The ship jumps forward about 3km leaving behind a silly underpowered version of Gravity Well behind. Even on 5th power level it wasn't able to draw an NPC escort-type ship that was just 2km away from it. Also, its damage is so low it didn't even manage to scratch the enemy's fighters.
The potency of this skill should either be significantly increased, or the ship should jump to a position FACING the singularity (so you could do some damage to drawn enemies), not leaving it behind the ship (making it useless for all those d'deridexes and haapaxes).
Warp Shadow - tested it before today's patch, so I'm not sure how significant the changes were, but before that the skill wasn't really impressive, as the shadows didn't move and sometimes weren't able to draw an NPCs attention from the player.
Plasma Shockwave - kind of meh. I realise it's supposed to be mainly Plasma DoT, but still even on the 5th power level the wave wasn't able to destroy high yield torpedos and fighters, while the DoT was so low I couldn't even notice it doing anything to an enemy's ship.
Quantum Absorption - THE ultimate singularity power. Not that's is OP or anything, but from all those four that are available to me at Tier 4 this one I used the most. Basically a temporary heal/buff that kept me alive much longer than I should. Much more useful in "oh ***t" situations than Shadows or Jump. So much in fact that I can't imagine when would I use those two instead.
I would prefer this as being aesthetically better and because I suspect I just wouldn't ever use a cloak with such a long cooldown.
While I am more inclined to prefer the lower power solution as well. Something I think should pointed out is that the power-solution disproportionately affects lower level play. As gameplay advances, captains will gain skills that really help mitigate the lower power levels [efficiency]. Also coupled with at lower tier ships, the player is getting less utility out of the singularity simply due to not having access to all their perks.
I'm inclined to go 'so what' with the level difference, especially as low level play goes by quickly, and doesn't really have much difficulty in it.
the only way i know how to decloak a ship is using that Nebula Class with that horrible FPS eating blue grid power thingy...
so excuse me for being ignorant, but i don't think the majority of Players even knows how to counter a cloaking device, therefore IMHO the numbers how good the stealth is, as in *behind the screen*-Math is nothing that players really care about, but a 20 to 40 second cooldown change is something that is very IN YOUR FACE.
I'd rather see the numbers be made the same that Klingons have but the cooldown be left alone.
(i never uncloaked a Klingon Ship, not NPC not Player... so... it seems to me that any more efficiency than the default the Klingons / Defiant have is obsolete to begin with...
but maybe i'm just ignorant and don't know how this game works... it's not like that stuff is explained in the tutorial or at Starfleet Academy or anything like that)
Well said, though there -are- ways of detecting cloaked ships that DO depend on the target cloak's effectiveness.
1. Throw power into aux to buff perception.
2. Spec into Starship Sensors to buff perception.
3. If sci, activate Sensor Scan to (you guessed it) buff perception.
4. Insert whatever other perception buffs I may have failed to notice.
There are however surefire ways of decloaking ships regardless of effectiveness.
1. Gravity well near target. Tricky, except on T'Varo or B'rel captains throwing torpedoes into your front shield.
2. Tractor beam. This only works on T'Varo, B'rel, or ships that are TRYING to cloak.
3. Charged Particle Burst. Decloaks all targets in a certain radius, and damages shields on non-cloaked hostiles. May also work against Mask Energy Signature.
4. Insert other decloaking abilities that I don't know of.
However, not to be cruel to any group in particular, but a joke has started to creep up in regard to folks that haven't flown BoPs and what that will likely mean for them as they fly the Warbirds. I myself have seen this in Mirror Events.
They don't know that there are times they shouldn't cloak.
So undoubtedly, as they become more familiar with when to and when not to cloak - they'll likely have increased survivability because of the combination of variables involved (really happy to see things being taken into consideration like that, by the way - sometimes it doesn't seem like that's the case) - when they first start out and until they get the hang of it, they're going to have far less survivability. They're going to contribute to their own deaths...quite a bit.
Still though, isn't there an issue with making the "blanket" changes to the cloaking, power levels, etc, etc, etc...because the ships themselves are not the same?
A single change applied to a Fleet T'varo, Fleet Dhelan, Fleet Mogai, Fleet D'Deridex, Fleet Ha'apax, Fleet Ha'apax Refit...is going to have different results. Wouldn't it be a case of addressing things instead with the ships themselves rather than blanket changes?
Yes. Blanket changes will SEVERELY impair the performance of the T'Varo or Dhelan (and possibly even Mogai), but will be less of an impediment to the D'Deridex and Ha'apax.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
We're still testing possible ways of tweaking the Cloaking, power levels, singularity, etc. to ensure that the Romulans have a fun - and balanced - gameplay experience. None of the tuning points you're seeing in Beta are necessarily final.
The current iteration of Romulan Battle Cloak isn't intended to be a nerf to compensate for the Romulan racial trait. Rather, it comes from feedback from our internal testing, which indicated that Romulan ships were getting far too survivable compared to other factions when taking into account all their abilities.
Romulan Battle Cloak is, by default, harder to detect than Klingon Battle Cloaking - and only becomes easier to detect if you cloak at a high singularity level (roughly 60%) or higher. This is not taking into account the Romulan racial bonus to Cloaking, which makes it even harder to detect.
