Cool, deep and thoughtful. You don't even know me man. Been playing since closed beta. I can about guarantee I have more game time than you.
ROFL, i have more gametime then you....so you live in STO and your bragging?
I can say that your post is truely why klingons laugh at feds. I would love for you to come into vent with us and talk
otherwise go back to writing roleplaying bios and awesome cool background stories for all your characters that can not handle pvp.
In fact can i recoomend that you start a toon and name it "verga". She is a whiney little girl from the planet of WHambulance. She was discovered by one of yoru other lame toons that you roleplay with that found her after she got a mudhole stomped in her by the mighty DOB fleet premade. Your toon came to the rescue of the other toon and they fell in love and went out to make ugly whiney babies on the planet of QQ (second home of the mighty Q)
there the 2 grew old and died with the shoe laces of the boots from the members of DOB still coming out of their mouths from the size 13 that was lodged in thier rears.
....after that I can not RP any further
I'll leave it up to you and your LEETSAUCE that OWNS PUG PVP
ROFL, i have more gametime then you....so you live in STO and your bragging?
I can say that your post is truely why klingons laugh at feds. I would love for you to come into vent with us and talk
Come into your vent so you can throw insults at me. Wow.. I am so tempted by that.
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Genuflect, shom some respect
Down on one knee!
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Brush up your sunday salaam
The come and meet his spectacular coterie
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Who sent those goons to their lords?
Why, Prince Ali
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He's got fifty-three
When it comes to exotic-type mammals
Has he got a zoo?
I'm telling you, it's a world-class menagerie
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Adjust your vein and prepare
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Heard your princess was a sight lovely to see
And that, good people, is why he got dolled up and dropped by
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.__________>/^\<
| ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '|__\
| WAMBULANCE - | i<<
I_______________|I
..""(@)"""""""""(@)"............
Hey bro I even found a starship you can fly for that new toon
.__________>/^\<
| ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '|__\
| WAMBULANCE - | i<<
I_______________|I
..""(@)"""""""""(@)"............
they're trolling you because you keep taking the bait. they believe that your entire notion is stupid, shallow, pedantic, and a waste of forum space. Due to the fact that you cannot see the opposing viewpoint which was laid in front of you, they have begun to harass you for ***** and giggles.
if you wanted them to stop, stop replying to them.
it took you 10 minutes to say that ?
seriously....the fact that you get rocked in PVP and come to the pvp forums to cry about it shows you sir are the one lacking the real intelligence and the real lack of coordination that is needed to be a successfull member fo the PVP community.
I am sorry that you lack the ability to "play with the other kids in the sandbox". Maybe you PUG becasue it is the only true social interaction one such as yourself can muster up in an MMO and the whole idea of being a Premade makes you angry stemming from a deep seeded angst towards all the kids that never picked you in grade school for dodgeball, or maybe it comes form the time you were kicked off the "red rover red rover send eleven on over" varsity squad in 2nd grade, either way it shows that your true lack of understanding is leading you down a destructive path of crying on the forums which can only be cured by learning to play your class to the fullest ability and actually finding a team that can compliment your team,. I do feel sorry for you, Hopefully one day you see that much like the characters in Star trek world; communication, teamwork and real strategy are the keys to victory. Not spamming about how you do not want to fight against players that are better than you.
thank you for understanding that although I lack the mental capacity you envelope with your amazing witty insightful posts you will never be as good at playing a video game, or performing to themaximum potential as a human being.
May god have mercy on your soul.
this one wasn't a troll, but it was highly insightful (just dig past the flames).
translation: If you can't accept the fact that people group together for pvp then quit playing. additionally, if you lack the ability to get a premade going, then you should reconsider your actual skills. Finally, I'm sorry that you can't accept the fact that you are not "an amazing player"
protip: 90% of feds can't out dps a cruiser in 50 weapons power. seriously.
I do see the appeal in the OP's and others suggestions. I am a very casual player due the fact that I have little free time. I have given up on PVP for various reasons, mostly because I can't run vent and have lag and controll issues with most of the maps (500 dollar gateway laptop). But also that it's frustruating when you run into a group of players who are much better organized and skiled VS you and some random people. Maybe, if there were a system in place to better match me agains people like me it would be more enjoyable. Don't get me wrong, I do want a challange, but, I don't want it to be hard either. I dont' want to come away from the match feeling like there was no way I could have played better, or that I am a terrible player.
P.S. Why is it when one of these posts gets started there are always those who say "Quit whining!"?
Whining or not, the only way to bring attention to something you like or dislike is to say something about it.
Hell its the basic idea behind the first amendment. Theres no reason to debase anyone because their viewpoints dont align with yours.
It's not like the pre-mades want casual players in their match's ruining their fun.
Or just provide some kind of stiff penalty for dying in a battleground, like full looting rights. Things that will keep those casuals from even considering entering a battleground.
I hear people talk about how pvp is serious business, a sport where winning is everything. With hardcore penalties and a restricted queue you can limited entry to only the best.
It's not like the pre-mades want casual players in their match's ruining their fun.
Or just provide some kind of stiff penalty for dying in a battleground, like full looting rights. Things that will keep those casuals from even considering entering a battleground.
I hear people talk about how pvp is serious business, a sport where winning is everything. With hardcore penalties and a restricted queue you can limited entry to only the best.
Something stinks here ? isnt it the famous smelly elitism ? Keep in mind the "casuals" usually pay for the game keep going, not the "hardcores", which are always the (most loud) minority.
I would like to see separate queues, one for random pvp (aka you enter solo), and one for team play. That way everyone is happy, and you dont need to split the community into the "casuals" and smelly elitists.
Something stinks here ? isnt it the famous smelly elitism ? Keep in mind the "casuals" usually pay for the game keep going, not the "hardcores", which are always the (most loud) minority.
Ah, not according to the people playing here in STO.
It's a team sport, get with the program or get out (just dont cancel or stop queuing solo because that will add to the down time).
Really, I only pug. I have not earned the right to play in their battlegrounds. I don't use vent and I don't have a team. I don't belong. Neither dose anyone like me.
Now, granted, I did cancel and I did stop queuing which dose not help them or STO but that's just secondary consideration, the important thing is playing the right way.
seriously....the fact that you get rocked in PVP and come to the pvp forums to cry about it shows you sir are the one lacking the real intelligence and the real lack of coordination that is needed to be a successfull member fo the PVP community.
I never stated I was "rocked" by anybody. Please use the exact quote where I stated that. Furthermore, it was a simplification of the scenario a lot of players face out there, who don't live in the game 24/7 or have not found a fleet that fits them yet. Or their fleet is a group of friends and they can't get together all the time. This is not that uncommon of a scenario. Of course, you have missed this point entirely and jump to conclusions so far from the mark you might as well be posting in another forum.
I am sorry that you lack the ability to "play with the other kids in the sandbox". Maybe you PUG becasue it is the only true social interaction one such as yourself can muster up in an MMO and the whole idea of being a Premade makes you angry stemming from a deep seeded angst towards all the kids that never picked you in grade school for dodgeball, or maybe it comes form the time you were kicked off the "red rover red rover send eleven on over" varsity squad in 2nd grade, either way it shows that your true lack of understanding is leading you down a destructive path of crying on the forums which can only be cured by learning to play your class to the fullest ability and actually finding a team that can compliment your team,.
Since you know nothing about me, I will throw most of this paragraph away for what it really is... useless ASSumptions. Most MMO games that have pvp offer at least 2 tiers of game play for casuals and "hard core" players. I use quotes around "hard core" because a lot of "casual" players are just as dedicated but unwilling, or unable to get a group together constantly for pvp. You need to think about others a bit to see this. Try it.
I do feel sorry for you, Hopefully one day you see that much like the characters in Star trek world; communication, teamwork and real strategy are the keys to victory. Not spamming about how you do not want to fight against players that are better than you.
thank you for understanding that although I lack the mental capacity you envelope with your amazing witty insightful posts you will never be as good at playing a video game, or performing to themaximum potential as a human being.
May god have mercy on your soul.
No sir, it is I who feel sorry for your lack of reasoning. I love a good challenge. I have no problems with that. There is a difference though. You have yet to grasp that there is an inherent advantage to premades vs pugs. Some of us only have a few minutes to play sometimes, but want to. I have met some AWESOME players in pugs that just give me a run for my money. Good times.
You are lacking the empathy as well. You have filled every one of your posts with massive amounts of assumptions. You have not asked me to clarify anything. You have assumed everything, then answered your own thoughts, pretty much saying they were mine to start with.
Sorry you can't handle the idea of 2 tiers. If you are a premade player, then you should LOVE the idea. Would you rather not have more direct action against other fleets of premades? Or maybe you are not interested in a challenge?
You see, I want a challenge. Pug vs. Pug is a challenge..and random fun..because you never know what you are going to face. Premade vs Premade is a challenge, but for the reasons of coordination and tactics.
But a pug vs a premade is going to be a suicide run 99% of the time. That is not a challenge. That is the match equivalent of SNB + VM for 15 kills. It is not fun, it is not interesting.. and it does not make one want to queue up. Sure, some people want this kind of abuse. Cool, go for it.
it took you 10 minutes to say that ?
seriously....the fact that you get rocked in PVP and come to the pvp forums to cry about it shows you sir are the one lacking the real intelligence and the real lack of coordination that is needed to be a successfull member fo the PVP community.
I am sorry that you lack the ability to "play with the other kids in the sandbox". Maybe you PUG becasue it is the only true social interaction one such as yourself can muster up in an MMO and the whole idea of being a Premade makes you angry stemming from a deep seeded angst towards all the kids that never picked you in grade school for dodgeball, or maybe it comes form the time you were kicked off the "red rover red rover send eleven on over" varsity squad in 2nd grade, either way it shows that your true lack of understanding is leading you down a destructive path of crying on the forums which can only be cured by learning to play your class to the fullest ability and actually finding a team that can compliment your team,. I do feel sorry for you, Hopefully one day you see that much like the characters in Star trek world; communication, teamwork and real strategy are the keys to victory. Not spamming about how you do not want to fight against players that are better than you.
thank you for understanding that although I lack the mental capacity you envelope with your amazing witty insightful posts you will never be as good at playing a video game, or performing to themaximum potential as a human being.
May god have mercy on your soul.
tbh i think they actaully have a bit of a point.
In a pug v pug match (ok time of day dependant) they are likely to lose 99% of the time. I am a reasonable player and i have not needed a fleet or a premade to pvp successfully. i have bumped into some premade groups, and some full fleet premades trying to learn the ropes one called serenity took some flak from an TRIBBLE because they lost and decided to stop kvf. This was a shame and i was iin tells with them over it, i hope they get the experience they need working as a team (5 people starting to play together for the first time even from the same fleet are not an instant top premade) and return to kvf.
However, i see good players from the kdf pug regularly, players like santa, blackjack, isis, D'rek, Rattlesnake, maag, dork, co'hok (names off the top of my head and i have a bad memory for names so missed some, and spellings might be a bit off). Some of those are gettting better as time passes. If a pug meets one of two of those in a grp they are going to lose, and in all honesty they are going to meet one or two you those. Yet where are your good players? they are in the fleet premades and wont come out, ok not 100% true i have seen some a couple of those vaunted players and guess what they got hammered, they had no impact on the team performance and lost badly, so i guess they actually quit too, made a channel and only play as a full grp, vs other full grps. So now the federtation puggers have very few players to learn from through observation. It is one thing to read that bland how to pvp basic guide, it is another to watch some good pvp'ers in action and ask some questiosn about how they managed to do what they did.
Seems to me the problem for the federation is the cowards who need to hide in their premade vent communicated teams because they are frightened thehy might get hammered again when they venture out on their own.
I would like to see separate queues, one for random pvp (aka you enter solo), and one for team play. That way everyone is happy, and you dont need to split the community into the "casuals" and smelly elitists.
Dalnar,
Perfectly reasonable suggestion, and there have been several this thread - with the exception of the OP whose entire point was to tell a story why he thinks premades are bad for the game.
I don't think STO will be making changes that separate premade and pugs just because other games have done it, at least not yet. The STO PvP community simply isn't big enough to divide into little groups right now. Adding queues for 1v1 on the other hand wouldn't divide the community.
Problem with duels is that games are usually balanced on team play, not duels. Thus duels can create some "imbalanced" scenarios, and huge amount of whines.
The reason this thread has become so derailed and trolled is due the part of the OP's argument where he says pvp is being ruined by premades and because the OP is so easy to troll. In his analogy he states that all premades purposely go find pug groups to stomp on, tell them to l2p, and then get mad at the pug when they don't want to.
In all the times I've played with my premade we've never told a pug or premade "l2p noobs" or "spend more time playing" during a fight or right after we win a fight without cause. I have however, when playing against pugs and premades been called a cheater, exploiter, hacker, and so on because they don't understand that teamwork + skill knowledge + individual skill beats individual skill. I cant count how many times vs other players that I've used target subsystem shields 3 on an escort and then proceeded to destroy it in 5 seconds only to be called a hack cause according to him its impossible to do what i just did. Then when I explain how to do it, the guys says "oh cool i gota try that, thanks for the tip!" So right there I went from a cheater to a helpful player. This is why some premades, but not all, might say l2p. I'm sure there are your leet premades who think they're amazing and do like stomping noobs and then taunt them but don't generalize cause just as many bad things can be said about pugs.
As for the second point of the thread, having the ability to queue up against premade teams and fleets would be a welcomed feature. Right now though, premades don't have that luxuary of always knowing they'll fight against a premade so they have to join the regular queue in hopes that they do face off against one. Sometimes you get lucky and face a premade and sometimes you get a pug who thinks the premade is after them. Also, there is no feature in game that allows premades to set up matches or find each other. The closest thing to that is what akumarev has started with his premade pvp channel where he's trying to gather all the premades on there so premades can set up matches and each join an empty queue so they can have a fight. I understand that fighting against a premade in a pug can suck but its not the premades fault so dont hate on them. Its not like every premade is purposely seeking out pugs to pwn on. Also its not like they have the ability to always avoid pugs. Premades aren't going around seeing which map has a bunch of pugs they can pwn on simply because they don't have the ability.
to the OP, you are MISSING the point. PVP is in its very nature a competative event. Nothing drives the competition more than organization and teamwork. Think about this if you can try; klingons enter a FVK, they can not be in a fleet not be in a vent channel but can sit there cloaked out of range and strategize on what to do who will target who who will heal who will be locked down ect.....Essentially turning that PUG of klingons into a tightly organized group with strategy and tactis ready to go and destroy the enemy. A premade does not always have the time to sit in game and get ready like that.....that is where being in a Premade group is important. Random chaos and button mashing in hopes that there will be a understood form of teamwork happening without any real communication is a pipedream. By your loic of thinking that Premades ruin your fun, then klingon PUGs that play well together ruin your fun as well due ot the fact they can get do everything a premade can do previous to any shots being fired.
As for your analogy of a pro football team VS a non pro team....I have coached football for over 7 seasons, it is completely ignorant for one team to think that the comp will be weak or that they are going to steam roll the other team due to all of them having the same name (fleet tag). As wrath said He has beaten fed premades before with a klingon PUG. So I guess by your logic he doesn't need to que up for a "PUG que" then because he is a good player that teamed up with other PUG klingons that were good as well?
Bottom line, if you want to get better then sitting in a PUG will NOT do that for you, if your goal is to PEWPEW with your lasers then go to the B'tran nebula and fly into an anomoly and kill some enemies there.....wait those must be a Premade group too because they are all on the same team too?
Your posts scream of a disgruntaled beaten and broken fed player that can not except that a game with pvp will eventually push players that want to get better into an organized format.
I am sorry that you can not find a fleet that fits you, if you spent half the time looking for a fleet that you spend whinign on the forums then you mgiht find one for you. Hell you might even be able to get a Premade yourself and get better at playing too.
Bottom line even with a PUG / premade que system there is NOTHING stopping a fleet from queing up going in to the PUG fights. The people that have contradicted you have done so in hopes that you will eventually see that in order to become the best player you can be it takes learning from others and WITH others.
I am done trying ot antagonize you with ****y little posts this is an effort from one "premade pvper" to a non pvper. If you want good PVP with a real level of comp then get a group of friends or in fleet, you do not need 5 we go in with 3-4 sometimes and get a PUG out of it. Learn to play well together and enjoy a higher more compitent level of PVP that unless you do this you will never be bale to achieve. BTW you can get free VOIP software if you really wanted to try using voice chat.
Lastly....I could take 4 of my fleetmates, we could all get off ventrilo and still beat the ever loving doodoo out of the enemy, why? becuase we learned to play with each other and we all know our roles on a team....and it is NOT DPS down the enemy.
Jarus I feel bad for you, your words of hurt and pain and disappointment (as I and many others percieve them to be. SO it doesn't matter how you wanted them to come across, they came across as a beaten man) show a player that has been beaten into submission to the point where he must comne on the forums and scream for Premades to no longer fight against him.
I my self have played in Pugs and Premade teams using vent. 9 times out of 10 the Premade will stomp the heck out of the PUG. I can't see how this fun for any one. I certainly do not get any statisfaction out of tearing a pug group up.
It gets old and boring. On the same token I have played in alot of pug groups. Often I am the one who will group feds up. I have been in pug groups that are slaughtered and sometimes a pug group that rules the field.
I use the PUG group pvp to learn more about my ship and other skills. I simply do not let a loss bother me especially when I know we are up against a Premade calling targets. Calling focus fire is effective and demoralizing. Often times I have been in premades that do exude a certain elite obnoxious attitude and I can see where this is a turn off to the casual player.
It would be nice if things could be set up better separating pugs from teams. But as some one pointed out the PVP community is pretty small at this point. I can see where it will be a while before this happens.
Until then...make the best of it. Don't let it get to you and when you can kick some butt. Also consider this...often times you will not see some one who normally works in premades alone with out his pack. In other words...they avoid being part of a pug....That is because that player tends to be weak with out back up. Consider the source. ;-)
I think if they allow 1v1 pvp matches, then they should allow us to use our Bridge Officers in those matches.
Oh and... I prefer Pugs, unless it is a premade with guildies, because I get more challenge that way. I never know if the feds beside me will be good or bad. I like to find out. If they are bad, then I go solo and die trying to win hahaha.
Guild Wars:
Random Arenas for PUGS
Team Arenas for (wait for it) teams.
o rly? is that why they removed team arenas because no one played it and the metagame got stagnant? oh, and what about team syncing to get premade groups into RA, ya that still happens. I did that all the time.
the only reason why the team stuff in gw exists is because there is a tangible reward for playing it that you can only get by playing in those arenas. In extension, there would have to be a tangible reward for teams playing in the "team arenas" that only they could get, like fame sticks, even better rewards, and stuff that the carebears would cry about for not being able to get because they can't get it without a premade.
o rly? is that why they removed team arenas because no one played it and the metagame got stagnant? oh, and what about team syncing to get premade groups into RA, ya that still happens. I did that all the time.
the only reason why the team stuff in gw exists is because there is a tangible reward for playing it that you can only get by playing in those arenas. In extension, there would have to be a tangible reward for teams playing in the "team arenas" that only they could get, like fame sticks, even better rewards, and stuff that the carebears would cry about for not being able to get because they can't get it without a premade.
Yes, there were ways to rig the random arenas, and yes most good groups went to GvG instead of TA. However, my point was that it makes sense to split the two types of play, because organized teams will almost always trash PUGs.
yea you may start solo, and encoutner premade, but as you Q , play the game, and know people, you end up meetign godo pvper, and start makign a lil group when you pvp, wich will make pug encounter very easier, and then you get to create you own 5 man with friend in pvp,
this is nto everything, not because you have a premade that you will be good
some terrible premade out there... soemtimes, i join alone with with a friend is a pug group vs a premade, and the premade got destroy becuase me / my friend made the whole damn diference
and damnit, me a a friend in a game... 2 vs 4, and we won 15-0, yea that how bad people can be
so you loss is abotu 2 things : you low skill level, and the fact that you dotn find anyone to play with
ist a MMO , wake up, no one will be equal with flower and love liek most n00b wish,
If DPS wasn't so high that focus fire can drop a ship in under 5 seconds, the gap between teams on vent and PUG groups would be smaller. It might not even be a big deal.
As it is currently, the difference between the 1.5 secs it takes a lone pugger to target the best the opportunity and the near instantaneous called targeting of a team on a voice server is almost half the time it takes to burn a target down from full. So voiced premades don't just have an edge, they have a decisive advantage.
What some of the L2P crowd doesn't seem to understand is: I (and many others) do not want to spend my free time in a vent channel listening to some high-schooler who is failing remedial English tell me how to play the game all day long.
The idea of separate queues and skill-ratings is a good solution, but like others here I wonder if we have a big enough player pool for it to work without a lot of bad side effects.
Adding in-game voice comms would help too. If I could join a pug team and have some voice coordination it would help a lot. I could always mute a player if they are more annoying than helpful, and most importantly, I don't have to "social network" like some of you have suggested is necessary. If I have to use voice comms to be competitive in a game then I will, but they should be built-in and limited in scope to the current engagement (team, match, etc.) so I don't have to coordinate with people outside the limited time I have to play. I have seen it work in other games where casual players can get in on the coordination without having to join a fleet and try to make friends with a bunch of people who they may have nothing more in common with than playing this particular game.
The best solution imo is to fix the dps so that voice comms aren't necessary to be competitive. If the pace of the fights was a bit slower then that 1.5 sec advantage of called targeting wouldn't be such a big factor in determining the outcome.
The childish behavior in this thread from the players defending the superiority of their premade teams and their personal "skillz" is a perfect example of why I don't want to be forced to into fleet premades on vent to get a fun competitive game of pvp. Winning every match I ever played wouldn't be worth having to socialize with people like that. :rolleyes:
Comments
ROFL, i have more gametime then you....so you live in STO and your bragging?
I can say that your post is truely why klingons laugh at feds. I would love for you to come into vent with us and talk
otherwise go back to writing roleplaying bios and awesome cool background stories for all your characters that can not handle pvp.
In fact can i recoomend that you start a toon and name it "verga". She is a whiney little girl from the planet of WHambulance. She was discovered by one of yoru other lame toons that you roleplay with that found her after she got a mudhole stomped in her by the mighty DOB fleet premade. Your toon came to the rescue of the other toon and they fell in love and went out to make ugly whiney babies on the planet of QQ (second home of the mighty Q)
there the 2 grew old and died with the shoe laces of the boots from the members of DOB still coming out of their mouths from the size 13 that was lodged in thier rears.
....after that I can not RP any further
I'll leave it up to you and your LEETSAUCE that OWNS PUG PVP
Come into your vent so you can throw insults at me. Wow.. I am so tempted by that.
Let me sign up for that one :rolleyes:
THE PREMADE VENT IS GOING TO SAY L2P
Matt_Dravis ( and his site about a similar request here http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=127714
Rojon
Kashnar
and that is about it.
Just as most people at one time thought the world was flat, the majority of people in history are typically wrong as hell.
I am glad to be sticking with the thinking minority.
Say hey! It's Prince Ali
Hey! Clear the way in the old Bazaar
Hey you!
Let us through!
It's a bright new star!
Oh Come!
Be the first on your block to meet his eye!
Make way!
Here he comes!
Ring bells! Bang the drums!
Are you gonna love this guy!
Prince Ali! Fabulous he!
Ali Ababwa
Genuflect, shom some respect
Down on one knee!
Now, try your best to stay calm
Brush up your sunday salaam
The come and meet his spectacular coterie
Prince Ali!
Mighty is he!
Ali Ababwa
Strong as ten regular men, definitely!
He faced the galloping hordes
A hundred bad guys with swords
Who sent those goons to their lords?
Why, Prince Ali
He's got seventy-five golden camels
Purple peacocks
He's got fifty-three
When it comes to exotic-type mammals
Has he got a zoo?
I'm telling you, it's a world-class menagerie
Prince Ali! Handsome is he, Ali Ababwa
That physique! How can I speak
Weak at the knee
Well, get on out in that square
Adjust your vein and prepare
To gawk and grovel and stare at Prince Ali!
There's no question this Ali's alluring
Never ordinary, never boring
Everything about the man just plain impresses
He's a winner, he's a whiz, a wonder!
He's about to pull my heart asunder!
And I absolutely love the way he dresses!
He's got ninety-five white Persian monkeys
(He's got the monkeys, let's see the monkeys)
And to view them he charges no fee
(He's generous, so generous)
He's got slaves, he's got servants and flunkies
(Proud to work for him)
They bow to his whim love serving him
They're just lousy with loyalty to Ali! Prince Ali!
Prince Ali!
Amorous he! Ali Ababwa
Heard your princess was a sight lovely to see
And that, good people, is why he got dolled up and dropped by
With sixty elephants, llamas galore
With his bears and lions
A brass band and more
With his forty fakirs, his cooks, his bakers
His birds that warble on key
Make way for prince Ali!
.__________>/^\<
| ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '|__\
| WAMBULANCE - | i<<
I_______________|I
..""(@)"""""""""(@)"............
it fits perfectly
so in short, you have nothing intelligent to add.
Got it
they're trolling you because you keep taking the bait. they believe that your entire notion is stupid, shallow, pedantic, and a waste of forum space. Due to the fact that you cannot see the opposing viewpoint which was laid in front of you, they have begun to harass you for ***** and giggles.
if you wanted them to stop, stop replying to them.
seriously....the fact that you get rocked in PVP and come to the pvp forums to cry about it shows you sir are the one lacking the real intelligence and the real lack of coordination that is needed to be a successfull member fo the PVP community.
I am sorry that you lack the ability to "play with the other kids in the sandbox". Maybe you PUG becasue it is the only true social interaction one such as yourself can muster up in an MMO and the whole idea of being a Premade makes you angry stemming from a deep seeded angst towards all the kids that never picked you in grade school for dodgeball, or maybe it comes form the time you were kicked off the "red rover red rover send eleven on over" varsity squad in 2nd grade, either way it shows that your true lack of understanding is leading you down a destructive path of crying on the forums which can only be cured by learning to play your class to the fullest ability and actually finding a team that can compliment your team,. I do feel sorry for you, Hopefully one day you see that much like the characters in Star trek world; communication, teamwork and real strategy are the keys to victory. Not spamming about how you do not want to fight against players that are better than you.
thank you for understanding that although I lack the mental capacity you envelope with your amazing witty insightful posts you will never be as good at playing a video game, or performing to themaximum potential as a human being.
May god have mercy on your soul.
this one wasn't a troll, but it was highly insightful (just dig past the flames).
translation: If you can't accept the fact that people group together for pvp then quit playing. additionally, if you lack the ability to get a premade going, then you should reconsider your actual skills. Finally, I'm sorry that you can't accept the fact that you are not "an amazing player"
protip: 90% of feds can't out dps a cruiser in 50 weapons power. seriously.
P.S. Why is it when one of these posts gets started there are always those who say "Quit whining!"?
Whining or not, the only way to bring attention to something you like or dislike is to say something about it.
Hell its the basic idea behind the first amendment. Theres no reason to debase anyone because their viewpoints dont align with yours.
It's not like the pre-mades want casual players in their match's ruining their fun.
Or just provide some kind of stiff penalty for dying in a battleground, like full looting rights. Things that will keep those casuals from even considering entering a battleground.
I hear people talk about how pvp is serious business, a sport where winning is everything. With hardcore penalties and a restricted queue you can limited entry to only the best.
Something stinks here ? isnt it the famous smelly elitism ? Keep in mind the "casuals" usually pay for the game keep going, not the "hardcores", which are always the (most loud) minority.
I would like to see separate queues, one for random pvp (aka you enter solo), and one for team play. That way everyone is happy, and you dont need to split the community into the "casuals" and smelly elitists.
Ah, not according to the people playing here in STO.
It's a team sport, get with the program or get out (just dont cancel or stop queuing solo because that will add to the down time).
Really, I only pug. I have not earned the right to play in their battlegrounds. I don't use vent and I don't have a team. I don't belong. Neither dose anyone like me.
Now, granted, I did cancel and I did stop queuing which dose not help them or STO but that's just secondary consideration, the important thing is playing the right way.
I was doing other things. I don't just live on a forum board.
I never stated I was "rocked" by anybody. Please use the exact quote where I stated that. Furthermore, it was a simplification of the scenario a lot of players face out there, who don't live in the game 24/7 or have not found a fleet that fits them yet. Or their fleet is a group of friends and they can't get together all the time. This is not that uncommon of a scenario. Of course, you have missed this point entirely and jump to conclusions so far from the mark you might as well be posting in another forum.
Since you know nothing about me, I will throw most of this paragraph away for what it really is... useless ASSumptions. Most MMO games that have pvp offer at least 2 tiers of game play for casuals and "hard core" players. I use quotes around "hard core" because a lot of "casual" players are just as dedicated but unwilling, or unable to get a group together constantly for pvp. You need to think about others a bit to see this. Try it.
No sir, it is I who feel sorry for your lack of reasoning. I love a good challenge. I have no problems with that. There is a difference though. You have yet to grasp that there is an inherent advantage to premades vs pugs. Some of us only have a few minutes to play sometimes, but want to. I have met some AWESOME players in pugs that just give me a run for my money. Good times.
You are lacking the empathy as well. You have filled every one of your posts with massive amounts of assumptions. You have not asked me to clarify anything. You have assumed everything, then answered your own thoughts, pretty much saying they were mine to start with.
Sorry you can't handle the idea of 2 tiers. If you are a premade player, then you should LOVE the idea. Would you rather not have more direct action against other fleets of premades? Or maybe you are not interested in a challenge?
You see, I want a challenge. Pug vs. Pug is a challenge..and random fun..because you never know what you are going to face. Premade vs Premade is a challenge, but for the reasons of coordination and tactics.
