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What is your beef with the Galaxy Cryptic?

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  • cthulhufhtagn666cthulhufhtagn666 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I like some of the suggestions I have read, but as someone who has been playing since the pre-order closed beta I can say with complete honesty and accuracy that it isn't the Galaxy, or any other ship that is broken or over-powered.

    The problem is with game mechanics straight up.
    All elitists (and in this use, I mean those who want to squeeze every tiny little bit out of their ship, regardless of cost) will agree that in this game DPS is far more important than anything. In PVP a properly fitted dps ship will destroy even the hardest tank without being hit (Jam Sensors, Scramble Sensors make it impossible for them to shoot back); while in PVP you don't need healing. One of my fleet mates, DnaAngel, runs massive dps setups on his ships, with crit ratings approaching 20%, with severity over 100%.

    When you have broken game mechanics that are strongly in need of reworking, many ships can seem broken while others seem overpowered.

    They need to rework accuracy/defence mechanic, as well as bridge officer powers. As they claim to be reworking traits so that "every single trait is a viable choice for any play style" I am hoping that this is the start of a rebalance of the entire game to make every power, every duty officer, every ship useful, with no clear choice of "what is best" over options.
  • sgtstarfallsgtstarfall Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ozy83 wrote: »
    The quote is in reference to the Galaxy, not the Galaxy X. The Galaxy X is much better in comparison to the Galaxy, and can still hold her own and punch above her own weight, but she still needs that fleet version with some corrections to remain competitive.

    Oops typo. I mean Galaxy in general.
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  • emacsheadroomemacsheadroom Member Posts: 994 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Let me stop you there for a second and say: With Aux2Bat, you don't need 2 copies of anything. As long as you have 1 Tac. Team, it'll be up every 15 seconds. Same with Beam Overload 2 or APB1.

    Aux2Bat is a dead-end strategy. The new Nukara reputation coming out in May has a tier 4 reward that boosts your weapon damage (or tanking ability if you choose that instead) based on your Aux power level.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    based on your Aux power level.

    That's not all that helpful for cruisers compared to say, the Vesta.
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  • hasukurobihasukurobi Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The problem is with game mechanics straight up.
    All elitists (and in this use, I mean those who want to squeeze every tiny little bit out of their ship, regardless of cost) will agree that in this game DPS is far more important than anything. In PVP a properly fitted dps ship will destroy even the hardest tank without being hit (Jam Sensors, Scramble Sensors make it impossible for them to shoot back); while in PVP you don't need healing. One of my fleet mates, DnaAngel, runs massive dps setups on his ships, with crit ratings approaching 20%, with severity over 100%.

    When you have broken game mechanics that are strongly in need of reworking, many ships can seem broken while others seem overpowered.

    They need to rework accuracy/defence mechanic, as well as bridge officer powers. As they claim to be reworking traits so that "every single trait is a viable choice for any play style" I am hoping that this is the start of a rebalance of the entire game to make every power, every duty officer, every ship useful, with no clear choice of "what is best" over options.


    I would actually disagree that DPS is the most important thing. Now do not get me wrong... It is VERY important... BUT... Being able to STOP your opponent from moving, not missing, and being able to get your damage to Hull instead of wasting it on shields is more important than just raw DPS numbers. This is why things like the Vesta can be quite an amazing ship.

    However, I do agree with the overall premise that there are some fundamental flaws with the way the combat works that basically over simplifies things until Cruisers become far less necessary than they should be.



    As for the Galaxy being able to hold Aggro... LOL... Well... Maybe... If your opponents are really weak in their DPS and your threat skill actually does its job but I have found most folks with full Threat Skill cannot keep Aggro Vs. my Vesta or Kumari in a Cruiser of any kind... That is sad but it goes back to the point cthulhufhtagn666 is making.
  • azazel420azazel420 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Find it a bit confusing that people ar saying the galaxy has an inordinate focus on eng vs. other cruisers, as near as I can tell it has the exact amount of engineering focus you would expect on a cruiser of that tier. It has exactly the engineering focus that an escort would have into tactical which appears absolutely normal. Can anyone explain why it should be any different then any other cruiser class in that regard?
  • captainwexlercaptainwexler Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    hasukurobi wrote: »
    I would actually disagree that DPS is the most important thing. Now do not get me wrong... It is VERY important... BUT... Being able to STOP your opponent from moving, not missing, and being able to get your damage to Hull instead of wasting it on shields is more important than just raw DPS numbers. This is why things like the Vesta can be quite an amazing ship.

    However, I do agree with the overall premise that there are some fundamental flaws with the way the combat works that basically over simplifies things until Cruisers become far less necessary than they should be.