With these factors taken into consideration, as well as the added defensive capabilities of Singularity abilities, it was proving to be too easy to for Romulan ships to escape from combat without risk.
We still see Romulans as being experts at Cloaking technology, and that's why all their Warbirds have Battle Cloak and such a high base Stealth value. From a game mechanics standpoint, though, we still have to make sure they are properly balanced against other factions.
We are constantly discussing and testing different types of changes internally. Balance is an iterative process, and any time any type of ship has disadvantages when compared to another ship, *someone* is going to be disappointed.
If we give Romulans cloaking that is just better than Klingon cloaking in every way, there has to be a cost associated with that to maintain balance. As it stands, the base power level differences between Warbirds and other ships have not, in our testing, proven sufficient to compensate for both having a globally superior Cloak with no disadvantages and access to all of the Singularity powers. We may end up reverting to the 40 base power that all Warbirds used to have and giving the Romulans a globally superior cloak, or we might end up balancing these things in other ways - it's still an open discussion on the design team. We are paying close attention to player feedback and appreciate your comments.
You've answered your own question here; the issue is the presence of the Singularity abilities themselves that seem to be the problem. Admittedly my issue with this mechanic isn't that you have a charge meter, but that you've added yet more click abilities to an already click-tastic combat system. It really wasn't needed.
The Singularity charge would have been better as a turbo-charge that buffed already existing captain and BOFF space click abilities, with each bar filled increasing those abilities effectiveness by 2 or 3 percent. In addition, Romulan ships should probably have less hull strength and lower shield mods than their Starfleet and Klingon counterparts as well.
The ship jumps forward about 3km leaving behind a silly underpowered version of Gravity Well behind. Even on 5th power level it wasn't able to draw an NPC escort-type ship that was just 2km away from it. Also, its damage is so low it didn't even manage to scratch the enemy's fighters.
The potency of this skill should either be significantly increased, or the ship should jump to a position FACING the singularity (so you could do some damage to drawn enemies), not leaving it behind the ship (making it useless for all those d'deridexes and haapaxes).
You're expecting the wrong things from it. The Singularity pull is intended to keep the enemy in the vicinity of it, but not necessarily yank it into the center. It's not Gravity Well. What it DOES is apply a perception and accuracy debuff to anyone caught in its effect. How is that useful? That's your "escape into cloak" window. Charge your nearest (or nastiest) enemy and pop Singularity Jump, then cloak, turn, and fire. Even if they can still see you when you initially pop your cloak, they can't hit you. It lasts long enough that you can frequently get turned around in time even if you opt not to cloak.
I've found it very handy to charge the enemy under Evasive Maneuvers while dropping Warp Plasma, then Singularity Jump as soon as I know they're entangled. Between the two slow effects, ships are usually stuck in the plasma and helpless to retaliate until the singularity dissipates, getting mauled by the plasma.
Warp Shadow - tested it before today's patch, so I'm not sure how significant the changes were, but before that the skill wasn't really impressive, as the shadows didn't move and sometimes weren't able to draw an NPCs attention from the player.
I've found the best use of this (so far, and also have not tested since the patch) is to de-tank yourself...to draw away fire from all but your primary target (who will usually keep aggro on you). It might work better if you stop firing, I'm usually too busy habitually mashing the space bar to see.
Plasma Shockwave - kind of meh. I realise it's supposed to be mainly Plasma DoT, but still even on the 5th power level the wave wasn't able to destroy high yield torpedos and fighters, while the DoT was so low I couldn't even notice it doing anything to an enemy's ship.
It's quite good on a science officer with the Conservation of Energy buff going, but I have found that it does NOT scale well with level. I'm sure having more appropriate gear will help, but devs, you may want to bump up its scaling per level to make sure it's still relevant at 50 (at 40, it really isn't).
Quantum Absorption - THE ultimate singularity power. Not that's is OP or anything, but from all those four that are available to me at Tier 4 this one I used the most. Basically a temporary heal/buff that kept me alive much longer than I should. Much more useful in "oh ***t" situations than Shadows or Jump. So much in fact that I can't imagine when would I use those two instead.
You use Singularity Jump and Warp Shadows when you're taking fire from too many targets; in those circumstances, even the QA temporary hit points won't last long, but if they can't hit you (or hit something other than you), you can make your getaway; I don't recommend sticking around and trying to finish them off if you need it for that reason.
Power levels increase as the singularity powers increase until the power penalty is nullified at full singularity power.
Therefore any use of a singularity power comes with the risk of lowering your base powers until they are charged back by the singularity including the cooldown time.
Talk about your must have T'varo Refit console!
The Dhael console would also be a very popular purchase under this scheme.
Have the singularity recharge faster while cloaked, but how much faster is still a question.
This coupled with the decrease in stealth as your singularity charges will force Romulan Captains to decide to break cloak and attack or risk being detected to get full power restored.
That 60% charge to 100% charge time could be a really nervous but exciting experience!
This would also make any enhanced cloak users have to time when to break cloak to restore their stealth for continued torpedo/mine mayhem.
Hmm, this would appear to be counterintuitive for the T'varo Refit console to be a detriment to the T'Varo Retrofit unless singularity powers could be used while cloaked with the torpedo 3 second decloak.
There should be a cooldown for each individual singularity power based on the numbers of available powers.
Single skill ships: 60 second cooldown.
2 skill ships: 90 second cooldown.
3 skill ships: 120 second cooldown.
4 skill ships: 150 second cooldown.
5 skill ships: 180 second cooldown.
This system would prevent a player from spamming a single skill and encourages use of multiple skills in game.
Even with use of the T'varo Refit and Dhael consoles a player would not be able to use the same singularity power more than a player that did not have these consoles, but those who did could use 1 more power within a 3 minute window.
So this balances the reward of having the consoles without overly punishing those that don't.
Having the cloak adversely affected by the singularity makes sense but then having that adverse affect diminished with prolonged use of cloak is counterintuitive.
Reversing how the charging of the singularity works would then fit with the risk/reward of Romulan strategy.
Do I stay cloaked and power up for an Alpha strike and/or a singularity power or am I going to be discovered with my shields down?
Everyone assumed this change was done to nerf the 5 Superior Operative Boff enhancement but we are now made to believe it was done because Romulans ships were too survivable with just the 20 second cool down on cloaks.
There are a lot of experienced players helping with the beta testing and that may account for the higher than desired survival rates.
What may have also been revealed is that with the greater number of science skills on the lower level ships; science is better than engineering or at least enhances it along with the engineering skills for survival.
Certainly there is now adequate availability of TTS and ST for shields and HE for hulls to go along with the usual EPtS and ET and AtS which is not as prevalent in the 1-19 Federation or KDF ships.
Even at Commander the Mogai has 3 science boff skills whereas no other Federation or KDF ship can match that and only the Federation Research Science Vessel exceeds the Mogai with 4 science boff skills and BoPs could only do it while nerfing almost everything else.
If this is really all about Romulan ships being too durable wouldn't that speak to the need to lower ship HP and shields rather than nerf the quintessentially Romulan ability?
Now, if as many were suspecting, the cloaking changes were done in at least a small part due to Boff trait over enhancing, then please just do a Gandalf and set a cloak cooldown point (10 secs),that even with full Superior Operative Boffs, "none shall pass".
Everyone assumed this change was done to nerf the 5 Superior Operative Boff enhancement but we are now made to believe it was done because Romulans ships were too survivable with just the 20 second cool down on cloaks.
There are a lot of experienced players helping with the beta testing and that may account for the higher than desired survival rates.
What may have also been revealed is that with the greater number of science skills on the lower level ships; science is better than engineering or at least enhances it along with the engineering skills for survival.
Certainly there is now adequate availability of TTS and ST for shields and HE for hulls to go along with the usual EPtS and ET and AtS which is not as prevalent in the 1-19 Federation or KDF ships.
Even at Commander the Mogai has 3 science boff skills whereas no other Federation or KDF ship can match that and only the Federation Research Science Vessel exceeds the Mogai with 4 science boff skills and BoPs could only do it while nerfing almost everything else.
If this is really all about Romulan ships being too durable wouldn't that speak to the need to lower ship HP and shields rather than nerf the quintessentially Romulan ability?
Now, if as many were suspecting, the cloaking changes were done in at least a small part due to Boff trait over enhancing, then please just do a Gandalf and set a cloak cooldown point (10 secs),that even with full Superior Operative Boffs, "none shall pass".
This is precisely what needs to be done. Make a minimum cooldown, with the maximum being 20 seconds as usual. There's hardly any point in rendering the cloaks on the T'Varo and Dhelan COMPLETELY useless.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
We're still testing possible ways of tweaking the Cloaking, power levels, singularity, etc. to ensure that the Romulans have a fun - and balanced - gameplay experience. None of the tuning points you're seeing in Beta are necessarily final.
The current iteration of Romulan Battle Cloak isn't intended to be a nerf to compensate for the Romulan racial trait. Rather, it comes from feedback from our internal testing, which indicated that Romulan ships were getting far too survivable compared to other factions when taking into account all their abilities.
Romulan Battle Cloak is, by default, harder to detect than Klingon Battle Cloaking - and only becomes easier to detect if you cloak at a high singularity level (roughly 60%) or higher. This is not taking into account the Romulan racial bonus to Cloaking, which makes it even harder to detect.
With these factors taken into consideration, as well as the added defensive capabilities of Singularity abilities, it was proving to be too easy to for Romulan ships to escape from combat without risk.
We still see Romulans as being experts at Cloaking technology, and that's why all their Warbirds have Battle Cloak and such a high base Stealth value. From a game mechanics standpoint, though, we still have to make sure they are properly balanced against other factions.
We are constantly discussing and testing different types of changes internally. Balance is an iterative process, and any time any type of ship has disadvantages when compared to another ship, *someone* is going to be disappointed.
If we give Romulans cloaking that is just better than Klingon cloaking in every way, there has to be a cost associated with that to maintain balance. As it stands, the base power level differences between Warbirds and other ships have not, in our testing, proven sufficient to compensate for both having a globally superior Cloak with no disadvantages and access to all of the Singularity powers. We may end up reverting to the 40 base power that all Warbirds used to have and giving the Romulans a globally superior cloak, or we might end up balancing these things in other ways - it's still an open discussion on the design team. We are paying close attention to player feedback and appreciate your comments.
