We aren't talking about people actually getting scammed, we are arguing against the idea that selling access to a fleet starbase's resources is immoral and a scam. A lot of people seem to think the topic is about actually paying to be a member of a fleet, this isn't the subject at hand.
The idea is simple, a player decides he wants some elite pets, Yellowstones for example. He has two choices, he can either wait for his own fleet to grind the required Starbase, or he can pay a modest fee (say 10M) and acquire those pets off another fleet's starbase.
It's a win win for both parties, the player gets his pets without having to wait the for enormous grind, and the fleet who sold access gets a nice bit of money in the bank to offset their enormous expenditure from getting to that point.
Some overly entitled spongers in this thread seem to think this shouldn't be allowed, and do not comprehend the concept of supply and demand. Right now fleets that charge high fees for access can do so because they have a near monopoly on availability. Once more fleets reach that level the price will come down because supply will increase in relation to demand.
Now obviously if people are getting scammed out of their money with nothing to show for it, then that is wrong. However, the big fleets selling access (Task Force Spectre and 1st Aquarius Division) haven't been scamming anyone, because as some people have pointed out there is nothing for these fleets to lose by doing so, and scamming people would only cost them more customers and a lot of EC.
I'm no fan of Starfleet Dental but you are more or less right on the money so to say with this. I think the price being charged for elite pets are very high but then again TFS are the only Fed base there, they've sunk in a lot of resources etc etc.
Ultimately it's down to you the player. You want those elite pets now? Pay up what they're asking. You don't want to pay that? Just wait a few months till more fleets get to T5 sci and I dare say you could get them for free (well only the cost from the store) depending on how little of a jack*** you are.
Unlike some things in STO these are not limited time and it is not being denied to you on a permanent basis so a little patience and you will get it.
I doubt Cryptic will allow this to go on for much longer now its been highlighted, the exchange is there to allow for this type of thing, i doubt Cryptic would want a unregulated market in their game making masses of EC outside the offical method, too many potential problems with this.
I doubt Cryptic will allow this to go on for much longer now its been highlighted, the exchange is there to allow for this type of thing, i doubt Cryptic would want a unregulated market in their game making masses of EC outside the offical method, too many potential problems with this.
And how do you suppose they regulate it? More to the point, why do you feel that after spending over half a BILLION EC the fleet shouldn't be allowed to charge for the privilege of letting someone bypass the grind of reaching T5 themselves?
Ignorance is an obstacle not an excuse
Let the stupid suffer
And how do you suppose they regulate it? More to the point, why do you feel that after spending over half a BILLION EC the fleet shouldn't be allowed to charge for the privilege of letting someone bypass the grind of reaching T5 themselves?
^^I dont think STO or Cryptic give anybody the entitlment or right to open and run a third party marketplace within STO, that's why the exchange exists, what has happened here was obviously not thought of when they brought the fleets into being, and i doubt they will allow them to continue much longer now the practice has been highlighted.
How will they regulate it, quite simply take away the ability to instantly access T5 stuff the min you join a T5 fleet, then put a min limit of of how much somebody has to contibute to said fleet before they can access T5 stuff, that way the fleet still gains all round and the people wanting T5 stuff gain what they want, and all above board with no comebacks.
^^I dont think STO or Cryptic give anybody the entitlment or right to open and run a third party marketplace within STO, that's why the exchange exists, what has happened here was obviously not thought of when they brought the fleets into being, and i doubt they will allow them to continue much longer now the practice has been highlighted.
How will they regulate it, quite simply take away the ability to instantly access T5 stuff the min you join a T5 fleet, then put a min limit of of how much somebody has to contibute to said fleet before they can access T5 stuff, that way the fleet still gains all round and the people wanting T5 stuff gain what they want, and all above board with no comebacks.
Everybody wins.
That restriction is already in place: you need fleet credits to buy stuff from the fleet store. Now, fleet credits stay with you across fleets, maybe you are talking about having them get wiped when you change fleets. IIRC that was the original implementation but was scrapped by people getting kicked out of fleets and suddenly having to start all over from nothing. Also kind of dicks over alts if the minimum to buy is higher than what it takes to earn the fleet credits.
Also, it still wouldn't stop fleets from charging for invites.
Ignorance is an obstacle not an excuse
Let the stupid suffer
^^I dont think STO or Cryptic give anybody the entitlment or right to open and run a third party marketplace within STO, that's why the exchange exists, what has happened here was obviously not thought of when they brought the fleets into being, and i doubt they will allow them to continue much longer now the practice has been highlighted.
How will they regulate it, quite simply take away the ability to instantly access T5 stuff the min you join a T5 fleet, then put a min limit of of how much somebody has to contibute to said fleet before they can access T5 stuff, that way the fleet still gains all round and the people wanting T5 stuff gain what they want, and all above board with no comebacks.
Everybody wins.
Good morning, sunshine!
To help you understand the very simple topic of discussion in this thread, I can assure you that the fleet(s) in question are not running a 'third party marketplace within STO' as they are not selling anything. They are simply granting temporary fleet membership to players who have otherwise contributed zero to the fleet's growth. By accepting temporary membership and contributing the negotiated amount of EC, you are granted access to purchase the in-game items available to fleet members of the appropriate rank. It is all above board, although you may be permitted to come back at a future time after your temporary membership has expired.
If you think the fee charged by the fleet for granting temporary membership to you is too high, then perhaps you should refrain from whining about it on the forums and instead spend your time leveling up your own fleet where you can decide how best to manage your own fleet's membership.
So many fleets do this kind of selling. As a fleet Leader myself, I hate it. Even now we are finishing the T3 starbase final upgrade (the Transwarp Conduit, 6 days), I will not try to make any money by offering fleet invites.
I know that there are certain fleets who are selling Fleet ships. I once asked for the price of a Fleet Aquarius, just for the fun of knowing. I grew sick when I heard the 23 mil price for a ship which is weaker in all aspects than the Fleet Saber. At that time I was a rank below the Fleet Leader (now I am a Leader), but I decided to never ever go around selling Fleet ships. I would rather work for months on our Shipyard than buy a fleet ship.
Unfortunately, there are other fleets who don't think this way. And unfortunately, the only thing that can be done against it is refusing their offers. Cryptic/PWE stated that they won't interfere in Fleet management, and personally I think that that is a wise decision.
What could be done is warning every player of the risks and dangers involved, while offering them free access to any fleet you might be in.
For those of you who don't know this already, there is a way to access higher tier starbases while staying in the fleet you are already in and without paying money: the "Public Service" channel. I didn't start this channel, but it allows players to get invites for Tuffli freighters, D'kora Marauders, Embassy's and Fleet Starbases. For free.
The moment Starbase invites went live for this channel, I gave all of my fleet ranks the permission to invite non-members to fleet-owned maps. For fleet leaders who are considering this as well, don't worry: non-members don't take away your provisions, only the provisions of their own fleet.
For people searching for another fleets starbase: you get access to all of their unlocks, except for the Fleet Shipyard. You can only buy fleet ships your fleet has access to.
So many fleets do this kind of selling. As a fleet Leader myself, I hate it. Even now we are finishing the T3 starbase final upgrade (the Transwarp Conduit, 6 days), I will not try to make any money by offering fleet invites.
I know that there are certain fleets who are selling Fleet ships. I once asked for the price of a Fleet Aquarius, just for the fun of knowing. I grew sick when I heard the 23 mil price for a ship which is weaker in all aspects than the Fleet Saber. At that time I was a rank below the Fleet Leader (now I am a Leader), but I decided to never ever go around selling Fleet ships. I would rather work for months on our Shipyard than buy a fleet ship.
Great! Now all you need to do is get a a time machine and go back to a time when people would be excited by a T3 starbase. You won't make any money by offering fleet invites because your fleet has nothing worth offering. 1st Aquarius Division has a T5 shipyard, Task Force Spectre has T5 science. They have a near monopoly on this and can charge prices to reflect that. If you know another fleet with T5 science who will allow people onto their base for free to acquire elite pets, then by all means share it with us.
Or is this the reason why you don't like the idea that people sell access to their fleet's resources? You can't do it yourself because your fleet doesn't have a service worth selling so you don't want anyone else to.
Now back onto topic, as i said, make a limited time and contributions limit for new players joining fleets, solves any issue and stops all this off the radar EC transactions, charging for store access today, charging a subscription to remain in the fleet tommorrow, greed and avarice can get out of hand if not controlled to a certain degree.
Now back onto topic, as i said, make a limited time and contributions limit for new players joining fleets, solves any issue and stops all this off the radar EC transactions, charging for store access today, charging a subscription to remain in the fleet tommorrow, greed and avarice can get out of hand if not controlled to a certain degree.
Just my opinion.
By your logic, any transaction that is not carried out through the exchange is unregulated and should be stopped. So by that same logic any private transaction for goods or services shouldn't be allowed.
Please explain how private transactions are a problem in the game.
Now back onto topic, as i said, make a limited time and contributions limit for new players joining fleets, solves any issue and stops all this off the radar EC transactions, charging for store access today, charging a subscription to remain in the fleet tommorrow, greed and avarice can get out of hand if not controlled to a certain degree.
I believe Devs should stay out of how fleets are handled. If a fleet wants to sell it's resources, why should they be allowed. It's their fleet, they are the ones who invested time and resources. You're making an argument and using an unknown variable as a fact to support yourself.
It's like saying "I might get hit by a car, best not to leave the house today."
If a fleet starts charging it's members "rent" to remain the fleet. I'd suggest those members reevaluate their loyalty to said fleet.
You want Cryptic to gate people because you don't like it... As I stated earlier I purchased a ship from another fleet. I paid them the agreed upon amount and we were both happy. I don't see how this is abuse... its a free market..
[QUOTE=ludikro;9547831By your logic, any transaction that is not carried out through the exchange is unregulated and should be stopped. So by that same logic any private transaction for goods or services shouldn't be allowed.
Please explain how private transactions are a problem in the game.[/QUOTE]
I am merely stating the pletroa of issues that could, by allowing fleets, or anybody in this game to operate in such a manner, so i suspect they will at some point refine it so that you cannot simply join and access T5 stuff, that simply stops the issue in its tracks stone dead.
Now back onto topic, as i said, make a limited time and contributions limit for new players joining fleets, solves any issue and stops all this off the radar EC transactions, charging for store access today, charging a subscription to remain in the fleet tommorrow, greed and avarice can get out of hand if not controlled to a certain degree.
There's nothing in your suggestion that would prevent fleet leaders from extorting money from the fleet anyway. You get invited, you contribute to grind out the 20k credits to buy the ship and the day before the system grants you access the fleet leader says "pay me 20million or get kicked". Your solution solves NOTHING.
Ignorance is an obstacle not an excuse
Let the stupid suffer
Let's keep the conversation civil. There's no need for further hostility here.
Please show some respect for other people's opinions, even if you don't agree with them.
Stick with the facts -- Please don't speculate about other people's motivations.
When referring to other forum users, please leave off any personal references to beliefs, feelings, behavior, intelligence, character, skills, etc.
Any post that's been crafted to provoke an angry reaction is trolling and is subject to moderation, warnings, and infractions. PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO TROLL POSTS! Report them.
If you are responsible for a post that breaks the rules, please take responsibility to go back and take out the inflammatory language. Otherwise, the Mods will have to exercise their responsibilities.
Read the rules (see above)
Thanks in advance for your cooperation!
Live Long and Prosper,
Bluegeek
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
By your logic, any transaction that is not carried out through the exchange is unregulated and should be stopped. So by that same logic any private transaction for goods or services shouldn't be allowed.
Please explain how private transactions are a problem in the game.
That's what happens in a free market; and I would prefer that kind of thing happening to Cryptic getting involved and instituting their own way of making money off such transactions. But what you fail to realize is this: for every fleet that will charge fees, there will be others that don't. That will never evolve to create a problem, especially the one you think is going to happen.
But the gist of this argument is very simple: some people think they should not have to contribute anything to a fleet that has spent a lot of time and resources in getting to tier 5 to enjoy the services available from those fleets. To me that is being selfish and having a huge sense of entitlement to something you had nothing in making. You don't like that these guys are charging a fee to use their services; then by all means, find somewhere else (if you can) or build a tier 5 base yourself.
My fleet is on it's way to tier 5 and to be honest; I'd be very displeased if we started to sell access to our base. But in the same vein, I would also be very angry if just anyone could walk into our base and buy stuff there without having contributing anything to our fleet. I know the other officers and leaders feel the same, so I'm not worried about that eventuality.
I see fleets charging a fee to access a base a simple way of telling you: "Since you don't want to join us and contribute (or weren't here to contribute), pay this small indemnity to use our services." If some do it out of greed; then that too is their right... when you calculate the enormous effort and resources that went into making a tier 5 starbase; that measely 10 million EC is nothing in comparison.
There's nothing in your suggestion that would prevent fleet leaders from extorting money from the fleet anyway. You get invited, you contribute to grind out the 20k credits to buy the ship and the day before the system grants you access the fleet leader says "pay me 20million or get kicked". Your solution solves NOTHING.
Bingo!!!
So if safeguards inplace cant stop these kind of things happening, just imagine the issues waiting to appear without any safeguards in place as we have now.
So if safeguards inplace cant stop these kind of things happening, just imagine the issues waiting to appear without any safeguards in place as we have now.
Be careful what you ask for; hardcoded 'safeguards' have a nasty way of coming back to bite you in the behind.
That's what happens in a free market; and I would prefer that kind of thing happening to Cryptic getting involved and instituting their own way of making money off such transactions. But what you fail to realize is this: for every fleet that will charge fees, there will be others that don't. That will never evolve to create a problem, especially the one you think is going to happen.
But the gist of this argument is very simple: some people think they should not have to contribute anything to a fleet that has spent a lot of time and resources in getting to tier 5 to enjoy the services available from those fleets. To me that is being selfish and having a huge sense of entitlement to something you had nothing in making. You don't like that these guys are charging a fee to use their services; then by all means, find somewhere else (if you can) or build a tier 5 base yourself.
My fleet is on it's way to tier 5 and to be honest; I'd be very displeased if we started to sell access to our base. But in the same vein, I would also be very angry if just anyone could walk into our base and buy stuff there without having contributing anything to our fleet. I know the other officers and leaders feel the same, so I'm not worried about that eventuality.
I see fleets charging a fee to access a base a simple way of telling you: "Since you don't want to join us and contribute (or weren't here to contribute), pay this small indemnity to use our services." If some do it out of greed; then that too is their right... when you calculate the enormous effort and resources that went into making a tier 5 starbase; that measely 10 million EC is nothing in comparison.
The mindset of my fleet is this, we'll invite anyone onto the base to purchase from our stores for free. This cost us zero resources, so its really a matter of if someone can invite. To purchase a ship requires joining and being allowed access. It will also being using our own fleet resources, at that point a bargain for the item will be struck.
My fleet will never charge its members "rent" of any kind to remain in the fleet. Every Fleet needs to decide how it will function in the changing economy. I'd prefer if Cryptic/PWE stayed out of fleet business as they've always been.
So if safeguards inplace cant stop these kind of things happening, just imagine the issues waiting to appear without any safeguards in place as we have now.
The stupid hurts. As it is now: you pay and the fleet doesnt give you access. Your solution: you pay and the fleet doesn't give you access.
How on God's green earth is your proposal better than nothing?
Ignorance is an obstacle not an excuse
Let the stupid suffer
The stupid hurts. As it is now: you pay and the fleet doesnt give you access. Your solution: you pay and the fleet doesn't give you access.
How on God's green earth is your proposal better than nothing?
Point being if even with safguards in place the system can be abused, then imagine the level of abuse with nothing in place, as per my initial point.
So if safeguards inplace cant stop these kind of things happening, just imagine the issues waiting to appear without any safeguards in place as we have now.
Then tell us exactly what 'safeguards' you would put in place, given that there isn't actually any real issue apart from people complaining that they cannot freeload off of others.
Let's keep the conversation civil. There's no need for further hostility here.
Please show some respect for other people's opinions, even if you don't agree with them.
Stick with the facts -- Please don't speculate about other people's motivations.
When referring to other forum users, please leave off any personal references to beliefs, feelings, behavior, intelligence, character, skills, etc.
Any post that's been crafted to provoke an angry reaction is trolling and is subject to moderation, warnings, and infractions. PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO TROLL POSTS! Report them.
If you are responsible for a post that breaks the rules, please take responsibility to go back and take out the inflammatory language. Otherwise, the Mods will have to exercise their responsibilities.
Read the rules (see above)
Thanks in advance for your cooperation!
Live Long and Prosper,
Bluegeek
My own observations:
A:
Part of these problems is that yes, most of the time what is seen in the in game chat, is not people asking for money in order to join a fleet, but rather to come on board and make purchases. for those who don't wish the drama and hastle clans, fleets, guilds sometimes cause, since they have likely been burned by this before, it is a viable alternative. i think the person making the original complaint has either misunderstood the advertizing in the first place, or has started this thread because he disagrees with people selling fleet gear to those not in fleets (and thus not deserving it in his opinion) and sees trying to flag a problem with cryptic/PW where there is none as a solution.
B.
There are either several individuals, or perhaps just a few operating under different accounts, or characters/factions, that have been recently starting 'discussions' thinly vieled as topics in regards to people demanding their 'right' to force someone to let them join a fleet, or what not, as an example, but are actually steering the conversation to current day politics. Some are talking about how some people have to foot the whole bill, how so many people are slackers not working for X, Y and Z, be it gear, credits, or whatnot, and then at the first opportunity, sliding into actual current US politics. This is meerly a debating tactic of sorts, and truely, it does not belong in this setting, but I see little that can be done about it. When confronted with incorrect information, there are several people that usually stand up to these individuals and shoot them down, but over all, this sort of nonsense is just certain discontent peoples way of stabbing at the poor, the president, the fact their real life job is suffering due to the current financial crisis, etc.
Controling in game chat, well,in most cases, the players are doing a good enough job of that on their own. The forums are another matter. But as long as mediators are neutral and unbiased, I see no problem with simply letting people make a few posts and then simply telling them this is not the place to take their angst out on others, shutting the thread down. They were allowed to speak their mind, so it's not censorship, it moderation, enough is enough.
P.S. Though my post is directed to the moderator, and was not meant to be inflamatory towards any player, I realized afterward that it did not exactly adhere to what was said about the rules. I apologize for that, but I felt that it should be stated. There actually is a problem here, in my opinion, and it does reflect on both forum posts and in game chat. I hope what I have said will inspire you to perhaps spend a few hours over a few days in the game and listen to what's said between the gorn jokes just so you have a feel for what I am speaking of, in general at least. Also, this was the first place I saw a moderator speak on something related, so if you feel it is not the proper place for the post, I apologize again.
Point being if even with safguards in place the system can be abused, then imagine the level of abuse with nothing in place, as per my initial point.
But the "level of abuse" is exactly the same, because your "safeguards" don't actually make anything safer.
The bottom line is: Fleets can decide who has access and who doesn't, or else they lose all meaning as a player driven entity.
As long as fleets exist, they'll have the ability to sell access, and as long as certain, premium gear is available only to fleets who have earned it, they'll have something valuable to sell.
The only flaw with this exists in the minds of those who simply can't abide knowing that they can't have something for nothing.
Point being if even with safguards in place the system can be abused, then imagine the level of abuse with nothing in place, as per my initial point.
Give me data on how your proposal would improve player behavior or data on how your proposal would limit the potential for abuse. Right now, your proposal does nothing to ensure player behavior or limits the potential for abuse. You want me to imagine how much worse the abuse can get without your safeguards? Well, I can't. So give me some help in that department.
Ignorance is an obstacle not an excuse
Let the stupid suffer
Give me data on how your proposal would improve player behavior or data on how your proposal would limit the potential for abuse. Right now, your proposal does nothing to ensure player behavior or limits the potential for abuse. You want me to imagine how much worse the abuse can get without your safeguards? Well, I can't. So give me some help in that department.
What abuse? What player problems? You still haven't explained why this is an issue at all apart from saying you just don't like it.
I put this to you, there is nothing wrong with what is going on, and it is up to fleets how they run their business, and neither Cryptic nor anyone else has any place telling them how to go about it.
Those of us around since before season 6 hit, when fleet Sbs hit tribble, we saw the level it was going to need. We saw just how bad it would be.
There were predictions then, or early on on how the mega-fleets from the get-go were going to clearly be the ones who would get ahead. It was said that people would start selling fleet access, that they would do exactly this.
To me, it's simply the predictions coming true, for good or for ill.
It is good at least, because even selling access to buy other stuff, allows those not in a big fleet, to have usage of things that they might not ever get without it. The exception being ships, which you have to join a fleet to do.
I invite people to my own fleet's SB once in awhile, to let them buy anything but a ship. It doesn't use our provisions, so it does no harm to us. I don't charge for it, because I just see it more as a thing to be nice about atm, not as a money-maker.
Hmmm interesting. Never tried this, but if I understand, it seems its more important to get the word out to everyone NOT to pay these pataks (sp?) for access. If anyone can come on my Level 5 base and buy elite gear that doesnt go against the fleet resources.... then really anyone charging is scamming
I really don't see the problem with 'selling access'. After all, why should a new guy come and gain all the benefits of a T5 base when he did nothing to get it there?
Now... if the leader is hording the access from his own fleet so he CAN sell it to new people, that I'd have a problem with. But if the fleet members have what they want, why not sell the extras?
Comments
I'm no fan of Starfleet Dental but you are more or less right on the money so to say with this. I think the price being charged for elite pets are very high but then again TFS are the only Fed base there, they've sunk in a lot of resources etc etc.
Ultimately it's down to you the player. You want those elite pets now? Pay up what they're asking. You don't want to pay that? Just wait a few months till more fleets get to T5 sci and I dare say you could get them for free (well only the cost from the store) depending on how little of a jack*** you are.
Unlike some things in STO these are not limited time and it is not being denied to you on a permanent basis so a little patience and you will get it.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
And how do you suppose they regulate it? More to the point, why do you feel that after spending over half a BILLION EC the fleet shouldn't be allowed to charge for the privilege of letting someone bypass the grind of reaching T5 themselves?
Let the stupid suffer
^^I dont think STO or Cryptic give anybody the entitlment or right to open and run a third party marketplace within STO, that's why the exchange exists, what has happened here was obviously not thought of when they brought the fleets into being, and i doubt they will allow them to continue much longer now the practice has been highlighted.
How will they regulate it, quite simply take away the ability to instantly access T5 stuff the min you join a T5 fleet, then put a min limit of of how much somebody has to contibute to said fleet before they can access T5 stuff, that way the fleet still gains all round and the people wanting T5 stuff gain what they want, and all above board with no comebacks.
Everybody wins.
That restriction is already in place: you need fleet credits to buy stuff from the fleet store. Now, fleet credits stay with you across fleets, maybe you are talking about having them get wiped when you change fleets. IIRC that was the original implementation but was scrapped by people getting kicked out of fleets and suddenly having to start all over from nothing. Also kind of dicks over alts if the minimum to buy is higher than what it takes to earn the fleet credits.
Also, it still wouldn't stop fleets from charging for invites.
Let the stupid suffer
A pity that themepark games, such as this, can't handle it.
To help you understand the very simple topic of discussion in this thread, I can assure you that the fleet(s) in question are not running a 'third party marketplace within STO' as they are not selling anything. They are simply granting temporary fleet membership to players who have otherwise contributed zero to the fleet's growth. By accepting temporary membership and contributing the negotiated amount of EC, you are granted access to purchase the in-game items available to fleet members of the appropriate rank. It is all above board, although you may be permitted to come back at a future time after your temporary membership has expired.
If you think the fee charged by the fleet for granting temporary membership to you is too high, then perhaps you should refrain from whining about it on the forums and instead spend your time leveling up your own fleet where you can decide how best to manage your own fleet's membership.
I know that there are certain fleets who are selling Fleet ships. I once asked for the price of a Fleet Aquarius, just for the fun of knowing. I grew sick when I heard the 23 mil price for a ship which is weaker in all aspects than the Fleet Saber. At that time I was a rank below the Fleet Leader (now I am a Leader), but I decided to never ever go around selling Fleet ships. I would rather work for months on our Shipyard than buy a fleet ship.
Unfortunately, there are other fleets who don't think this way. And unfortunately, the only thing that can be done against it is refusing their offers. Cryptic/PWE stated that they won't interfere in Fleet management, and personally I think that that is a wise decision.
What could be done is warning every player of the risks and dangers involved, while offering them free access to any fleet you might be in.
For those of you who don't know this already, there is a way to access higher tier starbases while staying in the fleet you are already in and without paying money: the "Public Service" channel. I didn't start this channel, but it allows players to get invites for Tuffli freighters, D'kora Marauders, Embassy's and Fleet Starbases. For free.
The moment Starbase invites went live for this channel, I gave all of my fleet ranks the permission to invite non-members to fleet-owned maps. For fleet leaders who are considering this as well, don't worry: non-members don't take away your provisions, only the provisions of their own fleet.
For people searching for another fleets starbase: you get access to all of their unlocks, except for the Fleet Shipyard. You can only buy fleet ships your fleet has access to.
Join the Deltas today!
We came to an arrangement-
I got a Fleet Corsair
They got 1000 Fleet Marks
We were both happy, seeing as this action affected nobodies gaming experiencing. Whose business is it?
Great! Now all you need to do is get a a time machine and go back to a time when people would be excited by a T3 starbase. You won't make any money by offering fleet invites because your fleet has nothing worth offering. 1st Aquarius Division has a T5 shipyard, Task Force Spectre has T5 science. They have a near monopoly on this and can charge prices to reflect that. If you know another fleet with T5 science who will allow people onto their base for free to acquire elite pets, then by all means share it with us.
Or is this the reason why you don't like the idea that people sell access to their fleet's resources? You can't do it yourself because your fleet doesn't have a service worth selling so you don't want anyone else to.
Now back onto topic, as i said, make a limited time and contributions limit for new players joining fleets, solves any issue and stops all this off the radar EC transactions, charging for store access today, charging a subscription to remain in the fleet tommorrow, greed and avarice can get out of hand if not controlled to a certain degree.
Just my opinion.
By your logic, any transaction that is not carried out through the exchange is unregulated and should be stopped. So by that same logic any private transaction for goods or services shouldn't be allowed.
Please explain how private transactions are a problem in the game.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
You're right, that's your opinion......
I believe Devs should stay out of how fleets are handled. If a fleet wants to sell it's resources, why should they be allowed. It's their fleet, they are the ones who invested time and resources. You're making an argument and using an unknown variable as a fact to support yourself.
It's like saying "I might get hit by a car, best not to leave the house today."
If a fleet starts charging it's members "rent" to remain the fleet. I'd suggest those members reevaluate their loyalty to said fleet.
You want Cryptic to gate people because you don't like it... As I stated earlier I purchased a ship from another fleet. I paid them the agreed upon amount and we were both happy. I don't see how this is abuse... its a free market..
Please explain how private transactions are a problem in the game.[/QUOTE]
I am merely stating the pletroa of issues that could, by allowing fleets, or anybody in this game to operate in such a manner, so i suspect they will at some point refine it so that you cannot simply join and access T5 stuff, that simply stops the issue in its tracks stone dead.
Sorted.
But If they dont then life will carry on.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
There's nothing in your suggestion that would prevent fleet leaders from extorting money from the fleet anyway. You get invited, you contribute to grind out the 20k credits to buy the ship and the day before the system grants you access the fleet leader says "pay me 20million or get kicked". Your solution solves NOTHING.
Let the stupid suffer
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That's what happens in a free market; and I would prefer that kind of thing happening to Cryptic getting involved and instituting their own way of making money off such transactions. But what you fail to realize is this: for every fleet that will charge fees, there will be others that don't. That will never evolve to create a problem, especially the one you think is going to happen.
But the gist of this argument is very simple: some people think they should not have to contribute anything to a fleet that has spent a lot of time and resources in getting to tier 5 to enjoy the services available from those fleets. To me that is being selfish and having a huge sense of entitlement to something you had nothing in making. You don't like that these guys are charging a fee to use their services; then by all means, find somewhere else (if you can) or build a tier 5 base yourself.
My fleet is on it's way to tier 5 and to be honest; I'd be very displeased if we started to sell access to our base. But in the same vein, I would also be very angry if just anyone could walk into our base and buy stuff there without having contributing anything to our fleet. I know the other officers and leaders feel the same, so I'm not worried about that eventuality.
I see fleets charging a fee to access a base a simple way of telling you: "Since you don't want to join us and contribute (or weren't here to contribute), pay this small indemnity to use our services." If some do it out of greed; then that too is their right... when you calculate the enormous effort and resources that went into making a tier 5 starbase; that measely 10 million EC is nothing in comparison.
Bingo!!!
So if safeguards inplace cant stop these kind of things happening, just imagine the issues waiting to appear without any safeguards in place as we have now.
Be careful what you ask for; hardcoded 'safeguards' have a nasty way of coming back to bite you in the behind.
The mindset of my fleet is this, we'll invite anyone onto the base to purchase from our stores for free. This cost us zero resources, so its really a matter of if someone can invite. To purchase a ship requires joining and being allowed access. It will also being using our own fleet resources, at that point a bargain for the item will be struck.
My fleet will never charge its members "rent" of any kind to remain in the fleet. Every Fleet needs to decide how it will function in the changing economy. I'd prefer if Cryptic/PWE stayed out of fleet business as they've always been.
The stupid hurts. As it is now: you pay and the fleet doesnt give you access. Your solution: you pay and the fleet doesn't give you access.
How on God's green earth is your proposal better than nothing?
Let the stupid suffer
Point being if even with safguards in place the system can be abused, then imagine the level of abuse with nothing in place, as per my initial point.
Then tell us exactly what 'safeguards' you would put in place, given that there isn't actually any real issue apart from people complaining that they cannot freeload off of others.
My own observations:
A:
Part of these problems is that yes, most of the time what is seen in the in game chat, is not people asking for money in order to join a fleet, but rather to come on board and make purchases. for those who don't wish the drama and hastle clans, fleets, guilds sometimes cause, since they have likely been burned by this before, it is a viable alternative. i think the person making the original complaint has either misunderstood the advertizing in the first place, or has started this thread because he disagrees with people selling fleet gear to those not in fleets (and thus not deserving it in his opinion) and sees trying to flag a problem with cryptic/PW where there is none as a solution.
B.
There are either several individuals, or perhaps just a few operating under different accounts, or characters/factions, that have been recently starting 'discussions' thinly vieled as topics in regards to people demanding their 'right' to force someone to let them join a fleet, or what not, as an example, but are actually steering the conversation to current day politics. Some are talking about how some people have to foot the whole bill, how so many people are slackers not working for X, Y and Z, be it gear, credits, or whatnot, and then at the first opportunity, sliding into actual current US politics. This is meerly a debating tactic of sorts, and truely, it does not belong in this setting, but I see little that can be done about it. When confronted with incorrect information, there are several people that usually stand up to these individuals and shoot them down, but over all, this sort of nonsense is just certain discontent peoples way of stabbing at the poor, the president, the fact their real life job is suffering due to the current financial crisis, etc.
Controling in game chat, well,in most cases, the players are doing a good enough job of that on their own. The forums are another matter. But as long as mediators are neutral and unbiased, I see no problem with simply letting people make a few posts and then simply telling them this is not the place to take their angst out on others, shutting the thread down. They were allowed to speak their mind, so it's not censorship, it moderation, enough is enough.
P.S. Though my post is directed to the moderator, and was not meant to be inflamatory towards any player, I realized afterward that it did not exactly adhere to what was said about the rules. I apologize for that, but I felt that it should be stated. There actually is a problem here, in my opinion, and it does reflect on both forum posts and in game chat. I hope what I have said will inspire you to perhaps spend a few hours over a few days in the game and listen to what's said between the gorn jokes just so you have a feel for what I am speaking of, in general at least. Also, this was the first place I saw a moderator speak on something related, so if you feel it is not the proper place for the post, I apologize again.
But the "level of abuse" is exactly the same, because your "safeguards" don't actually make anything safer.
The bottom line is: Fleets can decide who has access and who doesn't, or else they lose all meaning as a player driven entity.
As long as fleets exist, they'll have the ability to sell access, and as long as certain, premium gear is available only to fleets who have earned it, they'll have something valuable to sell.
The only flaw with this exists in the minds of those who simply can't abide knowing that they can't have something for nothing.
Give me data on how your proposal would improve player behavior or data on how your proposal would limit the potential for abuse. Right now, your proposal does nothing to ensure player behavior or limits the potential for abuse. You want me to imagine how much worse the abuse can get without your safeguards? Well, I can't. So give me some help in that department.
Let the stupid suffer
What abuse? What player problems? You still haven't explained why this is an issue at all apart from saying you just don't like it.
I put this to you, there is nothing wrong with what is going on, and it is up to fleets how they run their business, and neither Cryptic nor anyone else has any place telling them how to go about it.
Free market you know.
Hmmm interesting. Never tried this, but if I understand, it seems its more important to get the word out to everyone NOT to pay these pataks (sp?) for access. If anyone can come on my Level 5 base and buy elite gear that doesnt go against the fleet resources.... then really anyone charging is scamming
Now... if the leader is hording the access from his own fleet so he CAN sell it to new people, that I'd have a problem with. But if the fleet members have what they want, why not sell the extras?