The D'Deridex Warbird should outperform a Galaxy Class in terms of turn rate. I don't understand why cryptic made this beautiful ship turn like a freaking Carrier.
RCS will not help you much either. Because a few more percent of nothing is still nothing...
I don't understand the way they set up the Romulan Ships in the first place. I don't really understand why all romulan ships have +10 weapons +5 engines....
Turn Rate of the D'Deridex should be at least 6.5 - 7. The Commander BO should be Universal so you can make it actually a decent Science Ship and not a useless Cruiser. But that would be my personal preference....
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What's wrong with the Ha'feh Assault Warbird, or the Ha'nom Guardian Warbird, or the Mogai Heavy Warbird Retrofit, or the Dhelan Warbird Retrofit, or the T'varo Light Warbird Retrofit?
Heck, if for some reason none of those count, there's also the Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser with it's Commander Universal slot.
Wrong tier. This is level 30, not 40. at 40 the problem goes away.
Its just ridiculous that a tac or sci player gets stuck with what is obviously an engineer ship for a quarter of their leveling process.
By the time I got there, I had all my cannon skills/boffs set up, all the stuff I needed for turn rate, etc... and i get a ship that is completely incompatible with what I have chosen for skills/boffs up til then. The mogai worked, but the DD sorta screwed me entirely. I ended up with a cannon loaded ship that spent the entire battle shooting behind itself with a couple turrets. Not even evasive could get me turned around.
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Turn Rate of the D'Deridex should be at least 6.5 - 7. The Commander BO should be Universal so you can make it actually a decent Science Ship and not a useless Cruiser. But that would be my personal preference....
That ship you would prefer? Already exists. You just need to get it out of a lockbox.
Wrong tier. This is level 30, not 40. at 40 the problem goes away.
Its just ridiculous that a tac or sci player gets stuck with what is obviously an engineer ship for a quarter of their leveling process.
By the time I got there, I had all my cannon skills/boffs set up, all the stuff I needed for turn rate, etc... and i get a ship that is completely incompatible with what I have chosen for skills/boffs up til then. The mogai worked, but the DD sorta screwed me entirely. I ended up with a cannon loaded ship that spent the entire battle shooting behind itself with a couple turrets. Not even evasive could get me turned around.
Keep using the Tier 3 Mogai. It's perfectly playable.
EDIT:@doctorstegi: The tier 5 version is pretty universal, it has at least a Lt.Comm of every career.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
No it doesn't its not a romulan ship and sure does not have Singularity Core to use or its abilities. On top of that the Lockbox ships look like TRIBBLE who ever designed these ships needs to get their eyes checked.
I would like to fly a D'Deridex Warbird but the way it looks right now I won't touch it. I m fairly disappointed with most romulan ships right now since they are all set up the same way with the same bonus powers unless you get a Tier 5 Starbase Fleet ship which offers 1 ship + to Aux.
No point of manking a Romulan Science Captain really. As Klingon you have at least the option to fly a Science Vessel or a Bird of Prey with universal Bridge Officer Slots as Romulan well you don't.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
I have plenty of fun in all the cruisers I play and I have played most. While I prefer the Ha'apax to the DD, that has more to do with the looks and versatility than the .5 more turn rate. I fail to see how a 1 point increase would make it more fun? I can't tell the difference in .5 so not sure how another .5 will either.
Pointing your nose at your target in a cruiser is not how they should be played or made to be played. Can it be done sure but it should be hard as hell and you should have to use all the tricks in the book.
Every ship of every faction in this game has its strength and weakness. You should play to your strength while covering your weakness. Adjust your play style to fit the ship and layout your using. This game would become real boring if you could play the same way in every ship.
Romulan ships have a battle cloak for a reason if your not using it then your not using one of your strengths. If you don't like that style of game play then maybe its not your cup of tea.
The problem for me has been that escorts have gotten out of control using cannons. Buff beam weapons then your turn rate becomes less of an issue. Leave turn rates alone.
Wrong tier. This is level 30, not 40. at 40 the problem goes away.
Umm, what? At level 30, the problem doesn't exist.
