Perhaps had you continued to read, you would have seen the part where I said this (and other obstacles put in the way of FTP players) was a problem that could be lived with if the player liked the game enough. Had you bothered to read the entire post instead of rushing to prove how knowledgable you are compared to myself, you would have understood that it was only one item in the lengthy items FTP players must deal with, and not the one that dropped TOR from my playing time.
Read the entire post before trying to sound knowledgable, and you might actually become so.
Security key "problem" you mentioned. Free security key app for phones also works. And those give you 100 coins per month no matter what your status is.
Just like other "problems" you mentioned, most have cures you just don't know about apparently. So again, you just didn't know.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
And I am still waiting on paying to open a gambling boxes that drop as loot to take up inventory space there. The boxes there are direct open and you only get them if you want them.
Now DCUO drops loot boxes that makes free and preferred pay to open with keys. But DCUO shows they love the subs by letting them open the boxes for free. Did I just say free? Yep, I said FREE.
GW2 boxes I opened because keys drop as random loot just fighting normal mobs. And then keys also appear randomly in boxes. So basically a free open.
And the list goes on.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Security key "problem" you mentioned. Free security key app for phones also works. And those give you 100 coins per month no matter what your status is.
Just like other "problems" you mentioned, most have cures you just don't know about apparently. So again, you just didn't know.
Just something to also know. If you are f2p/preferred, the physical key is the only one available. Mobile option is not available if you are free or preferred.
I am looking at more from the free player standpoint. My point is, is that STO's free to play model is better than in SWTOR. Its silly stuff that they make you pay for to make it even livable. Still those limitations can be annoying. Be thankful as a free player that you don't have to pay to equip purple gear in sto.
Even though it's a one time purchase, I agree that paying to equip gear is wrong. And thing is, some of the purple gear people couldn't equip came in the form of them buying the DDE or CE or preorder crystal since they were purple. I think the devs fixed those items though but that made the "purchase to use purple gear" idiocy show front and center.
I am not saying TOR has the perfect F2P setup. I'm just pointing out STO's isn't perfect either. And everyone here shouldn't be throwing stones from their glass houses.
I think a person can go point by point and see where one is better than the other between the two. I am not doubting that. But the overall thing in this thread is everyone believes every point of STO's F2P matrix is perfect in every way. And the funniest part of it, it comes from posters who have the "Career Officer" title who admit they only tried the free version (some not even preferred) TOR setup.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Just something to also know. If you are f2p/preferred, the physical key is the only one available. Mobile option is not available if you are free or preferred.
And they don't have a valid security certificate, which ruined my chance at becoming preferred.
Thank whatever-atheists-believe-in for that. :cool:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Just something to also know. If you are f2p/preferred, the physical key is the only one available. Mobile option is not available if you are free or preferred.
Someone should have told my second account that has it on there. It's one that is now preferred status. Of course it could be because it was in sub time at the time I added it.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Someone should have told my second account that has it on there. It's one that is now preferred status. Of course it could be because it was in sub time at the time I added it.
If you sub and add the mobile key, it works. As long as you add the key before going preferred, you can use the mobile key. If you try to add it after you go preferred, there is no option to add a mobile key. The key is to add it as a subscriber.
I didn't get as far as finding out everything you can't do without laying down cash in SWTOR. The fact that I couldn't use the mail without paying was enough to stop me.
And as for "superior graphics" - when was the last time you found yourself scooting along through space on nothing but your unsupported butt, drive stream trailing behind you? Because that's what happened every time I used the speeder-taxis on Coruscant...
I think that we can all agree that STO has a much better F2P model than SWTOR.
One of the sadder things is seeing F2P players in SWTOR defending the fact that they are being robbed.
Almost as sad as a person paying 15 per month here saying they aren't being robbed.
TOR's set up tries to make one sub. STO is more for buying stuff out the C-Store. Difference between subbing and free here is 5 dollars worth of points that a subber pays 15 dollars for.
Yep, agree. It's sad. On both sides.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
I didn't get as far as finding out everything you can't do without laying down cash in SWTOR. The fact that I couldn't use the mail without paying was enough to stop me.
And as for "superior graphics" - when was the last time you found yourself scooting along through space on nothing but your unsupported butt, drive stream trailing behind you? Because that's what happened every time I used the speeder-taxis on Coruscant...
You do know that FREE players can't mail in this game at the start either? Again, someone who says what's wrong there and the same exists here. You're just not free here to see it. That's like someone who is a subber there or preferred, comes to STO and tries to mail something while free then going back to TOR's site saying, "Boo and hoo. I can't mail there."
The invisible speeder bug is a LOL though. I can't deny that.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Only thing which kept me away from SWTOR is the fact I never sub to anything on a monthly basis and the fact that the credit limit is so low there with no chance of limiting the cap that it just seemed like it would be totally unplayable as a preferred at higher levels.
Dont get me wrong I have no objection to spending money but their system is just downright awful.
I will say STO wins the customization too. But mainly replying to you about the LOTRO and DDO model. It seems Rift can be added to the list too if what they are saying will happen in 2 weeks is true and they don't change it.
EDIT: Oh and TR had the best tutorial ever. It was so good I replayed it over and over again because it was the best part of the game. And what did they do? They changed it and made it suck like the rest of the game.
I had the same experience. My problem was that there is no straight path of progration. I got lost and quit.
Do you mean progression? As in the path you take to reach max level? Are you saying that you got lost in SWTOR? It's story path is extremely linear. I'm a little confused as to how you could get lost. There's so many things in the game that tell you exactly where to go next and how to get there?
Some more details would be helpful. What were you playing? Class? When did you get lost? What planet were you on? I haven't played in like 6 months and I bet I could help you right off the top of my head because of how straight a line the story arcs were.
They're fun stories. But they're definitely not designed real subtle and sneaky.
You do know that FREE players can't mail in this game at the start either? Again, someone who says what's wrong there and the same exists here. You're just not free here to see it. That's like someone who is a subber there or preferred, comes to STO and tries to mail something while free then going back to TOR's site saying, "Boo and hoo. I can't mail there."
The invisible speeder bug is a LOL though. I can't deny that.
Of course, STO does allow FTP players who do support the game (even if it is a single one-time purchase) full access to the game. SWTOR does not. Unless you are a full sub, you have no ability to participate in the Forums, and are limited in just about every part of the game. Also, in STO, there exists means for players who don't want to use actual real money to obtain credit to make purchases. TOR does not, to my knowledge, offer any way to obtain Cartel Coins except by actual monetary transfer.
However, as I said, it was the attempt to extort me for a Security Key purchase that was the final straw. The Devs in TOR consistently demonstrated an intent to put roadblocks for FTP and 'Preferred' Players, and I decided it simply wasn't worth it for a company with demonstrated and stated disdain for myself and others as players in their game. I can say STO never did that to me, and I find STO far superior because of this. I will support STO because I choose to do so, not because I am required to do so.
One thing that really p***** me off about SWTOR is the treatment of former gold members or subs. In STO you get to keep everything you've earned while subbing and everything that unlocked with the subscription. Bank slots, items, ships, characters etc...
In SWTOR, if you had 4 characters when you were a subber and are now returning to the game: "FU, choose 2 of the 4, the others will be unlocked again after you resubscribe. Oh, and you can't use your purple gear that you collected and earned pre-F2P either...."
i have played both for a while now, although i wasnt around for sto beta, a year late, however i was around during swtor cb beta and i still play the game from time to time, they add new content do lots of bug fixing, admittedly their work on that end puts cryptic's development team to shame. however their attitude towards telling the playerbase what they need to know is exactly the same, tease them with information and then remain silent and if there is a major issue, dont state anything.
swtor's space combat is a pile of TRIBBLE without question, and since the game is primarily ground based it is completely superior to STO's attempt, but STO has the space advantage so they cancel each other out. both are neither the best or the worst. both have now got a running cash store and complicated currency systems, the only real major difference working in STO's favor is the lack of grinding. swtor has displayed a long grinding cycle and after you play the game a few times, its situation of playing a different tune on the same theme as the last one, so no real difference.both games have their moments.
i dont share the coment from the op about sto blowing swtor out of the water.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I'm currently a subscriber, but I have been F2P from time to time in STO also, and I really appreciate how complete the f2p experience is. I got to try everything for free, it makes deciding to subscribe and spend more money in the z-store a much easier decision that way.
As for Bioware they were one of my favorite companies with Baldurs Gate, KOTOR and Neverwinternights, but I am getting sick of them. I didn't like Dragon Age series at all, and Mass Effect started out ok but last 2 games and ending not good.
SWTOR is last straw for me, I downloaded the game and played just long enough to see how much stuff was locked and uninstalled immediatley. I would have no problem subscribing to the game after playing free for a month or 2 if it weren't for that. I just felt like I was being insulted and lied to so I wasn't even interested in playing long enough to see if I did want to subcribe or not. Anyway I am done with Bioware and will not be the slightest bit interested in anything from them anymore.
As much as people like to bash the devs here, they really need to go check SWTOR out and maybe will gain some appreciation for STO and its devs.
Exactly, and don't forget interactive video with multiple optional outcomes based on what you select for your answers in TOR...
Now STO isn't at that level and can't compete there, but having said that the new LoR content and detail has really lifted STO and if the team can keep this level of delivery up (And follow through with back support) STO will become quite epic...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
I'm currently a subscriber, but I have been F2P from time to time in STO also, and I really appreciate how complete the f2p experience is. I got to try everything for free, it makes deciding to subscribe and spend more money in the z-store a much easier decision that way.
As for Bioware they were one of my favorite companies with Baldurs Gate, KOTOR and Neverwinternights, but I am getting sick of them. I didn't like Dragon Age series at all, and Mass Effect started out ok but last 2 games and ending not good.
SWTOR is last straw for me, I downloaded the game and played just long enough to see how much stuff was locked and uninstalled immediatley. I would have no problem subscribing to the game after playing free for a month or 2 if it weren't for that. I just felt like I was being insulted and lied to so I wasn't even interested in playing long enough to see if I did want to subcribe or not. Anyway I am done with Bioware and will not be the slightest bit interested in anything from them anymore.
As much as people like to bash the devs here, they really need to go check SWTOR out and maybe will gain some appreciation for STO and its devs.
The game does not lie or mislead you about its f2p model. However, I do agree its all geared to get a free player to subscribe.
I love both games equally, well STO edges it out more, but I love the fact that my character seems to have done something worthwhile in SWTOR and the NPCs reflect it.
I hate getting orders from LTs and CAPTs when I am an VADM. Character-wise, my STO doesn't feel like it progressed at all in STO's story. STO's story is very forgetable and every additional content prior to LOR felt like it was just tacked onto the game rather than explained. Yes, we get dev blogs, but the majority of them are pretty much, it was in the series thats why its in the game. Like the Tholians in Season Six, I pretty much forgot why they are doing what they are doing on Nukara, and I really don't care.
If you go to Voss in SWTOR, I remember that story very well and I cared about those self-righteous Voss.
Of course, STO does allow FTP players who do support the game (even if it is a single one-time purchase) full access to the game. SWTOR does not. Unless you are a full sub, you have no ability to participate in the Forums, and are limited in just about every part of the game. Also, in STO, there exists means for players who don't want to use actual real money to obtain credit to make purchases. TOR does not, to my knowledge, offer any way to obtain Cartel Coins except by actual monetary transfer.
However, as I said, it was the attempt to extort me for a Security Key purchase that was the final straw. The Devs in TOR consistently demonstrated an intent to put roadblocks for FTP and 'Preferred' Players, and I decided it simply wasn't worth it for a company with demonstrated and stated disdain for myself and others as players in their game. I can say STO never did that to me, and I find STO far superior because of this. I will support STO because I choose to do so, not because I am required to do so.
Jon who I was talking to there was saying he tried to MAIL and couldn't so I pointed out how it's the same here on how MAIL is handled. He went there and comes back complaining as a free player he can't MAIL something and the same can be said here. It's preventive measure games do to slow down gold spammers. And a welcome feature I might add. So I am glad BOTH games (along with all the others out there) do this. But to slam TOR for it and not STO shows a bias.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Here, I needed to play for 20 hours before all of Chat became available, and I could use the mail. It's a simple precaution to discourage gold farmers and spammers. (Well, technically, since I'd played CO first, I didn't have to wait at all - it's all the same account.)
In SWTOR, unless I paid cash money, I could never, ever use the mail system, at least according to their own documentation. I don't know for sure if the chat remained limited, because there was no one in those chat boxes I wanted to communicate with. Darn few I was happy about sharing a planet with, to be honest.
Almost as sad as a person paying 15 per month here saying they aren't being robbed.
TOR's set up tries to make one sub. STO is more for buying stuff out the C-Store. Difference between subbing and free here is 5 dollars worth of points that a subber pays 15 dollars for.
Yep, agree. It's sad. On both sides.
Seriously? This guy smells like a shill. STO is by far the superior game. I even like the ground combat. The F2P model here is the best in the industry. Avoids being pay to win but delivers enough 'I want that!' factor to tempt you to purchase things. You can be as successful as any paying player in endgame without spending a single penny and NO content whatsoever is locked out. Can the same be said of SWTOR? Didn't think so.
Plus EA.... I tried SWTOR and came back to STO feeling like a cheating husband who just got a case of the crotch itchies. And I felt I deserved it, I KNEW what kind of girl EA is.
And I am one of the masses completely done with subbing for games. F2P brought me to 2 Cryptic games and I have spent money here that I would have invested elsewhere. F2P is the future, like it or lump it. I for one think it is a positive.
If people enjoy their subscription to SWTOR, that is fine and dandy. But calling 'all F2P TRIBBLE' and slamming this games model (which any sensible person will tell you is the gold standard) reveals you to be a total blind fanboy, obvious shill, or complete elitist jerk.
I gave SWTOR a fair shake, it just fails compared to this game.
Here, I needed to play for 20 hours before all of Chat became available, and I could use the mail. It's a simple precaution to discourage gold farmers and spammers. (Well, technically, since I'd played CO first, I didn't have to wait at all - it's all the same account.)
In SWTOR, unless I paid cash money, I could never, ever use the mail system, at least according to their own documentation. I don't know for sure if the chat remained limited, because there was no one in those chat boxes I wanted to communicate with. Darn few I was happy about sharing a planet with, to be honest.
The chat remains limited, but at least you can whisper to people after level 10. That bit was a lifesaver to me. And guild chat is completely free.
Seriously? This guy smells like a shill. STO is by far the superior game. I even like the ground combat. The F2P model here is the best in the industry. Avoids being pay to win but delivers enough 'I want that!' factor to tempt you to purchase things. You can be as successful as any paying player in endgame without spending a single penny and NO content whatsoever is locked out. Can the same be said of SWTOR? Didn't think so.
Plus EA.... I tried SWTOR and came back to STO feeling like a cheating husband who just got a case of the crotch itchies. And I felt I deserved it, I KNEW what kind of girl EA is.
And I am one of the masses completely done with subbing for games. F2P brought me to 2 Cryptic games and I have spent money here that I would have invested elsewhere. F2P is the future, like it or lump it. I for one think it is a positive.
If people enjoy their subscription to SWTOR, that is fine and dandy. But calling 'all F2P TRIBBLE' and slamming this games model (which any sensible person will tell you is the gold standard) reveals you to be a total blind fanboy, obvious shill, or complete elitist jerk.
I gave SWTOR a fair shake, it just fails compared to this game.
I fully agree with the contents of this post. Though to be honest, I wouldn't have come back to STO anyway if it weren't for LoR - I'd have gone back to Garry's Mod or the point of origin for all my RP - StarCraft 2. :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Well, as i had a lot of fun with several freemium models (i don't mind paying. But as casual gamer with limited time i don't want a subscription and waste money for maybe not playing. ), i gave it a try, when it went f2p. Bought some points asap for inventory and crafting and being perferred and started playing.
It was horrible. Everywhere i ran into additional limitations that were not advertised. Most annoying was that the crafting, even if you bought all the optionals simply produced worse quality stuff than for subs.
The rest of the game i found kind of ok, so i would have played until after one or two weeks after f2p suddenly i was no longer able to post in their forum. Yes, not only f2p, also preferred people excluded. At this time i was annoyed to say at least and knowing that i would not be able to do endgame without montly passes (subscription light) i was seriously contemplating to stop buying anything elso, see the nice classstories and quit.
Some time after that i became stuck (on my ship) with my main. Which happens often over there. Well, there is a tool for that. That works sometimes but not always. In this case it didn't. Restarting client didn't work. I looked a bit around the internet and found that they had introduced an emergency teleport for such cases. Which does only work for subs.
Yes a tool to handle often occuring, well known bugs is only for subs.
Well, then i tried support and GM only to find that both do only work for subs. Of cource the technical assistence opart of their forum was, like everything else, only for subs.
So... i have a gamebraking bug and can't even contact anyone. Great.
There is a solution for preferred ones. You could buy one-time-teleports from the store.
No, that was enough for me. I left the game. That is not a way to handle customers. And the apology about "paying" doesn't hold, as i did invest some enough money to get most things i might have wanted from the start. At least those, that were disclosed beforehand.
Over some months i once and again tried to login to their forum to see, if my posting rights might have changed. They did not. Oh, well, there are enough other Freemium games. SWTOR had it's chance, and its gameplay was tedious anyway.
Here, I needed to play for 20 hours before all of Chat became available, and I could use the mail. It's a simple precaution to discourage gold farmers and spammers. (Well, technically, since I'd played CO first, I didn't have to wait at all - it's all the same account.)
In SWTOR, unless I paid cash money, I could never, ever use the mail system, at least according to their own documentation. I don't know for sure if the chat remained limited, because there was no one in those chat boxes I wanted to communicate with. Darn few I was happy about sharing a planet with, to be honest.
You statement was you couldn't mail as if something doesn't exist in STO which it does. And every game out there has one form or another of unlocking chat/mail for free players.
And limiting those things are a good thing IMO. I even said I like having it in BOTH games. How is that biased? I support both games having something in place. And if a small 5 dollars of buying something in a store is going to hurt you so much, then you shouldn't play MMO's when we all are used to 15 per month as the standard. (You'd have to be an infant to not remember that)
Bias is showing favoritism to one side and not the other for doing the same thing. You are slamming one game for doing it and not the other. I praised both games for doing it. And TOR nor STO were the first to do it the way they ended up doing it as far as unlocking it goes.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Seriously? This guy smells like a shill. STO is by far the superior game. I even like the ground combat. The F2P model here is the best in the industry. Avoids being pay to win but delivers enough 'I want that!' factor to tempt you to purchase things. You can be as successful as any paying player in endgame without spending a single penny and NO content whatsoever is locked out. Can the same be said of SWTOR? Didn't think so.
Plus EA.... I tried SWTOR and came back to STO feeling like a cheating husband who just got a case of the crotch itchies. And I felt I deserved it, I KNEW what kind of girl EA is.
And I am one of the masses completely done with subbing for games. F2P brought me to 2 Cryptic games and I have spent money here that I would have invested elsewhere. F2P is the future, like it or lump it. I for one think it is a positive.
If people enjoy their subscription to SWTOR, that is fine and dandy. But calling 'all F2P TRIBBLE' and slamming this games model (which any sensible person will tell you is the gold standard) reveals you to be a total blind fanboy, obvious shill, or complete elitist jerk.
I gave SWTOR a fair shake, it just fails compared to this game.
Superior game is a matter of opinion. Not fact. There are people on their forums that say TOR is the far superior game. And they have more numbers that say that there. They have 500k active subs and not counting the free players. STO never had that number. See? Opinions. They are nice to have but mean nothing to the next guy.
And L2R, I never called "ALL F2P" TRIBBLE. Quote it or it didn't happen. I said of the F2P games out there, both games models are TRIBBLE. That's my opinion because other games out there have better F2P models than both STO and TOR.
I have said throughout the thread both have issues. Yet you say "STO is the gold standard"? That's fanboi all over it.
Oh and the quote you did. I was pointing out how a sub here is being ripped off and you even supported that in your post. Good job. Someone paying 15 a month here is just being bent over and asking for more since they can do it without paying 15 per month.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Personally, I enjoy both games. Fans of one or the other are going to feel strongly about whichever one they enjoy more, however I think the bigger picture is that F2P in general is very flawed across most games.
I think companies would do a lot better to have a lower sub price point (5-10 dollars monthly) and also have a cash shop to augment the need for aesthetics people want to personalize their player characters.
All these insidious ways of funneling people to pay could be avoided, and thus ridiculous grinds, gambling boxes, and hidden fees like crafting taxes (yes there is a crafting tax in STO) would be kept out. Players could actually enjoy a game for the stories or whatever particular in-game activity they like best.
The real issue is the stupid way free to play is implemented in the industry.
Lifetime subber and former STO player from when it didn't suck.
Personally, I enjoy both games. Fans of one or the other are going to feel strongly about whichever one they enjoy more, however I think the bigger picture is that F2P in general is very flawed across most games.
I think companies would do a lot better to have a lower sub price point (5-10 dollars monthly) and also have a cash shop to augment the need for aesthetics people want to personalize their player characters.
All these insidious ways of funneling people to pay could be avoided, and thus ridiculous grinds, gambling boxes, and hidden fees like crafting taxes (yes there is a crafting tax in STO) would be kept out. Players could actually enjoy a game for the stories or whatever particular in-game activity they like best.
The real issue is the stupid way free to play is implemented in the industry.
FINALLY. Someone with intelligence. Fully agree with your post.
DCUO has the same kind of lockboxes as STO where they just drop into your inventory and take up the limited space free players get. However, a sub to DCUO gets to open them for free. STO still charges subs for those keys.
TOR boxes are not inventory eaters. You want to get a box, you pay for the box. No keys.
It's crazy to give free players limited inventory space then fill them up with something you have to pay to open.
And I would rank GW2 boxes above all of them. I opened the boxes without paying anything. No in-game credits, no real world money. I got keys dropped as random loot from normal mobs (no raid required even). And some boxes had a key inside to open the next box. Has anyone gotten a key inside a box in another game with these key needed lockboxes? Serious question. I want to know of another game that does that.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Comments
Security key "problem" you mentioned. Free security key app for phones also works. And those give you 100 coins per month no matter what your status is.
Just like other "problems" you mentioned, most have cures you just don't know about apparently. So again, you just didn't know.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Now DCUO drops loot boxes that makes free and preferred pay to open with keys. But DCUO shows they love the subs by letting them open the boxes for free. Did I just say free? Yep, I said FREE.
GW2 boxes I opened because keys drop as random loot just fighting normal mobs. And then keys also appear randomly in boxes. So basically a free open.
And the list goes on.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Just something to also know. If you are f2p/preferred, the physical key is the only one available. Mobile option is not available if you are free or preferred.
Even though it's a one time purchase, I agree that paying to equip gear is wrong. And thing is, some of the purple gear people couldn't equip came in the form of them buying the DDE or CE or preorder crystal since they were purple. I think the devs fixed those items though but that made the "purchase to use purple gear" idiocy show front and center.
I am not saying TOR has the perfect F2P setup. I'm just pointing out STO's isn't perfect either. And everyone here shouldn't be throwing stones from their glass houses.
I think a person can go point by point and see where one is better than the other between the two. I am not doubting that. But the overall thing in this thread is everyone believes every point of STO's F2P matrix is perfect in every way. And the funniest part of it, it comes from posters who have the "Career Officer" title who admit they only tried the free version (some not even preferred) TOR setup.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
And they don't have a valid security certificate, which ruined my chance at becoming preferred.
Thank whatever-atheists-believe-in for that. :cool:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Someone should have told my second account that has it on there. It's one that is now preferred status. Of course it could be because it was in sub time at the time I added it.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
One of the sadder things is seeing F2P players in SWTOR defending the fact that they are being robbed.
If you sub and add the mobile key, it works. As long as you add the key before going preferred, you can use the mobile key. If you try to add it after you go preferred, there is no option to add a mobile key. The key is to add it as a subscriber.
And as for "superior graphics" - when was the last time you found yourself scooting along through space on nothing but your unsupported butt, drive stream trailing behind you? Because that's what happened every time I used the speeder-taxis on Coruscant...
Almost as sad as a person paying 15 per month here saying they aren't being robbed.
TOR's set up tries to make one sub. STO is more for buying stuff out the C-Store. Difference between subbing and free here is 5 dollars worth of points that a subber pays 15 dollars for.
Yep, agree. It's sad. On both sides.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
You do know that FREE players can't mail in this game at the start either? Again, someone who says what's wrong there and the same exists here. You're just not free here to see it. That's like someone who is a subber there or preferred, comes to STO and tries to mail something while free then going back to TOR's site saying, "Boo and hoo. I can't mail there."
The invisible speeder bug is a LOL though. I can't deny that.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Dont get me wrong I have no objection to spending money but their system is just downright awful.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
I'm looking forward to playing Rift again.
Do you mean progression? As in the path you take to reach max level? Are you saying that you got lost in SWTOR? It's story path is extremely linear. I'm a little confused as to how you could get lost. There's so many things in the game that tell you exactly where to go next and how to get there?
Some more details would be helpful. What were you playing? Class? When did you get lost? What planet were you on? I haven't played in like 6 months and I bet I could help you right off the top of my head because of how straight a line the story arcs were.
They're fun stories. But they're definitely not designed real subtle and sneaky.
Of course, STO does allow FTP players who do support the game (even if it is a single one-time purchase) full access to the game. SWTOR does not. Unless you are a full sub, you have no ability to participate in the Forums, and are limited in just about every part of the game. Also, in STO, there exists means for players who don't want to use actual real money to obtain credit to make purchases. TOR does not, to my knowledge, offer any way to obtain Cartel Coins except by actual monetary transfer.
However, as I said, it was the attempt to extort me for a Security Key purchase that was the final straw. The Devs in TOR consistently demonstrated an intent to put roadblocks for FTP and 'Preferred' Players, and I decided it simply wasn't worth it for a company with demonstrated and stated disdain for myself and others as players in their game. I can say STO never did that to me, and I find STO far superior because of this. I will support STO because I choose to do so, not because I am required to do so.
In SWTOR, if you had 4 characters when you were a subber and are now returning to the game: "FU, choose 2 of the 4, the others will be unlocked again after you resubscribe. Oh, and you can't use your purple gear that you collected and earned pre-F2P either...."
swtor's space combat is a pile of TRIBBLE without question, and since the game is primarily ground based it is completely superior to STO's attempt, but STO has the space advantage so they cancel each other out. both are neither the best or the worst. both have now got a running cash store and complicated currency systems, the only real major difference working in STO's favor is the lack of grinding. swtor has displayed a long grinding cycle and after you play the game a few times, its situation of playing a different tune on the same theme as the last one, so no real difference.both games have their moments.
i dont share the coment from the op about sto blowing swtor out of the water.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
As for Bioware they were one of my favorite companies with Baldurs Gate, KOTOR and Neverwinternights, but I am getting sick of them. I didn't like Dragon Age series at all, and Mass Effect started out ok but last 2 games and ending not good.
SWTOR is last straw for me, I downloaded the game and played just long enough to see how much stuff was locked and uninstalled immediatley. I would have no problem subscribing to the game after playing free for a month or 2 if it weren't for that. I just felt like I was being insulted and lied to so I wasn't even interested in playing long enough to see if I did want to subcribe or not. Anyway I am done with Bioware and will not be the slightest bit interested in anything from them anymore.
As much as people like to bash the devs here, they really need to go check SWTOR out and maybe will gain some appreciation for STO and its devs.
Exactly, and don't forget interactive video with multiple optional outcomes based on what you select for your answers in TOR...
Now STO isn't at that level and can't compete there, but having said that the new LoR content and detail has really lifted STO and if the team can keep this level of delivery up (And follow through with back support) STO will become quite epic...
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
The game does not lie or mislead you about its f2p model. However, I do agree its all geared to get a free player to subscribe.
I love both games equally, well STO edges it out more, but I love the fact that my character seems to have done something worthwhile in SWTOR and the NPCs reflect it.
I hate getting orders from LTs and CAPTs when I am an VADM. Character-wise, my STO doesn't feel like it progressed at all in STO's story. STO's story is very forgetable and every additional content prior to LOR felt like it was just tacked onto the game rather than explained. Yes, we get dev blogs, but the majority of them are pretty much, it was in the series thats why its in the game. Like the Tholians in Season Six, I pretty much forgot why they are doing what they are doing on Nukara, and I really don't care.
If you go to Voss in SWTOR, I remember that story very well and I cared about those self-righteous Voss.
Jon who I was talking to there was saying he tried to MAIL and couldn't so I pointed out how it's the same here on how MAIL is handled. He went there and comes back complaining as a free player he can't MAIL something and the same can be said here. It's preventive measure games do to slow down gold spammers. And a welcome feature I might add. So I am glad BOTH games (along with all the others out there) do this. But to slam TOR for it and not STO shows a bias.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Here, I needed to play for 20 hours before all of Chat became available, and I could use the mail. It's a simple precaution to discourage gold farmers and spammers. (Well, technically, since I'd played CO first, I didn't have to wait at all - it's all the same account.)
In SWTOR, unless I paid cash money, I could never, ever use the mail system, at least according to their own documentation. I don't know for sure if the chat remained limited, because there was no one in those chat boxes I wanted to communicate with. Darn few I was happy about sharing a planet with, to be honest.
Seriously? This guy smells like a shill. STO is by far the superior game. I even like the ground combat. The F2P model here is the best in the industry. Avoids being pay to win but delivers enough 'I want that!' factor to tempt you to purchase things. You can be as successful as any paying player in endgame without spending a single penny and NO content whatsoever is locked out. Can the same be said of SWTOR? Didn't think so.
Plus EA.... I tried SWTOR and came back to STO feeling like a cheating husband who just got a case of the crotch itchies. And I felt I deserved it, I KNEW what kind of girl EA is.
And I am one of the masses completely done with subbing for games. F2P brought me to 2 Cryptic games and I have spent money here that I would have invested elsewhere. F2P is the future, like it or lump it. I for one think it is a positive.
If people enjoy their subscription to SWTOR, that is fine and dandy. But calling 'all F2P TRIBBLE' and slamming this games model (which any sensible person will tell you is the gold standard) reveals you to be a total blind fanboy, obvious shill, or complete elitist jerk.
I gave SWTOR a fair shake, it just fails compared to this game.
The chat remains limited, but at least you can whisper to people after level 10. That bit was a lifesaver to me. And guild chat is completely free.
I fully agree with the contents of this post. Though to be honest, I wouldn't have come back to STO anyway if it weren't for LoR - I'd have gone back to Garry's Mod or the point of origin for all my RP - StarCraft 2. :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
It was horrible. Everywhere i ran into additional limitations that were not advertised. Most annoying was that the crafting, even if you bought all the optionals simply produced worse quality stuff than for subs.
The rest of the game i found kind of ok, so i would have played until after one or two weeks after f2p suddenly i was no longer able to post in their forum. Yes, not only f2p, also preferred people excluded. At this time i was annoyed to say at least and knowing that i would not be able to do endgame without montly passes (subscription light) i was seriously contemplating to stop buying anything elso, see the nice classstories and quit.
Some time after that i became stuck (on my ship) with my main. Which happens often over there. Well, there is a tool for that. That works sometimes but not always. In this case it didn't. Restarting client didn't work. I looked a bit around the internet and found that they had introduced an emergency teleport for such cases. Which does only work for subs.
Yes a tool to handle often occuring, well known bugs is only for subs.
Well, then i tried support and GM only to find that both do only work for subs. Of cource the technical assistence opart of their forum was, like everything else, only for subs.
So... i have a gamebraking bug and can't even contact anyone. Great.
There is a solution for preferred ones. You could buy one-time-teleports from the store.
No, that was enough for me. I left the game. That is not a way to handle customers. And the apology about "paying" doesn't hold, as i did invest some enough money to get most things i might have wanted from the start. At least those, that were disclosed beforehand.
Over some months i once and again tried to login to their forum to see, if my posting rights might have changed. They did not. Oh, well, there are enough other Freemium games. SWTOR had it's chance, and its gameplay was tedious anyway.
You statement was you couldn't mail as if something doesn't exist in STO which it does. And every game out there has one form or another of unlocking chat/mail for free players.
And limiting those things are a good thing IMO. I even said I like having it in BOTH games. How is that biased? I support both games having something in place. And if a small 5 dollars of buying something in a store is going to hurt you so much, then you shouldn't play MMO's when we all are used to 15 per month as the standard. (You'd have to be an infant to not remember that)
Bias is showing favoritism to one side and not the other for doing the same thing. You are slamming one game for doing it and not the other. I praised both games for doing it. And TOR nor STO were the first to do it the way they ended up doing it as far as unlocking it goes.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Superior game is a matter of opinion. Not fact. There are people on their forums that say TOR is the far superior game. And they have more numbers that say that there. They have 500k active subs and not counting the free players. STO never had that number. See? Opinions. They are nice to have but mean nothing to the next guy.
And L2R, I never called "ALL F2P" TRIBBLE. Quote it or it didn't happen. I said of the F2P games out there, both games models are TRIBBLE. That's my opinion because other games out there have better F2P models than both STO and TOR.
I have said throughout the thread both have issues. Yet you say "STO is the gold standard"? That's fanboi all over it.
Oh and the quote you did. I was pointing out how a sub here is being ripped off and you even supported that in your post. Good job. Someone paying 15 a month here is just being bent over and asking for more since they can do it without paying 15 per month.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
I think companies would do a lot better to have a lower sub price point (5-10 dollars monthly) and also have a cash shop to augment the need for aesthetics people want to personalize their player characters.
All these insidious ways of funneling people to pay could be avoided, and thus ridiculous grinds, gambling boxes, and hidden fees like crafting taxes (yes there is a crafting tax in STO) would be kept out. Players could actually enjoy a game for the stories or whatever particular in-game activity they like best.
The real issue is the stupid way free to play is implemented in the industry.
Fed: Astarsha, level 60 tactical officer
KDF: K'tana level 54 tactical officer
FINALLY. Someone with intelligence.
DCUO has the same kind of lockboxes as STO where they just drop into your inventory and take up the limited space free players get. However, a sub to DCUO gets to open them for free. STO still charges subs for those keys.
TOR boxes are not inventory eaters. You want to get a box, you pay for the box. No keys.
It's crazy to give free players limited inventory space then fill them up with something you have to pay to open.
And I would rank GW2 boxes above all of them. I opened the boxes without paying anything. No in-game credits, no real world money. I got keys dropped as random loot from normal mobs (no raid required even). And some boxes had a key inside to open the next box. Has anyone gotten a key inside a box in another game with these key needed lockboxes? Serious question. I want to know of another game that does that.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution