just killing people, but skill comes through application of many
things, especially Micro-management.
so if we set up the latter to record, and grade also by team play
you will have to be a team player to get to the top of the ladder
and that stops things like
leaving games (serious penalty hit)
not helping others (small penalty hit)
Poor scoring on helping team members (very minor penalty hit)
Then you will need to create required teams. You will have to define teams. You will have to define the roles within the team.
You'll be faced with issues of trying to score whether a person had a heal off of CD that they did not use on a teammate that could have used the heal before being destroyed. The same would go with buffs, cleansing debuffs, etc, etc, etc.
There are countless things that a Premade team will do that a PUG "not-really-a-team, just-on-the-same-side" do not do.
You will need to provide all sorts of training for those people to let them know all the things that they should be doing that they are not doing. You'll have to provide that in multiple formats as previously discussed.
You'll also need specific rules/mechanics for the different kinds of goals involved in the particular PvP instance. The goals in a C&H are not the same as an Arena. Should any other game types be added down the road, additional mechanics for scoring would need to be added.
Cryptic's been looking at it for over three years - it's complex, time consuming, and costly. They can't risk the build it and they will come on something like this. It's bad business...
Comments
Each player will have a single button on their screen. It will be a large button...with flashing arrows pointing to it. The button label will read as:
Press Me At Any Time To Participate In PvP
Pressing the button will roll a d4 die (beautifully animated on their screen). The game will compare the rolls from both players, and the player with the higher number wins! Winning results in awesome titles to let all those see the player know how awesome they are at PvP. Winning three fights will give the player random OP gear that will allow them to be more awesome in PvE!
For 500 Zen, players will be able to purchase a d6.
For 1000 Zen, players can purchase a d8.
For 1500 Zen, players will be able to purchase a d10.
For 2000 Zen, players can purchase a d12.
For 2500 Zen, players will be able to purchase a d20.
For 5000 Zen, players can purchase the Re-Roll Trait - which rolls their particular die three times and keeps the highest number.
For 750 Zen, players will be able to upgrade their die to a Sparkly Die. It's prettier and therefore that much more awesome!
And how many players beyond lvl 12 does DDO have? Also what is the target audience? You can not really play dnd without reading, and books. The targeted audience is already interested in tweaking their char I would say.
Also most games simply do not offer such options as STO. You can run a 7 turret rainbow escort if you like. There is simply so much choice and no info, Knowing dnd probably helps in DDO, knowing star trek might even hinder you in STO if you try to build everything canon.
Making the game easier by offering info would help many and harm none. Everyone would profit from more educated gamers. No one would be harmed. No game mechanics would be touched.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
If they are lazy, then offering them more info does not help them in the least.
No doubt everybody would profit from more educated gamers...but if the argument is that they are lazy and not going to put the least bit of effort into it, then providing more information for them would be a complete waste of time.
That being said, mind you, for those that do put effort into it...Cryptic being less cryptic on certain things would be great. If the information that is known could be better organized, that would be great as well. Etc, etc, etc...
...but unfortunately, having that information available more readily to those that put any sort of effort into the game will only put those that do not at that much more of a disadvantage.
A lot of people have multiple level 20's, and i do agree that maybe they should put things in PVE that help players get ready for PVP, but the mechanics should only be tweaked for balance, the OP wants to drastically change the game in every way. If you have seen his other threads you would know he has delusions of grandeur of being "a "hero" to new players fighting against the "tyranny" of long-time players.
.....can't seem to put my finger on it....OH YEAH.....this guy again.......
Thank you very much!
Oh but it does. When something is ig you will likely click it. But if you have to open your browser...
I mean I am not really suggesting that much. But there is really a huge step between an macro generator where you can click and a console command. And an ig video that explains stuff, watching it gives an accolade. Yeah i could see people watch that and learn something. Many more that would be willing to read a guide.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
First, addressing something in PvE. The item in PvE to be addressed would be the difficulty levels.
Currently:
Normal
Advanced
Elite
Proposed:
Casual (formerly Normal)
Normal (formerly Advanced)
Advanced (formerly Elite)
Elite
Second, changing a couple of things in PvP. The two things changed first would be the queues.