There are no level 30 ships with a commander engineering, so there's no reason there would be any ships with commander science or commander lieutenant either.
Its just ridiculous that a tac or sci player gets stuck with what is obviously an engineer ship for a quarter of their leveling process.
Actually, it's only 20% of the leveling process. Or about 8-24 hours of space game play, depending on your rate of progression.
Not to mention, this is newly released content, there's only 1 ship at every rank below 40 because they're focusing on end-game content. And rightly so, after all, you're going to spend about 99% of your time at rank 40+. They may add lower tier ships in the future (just as they did with the Klingons) but for now, this makes sense.
By the time I got there, I had all my cannon skills/boffs set up, all the stuff I needed for turn rate, etc... and i get a ship that is completely incompatible with what I have chosen for skills/boffs up til then. The mogai worked, but the DD sorta screwed me entirely. I ended up with a cannon loaded ship that spent the entire battle shooting behind itself with a couple turrets. Not even evasive could get me turned around.
Foresight is important. I always look at my entire progression to understand what I need and when.
Also, changing your BOff skills isn't really that big of a deal. You can buy LTC, LT, and EN skills for 1 BO for less than 500EC. And you don't even lose expertise.
The problem for me has been that escorts have gotten out of control using cannons. Buff beam weapons then your turn rate becomes less of an issue. Leave turn rates alone.
I was with you up until this, vinsinar.
This embodies everything that is wrong with the people who think the issue with turn rate is about being able to deal more damage.
Wrong wrong wrong.
Even if you buff beams weapons to be so powerful that they're basically insta-win weapons and if you don't run an 8 beam broadside you're just fodder, you aren't addressing the problem created by low turn rates.
The problem with low turn rates is that it's not fun to spend a lot of time trying to point your ship at your next objective. That has nothing to do with weapon damage, and buffing weapon damage or certain builds won't help fix the problem.
Case in point, how long are you going to fly a ship that can totally dominate any other ship in PvP with ease, but it takes you 2 minutes to make a 180 degree turn? You'll probably fly it exactly 1 time, realize that the only way to get anywhere is to transwarp, and then head back to your factions hub to change to a different ship.
Now I'm not saying that the Big D suffers from this issue. What I am saying is, sufficiently low turn rates aren't fixed by buffing something other than turn rate, because the problem isn't something other than turn rate, the problem is the turn rate.
I'm actually pretty happy with my T5 D'deridex and I can't wait until I get my Fleet version. I put the tachyokinetic converter on it, an engine with a turn buff, RCS, and with skills it registers a turn rate of 14 under power, when I cloak it registers as 37. It can turn so fast under cloak that when I do a 180 inertia keeps me moving backward for a few moments before it starts moving forward again.
Umm, what? At level 30, the problem doesn't exist.
There are no level 30 ships with a commander engineering, so there's no reason there would be any ships with commander science or commander lieutenant either.
Every lvl 30 ship has one commander level Boff. The basic D'Deridex is available at lvl 30 as a Tier 4 ship, with a commander Eng.
Also, changing your BOff skills isn't really that big of a deal. You can buy LTC, LT, and EN skills for 1 BO for less than 500EC. And you don't even lose expertise.
If you did put expertise in the previous abilities, you lose it by getting a new ability.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
I couldn't deal with the D'Derbrick. I'm going through the commander rank with my old Vandal Destroyer. It's holding up surprisingly well, despite being a tier behind.
And just to those saying that I want a hard hitter than can turn like an escort......HELL no I don't.
Considering there have been numerous posters in this thread, and in every other thread about the D'Deridex's turn rate for the past three weeks, listing in great detail exactly how high the D'Deridex's turn rate can go (with and without cloak) and how it's done, to which you have exactly zero response save "those should be nerfed" and/or "I shouldn't have to do that", yeah I'm going to go with that being exactly what you want.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
Considering there have been numerous posters in this thread, and in every other thread about the D'Deridex's turn rate for the past three weeks, listing in great detail exactly how high the D'Deridex's turn rate can go (with and without cloak) and how it's done, to which you have exactly zero response save "those should be nerfed" and/or "I shouldn't have to do that", yeah I'm going to go with that being exactly what you want.
Actually That was before I found out about the Tachyokenetic (sp?) console. As I said in my original post this wasn't JUST meant to be about a turn rate increase, but also builds that help increase the turn rate without heavy amounts of stacking RCS consoles.
I've NEVER said anything should be nerfed, I did however in response to a couple of posts say that if a trade off needed to be made for a slight increase in turn rate that reducing the turn rate buff from cloaking might be an option. That right there is enough to prove I'm not looking for some huge beast that can turn on a dime.
If you wade through all the pages of canon this and canon that there is alot of useful information in here that some people might not know.
I saved up the ec to get the Helmsman trait, a vr RCS, and instead of just selling my 30 kets from the legacy pack used those and a few more to get that tachyokinetic console. All of that info came from this thread so it is serving it's purpose just fine. It's a damn beautiful ship, but it just wasn't fun to fly because it took so much to turn. My biggest thing with the turn rate was two fold, 1) not fun because turn was too low/wide 2) Elachi are going to be around to stay and their subspace jump was annoyingly difficult to deal with because of the excessively slow base turn.
Unless this was a recent change, this has never been my experience. Replacing a BOff skill for me has refunded my expertise in the past.
I actually don't remember it being otherwise than loosing the spent expertise, for over a year. It's actually happened to me to run out of expertise when testing on Tribble.
My biggest thing with the turn rate was two fold, 1) not fun because turn was too low/wide 2) Elachi are going to be around to stay and their subspace jump was annoyingly difficult to deal with because of the excessively slow base turn.
What do you mean by the 2nd point? It seemed to me like they were pretty much done with.
As far as I can tell, you can only meet them by replaying missions. Maybe there's one space event with them, not entirely sure about that.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
I don't know what everyone is complaining about. My double 'D, with 2 rcs consoles and some hyper-impulse engines with a turn rate modifier, pulls 10.9 degrees per second at max thrusters, about the same as my fed character's Odyssey. In relative terms, yeah it handles like a shopping cart with 4 busted wheels, but it's by no means unplayable.
...I have had no problems handling her. The low base turn rate means you can't run an all DHC setup, sure, but you can run a single cannon or two for a little more broadside for the cannons, and when you need to set up an attack run, the Battle Cloak gives you a lot of turn rate so long as you aren't taking heavy fire at the same time (popping Haz Emitters or Aux to SIF 3 lets you harden your hull to shrug off light weapon fire), while also giving you a potentially significant decloak damage buff.
In The Next Generation, season 5, episode 11, Unification II, a Warbird decloaks and destroys the "Vulcan" transports. My point is, for anyone who has seen that scene, the warbird can turn quite fast. I'm not saying it should turn quite that fast in the game, but its agility is good. That's canon.
And if you look at its hull, its not massive. It looks massive, but its actually just an empty structure. A Warbird has far less mass and weight than a galaxy class which is much more massive despite having a slightly smaller profile. 80% of the D'deridex is open space.
I understand the balance, but it should be +1. Just my two cents.
The user formerly known as Khern!
I hate the fact Perfect World force-joined STO and PW accounts...
In The Next Generation, season 5, episode 11, Unification II, a Warbird decloaks and destroys the "Vulcan" transports. My point is, for anyone who has seen that scene, the warbird can turn quite fast. I'm not saying it should turn quite that fast in the game, but its agility is good.
And if you look at its hull, its not massive. It looks massive, but its actually just an empty structure. A Warbird has far less mass and weight than a galaxy class which is much more massive despite having a slightly smaller profile. 80% of the D'deridex is open space.
I understand the balance, but it should be +1. Just my two cents.
You will see that the D'deridex was indeed just that ridiculously massive, and that due to the huge size, it still has a large amount of mass in total.
Then back to a D'deridex decloaking, turning like a boss and killing transports? That's easily accomplished by hitting Evasive Maneuvers. You never see a D'deridex turn quickly constantly, just in short bursts, like the Galaxy. In all honesty, the only ships you see in the show being nimble constantly are BoPs and the Defiant. Everything else is a little sluggish, but moves like a boss in short bursts.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Honestly after playing around with this thing... the turn isn't near as bad as it seems... cause the inertia values are fantastic.
It reminds me a lot of the Klingon Vorcha. Which slides on its back side in the same way.
Honestly forget about what the number is on paper... and fly this thing for awhile. Very usable... for pve its 100% fine... for pvp I would also say its 100% fine. As a cloaking support ship that can put out some hurt with a bit of CC it fits the bill. I see no reason to complain... it does what it should do and it does it extremely well.
With the layout it has... look into things like aux to damp EPTE... a RCS or 2... and you will find it very acceptable.
To test the extreme I loaded it with some high aux damp... a couple RCS and EPTE... and I had it turning over 20... with almost perfect uptime on that.
Considering all the toys it has and the battle cloak... its very much fine as it is right now.
The turn rate on the 'dex is fine to me, though then again I'm used to the Vo'Quv and Odyssey, so this is nothing really new. What baffles me on it though is the collision model.
So stuff can pass through the wings, apparently, but if I hit another ship head-on I stop dead in my tracks rather than bouncing off and sliding to the side like on other ships? The latter is particularly annoying when fighting swarms of Elachi, who seem to have developed the tactic of ramming me with multiple ships so I can't move, then having one or two teleport behind me.
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
You will see that the D'deridex was indeed just that ridiculously massive, and that due to the huge size, it still has a large amount of mass in total.
Well, memory alpha says;
Technical Data:
"The D'deridex-class warbird was classified as a battle cruiser by Starfleet. Using a forced quantum singularity as a power source and the latest in Romulan cloaking technology, the D'deridex was not only one of the most advanced vessels in the Romulan Star Empire, but also in the Alpha Quadrant. These warbirds were roughly twice as long as a Federation Galaxy-class starship with a lower overall maximum speed. "
Size is not the same as mass. Mass isn't mentioned. So where does "it is ridiculusly massive" conclusion come from? It says most advanced, large, but not heavy or massive.
Physical Arangement:
"The outboard plan of the warbird's design incorporated a unique, horizontally split "shell" hull design, with a prominent forward section. The bulk of the ship's overall size was incorporated in the open-shell, which resembled two separate "wings" that met at either side at the warp nacelles, at the "tail" and off the "neck", which was connected to the "head" or primary forward hull section. The "head" featured the bridge, main engineering, and a majority of the primary weapon systems of the vessel."
A hollow design with engines on the out hull? That almost becomes a disc with oposite engines. Sounds good for spinning, doesn't it?
Memory Alpha in no way contradicts my statement that the D'deridex has less mass than the Galaxy. Yes, it is larger, but the design is 80% open volume. The Galaxy class has two compact sections with overall more internal volume. And this volume is fully structured, not hollow. Nor does Memory Alpha contradict that the Warbird is agile. Speed and agility is not the same. I again say;
In The Next Generation, season 5, episode 8, Unification II, a Warbird decloaks and destroys the "Vulcan" transports. My point is, for anyone who has seen that scene, the warbird can turn quite fast. I'm not saying it should turn quite that fast in the game, but its agility is good. That's canon.
And I stand by this. Watch the episode. See it turn fast. Its in the episode. Its canon.
The user formerly known as Khern!
I hate the fact Perfect World force-joined STO and PW accounts...
Honestly after playing around with this thing... the turn isn't near as bad as it seems... cause the inertia values are fantastic.
At first I thought this was sarcasm, until I read the rest of your post.
Part of the problem with the D'deridex is that it takes ages to accelerate and decelerate. No console can make up for that lack of control. The lack of control is from the low inertia rating of 15. So i have absolutely no idea what you mean by "fantastic inertia".
It means when you cloak you can spin around like a dervish to be facing the back of the enemy once you stop moving, ready to decloak and ream his TRIBBLE. It actually means you don't have to actually fly around him, and its simple to do. You can also be flying in one direction and actually turn the ship in a slide maneuver so that your forward is facing him as you move past him.
Learn to use the abilities of your ship. What you see as a weakness can be a strength.
A hollow design with engines on the out hull? That almost becomes a disc with oposite engines. Sounds good for spinning, doesn't it?
The warp nacelles are what's on the outside, they're not the impulse engines. The D'Deridex's impulse engines are within the shell, connected to the top section and pointed at the back connection. That's not a good position for spinning.
Warp Nacelles: Warp Travel.
Impulse Engines: Primary thrust.
Yes, it is larger, but the design is 80% open volume. The Galaxy class has two compact sections with overall more internal volume. And this volume is fully structured, not hollow.
By size alone, the upper and lower sections of the D'Deridex are individually about 3/4ths to 4/5ths of a Galaxy's Saucer Section, so the D'Deridex has a little less than 2 Galaxy Saucer's worth of mass, excluding the head.
There is no mention of internal volume but going by hallways and bridges it's arguable that Romulan Ships hold more components/armor/stuff than Starfleet Ships (thus the more compact hallway/bridge design) and thus could have more mass to them. Even then if the internal volume between the Galaxy and D'Deridex is equal, it's still more massive than the Galaxy.
Comments
RCS will not help you much either. Because a few more percent of nothing is still nothing...
I don't understand the way they set up the Romulan Ships in the first place. I don't really understand why all romulan ships have +10 weapons +5 engines....
Turn Rate of the D'Deridex should be at least 6.5 - 7. The Commander BO should be Universal so you can make it actually a decent Science Ship and not a useless Cruiser. But that would be my personal preference....
Wrong tier. This is level 30, not 40. at 40 the problem goes away.
Its just ridiculous that a tac or sci player gets stuck with what is obviously an engineer ship for a quarter of their leveling process.
By the time I got there, I had all my cannon skills/boffs set up, all the stuff I needed for turn rate, etc... and i get a ship that is completely incompatible with what I have chosen for skills/boffs up til then. The mogai worked, but the DD sorta screwed me entirely. I ended up with a cannon loaded ship that spent the entire battle shooting behind itself with a couple turrets. Not even evasive could get me turned around.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
That ship you would prefer? Already exists. You just need to get it out of a lockbox.
Keep using the Tier 3 Mogai. It's perfectly playable.
EDIT: @doctorstegi: The tier 5 version is pretty universal, it has at least a Lt.Comm of every career.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I would like to fly a D'Deridex Warbird but the way it looks right now I won't touch it. I m fairly disappointed with most romulan ships right now since they are all set up the same way with the same bonus powers unless you get a Tier 5 Starbase Fleet ship which offers 1 ship + to Aux.
No point of manking a Romulan Science Captain really. As Klingon you have at least the option to fly a Science Vessel or a Bird of Prey with universal Bridge Officer Slots as Romulan well you don't.
Pointing your nose at your target in a cruiser is not how they should be played or made to be played. Can it be done sure but it should be hard as hell and you should have to use all the tricks in the book.
Every ship of every faction in this game has its strength and weakness. You should play to your strength while covering your weakness. Adjust your play style to fit the ship and layout your using. This game would become real boring if you could play the same way in every ship.
Romulan ships have a battle cloak for a reason if your not using it then your not using one of your strengths. If you don't like that style of game play then maybe its not your cup of tea.
The problem for me has been that escorts have gotten out of control using cannons. Buff beam weapons then your turn rate becomes less of an issue. Leave turn rates alone.
Umm, what? At level 30, the problem doesn't exist.
There are no level 30 ships with a commander engineering, so there's no reason there would be any ships with commander science or commander lieutenant either.
Actually, it's only 20% of the leveling process. Or about 8-24 hours of space game play, depending on your rate of progression.
Not to mention, this is newly released content, there's only 1 ship at every rank below 40 because they're focusing on end-game content. And rightly so, after all, you're going to spend about 99% of your time at rank 40+. They may add lower tier ships in the future (just as they did with the Klingons) but for now, this makes sense.
Foresight is important. I always look at my entire progression to understand what I need and when.
Also, changing your BOff skills isn't really that big of a deal. You can buy LTC, LT, and EN skills for 1 BO for less than 500EC. And you don't even lose expertise.
I fail to see what the big deal is?
I was with you up until this, vinsinar.
This embodies everything that is wrong with the people who think the issue with turn rate is about being able to deal more damage.
Wrong wrong wrong.
Even if you buff beams weapons to be so powerful that they're basically insta-win weapons and if you don't run an 8 beam broadside you're just fodder, you aren't addressing the problem created by low turn rates.
The problem with low turn rates is that it's not fun to spend a lot of time trying to point your ship at your next objective. That has nothing to do with weapon damage, and buffing weapon damage or certain builds won't help fix the problem.
Case in point, how long are you going to fly a ship that can totally dominate any other ship in PvP with ease, but it takes you 2 minutes to make a 180 degree turn? You'll probably fly it exactly 1 time, realize that the only way to get anywhere is to transwarp, and then head back to your factions hub to change to a different ship.
Now I'm not saying that the Big D suffers from this issue. What I am saying is, sufficiently low turn rates aren't fixed by buffing something other than turn rate, because the problem isn't something other than turn rate, the problem is the turn rate.
Every lvl 30 ship has one commander level Boff. The basic D'Deridex is available at lvl 30 as a Tier 4 ship, with a commander Eng.
If you did put expertise in the previous abilities, you lose it by getting a new ability.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
You are absolutely correct, for some reason I was thinking the tier 4 ships had a LTC slot only, but that is tier 3.
Unless this was a recent change, this has never been my experience. Replacing a BOff skill for me has refunded my expertise in the past.
Considering there have been numerous posters in this thread, and in every other thread about the D'Deridex's turn rate for the past three weeks, listing in great detail exactly how high the D'Deridex's turn rate can go (with and without cloak) and how it's done, to which you have exactly zero response save "those should be nerfed" and/or "I shouldn't have to do that", yeah I'm going to go with that being exactly what you want.
Spock's Brain.
Why is that surprising? I've levelled a pair of feds through from Lt. to Rear Admiral in T1 ships.
It just seems to keep running into things, be they other players who are doing the same maneuvers as I am, or enemies that like to get in my way.
Actually That was before I found out about the Tachyokenetic (sp?) console. As I said in my original post this wasn't JUST meant to be about a turn rate increase, but also builds that help increase the turn rate without heavy amounts of stacking RCS consoles.
I've NEVER said anything should be nerfed, I did however in response to a couple of posts say that if a trade off needed to be made for a slight increase in turn rate that reducing the turn rate buff from cloaking might be an option. That right there is enough to prove I'm not looking for some huge beast that can turn on a dime.
If you wade through all the pages of canon this and canon that there is alot of useful information in here that some people might not know.
I saved up the ec to get the Helmsman trait, a vr RCS, and instead of just selling my 30 kets from the legacy pack used those and a few more to get that tachyokinetic console. All of that info came from this thread so it is serving it's purpose just fine. It's a damn beautiful ship, but it just wasn't fun to fly because it took so much to turn. My biggest thing with the turn rate was two fold, 1) not fun because turn was too low/wide 2) Elachi are going to be around to stay and their subspace jump was annoyingly difficult to deal with because of the excessively slow base turn.
As far as I can tell, you can only meet them by replaying missions. Maybe there's one space event with them, not entirely sure about that.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
...I have had no problems handling her. The low base turn rate means you can't run an all DHC setup, sure, but you can run a single cannon or two for a little more broadside for the cannons, and when you need to set up an attack run, the Battle Cloak gives you a lot of turn rate so long as you aren't taking heavy fire at the same time (popping Haz Emitters or Aux to SIF 3 lets you harden your hull to shrug off light weapon fire), while also giving you a potentially significant decloak damage buff.
Wouldn't a science captain in a Mogai be a better overall setup for PvP anyways?
In The Next Generation, season 5, episode 11, Unification II, a Warbird decloaks and destroys the "Vulcan" transports. My point is, for anyone who has seen that scene, the warbird can turn quite fast. I'm not saying it should turn quite that fast in the game, but its agility is good. That's canon.
And if you look at its hull, its not massive. It looks massive, but its actually just an empty structure. A Warbird has far less mass and weight than a galaxy class which is much more massive despite having a slightly smaller profile. 80% of the D'deridex is open space.
I understand the balance, but it should be +1. Just my two cents.
Read Memory Alpha.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/D%27deridex_class
You will see that the D'deridex was indeed just that ridiculously massive, and that due to the huge size, it still has a large amount of mass in total.
Then back to a D'deridex decloaking, turning like a boss and killing transports? That's easily accomplished by hitting Evasive Maneuvers. You never see a D'deridex turn quickly constantly, just in short bursts, like the Galaxy. In all honesty, the only ships you see in the show being nimble constantly are BoPs and the Defiant. Everything else is a little sluggish, but moves like a boss in short bursts.
It reminds me a lot of the Klingon Vorcha. Which slides on its back side in the same way.
Honestly forget about what the number is on paper... and fly this thing for awhile. Very usable... for pve its 100% fine... for pvp I would also say its 100% fine. As a cloaking support ship that can put out some hurt with a bit of CC it fits the bill. I see no reason to complain... it does what it should do and it does it extremely well.
With the layout it has... look into things like aux to damp EPTE... a RCS or 2... and you will find it very acceptable.
To test the extreme I loaded it with some high aux damp... a couple RCS and EPTE... and I had it turning over 20... with almost perfect uptime on that.
Considering all the toys it has and the battle cloak... its very much fine as it is right now.
So stuff can pass through the wings, apparently, but if I hit another ship head-on I stop dead in my tracks rather than bouncing off and sliding to the side like on other ships? The latter is particularly annoying when fighting swarms of Elachi, who seem to have developed the tactic of ramming me with multiple ships so I can't move, then having one or two teleport behind me.
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
Well, memory alpha says;
Technical Data:
"The D'deridex-class warbird was classified as a battle cruiser by Starfleet. Using a forced quantum singularity as a power source and the latest in Romulan cloaking technology, the D'deridex was not only one of the most advanced vessels in the Romulan Star Empire, but also in the Alpha Quadrant. These warbirds were roughly twice as long as a Federation Galaxy-class starship with a lower overall maximum speed. "
Size is not the same as mass. Mass isn't mentioned. So where does "it is ridiculusly massive" conclusion come from? It says most advanced, large, but not heavy or massive.
Physical Arangement:
"The outboard plan of the warbird's design incorporated a unique, horizontally split "shell" hull design, with a prominent forward section. The bulk of the ship's overall size was incorporated in the open-shell, which resembled two separate "wings" that met at either side at the warp nacelles, at the "tail" and off the "neck", which was connected to the "head" or primary forward hull section. The "head" featured the bridge, main engineering, and a majority of the primary weapon systems of the vessel."
A hollow design with engines on the out hull? That almost becomes a disc with oposite engines. Sounds good for spinning, doesn't it?
Memory Alpha in no way contradicts my statement that the D'deridex has less mass than the Galaxy. Yes, it is larger, but the design is 80% open volume. The Galaxy class has two compact sections with overall more internal volume. And this volume is fully structured, not hollow. Nor does Memory Alpha contradict that the Warbird is agile. Speed and agility is not the same. I again say;
And I stand by this. Watch the episode. See it turn fast. Its in the episode. Its canon.
At first I thought this was sarcasm, until I read the rest of your post.
Part of the problem with the D'deridex is that it takes ages to accelerate and decelerate. No console can make up for that lack of control. The lack of control is from the low inertia rating of 15. So i have absolutely no idea what you mean by "fantastic inertia".
Learn to use the abilities of your ship. What you see as a weakness can be a strength.
Warp Nacelles: Warp Travel.
Impulse Engines: Primary thrust.
By size alone, the upper and lower sections of the D'Deridex are individually about 3/4ths to 4/5ths of a Galaxy's Saucer Section, so the D'Deridex has a little less than 2 Galaxy Saucer's worth of mass, excluding the head.
There is no mention of internal volume but going by hallways and bridges it's arguable that Romulan Ships hold more components/armor/stuff than Starfleet Ships (thus the more compact hallway/bridge design) and thus could have more mass to them. Even then if the internal volume between the Galaxy and D'Deridex is equal, it's still more massive than the Galaxy.