See, we DON'T have an option to NOT run into premades. .
It isn't that we missed your point. It is that your point just doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the games limitations.
You are basically saying you want queues for people that require training wheels to pvp. You want a ranking system so the better teams are forced to fight the better teams so you can enjoy some success instead of having to work to get better?
You are basically one of those people that don't want dodgeball played in your or your childs school?
How about instead of the game coming down to your level you try to improve up to its level. I certainly don't mean to this with any sarcasm I just don't understand that kind of attitude.
Let me put it in your own terms.
If I was one of those guys hanging out at the park playing football, instead of letting my guys run off to a new park I would start scheduling pratices so we could get better. Maybe with enough time you might beat that pro team. I certainly don't find running away from the Pro team to be any type of solution.
Why are you affraid to compete?
The talent level in STO isn't so great a difference as Pro atheletes are to guys on the street. I have been in PUGs and beaten pre-mades. It certainly isn't common but it does happen. Compete.
bottom line even when I PUG and I start the team (granted is not very often at all) I always type in for the team to stya close for heals and use "personX" to target assist off of.
Now that might seem like a very hard thing to do but in all reality it isn't hard to do at all.
Voice chat does not make a team it helps a team deal with a situation that might have not been dealt with before but truely not a severe advatage.
If DPS wasn't so high that focus fire can drop a ship in under 5 seconds, the gap between teams on vent and PUG groups would be smaller. It might not even be a big deal.
As it is currently, the difference between the 1.5 secs it takes a lone pugger to target the best the opportunity and the near instantaneous called targeting of a team on a voice server is almost half the time it takes to burn a target down from full. So voiced premades don't just have an edge, they have a decisive advantage.
What some of the L2P crowd doesn't seem to understand is: I (and many others) do not want to spend my free time in a vent channel listening to some high-schooler who is failing remedial English tell me how to play the game all day long.
The idea of separate queues and skill-ratings is a good solution, but like others here I wonder if we have a big enough player pool for it to work without a lot of bad side effects.
Adding in-game voice comms would help too. If I could join a pug team and have some voice coordination it would help a lot. I could always mute a player if they are more annoying than helpful, and most importantly, I don't have to "social network" like some of you have suggested is necessary. If I have to use voice comms to be competitive in a game then I will, but they should be built-in and limited in scope to the current engagement (team, match, etc.) so I don't have to coordinate with people outside the limited time I have to play. I have seen it work in other games where casual players can get in on the coordination without having to join a fleet and try to make friends with a bunch of people who they may have nothing more in common with than playing this particular game.
The best solution imo is to fix the dps so that voice comms aren't necessary to be competitive. If the pace of the fights was a bit slower then that 1.5 sec advantage of called targeting wouldn't be such a big factor in determining the outcome.
The childish behavior in this thread from the players defending the superiority of their premade teams and their personal "skillz" is a perfect example of why I don't want to be forced to into fleet premades on vent to get a fun competitive game of pvp. Winning every match I ever played wouldn't be worth having to socialize with people like that. :rolleyes:
Holy TRIBBLE there is some crying here. Que and play or quit. Adding another Que system will only hurt the game more. Ques suck as it is. Great lets segregate the world even more and even on-line. Just say No! to more Stereotyping and Racisism... Look at that premade you know what they are like. Get over it and Que and play. Then again I have a fleet to play with, question is why do you not play with someone. I think we all know that answer. Flame me for not understanding your "Post". blah blah blah blah is all that it was.
If you don't like it, stay the hell out of my queues.
Go away necromancer...
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It is, in fact, a relevant topic. Our pvp scenarios are so small in scale it's almost impossible to avoid a 5 man team of hard rollers. Even I finally joined a pvp fleet because of it. If we had larger scale battles, much, much larger, a single premade would not be so prodominant. You might not even notice them.
Wow had pvp down to an art. Alterac Vally was my favorite battle ground. It pitted probley 100 players against each other on a very large map with many pve objectives that would tip the scaled in their favor.
