Oh and supreme, I think they would be better off doing a 10 dollar per month sub without a coin grant in games. People ask for that on the TOR forums and I agree with it.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Oh and supreme, I think they would be better off doing a 10 dollar per month sub without a coin grant in games. People ask for that on the TOR forums and I agree with it.
I could accept that. It seems that publishers and folks that set the price points, don't take into account the economic climate in the first place. If you have a common sense and up front sub price, people will be inclined to play. There's no need to play the "free to play" shell game with people.
Unfortunately, you have what we have now. SWTOR being restrictive, and STO just being a mess.
Some will call me disgruntled because I'm a life subber since Season 1 here, but I fought the STO F2P transition, and will always dislike how it killed crafting, added those idiotic lockboxes, and led to the TRIBBLE up of the game economy with Dilithium. Add in the time gated content, ridiculous grind, and bugs and downtime, you have a mess. I return from time to time to STO simply because I'm a Trek fan, and I do like many things about LoR even though the game as a whole is still messed up.
SWTOR I get annoyed with because of their high cartel market prices and the fact that cartel packs have just as terrible drops as lockboxes here, but at least it's playable, I enjoy the warzone PvP there, and I am not taxed with another currency when companion crafting.
Lifetime subber and former STO player from when it didn't suck.
So here's the thing right. It's obvious I prefer STO to SWTOR. I'm here playing STO. So there's that. But ground combat?
Not only is SWTOR better at the ground combat, every other cryptic game is better at ground combat. Champions Online is an amazing ground combat experience. So I don't know. I just wouldn't really tout STO's ground combat or it's crafting.
Overall the game is a ton of fun and one I find myself gladly playing. But some bits of it fall maddeningly short.
So here's the thing right. It's obvious I prefer STO to SWTOR. I'm here playing STO. So there's that. But ground combat?
Not only is SWTOR better at the ground combat, every other cryptic game is better at ground combat. Champions Online is an amazing ground combat experience. So I don't know. I just wouldn't really tout STO's ground combat or it's crafting.
Overall the game is a ton of fun and one I find myself gladly playing. But some bits of it fall maddeningly short.
Least that's my take on it.
Exactly. And he claimed *I* was the fanboi here when I point out the flaws in both games. Be careful, Snog. He will call you a fanboi now too. lol
I haven't touch NW, but all the other games Cryptic did. Started with them in CoH beta, to CO, to STO. And ground here is the bottom of the three.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
And comparing the two F2P model is like comparing TRIBBLE to dump. Both are bottom of the barrel compared to other games out there btw.
Theres ya quote.Yeah, I paraphrased you, but there it is. And your feelings show in your other posts. I can read between the lines. jonsills said it best: 'your prejudice is showing'. You can claim to be trying to stay fair and balanced, but saying that does not make it so.
Can you name a MMO with a better F2P model? I doubt it. But I am curious. At any rate, that ALSO would be an opinion. (C wut I did thar?) And I most certainly stand by the statement that this games model is the gold standard. I am no stranger to F2P MMOs and this along with Champions remain the best I have played in that regard.
It's no news that opinions are like buttholes. Pot and kettle sir.
Also: yep, I personally like the ground combat here. I dislike SWTOR combat because it is just WoW all over again. I left that game years ago and expected better from SW and Bioware. Nowadays I get kinda bored with that style of game mechanic and I like that STO has a more action-oriented approach. I am well aware it is not many peoples favorite part of the game, but I like it. Crafting here is useless though, I grant that.
If people enjoy their subscription to SWTOR, that is fine and dandy. But calling 'all F2P TRIBBLE' and slamming this games model (which any sensible person will tell you is the gold standard) reveals you to be a total blind fanboy, obvious shill, or complete elitist jerk.
And here you claimed I said I called "all F2P TRIBBLE". So what you quoted what I said and what you claimed I said are 2 different things. So try again.
What I said in the quote you brought up is both games are bottom of the barrel TRIBBLE compared to other F2P games out there.
You can add things to what I said and argue against those statements but that just means you are talking to yourself. You can get therapy for that btw.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Theres ya quote.Yeah, I paraphrased you, but there it is. And your feelings show in your other posts. I can read between the lines. jonsills said it best: 'your prejudice is showing'. You can claim to be trying to stay fair and balanced, but saying that does not make it so.
Can you name a MMO with a better F2P model? I doubt it. But I am curious. At any rate, that ALSO would be an opinion. (C wut I did thar?) And I most certainly stand by the statement that this games model is the gold standard. I am no stranger to F2P MMOs and this along with Champions remain the best I have played in that regard.
It's no news that opinions are like buttholes. Pot and kettle sir.
Also: yep, I personally like the ground combat here. I dislike SWTOR combat because it is just WoW all over again. I left that game years ago and expected better from SW and Bioware. Nowadays I get kinda bored with that style of game mechanic and I like that STO has a more action-oriented approach. I am well aware it is not many peoples favorite part of the game, but I like it. Crafting here is useless though, I grant that.
And when I say both games have issues and you can't even admit to one thing wrong with STO, that is the ultimate in bias.
And I have named a few in this thread better than both games. And they are normally the ones people point at to say that's how F2P should be done. Nobody outside this board points to STO and nobody outside TOR's board points to TOR.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Also part of a F2P model has to look at does it have a sub based version to run along side it. And is that sub worth it.
This is where STO fails terribly. At least GW and GW2 doesn't try to get suckers -- I mean subs to pay monthly when it's not worth it. For 15 per month, what can subs do here that a free player can't? Basically, on month number 1... they get 5 dollars worth of points. Gee. they may as well paid 5 dollars for the points and save 10 dollars for that.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Personally, I enjoy both games. Fans of one or the other are going to feel strongly about whichever one they enjoy more, however I think the bigger picture is that F2P in general is very flawed across most games.
I think companies would do a lot better to have a lower sub price point (5-10 dollars monthly) and also have a cash shop to augment the need for aesthetics people want to personalize their player characters.
All these insidious ways of funneling people to pay could be avoided, and thus ridiculous grinds, gambling boxes, and hidden fees like crafting taxes (yes there is a crafting tax in STO) would be kept out. Players could actually enjoy a game for the stories or whatever particular in-game activity they like best.
The real issue is the stupid way free to play is implemented in the industry.
Meh, you could probably keep a good MMO running simply on donations. (see SWGEmu and similar SWG emulator projects)
True, you wouldn't have much of a development budget unless it was a lot of donations, but...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Also part of a F2P model has to look at does it have a sub based version to run along side it. And is that sub worth it.
This is where STO fails terribly. At least GW and GW2 doesn't try to get suckers -- I mean subs to pay monthly when it's not worth it. For 15 per month, what can subs do here that a free player can't? Basically, on month number 1... they get 5 dollars worth of points. Gee. they may as well paid 5 dollars for the points and save 10 dollars for that.
The thing is, no F2P model I know of is both capable of drawing F2Pers in, making them feel satisfied (STO) and encouraging people to subscribe by offering perks. (SWTOR)
However, SWTOR's method of encouraging subscription is as close to "take a gun and point it at your head, demanding your subscription" as any game will ever be - unless some major law changes take place, allowing them to do just that. :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
The thing is, no F2P model I know of is both capable of drawing F2Pers in, making them feel satisfied (STO) and encouraging people to subscribe by offering perks. (SWTOR)
However, SWTOR's method of encouraging subscription is as close to "take a gun and point it at your head, demanding your subscription" as any game will ever be - unless some major law changes take place, allowing them to do just that. :P
Actually, things over preferred aren't really that needed for the game tbh. Quickbars? You get 4 and not 6. However, until the F2P conversion 4 was the most bars allowed anyhow. I sub and never used 5 or 6 because I was already used to 4.
The crafting? Preferred gets 2. So choice comes of buy the extra one or buy stuff off GTN for it or have an alt handle it. But if you sub one month to unlock the third and go back to preferred, you still keep the three.
The weekly Warzones and Ops? Unless you play a lot, it won't bother you. And if you play that much, you should sub.
The weekly space missions? Okay, now that one is actually a feature. It's a threat to make people play their crappy rail space missions.
Is their model the best? No. It's one of the worst two I've encountered. Second being this one here. Better ones I encountered are out there.
Most people point to LOTRO having a better F2P setup. I barely played it so I don't use it as the torch to bear but that's the one you find people putting up on independent forums. Have you seen a single post on an independent forum that points to STO or TOR? I haven't.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
I was always under the impression that the only reason why there are gold members and silver members in STO is that STO had lifetime subscriptions before the F2P conversion. Without the lifetime subscription, there would be no gold members or silver members just F2Pers. This is proving by how little benefit subscribers have over F2Pers and Neverwinter being a completely F2P game from the start. So STO wants the players to be F2Pers while SWTOR wants everyone to be subscribers with a Cash Shop. If SWTOR added a Cash Shop while everyone was subscribed, then people would be claiming that EA and Bioware are too greedy.
And when I say both games have issues and you can't even admit to one thing wrong with STO, that is the ultimate in bias.
And I have named a few in this thread better than both games. And they are normally the ones people point at to say that's how F2P should be done. Nobody outside this board points to STO and nobody outside TOR's board points to TOR.
Every game has issues. Perhaps I am biased. But here's the kicker: you want to group STO and SWTORs F2P models in the same boat, and it is not even close. Said boat would tip over. STO model is generous, does not lock you out of content and only charges you for fluff. SWTOR is a glorified free trial that actively tries to railroad you into a sub.
The only other games I saw you mention were LOTRO and DCUO. Neither has a better F2P model IMO. STO still wins.
Lockboxes: they are not forced into your inventory. I can count on one hand the times I have had a lockbox in my inventory, and that was because I misclicked. You don't have to pick those up.
Don't worry about snoggy's welfare. He's a big boy. I doubt he would care much if I did call him a Cryptic lover. I have read his posts before I started posting myself, his opinions are known to me. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't. But he is no fanboy. He actually seems to be giving the fair and balanced perspective in this matter that you claim.
Enjoy SWTOR, I am truly glad you enjoy it believe it or not. But don't even attempt to put the STO and SWTOR F2P model on the same level. Huge discrepancy in those.
PS: Openly hostile attitude and snarky remarks do not make you sound clever or win an argument with a stranger over the internet. They only serve to further reveal bias and immaturity. At least that is what the voices in my head tell me.
I was always under the impression that the only reason why there are gold members and silver members in STO is that STO had lifetime subscriptions before the F2P conversion. Without the lifetime subscription, there would be no gold members or silver members just F2Pers. This is proving by how little benefit subscribers have over F2Pers and Neverwinter being a completely F2P game from the start. So STO wants the players to be F2Pers while SWTOR wants everyone to be subscribers with a Cash Shop. If SWTOR added a Cash Shop while everyone was subscribed, then people would be claiming that EA and Bioware are too greedy.
THIS.
Starkaos gets it.
The types of accounts here should be LTS, F2P, Former Subs, and Suckaaaaaaaaas
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Every game has issues. Perhaps I am biased. But here's the kicker: you want to group STO and SWTORs F2P models in the same boat, and it is not even close. Said boat would tip over. STO model is generous, does not lock you out of content and only charges you for fluff. SWTOR is a glorified free trial that actively tries to railroad you into a sub.
The only other games I saw you mention were LOTRO and DCUO. Neither has a better F2P model IMO. STO still wins.
Lockboxes: they are not forced into your inventory. I can count on one hand the times I have had a lockbox in my inventory, and that was because I misclicked. You don't have to pick those up.
PS: Don't worry about snoggy's welfare. He's a big boy. I doubt he would care much if I did call him a Cryptic lover. I have read his posts before I started posting myself, his opinions are known to me. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't. But he is no fanboy. He actually seems to be giving the fair and balanced perspective in this matter that you claim.
Enjoy SWTOR, I am truly glad you enjoy it believe it or not. But don't even attempt to put the STO and SWTOR F2P model on the same level. Huge discrepancy in those.
Link to an independent site that says STO is the gold standard of F2P model.
People use LOTRO on sites for games to say "Go look at LOTRO and how Turbine did it" on sites all over the place. I barely played it so that's not me just saying it. I have yet to find that one person point and say "Go see how STO and Cryptic set it up."
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Link to an independent site that says STO is the gold standard of F2P model.
People use LOTRO on sites for games to say "Go look at LOTRO and how Turbine did it" on sites all over the place. I barely played it so that's not me just saying it. I have yet to find that one person point and say "Go see how STO and Cryptic set it up."
"People I know said this and that over there so it is a fact!" Nope, it's just more opinion. My opinion is that STO/CO has the best. Reasonable people may disagree. Reasonable people will NOT say that STO and SWTOR have equally operating F2p models.
Hypocrisy and misdirection are not good ways to make a point.
And here ya go: Go see how STO and Cryptic set it up. They done did good!
I have been a free player on SWTOR and STO and I think the STO F2P setup is infinitely better IMHO. Also most of the community in SWTOR is, well what I want to put here would get me banned.
I experienced what you are talking about so far ever second of game play for two days straight. As I said in the original post, STO's community is way better. I literally asked the same question over and over until one person finally responded. This was my question, "where the frak is master "so and so". This person responded because I said frak. This person completly ignored my question and said, ha wrong universe. which begs the question, what do you like better, BSG viper, or X wing. I laughed for the next 20 minutes as what looked like the entire zone began debating about what is better. All because I said frak. What is it? Why is it different or seem different at least? Do Star Wars fans feel jaded? Star Trek has had bad films but I have never felt from this fan base what I feel from that fan base.
I can speculate... my guess is, Star Trek, in true Trek form changed lives. Mainly TOS. Gene's necessity to tackle real life issues every week and challenge the status quo, such as making a woman first officer or placing a black woman on the bridge. People react in positive ways to that kind of leadership. Trek changed lives, Star Wars entertained lives. I am a fan of both. Ever since I found that VHS tape labeled return of the jedi in my dads box I was a fan. But I have to admit, as a fan of both, Trek has changed my life. not Star Wars.
So getting back on point here, STWOR, I am trying to like it but STO is the sh**. seriously everyone
You realize, of course, that there's no point in trying to show someone who chose the handle "darthstormstrike" in an arena with absolutely no Star Wars games or references whatsoever that his chosen fandom isn't the absolute shiny best evarrrrr!!!1!!11!!eleventyone!!
His "facts" have been shown to be inaccurate; his best counterarguments are semantic at best. His every assertion has been thoroughly disproved, with actual evidence. He isn't interested in that. I'd say he was trolling, but most trolls are more clever than this.
"People I know said this and that over there so it is a fact!" Nope, it's just more opinion. My opinion is that STO/CO has the best. Reasonable people may disagree. Reasonable people will NOT say that STO and SWTOR have equally operating F2p models.
Hypocrisy and misdirection are not good ways to make a point.
When they both have pluses and minuses... and those pluses and minuses in my eyes are equal and don't measure up to others, then yes I can say they are equally. They are not gearing towards the same thing in the end though. Their vision for the model is different. You seem to think from only a single narrow view.
Even the one praising post I found outside this site on some guy's blog that has him sitting in a Kirk captain's chair while wearing his TOS shirt (obvious what we can call the guy), he even said "If I wasn't an LTS, I wouldn't pay 15 a month anymore for this game since there is no real value to it anymore." He's a Trekkie and even he saw some flaws in the STO system that you are too blind to see.
TOR is trying their hardest to keep a "value" to subs so subs will remain is their obvious goal. If their goal was the same as Cryptic's in what they want out of it with players, then BW would be way off the mark. They had 2 million subs at launch and lost 75% of them. They are hoping it will rise again. It won't go back to those numbers though.
But were you here when this game was sub only? Do you know WHY it went F2P? Do you know the CONCEPT behind it? STO was my third Cryptic game.
(I am not touching NW and when I heard it has a pay real money for barber shop that helped justify that decision). I said that about NW to show it would have been the fourth Cryptic game. I was in the beta of the very first one too. Or may be I can say I was in four Cryptic games. One of those was an expansion but also was a stand-alone game that didn't require owning the first. So the expansion can be called just a game itself. But to be honest, the first was the best one they did. And the F2P model it had was better too. There's a long story on why it is no longer around. But if you've been around Cryptic since then, you already know the story.
So to say one is great and the other is not can only be done if you are biased. Better ones exist out there over both TOR and STO.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
You realize, of course, that there's no point in trying to show someone who chose the handle "darthstormstrike" in an arena with absolutely no Star Wars games or references whatsoever that his chosen fandom isn't the absolute shiny best evarrrrr!!!1!!11!!eleventyone!!
His "facts" have been shown to be inaccurate; his best counterarguments are semantic at best. His every assertion has been thoroughly disproved, with actual evidence. He isn't interested in that. I'd say he was trolling, but most trolls are more clever than this.
He is worthy of shrouding, so shroud I have.
I keep saying it's not the best. You can't read?
All evidence as you called it is strictly opinion. Not evidence.
So when one can't handle the truth, he sticks his head in the sand.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Honestly, I am a bit dissapointed with the TOR ground combat.
Its not the mechanics, its just one basic thing. Enemies are too strong, fights take too long.
A vulcan scientist with a rifle or an elf rogue with two steel daggers can cut trough dozens of enemies while a Sith lord with two laser swords keeps chopping the same target?
I mean....come on! If anything, a Sith, even a weak one, should be going trough "freedom fighter militia" with 1-2 hits!
It just ruins the whole "lightsaber" thing when its reduced to the efficiency of a bad club.
And Tor space combat...yeah. Bad. Tie Fighter was way better in the nineties.
The restrictive Free to play model : It makes PWE look downright altruistic. You dont need to buy your romulan marks in the cstore. EA leaves its foul mark on ToR.
Honestly... the only good thing I found in TOR was "its Star Wars" , but that does not cut it. If I want Star Wars, I'm better off playing Kotor 1 or 2.
With a little bit easier ground combat, and a better play model, ToR could have been dramatically improved. But EA strikes again.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Enemies too strong? In TOR? What? They are easy. I have a tougher time with enemies here when I set my difficulty on high. TOR doesn't have that feature. That's one point for STO btw.
Did you try to solo a H4 or something?
Or poorly equipped?
The enemies are care bear soft in TOR. No challenge at all.
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"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
So when one can't handle the truth, he sticks his head in the sand.
I am talking about F2P models, not subs. You can't read?
My narrow view is one of a free to play gamer that refuses to sub to a game anymore and prefers to purchase stuff piecemeal. I also have admitted bias and disdain for EA. Yet I still purchased SWTOR on day one and played for a month. Uninstall. Regret.
In my OPINION, STO is the better OVERALL game and wins the F2P model battle easily. NOT TALKING ABOUT SUBS.
I hope the confusion you seem to have is cleared. And keep the hostile tone to other posters, it helps I hear.
BTW: All evidence you have pointed to is opinion. Not evidence.
Go on plugging SWTOR in the STO forums. I hope you get some nice epic lewts out of the deal for your little campaign. I am tired of this, you win 'Darth'. +50 internet points.
I am talking about F2P models, not subs. You can't read?
My narrow view is one of a free to play gamer that refuses to sub to a game anymore and prefers to purchase stuff piecemeal. I also have admitted bias and disdain for EA. Yet I still purchased SWTOR on day one and played for a month. Uninstall. Regret.
In my OPINION, STO is the better OVERALL game and wins the F2P model battle easily. NOT TALKING ABOUT SUBS.
I hope the confusion you seem to have is cleared. And keep the hostile tone to other posters, it helps I hear.
BTW: All evidence you have pointed to is opinion. Not evidence.
Go on plugging SWTOR in the STO forums. I hope you get some nice epic lewts out of the deal for your little campaign. I am tired of this, you win 'Darth'. +50 internet points.
The games appeal to different tastes. But if someone offered me the chance to transfer my LTS to SWTOR, I'd take it in an instant.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Comments
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
I could accept that. It seems that publishers and folks that set the price points, don't take into account the economic climate in the first place. If you have a common sense and up front sub price, people will be inclined to play. There's no need to play the "free to play" shell game with people.
Unfortunately, you have what we have now. SWTOR being restrictive, and STO just being a mess.
Some will call me disgruntled because I'm a life subber since Season 1 here, but I fought the STO F2P transition, and will always dislike how it killed crafting, added those idiotic lockboxes, and led to the TRIBBLE up of the game economy with Dilithium. Add in the time gated content, ridiculous grind, and bugs and downtime, you have a mess. I return from time to time to STO simply because I'm a Trek fan, and I do like many things about LoR even though the game as a whole is still messed up.
SWTOR I get annoyed with because of their high cartel market prices and the fact that cartel packs have just as terrible drops as lockboxes here, but at least it's playable, I enjoy the warzone PvP there, and I am not taxed with another currency when companion crafting.
Fed: Astarsha, level 60 tactical officer
KDF: K'tana level 54 tactical officer
STOAlliance Dilomat
I did play SWtOR as a free player for a bit and I didn't like how free players get less EXP for missions and killing things etc. 5% less EXP, I think.
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
So here's the thing right. It's obvious I prefer STO to SWTOR. I'm here playing STO. So there's that. But ground combat?
Not only is SWTOR better at the ground combat, every other cryptic game is better at ground combat. Champions Online is an amazing ground combat experience. So I don't know. I just wouldn't really tout STO's ground combat or it's crafting.
Overall the game is a ton of fun and one I find myself gladly playing. But some bits of it fall maddeningly short.
Least that's my take on it.
Exactly. And he claimed *I* was the fanboi here when I point out the flaws in both games. Be careful, Snog. He will call you a fanboi now too. lol
I haven't touch NW, but all the other games Cryptic did. Started with them in CoH beta, to CO, to STO. And ground here is the bottom of the three.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Theres ya quote.Yeah, I paraphrased you, but there it is. And your feelings show in your other posts. I can read between the lines. jonsills said it best: 'your prejudice is showing'. You can claim to be trying to stay fair and balanced, but saying that does not make it so.
Can you name a MMO with a better F2P model? I doubt it. But I am curious. At any rate, that ALSO would be an opinion. (C wut I did thar?) And I most certainly stand by the statement that this games model is the gold standard. I am no stranger to F2P MMOs and this along with Champions remain the best I have played in that regard.
It's no news that opinions are like buttholes. Pot and kettle sir.
Also: yep, I personally like the ground combat here. I dislike SWTOR combat because it is just WoW all over again. I left that game years ago and expected better from SW and Bioware. Nowadays I get kinda bored with that style of game mechanic and I like that STO has a more action-oriented approach. I am well aware it is not many peoples favorite part of the game, but I like it. Crafting here is useless though, I grant that.
And here you claimed I said I called "all F2P TRIBBLE". So what you quoted what I said and what you claimed I said are 2 different things. So try again.
What I said in the quote you brought up is both games are bottom of the barrel TRIBBLE compared to other F2P games out there.
You can add things to what I said and argue against those statements but that just means you are talking to yourself. You can get therapy for that btw.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
And when I say both games have issues and you can't even admit to one thing wrong with STO, that is the ultimate in bias.
And I have named a few in this thread better than both games. And they are normally the ones people point at to say that's how F2P should be done. Nobody outside this board points to STO and nobody outside TOR's board points to TOR.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
This is where STO fails terribly. At least GW and GW2 doesn't try to get suckers -- I mean subs to pay monthly when it's not worth it. For 15 per month, what can subs do here that a free player can't? Basically, on month number 1... they get 5 dollars worth of points. Gee. they may as well paid 5 dollars for the points and save 10 dollars for that.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Meh, you could probably keep a good MMO running simply on donations. (see SWGEmu and similar SWG emulator projects)
True, you wouldn't have much of a development budget unless it was a lot of donations, but...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
The thing is, no F2P model I know of is both capable of drawing F2Pers in, making them feel satisfied (STO) and encouraging people to subscribe by offering perks. (SWTOR)
However, SWTOR's method of encouraging subscription is as close to "take a gun and point it at your head, demanding your subscription" as any game will ever be - unless some major law changes take place, allowing them to do just that. :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Actually, things over preferred aren't really that needed for the game tbh. Quickbars? You get 4 and not 6. However, until the F2P conversion 4 was the most bars allowed anyhow. I sub and never used 5 or 6 because I was already used to 4.
The crafting? Preferred gets 2. So choice comes of buy the extra one or buy stuff off GTN for it or have an alt handle it. But if you sub one month to unlock the third and go back to preferred, you still keep the three.
The weekly Warzones and Ops? Unless you play a lot, it won't bother you. And if you play that much, you should sub.
The weekly space missions? Okay, now that one is actually a feature. It's a threat to make people play their crappy rail space missions.
Is their model the best? No. It's one of the worst two I've encountered. Second being this one here. Better ones I encountered are out there.
Most people point to LOTRO having a better F2P setup. I barely played it so I don't use it as the torch to bear but that's the one you find people putting up on independent forums. Have you seen a single post on an independent forum that points to STO or TOR? I haven't.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Every game has issues. Perhaps I am biased. But here's the kicker: you want to group STO and SWTORs F2P models in the same boat, and it is not even close. Said boat would tip over. STO model is generous, does not lock you out of content and only charges you for fluff. SWTOR is a glorified free trial that actively tries to railroad you into a sub.
The only other games I saw you mention were LOTRO and DCUO. Neither has a better F2P model IMO. STO still wins.
Lockboxes: they are not forced into your inventory. I can count on one hand the times I have had a lockbox in my inventory, and that was because I misclicked. You don't have to pick those up.
Don't worry about snoggy's welfare. He's a big boy. I doubt he would care much if I did call him a Cryptic lover. I have read his posts before I started posting myself, his opinions are known to me. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't. But he is no fanboy. He actually seems to be giving the fair and balanced perspective in this matter that you claim.
Enjoy SWTOR, I am truly glad you enjoy it believe it or not. But don't even attempt to put the STO and SWTOR F2P model on the same level. Huge discrepancy in those.
PS: Openly hostile attitude and snarky remarks do not make you sound clever or win an argument with a stranger over the internet. They only serve to further reveal bias and immaturity. At least that is what the voices in my head tell me.
THIS.
Starkaos gets it.
The types of accounts here should be LTS, F2P, Former Subs, and Suckaaaaaaaaas
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Link to an independent site that says STO is the gold standard of F2P model.
People use LOTRO on sites for games to say "Go look at LOTRO and how Turbine did it" on sites all over the place. I barely played it so that's not me just saying it. I have yet to find that one person point and say "Go see how STO and Cryptic set it up."
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
"People I know said this and that over there so it is a fact!" Nope, it's just more opinion. My opinion is that STO/CO has the best. Reasonable people may disagree. Reasonable people will NOT say that STO and SWTOR have equally operating F2p models.
Hypocrisy and misdirection are not good ways to make a point.
And here ya go: Go see how STO and Cryptic set it up. They done did good!
I experienced what you are talking about so far ever second of game play for two days straight. As I said in the original post, STO's community is way better. I literally asked the same question over and over until one person finally responded. This was my question, "where the frak is master "so and so". This person responded because I said frak. This person completly ignored my question and said, ha wrong universe. which begs the question, what do you like better, BSG viper, or X wing. I laughed for the next 20 minutes as what looked like the entire zone began debating about what is better. All because I said frak. What is it? Why is it different or seem different at least? Do Star Wars fans feel jaded? Star Trek has had bad films but I have never felt from this fan base what I feel from that fan base.
I can speculate... my guess is, Star Trek, in true Trek form changed lives. Mainly TOS. Gene's necessity to tackle real life issues every week and challenge the status quo, such as making a woman first officer or placing a black woman on the bridge. People react in positive ways to that kind of leadership. Trek changed lives, Star Wars entertained lives. I am a fan of both. Ever since I found that VHS tape labeled return of the jedi in my dads box I was a fan. But I have to admit, as a fan of both, Trek has changed my life. not Star Wars.
So getting back on point here, STWOR, I am trying to like it but STO is the sh**. seriously everyone
His "facts" have been shown to be inaccurate; his best counterarguments are semantic at best. His every assertion has been thoroughly disproved, with actual evidence. He isn't interested in that. I'd say he was trolling, but most trolls are more clever than this.
He is worthy of shrouding, so shroud I have.
When they both have pluses and minuses... and those pluses and minuses in my eyes are equal and don't measure up to others, then yes I can say they are equally. They are not gearing towards the same thing in the end though. Their vision for the model is different. You seem to think from only a single narrow view.
Even the one praising post I found outside this site on some guy's blog that has him sitting in a Kirk captain's chair while wearing his TOS shirt (obvious what we can call the guy), he even said "If I wasn't an LTS, I wouldn't pay 15 a month anymore for this game since there is no real value to it anymore." He's a Trekkie and even he saw some flaws in the STO system that you are too blind to see.
TOR is trying their hardest to keep a "value" to subs so subs will remain is their obvious goal. If their goal was the same as Cryptic's in what they want out of it with players, then BW would be way off the mark. They had 2 million subs at launch and lost 75% of them. They are hoping it will rise again. It won't go back to those numbers though.
But were you here when this game was sub only? Do you know WHY it went F2P? Do you know the CONCEPT behind it? STO was my third Cryptic game.
(I am not touching NW and when I heard it has a pay real money for barber shop that helped justify that decision). I said that about NW to show it would have been the fourth Cryptic game. I was in the beta of the very first one too. Or may be I can say I was in four Cryptic games. One of those was an expansion but also was a stand-alone game that didn't require owning the first. So the expansion can be called just a game itself. But to be honest, the first was the best one they did. And the F2P model it had was better too. There's a long story on why it is no longer around. But if you've been around Cryptic since then, you already know the story.
So to say one is great and the other is not can only be done if you are biased. Better ones exist out there over both TOR and STO.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
I keep saying it's not the best. You can't read?
All evidence as you called it is strictly opinion. Not evidence.
So when one can't handle the truth, he sticks his head in the sand.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Its not the mechanics, its just one basic thing. Enemies are too strong, fights take too long.
A vulcan scientist with a rifle or an elf rogue with two steel daggers can cut trough dozens of enemies while a Sith lord with two laser swords keeps chopping the same target?
I mean....come on! If anything, a Sith, even a weak one, should be going trough "freedom fighter militia" with 1-2 hits!
It just ruins the whole "lightsaber" thing when its reduced to the efficiency of a bad club.
And Tor space combat...yeah. Bad. Tie Fighter was way better in the nineties.
The restrictive Free to play model : It makes PWE look downright altruistic. You dont need to buy your romulan marks in the cstore. EA leaves its foul mark on ToR.
Honestly... the only good thing I found in TOR was "its Star Wars" , but that does not cut it. If I want Star Wars, I'm better off playing Kotor 1 or 2.
With a little bit easier ground combat, and a better play model, ToR could have been dramatically improved. But EA strikes again.
Did you try to solo a H4 or something?
Or poorly equipped?
The enemies are care bear soft in TOR. No challenge at all.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
And you should not be dying at all outside elite stfs....
Anyway, compare ToR to Kotor or Tie Fighter. Both do better in ground or space combat respectivly.
I am talking about F2P models, not subs. You can't read?
My narrow view is one of a free to play gamer that refuses to sub to a game anymore and prefers to purchase stuff piecemeal. I also have admitted bias and disdain for EA. Yet I still purchased SWTOR on day one and played for a month. Uninstall. Regret.
In my OPINION, STO is the better OVERALL game and wins the F2P model battle easily. NOT TALKING ABOUT SUBS.
I hope the confusion you seem to have is cleared. And keep the hostile tone to other posters, it helps I hear.
BTW: All evidence you have pointed to is opinion. Not evidence.
Go on plugging SWTOR in the STO forums. I hope you get some nice epic lewts out of the deal for your little campaign. I am tired of this, you win 'Darth'. +50 internet points.
I didn't say problems as in dying. I mean it as in TOR enemies are too easy. This game is more of a welcome challenge in difficulty of enemies.
I even go AFK while in an area with +2 or +3 mobs in TOR to come back from the bathroom to see dead bodies on the floor from my companion alone.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
First line I stopped. F2P when there are a status called "Sub" and "Preferred" are part of the "model". Or they wouldn't be mentioned on pages like http://sto.perfectworld.com/about/freetoplay/features-matrix
And I didn't start the thread. But notice how many "THIS" type posts I got from my first one in the thread.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution