Okay I did not bother to read to far in, the negativity was overwhelming, this is a first for me skipping over and all.
First let me say this, a fleet is well within their rights to charge people to come in and quickly use their shipyard and vendors. They are providing you with a service. Yes the items you buy do not actually exist but if that is your argument for why fleets shouldn't charge you shouldn't be playing the game to begin with, don't you think? You don't go to the grocery store and freak out at them do you? Well don't do it here.
Keep in mind most fleets I know are not charging to join their group as a real member, just for temporary access. If you join them as a real member expect to work your way up like everyone else, especially with T5 fleets, they have to make sure you are not going to just bail as soon as you get what you want.
Next always, ALWAYS, do your research before having anything to do with a fleet, whether you are joining them or simply paying for quick access to their stuff. Talk to some of their members, not their leaders mind you, but a variety of lower to mid ranked members. Get a feel for them from their members.
Check online as well, does the fleet have a website? Any decent fleet will. Any good fleet will state in the section visible to none members what their terms are for quick access. If you are talking to a fleet and they don't have a site, well I am not saying steer clear, but be cautious.
Also remember to ask around on the forums here about the fleet. This part can be a can of worms though so be careful and learn to differentiate between the trolls, the former members and rival fleets trying to slam them and the real feed back on the fleet you are researching.
Finally ask directly what the money is used for, remember you have no way of really telling if they are telling the truth or not, but if you did your research before asking you should have a feeling as to whether or not they are lieing or not.
Trust me on all this, I have had years of getting burned by fleets/guilds and all this was hard learned. I am not in a fleet atm because of this but if I ever decide to try and find another you better believe I will be very picky about who I join.
Omg it boggles my mind with threads that demand other players play the way they want....seriously the game and also real life would be better for most players would worry about their stuff and not other people.
If a player wants to spend millions to get access to all the cool stuff locked behind the starbases, then it is their choice. People that do that only spend about 30 minutes or so to get the stuff, then they leave the fleet. To get that stuff for "free", then fleets don't generally charge Energy Credits for joining their fleet. They put in limits like you have to contribute 200,000 Fleet Credits to the Fleet and maybe some other restrictions like playing an activity with the fleet
Ever since the first Starbase hit Tier 5, an obvious problem has cropped up turning STO into a pathetic scam involving Fleet Owners trying to turn their Starbases into a revenue generating scam where they are now charging players to join their fleets.
When the Starbase system was designed, I didn't think that this would turn into an issue where Fleet Owners would try to make EC from new players who want to join their fleet. While I'm sure that Fleet Owners think they're entitled to do this, it has turned into a major problem of conflict.
Fleets and Starbases should not be used to generate EC wealth for the Fleet Owners. Everyday, in ESD Zone Chat, not a single day can go by without some Fleet Owner offering to sell access to their Tier 5 Starbase in exchange for 10 Million EC. To make matters worse, this scam has degenerated to the Tier 4 Starbases with the Fleet Owners pulling the same scam. I imagine that this is about to escalate to Tier 3 Starbases, as well.
Joining a Starbase should not have special conditions where you are forced to give the fleet owner an exorbitant amount of EC to either join their fleet or to gain access to their Fleet Vendors. In the past few months, I have quit over a dozen fleets because they are making too many conditions on new members and I think that Cryptic and PWE needs to eliminate this scam.
Fleet Owners are justifying this with the excuse "we spent a lot of dilithium to get to Tier 5 so we can charge for access". Since fleet starbases are built by the entire fleet, this "entitlement" where Fleet Owners are trying to generate in-game currency from its members and from new members is an insult.
Please, Cryptic and PWE, end this practice and stop Fleet owners from doing this because STO is rapidly becoming a joke among the in-game players.
BTW, I imagine that the hate comments from the Fleet Owners will try to derail this topic but if you find this move by Fleet Owners to sell access to their Starbases are "offensive" and as a "scam", post in here and tell Cryptic what you think about this move by Fleet Owners who think they are entitled to do this.
Let the Buyer beware..... no one is forcing them to pay and it's their choice to part with their EC.
If you want to buy something like elite fleet weapons, pets or anything else from the vendors which would use your own fleets provisions then tbh no point charging as you don't lose anything inviting someone to the map. Though a small fee or gratuity would most likely be in order.
If you want to buy a ship however, you have to join the fleet with access to that rank of ship which will use their provisions. In that case you should contribute something to what it is costing. Correct me if I'm wrong but 1 ship provision costs about 20k dilithium so charging something like 30k dilithium is not exactly unfair. In fact considering it would also give you access to everything else I think a substantial charge isn't a bad idea.
Then there's always the option of joining said fleet and contributing what their minimum requirements are to get promoted, for most fleets that's earning 200k fleet credits on the leader board.
Some of these leaders are robbing ******** but then some have had to sink in huge amounts of EC and dilithium for months to get where they are. They have been broke, not been able to grab a lot of the shiney new ships, consoles and all manner of things that they would have liked and instead chose to feed the starbase monster for their fleets sake.
But ultimately I think it depends on the person being invited. If I had a full T5 starbase I would not have any issue inviting other fleet leaders to use the vendors for free as they have put in the effort at their own starbases. Inviting someone who's not in a fleet and may never have been? Well I'll charge you a lot as you're using my provisions, you're most likely not contributing to any fleet and just want all the best toys for none of the effort.
seriously people, lighten up.
Of course this was going to happen, and I personally have no problems with it.
The fleets offering access for a modest fee, are fleets with mostly very few members. 10 or under at the most.
Everyone is welcome to level their own base to T5 if they don't like it.
Approximately three to four days ago, I paid someone 2.0 million ec for T3 fleet store access. Since I know fleets spend hours grinding for resources, I had no problem with making the trade. I tried to also get access to a T5 shipyard, but the price of admission was a little too high. Its not a big deal. Sometimes you have to save up your resources, so you can get something you want. Not a big deal.
Do not forget to negotiate for a lower price. Some fleet owners will allow you to mix and match currencies, so that you can cover your resource expenses.
After you are done with negotiating, regardless about if a deal is made or not, thank the fleet owner for their time and patience. Once you build up enough resource, you can always go back to make another offer.
It's their fleet, they can do what they like....but as always buyer beware
^^^This. If you want to pay the 10 million for access to fleet gear/ships so be it. I've seen enough scumbags in game and read enough posts on this forum to know don't go crying in your cheerios if you pay you're money and get booted from the fleet before you can even get what you wanted. STO, like pretty much any MMO, is littered with frauds and schiesters. PWE/Cryptic has shown time and again they won't do anything about it(as evidencenced when entire fleets are ripped off) and there is no recourse to warn in forum threads of people that do this. So, OP, as was said, "buyer beware". You're best bet is to create you're fleet or join one not charging for the "privilege" to partake in their wealth. I have my own little fleet for my 6 alts that I just occasionally donate to when I have the required stuff. I don't have the bells and whistles or all the fancy gear, but it's mine
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."-Commander William Adama
Well, let's consider what it actually costs an advanced fleet to offer an invite to somebody who wants to buy from their store. Here are the total expenditures:
0 EC
0 doffs
0 dilithium
0 marks
10-30 seconds
When you buy from a fleet store, the provisions that are reduced are those of the fleet you are in, not the fleet who owns the store. Whoever is buying the stuff in question is the one spending the resources to make those provisions. So basically, charging for an invite to your starbase is asking people to pay for the privilege of paying for something out of their own pocket.
There's nothing dishonest here, just incredibly and unjustifiably greedy. Act accordingly.
Well, let's consider what it actually costs an advanced fleet to offer an invite to somebody who wants to buy from their store. Here are the total expenditures:
0 EC
0 doffs
0 dilithium
0 marks
10-30 seconds
When you buy from a fleet store, the provisions that are reduced are those of the fleet you are in, not the fleet who owns the store. Whoever is buying the stuff in question is the one spending the resources to make those provisions. So basically, charging for an invite to your starbase is asking people to pay for the privilege of paying for something out of their own pocket.
There's nothing dishonest here, just incredibly and unjustifiably greedy. Act accordingly.
And all it costs an artist to make a painting is $20 worth of oil paint, a $5 brush, and a $25 canvas. So no painting should cost more than $50.
Nevermind the six figure student loan debt or the afternoons spent thinking and observing the world instead of earning a paycheck.
I have not read every page but I can't help to think: no one should be offering to buy their way into a top tier fleet and top tier fleets should not be taking the offer. Or top tier fleets should not be selling their accessability and players should not be paying the fleet prices. This is a moral argument (if I understand the meaning correctly)
IOW: Cryptic does not have a dog in the fight - this is a situation that was created by the players and is governed by the players.
I have not read every page but I can't help to think: no one should be offering to buy their way into a top tier fleet and top tier fleets should not be taking the offer. Or top tier fleets should not be selling their accessability and players should not be paying the fleet prices. This is a moral argument (if I understand the meaning correctly)
When you buy from a fleet store, the provisions that are reduced are those of the fleet you are in, not the fleet who owns the store.
What? Is there some way of sneaking into a different fleets store? Because from everything I understand, the fleet you are in is the one who owns the only fleet store you have access too.
the buyer's fleet is the one that makes the provisions.
No, the sellers fleet is the one that makes the provisions. And it costs the sellers fleet about 2 million ec's per provision with a tier-5 shipyard. It's more expensive at lower levels.
There is no material consumed for you; the buyer's fleet is the one that makes the provisions.
There is no depreciation; other people buying things from your store does not degrade the value or performance of your store.
There is no exclusivity; inviting somebody does not prevent you, or the rest of the store owning fleet, from using the store.
Inviting somebody to your starbase has a cost of literally zero except for the couple of seconds it takes to get over there and invite them.
If all it took was a couple of seconds; then why the hell are they over on our fleet base instead of theirs? I always found getting a fleet to tier 5 to be a walk in the park myself; nothing to it...
I see a lot of alarmism and hand-wringing in this thread over what amounts to a business transaction. The people who have a problem with this need to grow up. Nobody is being robbed. People willingly pay for merchandise that a fleet is selling. Get over it.
i let anyone into my fleet.. but in order to buy from the store you have to have donated at least 100k worth of fleet credits..
my fleet is past t4.. we should be t5 mil by the end of the summer..
its very reasonable to enforce such a restriction because each ship sold costs the fleet several hundred fleet marks, a few dozen doffs, and a ton of dil..
not to mention all the projects it took to get to t4..
other then that the fleet store is unrestricted.. we have 1000s of ships, and 100s of weapons and equipment.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
i let anyone into my fleet.. but in order to buy from the store you have to have donated at least 100k worth of fleet credits..
my fleet is past t4.. we should be t5 mil by the end of the summer..
its very reasonable to enforce such a restriction because each ship sold costs the fleet several hundred fleet marks, a few dozen doffs, and a ton of dil..
not to mention all the projects it took to get to t4..
other then that the fleet store is unrestricted.. we have 1000s of ships, and 100s of weapons and equipment.
Well, there are two ways to let people buy things from your fleet.
1. You can invite them to join your fleet. In that case, they can contribute, but yes, they take provisions.
2. You can invite them to your fleet map. They can't contribute to your fleet and they use their own fleet's provisions, but have access at your stores unlock level.
Well, there are two ways to let people buy things from your fleet.
1. You can invite them to join your fleet. In that case, they can contribute, but yes, they take provisions.
2. You can invite them to your fleet map. They can't contribute to your fleet and they use their own fleet's provisions, but have access at your stores unlock level.
you can do that?
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I can't be the only one who noticed that for the last four pages, everyone who thinks selling SB access is morally evil have abandoned their soapboxes and slunk away in shame. I think the thread can be closed now.
yeah i wouldnt charge to let people use their own resources on my shipyard..
anyone wants a t4 kdf ship pm me for an invite to my sb..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Yes. As far as I know, this is how fleets like Task Force Spectre sell access. You aren't buying into their fleet: you're buying a one-time invite to the fleet map to buy whatever you want with whatever provisions you already have.
Ever since the first Starbase hit Tier 5, an obvious problem has cropped up turning STO into a pathetic scam involving Fleet Owners trying to turn their Starbases into a revenue generating scam where they are now charging players to join their fleets.
When the Starbase system was designed, I didn't think that this would turn into an issue where Fleet Owners would try to make EC from new players who want to join their fleet. While I'm sure that Fleet Owners think they're entitled to do this, it has turned into a major problem of conflict.
Fleets and Starbases should not be used to generate EC wealth for the Fleet Owners. Everyday, in ESD Zone Chat, not a single day can go by without some Fleet Owner offering to sell access to their Tier 5 Starbase in exchange for 10 Million EC. To make matters worse, this scam has degenerated to the Tier 4 Starbases with the Fleet Owners pulling the same scam. I imagine that this is about to escalate to Tier 3 Starbases, as well.
Joining a Starbase should not have special conditions where you are forced to give the fleet owner an exorbitant amount of EC to either join their fleet or to gain access to their Fleet Vendors. In the past few months, I have quit over a dozen fleets because they are making too many conditions on new members and I think that Cryptic and PWE needs to eliminate this scam.
Fleet Owners are justifying this with the excuse "we spent a lot of dilithium to get to Tier 5 so we can charge for access". Since fleet starbases are built by the entire fleet, this "entitlement" where Fleet Owners are trying to generate in-game currency from its members and from new members is an insult.
Please, Cryptic and PWE, end this practice and stop Fleet owners from doing this because STO is rapidly becoming a joke among the in-game players.
BTW, I imagine that the hate comments from the Fleet Owners will try to derail this topic but if you find this move by Fleet Owners to sell access to their Starbases are "offensive" and as a "scam", post in here and tell Cryptic what you think about this move by Fleet Owners who think they are entitled to do this.
Dude, that **** isn't for people to 'join the fleet'.
That **** is for people who are in other fleets who don't have access to that **** to 'be invited to the starbase to buy it'.
As a leader of a fleet myself I'm going to have to agree, if I sold access to fleet because our members worked for it, then used the money myself the only ones getting scammed is my fleet, if it was used to help my fleet (put in fleet bank) then its not a scam. We worked hard for that stuff and all those provisions for you to come in and buy a ship, then outfit yourself with fleet weapons with provisions that we gathered. fair trade.:cool:
And same thing could be said about just being a visitor, even if you use your own provisioning it is still access to stuff you normally can't get so a trade is in order...Unless you get in touch with somebody very nice and in a giving mood...Happy Birthday.
Now I can see how if you don't have that kind of credit and have a very hard time getting it I see how that is frustrating...such is life...I know, been there done that. Just look at all the times I complained about exorbitantly high exchange costs.:mad:
There is no material consumed for you; the buyer's fleet is the one that makes the provisions.
There is no depreciation; other people buying things from your store does not degrade the value or performance of your store.
There is no exclusivity; inviting somebody does not prevent you, or the rest of the store owning fleet, from using the store.
Inviting somebody to your starbase has a cost of literally zero except for the couple of seconds it takes to get over there and invite them.
Nice people in an MMO tip loose acquaintances and strangers for virtually anything, even if it doesn't cost anything. Not tipping is being a jerk and is disrespectful to the work that went into building the base. It's rude.
I've never charged anyone to invite them to our starbase and I wouldn't invite people without the FL's permission. And I wouldn't set foot on somebody else's starbase without paying them something for it. It's common MMO courtesy to pay people for any kind of access or perk they give you, regardless of what it costs them to provide. It's none of your business what it cost them to provide.
I think it'd be perfectly fair for a fleet that spent thousands of dilithium and millions of EC to try to recoupe their investment by charging admission.
Asking $1.5 million for a trip to a starbase where you can do things isn't unreasonable.
In previous threads, I've made the point that the cost to built a starbase is sunk. Inviting people to your fleet map costs you nothing but marginal time. Any charge that you demand is simply an attempt to make money; it has no actual relationship to any costs, real or imagined.
Which, you know, fine, if that's your bag. But calling it anything other than what it is- greed- is simply dishonest.
Comments
Then don't. No one is forcing anyone to purchase access to fleet starbases.
First let me say this, a fleet is well within their rights to charge people to come in and quickly use their shipyard and vendors. They are providing you with a service. Yes the items you buy do not actually exist but if that is your argument for why fleets shouldn't charge you shouldn't be playing the game to begin with, don't you think? You don't go to the grocery store and freak out at them do you? Well don't do it here.
Keep in mind most fleets I know are not charging to join their group as a real member, just for temporary access. If you join them as a real member expect to work your way up like everyone else, especially with T5 fleets, they have to make sure you are not going to just bail as soon as you get what you want.
Next always, ALWAYS, do your research before having anything to do with a fleet, whether you are joining them or simply paying for quick access to their stuff. Talk to some of their members, not their leaders mind you, but a variety of lower to mid ranked members. Get a feel for them from their members.
Check online as well, does the fleet have a website? Any decent fleet will. Any good fleet will state in the section visible to none members what their terms are for quick access. If you are talking to a fleet and they don't have a site, well I am not saying steer clear, but be cautious.
Also remember to ask around on the forums here about the fleet. This part can be a can of worms though so be careful and learn to differentiate between the trolls, the former members and rival fleets trying to slam them and the real feed back on the fleet you are researching.
Finally ask directly what the money is used for, remember you have no way of really telling if they are telling the truth or not, but if you did your research before asking you should have a feeling as to whether or not they are lieing or not.
Trust me on all this, I have had years of getting burned by fleets/guilds and all this was hard learned. I am not in a fleet atm because of this but if I ever decide to try and find another you better believe I will be very picky about who I join.
Let the Buyer beware..... no one is forcing them to pay and it's their choice to part with their EC.
Some times the best thing to do is to go without
If you want to buy something like elite fleet weapons, pets or anything else from the vendors which would use your own fleets provisions then tbh no point charging as you don't lose anything inviting someone to the map. Though a small fee or gratuity would most likely be in order.
If you want to buy a ship however, you have to join the fleet with access to that rank of ship which will use their provisions. In that case you should contribute something to what it is costing. Correct me if I'm wrong but 1 ship provision costs about 20k dilithium so charging something like 30k dilithium is not exactly unfair. In fact considering it would also give you access to everything else I think a substantial charge isn't a bad idea.
Then there's always the option of joining said fleet and contributing what their minimum requirements are to get promoted, for most fleets that's earning 200k fleet credits on the leader board.
Some of these leaders are robbing ******** but then some have had to sink in huge amounts of EC and dilithium for months to get where they are. They have been broke, not been able to grab a lot of the shiney new ships, consoles and all manner of things that they would have liked and instead chose to feed the starbase monster for their fleets sake.
But ultimately I think it depends on the person being invited. If I had a full T5 starbase I would not have any issue inviting other fleet leaders to use the vendors for free as they have put in the effort at their own starbases. Inviting someone who's not in a fleet and may never have been? Well I'll charge you a lot as you're using my provisions, you're most likely not contributing to any fleet and just want all the best toys for none of the effort.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Of course this was going to happen, and I personally have no problems with it.
The fleets offering access for a modest fee, are fleets with mostly very few members. 10 or under at the most.
Everyone is welcome to level their own base to T5 if they don't like it.
Do not forget to negotiate for a lower price. Some fleet owners will allow you to mix and match currencies, so that you can cover your resource expenses.
After you are done with negotiating, regardless about if a deal is made or not, thank the fleet owner for their time and patience. Once you build up enough resource, you can always go back to make another offer.
Do not burn your bridges.
^^^This. If you want to pay the 10 million for access to fleet gear/ships so be it. I've seen enough scumbags in game and read enough posts on this forum to know don't go crying in your cheerios if you pay you're money and get booted from the fleet before you can even get what you wanted. STO, like pretty much any MMO, is littered with frauds and schiesters. PWE/Cryptic has shown time and again they won't do anything about it(as evidencenced when entire fleets are ripped off) and there is no recourse to warn in forum threads of people that do this. So, OP, as was said, "buyer beware". You're best bet is to create you're fleet or join one not charging for the "privilege" to partake in their wealth. I have my own little fleet for my 6 alts that I just occasionally donate to when I have the required stuff. I don't have the bells and whistles or all the fancy gear, but it's mine
0 EC
0 doffs
0 dilithium
0 marks
10-30 seconds
When you buy from a fleet store, the provisions that are reduced are those of the fleet you are in, not the fleet who owns the store. Whoever is buying the stuff in question is the one spending the resources to make those provisions. So basically, charging for an invite to your starbase is asking people to pay for the privilege of paying for something out of their own pocket.
There's nothing dishonest here, just incredibly and unjustifiably greedy. Act accordingly.
And all it costs an artist to make a painting is $20 worth of oil paint, a $5 brush, and a $25 canvas. So no painting should cost more than $50.
Nevermind the six figure student loan debt or the afternoons spent thinking and observing the world instead of earning a paycheck.
IOW: Cryptic does not have a dog in the fight - this is a situation that was created by the players and is governed by the players.
Why? Explain your reasoning.
If you're going to do analogies, do them right.
There is no material consumed for you; the buyer's fleet is the one that makes the provisions.
There is no depreciation; other people buying things from your store does not degrade the value or performance of your store.
There is no exclusivity; inviting somebody does not prevent you, or the rest of the store owning fleet, from using the store.
Inviting somebody to your starbase has a cost of literally zero except for the couple of seconds it takes to get over there and invite them.
What? Is there some way of sneaking into a different fleets store? Because from everything I understand, the fleet you are in is the one who owns the only fleet store you have access too.
No, the sellers fleet is the one that makes the provisions. And it costs the sellers fleet about 2 million ec's per provision with a tier-5 shipyard. It's more expensive at lower levels.
Are you sure you know how fleets work?
If all it took was a couple of seconds; then why the hell are they over on our fleet base instead of theirs? I always found getting a fleet to tier 5 to be a walk in the park myself; nothing to it...
my fleet is past t4.. we should be t5 mil by the end of the summer..
its very reasonable to enforce such a restriction because each ship sold costs the fleet several hundred fleet marks, a few dozen doffs, and a ton of dil..
not to mention all the projects it took to get to t4..
other then that the fleet store is unrestricted.. we have 1000s of ships, and 100s of weapons and equipment.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Well, there are two ways to let people buy things from your fleet.
1. You can invite them to join your fleet. In that case, they can contribute, but yes, they take provisions.
2. You can invite them to your fleet map. They can't contribute to your fleet and they use their own fleet's provisions, but have access at your stores unlock level.
you can do that?
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
anyone wants a t4 kdf ship pm me for an invite to my sb..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Yes. As far as I know, this is how fleets like Task Force Spectre sell access. You aren't buying into their fleet: you're buying a one-time invite to the fleet map to buy whatever you want with whatever provisions you already have.
Dude, that **** isn't for people to 'join the fleet'.
That **** is for people who are in other fleets who don't have access to that **** to 'be invited to the starbase to buy it'.
tl;dr, yer assuming things that aren't accurate.
And same thing could be said about just being a visitor, even if you use your own provisioning it is still access to stuff you normally can't get so a trade is in order...Unless you get in touch with somebody very nice and in a giving mood...Happy Birthday.
Now I can see how if you don't have that kind of credit and have a very hard time getting it I see how that is frustrating...such is life...I know, been there done that. Just look at all the times I complained about exorbitantly high exchange costs.:mad:
Nice people in an MMO tip loose acquaintances and strangers for virtually anything, even if it doesn't cost anything. Not tipping is being a jerk and is disrespectful to the work that went into building the base. It's rude.
I've never charged anyone to invite them to our starbase and I wouldn't invite people without the FL's permission. And I wouldn't set foot on somebody else's starbase without paying them something for it. It's common MMO courtesy to pay people for any kind of access or perk they give you, regardless of what it costs them to provide. It's none of your business what it cost them to provide.
I think it'd be perfectly fair for a fleet that spent thousands of dilithium and millions of EC to try to recoupe their investment by charging admission.
Asking $1.5 million for a trip to a starbase where you can do things isn't unreasonable.
Which, you know, fine, if that's your bag. But calling it anything other than what it is- greed- is simply dishonest.