I've read a lot of great comments in the past few pages and I have to say that there have been a lot of good points made and that Fleet Owners have not made any rational point or that they have refused to call it what it is in reference to them charging a fee to join their fleet.
First, Fleet Owners feel they are justified in charging someone a fee to join their fleet. Well, this argument is bogus in itself because they already have a built starbase and new players are entering the game all the time. Of course they haven't contributed to the starbase because they are new players.
Second, the starbase has been built so any imaginative costs just that, imaginative. T5 fleets have just decided to make income from new members and what better way to do that then to turn starbases into a personal source of in-game income. Call it what it is; GREED!
Third, there was a comment early on that nobody is forcing anyone to pay to enter their fleet. Really? In ESD, I have to read a countless number of ESD chat message with fleet owners offering to sell T5 ships for 10 million EC, fees to join their T5 fleets ... it's turned Federation Starbase Chat Zones into selfless marketing greed for Fleet owners hoping to generate revenue.
But, I keep hearing Fleet Owners trying to justify their charging new members to become a part of their fleet. It really does not cost a single thing to click on a player's username and select "Invite to Fleet". While I have a lot of EC wealth and probably would donate to the fleet I'm in, after a certain period of time has passed, I just don't join fleets who have special "conditions" to joining their fleets.
I personally generate, on average, 100 million in EC every week. While I would gladly share that with whichever fleet I an in, I would not "pay" a fleet for the privilege of joining their fleet. I have been in over 15 fleets since the starbase thing happened and I always end up finding that one arrogant member in the fleet that is abusive, offensive and arrogant to new fleet members, and I've been invited to those fleet by the fleet owners.
When asked why I left, I told them why and they are actually shocked that their members forced a new fleet member to quit. Only 1 fleet out of those 15 I have quit, actually had decent members and the reason I left was the the fleet owner was never active and the starbase wasn't getting built.
possibilitiesare a thing of hope,sometimes it drives us toward something better
wile that is their prerogative I just cannot condone this practice and I support kemcha their view of this but as mattjohnsonva has just stated
regretfully that is the way things are done now. it would be nice if cryptic/pwe put took the time to try and slag this problem wile it is still relativity small i dont see it happening till it starts becoming a major issue so to all those who support this action I have only this to say
enjoy your dirty ec i hope you are captured by orion slavers and fetch a small profit cause what you want to sell access to your fleet ships for is not worth the time it took to code it into the game
Why is it is a problem? There is a demand for a service, and there are people willing to supply that service for a price. The buyers get to get their T5 ship/starbase access without having to grind up their own starbase, and the fleets that are selling access get to make a nice profit. It's a win win for both parties, why is this a bad thing?
Furthermore, regarding the slavers comment, you do realise this is a game and not real right?
I wonder, how woudl you "solve" this problem, without preventing players to do as they want with THEIR fleets. Why people cannot mind their own bussiness ?
Do all the whiners want a free ticket for a T5 base without spending single dil or time in its construction ?
How would you feel if you build your own house, then you would want to rent it, and the local homeless would come and tell you. It is immoral from your to rent the rooms, you should grant us access for free.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
wile that is their prerogative I just cannot condone this practice and I support kemcha their view of this but as mattjohnsonva has just stated regretfully that is the way things are done now. it would be nice if cryptic/pwe put took the time to try and slag this problem wile it is still relativity small i dont see it happening till it starts becoming a major issue so to all those who support this action I have only this to say
enjoy your dirty ec i hope you are captured by orion slavers and fetch a small profit cause what you want to sell access to your fleet ships for is not worth the time it took to code it into the game
Yes, capitalism and returns on investments are totally new things. You should write a... a... manifesto. Maybe about some sort of socially orientated community? You could call it... hmm... socialist communism?
That sounds like it would work. Give it a shot and let us know how it goes.
But you know what? I guess it doesn't matter now does it? By being allowed to visit their studios Cryptic has pretty much signed off on you and your fleet haven't they? They've said in deed what most of us have suspected for years. They're not going to stop you. They're not going to correct you. You won. After long last, you really, really won. STO is yours and no one is going to do a thing about it. Congratulations.
Never before has someone said so little with so much. You know that it takes a long time to grind up a T5 starbase right? It hardly qualifies for the definition of 'fast buck'. Furthermore if they take the time to grind up a T5 starbase, they can do what they damn well please with it, you know, because its their starbase.
Also what on earth does the KDF have to do with anything?
that was not directed at you it was at grimrak1 for their little snide comment. I am well aware of how long it takes to level up a sb to t5. I just dont think people should pimp them for ec but like you said
if they take the time to grind up a T5 starbase, they can do what they damn well please with it, you know, because its their starbase.
thats not going to change I am just expressing my views for 2 reasons
1. I can do as I damn well please
2. I enjoy arguing its fun and it makes life interesting no matter what is said:D
that was not directed at you it was at grimrak1 for their little snide comment. I am well aware of how long it takes to level up a sb to t5. I just dont think people should pimp them for ec but like you said thats not going to change I am just expressing my views for 2 reasons
1. I can do as I damn well please
2. I enjoy arguing its fun and it makes life interesting no matter what is said:D
So you've just confessed to trolling this thread, good to know.
I honestly think this thread could be compiled into whinyselfentitledgamers.txt.
Disproportionate? Let me ask you this: how much refined dlilithium, fleet marks, fleet credits and EC do you think had to go into getting a fleet up to tier 5? If the people who have sunk all those resources to get their fleet up to tier 5 want to charge you to use the their fleet store; then so be it.
Once again. I am not denying the right of people to charge for access to their store. I am merely pointing out that doing so greedy. Anybody who wants to visit our base can do so for free. But then, we don't have a tier 5 base fueled by a direct pipe to our bank accounts and that's really what this is all about isn't it. A strong dislike between people who play STO and people who buy STO.
I've read a lot of great comments in the past few pages and I have to say that there have been a lot of good points made and that Fleet Owners have not made any rational point or that they have refused to call it what it is in reference to them charging a fee to join their fleet.
First, Fleet Owners feel they are justified in charging someone a fee to join their fleet. Well, this argument is bogus in itself because they already have a built starbase and new players are entering the game all the time. Of course they haven't contributed to the starbase because they are new players.
Second, the starbase has been built so any imaginative costs just that, imaginative. T5 fleets have just decided to make income from new members and what better way to do that then to turn starbases into a personal source of in-game income. Call it what it is; GREED!
Third, there was a comment early on that nobody is forcing anyone to pay to enter their fleet. Really? In ESD, I have to read a countless number of ESD chat message with fleet owners offering to sell T5 ships for 10 million EC, fees to join their T5 fleets ... it's turned Federation Starbase Chat Zones into selfless marketing greed for Fleet owners hoping to generate revenue.
But, I keep hearing Fleet Owners trying to justify their charging new members to become a part of their fleet. It really does not cost a single thing to click on a player's username and select "Invite to Fleet". While I have a lot of EC wealth and probably would donate to the fleet I'm in, after a certain period of time has passed, I just don't join fleets who have special "conditions" to joining their fleets.
I personally generate, on average, 100 million in EC every week. While I would gladly share that with whichever fleet I an in, I would not "pay" a fleet for the privilege of joining their fleet. I have been in over 15 fleets since the starbase thing happened and I always end up finding that one arrogant member in the fleet that is abusive, offensive and arrogant to new fleet members, and I've been invited to those fleet by the fleet owners.
When asked why I left, I told them why and they are actually shocked that their members forced a new fleet member to quit. Only 1 fleet out of those 15 I have quit, actually had decent members and the reason I left was the the fleet owner was never active and the starbase wasn't getting built.
Going to have to go with that "never before had so much been used to say so little" reply from before. how DARE people sink a lot of resources into doing something and have the gall to try and recuperate some of that cost or, gasp, make a PROFIT off of their efforts.
Indeed, how dare anyone try to actually play the economy game in this MMO. That never happens in ANY MMO!
None of these fleets are charging people to join them, you sad, angry little man. They're charging people to access their shipyards or fleet stores. That sometimes requires, briefly, joining that fleet. Although I've always been careful to make it clear that there's no recruiting going on and that staying isn't an option, no matter how much some of them wanted to.
Seriously your entire argument seems to be rage at the idea of an organization exerting massive effort then having the unmitigated gall to expect compensation for others wanting to enjoy the fruits of their labor. If you seriously made 100m or more a week you'd of just made your purchase(s) and gone off to enjoy your new toys. Or put that money into getting another fleet up. Buy cxp boosters for your fleetmates so they can run the cxp->fleetmark missions more. Buy contraband and start grinding up some dilithium farming alts. Buy the DOFFs for everyone to shovel into the furnace. Go on. We'll wait for you to go all Randian Captain of Industry on us, get a fleet to T5, and dictate the terms of how its resources will be used. Then those filthy poors in lesser fleets will know their better, unable to join a better fleet long enough to get the things they want.
Seriously, your entire argument sounds like flawed, impotent rage that someone would dare do something you're not in a position yourself to do. Arguing that sunk costs meant it was pointless and greedy to charge at all for access to someone else's resources was adorable, too.
Also 100m per week? Seriously? I was making twice that per day at the peak of my ship sales. Sometimes more over the weekend.
Once again. I am not denying the right of people to charge for access to their store. I am merely pointing out that doing so greedy. Anybody who wants to visit our base can do so for free. But then, we don't have a tier 5 base fueled by a direct pipe to our bank accounts and that's really what this is all about isn't it. A strong dislike between people who play STO and people who buy STO.
Thats exactly what this is. Granted I both play and buy I have no real issues with it either but I belive that people should now sell access to the stuff they get. If they wanna pump real cash into the game then thats their right but by no means should they expect a turnover for it. its like those noobs who pop in on esd or ds9 every now and then posting stuff like plevel 1-50 10 mill ec or pay x amount of real cash for x amount of ec its just stupid also there is no real way to garentee that you will get the ship they could take your hard earned ec and not even give you a bloody thing
thanx for the fun all who argued with me hope we can do this again sometime
But you know what? I guess it doesn't matter now does it? By being allowed to visit their studios Cryptic has pretty much signed off on you and your fleet haven't they? They've said in deed what most of us have suspected for years. They're not going to stop you. They're not going to correct you. You won. After long last, you really, really won. STO is yours and no one is going to do a thing about it. Congratulations.
10 million EC is pocket change, not that fleet ships are worth it unless you actually pvp
I don't know where it says people aren't allowed to sell stuff and make a profit - and even if you got leaders out there not sharing the wealth with their fleet how is that your problem?
How do you make it into pocket change? If you got a magical EC making machine, please tell the rest of us
Also, I do not like this access selling, but I also don't really care. If somebody is rich , he may like this approach as he can easily buy a lot of lockbox keys and sell it for EC.
You are not FORCED to join these fleets. You are totally free to join a fleet that does not require any fee.
If the access invite spam in zone chat annoys you, the ignore list is your tool of the day.
Don't like the shady dealings? Do not participate. Find a fleet that is free.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Ah but going down that last route would make me a heartless and a greedy TRIBBLE. Of course it would, how silly of me. Please PM me and I will send you my home address, please come and take anything you want from my home that I have spent 30 years building, it's not much but clearly you guys are more deserving than I. My kids and me will live under a bridge so you guys can get your stuff for free.
Jeez!
Ah but you already paid for everything you have so you shouldn't be able to get any compensation for it you vile capitalist!
Remember, charging a price in exchange for goods is just pure evil greed!
I see nothing wrong with Fleets trying to get back what they put into making their starbase/embassy. If you think you're entitled to join a fleet to get anything and everything for free without pitching in then you're living in a dream world. So them selling stuff to people from their fleet stores is fair imo.
I don't get anyone who would be against this, except they think they're entitled to fleet stores without pitching in. Being a freeloader isn't really something to be proud about OP. If you want good stuff from mid to high level fleets then join one and pitch in till you meet their self emposed minimal requirement of contributions. At least then you earned the right to complain. lol
Remember, charging a price in exchange for goods is just pure evil greed!
I think you're making a slight mistake here. What appears to to the layman to be page after page of tortured analogies and cries of poverty when correctly translated into Pubese actually just means "I want. Gimme."
This isn't a scam it's charging for services provided. My local movie theater charges $10 of real money for access, is that a scam? Honestly 10 mil EC is a pittance compared to the cost of unlocking tier 5 access.
Do you really feel entitled to free access to starbase amenities that you have contributed nothing to building? Talk about entitlement Welcome to the real world, please enjoy your stay.
You can very easily ignore fleets like this. There are many, many, many fleets out there who don't charge a fee to join or have minimum contribution requirements etc. Find one of them and enjoy your game time.
Yes, please find a fleet that has an open door policy and abuse it. Join them, get your stuff and then leave. Because you are entitled to use the services that was made available by the work and resources of others without you having to contribute anything at all. Isn't life grand when you don't have to lift a finger and get others to do the work for you? Find one of them, use them and enjoy your game time.
You can very easily ignore fleets like this. There are many, many, many fleets out there who don't charge a fee to join or have minimum contribution requirements etc. Find one of them and enjoy your game time.
Do you know of a fleet that will provide people with elite Yellowstone pets free of charge?
A fleet which charges a fee to join is not a fleet you should want to be a part of.
A fleet which charges you a fee to access their starbase to buy high tier goods or which has some minimum membership period or fleet contribution level before high tier goods can be accessed is just exercising common sense.
Otherwise, you have what you see right now: self centered players who think that they should be welcomed into a high tier fleet after contributing nothing, and reaping all of the rewards.
If you're some one who doesn't want to be in a fleet, that's fine. 10m or even 25m to access high tier items is a BARGAIN compared to what the average member in such a fleet has probably contributed over time, especially since you didn't have to contribute anything until the project was done.
I appreciate fleets like Spectre that have opened up their stores for a fee, because it gives the solo or small fleet players a chance at this gear. At the same time, they'd be stupid to give up for free, and it would be extremely disrespectful to their long time members.
If you think this is a "scam" or a "ripoff" then don't buy it. Go spend that 10m or 25m on your own starbase, and let us know how much progress that bought you. Your sense of entitlement is just a sense, it's not reality.
How do you make it into pocket change? If you got a magical EC making machine, please tell the rest of us
10m is a week's worth of earnings on one character, if that's your main goal. It's not sitting in the couch cushions, but it's not unobtainable. You'll spend a lot more than that on the Dilithium you use just to buy T5 gear and/or the FCs to buy that gear.
I just dropped 75m the other day to buy a Recluse Carrier. Think I'm going to complain about 10m or even 25m to get access to the elite Mesh Weaver hangars? Give me a break. Yea, that's a week or two worth of grinding on a single character, but so what? That tier 5 fleet took a lot longer than a week or two of grinding.
But all those resources have already been spent. People seem to have a huge issue with the idea of sunk versus marginal costs here.
There is no cost (other than your time, very marginal indeed) to invite a billion people to your starbase map to buy stuff. No cost at all.
The actual "cost" is entirely front-loaded and has already been paid for. What resources it took to get there are economically irrelevant.
First of all, "time" is not a "very marginal" cost. Time is the main resource that human beings trade in. Money itself is just a commodity that measures time spent/human labor. I guess you can say that time is a marginal cost in the pure economic sense, but in the pure economic sense, any cost is marginal. "Marginal" doesn't mean "without value" it just means that it is measurable in discrete units.
Second, the principle of "sunk cost" is that you shouldn't use past costs when calculating the marginal return on future investment. However, if you're advocating a completely rational system for pricing, then the correct price for fleet access will never be "free" since the best marginal returns will be according to supply and demand. Right now, T5 fleets have near monopoly pricing power. The fact that they "only" charge 10m or so for shopping access is probably too low since the market will bear more and they can always go after the lower echelons of the market once the early adopters have paid a premium.
You seem aware of certain economic principles, but either unwilling or unable to apply economics more broadly to the situation.
P.S.-- I apologize for the multiple posts. There was a lot to respond to. I wish there was some way to consolidate posts after the fact.
Comments
First, Fleet Owners feel they are justified in charging someone a fee to join their fleet. Well, this argument is bogus in itself because they already have a built starbase and new players are entering the game all the time. Of course they haven't contributed to the starbase because they are new players.
Second, the starbase has been built so any imaginative costs just that, imaginative. T5 fleets have just decided to make income from new members and what better way to do that then to turn starbases into a personal source of in-game income. Call it what it is; GREED!
Third, there was a comment early on that nobody is forcing anyone to pay to enter their fleet. Really? In ESD, I have to read a countless number of ESD chat message with fleet owners offering to sell T5 ships for 10 million EC, fees to join their T5 fleets ... it's turned Federation Starbase Chat Zones into selfless marketing greed for Fleet owners hoping to generate revenue.
But, I keep hearing Fleet Owners trying to justify their charging new members to become a part of their fleet. It really does not cost a single thing to click on a player's username and select "Invite to Fleet". While I have a lot of EC wealth and probably would donate to the fleet I'm in, after a certain period of time has passed, I just don't join fleets who have special "conditions" to joining their fleets.
I personally generate, on average, 100 million in EC every week. While I would gladly share that with whichever fleet I an in, I would not "pay" a fleet for the privilege of joining their fleet. I have been in over 15 fleets since the starbase thing happened and I always end up finding that one arrogant member in the fleet that is abusive, offensive and arrogant to new fleet members, and I've been invited to those fleet by the fleet owners.
When asked why I left, I told them why and they are actually shocked that their members forced a new fleet member to quit. Only 1 fleet out of those 15 I have quit, actually had decent members and the reason I left was the the fleet owner was never active and the starbase wasn't getting built.
Why is it is a problem? There is a demand for a service, and there are people willing to supply that service for a price. The buyers get to get their T5 ship/starbase access without having to grind up their own starbase, and the fleets that are selling access get to make a nice profit. It's a win win for both parties, why is this a bad thing?
Furthermore, regarding the slavers comment, you do realise this is a game and not real right?
Do all the whiners want a free ticket for a T5 base without spending single dil or time in its construction ?
How would you feel if you build your own house, then you would want to rent it, and the local homeless would come and tell you. It is immoral from your to rent the rooms, you should grant us access for free.
Yes, capitalism and returns on investments are totally new things. You should write a... a... manifesto. Maybe about some sort of socially orientated community? You could call it... hmm... socialist communism?
That sounds like it would work. Give it a shot and let us know how it goes.
Read that link. It tells you exactly how much it costs to get to tier 5. And you seem to think paying a measly 10 million ec is too much.
http://www.stowiki.org/User:MatthewM/FleetCosts
that was not directed at you it was at grimrak1 for their little snide comment. I am well aware of how long it takes to level up a sb to t5. I just dont think people should pimp them for ec but like you said thats not going to change I am just expressing my views for 2 reasons
1. I can do as I damn well please
2. I enjoy arguing its fun and it makes life interesting no matter what is said:D
So you've just confessed to trolling this thread, good to know.
I honestly think this thread could be compiled into whinyselfentitledgamers.txt.
Once again. I am not denying the right of people to charge for access to their store. I am merely pointing out that doing so greedy. Anybody who wants to visit our base can do so for free. But then, we don't have a tier 5 base fueled by a direct pipe to our bank accounts and that's really what this is all about isn't it. A strong dislike between people who play STO and people who buy STO.
Going to have to go with that "never before had so much been used to say so little" reply from before. how DARE people sink a lot of resources into doing something and have the gall to try and recuperate some of that cost or, gasp, make a PROFIT off of their efforts.
Indeed, how dare anyone try to actually play the economy game in this MMO. That never happens in ANY MMO!
None of these fleets are charging people to join them, you sad, angry little man. They're charging people to access their shipyards or fleet stores. That sometimes requires, briefly, joining that fleet. Although I've always been careful to make it clear that there's no recruiting going on and that staying isn't an option, no matter how much some of them wanted to.
Seriously your entire argument seems to be rage at the idea of an organization exerting massive effort then having the unmitigated gall to expect compensation for others wanting to enjoy the fruits of their labor. If you seriously made 100m or more a week you'd of just made your purchase(s) and gone off to enjoy your new toys. Or put that money into getting another fleet up. Buy cxp boosters for your fleetmates so they can run the cxp->fleetmark missions more. Buy contraband and start grinding up some dilithium farming alts. Buy the DOFFs for everyone to shovel into the furnace. Go on. We'll wait for you to go all Randian Captain of Industry on us, get a fleet to T5, and dictate the terms of how its resources will be used. Then those filthy poors in lesser fleets will know their better, unable to join a better fleet long enough to get the things they want.
Seriously, your entire argument sounds like flawed, impotent rage that someone would dare do something you're not in a position yourself to do. Arguing that sunk costs meant it was pointless and greedy to charge at all for access to someone else's resources was adorable, too.
Also 100m per week? Seriously? I was making twice that per day at the peak of my ship sales. Sometimes more over the weekend.
Thats exactly what this is. Granted I both play and buy I have no real issues with it either but I belive that people should now sell access to the stuff they get. If they wanna pump real cash into the game then thats their right but by no means should they expect a turnover for it. its like those noobs who pop in on esd or ds9 every now and then posting stuff like plevel 1-50 10 mill ec or pay x amount of real cash for x amount of ec its just stupid also there is no real way to garentee that you will get the ship they could take your hard earned ec and not even give you a bloody thing
thanx for the fun all who argued with me hope we can do this again sometime
After paying so many resources to get to tier 5, you think a mere few million ec is greedy? :rolleyes:
http://www.stowiki.org/User:MatthewM/FleetCosts
Read that then talk about how greedy they're being.
So you're saying that those fleets were not motivated by self interest and speculative profiteering?
I don't know where it says people aren't allowed to sell stuff and make a profit - and even if you got leaders out there not sharing the wealth with their fleet how is that your problem?
How do you make it into pocket change? If you got a magical EC making machine, please tell the rest of us
Also, I do not like this access selling, but I also don't really care. If somebody is rich , he may like this approach as he can easily buy a lot of lockbox keys and sell it for EC.
You are not FORCED to join these fleets. You are totally free to join a fleet that does not require any fee.
If the access invite spam in zone chat annoys you, the ignore list is your tool of the day.
Don't like the shady dealings? Do not participate. Find a fleet that is free.
Honestly more valuable then EC in most cases.
Ah but you already paid for everything you have so you shouldn't be able to get any compensation for it you vile capitalist!
Remember, charging a price in exchange for goods is just pure evil greed!
I don't get anyone who would be against this, except they think they're entitled to fleet stores without pitching in. Being a freeloader isn't really something to be proud about OP. If you want good stuff from mid to high level fleets then join one and pitch in till you meet their self emposed minimal requirement of contributions. At least then you earned the right to complain. lol
I think you're making a slight mistake here. What appears to to the layman to be page after page of tortured analogies and cries of poverty when correctly translated into Pubese actually just means "I want. Gimme."
Do you really feel entitled to free access to starbase amenities that you have contributed nothing to building? Talk about entitlement Welcome to the real world, please enjoy your stay.
Yes, please find a fleet that has an open door policy and abuse it. Join them, get your stuff and then leave. Because you are entitled to use the services that was made available by the work and resources of others without you having to contribute anything at all. Isn't life grand when you don't have to lift a finger and get others to do the work for you? Find one of them, use them and enjoy your game time.
Do you know of a fleet that will provide people with elite Yellowstone pets free of charge?
A fleet which charges you a fee to access their starbase to buy high tier goods or which has some minimum membership period or fleet contribution level before high tier goods can be accessed is just exercising common sense.
Otherwise, you have what you see right now: self centered players who think that they should be welcomed into a high tier fleet after contributing nothing, and reaping all of the rewards.
If you're some one who doesn't want to be in a fleet, that's fine. 10m or even 25m to access high tier items is a BARGAIN compared to what the average member in such a fleet has probably contributed over time, especially since you didn't have to contribute anything until the project was done.
I appreciate fleets like Spectre that have opened up their stores for a fee, because it gives the solo or small fleet players a chance at this gear. At the same time, they'd be stupid to give up for free, and it would be extremely disrespectful to their long time members.
If you think this is a "scam" or a "ripoff" then don't buy it. Go spend that 10m or 25m on your own starbase, and let us know how much progress that bought you. Your sense of entitlement is just a sense, it's not reality.
10m is a week's worth of earnings on one character, if that's your main goal. It's not sitting in the couch cushions, but it's not unobtainable. You'll spend a lot more than that on the Dilithium you use just to buy T5 gear and/or the FCs to buy that gear.
I just dropped 75m the other day to buy a Recluse Carrier. Think I'm going to complain about 10m or even 25m to get access to the elite Mesh Weaver hangars? Give me a break. Yea, that's a week or two worth of grinding on a single character, but so what? That tier 5 fleet took a lot longer than a week or two of grinding.
First of all, "time" is not a "very marginal" cost. Time is the main resource that human beings trade in. Money itself is just a commodity that measures time spent/human labor. I guess you can say that time is a marginal cost in the pure economic sense, but in the pure economic sense, any cost is marginal. "Marginal" doesn't mean "without value" it just means that it is measurable in discrete units.
Second, the principle of "sunk cost" is that you shouldn't use past costs when calculating the marginal return on future investment. However, if you're advocating a completely rational system for pricing, then the correct price for fleet access will never be "free" since the best marginal returns will be according to supply and demand. Right now, T5 fleets have near monopoly pricing power. The fact that they "only" charge 10m or so for shopping access is probably too low since the market will bear more and they can always go after the lower echelons of the market once the early adopters have paid a premium.
You seem aware of certain economic principles, but either unwilling or unable to apply economics more broadly to the situation.
P.S.-- I apologize for the multiple posts. There was a lot to respond to. I wish there was some way to consolidate posts after the fact.