The problem isn't the premades at heart. The problem is hbow bland our pvp game selection is, and that the best we have is death matches.
i do a lot of pvp pugs. they are almost always free-for-alls. no talking, no planning at all.
in a regular pug vs pug i can hold my own and often enough find myself on the winning team. a little harder against Klingons.
i do find going up against a pre-made team to be frustrating. you know it is going to be a slaughter.
i am not saying this is fair or unfair, simply the way it is. i have no problems with this.
i do see the OPs point though that these pre-mades do run a lot of people off. i have routinely finished against a pre-made team where from 1 to 4 players in the pug quit very soon in the match. i always stay because i get my dilithium and EC win or lose.
i would think one solution might be similar to STFs; you have the normal and you have the elite.
i would like to see PVPs at 3 levels; beginner, intermediate and pro.
personally, there are a few pre-mades i would like to kick the **** out of. i will keep trying.
Perhaps a mechanic that scrambles the teams when they enter a Q would solve this problem. The premades could still have their blood fueds in private matches.
It is, in fact, a relevant topic. Our pvp scenarios are so small in scale it's almost impossible to avoid a 5 man team of hard rollers. Even I finally joined a pvp fleet because of it. If we had larger scale battles, much, much larger, a single premade would not be so prodominant. You might not even notice them.
Wow had pvp down to an art. Alterac Vally was my favorite battle ground. It pitted probley 100 players against each other on a very large map with many pve objectives that would tip the scaled in their favor.
The problem isn't the premades at heart. The problem is hbow bland our pvp game selection is, and that the best we have is death matches.
Makes me wonder just how many 'pro' PvPers there really are; and how many casuals you'd need for them to be lost in the crowd.
Makes me wonder just how many 'pro' PvPers there really are; and how many casuals you'd need for them to be lost in the crowd.
The pvp fleets are all very small. They have 10-20 active players each at best, and they are not all online at the same times often. The problem with premades is the amount of people who pvp. There is often only 1 of each game going on at a time so if a premade is playing you will run into them over and over due to lack of games filling.
The problem isn't the premades. The problem is the amount of people playing and the small scale of our pvp encounters.
Also, what this community dosn't understand due to their lack of mmo experience is that the classes funtion differently and they need to adapt to different play styles when combatting players. They zerg their way to VA and then freak out when they can't dent a pvp player.
The STO player community is a very uneducated lot in regards to mmo gaming.
Makes me wonder just how many 'pro' PvPers there really are; and how many casuals you'd need for them to be lost in the crowd.
I think the more important distinction should be pro pvp teams and pro (individual) players. You might have one guy that is a regular Maniac Marshall and can take on 2-3 guys by himself and flies by the seat of his pants, but is a horrible team player and can cost a team the match because the enemy realizes he goes off alone and capitalizes by overwhelming him or taking on the now 4 v 5 team.
On the otherhand someone like me who is new and doesn't know everything can't be like that guy, but I understand the importance of teamwork and that everyone needs to play their part to be successful and everyone needs to keep an eye out for their mates. Personally I think I'm a great team player, even if the results don't show it just yet.
i do a lot of pvp pugs. they are almost always free-for-alls. no talking, no planning at all.
in a regular pug vs pug i can hold my own and often enough find myself on the winning team. a little harder against Klingons.
i do find going up against a pre-made team to be frustrating. you know it is going to be a slaughter.
i am not saying this is fair or unfair, simply the way it is. i have no problems with this.
I would disagree with this, our pre-made teams have gone up against some very good pug teams that have won or put up a good fight. Some undoubtedly are premades on voice comms that just look like pugs but some I suspect were just well coordinated through the use of team chat. I have gone into matches with just one or two of my fleetmates with a pug team and just by using team target team heal keybinds have managed to pull out very impressive victories against fleet premades. Of course, often times targeting and healing information can go unnoticed or ignored by pugs, but such is life...
Comments
ya like STO has the number of subs that WOW has which makes this kind of approach possible...
if you want endless queues and hours of waiting to get into a match, then by all means, let's go for it!
lol... this thread makes me laugh...:rolleyes:
It isn't that we missed your point. It is that your point just doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the games limitations.
You are basically saying you want queues for people that require training wheels to pvp. You want a ranking system so the better teams are forced to fight the better teams so you can enjoy some success instead of having to work to get better?
You are basically one of those people that don't want dodgeball played in your or your childs school?
How about instead of the game coming down to your level you try to improve up to its level. I certainly don't mean to this with any sarcasm I just don't understand that kind of attitude.
Let me put it in your own terms.
If I was one of those guys hanging out at the park playing football, instead of letting my guys run off to a new park I would start scheduling pratices so we could get better. Maybe with enough time you might beat that pro team. I certainly don't find running away from the Pro team to be any type of solution.
Why are you affraid to compete?
The talent level in STO isn't so great a difference as Pro atheletes are to guys on the street. I have been in PUGs and beaten pre-mades. It certainly isn't common but it does happen. Compete.
Vllad
bottom line even when I PUG and I start the team (granted is not very often at all) I always type in for the team to stya close for heals and use "personX" to target assist off of.
Now that might seem like a very hard thing to do but in all reality it isn't hard to do at all.
Voice chat does not make a team it helps a team deal with a situation that might have not been dealt with before but truely not a severe advatage.
Perfectly stated. Thank you
you have way too much free time on your hands my friend...
coming soon...hopefully
Go away necromancer...
wow classic thread is classic.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Wow had pvp down to an art. Alterac Vally was my favorite battle ground. It pitted probley 100 players against each other on a very large map with many pve objectives that would tip the scaled in their favor.
The problem isn't the premades at heart. The problem is hbow bland our pvp game selection is, and that the best we have is death matches.
in a regular pug vs pug i can hold my own and often enough find myself on the winning team. a little harder against Klingons.
i do find going up against a pre-made team to be frustrating. you know it is going to be a slaughter.
i am not saying this is fair or unfair, simply the way it is. i have no problems with this.
i do see the OPs point though that these pre-mades do run a lot of people off. i have routinely finished against a pre-made team where from 1 to 4 players in the pug quit very soon in the match. i always stay because i get my dilithium and EC win or lose.
i would think one solution might be similar to STFs; you have the normal and you have the elite.
i would like to see PVPs at 3 levels; beginner, intermediate and pro.
personally, there are a few pre-mades i would like to kick the **** out of. i will keep trying.
Makes me wonder just how many 'pro' PvPers there really are; and how many casuals you'd need for them to be lost in the crowd.
The pvp fleets are all very small. They have 10-20 active players each at best, and they are not all online at the same times often. The problem with premades is the amount of people who pvp. There is often only 1 of each game going on at a time so if a premade is playing you will run into them over and over due to lack of games filling.
The problem isn't the premades. The problem is the amount of people playing and the small scale of our pvp encounters.
The STO player community is a very uneducated lot in regards to mmo gaming.
I think the more important distinction should be pro pvp teams and pro (individual) players. You might have one guy that is a regular Maniac Marshall and can take on 2-3 guys by himself and flies by the seat of his pants, but is a horrible team player and can cost a team the match because the enemy realizes he goes off alone and capitalizes by overwhelming him or taking on the now 4 v 5 team.
On the otherhand someone like me who is new and doesn't know everything can't be like that guy, but I understand the importance of teamwork and that everyone needs to play their part to be successful and everyone needs to keep an eye out for their mates. Personally I think I'm a great team player, even if the results don't show it just yet.
I would disagree with this, our pre-made teams have gone up against some very good pug teams that have won or put up a good fight. Some undoubtedly are premades on voice comms that just look like pugs but some I suspect were just well coordinated through the use of team chat. I have gone into matches with just one or two of my fleetmates with a pug team and just by using team target team heal keybinds have managed to pull out very impressive victories against fleet premades. Of course, often times targeting and healing information can go unnoticed or ignored by pugs, but such is life...
IT livvves
We've beaten some fleets and other pugmades in them.
/channel_join OrganizedPvP and ask for a team already.
This message is awesome.
They're always for feds though.. :rolleyes:
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Ah, for the KDF:
/channel_join KDFPVP