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EPtX rebalance on tribble

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  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    That tanking of damage due to drain is why I think EPTW needs a passive buff to weapon drain that lasts the 20 second duration of its effect. Possible an effect that would make the weapon power regen slightly quicker for the 20 seconds.

    Isn't it currently used as a means to overcap for beamboats? Why can't other things be used in that 10 second gap while also getting 4x the duration of a fixed damage boost, and less uptime on resists/power levels of targets? Seriously what am I missing?
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013

    ...
    and you guys love it, wtf is wrong with you.

    Whoever loves that, loves more the idea of change that the change itself. It brings a novelty to a game that becomes very repetitive and creates a challenge for more efficient new builds. I bet that a different change, with less impact to the core of the game mechanics would be received with similar enthusiasm. And again, this is Cryptic's fault for releasing all types of "god mode" resist that created this ordeal to begin with...

    For example: reducing the resists compared to what is now, so less shield power would be much less resist versus how it is now, and as you increase the shield power you gain more resists. For example under 50 sheild power (with ep2s) you get no bonus, 50-60 5% resist, 60-70 10% so on. This would not create such a discrepancy between escorts and other classes, cruisers can still use high power to shields. Ep2W should be probably designed to give a better boost to beams versus cannons. And if the intention was to create gaps in between powers, what's the purpose of all those Doffs anyways? Attack pattern doff, you can have 2 apo3 (damage boost), aux2bat you can have only one ep2x power, why would you add all those "double the x ability" doff if you want gaps in between them? This change is definitely less choice on the long run, after people will get bored with changing builds they will start remembering the "good ol' days of 30 sec ep2x" same way they do remember preseason 1.2 or pre f2p, lol.
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • edited April 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Whoever loves that, loves more the idea of change that the change itself. It brings a novelty to a game that becomes very repetitive and creates a challenge for more efficient new builds. I bet that a different change, with less impact to the core of the game mechanics would be received with similar enthusiasm. And again, this is Cryptic's fault for releasing all types of "god mode" resist that created this ordeal to begin with...

    For example: reducing the resists compared to what is now, so less shield power would be much less resist versus how it is now, and as you increase the shield power you gain more resists. For example under 50 sheild power (with ep2s) you get no bonus, 50-60 5% resist, 60-70 10% so on. This would not create such a discrepancy between escorts and other classes, cruisers can still use high power to shields. Ep2W should be probably designed to give a better boost to beams versus cannons. And if the intention was to create gaps in between powers, what's the purpose of all those Doffs anyways? Attack pattern doff, you can have 2 apo3 (damage boost), aux2bat you can have only one ep2x power, why would you add all those "double the x ability" doff if you want gaps in between them? This change is definitely less choice on the long run, after people will get bored with changing builds they will start remembering the "good ol' days of 30 sec ep2x" same way they do remember preseason 1.2 or pre f2p, lol.

    It's not liking change for the sake of change. It's liking change that encourages tough choices, actually thought to power mgt again, thoughtful piloting, general situational responses, teamwork, and adaptation.
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • emoejoeemoejoe Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    hurleybird wrote: »
    Mini has consistently been for any balance change that benefits his playstyle, and against any that hurt it. I've found this to be true for the entire time he's been posting on the forums.

    lies. ive only ever been biased towards GOOD PVP

    you my friend.. here is a list of your sins.

    2010: you are a fed noob asking on forums "cant u make a bop that just doesnt cloak? whats the point of cloak anyway, seems "cheap"

    2011 : In lore, you abuse the broken tac captain res boost bug, then have the audacity to claim it was fine as is, u thought i was a bad idea to change it. (later post bugfix, tac team came to exist to placate qqers. like you.)

    2012: You have some small chances and opportunities with ****ok, who was ten times the player you will ever be, despite your real life pay to win 3 monitors, 20g sound system you brag about. and foot pedals. yeah. jorf has foot pedals for his pc. and u fail to commit entirely to the concept i have roven thoroughly

    2013: U down on sto so hard fleeto mwo where u hide behind ur team, berate them after every match, and buy every cbill mech. you come back to sto to troll true leet pvpers. guys who ram in sto and tunnel in mwo

    So what is my prefered playstyle i have been favoring from the begining jorf?

    only "the" style, the ONLY ONE appropriate for a BATTLE CLAOKING ship. 3 years later u still wanna 2 x rsp on a bop dotn u man? With rom boff and soon rom race decloak bonuses... you still want to play fedstyle as klink.

    it iant my style, i may be the loudest supporter and greatest champion of the one hit wonder kill, whatever season or methodology, but i aint the only one doing it.

    sadly i alert true noobos who emulate then add ams and qq results in overnerfing what i had finally perfected. be it psw main, trico main, quantum main, or bo3 main damage component.

    all ive done is add nonbiased opinions from a perspective. I am actually saying with my feedback here, hooray for empta, empte.... i dotn care about empts anyway man.. u dotn even read.....
    oh and ive hosted what, 1000 big pvp games? yeah lets be positive and not just an TRIBBLE. thanks for wasting 10 mins of my life



    Such vitriolic hate from u is why pandas have such a bad name in this game. end rant

    what you have called "minimax's playstyle"

    what a croc. You have no understanding
  • blurrachiblurrachi Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    get em lol
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    p2wsucks wrote: »
    It's not liking change for the sake of change. It's liking change that encourages tough choices, actually thought to power mgt again, thoughtful piloting, general situational responses, teamwork, and adaptation.

    I totally understand where you're coming from, but IMO this change will do more bad than good overall, due to many of the already explained reasons. I am sort of excited also, but more worried on the long run on the effect this change will have.

    And just to be clear, i am not thinking from my point of view only. at least I try not to, my main is a KDF tac (and a KDF sci as a second, I barely play FED and when I do I also have a tac - which tacs benefit the most from this change, I think everybody agrees, I also have only one eng that I dont play because it is too boring for me, few more other fed tunes from beta and season 1, but that's irrelevant anyway, lol), so I can always jump in a BoP and be very annoying. Or slot a 2nd tss and compensate. I am trying to distance myself from all that's good and bad for me as an individual and try to think also as a fed, as a sci and an engi, because tacs in escorts got the bonus clearly with this change.
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • blurrachiblurrachi Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    i really dont think this change is the be all end all,the seasoned vets will indeed adapt,players will become more resourceful and as said in an post earlier something of the past that will be laughed about. allthough the advantage is given to tact captains who time there skills. idk about now,but when i was active,not alot of tact capt had leet timing,mind you the window was probable shorter,but under these cirumstance,that 10 window to the seasoned vet is just a field day,but there are other things to use in the mean time,im sure some of the l33t healers we all know and respect wont have an issue with this. i'd assume.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Here's my thoughts to get nice and buried in the thread:



    1. It won't change spit on an escort. I mean, seriously, is it really gonna change much compared to how it is now. More that they are going to just still slot 2 EPTS and just have to wait a few seconds, that's all.

    2. This change will just simply push even MORE people in PvP towards those damnable Elite Fleet Shields, since those will still offer an TRIBBLE-ton of easily gained and kept resists. Sure it'll dip down a little bit between EPTS rotations (barring an SNB of course), but they will still easily avoid a good portion of all damage due to defense, and then a massive portion of any damage normally that actually does hit them due to fleet shields.

    3. Cross-healing is still a major thing, and you can build up gigantic resists due to them until the inevitable SNB. EPTS or no,

    4. Going on the previous statement: Expect tighter-knit Fedballs and more BoP alphas.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    p2wsucks wrote: »
    It's not liking change for the sake of change. It's liking change that encourages tough choices, actually thought to power mgt again, thoughtful piloting, general situational responses, teamwork, and adaptation.

    this doesn't create new strategies or give us new options, nothing else changed. slow movers are just more vulnerable, and have a built in kill me period now, with nothing new that they can use to mitigate that. a lone cruiser puging is totally nonviable, they are not a healing backbone on a pug team on thier own anymore, they are the most helpless target 10 seconds out of 30.
  • blurrachiblurrachi Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    this doesn't create new strategies or give us new options, nothing else changed. slow movers are just more vulnerable, and have a built in kill me period now, with nothing new that they can use to mitigate that. a lone cruiser puging is totally nonviable, they are not a healing backbone on a pug team on thier own anymore, they are the most helpless target 10 seconds out of 30.

    so no1 plans on useing a tss 3 in between the down time?? did they break that skill or something?
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    p2wsucks wrote: »
    Isn't it currently used as a means to overcap for beamboats? Why can't other things be used in that 10 second gap while also getting 4x the duration of a fixed damage boost, and less uptime on resists/power levels of targets? Seriously what am I missing?

    I was thinking that the increased duration of EPTW might make weapon drain worse and kinda offset its intended buff.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    You can tell me the truth, Roach...you're very happy!:D

    I like the EPTA, EPTW (kinda), EPTE ideas but like others think the EPTS changes need further consideration.

    How do you feel aboit them?
    Do you think it'll make your Vessel less defended by not having a continiuos EPTS or a overlapping EPTS/EPTx combo in light of the 10s-25s gap?

    Timing is more important now it seems.

    I wonder how this will effect A2B builds when brought to holodeck?
    Spacebar spamming just changed abit as well I guess.

    Overall though it seems that playing STO is a constant cycle of adapting tonsudden unforeseen change.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    blurrachi wrote: »
    so no1 plans on useing a tss 3 in between the down time?? did they break that skill or something?

    the majority of ships cant even use TSS3. its something that we already have and use. why? because we already get shot, and often enough its pretty hard to survive with EPtS being a functional part of your ship as it is. the cooldonws arent going to match up next time you have a hole left by EPtS.
  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Okay, so let me get this straight. Most ships (ones that are good in PVP, anyways) use EPtS to restore shield facings and apply a resistance buff.

    Now that is being nerfed - and while this means that Escorts can be a little squishier, it also means that cruisers will also have that gap in protection. And considering that cruisers depend on shield (and hull) heals, with EPtS as a must-have skill, this is a death warrant!

    But since Cryptic never listens to us anyways... What can cruiser pilots do to compensate for the gap in protection?
    stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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  • thegrimcorsairthegrimcorsair Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Okay, so let me get this straight. Most ships (ones that are good in PVP, anyways) use EPtS to restore shield facings and apply a resistance buff.

    Now that is being nerfed - and while this means that Escorts can be a little squishier, it also means that cruisers will also have that gap in protection. And considering that cruisers depend on shield (and hull) heals, with EPtS as a must-have skill, this is a death warrant!

    But since Cryptic never listens to us anyways... What can cruiser pilots do to compensate for the gap in protection?

    Activate high-aux Aux2SIF.

    Activate DOff'd BFI.

    Save EPtS for when its about to be focused.

    Click RSP.

    Activate a high-aux TSS 2/3.

    Activate a high-aux Hazard Emitters.

    Activate Tactical Team.

    Activate Jam Sensors VS one of the primary damage dealers attacking you.

    Get healed by its teammates.
    If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I find this thread depressing and full of short sightedness.

    1) If EPTS is responsible for the majority of your resistance your build is garbage to begin with. Grab a maco shield or fleet shield and bam, EPTS isn't even responsible for half of your resists.

    2) Co-ordinated burst attacks already rely upon sub nuke buff stripping for the most part, no change there.

    3) Lone wolf burst has always relied upon the enemy having his pants down, this change does little to effect it as you should still have a Tac Team, TSS, RSP, Feedback Pulse, or any other number of 'o TRIBBLE' reactions available.

    4) This is a huge decrease to available sustain. Each ship will be getting a 1/3rd reduction to the duration of the stupid strong regen that EPtS provides. This is the heart of the balance issue of EPtS in my opinion, the sustain it provides via the resistance combined with the regeneration.

    5) EPtE change is amazing. Seriously it can nearly double a whale turn rate.

    6) Go Down Fighting change on tribble will lower standard burst potential.

    7) Warp cores will mean an extra 6 (roughly) power for everyone. Hey look a little extra resist if you want it.

    8) This change allows more hyper specialization without limiting the middle of the road options. That is a good thing.

    Most of these complains are knee jerk. You all will adapt.

    *edit addon*
    Let me put it this way, did everyone find a way to survive just fine against burst damage pre fleet shields?

    Good, then you will be able to find a way after the EPtX change.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Why are we even arguing about sustained dmg ?

    There is no such thing as weapon drain anymore.

    Have none of you installed your KCB ?

    How many of you (tac cruisers) don't run Aux to Bat with Dem + Dem doffs ?

    I'm sorry but claiming a change to EPTS .... is some how going to make cruisers squishy and unable to maintain weapons power is a freaking joke of the 100th degree.

    We have more sustained damage now then we have ever had before and yet we say pressure damage is dead.

    Why ?

    Its simple there is far to many skills that boost your shield resist.

    Right now there is one that even does it 100% of the time.... not broken at all you guys are all right. We should completely have skills that are 100% uptime... that also happen to impart more of the type of resistance that make pressure damage pointless.

    Anyone that really thinks EPTS 100% up +20 or more resist on it... is good design... or is good for the game. Is thinking about nothing but there own build.

    If your an engi you should be rejoicing right now. You will be fine you have rotate shield freq to cover the gap... you have EPTS to cover the gap... and your oh no button might in fact come in handy... AND the real big plus IF you time your EPS + Nadion for just the right time you might even do some damage.

    I assumed everyone of the long time players would be extremely happy to hear cryptic is at last looking at the core skills that have broken balance in this game for over 2 years... I am honestly shocked and a bit sad that people are so selfish.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Why are we even arguing about sustained dmg ?

    There is no such thing as weapon drain anymore.

    Have none of you installed your KCB ?

    How many of you (tac cruisers) don't run Aux to Bat with Dem + Dem doffs ?

    I'm sorry but claiming a change to EPTS .... is some how going to make cruisers squishy and unable to maintain weapons power is a freaking joke of the 100th degree.

    We have more sustained damage now then we have ever had before and yet we say pressure damage is dead.

    Why ?

    Its simple there is far to many skills that boost your shield resist.

    Right now there is one that even does it 100% of the time.... not broken at all you guys are all right. We should completely have skills that are 100% uptime... that also happen to impart more of the type of resistance that make pressure damage pointless.

    Anyone that really thinks EPTS 100% up +20 or more resist on it... is good design... or is good for the game. Is thinking about nothing but there own build.

    If your an engi you should be rejoicing right now. You will be fine you have rotate shield freq to cover the gap... you have EPTS to cover the gap... and your oh no button might in fact come in handy... AND the real big plus IF you time your EPS + Nadion for just the right time you might even do some damage.

    I assumed everyone of the long time players would be extremely happy to hear cryptic is at last looking at the core skills that have broken balance in this game for over 2 years... I am honestly shocked and a bit sad that people are so selfish.

    QFT.

    Honestly I cannot believe the posters whom I thought had similar views to my own that are denouncing this change. Nor those who I typically vehemently disagree with typically that are embarrassing it.

    It is twilight zone around here lately.
  • hurleybirdhurleybird Member Posts: 909
    edited April 2013
    emoejoe wrote: »
    lies. ive only ever been biased towards GOOD PVP

    With the only criteria for if something is "good for PvP" being if it benefits you and force more people to play like you do? Sure. :rolleyes:

    Mini, everyone here knows you have never supported a change that weakens your playstyle, or complained about one that helps it. You want people to believe that it's coincidence? You add an incredible bias to any balance discussion.
    emoejoe wrote: »
    2010: you are a fed noob asking on forums "cant u make a bop that just doesnt cloak? whats the point of cloak anyway, seems "cheap"

    I'll freely admit to being a noob in 2010, though I'm quite certain I never said anything like that. Perhaps you're thinking of that PvEr who stole my avatar?
    emoejoe wrote: »
    2011 : In lore, you abuse the broken tac captain res boost bug, then have the audacity to claim it was fine as is, u thought i was a bad idea to change it. (later post bugfix, tac team came to exist to placate qqers. like you.)

    I never claimed that Cryptic shouldn't fix the bug, though I did state that tacticals should be given something else to compensate. In terms of the metagame at the time, I was right, and teams were moving away from fielding any more than one tactical.
    emoejoe wrote: »
    despite your real life pay to win 3 monitors, 20g sound system you brag about. and foot pedals. yeah. jorf has foot pedals for his pc.

    Yes, I play with three monitors. I'm an audiophile (my rig only costs about 10G, by the way), and footpedals are an affordable addition that I wholeheartedly recommend. They work great for targeting team mates!

    My chair costs 3 grand as well. Are you going to hold that against me too? Is my extreme level of comfort giving me an unfair advantage on the battlefield? :P

    And is any of this actually relevant to your or my motivation towards approaching balance debates? No.
    emoejoe wrote: »
    and u fail to commit entirely to the concept i have roven thoroughly

    Your concept has been proven to fail, even when the metagame somewhat supports it your playstyle gives mediocre returns. If your concept actually did work and was proven there'd be a hypothetical "team minimax" sitting on the spot at the PvP table that Pandas occupies today. You haven't came anywhere close.

    There's a total of two possibilities that can explain your complete failure to create a competitive team utilizing your playstyle over the course of the game: Either your playstyle plain doesn't work, or it theoretically could work except that you yourself are not capable of high level play.
    emoejoe wrote: »
    2013: U down on sto so hard fleeto mwo where u hide behind ur team, berate them after every match, and buy every cbill mech. you come back to sto to troll true leet pvpers. guys who ram in sto and tunnel in mwo

    Not wanting to tunnel rush with you in MWO is a PvP sin? Really?
    emoejoe wrote: »
    Such vitriolic hate from u is why pandas have such a bad name in this game. end rant

    The only vitriol I see is coming from you, Mini. Ever since MT got into a BoP and rapidly perfected what you've been trying to do since launch you've been strangely agitated and aggressive towards Pandas as a whole. Maybe you should just let go of the petty jealousy and ask MT for help? I know he's willing.
  • edited April 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    But since Cryptic never listens to us anyways... What can cruiser pilots do to compensate for the gap in protection?

    Hrmmm, how about a more specific example, eh? Here's the build for my main KDF Eng in his Kamarag Retro - I.K.S. Attrition. It's not a finished build by any means.

    Kamarag Retro w/ Eng Captain

    Traits - Accurate, Elusive, Efficient Captain, Warp Theorist

    Passives
    New Rom (T4) - Precision, Sensor Targeting Assault
    Omega (T4) - Omega Weapon Training, Omega Graviton Assault

    THY1, DPB1
    TS1

    EPtS1, RSP1, EWP1, AtS3
    EPtS1, ET2

    PH1, HE2, TSS3

    DOFFs - 3x PWO(Torp), SDO(BFI), MAS(EWP)

    Deflector - Positron Mk XII [PrtG][FlwC][Em]
    Engine - Hyper Mk XII [Aux][Spd][Turn]
    Shields - Resilient Mk XII [Cap]x2[Pla]

    Weapons
    Fore - Romulan Plasma Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2, Omega Plasma Torp, 2x Plasma Torp Mk XI [Acc]x2[CrtH]
    Aft - Cutting Beam, Hyper-Plasma Torp, Plasma Torp Mk XI [Acc]x2[CrtH], Plasma Mines Mk XII [CrtD]x2[CrtH]

    Consoles
    Tac - 3x Ambiplasma Mk XI
    Eng - Borg, Nadeon, RCS Mk XI, Neut Mk XI
    Sci - 0Point, PDS

    Devices - SFM, Aux Batt, Eng Batt

    Hrmmm, so I've got to find a way to cover that 10s gap that will be created with the changes. I can see some long term and short terms that I could probably address, eh?

    Obviously, I'm going to need to work toward the Fleet K'Maj to pick up the +10% Hull/Shield Mod and the +1 Sci Console. With that Sci Console, will likely slot the Nukara Particle Converter.

    Speaking of consoles, I should probably replace the Nadeon with a Rule 62, eh? Also, can't forget to replace the RCS with a Tachyo.

    And with replacing things, I should probably look at grabbing the Mk XII KHG Deflector/Shields when I hit T5 for Omega Rep. As for the Engines, the +5% Defense from Aegis would likely help out, eh? Would let me roam around at +75% Bonus Defense.

    Likely drop the Romulan Turret, move the Cutting Beam fore, and add the Nukara Web Mines aft.

    The DOFFs need to be upgraded from Rare to Very Rare at some point.

    With Passives, it will be a case of adding the active Quantum Singularity Manipulation with T5 New Rom. There's also the Nukara Rep - so that would be Fortified Hull, Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense, and the Refracting Tetryon Cascade.

    There will also be the changes to traits. Beside the four he's already got, it will be a case of adding Astrophysicist, Techie, EPS Manifold Efficiency, Grace Under Fire, and some random lolGround trait, eh?

    Wait a second. That all sounds like what I was planning to do before they mentioned any of the changes to the EPtX powers. So what am I doing to cover the 10s gap on this guy? Hrmmm, guess I'll do the same things that I'm doing to cover the fact that I'm not running TT on the guy?

    Okay, so exactly was the change to EPtS supposed to fix? The way to kill this guy will be the same - Sci/Escort duo - strip 'n park - boom - dead. So what are the EPtX changes supposed to do?

    /cough

    As I've mentioned here and there... if the idea is to reduce the use of EPtS with the changes - it's an epic joke.

    The 2x EPtS guys are going to keep running it. Cruisers can cover the gap with oodles of TRIBBLE. Science Vessels can break out the shenanigans to cover the gap. Escorts can just speed tank the gap.

    What may happen though, imho, is the following:

    The 1x EPtS guys will end up running 2x EPtS. Cause if they run just one, they're looking at a 25s gap instead of a 15s gap they had been comfortable covering.

    The EPtS/EPtX guys will end up running 2x EPtS. It's one thing to gamble with the DCE DOFFs knowing you might get stuck with a 15s gap instead of a 0s gap...and...a completely different thing when that gamble is hoping for a 10s gap instead of a 25s gap.

    So yeah...the change that some see as being meant to reduce EPtS usage? Hell no, I see it increasing the usage at the expense of the other abilities.

    Sure, there may be some cases where folks will run another EPtX instead. My Fed Sci is going to love having that buff to StealthSight for 20s instead of just 5s. But then again, he's primarily a Snooper. Some decloak alpha folks will likely run EPtW to try to make up for the loss of damage from GDF not being available until they're at 50% hull. They'll probably try to time their alpha attacks during those 10-25s gaps of course to try to make up more of that damage.

    There will be folks that try all sorts of things, no doubt...but in my tired of discussing this opinion - it's just going to increase EPtS usage. So that amongst other thigns...is why the change is such a complete fail. :(

    There's no doubt in the least that the EPtX abilities need to be adjusted. This is not the adjustment that you're looking for...
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    this doesn't create new strategies or give us new options, nothing else changed. slow movers are just more vulnerable, and have a built in kill me period now, with nothing new that they can use to mitigate that. a lone cruiser puging is totally nonviable, they are not a healing backbone on a pug team on thier own anymore, they are the most helpless target 10 seconds out of 30.

    Tbh, I've been thinking of builds that don't even use EPtS, but EPtE and EPtW for tac builds for better damage and better ability to be in position to apply it when desired. I've been thinking of EPtE/EPtA builds for Sci B'rel builds (I already have an Aux2batt build that uses EPtA as it's only EPtX ability) for better debuffs and better ability to change position offensively/defensively. More power mgt means EPS becomes desirable again depending on the build (not to mention some Eng captain powers). Perhaps shield oriented deflectors become desirable over more SIF oriented ones. Even for battle cruisers EPtW/EPtE and lower engine/weapon power presets to dump in shields, wait for Plas Leech/MACO to kick in. EPtE, Aux2Damp, Omega shields for lolz. Imo, these fairly small changes to 4 skills opens a lot up.

    Slow boats can just adjust their cycles, there's plenty of options:

    Perhaps people use better repair consoles, but sacrifice Debuff/Buffer console capabilities? Perhaps people plan ahead and get behind the high damage dealers, if they ship is too slow use a Jam Sensor, AMS, SS&PSW, Battery w/doffs, Sci Team, TSS, ES from teammate, Sci captain resist boost, Eng Captain abilities, kill someone/force them off in the 1st 20 seconds it's up, nuke the damage dealers weapons power, debuff the damage dealers damage capabilities by another means (eg tbr for distance), debuff damage dealer's movement while boosting one's one, instead of spiral up stick to where there are obsticals to take cover, rsp w/high shield power/preset, if nothing else Maco shields and a Max shield power preset for those 10 seconds would do in terms of getting the defense (hardly a helpless position since they'll be getting +10 to add to w/e the max shield power preset is for any build), 2 part borg, lolz fleet shield resists, passive repair sci consoles, rep system passive repairs, Fed fleet shield vamp elite weapons, +defense rating builds, etc.
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Activate high-aux Aux2SIF.

    Activate DOff'd BFI.

    Save EPtS for when its about to be focused.

    Click RSP.

    Activate a high-aux TSS 2/3.

    Activate a high-aux Hazard Emitters.

    Activate Tactical Team.

    Activate Jam Sensors VS one of the primary damage dealers attacking you.

    Get healed by its teammates.

    And when those are not available due to cooldown, or bad team, say your sto prayer, lol. Really, I do believe that most of people that are excited about this change will regret it later and wish to have a totally different change as a reason to be excited about. I'm not referring to anybody in particular, but those supporters will realize the negative impact of those changes.
    The HE/TSS will be kept for self healing rather than castable to team player. I do agree though that the mumbo-jumbo heals in this game are ridiculous, but I also support the idea that those are not the best changes to address this issue.

    If you hold on TT till the end of 20 sec eps, you may as well not need it since you're dead already. jam sensors will only delay the inevitable by few secs, and a good sci will not mind it too much either and can still kill you, even w/o sci team to clear it.

    All hull resist will give you maybe 2-3 secs of extra time, just enough to finish your sto prayer before you go in virtual oblivion...

    come on guys, this is not the proper way to fix the bads in this game! Not saying there shouldnt be a fix for this stupid god mode all the rep system and stupid bonuses created, but that's not the one some devs that have no clue on how cooldowns work on ep2x have implemented it... way of having diversity...

    Edit: This is definitely won't gonna be the end of sto, but will create way too much overhead compared to a smarter change, like just reducing the ep2s resist, buff ep2w beams more than cannons, ep2e for more turn than power.
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I can tell you one immediate effect this has had: I made some new toons to capitalize on the Junior Officer thing. I was about to get new ships for them to fly to pilot them into that CE event from the C-Store and Fleet Store. Now that I am not certain those ships aren't going to be worthless, sitting duck scrap, I have indefinitely postponed those purchases. This change seems to be the final nail in the coffin for cruisers: Without the ability to maintain uptime on those Engineering powers, you'll basically have to stop cycling them. This removes your ability to run 2 different ones, which is the bread and butter of cruiser layouts. Engineering powers have thus become rather useless, and in turn, cruisers are now useless.

    But hey, at least we can't say they never did anything for the KDF. I decided I'd build a BoP instead. But those are free.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    And when those are not available due to cooldown, or bad team, say your sto prayer, lol.

    Then you die.... whats so bad about that.

    1) Manage your cool downs... this is MMO 101... and unfortunately most people playing STO are either old MMO players that have forgotten that... or this is there first MMO and they have yet to learn.

    2) Stop being so darn defensive all the time.... You know in every other MMO I have ever played there has been the "glass cannon" you know the builds that live by not taking fire... and they don't take fire cause they in fact kill things. Those builds suck when there not in a team in general... there isn't anything wrong with that.

    Frankly for far to long everyone in this game has played turtle mode. We do it in our own builds we plan to pug... rolling EPTS and tac teams and omegas. We do it in our teams rolling tons of healing and extends... playing turtle mode waiting for our nuke cool downs.

    Yes its time for Cryptic to in fact trim the healing... and yes impose some cool downs on our silly always on super resist skill.

    Anyway long post... simple answer though is yes... if you can't figure out a way to roll some defense through a 10s gap... you do in fact deserve to die.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Then you die.... whats so bad about that.

    1) Manage your cool downs... this is MMO 101... and unfortunately most people playing STO are either old MMO players that have forgotten that... or this is there first MMO and they have yet to learn.

    2) Stop being so darn defensive all the time.... You know in every other MMO I have ever played there has been the "glass cannon" you know the builds that live by not taking fire... and they don't take fire cause they in fact kill things. Those builds suck when there not in a team in general... there isn't anything wrong with that.

    Frankly for far to long everyone in this game has played turtle mode. We do it in our own builds we plan to pug... rolling EPTS and tac teams and omegas. We do it in our teams rolling tons of healing and extends... playing turtle mode waiting for our nuke cool downs.

    Yes its time for Cryptic to in fact trim the healing... and yes impose some cool downs on our silly always on super resist skill.

    Anyway long post... simple answer though is yes... if you can't figure out a way to roll some defense through a 10s gap... you do in fact deserve to die.

    I agree that is nothing wrong (at least not a major "wrong") to die every now and then. But this change does not fix anything, it's just buffing more the escorts at the expense of sci and eng. I am not saying it is hard to have a tss for that 10 sec gap. Especially aux2batt builds can still do that with only 1 tss. But Cryptic could cut the healing by just reducing the shield resist so it will be more buffed with high shield power and not buffed at all with 50 shield power. This ep2x change makes escorts more powerful and cruisers and sci weaker. A sci won't be able to use other powers for lt or ltc because they need to slot 1-2 tss. That they most likely need for themselves, which I agree, cuts the crosshealing but still doesn't address the issue of the magic resists/heals. It just limits the choices and the team play. It is time indeed for Cryptic to trim the healing, but this is the wrong way to do it, you change the basics which can change everything (especially when done by people that have no clue what the cooldowns are for ep2x - typical cryptic fail) rather than think the whole process a little more and change something less relevant that can bring the desired results. This game will become even more an escorts online game than it has ever been.

    Edit: forgot to add something: Mediocrities from Cryptic, I absolve you... I absolve you... I absolve you all... Vote democrats and hope the government will fix your game, lol. But only if you'll play Mozart...
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    2) Stop being so darn defensive all the time.... You know in every other MMO I have ever played there has been the "glass cannon" you know the builds that live by not taking fire... and they don't take fire cause they in fact kill things.
    And that's precisely what will happen, yes: Since defense will become pointless, all defensively oriented ships are worthless scrap and the only things worth flying are pure-offensive ships that rely on not taking fire at all for their defense...BoPs, and to a lesser extent, escorts.

    This is pretty much the opposite of what was desirable for the game, which already tilts towards this direction as it stands.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I love the new EpTE for example, but my greatest fear is that while dmg is not going down, the various tools for surviability are going down. Leadership = nuked to death, EpTS gap...what come next ? TT nerf ? That would make the circle complete and make everyone play cloaked romulan :P I think we are seeing a deadly combination of changes to active abilities , while the passives (which were mostly cause of the problem) remain as they are.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    You guys are really pretty funny.

    I don't and have never rolled dual EPTS ever.

    Only recently have I been able to keep epts up all the time with doffs... and that isn't 100% there is still plenty of times I am rolling around with no epts at all up.

    I also never ever run more then one TSS on my sci ships... there isn't really any need.... unless you really are the team sci healer.

    I know it sounds crazy to people... and I know we beat into the head of every new player that he needs EPTS and he better have a TSS... ect ect.

    I don't mean that to sound like a brag... but come on many of you have fought my toons and I don't think anyone laughs that Husanak is an easy kill look no EPTS. lol ;)
    I don't mean that to sound like a brag... I am simply saying I KNOW the game doesn't break if you don't run dual copies of EPTS... the meta will evolve and in general overall I don't think its that major and really with out other changes not much will change.

    Really this game has so many defensive buffs that yes you can easily roll around with out EPTS for long stretches of time.

    Will this change make it more complicated to play this game... sure a little bit.

    However... wait are we not always saying that this game is easy mode and mostly you can roll your face across the keyboard while puggen ect.

    Those escorts everyone is worried about that are going to be exploiting 10s gaps.... (which is how it works now anyway with tac team down... unless we have nukes around and then heck EPTS wasn't doing squat for you anyway was it) They are also going to be dealing with the same gap.

    I would say now Cryptic needs to address Tac Team... and Omega stacking with Terribly doffs. (I know the AP doffs cost us all a fortune of EC... but lets all be honest there terribly over powered). At that point we would have a game again... where Engi Cruisers are needed... and escorts don't zoom around laughing off everything that comes there way with stupid high defense and effective shield amounts of 40-50k.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
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