Cloak from what i have tested isn't the reason for the increase survivability with other ship classes, its the singularity ability particularly quantum absorption, and warp shadows. The only way i can see to correct this is either changing said abilities or excepting that warbird have better hit and run then other ship classes, though i could see a lower shield mod for the bop warbird.
As far as balancing power lvls/singularity abilities goes why not do as some people have suggested in that romulan ships start a fight at a disadvantage like -10 or -5 or however to all syetems and as each singularity charge builds restore some of the lost power since the singularity is "charging" anyway it should be building more power. So the people whom do not like the singularity mechanics dont have to pay for them for too long, but they are there for the rest of us that do want to use them.
The below are examples as I admit I dunno TRIBBLE bout balancing.
If we lose 10 to each system:
Sing charge 0 power lvls: 40/40/40/40
Sing charge 1 power lvls: 42/42/42/42
Sing charge 2 power lvls: 44/44/44/44
Sing charge 3 power lvls: 46/46/46/46
Sing charge 4 power lvls: 48/48/48/48
Sing charge 5 power lvls: 50/50/50/50
If we lose 5 to each system:
Sing charge 0 power lvls: 45/45/45/45
Sing charge 1 power lvls: 45/45/45/45
Sing charge 2 power lvls: 45/45/45/45
Sing charge 3 power lvls: 46/46/46/46
Sing charge 4 power lvls: 48/48/48/48
Sing charge 5 power lvls: 50/50/50/50
The reason you wouldn't get the power bonus's untill sing charge 3 on the -5 to all power is because rom ships should still have to pay for the OPTION of being able to use those powers and still be at a disadvantage for a while after using a ability to "recharge" the core.
Also this would at least HELP in STF's where the higher power lvls may be more useful than the situational singularity abilities
I just do not see how this system would not make most people happy. Romulans that want to use the special abilities that can use them, but if the romulan decides the singularity abilities are not for him then his ship starts off at a disadvantage but then levels out after being in combat a bit. Also this makes the singularity core system more noob friendly for if they don't use the abilities they are not "handicapping" themselves. Kling and Fed ships do not have the power lvls starting off lower but they also NEVER have the option to use the singularity abilities even if they wanted to. Then again knowing me I might be missing something that is obvious to most.
First of all thank you for the invitation to test on tribble. I only have one concern about the Ha'pax why are there two variants. I recommend leaving the refit variant only on the fleet I assume this would be a tier 5 fleet ship. The Lt. Commander station is a very good choice, because it offers players many option on how two use the warbird. Specially with the multi vector assault offered by the ship. When choosing the suppport vessel players my benefit from this staion with a science boff when using a the escort vessel they will benefit with a tac. So the universal Lt. Commander works well with this vessel.
While I am more inclined to prefer the lower power solution as well. Something I think should pointed out is that the power-solution disproportionately affects lower level play. As gameplay advances, captains will gain skills that really help mitigate the lower power levels [efficiency]. Also coupled with at lower tier ships, the player is getting less utility out of the singularity simply due to not having access to all their perks.
I'm inclined to go 'so what' with the level difference, especially as low level play goes by quickly, and doesn't really have much difficulty in it.
I agree that the lower levels are hit the hardest, but frankly, plasma shockwave and the cloak makes the T'liss so much more powerful than the Miranda it's not funny.
And, as you said, 1-49 is short, 50 is forever...'til next level cap raise, at least.
I happily 2nd the idea of starting out in -10 power then as I build singularity levels you can power until at max then you are equal to feds and Klingons. This would male me very happy.
I happily 2nd the idea of starting out in -10 power then as I build singularity levels you can power until at max then you are equal to feds and Klingons. This would male me very happy.
Equal to Feds and Klingons...except for having a full set of Singularity Powers that can be fired off (at full charge) and the ability to vanish into cloak at any time. Yeah. That's balanced.
Start closer to full power. Drain power as the Singularity takes more and more, to power higher level abilities. Or have it spike drop when you use 4th or 5th level singularity powers. Or both.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Start closer to full power. Drain power as the Singularity takes more and more, to power higher level abilities. Or have it spike drop when you use 4th or 5th level singularity powers. Or both.
I'm not sure that that should be implemented for the Romulans per se (a lot of ramifications to study, not a heck of a lot of time left before launch), but it would make a VERY interesting mechanic for a future ship system.
To be honest when I heard they were adding Singularities that had unique powers but there would be a power tradeoff, it was the first thing that occurred to me. It just felt like a pretty organic fit.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Honestly, cooldowns should really depend on the size of the ship. A big tanky DD can handle a longer cooldown, but a short spindly BoP that's already losing hull strength to power the cloak relies on it. Just ask the klingon players.
I dont want to play a Klingon? I want to fly a Mogai without gimmicks... I want to play a Romulan... Honestly, the people who say "You dont like "blank", go play this other thing instead." are jerks. (Also... I already have a level 50 KDF character... so you know... been there, done that)
I want to fly a Romulan ship, as a Romulan character with no gimmicky charging powers. Id prefer to do it with the Romulan battle cloak (which is actually different from the KDF version). Id prefer to do it without my power levels being gimped, but I'll even tolerate that if I can remove everything even relating to the singularity system off of my ship.
I agree... the Romulan ships should be different... thats great. But I should be able to opt out of that system. (And honestly, the fix is to allow warbirds to equip M/ARA cores and then require a singularity core to enable the singularity system). It should be an option, Im not saying it should be standard... but it should really be an option.
your warbird powerlevels are gimped for balance if you don't want to use singularity powers don't equip the singularity core,that is your opt out option atm, I don't think they will change the entire singularity/warp-core situation to suit you because the reactor types are completly incompatible as it shows in the cores tooltips.
You go about balance on what? Romulan Battlecloak because that is pretty much the only thing you can say were there is "balance", not on equipment.
In short I am grimped because I have a mechanic I cannot avoid it since ...
Warp Cores cannot be equipped on Warbirds.
Its not even either Singularity or Warp Cores, I have NO CHOICE in the matter because only I am STUCK with Singularity meaning I am stuck with those powers whatever I want to use then or not.
As you want to talk about balance this is the deal.
Power Levels are balanced for Cloaking device.
Singularity are balanced for Singularity powers.
Also dont give me the "you can remove it" since yes I can and guess what my Warp speed is in sector? 0.5 ... that is not even going over the fact I am being gimped over power levels for abilities I dont even HAVE anymore.
There is no choice here, either you do play as intended or you dont and are PUNISHED for it because there is no Singularity that simply gives the same bonus as Warp Cores but disables the Singularity powers.
Or your idea of balance being grimped against opponents because you dont want to use a mechanic of DUBIOUS usefulness?
Said it before, will probably say again.
You don't like warbirds? Play an ally or lockbox ship. There. You don't have to use the singularity core. Which is fine, since you're not bothering to understand it, or how to best exploit its features.
I'll say that again. People who dismiss the singularity powers as useless, borderline useless, gimmicks, whatever, ARE NOT TRYING. You want to play exactly the same way you'd play your Federation or your Klingon, and that's fine. You've been given the way to do that. But I (and I suspect the devs) do not place any stock in your feedback since it is clear you are NOT TRYING.
Play it. Work with it. Look at what everything does. Think of how you can best exploit the effects you're given. You'll find there's a LOT more to the singularity powers than you think.
And if you still don't want to, your ally's ships are waiting for you.
You don't like warbirds? Play an ally or lockbox ship. There. You don't have to use the singularity core. Which is fine, since you're not bothering to understand it, or how to best exploit its features.
I'll say that again. People who dismiss the singularity powers as useless, borderline useless, gimmicks, whatever, ARE NOT TRYING. You want to play exactly the same way you'd play your Federation or your Klingon, and that's fine. You've been given the way to do that. But I (and I suspect the devs) do not place any stock in your feedback since it is clear you are NOT TRYING.
Play it. Work with it. Look at what everything does. Think of how you can best exploit the effects you're given. You'll find there's a LOT more to the singularity powers than you think.
And if you still don't want to, your ally's ships are waiting for you.
I'd love to, but I can't. Didn't get the closed beta invite. :P Instead I and most others have to decide on LoR starter/legacy pack based on what others have said about the powers. I think many are on the fence, they want to invest but without playtesting for themselves they are uneasy about the singularity cores. They could love them or really hate them. -40 is a ton of power to lose across the board. (It may have changed, I'm not to speed without that invite )
They are experimenting with -20 now (-5 to each subsystem instead of -10).
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
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archoncrypticMember, Cryptic DevelopersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Just a heads up with some more changes that will be coming to the test servers soon.
-We have reverted the cooldown on Romulan Battle Cloak to 20 seconds.
-The base power levels for most Romulan Warbirds are being reverted to 40 base for each subsystem. The T'liss and T'varo are unaffected by this change.
-We have increased the power level bonuses to ships based on your current Singularity Power. This now goes from +5 at low singularity to +15 at max Singularity (up from +0 to +7.5). This bonus is disabled while your Singularity Powers are on cooldown.
As always, these changes are subject to further possible iterations in the future.
Haven't read all of the posts here, but I've tried to keep up with those since Archon's explanation. This is just my own opinion, and I don't claim it to be anything more, but I seem to agree with what some others are saying, to a large degree.
Essentially, don't destroy the 'canon' features of the Romulan ships (the biggest being the superior cloaking, IMO) in order to balance 'neat new tricks' that you came up with to make them 'more unique.' It's not that the 'new tricks' are useless or weak or any of that. It's that they are not the canon core of a Romulan ship that most of us are looking for when we choose to play a Romulan.
When we choose to play a Romulan, we expect the canon features of Romulan ships that we grew up watching in the TV episodes. The singularity core powers are not really a part of that. Yes, it was established that the Romulans use a different type of warp core, an artificial singularity, but the fancy in-game powers have little basis in canon, and are not at all what I think of when I think of a Romulan ship. In short, they are not what make the ship 'Romulan,' in my mind.
So first and foremost, give all Romulan ships the superior cloaking ability that -does- come from the canon shows. Make sure they all have that Romulan feel that I am looking for as a long-time fan of Star Trek. Then balance all the other little bells-and-whistles powers so that they bring the whole package in at an acceptable level, in terms of game balance. If something needs to be weakened, let it be the nifty, yet non-canon bits that don't really cry out to being key points of the Romulan experience that I'm looking for.
Just a heads up with some more changes that will be coming to the test servers soon.
-We have reverted the cooldown on Romulan Battle Cloak to 20 seconds.
-The base power levels for most Romulan Warbirds are being reverted to 40 base for each subsystem. The T'liss and T'varo are unaffected by this change.
-We have increased the power level bonuses to ships based on your current Singularity Power. This now goes from +5 at low singularity to +15 at max Singularity (up from +0 to +7.5). This bonus is disabled while your Singularity Powers are on cooldown.
As always, these changes are subject to further possible iterations in the future.
oh, do your power levels get bumped up as you charge up singularity level? and then disapate back to normal after useing a singularity skill?i always thought they should do that, but hadn't noticed if that had happened yet.
oh, do your power levels get bumped up as you charge up singularity level? and then disapate back to normal after useing a singularity skill?i always thought they should do that, but hadn't noticed if that had happened yet.
Only one subsystem sees a bonus as your singularity charges up. Either engines, shields, or auxiliary, depending on what kind of core you have equipped. I don't think there's one for weapons.
Comments
A little clarification of goals for the EPtX thing would be...well...nice.
The ship jumps forward about 3km leaving behind a silly underpowered version of Gravity Well behind. Even on 5th power level it wasn't able to draw an NPC escort-type ship that was just 2km away from it. Also, its damage is so low it didn't even manage to scratch the enemy's fighters.
The potency of this skill should either be significantly increased, or the ship should jump to a position FACING the singularity (so you could do some damage to drawn enemies), not leaving it behind the ship (making it useless for all those d'deridexes and haapaxes).
Warp Shadow - tested it before today's patch, so I'm not sure how significant the changes were, but before that the skill wasn't really impressive, as the shadows didn't move and sometimes weren't able to draw an NPCs attention from the player.
Plasma Shockwave - kind of meh. I realise it's supposed to be mainly Plasma DoT, but still even on the 5th power level the wave wasn't able to destroy high yield torpedos and fighters, while the DoT was so low I couldn't even notice it doing anything to an enemy's ship.
Quantum Absorption - THE ultimate singularity power. Not that's is OP or anything, but from all those four that are available to me at Tier 4 this one I used the most. Basically a temporary heal/buff that kept me alive much longer than I should. Much more useful in "oh ***t" situations than Shadows or Jump. So much in fact that I can't imagine when would I use those two instead.
While I am more inclined to prefer the lower power solution as well. Something I think should pointed out is that the power-solution disproportionately affects lower level play. As gameplay advances, captains will gain skills that really help mitigate the lower power levels [efficiency]. Also coupled with at lower tier ships, the player is getting less utility out of the singularity simply due to not having access to all their perks.
I'm inclined to go 'so what' with the level difference, especially as low level play goes by quickly, and doesn't really have much difficulty in it.
Well said, though there -are- ways of detecting cloaked ships that DO depend on the target cloak's effectiveness.
1. Throw power into aux to buff perception.
2. Spec into Starship Sensors to buff perception.
3. If sci, activate Sensor Scan to (you guessed it) buff perception.
4. Insert whatever other perception buffs I may have failed to notice.
There are however surefire ways of decloaking ships regardless of effectiveness.
1. Gravity well near target. Tricky, except on T'Varo or B'rel captains throwing torpedoes into your front shield.
2. Tractor beam. This only works on T'Varo, B'rel, or ships that are TRYING to cloak.
3. Charged Particle Burst. Decloaks all targets in a certain radius, and damages shields on non-cloaked hostiles. May also work against Mask Energy Signature.
4. Insert other decloaking abilities that I don't know of.
Yes. Blanket changes will SEVERELY impair the performance of the T'Varo or Dhelan (and possibly even Mogai), but will be less of an impediment to the D'Deridex and Ha'apax.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
You've answered your own question here; the issue is the presence of the Singularity abilities themselves that seem to be the problem. Admittedly my issue with this mechanic isn't that you have a charge meter, but that you've added yet more click abilities to an already click-tastic combat system. It really wasn't needed.
The Singularity charge would have been better as a turbo-charge that buffed already existing captain and BOFF space click abilities, with each bar filled increasing those abilities effectiveness by 2 or 3 percent. In addition, Romulan ships should probably have less hull strength and lower shield mods than their Starfleet and Klingon counterparts as well.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
You're expecting the wrong things from it. The Singularity pull is intended to keep the enemy in the vicinity of it, but not necessarily yank it into the center. It's not Gravity Well. What it DOES is apply a perception and accuracy debuff to anyone caught in its effect. How is that useful? That's your "escape into cloak" window. Charge your nearest (or nastiest) enemy and pop Singularity Jump, then cloak, turn, and fire. Even if they can still see you when you initially pop your cloak, they can't hit you. It lasts long enough that you can frequently get turned around in time even if you opt not to cloak.
I've found it very handy to charge the enemy under Evasive Maneuvers while dropping Warp Plasma, then Singularity Jump as soon as I know they're entangled. Between the two slow effects, ships are usually stuck in the plasma and helpless to retaliate until the singularity dissipates, getting mauled by the plasma.
I've found the best use of this (so far, and also have not tested since the patch) is to de-tank yourself...to draw away fire from all but your primary target (who will usually keep aggro on you). It might work better if you stop firing, I'm usually too busy habitually mashing the space bar to see.
It's quite good on a science officer with the Conservation of Energy buff going, but I have found that it does NOT scale well with level. I'm sure having more appropriate gear will help, but devs, you may want to bump up its scaling per level to make sure it's still relevant at 50 (at 40, it really isn't).
You use Singularity Jump and Warp Shadows when you're taking fire from too many targets; in those circumstances, even the QA temporary hit points won't last long, but if they can't hit you (or hit something other than you), you can make your getaway; I don't recommend sticking around and trying to finish them off if you need it for that reason.
Base subsystem power is -10 per subsystem.
Power levels increase as the singularity powers increase until the power penalty is nullified at full singularity power.
Therefore any use of a singularity power comes with the risk of lowering your base powers until they are charged back by the singularity including the cooldown time.
Talk about your must have T'varo Refit console!
The Dhael console would also be a very popular purchase under this scheme.
Have the singularity recharge faster while cloaked, but how much faster is still a question.
This coupled with the decrease in stealth as your singularity charges will force Romulan Captains to decide to break cloak and attack or risk being detected to get full power restored.
That 60% charge to 100% charge time could be a really nervous but exciting experience!
This would also make any enhanced cloak users have to time when to break cloak to restore their stealth for continued torpedo/mine mayhem.
Hmm, this would appear to be counterintuitive for the T'varo Refit console to be a detriment to the T'Varo Retrofit unless singularity powers could be used while cloaked with the torpedo 3 second decloak.
There should be a cooldown for each individual singularity power based on the numbers of available powers.
Single skill ships: 60 second cooldown.
2 skill ships: 90 second cooldown.
3 skill ships: 120 second cooldown.
4 skill ships: 150 second cooldown.
5 skill ships: 180 second cooldown.
This system would prevent a player from spamming a single skill and encourages use of multiple skills in game.
Even with use of the T'varo Refit and Dhael consoles a player would not be able to use the same singularity power more than a player that did not have these consoles, but those who did could use 1 more power within a 3 minute window.
So this balances the reward of having the consoles without overly punishing those that don't.
Having the cloak adversely affected by the singularity makes sense but then having that adverse affect diminished with prolonged use of cloak is counterintuitive.
Reversing how the charging of the singularity works would then fit with the risk/reward of Romulan strategy.
Do I stay cloaked and power up for an Alpha strike and/or a singularity power or am I going to be discovered with my shields down?
Everyone assumed this change was done to nerf the 5 Superior Operative Boff enhancement but we are now made to believe it was done because Romulans ships were too survivable with just the 20 second cool down on cloaks.
There are a lot of experienced players helping with the beta testing and that may account for the higher than desired survival rates.
What may have also been revealed is that with the greater number of science skills on the lower level ships; science is better than engineering or at least enhances it along with the engineering skills for survival.
Certainly there is now adequate availability of TTS and ST for shields and HE for hulls to go along with the usual EPtS and ET and AtS which is not as prevalent in the 1-19 Federation or KDF ships.
Even at Commander the Mogai has 3 science boff skills whereas no other Federation or KDF ship can match that and only the Federation Research Science Vessel exceeds the Mogai with 4 science boff skills and BoPs could only do it while nerfing almost everything else.
If this is really all about Romulan ships being too durable wouldn't that speak to the need to lower ship HP and shields rather than nerf the quintessentially Romulan ability?
Now, if as many were suspecting, the cloaking changes were done in at least a small part due to Boff trait over enhancing, then please just do a Gandalf and set a cloak cooldown point (10 secs),that even with full Superior Operative Boffs, "none shall pass".
This is precisely what needs to be done. Make a minimum cooldown, with the maximum being 20 seconds as usual. There's hardly any point in rendering the cloaks on the T'Varo and Dhelan COMPLETELY useless.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Cloak from what i have tested isn't the reason for the increase survivability with other ship classes, its the singularity ability particularly quantum absorption, and warp shadows. The only way i can see to correct this is either changing said abilities or excepting that warbird have better hit and run then other ship classes, though i could see a lower shield mod for the bop warbird.
The below are examples as I admit I dunno TRIBBLE bout balancing.
If we lose 10 to each system:
Sing charge 0 power lvls: 40/40/40/40
Sing charge 1 power lvls: 42/42/42/42
Sing charge 2 power lvls: 44/44/44/44
Sing charge 3 power lvls: 46/46/46/46
Sing charge 4 power lvls: 48/48/48/48
Sing charge 5 power lvls: 50/50/50/50
If we lose 5 to each system:
Sing charge 0 power lvls: 45/45/45/45
Sing charge 1 power lvls: 45/45/45/45
Sing charge 2 power lvls: 45/45/45/45
Sing charge 3 power lvls: 46/46/46/46
Sing charge 4 power lvls: 48/48/48/48
Sing charge 5 power lvls: 50/50/50/50
The reason you wouldn't get the power bonus's untill sing charge 3 on the -5 to all power is because rom ships should still have to pay for the OPTION of being able to use those powers and still be at a disadvantage for a while after using a ability to "recharge" the core.
Also this would at least HELP in STF's where the higher power lvls may be more useful than the situational singularity abilities
I just do not see how this system would not make most people happy. Romulans that want to use the special abilities that can use them, but if the romulan decides the singularity abilities are not for him then his ship starts off at a disadvantage but then levels out after being in combat a bit. Also this makes the singularity core system more noob friendly for if they don't use the abilities they are not "handicapping" themselves. Kling and Fed ships do not have the power lvls starting off lower but they also NEVER have the option to use the singularity abilities even if they wanted to. Then again knowing me I might be missing something that is obvious to most.
I agree that the lower levels are hit the hardest, but frankly, plasma shockwave and the cloak makes the T'liss so much more powerful than the Miranda it's not funny.
And, as you said, 1-49 is short, 50 is forever...'til next level cap raise, at least.
Equal to Feds and Klingons...except for having a full set of Singularity Powers that can be fired off (at full charge) and the ability to vanish into cloak at any time. Yeah. That's balanced.
Start closer to full power. Drain power as the Singularity takes more and more, to power higher level abilities. Or have it spike drop when you use 4th or 5th level singularity powers. Or both.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
I'm not sure that that should be implemented for the Romulans per se (a lot of ramifications to study, not a heck of a lot of time left before launch), but it would make a VERY interesting mechanic for a future ship system.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
your warbird powerlevels are gimped for balance if you don't want to use singularity powers don't equip the singularity core,that is your opt out option atm, I don't think they will change the entire singularity/warp-core situation to suit you because the reactor types are completly incompatible as it shows in the cores tooltips.
Said it before, will probably say again.
You don't like warbirds? Play an ally or lockbox ship. There. You don't have to use the singularity core. Which is fine, since you're not bothering to understand it, or how to best exploit its features.
I'll say that again. People who dismiss the singularity powers as useless, borderline useless, gimmicks, whatever, ARE NOT TRYING. You want to play exactly the same way you'd play your Federation or your Klingon, and that's fine. You've been given the way to do that. But I (and I suspect the devs) do not place any stock in your feedback since it is clear you are NOT TRYING.
Play it. Work with it. Look at what everything does. Think of how you can best exploit the effects you're given. You'll find there's a LOT more to the singularity powers than you think.
And if you still don't want to, your ally's ships are waiting for you.
I'd love to, but I can't. Didn't get the closed beta invite. :P Instead I and most others have to decide on LoR starter/legacy pack based on what others have said about the powers. I think many are on the fence, they want to invest but without playtesting for themselves they are uneasy about the singularity cores. They could love them or really hate them. -40 is a ton of power to lose across the board. (It may have changed, I'm not to speed without that invite
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
-We have reverted the cooldown on Romulan Battle Cloak to 20 seconds.
-The base power levels for most Romulan Warbirds are being reverted to 40 base for each subsystem. The T'liss and T'varo are unaffected by this change.
-We have increased the power level bonuses to ships based on your current Singularity Power. This now goes from +5 at low singularity to +15 at max Singularity (up from +0 to +7.5). This bonus is disabled while your Singularity Powers are on cooldown.
As always, these changes are subject to further possible iterations in the future.
Essentially, don't destroy the 'canon' features of the Romulan ships (the biggest being the superior cloaking, IMO) in order to balance 'neat new tricks' that you came up with to make them 'more unique.' It's not that the 'new tricks' are useless or weak or any of that. It's that they are not the canon core of a Romulan ship that most of us are looking for when we choose to play a Romulan.
When we choose to play a Romulan, we expect the canon features of Romulan ships that we grew up watching in the TV episodes. The singularity core powers are not really a part of that. Yes, it was established that the Romulans use a different type of warp core, an artificial singularity, but the fancy in-game powers have little basis in canon, and are not at all what I think of when I think of a Romulan ship. In short, they are not what make the ship 'Romulan,' in my mind.
So first and foremost, give all Romulan ships the superior cloaking ability that -does- come from the canon shows. Make sure they all have that Romulan feel that I am looking for as a long-time fan of Star Trek. Then balance all the other little bells-and-whistles powers so that they bring the whole package in at an acceptable level, in terms of game balance. If something needs to be weakened, let it be the nifty, yet non-canon bits that don't really cry out to being key points of the Romulan experience that I'm looking for.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you...thank you
Now the D'deridex and Ha'apax wont be sitting ducks
oh, do your power levels get bumped up as you charge up singularity level? and then disapate back to normal after useing a singularity skill?i always thought they should do that, but hadn't noticed if that had happened yet.
Only one subsystem sees a bonus as your singularity charges up. Either engines, shields, or auxiliary, depending on what kind of core you have equipped. I don't think there's one for weapons.