But a pug vs a premade is going to be a suicide run 99% of the time. That is not a challenge. That is the match equivalent of SNB + VM for 15 kills. It is not fun, it is not interesting.. and it does not make one want to queue up. Sure, some people want this kind of abuse. Cool, go for it.
Some just want to have fun.
Think of other people for a change man.
http://www.flowgo.com/funny/1263_poopy-pavarotti.html.
It wasa good estimate, although surprisingly innacurate ^^
tbh i think they actaully have a bit of a point.
In a pug v pug match (ok time of day dependant) they are likely to lose 99% of the time. I am a reasonable player and i have not needed a fleet or a premade to pvp successfully. i have bumped into some premade groups, and some full fleet premades trying to learn the ropes one called serenity took some flak from an TRIBBLE because they lost and decided to stop kvf. This was a shame and i was iin tells with them over it, i hope they get the experience they need working as a team (5 people starting to play together for the first time even from the same fleet are not an instant top premade) and return to kvf.
However, i see good players from the kdf pug regularly, players like santa, blackjack, isis, D'rek, Rattlesnake, maag, dork, co'hok (names off the top of my head and i have a bad memory for names so missed some, and spellings might be a bit off). Some of those are gettting better as time passes. If a pug meets one of two of those in a grp they are going to lose, and in all honesty they are going to meet one or two you those. Yet where are your good players? they are in the fleet premades and wont come out, ok not 100% true i have seen some a couple of those vaunted players and guess what they got hammered, they had no impact on the team performance and lost badly, so i guess they actually quit too, made a channel and only play as a full grp, vs other full grps. So now the federtation puggers have very few players to learn from through observation. It is one thing to read that bland how to pvp basic guide, it is another to watch some good pvp'ers in action and ask some questiosn about how they managed to do what they did.
Seems to me the problem for the federation is the cowards who need to hide in their premade vent communicated teams because they are frightened thehy might get hammered again when they venture out on their own.
Learn 2 play. Even premade groups have weaknesses.
Dalnar,
Perfectly reasonable suggestion, and there have been several this thread - with the exception of the OP whose entire point was to tell a story why he thinks premades are bad for the game.
I don't think STO will be making changes that separate premade and pugs just because other games have done it, at least not yet. The STO PvP community simply isn't big enough to divide into little groups right now. Adding queues for 1v1 on the other hand wouldn't divide the community.
Random Arenas for PUGS
Team Arenas for (wait for it) teams.
In all the times I've played with my premade we've never told a pug or premade "l2p noobs" or "spend more time playing" during a fight or right after we win a fight without cause. I have however, when playing against pugs and premades been called a cheater, exploiter, hacker, and so on because they don't understand that teamwork + skill knowledge + individual skill beats individual skill. I cant count how many times vs other players that I've used target subsystem shields 3 on an escort and then proceeded to destroy it in 5 seconds only to be called a hack cause according to him its impossible to do what i just did. Then when I explain how to do it, the guys says "oh cool i gota try that, thanks for the tip!" So right there I went from a cheater to a helpful player. This is why some premades, but not all, might say l2p. I'm sure there are your leet premades who think they're amazing and do like stomping noobs and then taunt them but don't generalize cause just as many bad things can be said about pugs.
As for the second point of the thread, having the ability to queue up against premade teams and fleets would be a welcomed feature. Right now though, premades don't have that luxuary of always knowing they'll fight against a premade so they have to join the regular queue in hopes that they do face off against one. Sometimes you get lucky and face a premade and sometimes you get a pug who thinks the premade is after them. Also, there is no feature in game that allows premades to set up matches or find each other. The closest thing to that is what akumarev has started with his premade pvp channel where he's trying to gather all the premades on there so premades can set up matches and each join an empty queue so they can have a fight. I understand that fighting against a premade in a pug can suck but its not the premades fault so dont hate on them. Its not like every premade is purposely seeking out pugs to pwn on. Also its not like they have the ability to always avoid pugs. Premades aren't going around seeing which map has a bunch of pugs they can pwn on simply because they don't have the ability.
As for your analogy of a pro football team VS a non pro team....I have coached football for over 7 seasons, it is completely ignorant for one team to think that the comp will be weak or that they are going to steam roll the other team due to all of them having the same name (fleet tag). As wrath said He has beaten fed premades before with a klingon PUG. So I guess by your logic he doesn't need to que up for a "PUG que" then because he is a good player that teamed up with other PUG klingons that were good as well?
Bottom line, if you want to get better then sitting in a PUG will NOT do that for you, if your goal is to PEWPEW with your lasers then go to the B'tran nebula and fly into an anomoly and kill some enemies there.....wait those must be a Premade group too because they are all on the same team too?
Your posts scream of a disgruntaled beaten and broken fed player that can not except that a game with pvp will eventually push players that want to get better into an organized format.
I am sorry that you can not find a fleet that fits you, if you spent half the time looking for a fleet that you spend whinign on the forums then you mgiht find one for you. Hell you might even be able to get a Premade yourself and get better at playing too.
Bottom line even with a PUG / premade que system there is NOTHING stopping a fleet from queing up going in to the PUG fights. The people that have contradicted you have done so in hopes that you will eventually see that in order to become the best player you can be it takes learning from others and WITH others.
I am done trying ot antagonize you with ****y little posts this is an effort from one "premade pvper" to a non pvper. If you want good PVP with a real level of comp then get a group of friends or in fleet, you do not need 5 we go in with 3-4 sometimes and get a PUG out of it. Learn to play well together and enjoy a higher more compitent level of PVP that unless you do this you will never be bale to achieve. BTW you can get free VOIP software if you really wanted to try using voice chat.
Lastly....I could take 4 of my fleetmates, we could all get off ventrilo and still beat the ever loving doodoo out of the enemy, why? becuase we learned to play with each other and we all know our roles on a team....and it is NOT DPS down the enemy.
Jarus I feel bad for you, your words of hurt and pain and disappointment (as I and many others percieve them to be. SO it doesn't matter how you wanted them to come across, they came across as a beaten man) show a player that has been beaten into submission to the point where he must comne on the forums and scream for Premades to no longer fight against him.
I my self have played in Pugs and Premade teams using vent. 9 times out of 10 the Premade will stomp the heck out of the PUG. I can't see how this fun for any one. I certainly do not get any statisfaction out of tearing a pug group up.
It gets old and boring. On the same token I have played in alot of pug groups. Often I am the one who will group feds up. I have been in pug groups that are slaughtered and sometimes a pug group that rules the field.
I use the PUG group pvp to learn more about my ship and other skills. I simply do not let a loss bother me especially when I know we are up against a Premade calling targets. Calling focus fire is effective and demoralizing. Often times I have been in premades that do exude a certain elite obnoxious attitude and I can see where this is a turn off to the casual player.
It would be nice if things could be set up better separating pugs from teams. But as some one pointed out the PVP community is pretty small at this point. I can see where it will be a while before this happens.
Until then...make the best of it. Don't let it get to you and when you can kick some butt. Also consider this...often times you will not see some one who normally works in premades alone with out his pack. In other words...they avoid being part of a pug....That is because that player tends to be weak with out back up. Consider the source. ;-)
Oh and... I prefer Pugs, unless it is a premade with guildies, because I get more challenge that way. I never know if the feds beside me will be good or bad. I like to find out. If they are bad, then I go solo and die trying to win hahaha.
o rly? is that why they removed team arenas because no one played it and the metagame got stagnant? oh, and what about team syncing to get premade groups into RA, ya that still happens. I did that all the time.
the only reason why the team stuff in gw exists is because there is a tangible reward for playing it that you can only get by playing in those arenas. In extension, there would have to be a tangible reward for teams playing in the "team arenas" that only they could get, like fame sticks, even better rewards, and stuff that the carebears would cry about for not being able to get because they can't get it without a premade.
Yes, there were ways to rig the random arenas, and yes most good groups went to GvG instead of TA. However, my point was that it makes sense to split the two types of play, because organized teams will almost always trash PUGs.
yea you may start solo, and encoutner premade, but as you Q , play the game, and know people, you end up meetign godo pvper, and start makign a lil group when you pvp, wich will make pug encounter very easier, and then you get to create you own 5 man with friend in pvp,
this is nto everything, not because you have a premade that you will be good
some terrible premade out there... soemtimes, i join alone with with a friend is a pug group vs a premade, and the premade got destroy becuase me / my friend made the whole damn diference
and damnit, me a a friend in a game... 2 vs 4, and we won 15-0, yea that how bad people can be
so you loss is abotu 2 things : you low skill level, and the fact that you dotn find anyone to play with
ist a MMO , wake up, no one will be equal with flower and love liek most n00b wish,
skill + number = win
As it is currently, the difference between the 1.5 secs it takes a lone pugger to target the best the opportunity and the near instantaneous called targeting of a team on a voice server is almost half the time it takes to burn a target down from full. So voiced premades don't just have an edge, they have a decisive advantage.
What some of the L2P crowd doesn't seem to understand is: I (and many others) do not want to spend my free time in a vent channel listening to some high-schooler who is failing remedial English tell me how to play the game all day long.
The idea of separate queues and skill-ratings is a good solution, but like others here I wonder if we have a big enough player pool for it to work without a lot of bad side effects.
Adding in-game voice comms would help too. If I could join a pug team and have some voice coordination it would help a lot. I could always mute a player if they are more annoying than helpful, and most importantly, I don't have to "social network" like some of you have suggested is necessary. If I have to use voice comms to be competitive in a game then I will, but they should be built-in and limited in scope to the current engagement (team, match, etc.) so I don't have to coordinate with people outside the limited time I have to play. I have seen it work in other games where casual players can get in on the coordination without having to join a fleet and try to make friends with a bunch of people who they may have nothing more in common with than playing this particular game.
The best solution imo is to fix the dps so that voice comms aren't necessary to be competitive. If the pace of the fights was a bit slower then that 1.5 sec advantage of called targeting wouldn't be such a big factor in determining the outcome.
The childish behavior in this thread from the players defending the superiority of their premade teams and their personal "skillz" is a perfect example of why I don't want to be forced to into fleet premades on vent to get a fun competitive game of pvp. Winning every match I ever played wouldn't be worth having to socialize with people like that. :rolleyes: