With certain states in the US we don't pay online taxes, whatever the price says is what you pay, partly my fault here for telling a fleet mate what a good deal it was when I did not understand her Tax system or that she would have to pay that much extra.
And this is not mentioned ANYWHERE on the page?, why....
Come on it takes a little time to say look you in Europe must pay TAX...., however please tell us, in only has to be a side note at the bottom...
How you have done this, well it's just dishonest, can't you put the EU price on it as well?, does that take too much...
This seems like a much better deal than it is on face value, just be honest in future thats all I ask...
Sarah
they arent really being dishonest. being that its US based its highly unlikely they know the VAT laws, as im sure each country does it different, and would have to constantly change it based on exchange rates.
Please I am begging when you price things on the website can you at LEAST put the correct dollar price for those of us in the UK....
I have just bought the LOR pack imagine my suprise when I realise it's not $124.99 dollars for me it's actually $153.62....
So instead of the ?82 pounds I had actually budgetd for it was ?105....Now I went ahead and gave you the money this time anyway.
I thought long and hard about it though, and really I don't mind if your honest, but this just seems like a shoddy way to treat your customer base...
Why is it ?23 pounds more for those of us in Europe anyway, and why isn't this mentioned anywhere....
Sarah
You paid taxes, welcome to the internet.
Following changes introduced on 1 July 2003, non-EU businesses providing digital electronic commerce and entertainment products and services to EU countries are also required to register with the tax authorities in the relevant EU member state, and to collect VAT on their sales at the appropriate rate, according to the location of the purchaser.[27] Alternatively, under a special scheme, non-EU businesses may register and account for VAT on only one EU member state.[27] This produces distortions as the rate of VAT is that of the member state of registration, not where the customer is located, and an alternative approach is therefore under negotiation, whereby VAT is charged at the rate of the member state where the purchaser is located.[27]
I would like to know why our country charges V.A.T for gaming. gaming as always been tax free in casinos so why do we get V.A.T in this game i never had vat added in other games that i played online so why only this one.
us brits always have to pay more than any where else i find this an insult and i do not like how things are going.
I do agree that a little line of dialogue saying something about 'possible local tax for non US countries' would probably be sufficient on the page itself. yes people really should know this before hand, but not everyone does, or just assumes its already been calculated. so a warning would be handy and wont kill anyone.
but the final price does display once you enter your card details before you actually buy it, so you can cancel if you like.
I do, somewhat, understand the OP's point. It should have a note or * directing you to a footer telling you that VAT will be added to the price - and that information might be in the FAQ, but it should be visible. But it's not illegal to not state that.
Unfortunately it's on the buyer's shoulders to know what taxes their country demands for online purchases. In this day and age it's almost impossible to think that Europeans are buying international goods on the internet and not understanding their country has a VAT tax.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Sorry I don't know my tax laws please take me out and behead me, and no Loki don't you be sorry at all it IS still a good deal however it would have been nice to get the full picture...before I got to the paypal window...
I actually didn't know we got charged in EU for zen as it clearly states a dollar price so I usually just convert however I appreciate you pointing out the grey areas for me, thats very nice.
Maybe because this usually doesn't happen on MMO games I usually play as the price is always in EU anyways for those of us in Europe and the tax is added in as it is everytime for anything we buy.
I just don't see what the problem is in actually posting the GBP and the EU price as well, with the tax added.
Come on we are your customers too, or are we not worth the consideration, that way those of us who are ignorant of the tax laws know the full purcahse price for what you are advertising!!
Sarah
SSO Fleet Understands that this is a game, that it's sole purpose is to escape from the harsh realities of life. Thats why we promise, we offer fun, frolics without the mandatory rules and structure. Come escape with us, we dare you.....
As several have mentioned, we in the UK have VAT of 20% to add on to a purchase of this nature. PWE/Cryptic do not have any responsibility to tell players from other countries to check said countries laws on VAT.
Add to that the fact that UK players must pay in Euros (not GBP) and you have an exchange rate (which constantly fluctuates) to take into account.
Cryptic advertise the price for the pack in a format they know and understand fully, it is up to us to know the exchange rate and VAT which will be added for any country we live in.
I agree a tiny bit of small print would have been helpful to certain players and payers but dishonest? Nope, just not seeing that.
"...we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than the things that divide us.”
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
With certain states in the US we don't pay online taxes, whatever the price says is what you pay, partly my fault here for telling a fleet mate what a good deal it was when I did not understand her Tax system or that she would have to pay that much extra.
Sorry for the confusion gilry.
Loki
Most states already have arrangements to collect online sales tax. The only states that don't are the ones that have been wasting money trying to force the carriers to sign contracts that they've already signed but the states refuse to (and in fact, most of the states trying to force the matter already have the agreements in place anyway). And the matter will be settled for good in a few months when the agreements at the federal level go into effect and finish the paperwork for the states that don't want to.
As for seeing courts address billing the UK in Euros: Canadian courts handled that decades ago with identical laws, it used to be incredibly common to bill Canadian customers in US dollars.
its not that us in the uk dont know we have vat, its that all the prices here as a general rule have vat already added to them so the customers know exactly what they are paying
its not that us in the uk dont know we have vat, its that all the prices here as a general rule have vat already added to them so the customers know exactly what they are paying
Only in shops on the high street, most online retailers show prices including and excluding vat - and a lot of the online computer shops I use only show prices excluding vat and they don't add in the vat until you look at your basket.
I don't think it's unreasonable for a simple statement that the price is excluding VAT.
I do agree that a little line of dialogue saying something about 'possible local tax for non US countries' would probably be sufficient on the page itself. yes people really should know this before hand, but not everyone does, or just assumes its already been calculated. so a warning would be handy and wont kill anyone.
but the final price does display once you enter your card details before you actually buy it, so you can cancel if you like.
I'm pretty sure that you do get a disclaimer @ check out stating that the final price may vary depending on your local tax laws.
I'm just glad that I live in the US and never seem to have to pay taxes on anything purchased over the internet unless it's being sold from the state in which I live.
I would like to know why our country charges V.A.T for gaming. gaming as always been tax free in casinos so why do we get V.A.T in this game i never had vat added in other games that i played online so why only this one.
....
Most likely because PWE has a 'physical' presence in Europe, thus subject to European tax law...
its not that us in the uk dont know we have vat, its that all the prices here as a general rule have vat already added to them so the customers know exactly what they are paying
Yup,
We pay alot of tax in the UK but its usually already included in the price (unless you buy from a wholesaler or are VAT registered)
As such it would be unusual for the average UK person to expect to pay more than what is advertised.
its not that us in the uk dont know we have vat, its that all the prices here as a general rule have vat already added to them so the customers know exactly what they are paying
Part of the problem is that different countries in the EU have different VAT rates. The UK's rate is 20% while Denmark's is 25%, and so on. It's not that easy to just list one price and assume it's universal for everyone.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Part of the problem is that different countries in the EU have different VAT rates. The UK's rate is 20% while Denmark's is 25%, and so on. It's not that easy to just list one price and assume it's universal for everyone.
Actually alot of websites (ebay, amazon, ect) have a simple script that detect what country you are buying from and adjust 'total' prices' accordingly.
In the UK it is a legal requirement to include VAT in displayed prices but outside it is not. This of course leads to a lot of confusion when it comes to countries outwith the UK, as people here are unaware of the VAT because they are used to it just being included.
It would be really awkward to try to include it in with the prices, but I will point out that at one point euro and sterling prices on the website all had a note attached to them saying that VAT would need to be added to these prices which vanished when PWE took over. It wouldn't be too hard to add this back in, it is just a few words and a couple of asteriks next to the prices.
Actually alot of websites (ebay, amazon, ect) have a simple script that detect what country you are buying from and adjust 'total' prices' accordingly.
It is quite simple actually.
yes, but they are complaining about it showing on the fixed legacy pack web page, not the purchase page.... i doubt such a script will work on the legacy pack page.
In the UK it is a legal requirement to include VAT in displayed prices but outside it is not. This of course leads to a lot of confusion when it comes to countries outwith the UK, as people here are unaware of the VAT because they are used to it just being included.
It would be really awkward to try to include it in with the prices, but I will point out that at one point euro and sterling prices on the website all had a note attached to them saying that VAT would need to be added to these prices which vanished when PWE took over. It wouldn't be too hard to add this back in, it is just a few words and a couple of asteriks next to the prices.
I always thought that was lazy, given the technology to detect country/adjust prices on the fly. But it was a welcome warning.
*shrugs* I just noticed that if I want the EU price I change the site to French or German, however English has the states flag and the unionjack combined so I don't think they want to add a GBP price for stuff.
Ah well, as I said I didin't get caught out, I just wondered why the price suddenly jumped up and assumed that I had missed the offer
Ah well it's still worth it, and I at least understand purchasing a bit better from this site at least...
Sarah
SSO Fleet Understands that this is a game, that it's sole purpose is to escape from the harsh realities of life. Thats why we promise, we offer fun, frolics without the mandatory rules and structure. Come escape with us, we dare you.....
I can tell you why it's so expensive in one little word...GREED
I honestly feel sorry for anyone who actually spent that much money for these in game items that aren't even real and this only tells them they can charge this much or more for future bundles.
For a long time now, PWE has been charging for Zen in euros for British players.
They claimed, at the time, it was forced by a tax decision as they were legally required to pay 20% vat on the transaction.
As PWE Europe is based in the Netherlands, this might be the case for countries that use the Euro.
However, there is a legal grey area because Britain uses GBP, not the Euro, and PWE are forcing us to convert currency, charging for it, then adding VAT.
It would be interesting to see this challenged in the Law Courts.
Interesting point I should add here, buying zen with paypal/credit card w/e on pwe is actually the best deal for uk players, i have STO on steam and if you buy zen in game through the steam wallet it's ?4.50 for 500 zen, but buying 540 zen on pwe costs around ?4.35 (paypal shows what i'm paying total in uk money even though the price charged by pwe is in euros)
Nice. I hope there will be a challenge in getting these digital objects beyond the means of buying them straight off 'the shelf'?
...and 119? That is mighty steep for an 'addon'/'update' A thousand danish kroner for an expansion?!?
Expansions usually costs ->20?, no? Is there something I have missed out on?
Sorry. I will communicate this in Danish so please just step on if you don't understand.
Det er jo ikke udvidelsen du kommer til at betale for, men til geng?ld nogle objekter inde i udvidelsen.
Jeg vil selv sige at det m?ske var en smule dyrt at k?be pakken men at det i sidste ende nok ville have kostet mere n?r og hvis jeg havde k?bt det stykvis inde i shoppen.
H?ber det hjalp og ellers m? du gerne give en PM hvis der er noget.
Most states already have arrangements to collect online sales tax. The only states that don't are the ones that have been wasting money trying to force the carriers to sign contracts that they've already signed but the states refuse to (and in fact, most of the states trying to force the matter already have the agreements in place anyway). And the matter will be settled for good in a few months when the agreements at the federal level go into effect and finish the paperwork for the states that don't want to.
As for seeing courts address billing the UK in Euros: Canadian courts handled that decades ago with identical laws, it used to be incredibly common to bill Canadian customers in US dollars.
Actually we have a no use sales tax law here, so sorry, won't be changing in the near future.
As the title suggests, when I attempt to make a payment through paypal, I'm charged in Euro rather than in US dollars. As I'm from the UK, this means I'm effectively paying more for pack. Can any Dev chime in and explain this? Or am I doing something wrong?
Since some people seem to have not gotten this memo, I'll remind you:
Since 2011 it's been *ILLEGAL* to charge UK people in US dollars for online purchases.
Yes, I'm aware some merchants have not yet gotten in trouble for failing to comply with this law. That doesn't change the fact it's the law.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Oh, I wasn't aware of this. Can you clarify which law this is that you're referring to (I'm presuming that it's a US law?)?
Cheers1
PS you'd better tell Amazon this :-)
It's not, it's UK law. I'll let the UK government handle their own deliberations with Amazon; PWE got a nastygram about their lack of compliance last year.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Comments
Sorry for the confusion gilry.
Loki
they arent really being dishonest. being that its US based its highly unlikely they know the VAT laws, as im sure each country does it different, and would have to constantly change it based on exchange rates.
You paid taxes, welcome to the internet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax
Such a command of the native tongue. You must be proud of your ability, to put others down so eloquently.
us brits always have to pay more than any where else i find this an insult and i do not like how things are going.
but the final price does display once you enter your card details before you actually buy it, so you can cancel if you like.
Unfortunately it's on the buyer's shoulders to know what taxes their country demands for online purchases. In this day and age it's almost impossible to think that Europeans are buying international goods on the internet and not understanding their country has a VAT tax.
I actually didn't know we got charged in EU for zen as it clearly states a dollar price so I usually just convert however I appreciate you pointing out the grey areas for me, thats very nice.
Maybe because this usually doesn't happen on MMO games I usually play as the price is always in EU anyways for those of us in Europe and the tax is added in as it is everytime for anything we buy.
I just don't see what the problem is in actually posting the GBP and the EU price as well, with the tax added.
Come on we are your customers too, or are we not worth the consideration, that way those of us who are ignorant of the tax laws know the full purcahse price for what you are advertising!!
Sarah
Add to that the fact that UK players must pay in Euros (not GBP) and you have an exchange rate (which constantly fluctuates) to take into account.
Cryptic advertise the price for the pack in a format they know and understand fully, it is up to us to know the exchange rate and VAT which will be added for any country we live in.
I agree a tiny bit of small print would have been helpful to certain players and payers but dishonest? Nope, just not seeing that.
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Kirk's Protege.
Most states already have arrangements to collect online sales tax. The only states that don't are the ones that have been wasting money trying to force the carriers to sign contracts that they've already signed but the states refuse to (and in fact, most of the states trying to force the matter already have the agreements in place anyway). And the matter will be settled for good in a few months when the agreements at the federal level go into effect and finish the paperwork for the states that don't want to.
As for seeing courts address billing the UK in Euros: Canadian courts handled that decades ago with identical laws, it used to be incredibly common to bill Canadian customers in US dollars.
Only in shops on the high street, most online retailers show prices including and excluding vat - and a lot of the online computer shops I use only show prices excluding vat and they don't add in the vat until you look at your basket.
I don't think it's unreasonable for a simple statement that the price is excluding VAT.
Kirk's Protege.
I'm pretty sure that you do get a disclaimer @ check out stating that the final price may vary depending on your local tax laws.
I'm just glad that I live in the US and never seem to have to pay taxes on anything purchased over the internet unless it's being sold from the state in which I live.
Yup,
We pay alot of tax in the UK but its usually already included in the price (unless you buy from a wholesaler or are VAT registered)
As such it would be unusual for the average UK person to expect to pay more than what is advertised.
Thus, I can understand the OP frustration.
Actually alot of websites (ebay, amazon, ect) have a simple script that detect what country you are buying from and adjust 'total' prices' accordingly.
It is quite simple actually.
It would be really awkward to try to include it in with the prices, but I will point out that at one point euro and sterling prices on the website all had a note attached to them saying that VAT would need to be added to these prices which vanished when PWE took over. It wouldn't be too hard to add this back in, it is just a few words and a couple of asteriks next to the prices.
yes, but they are complaining about it showing on the fixed legacy pack web page, not the purchase page.... i doubt such a script will work on the legacy pack page.
I always thought that was lazy, given the technology to detect country/adjust prices on the fly. But it was a welcome warning.
It should be a minimum requirement at the least.
Ah well, as I said I didin't get caught out, I just wondered why the price suddenly jumped up and assumed that I had missed the offer
Ah well it's still worth it, and I at least understand purchasing a bit better from this site at least...
Sarah
I honestly feel sorry for anyone who actually spent that much money for these in game items that aren't even real and this only tells them they can charge this much or more for future bundles.
Interesting point I should add here, buying zen with paypal/credit card w/e on pwe is actually the best deal for uk players, i have STO on steam and if you buy zen in game through the steam wallet it's ?4.50 for 500 zen, but buying 540 zen on pwe costs around ?4.35 (paypal shows what i'm paying total in uk money even though the price charged by pwe is in euros)
Sorry. I will communicate this in Danish so please just step on if you don't understand.
Det er jo ikke udvidelsen du kommer til at betale for, men til geng?ld nogle objekter inde i udvidelsen.
Jeg vil selv sige at det m?ske var en smule dyrt at k?be pakken men at det i sidste ende nok ville have kostet mere n?r og hvis jeg havde k?bt det stykvis inde i shoppen.
H?ber det hjalp og ellers m? du gerne give en PM hvis der er noget.
Actually we have a no use sales tax law here, so sorry, won't be changing in the near future.
Since some people seem to have not gotten this memo, I'll remind you:
Since 2011 it's been *ILLEGAL* to charge UK people in US dollars for online purchases.
Yes, I'm aware some merchants have not yet gotten in trouble for failing to comply with this law. That doesn't change the fact it's the law.
Oh, I wasn't aware of this. Can you clarify which law this is that you're referring to (I'm presuming that it's a US law?)?
Cheers!
PS you'd better tell Amazon this :-)
It's not, it's UK law. I'll let the UK government handle their own deliberations with Amazon; PWE got a nastygram about their lack of compliance last year.