    As for the Galaxy being able to hold Aggro... LOL... Well... Maybe... If your opponents are really weak in their DPS and your threat skill actually does its job but I have found most folks with full Threat Skill cannot keep Aggro Vs. my Vesta or Kumari in a Cruiser of any kind... That is sad but it goes back to the point cthulhufhtagn666 is making.

    I almos tnever lose agro on what im shooting in stf's, and I'm running a mega tank/low dps fleet galaxy with beam arrays/supporting torps, three lvls in threat control and an embassy console.

    Either every kumari pilot I have ever come across sucks, or tanking is viable.
  • neo1nxneo1nx Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek

    O anger! O despair! O age my enemy!
    Have I lived simply to know this infamy!
    Am I thus whitened by the toil of battles
    To witness in a day but withered laurels?
    My lance that with respect all federation admire,
    My lance, that often saved that very empire,
    So often affirmed the royalty of my king,
    Now to betray my quarrel, leave me wanting?
    O cruel memory to my past glory!
    The work of many days so transitory!
    New dignity now fatal in an hour!
    Steep abyss where falls all my honour!
    Must I see the polaronbeam debase my name,
    Die without vengeance now, or live in shame?

    grrrr, bluegeeeeeeEEEEEEeeeeeeeeek!!!:D:D:
    i was finally making a point!!:)
  • neo1nxneo1nx Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    azazel420 wrote: »
    Find it a bit confusing that people ar saying the galaxy has an inordinate focus on eng vs. other cruisers, as near as I can tell it has the exact amount of engineering focus you would expect on a cruiser of that tier. It has exactly the engineering focus that an escort would have into tactical which appears absolutely normal. Can anyone explain why it should be any different then any other cruiser class in that regard?

    the problem is that, this is all what this ship have, a big engie heavie console layout and bo layout.you can't do anything out of the ordinary with this.
    take the star cruiser for example, this ship too have a same engi bo layout, but he also got
    more spot in science wich make it better for tanking and healing, that combine with it better turn rate and inertia.

    same thing for the free sovy, same engi bo layout BUT a better tactical layout and turn rate again.so he can be as tanky but can ALSO deal better damage.

    this is the problem, this ship is too passive to be tactical oriented, and he is not better than a free ship like the star cruiser concerning tanking and healing, notice that you have to paid this ship.
    there is no area where he clearly better than any other cruiser in the same design role and that no matter what role you want to give him ( tactical, tanking and healing ).
    that wouldn't be a problem f it wasn't this iconic ship and that it was a free one.
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    neo1nx wrote: »
    O anger! O despair! O age my enemy!
    Have I lived simply to know this infamy!
    Am I thus whitened by the toil of battles
    To witness in a day but withered laurels?
    My lance that with respect all federation admire,
    My lance, that often saved that very empire,
    So often affirmed the royalty of my king,
    Now to betray my quarrel, leave me wanting?
    O cruel memory to my past glory!
    The work of many days so transitory!
    New dignity now fatal in an hour!
    Steep abyss where falls all my honour!
    Must I see the polaronbeam debase my name,
    Die without vengeance now, or live in shame?

    grrrr, bluegeeeeeeEEEEEEeeeeeeeeek!!!
    i was finally making a point!!:)

    Obviously we're not discussing moderation here, cause that would be against the rules.

    But you're always welcome to make a point that doesn't break the rules. :)

    I'd love to see you repost the salient points in haiku form, minus any thrusting with the pointy edges of a bat'leth.

    Better yet... is there such a thing as a Klingon haiku? I'd almost pay to see that with a parallel translation :D

    EDIT: Nevermind... temporarily forgot about the English-Only rule...
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
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  • neo1nxneo1nx Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I almos tnever lose agro on what im shooting in stf's, and I'm running a mega tank/low dps fleet galaxy with beam arrays/supporting torps, three lvls in threat control and an embassy console.

    Either every kumari pilot I have ever come across sucks, or tanking is viable.

    remove the ambassy console and try again, if the result stay the same, yes the kumari pilots that you fly with really suck!
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    the galaxy R, i actually found a use for it!

    on my eng i never use anymore with no doffs or rep or anything, i can put together a ship with 2 EPtS1, 2 EP2W2, 2 FAW, 2 HE, 2 ET, and 2 AtS and win CE every time, and out heal all the shard damage i attract.

    eh, could basically use anything and do as well, but it was nice to use it and actually win something with it.

    dont mistake this for being satisfied with it though. oh, side note, on tribble i could get my fleet negvar a 40 turn rate, and could only get about 20 on the fleet galaxy. yep, a difference of 3 base makes doubles the turn rate the negvar can have over the galaxy.

    wile being able to cloak, have a universal ens, and being able to use DHC, and with a 40 turn rate, ya, it can use them
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I'm curious as to what everyone would like done to the galaxy to "fix" it. I'll go ahead and post what I think the Galaxy should have been.

    Exploration Cruiser Retrofit

    Hull: 40,000
    Shield Modifier: 1

    Basically, I'm leaving this alone there isn't really anything wrong with it.

    Bridge Office Stations

    LtCmd Tac
    Cmd Eng
    Lt Eng
    En Sci
    Lt Sci

    I didn't just pull this officer layout out of nowhere. This is actually based on the Exploration Cruiser Refit aka Venture. They started to give the Galaxy a good layout and then abandoned it and gave it anther engineering station for whatever reason. Anyway, this offers the ship some tactical options and is a little science heavy, but not heavy enough to step on the Support Cruiser with its LtCmd Sci station.

    Console Layout:

    3 Engineering
    3 Science
    3 Tactical

    Balanced layout which gives it a jack of all trades master of none feel. Not sure where I'd go with the Fleet version though I'd probably like a tac console I think it's more realistic to have an extra engineering console.

    Maneuverability:

    Turn: 6
    Inertia Rating: 25

    While I'm not a fan of this I don't think the Galaxy deserves a turn rate increase so much as all cruisers. I find anything below 7 to be painful and annoying to fly, but that's a matter of opinion so I'm leaving this alone.

    So what does everyone else think the Galaxy should be?
    Tza0PEl.png
  • kintishokintisho Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    UMMMMMM

    Galaxy X Dred.... Cannon = OWNS U

    STO it = RedicuFAIL

    Fix that one first upgrade it to battle cloak and turns better than a broken down tractor some more armor and it MIGHT be ok...
  • lord7tareqlord7tareq Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    nikephorus wrote: »

    While I'm not a fan of this I don't think the Galaxy deserves a turn rate increase so much as all cruisers. I find anything below 7 to be painful and annoying to fly, but that's a matter of opinion so I'm leaving this alone.

    So what does everyone else think the Galaxy should be?

    I feel the minimum turn rate of cruisers should be 7, with only carriers having a potentially lower turn rate. A little bit of extra turn rate won't make cruisers into nimble birds all of a sudden, but the jump from turnrate 5.5 to 7 for a D'deridex or from 6 to 7.5 for a Galaxy makes those ships just that little bit more userfriendly without really affecting balance (Cruisers aren't exactly top of the food chain anyway)
  • hasukurobihasukurobi Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I almos tnever lose agro on what im shooting in stf's, and I'm running a mega tank/low dps fleet galaxy with beam arrays/supporting torps, three lvls in threat control and an embassy console.

    Either every kumari pilot I have ever come across sucks, or tanking is viable.

    Heh... You said it not me... Honestly though... Fly with someone who really knows how to put out the damage and we will see if your threat control makes a sliver of difference. I have no points in threat on ANY character and I regularly steal aggro from EVERYTHING out there in any ship I fly (Odyssey, Atrox, Kumari, Vesta, Kar'Fi, Pan'qu, Bortasqu', Chel'Gret).

    The honest truth is: A lot of folks either A) Have NO idea what they are doing or B) Do not care and want to run with very bad setups.
  • neo1nxneo1nx Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    We also have not forgotten about our plans for an updated Galaxy-X that includes saucer separation.

    response from the last ask cryptic, i love the word "includes" which mean there seem to be more than just saucer sep.
    well it seem that our 3 years "whining" help us finally:)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArSLNJNUEIM
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,579 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    does not help the base galaxy though which is what this thread is about the galaxy retrofit with 2 nacelles and no lance
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Generally, there is couple of things that would help galaxy. if there were diminishing returns for tac consoles, the difference between 2 console and 5 console ships would not be that great. The other is to add more engineering powers on ensign level. These two simple changes would give Galaxy more viability without altering the stats of the ship.
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  • neo1nxneo1nx Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    i am all for moving tractor beam or/and polarize hull to engi power ( science have too much good ensign bo power )
  • neo1nxneo1nx Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    gpgtx wrote: »
    does not help the base galaxy though which is what this thread is about the galaxy retrofit with 2 nacelles and no lance

    i think that everything that help galaxy x will help galaxy retrofit, there are no big difference between this 2 ships, they suffer the same problem, engi heavie bo layout, bad turn rate and inertia.
    they are other that are specific to eatch ship but these one are big issue.

    cryptic should work on these ship with a pack realease in mind i think.
  • neo1nxneo1nx Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    Generally, there is couple of things that would help galaxy. if there were diminishing returns for tac consoles, the difference between 2 console and 5 console ships would not be that great.

    no, the idea to nerfed other ship to make this one viable is not good and certainly not what gecko will do anyway.
    i am more in favour of a new beam power, BFW for 1 target, this would involve no beam drain changes, no nerfed to canon or tactical console.
    escort would still be the best dps dealer, pve will not be affected since bfaw multitarget would still be best for killing npc quickly, and the beam user in pvp will not feel useless.
    more variety, more option for player, more fun.
  • emacsheadroomemacsheadroom Member Posts: 994 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I just noticed with nearly 1000 replies this is the longest thread in the Fed shipyards forum, and yet the devs still refuse to acknowledge that they made the Galaxy class into a useless piece of TRIBBLE when compared with every other top tier ship.
  • neo1nxneo1nx Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    well it is sure that they don't made an official comment about it, but i think that they are somehow agree with us, not just about the galaxy class, but about cruiser in general, they seem to remediate for that lately.
    the CE event who the intention was to reward more the people that heal and tank, the desire of gecko to give more resistence to cruiser ect.
    it is not a direct agreement but the intention is line up with ours, meaning, make cruiser suck less or feel usefull...again.
    it daesn't translate into something tangible for now, but i think it is the intend that count.
  • ozy83ozy83 Member Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    As much as I want to believe you, unless I actually see an an announcement from Gecko or any other dev stating that they want to make cruisers more competitive, I wont hold my breath.

    We've been waiting for a 10 console Galaxy X for what.. 15 months now. It'll probably be another 15 months when "We're still ironing out technical difficulties" finally stops being used as an excuse.
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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    neo1nx wrote: »
    well it is sure that they don't made an official comment about it, but i think that they are somehow agree with us, not just about the galaxy class, but about cruiser in general, they seem to remediate for that lately.
    the CE event who the intention was to reward more the people that heal and tank, the desire of gecko to give more resistence to cruiser ect.
    it is not a direct agreement but the intention is line up with ours, meaning, make cruiser suck less or feel usefull...again.
    it daesn't translate into something tangible for now, but i think it is the intend that count.

    Gecko was pretty clear when he said beams were working as designed. Most of this thread is about increasing the DPS output of cruisers. And Geko is standing by his assessment that cruisers are where he wants them to be in terms of DPS output.

    So I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Also, the changes to EPtX powers currently on Tribble demonstrate that the developers really don't have much of a useful overall plan for engineering BOFF powers with shared cooldowns. So the Galaxy is going to be getting a bit of a nerf in May.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jtoney3448jtoney3448 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Cause what the galaxy needs is nerfed right? lol. Devs seem to show no insight into engineer. They make all the EPX more useful and then nerf shield hard, yay now borg can 1 shot us easier dispite our ships being the "tanks".

    What eng need is more/useful boff abilities so that galaxy isnt gimped and like usual cryptic took step forward and 2 back. And sadly DPS is going to be more important with a new tholian rep. The only good thing i see is the new uni console with +10% to beam dmg. Only problem is while this helps the galaxy it also helps every other beam cruiser thus still leaving this ship in last place.

    Im sure people think some ship must be the worst, honestly thats not true. Tons of ways to balance and make ships on par, cryptic just chooses not to.
  • gralerongraleron Member Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    In the end, it isn't so much that it's a particular ship, or even a class of ship that's definitively the worst, it's an entire group of bridge officer abilities. If Engineering had fewer issues with cooldown conflicts, especially at Ensign level, and had one or two additional offensive options, then cruisers--especially the Tier 5 Galaxy variants--would be in decent shape.

    Instead, come May, Cryptic is monkeying around with Emergency Power abilities in a way that does nothing but nerf cruisers. Not good.
    Vice Admiral Elaron, USS Hard Light
  • skywolf73skywolf73 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    they will wait till 99% of players run escort and escort only. then they will scratch their heads and start wondering about balance, or just realize the guy they have in charge of said balance is a either a total moron or has such a hard on for his escort in game he sees the need to nerf anything that isnt an escort.

    we get a turn buff at lest. and warp cores will make aux builds better, allow players to get more power into engines or shield. so there is that, but nerfing tank of one class of ships across the line, and forcing cruisers that cant turn to rely on speed tanking is silly but its about where we are at.
  • skyranger1414skyranger1414 Member Posts: 1,785 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    neo1nx wrote: »
    well it is sure that they don't made an official comment about it, but i think that they are somehow agree with us, not just about the galaxy class, but about cruiser in general, they seem to remediate for that lately.

    You say that but until a few ago there was still talk of an armor slot to make cruisers tankier.... which is not the way to go about it.
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