- Doing a spotlight mission only gives the 1440 Dil "Bonus", not the regular reward on top of it as it clearly states in the notes
- Unlocking Borg STF Doffs does nothing
Add more fun, not more grind. There is so much I'd want to do each day I log on, but grind takes away my time.
I want to explore the quadrant and seek out new life... No, I'd better go slave away mining.
I want to discuss Star Trek or roleplay my characters... No, I'd better be doing something to benefit myself or my fleet.
I want to PvP... No, I'd better grind reputation marks so I can get competitive gear.
I want to be creative and make new characters... No, my main characters will suffer if I don't maintain their grinds.
I want my fleet to enjoy working together and try different activities... No, it isn't efficient or fun to work together anymore.
I want to do so many things, but end up needing to focus on:
The Dilithium Grind - Needed for reputation gear, fleet gear, and fleet projects.
The Reputation Grind - Needed to remain competitive.
The Duty Officer Grind - Needed to remain competitive, and also provides a decent source of Energy Credits.
The Fleet Mark Grind - Needed to advance my fleet.
As the leader of a smaller fleet, I find many members are torn between working on personal progression and fleet progression. I have watched as the number of regular contributors to fleet holdings went from almost 100% to 50% to only a select few. My fleet members have limited time to play, and end up choosing to focus their efforts on improving their own characters instead of the fleet. Want to hold a fleet social event? Good luck. Everyone is too busy grinding their Omega or Dilithium. I thought the goal of MMOs was to build a game that improves a social experience, not provide a game where advancement occurs at the expense of the social experience.
I think Fleet progress should be similar to reputation progress.
No project takes longer than twenty hours, and upgrades take even less time.
There should be at least two XP-only projects for each fleet holding subsection, and neither of them should require dilithium.
Upgrade projects should also not require dilithium.
The only projects that should require dilithium should be the projects that lead to unlocks and requisitions, just like it is with the reputation system.
There needs to be ways to earn greater amounts of Fleet Marks in shorter times.
Small fleets need goals that are readily obtainable even if they're composed of mostly casual players. Individually, the reputation system does this, but as a fleet, the fleet holdings do not. Time-gate progression if you must, but do not make it harder to obtain the necessary inputs. If anything, make it easier. Changes like removing an easier source of Fleet Marks put small fleets one step closer to growing discouraged and breaking up. Folks want their T4/T5 fleet gear, and are willing to pay for it if we'd just have an easier road access. What we don't have is more time for more grind.
I feel the same way. I don't grind because I want to... I grind because the game demands it in order to move your character forward. I have several empty character slots that I don't even have time to play. Let alone play any type of story content.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Not flaming, just want to know if you are having fun or not? Your post makes it sound like your not, so curious, why not leave like so many others have?
I'm waiting for Age of Wulin myself and currently playing TOR,DDo and trying Tera tonight.
So, why stay m8?
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
I never really thought the foundry should have marks, but it was a good way for them to get marks to players that needed to earn them.
The S6 fleet content is so dated already, these things were designed to give us marks for tier 0 and tier 1 starbases. Now working on tier 5, the amount rewarded for a full 5 person team is so low that if you all spent a full 2 hours as an expert group during the event you'd maybe fill two of the daily missions up, but probably not, and you have 5 plus upgrades and specials to look at too. I'd imagine average players would probably not fill one up.
They would need to literally double the mark rewards, remove the artificial mark caps in the missions and raise the bottom end of marks earned by those not entirely successful.
Look at the missions
Fleet defense can earn 92 marks for a perfect score, its rare and it takes 20+ mins. With 20 people groups you are guaranteed to get a lot of bad players. The low end scores are literally 0. Bump the bottom to a minimium and raise the perfect to double.
Blockade is limited by the very slow timing of freighters coming into the system, 18 freighters is a typical max for about 54 marks in the event, sometimes you are lucky and get 21 but its very rare. A typical pug probably saves 6 from what I've seen, skilled players rarely get below 18. The reward increases with the more freighters you save so you need to get 18 for any value.. 6 gets you nearly nothing. The top end should be doubled, its on a 15 min timer, you just can't do it faster, the bottom end needs some kind of participation marks.
Fleet alert is crazy easy, it yields 20-25 marks in the event? Not even worth ones time, a pro team will take it out in 6 mins, pugs can struggle to beat it. Flat doubling it is fair, I really don't think anyone would play this bore fest if it weren't for accolades.
No win scenario is the most under performing mission ever. A typical pug is going to hit wave 4/5 and get rewarded very poorly. A pro team is going to hit wave 8 and barely get anything extra. These rewards need to scale to extreme amounts, reward extreme skill with a lot of marks.
Colony Invasion can't be failed, but its very buggy. The diplomats need a total rework because some just don't count now, and sometimes they count twice, and the bug that being shot or having them run out of range while you tag them makes them disappear and not count. Its a 6-7min mission for a good team but only rewards 25ish marks.. no accolades, not worth doing really.
Incursion is frustrating. You have artificially capped how well a team can do in round 1, it resets the saboteur count to a maximum, the best a team can do it 54 marks and its super rare. To get 5 people to cover each area in round 1 is impossible in a pug, it just won't ever happen, round 2 can be done by 2 people (even 1 really) and round 3 is a TRIBBLE shoot even with a good team. The borg and undine enemies are terribly out of character as well. Remove the cap and double the rewards, especially for rounds 2-3 since they give nearly nothing. The bugs still exist where you can make the mission unbeatable. Who would want to play this with all they have to put up with?
A better idea than a flat out reward boost is to boost the rewards with the tier of enemy you are fighting. This would of course lead to anger at constantly getting those tier 0 enemies over and over when people trying to get marks. It'd be nice if there was a group vote at the start of each mission on enemy type.
Excellent Feedback!
This is the kind of feedback that will make a difference, IMO.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Then they took it away until they made the IOR daily and it was permanent reward. Now they took it away again. Imagine if any other company you did business with kept doing this to you, say your bank or your insurance company? I'm sure you would be finding someone else to do business with.
Guess I'll be off the game for awhile until they fix the fix. I'm not going to play long foundry missions for dilithium and nobody cares about EC or XP... You can play other missions and sell your purple loot and get more EC. I played the foundry for FM and since that is gone I really have no need to play foundry missions at all. Dilithium is easily obtained through STF, PVP, and dailies that are shorter than foundry missions. I guess the story writers got what they wanted... nobody playing the foundry... I would love to know the numbers post patch of who will bother playing with the foundry solution this time. There were lots of suggestions posed in this thread that could have been some middle ground but once again Cryptic chooses the extreme until everyone rages and then dumbs it down again.
No then they said as of Now it will stay and not that FM in foundry were ever permanent.
Hang on a second there - Cryptic are the ones who set the boundaries/limits by which you can do the IOR mission in the FIRST place. If it's an 'exploit' to repeat it every 30 minutes because you 'can' then EVERY instance in the game, every Episode mission, every DoFF mission is also an exploit if you start something as soon as it is off cool down. Doing the 'Tour the Galaxy' mission 3 times within the hour it's available to maximize your EC then is also an exploit under that point of view.
Cryptic set those criteria, nobody else. If players are to be frowned upon for using the system as much as they were allowed to how are you not pointing your finger at Cryptic for designing such a system in the first place? That's like blaming the couch for stubbing your toe.
Therefore you can not blame the grinders for suposedly exploiting a system whose critera were set by the devs in the first place.
If it was that big a deal make it a daily again, but that won't happen.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
This is the kind of feedback that will make a difference, IMO.
A difference how?
Minority remember. Our opinions are but a drop in the ocean.
Forums make up 10%? Or was that a made up stat by Stahl?
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
Well I am sorry to see the foundry is now useless again. The remeval of fleet marks will cause fleets to no longer play the foundry for an alternative to same old grind for fleet marks. Our fleet over the last few months found many foundry missions that we enjoyed. A lot of the fun was from the exploration of the content contained in the foundry. To find things we all enjoyed doing together. Well I hope cryptic will add more missions that will provide fleet marks or raise the amount earned on the current missions. But I feel bad for all those who took the time create content that now will be very rarely played.
I would love to hear how other fleets feel about the loss of fleet marks from the foundry missions.
The only Foundry authors who contributed to this change in any way are those who used the Foundry to break the risk/reward curve. This change is about pure numbers.
You might want to stick to the "no division" schtick, justsayin'.
And, to be honest, thay are HEROES, not villains. They made the game playable again. Season7 was sobad I quit until Captain bobo, the royales, therumbles, the Grinder arena, and others made it palatableto log in again. I want to thank those Foundry Authors for being awesome and giving us all a good ride before the narfhammer killed the fun and thegame again.
were the cyptic fun sucker team we cant let you get fleet marks that easy. you must grind grind grind. Who in there right mind plays a game to have fun anyway. It should be a chore grind boreing head ache. thats what we specialize in now. bow down you stupid suckers and GRIND.
This might almost be forgivable if there were decent alternatives, but right now, small fleets are basically not viable if Cryptic continues on this path of cutting every means of obtaining fleet resources. The fleet mark rewards are an utter joke in most of the fleet missions, unless you happen to have a very good team and only play during the bonus hours. Of course, even during the bonus, more often than not you'll end up with at least one AFKer, or occasionally more. No amount of reporting ever seems to result in sanctions on those players, as I've even seen the same AFKing player on numerous occasions. Naturally, we can't publicly shame them here, or else WE'RE the ones who are penalized.
Personally, this won't affect me at all. My fleet actually likes running the fleet alerts, blockades, etc, and I have no problem getting marks from the cxp report turn-ins. Plus, I've been burned too many times with craptastic foundry missions that I don't even bother w/ the spotlight missions or (former) officer report daily.
That being said, I understand the small fleeter's concern their main, consistent source of fm's is being eliminated. If these rewards were removed in one place, they need to be added elsewhere. Otherwise, it looks like Cryptic is manipulating its customers, and that's something I have a real problem with.
Nowhere have I said that I want it to be my way, I just want the option to play it a certain way.
Now, I have no option. I pretty much have to play it their way; over long and over done for limited reward for my time investment.
The evidence showing the disent of Foundry authors has already been linked to in this thread.
Here's an analogy to help you along.
You are standing in queue for a epic concert.
You see some folks that are not interested in the queue, so they decide just to push through the crowd to the front.
A angry scuffle ensues, and the concert security decide to bar the entrance from any further admittance.
The group that pushed they way to the front, now blaming the rest of the queue, shout "If you had just let us in we wouldn't have a problem, now would we...."
this is for PWE good step to fckd up the game and they still try to do that ... this is not anymore Star Trek Online this is now Grind Trek Online ... too bad crYptic leave us to this unPWE
You know ... I do not see the new daily foundry mission in the mission journal at all and I just ran a Foundry mission to make sure you don't get it automatically.
No blind rage, ive stated my rather logical point of view already in previous posts, but poeple calling this an exploit are just dumb, it was an exploit because Cryptic made it one, all they had to do was kick the timer back to 24 hours and we would still be cool.
The fleet marks are the only reason I continued to do the foundry missions, now they have made it extremely hard to get them, since the PVE actions suck for mark output.
By your logic, the fleet actions are an exploit, something I can do every half hour to get marks... maybe they should nerf that too, oh wait, the output is such TRIBBLE that no one wants to play them.
I never mentioned the word exploit anywhere in my post. I merely stated that the reward had a detrimental effect on other sources of FM as they weren't popping as often due to people choosing to run Foundry missions over doing other PvE content for FM.
If you're going to accuse me of something, at least accuse me of the correct thing.
You know ... I do not see the new daily foundry mission in the mission journal at all and I just ran a Foundry mission to make sure you don't get it automatically.
Nothing for regular Foundry missions?
Did the mission qualify for rewards? I ran a mission on tribble and got 1440 dilithium, rewarded when the review box popped up.
i hope a huge amount of people would voice their complain at this step about the fleet marks
taking them away on top of earlier taking dili options out of foundry is making a lot of fleeties wanting to drop the game but first and foremost dropping kdf base progress to almost a complete halt
we kdf players by nature are more loner in our grind...less likely to go into pug teams
the foundry was the best source for FM ...you taking it away from what ever reasons you had is simply unacceptable
its enough that tier V projects needs almost 100 of a few doffs - a task immensly difficult to comply , but when it needs 12k fm per certain project making it impossible
thx to God PWE dont make houses my will fall crash or somethin worse in 2 days
It's okay, once NW is released, this game will become like CO.
NW will become their new Cash cow;)
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
You see some folks that are not interested in the queue, so they decide just to push through the crowd to the front.
A angry scuffle ensues, and the concert security decide to bar the entrance from any further admittance.
The group that pushed they way to the front, now blaming the rest of the queue, shout "If you had just let us in we wouldn't have a problem, now would we...."
Seem fair?
Extremely bad analogy. We aren't talking about people standing in line to get anything with real dollars.
This is about another way to get FM, and a reason to play Foundry.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
So if I'm understanding this right, no more Fleet Marks for Foundry missions.
Well thank you very much. For nothing.
I don't run fleet events. Rather it's difficult because I always run into lag. And they're a drain.
I liked the fix they came up with for the Foundry in season seven. I was able to run GOOD missions, like story missions, that were very fun, and I was also able to earn fleet marks and dilithium to contribute to my fleet. It was win win and eased the burden of the grind, and yes it is a burden.
I had just started into the Olympus series.
This is...a deeply disappointing development.
Raging isn't going to help and I'm still going to play. But this is a kick in the jewels to people who just aren't that thrilled with enforced team play being welded to advancement.
By untying the Foundry missions from the do three a day, and converting it into something where playing a meaningful mission gave a meaningful reward I thought that they had actually solved the problem. I was at an "it ain't broke don't fix it" point. Well I guess that's what I get for thinking.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Add more fun, not more grind. There is so much I'd want to do each day I log on, but grind takes away my time.
I want to explore the quadrant and seek out new life... No, I'd better go slave away mining.
I want to discuss Star Trek or roleplay my characters... No, I'd better be doing something to benefit myself or my fleet.
I want to PvP... No, I'd better grind reputation marks so I can get competitive gear.
I want to be creative and make new characters... No, my main characters will suffer if I don't maintain their grinds.
I want my fleet to enjoy working together and try different activities... No, it isn't efficient or fun to work together anymore.
I want to do so many things, but end up needing to focus on:
The Dilithium Grind - Needed for reputation gear, fleet gear, and fleet projects.
The Reputation Grind - Needed to remain competitive.
The Duty Officer Grind - Needed to remain competitive, and also provides a decent source of Energy Credits.
The Fleet Mark Grind - Needed to advance my fleet.
As the leader of a smaller fleet, I find many members are torn between working on personal progression and fleet progression. I have watched as the number of regular contributors to fleet holdings went from almost 100% to 50% to only a select few. My fleet members have limited time to play, and end up choosing to focus their efforts on improving their own characters instead of the fleet. Want to hold a fleet social event? Good luck. Everyone is too busy grinding their Omega or Dilithium. I thought the goal of MMOs was to build a game that improves a social experience, not provide a game where advancement occurs at the expense of the social experience.
I think Fleet progress should be similar to reputation progress.
No project takes longer than twenty hours, and upgrades take even less time.
There should be at least two XP-only projects for each fleet holding subsection, and neither of them should require dilithium.
Upgrade projects should also not require dilithium.
The only projects that should require dilithium should be the projects that lead to unlocks and requisitions, just like it is with the reputation system.
There needs to be ways to earn greater amounts of Fleet Marks in shorter times.
Small fleets need goals that are readily obtainable even if they're composed of mostly casual players. Individually, the reputation system does this, but as a fleet, the fleet holdings do not. Time-gate progression if you must, but do not make it harder to obtain the necessary inputs. If anything, make it easier. Changes like removing an easier source of Fleet Marks put small fleets one step closer to growing discouraged and breaking up. Folks want their T4/T5 fleet gear, and are willing to pay for it if we'd just have an easier road access. What we don't have is more time for more grind.
You see some folks that are not interested in the queue, so they decide just to push through the crowd to the front.
A angry scuffle ensues, and the concert security decide to bar the entrance from any further admittance.
The group that pushed they way to the front, now blaming the rest of the queue, shout "If you had just let us in we wouldn't have a problem, now would we...."
Seem fair?
if you're saying what I think you're saying, wouldn't a more apt analogy have the concert promoters not only condoning the queue jumpers initially, but actually roping off a path to help them forward?
if you're saying what I think you're saying, wouldn't a more apt analogy have the concert promoters not only condoning the queue jumpers initially, but actually roping off a path to help them forward?
IMO, no. They just didn't enforce "no queue jumping", but let those who did get in first. Now they are finally getting around to doing so, and people are unhappy.
But rather than blame the owners of the venue, the bouncers, etc, they're turning to the weedy little guy at the front of the line who was feebly protesting and blaming him. Because he's clearly the one at fault, not the owners and their goon squad. (Even if he's really not, because who do you think you have a better chance of beating in a fight?)
if you're saying what I think you're saying, wouldn't a more apt analogy have the concert promoters not only condoning the queue jumpers initially, but actually roping off a path to help them forward?
Comments
You can bet their re-wording that right now..XD
I feel the same way. I don't grind because I want to... I grind because the game demands it in order to move your character forward. I have several empty character slots that I don't even have time to play. Let alone play any type of story content.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
I don't play. Why do you?
Not flaming, just want to know if you are having fun or not? Your post makes it sound like your not, so curious, why not leave like so many others have?
I'm waiting for Age of Wulin myself and currently playing TOR,DDo and trying Tera tonight.
So, why stay m8?
Excellent Feedback!
This is the kind of feedback that will make a difference, IMO.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
No then they said as of Now it will stay and not that FM in foundry were ever permanent.
Therefore you can not blame the grinders for suposedly exploiting a system whose critera were set by the devs in the first place.
If it was that big a deal make it a daily again, but that won't happen.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
A difference how?
Minority remember. Our opinions are but a drop in the ocean.
Forums make up 10%? Or was that a made up stat by Stahl?
I would love to hear how other fleets feel about the loss of fleet marks from the foundry missions.
You might want to stick to the "no division" schtick, justsayin'.
And, to be honest, thay are HEROES, not villains. They made the game playable again. Season7 was sobad I quit until Captain bobo, the royales, therumbles, the Grinder arena, and others made it palatableto log in again. I want to thank those Foundry Authors for being awesome and giving us all a good ride before the narfhammer killed the fun and thegame again.
That being said, I understand the small fleeter's concern their main, consistent source of fm's is being eliminated. If these rewards were removed in one place, they need to be added elsewhere. Otherwise, it looks like Cryptic is manipulating its customers, and that's something I have a real problem with.
Here's an analogy to help you along.
You are standing in queue for a epic concert.
You see some folks that are not interested in the queue, so they decide just to push through the crowd to the front.
A angry scuffle ensues, and the concert security decide to bar the entrance from any further admittance.
The group that pushed they way to the front, now blaming the rest of the queue, shout "If you had just let us in we wouldn't have a problem, now would we...."
Seem fair?
Nothing for regular Foundry missions?
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
I never mentioned the word exploit anywhere in my post. I merely stated that the reward had a detrimental effect on other sources of FM as they weren't popping as often due to people choosing to run Foundry missions over doing other PvE content for FM.
If you're going to accuse me of something, at least accuse me of the correct thing.
Did the mission qualify for rewards? I ran a mission on tribble and got 1440 dilithium, rewarded when the review box popped up.
taking them away on top of earlier taking dili options out of foundry is making a lot of fleeties wanting to drop the game but first and foremost dropping kdf base progress to almost a complete halt
we kdf players by nature are more loner in our grind...less likely to go into pug teams
the foundry was the best source for FM ...you taking it away from what ever reasons you had is simply unacceptable
its enough that tier V projects needs almost 100 of a few doffs - a task immensly difficult to comply , but when it needs 12k fm per certain project making it impossible
plz take it back
It's okay, once NW is released, this game will become like CO.
NW will become their new Cash cow;)
Extremely bad analogy. We aren't talking about people standing in line to get anything with real dollars.
This is about another way to get FM, and a reason to play Foundry.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Well thank you very much. For nothing.
I don't run fleet events. Rather it's difficult because I always run into lag. And they're a drain.
I liked the fix they came up with for the Foundry in season seven. I was able to run GOOD missions, like story missions, that were very fun, and I was also able to earn fleet marks and dilithium to contribute to my fleet. It was win win and eased the burden of the grind, and yes it is a burden.
I had just started into the Olympus series.
This is...a deeply disappointing development.
Raging isn't going to help and I'm still going to play. But this is a kick in the jewels to people who just aren't that thrilled with enforced team play being welded to advancement.
By untying the Foundry missions from the do three a day, and converting it into something where playing a meaningful mission gave a meaningful reward I thought that they had actually solved the problem. I was at an "it ain't broke don't fix it" point. Well I guess that's what I get for thinking.
Yep! Couldn't have said this better!
if you're saying what I think you're saying, wouldn't a more apt analogy have the concert promoters not only condoning the queue jumpers initially, but actually roping off a path to help them forward?
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost
Tribble being the operative word. We all know how Thursday patchings go around here...
Didn't pay me and I ran the only Spotlight I saw in the list.
Also, the Borg Doffs really are borked.
One step forward, two steps back...
IMO, no. They just didn't enforce "no queue jumping", but let those who did get in first. Now they are finally getting around to doing so, and people are unhappy.
But rather than blame the owners of the venue, the bouncers, etc, they're turning to the weedy little guy at the front of the line who was feebly protesting and blaming him. Because he's clearly the one at fault, not the owners and their goon squad. (Even if he's really not, because who do you think you have a better chance of beating in a fight?)
Wait...I can't even talk about [pre-redacted]?
No review box popped up. Does that mean you can't repeat em?
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)