A) Remove FvF, FvK, & KvK queues. Simplify as RvB queues.
Third, introduce player tiers similar to the PvE difficulty ratings. Players would be Casual, Normal, Advanced, and Elite. Casual, Normal, and Advanced players could only participate in Skirmish queues. Elite players would have access to Regular queues.
Fourth, introduce a form of handicapping dependent upon comparing player tiers. For example:
Casual vs. Casual - normal damage done/received
Casual vs. Normal - increased damage done/reduced damage received
Casual vs. Advanced - more increased damage done/more reduced damage received
Casual vs. Elite - even more increased damage done/even more reduced damage received
Same tier - normal damage done/received
Higher tier - increased damage done
Lower tier - reduced damage done
You get the gist, eh?
Fifth, adjust the rewards based on a player's tier. Casual receives the lowest and Elite receives the highest. Elite tiered players participating in Skirmish queues will receive lower rewards than if they were competing in Regular queues.
Sixth, introduce the means to unlock the various tiers. Everybody starts at Casual. Normal and Advanced can be unlocked through PvE as well as PvP. Elite can only be unlocked through PvP.
-via PvE:
Normal can be unlocked by successfully completing a series of individual Advanced PvE encounters (akin to a project).
Advanced can be unlocked by successfully completing a series of individual Elite PvE encounters (again, akin to a project - does not require Normal unlocked).
-via PvP:
Normal can be unlocked by completing a series of PvP projects.
Advanced can be unlocked by completing a series of PvP projects (requires Normal unlocked).
Elite can be unlocked by completing a series of PvP projects (requires Advanced unlocked).
Note: Fastest route would be Elite PvE to unlock Advanced PvP and then unlock Elite PvP.
Seventh, implement a mechanic that makes the PvP tiers pseudo account based to account for alts. Alts will start at one tier lower than the higher tiered character on the account, but they will receive a heavy discount/boost to completing the projects necessary for the next tier.
There's probably more, but this was just a random thought that popped into my head and I need to go smoke...
I have to admit to a certain bias here, which could be clouding some of my replies on the matter.
I despise video tutorials and I dislike audio tutorials.
I dislike audio tutorials because when it comes to VARK, auditory is at the bottom of the list of those that I am most receptive and most retentive. It doesn't help audio that I could finish reading a transcript of whatever was about to be said not longer after it was started to be said.
I despise video tutorials because of the combination of the issues with audio mentioned above and just how much slower they are. They're painfully slow. I tune out. They're a waste.
It's one of the reasons that I'll usually ask (hope) there is a transcript for any STO related podcast.
Give me a textbook full of charts and words that should make my eyes bleed, and I'll consume it like a can of Pringles. Give me a video tutorial and if you ask me about it after I just finished watching it, you'll likely get a "huh" as my response.
So yeah, I get that is not the norm...people TLDR posts on forums with more than 5 words in them. I get that. Still, I see things the way I see them and will usually end up dismissing such with dismal disappointment - so yeah, things like that can totally slip my mind.
I do understand your point. I suppose most older gamers do. But what I have seen/learned is that reading does not work today. People might watch stuff but only very few will read. I do remember the days when a quest told me got south. When I probably had to google said quest if I did not find it on my own. these days are gone. People like their comfort.
I do like STO because I still have a lot of options. I have support, I have different builds/loadouts. That comes with a price. A casual gamer will fail hard, so just help them a little, give them info, make it easier for someone who just wants to log on once in while and have fun. That would be my opinion.
Also you might want to take a look at camelot unchained. It will be a while till they have a beta but I think you might like it.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Harsh, harsh, harsh...lol.
Maybe I've been online longer that some gamers have been (been online over 30 years, on the internet over 20)...maybe I've played video games since before some gamers were conceived (35 some years, can't imagine somebody used to playing Madden playing an old Coleco or Tiger Electronics football game - lol)...
...but even back in the day, there were those that were better classroom/lecture learners and those that were better book learners.
Yes, I've seen the folks say that they don't have the time to read something, so they'd rather watch it or listen to it - they say they're too ADD/ADHD to read. But like I said, I'm too ADD/ADHD not to read - I just don't have the time nor the patience to watch or listen to something if I can read it.
However, most of what I just said is neither here nor there...
Yep, going to take that word out of context and say:
It would not be a bad thing (would be hard not say it was a good thing), were Cryptic to provide options to players about how they want to learn things - written tutorials, audio tutorials, and video tutorials.
Given their apparent desire to reach as broad a customerbase as possible, perhaps they could consider bringing on a learning consultant - get the ball started, do some training, help with business planning and goals...it would remove the excuse of Cryptic not providing information in a manner in which a particular player could consume it (offering it both in and out of the game, to nix that in the bud too).
Wow you got me beat, I get made fun of for being old because I talked about playing Madden and Super Mario on NES as a kid lol. Guess I'm to ADD not to read either, can't ever listen to those STO podcasts, I wish there were transcripts for everything.
Also like your idea about getting rid of FvK and FvF, no point in it anymore with Romulans on both sides anyway. Skirmish and regular mode souunds good too. I am worried about having pvp tiers with handicaps though, it would be exploited with people purposley staying at low tiers either by having themselves killed a lot in private matches, or making new characters at low tiers as needed.
Yep, some folks would never move beyond a certain tier so as to enjoy stomping their lesser skilled fellows - but hopefully the reward difference I mentioned would offer folks the incentive to move up as soon as they are ready/comfortable.
I meant no offense. Everyone who played MMOs over 10 years ago would be an older gamer in my book. And I am one of those.
Just wanted to point out that games have changed. Single and multiplayer alike. You get much more help these days, videos instead of text and difficulty is a lot lower. Gaming is just more mainstream.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
this is why you set the game to bump their Teir to their KDA Rate.
If they exceed a specific amount, they go up.
if they drop, they go down. this way they can only grief for a very short time.
KDA, KDR, KLR, etc, etc, etc...are generally poor systems. Given the massive imbalance in STO, it would be even worse here than in most games.
KDA is not very good in the first place as if you are in a bad group then you will die a lot more often than normal, where as in a very good group you will kill often then you would normally do so. In a team game like this that is very fast paced, it would mean basically nothing. Also, i have played games that are in much much worse shape, at least this has diversity, a good community, and so many ships to choose from it is not incredibly imbalanced.
You can create personal profiles with the epeen stats to show off, but when it comes
to que, it should be set up on how much killing and death you do as a player.
In teaching there is a few types of learning systems.
recently Universities have began to adapt "team based learning"
its a system, where all the players are important, and are graded by their performance.
If we set up a system like this, where players are judged by person rating (to enter X ques) and group rating we can judge the players real level.
We can give them a sort of "collective score".
for example, if in solo play (KDA) he does 10 score, and team player (Healing,CC)
he does poorly, then we give him a 3, we cause the the 3 and 10 to factor an effective
score of X. so if the player wants to improve his "Ladder level" he improves the scores.
You set KDA rate, to decide if he is to experience for new players or not.
and you set Team play to decide if he can progress in to team based play (instead of solo 5v5 ques).
This way, when someone gets in real pvp, and competition, he is skilled in both solo, and team play, and cant be carried because its based on his performance and interaction as a player, and as a team. this will encourage the tac ships to do more then kill spam.
BattleClinic for EVE is a good example of a bad example. Sure, I haven't played EVE in almost three years - but every time I go there to look at my profile for whenever these discussions come up, I still get a chuckle at how badly the numbers lie. They make me look better than I actually was...
That's the issue with such systems. They can make some folks appear better than they are and make others appear worse than they are.
They usually fail to take so much into account or they tend to give credit for the most miniscule action taken on a target...etc, etc, etc.
I am for a ladder system in STO, but how it should happen, well thats tricky
We need to
- Put a strong emphasis on people not getting carried (this means, Personal and team rating)
- make the system have a no-newb stomp feature.
- Make the system have some sort of design to distringish people with higher marks then others
How long have you PvP'd in STO? A lot of your ideas seem fine, but they have been brought up ad nauseum over the past years.
Healers.
Buffers.
Debuffers.
Control.
Area denial.
Bait positioning.
Can think of quite a few things, the person will usually be doing a few of them - they're damage is going to be lower as they're not focused on damage.
My KLR in EVE was 3.6:1...my Damage KLR was 1:3.1 on the other hand. 3.6 times as many kills as losses, but 3.1 times as much damage taken as dealt. My ISK KLR was around 23:1 - 23 times as much ISK loss created as taken...but if I remember correctly, the largest percentage of killmails I was on had at least 10 people. Around a third of my deaths had a single player involved - none of my kills were just me.
Carried?
Here in STO...
I've got a Sci Hegh'ta w/ 4x Sci BOFFs.
I've got dedicated Snooper/Tackler Sci.
I've got an area control/decloaking Sci.
I've got two Eng healers.
I've got a shield stripping Eng.
I've got a frustration generating Eng in a Chel...wheeee!
I've got a bait Tac in a carrier.
I've got an actual Tac in an Escort...that I rarely fly...that's interested in going wheeee in a Risian.
My deaths are pretty rare these days, but so are any kills where it was just me. But then again, that's not my playstyle. Flying ECM boats and ECM on non-ECM boats in EVE...killing wasn't my thing. Frustrating was. My main for over six years in WoW...a Warlock (though, I built all of my toons to frustrate/annoy). Main over in RIFT is a Mage...that was built to annoy. Back in Shadowbane - would troll folks with Rogue Assassins and Mage Assassins (even named my Reman Sci after my old SB main, Willard the Rat).
I'm not sure I've run a "kill" build/toon since before the Tram/Fel split in UO. No, wait - in AO I was part of an all Fixer merc group that would assassinate support folks.
There are three roles I generally play:
1) Facilitate (making it easier for folks on my side to kill folks on the other side)
2) Hinder (making it harder for folks on the other side to kill folks on my side)
3) Bait/Tank*
*There's no "Tank" in PvP! This is correct if there is a target caller on the opposing team. However, c'mon - just like a silly mob over in PvEland...your average group in PUGland (experienced in multiple games over the years) will focus on the hardest target to kill while ignoring anybody healing that target and ignoring the people that are actually going to kill them. It's kind of twisted...ahem.
There are some pretty awesome killjocks out there - they've got their decloak alphas down to the point where unless you've already thought 3-5s ahead when it starts, you're dead. You can't just react - you've got to react ahead - or you're dead. There are folks that are great at watching buffs to see plan for when a gap will appear or where they can create one to unload. You can't be predictable - or you're dead. There are folks that have found awesome synergy in tandems...what can be done with just a Tac and a Sci. Run.
That's just not my style. I like decloaking behind somebody, saying BOO!, jamming them and flying off. I like killing all the enemy pets. I like pushing healers. It's been fun pushing Scims trying to Thal the last couple of days. I like flying into and bouncing off folks. I like doing a lot of odd and goofball things. I don't remember a single post from me claiming to be sane. :cool:
this is a good way to encourage good behavior in the game, if the
players are required to be a team player, they will do that, because
they want to advance, and naturally most skilled players do this already.
there no skill in just killing people, but skill comes through application of many
things, especially Micro-management.
so if we set up the latter to record, and grade also by team play
you will have to be a team player to get to the top of the ladder
and that stops things like
leaving games (serious penalty hit)
not helping others (small penalty hit)
Poor scoring on helping team members (very minor penalty hit)
Then you will need to create required teams. You will have to define teams. You will have to define the roles within the team.
You'll be faced with issues of trying to score whether a person had a heal off of CD that they did not use on a teammate that could have used the heal before being destroyed. The same would go with buffs, cleansing debuffs, etc, etc, etc.
There are countless things that a Premade team will do that a PUG "not-really-a-team, just-on-the-same-side" do not do.
You will need to provide all sorts of training for those people to let them know all the things that they should be doing that they are not doing. You'll have to provide that in multiple formats as previously discussed.
You'll also need specific rules/mechanics for the different kinds of goals involved in the particular PvP instance. The goals in a C&H are not the same as an Arena. Should any other game types be added down the road, additional mechanics for scoring would need to be added.
Cryptic's been looking at it for over three years - it's complex, time consuming, and costly. They can't risk the build it and they will come on something like this. It's bad business...
*steps back and listens*
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah