The best solution is to remove the queue system entirely. This is the only sure fire way of stopping griefer's and afker's.
We can then go back to how we did it in the old days and find a team to do the events....
This thread is beating a dead horse... just saying... :P
Anyway, I do go afk during group missions, but ONLY if it's unavoidable - so yeah, more often than not, I manage to go through the mission without going afk.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
The best solution is to remove the queue system entirely. This is the only sure fire way of stopping griefer's and afker's.
We can then go back to how we did it in the old days and find a team to do the events....
Well, it is optional; you can do that NOW.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I have a simple question. Is it against the ToS or Rules to AFK? The reason I ask, is because I am not aware of rule regarding AFK players. I don't afk and make a point to make sure I can finish a mission before I start.
I keep hearing about an uproar and people encouraging others to report afkers but if they are not breaking any rules, reporting them is futile.
Reporting them is not only futile but could be considered as harassment according to the TOS.
The only sure-fire, 100% way to insure that they won't have to group with any of these lesser human beings is for the individual to control just who it is that they group with. It's simple and easy to do. It doesn't take any coding to force anyone else to get along with them. All it takes is for them to accept responsibility for their own actions and enjoyment of the game.
Reporting them is not only futile but could be considered as harassment according to the TOS.
I'm not aware of anybody having been warned or actioned for harassment for merely reporting AFKers. As long as they weren't using "report spam" to do so, or using some automated tool to spam reports. Stay away from anything with "spam" in it and you'll be fine.
Note that my awareness extends only as far as any other player's, of course; if it didn't happen in the forums, I didn't see it.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
I'm not aware of anybody having been warned or actioned for harassment for merely reporting AFKers. As long as they weren't using "report spam" to do so, or using some automated tool to spam reports. Stay away from anything with "spam" in it and you'll be fine.
Note that my awareness extends only as far as any other player's, of course; if it didn't happen in the forums, I didn't see it.
I tend to think that Cryptic just drops the AFKer reports into the bit-box while thinking "these kids need to learn to play better together".
I dont't think Azura lasts but 8 or so and 15 minutes would be on stage 2 of Vault. By then, you have only saved 7/10 and lost points. These are fairly short but intense instances. By the time you can quit, it's over or you have more time in than you have left to the end.
By completing the mission anyways, you are simply feeding them to begin with. When I have a problem with afkers, I simply break off all further combat and let the time progress to the needed 15mins. and leave. If they decide they want to finally contribute than I stick around and help finish, but in no ways am I going to help contribute to someone simply leeching. During my disengagement I usually cloak and afk for a smoke, than come back and see if that moves things along. I also send tells to the others who seemingly are not aware of the leeching being done to disengage from progressing the mission, and see if our leechers have a change of heart or are really afk!!!
you know i do agree with leaching being a problem that being said the cure is usualy worse then the problem just look what they did with kerat it used to be a nice way to earn dilli and ec now because of the leaching it was made a daily and not worth even entering along with many other aspects of the game leaching is just part of that either except it or dont play i myself would rather fight and earn my marks and dilli then sit back and let some one else do all the work but some people dont have the skills and determination to go in and blow stuff up
+1 to this post, this has been a majpr and recurring problem for a LONG time.
Oh yeah, I totally agree with this, not only have I had encounters with such lazy players on these event's but STF's as well.
Unfortunately there is no real way to solve this problem other than having the group put that player on their "ignore list". Allot of good that does :rolleyes:,
For the longest time out here there has been a call to have an option to "Boot out" lazy or under performing players. If Cryptic is putting a leaver penalty for these event's then we as players should also have the power to vote out an under performing player. Period! I as well am sick of those who don't want to work for what they earn.
You have to keep one thing in mind: how will it make PWE money. That's all they really care about. That's the motivation behind the lock boxes, and all of the dilithium sinks. To make money. I know a few people that buy Zen exclusively to sell it on the dilithium exchange rather than spend however much time it takes to accrue 8000. PWE loves people like that. Would you be willing to pay $1.00 to kick the AFK-ers?
AFKing to free Zen doesn't seem like good business for PWE or Cryptic.
I think it needs a multi-pronged approach, and ideally most of the tools are in the players hands.
A report AFK feature like World of ******** has that flags a player and requires them to participate would be great.
Not allowing the Queue system to team us with players on our ignore list would also be a good tool.
Adding in the NW tech that determines the player was inactive and denies them a reward for lack of participation would also be a great step.
Tools like those are difficult to abuse, yet over time still punish the behaviour, and in the case of the ignore list, can be very limiting if enough players add them to their lists.
Tools like being able to vote kick a player are often abused and can be much more easily used to grief a player, so I'm not as much a fan of those.
Teaming with people you know solves the problem of you ever having to team with a leecher.
Many in this thread make the same or very simliar suggestion. Many others, respond with very reasonable rebuttals for why this is not always, or even often, possible.
The likelyhood that I will know and trust four other people, who are online all at the same time, who all want to, and have the ability to, do the same activity at the same time, is very low. I am in a small fleet. I joined solo, and no friends IRL play STO. The few players I've met and established relations with in game are operating on inconsistent and usually drastically different play schedules. Also, being new, and comparatively undergeared, it is difficult to make new friends willing to let you tag along on their adventures as they mistrust the knowledge and ability of such a new and undergeared player.
So, no. Much more easily said than done. This reminds me of a frequent poster's signature line, sorry I don't remember their name. "If your post is anything like 'I have a sandwich so you can't be hungry' it's time to re-think posting". Just because you have no problems regularly getting a qualified and skilled group of players to join you on 5-20 man missions, doesn't mean it is that easy or even achievable for others, and for them, the problem of afkers in public queues still exists.
_________________________________________________
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
I haven't been in a single Azure Nebula Rescue that didn't have atleast 1 afker in the past 3 days. These afkers are clearly botting because they're slowly moving around the map to bypass the auto-kick for being afk. They also roll on loot.
I'm getting sick and tired of this. This wouldn't be so bad if nukara marks weren't such a pain in the TRIBBLE to get.
If Cryptic says there is nothing they can do about this problem they are simply lying.
Cryptics former game, City of Heroes, had a perfect system for this very problem. If a player did not meet some internal (and never revealed) metric for mission participation they received no reward for that mission.
While this didn't make the mission any easier for the active players at the time, it did effectively exterminate leeches. Once they realized there was no more free lunch to be had they simply disappeared.
So yes, this problem can be fixed, the question is whether or not Cryptic can be bothered to do so.
I can' stand them just report them if a player gets enogh reports he is banned
Ehhh, No you are wrong. While I find the practice of AFKing to obtain free rewards appalling, it is NOT against the rules or ToS.
Honestly I am getting really tired of hearing people cry about it. I do STFs with my Fleet Members and try to avoid PUGs if I can. When I Do fly solo I just accept it's apart of the game.
Crying and Whining is a waste of time. I just wish people would grow up.
I say, everyone either leaves when they see a leecher, or they deal with it.
I am sorry, but I tend to announce my intentions to the afk'er and warp out if no response. I will take the hit as long as I am not working for other people's rewards.
Now, if everyone did this, the afk-ing would most likely decrease. But hey.. I can't make people listen to me lol.
And I leave early enough that, if there is an afk'er, a new person can join if they are queued.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Your Javelin deals 125417 (89066) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Tholian Recluse. > lol
Which system? /notes or the ability to form private leagues in queue? Neither of which worked unless players chose to use them.
Incarnate Trials, which were actually implemented by Paragon. They had a participation metric that effected your reward. There was a lot of doubt about the system and it's efficacy however. Especially as people distrusted it's ability to gauge participation for certain build-styles. And it was a hidden system, people felt that their playstyle was being penalized if they got bad luck. If you just sat at the door doing nothing though, you would only get the consolation prize.
However, the participation metric seemed fairly similar to Rift's participation metric [just less visible]. And CO has similar in place for their open world events I believe as well.
It has become more prevalent... I'd rather leave and face the penalty. There are also channels out there to form teams to lessen the occurrence of AFK'ers and Leeches.
Personally, they should just do away with the queues... go to social zones (Think Defera, Nukara where teams are forming in chat), or (as it was in the past) the mission start location, and form teams. This works well in other games... and even in this one (if you belong to an active channel (i.e. PublicEliteSTF and EliteSTF as examples).
Rarely, do you have to wait (at least as far as STF's go)... and you never have a AFK.Leech problem... if there is one, its generally an understandable reason why someone had to go AFK on short notice.
Unfortunately, the non-STF related channels, while they exist... are generally not very active. (FleetEvent, TeamFind, and RedAlert to name a few), whose intention is to avoid the queues... but there are times that days can go by and I don't see a post in these channels.
The queues breed this problem, and since there is no way to punish those who do so, the issue continues to grow. There are options out there, and if the players stopped using the queues in favor of another option... as another poster pointed out... the afk'ers would be spamming LFT's.
TLDR: Ignore the AFK'ers, and start running with channel/zone teams you won't see their request to join your team, and your game play enjoyment will go up).
Instead of sitting around demanding Cryptic do something about the AFKers, why not take control of YOUR actions to make YOUR game experience better?
Learn to control your game experience by using the in-game tools to your advantage.
You have a friends list for more than just saying hi and chatting about the weather. Try to group with other players from your friends list. If you don't have any friends, make some as this IS a social MMO to some degree.
If you are a member of a fleet, group with other fleeties and by extension their friends.
If you have an acquaintance in another fleet, ask them about grouping for a few runs.
Make note of the players you wind up grouping with that get your attention by their skills or apparent knowledge of the instance.
If not already a member of it, try to get an invite to the EliteSTF channel or the FleetEvent channel. These two channels can get fairly busy at times with calls for runs.
Bottom line is this - start taking responsibility for your own game and your experience in this game, or any others.
+1 to this.
Zinc: The universe of Star Trek Online is shaped and changed by the actions of the players...expect to see new planets and races discovered that were unknown the last time you logged in."
I despise leechers, a while back in a session of infected elite, there was a leecher in a star cruiser at spawn, I asked him politely at first just to be diplomatic, the second time of asking I was less diplomatic and told him to get his @&$ over to the fight and help out, he stayed afk, ironic thing is 4 of us got the optional anyway.
Now the idea of cloaking and going afk is a good one (whoever suggested it is a genius) to punish leechers, as long as you click pass on the loot roll and don't kill anything could work if the rest of the team did it, here's the evil part, on khitomer and cure if there is a leecher spotted, intentionally make sure the mission fails so the leecher gets no reward. The more honest and hard working players lose out but it punishes this dishonest behavior.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Comments
We can then go back to how we did it in the old days and find a team to do the events....
Anyway, I do go afk during group missions, but ONLY if it's unavoidable - so yeah, more often than not, I manage to go through the mission without going afk.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Well, it is optional; you can do that NOW.
Yes, I know.
Tell that to everyone else in this thread
Reporting them is not only futile but could be considered as harassment according to the TOS.
The only sure-fire, 100% way to insure that they won't have to group with any of these lesser human beings is for the individual to control just who it is that they group with. It's simple and easy to do. It doesn't take any coding to force anyone else to get along with them. All it takes is for them to accept responsibility for their own actions and enjoyment of the game.
I'm not aware of anybody having been warned or actioned for harassment for merely reporting AFKers. As long as they weren't using "report spam" to do so, or using some automated tool to spam reports. Stay away from anything with "spam" in it and you'll be fine.
Note that my awareness extends only as far as any other player's, of course; if it didn't happen in the forums, I didn't see it.
I tend to think that Cryptic just drops the AFKer reports into the bit-box while thinking "these kids need to learn to play better together".
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
However it should be more....
No Work, No Pay.
Which means Even if you are not AFK if you do not Be a MAN about the Fleet action or what not, you do not get paid.
Being a man = GET IN THERE AND ATTACK.
if you are about to die get as close as possible to the enemy ship... that way when you do, your sacrifice also helps.
Doesn't matter if you got your ship waxed or it is brand new, I am sure Star Fleet Will send you a new one for free.
Oh yeah, I totally agree with this, not only have I had encounters with such lazy players on these event's but STF's as well.
Unfortunately there is no real way to solve this problem other than having the group put that player on their "ignore list". Allot of good that does :rolleyes:,
For the longest time out here there has been a call to have an option to "Boot out" lazy or under performing players. If Cryptic is putting a leaver penalty for these event's then we as players should also have the power to vote out an under performing player. Period! I as well am sick of those who don't want to work for what they earn.
AFKing to free Zen doesn't seem like good business for PWE or Cryptic.
I think it needs a multi-pronged approach, and ideally most of the tools are in the players hands.
A report AFK feature like World of ******** has that flags a player and requires them to participate would be great.
Not allowing the Queue system to team us with players on our ignore list would also be a good tool.
Adding in the NW tech that determines the player was inactive and denies them a reward for lack of participation would also be a great step.
Tools like those are difficult to abuse, yet over time still punish the behaviour, and in the case of the ignore list, can be very limiting if enough players add them to their lists.
Tools like being able to vote kick a player are often abused and can be much more easily used to grief a player, so I'm not as much a fan of those.
Many in this thread make the same or very simliar suggestion. Many others, respond with very reasonable rebuttals for why this is not always, or even often, possible.
The likelyhood that I will know and trust four other people, who are online all at the same time, who all want to, and have the ability to, do the same activity at the same time, is very low. I am in a small fleet. I joined solo, and no friends IRL play STO. The few players I've met and established relations with in game are operating on inconsistent and usually drastically different play schedules. Also, being new, and comparatively undergeared, it is difficult to make new friends willing to let you tag along on their adventures as they mistrust the knowledge and ability of such a new and undergeared player.
So, no. Much more easily said than done. This reminds me of a frequent poster's signature line, sorry I don't remember their name. "If your post is anything like 'I have a sandwich so you can't be hungry' it's time to re-think posting". Just because you have no problems regularly getting a qualified and skilled group of players to join you on 5-20 man missions, doesn't mean it is that easy or even achievable for others, and for them, the problem of afkers in public queues still exists.
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
I'm getting sick and tired of this. This wouldn't be so bad if nukara marks weren't such a pain in the TRIBBLE to get.
Cryptics former game, City of Heroes, had a perfect system for this very problem. If a player did not meet some internal (and never revealed) metric for mission participation they received no reward for that mission.
While this didn't make the mission any easier for the active players at the time, it did effectively exterminate leeches. Once they realized there was no more free lunch to be had they simply disappeared.
So yes, this problem can be fixed, the question is whether or not Cryptic can be bothered to do so.
Someone still has to pay real currency for the Zen.
To be fair, I was mostly in TFs and Incarnate trials at that point.
Oh no totally.
Lag that lets them need on every drop while not moving AND warp out the instant the run is complete.
Yeah, lag. :rolleyes:
Ehhh, No you are wrong. While I find the practice of AFKing to obtain free rewards appalling, it is NOT against the rules or ToS.
Honestly I am getting really tired of hearing people cry about it. I do STFs with my Fleet Members and try to avoid PUGs if I can. When I Do fly solo I just accept it's apart of the game.
Crying and Whining is a waste of time. I just wish people would grow up.
I am sorry, but I tend to announce my intentions to the afk'er and warp out if no response. I will take the hit as long as I am not working for other people's rewards.
Now, if everyone did this, the afk-ing would most likely decrease. But hey.. I can't make people listen to me lol.
And I leave early enough that, if there is an afk'er, a new person can join if they are queued.
Your Javelin deals 125417 (89066) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Tholian Recluse. > lol
Incarnate Trials, which were actually implemented by Paragon. They had a participation metric that effected your reward. There was a lot of doubt about the system and it's efficacy however. Especially as people distrusted it's ability to gauge participation for certain build-styles. And it was a hidden system, people felt that their playstyle was being penalized if they got bad luck. If you just sat at the door doing nothing though, you would only get the consolation prize.
However, the participation metric seemed fairly similar to Rift's participation metric [just less visible]. And CO has similar in place for their open world events I believe as well.
Personally, they should just do away with the queues... go to social zones (Think Defera, Nukara where teams are forming in chat), or (as it was in the past) the mission start location, and form teams. This works well in other games... and even in this one (if you belong to an active channel (i.e. PublicEliteSTF and EliteSTF as examples).
Rarely, do you have to wait (at least as far as STF's go)... and you never have a AFK.Leech problem... if there is one, its generally an understandable reason why someone had to go AFK on short notice.
Unfortunately, the non-STF related channels, while they exist... are generally not very active. (FleetEvent, TeamFind, and RedAlert to name a few), whose intention is to avoid the queues... but there are times that days can go by and I don't see a post in these channels.
The queues breed this problem, and since there is no way to punish those who do so, the issue continues to grow. There are options out there, and if the players stopped using the queues in favor of another option... as another poster pointed out... the afk'ers would be spamming LFT's.
TLDR: Ignore the AFK'ers, and start running with channel/zone teams you won't see their request to join your team, and your game play enjoyment will go up).
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
+1 to this.
And in what way am I leeching by warning others and waiting for the 15mins. to expire and leave? Hmmmm you must not have read into my post!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Now the idea of cloaking and going afk is a good one (whoever suggested it is a genius) to punish leechers, as long as you click pass on the loot roll and don't kill anything could work if the rest of the team did it, here's the evil part, on khitomer and cure if there is a leecher spotted, intentionally make sure the mission fails so the leecher gets no reward. The more honest and hard working players lose out but it punishes this dishonest behavior.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius