The Nebula has no impulse engines in canon either. Why not remove them from the current Steamrunner model if you don't want to move them into the saucer section? That would be canon at least.
There in lays the problem, unlike the Nebula you never get to see any detailed shots of the Steamrunner, so as to what's cannon for this ship is very much up for speculation. As I detailed before the texture model of the Steamrunner shows a strong case for the impulse engines being on the saucer section and no where near the pylons. There in again it is speculation but I think I'm safe in saying that 95% (probably more) of those of us who are big fans of the Steamrunner and using it in game all agree, the impulse engines should be on the saucer section.
This is true, and a rationalization had been given for it too. It might also be why when Infinite Space was being made (with help from Mike Okuda) they also didn't put any visible impulse engine ports on the Steamrunner: STIS Steamrunner-class.
That rationalization might very well work however you never get a clear enough shot of the aft end of the ship to tell if the impulse engines are visible/hidden or their location, if they are visible then theirs compelling evidence that supports the impulse engines being located on the saucer section. Since in STO the artists are going with them being visible (as a majority believe they are) then they should be located on the saucer section.
I have to agree on the placement of the impulse engines. If the ship looked like this I would actually use it. I realize how silly that sounds, but it how I am
Not to harp on stuff and apologies if it was mentioned but, Are the bussard collectors supposed to align with the engine nacelles? To me it always looks like the scoops should be an extension of the nacelle poking through the saucer, however it seems like they tilt at different angles.
That last part doesn't bug me as much as the impulse engine thing though, I can wrap my head around the fact that Starfleet engineers did some fancy plumbing to "Make it Go".
I have to agree on the placement of the impulse engines. If the ship looked like this I would actually use it. I realize how silly that sounds, but it how I am
Not to harp on stuff and apologies if it was mentioned but, Are the bussard collectors supposed to align with the engine nacelles? To me it always looks like the scoops should be an extension of the nacelle poking through the saucer, however it seems like they tilt at different angles.
That last part doesn't bug me as much as the impulse engine thing though, I can wrap my head around the fact that Starfleet engineers did some fancy plumbing to "Make it Go".
I believe they are. It's another lousy ship modeling by Cryptic.
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Doesn't mean it can't be called the 25th century design and were moved to the pylons for some technical reasons. Besides, its better than nothing.
It still doesn't follow the traditional Starfleet ship-building design process - which, by the way, the Odyssey is based off of, so 25th century design or not, Cryptic still follows the standard set by the TV shows and movies.
Anyways, so when is Cryptic going to fix this ship? And the Galaxy? And the Sovereign? And...
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Yes, it does. The impulse engines, according to a source which I have forgotten (years and years ago), are in the base of the central pylon supporting the mission pod. The VFX people on DS9 forgot to include the exhaust trails from this single impulse engine.
After all, you can't have the impulse engines coming from a plugged vent.
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1.
There is no official canon reference to where the impulse engines are. Both of the images you linked are not canon.
On top of that, even if we did put the impulse engines on the back of the saucer, where those images point to, the impulse engines would exhaust directly into the rear pylons -- engineering so awful it's hard to let it fly. In any case, we never get a close enough shot of the canon version of the ship (as intended by the original creators) to get a good idea of where, exactly, they should be.
These 2 stills from First Contact clearly show the impulse engines don't belong on the pylons.
Though they don't appear to be on the saucer either
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The VFX people on DS9 forgot to include the exhaust trails from this single impulse engine.
After all, you can't have the impulse engines coming from a plugged vent.
You mean TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Since all versions of the Nebula-class; the original "Phoenix" model, the updated "Sutherland" model, and the CGI Galaxy-class based "Bonchune" model all omit the impulse grille.
It seems highly suspicious that all three variants don't have the normal impulse glow, especially since the CGI version was built out of the CGI Galaxy-class made for Generations. It seems really odd that they forgot it each time a new Nebula model was produced.
Star Trek staff illustrator and technical consultant Rick Sternbach, who refined the second Nebula-class shooting model, mentioned over on Doug Drexler's blog a possible reason for the lack of visible impulse ports:
"One of the rationalizations I imagined ages ago for having no obvious impulse grilles involved capturing and compressing the impulse fusion reaction exhaust and later releasing it from special non-propulsive ports. If the Nebula class was employed in a stealthy surveillance mode, it would be smart to minimize all overboard emissions. Since most all "modern" impulse engines involve little or no pure rocket thrust, but more of a sub-warp drive, one could say that the familiar orange Starfleet glowy exhausts could be modified or eliminated."
These 2 stills from First Contact clearly show the impulse engines don't belong on the pylons.
Though they don't appear to be on the saucer either
Good find indeed, though to be honest those shots include almost no lighting which would have made the impulse engines visible, the lighting that is there for any length of time is off the warp nacelles for less the a second, otherwise theirs no lighting to it at all, no strobes, no fight/docking lights, no registry lighting even in that second shot theirs no lighting on even the nacelles. We were just not meant to be able to get a good enough shot to tell.
You mean TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Since all versions of the Nebula-class; the original "Phoenix" model, the updated "Sutherland" model, and the CGI Galaxy-class based "Bonchune" model all omit the impulse grille.
It seems highly suspicious that all three variants don't have the normal impulse glow, especially since the CGI version was built out of the CGI Galaxy-class made for Generations. It seems really odd that they forgot it each time a new Nebula model was produced.
Star Trek staff illustrator and technical consultant Rick Sternbach, who refined the second Nebula-class shooting model, mentioned over on Doug Drexler's blog a possible reason for the lack of visible impulse ports:
Yes, I've seen that very post before you posted it. That begs the question, why doesn't the Galaxy-class saucer impulse engines do the same thing - cover the exhaust vents? Or the other newer ships produced during and after the Nebula-class, why don't they have their own "stealth mode"? Surely it would benefit the Defiant-class, of all ships.
It just doesn't follow canon. Rather than question ALL the ships after the Nebula-class "no-vents" configuration, we should just place the Nebula in its own category of "Whoops! The VFX people forgot!".
Anyways, like kirahitomi said, this thread is about the Steamrunner, not the Nebula-class. Back to the Steamrunner...
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Good find indeed, though to be honest those shots include almost no lighting which would have made the impulse engines visible, the lighting that is there for any length of time is off the warp nacelles for less the a second, otherwise theirs no lighting to it at all, no strobes, no fight/docking lights, no registry lighting even in that second shot theirs no lighting on even the nacelles. We were just not meant to be able to get a good enough shot to tell.
I get what you're saying, but I still think if the ship was meant to have impulse engines on the pylons they would have been included in that scene since they took the time to add blue nacelle lighting.
By not having it on the pylons I would argue that they are indeed supposed to be on the saucer and the special effects guys figured no one will notice some red on the saucer that is partially blocked by these pylons. I'm reaching now, aren't I?
I get what you're saying, but I still think if the ship was meant to have impulse engines on the pylons they would have been included in that scene since they took the time to add blue nacelle lighting.
By not having it on the pylons I would argue that they are indeed supposed to be on the saucer and the special effects guys figured no one will notice some red on the saucer that is partially blocked by these pylons. I'm reaching now, aren't I?
Nope, that makes sense. VFX people won't stuff the scene with as much detail as they possibly could. They probably didn't need to add too much detail to the Steamrunner anyways, it wasn't meant for looking up close.
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I get what you're saying, but I still think if the ship was meant to have impulse engines on the pylons they would have been included in that scene since they took the time to add blue nacelle lighting.
By not having it on the pylons I would argue that they are indeed supposed to be on the saucer and the special effects guys figured no one will notice some red on the saucer that is partially blocked by these pylons. I'm reaching now, aren't I?
Nope, that makes sense. VFX people won't stuff the scene with as much detail as they possibly could. They probably didn't need to add too much detail to the Steamrunner anyways, it wasn't meant for looking up close.
I agree with stardestroyer001, it makes perfect sense, why bother putting in details that aren't going to be seen or are going to be vastly obscured. I mean after all the VFX at the time of this movie weren't created with the same super-high fidelity that modern HD movies are, they would have been much more limited on how much they could cram on the screen at once.
What I don't get is the fact the Sabre class has no impule engines on the model either but they went with the Star Trek the Magazine layout of having them on the back of the saucer.
But with the Steamrunner they ignored both the Star Trek the Magazine and the Star Trek Fact Files plans (both were paramount licenced) and all of the licenced games and instead put it on an area which hardly any other ship has.
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What I don't get is the fact the Sabre class has no impule engines on the model either but they went with the Star Trek the Magazine layout of having them on the back of the saucer.
But with the Steamrunner they ignored both the Star Trek the Magazine and the Star Trek Fact Files plans (both were paramount licenced) and all of the licenced games and instead put it on an area which hardly any other ship has.
Hence one of the many reasons we're trying so hard to get the Steamrunner fixed.
What I don't get is the fact the Sabre class has no impule engines on the model either but they went with the Star Trek the Magazine layout of having them on the back of the saucer.
But with the Steamrunner they ignored both the Star Trek the Magazine and the Star Trek Fact Files plans (both were paramount licenced) and all of the licenced games and instead put it on an area which hardly any other ship has.
The Saber-class does have glowing impulse engines, though that is probably because the model was remade when used for the later seasons of DS9. You can see them in aft view image of the ship on this page: Saber-class CGI.
The Saber-class does have glowing impulse engines, though that is probably because the model was remade when used for the later seasons of DS9. You can see them in aft view image of the ship on this page: Saber-class CGI.
Interesting. I always recalled the Saber having rear impulse engines in that location.
But anyways, back to the Steamrunner. It should have the impulse engines in those square-ish notches in the back of the saucer. Dunno why they frakked it up though.
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I would laugh if they used them to turn it into a carrier.
I wouldn't laugh... they've butchered the Akira in just this way. What's next, every ship with a shuttlebay launching fighters?
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Yes, but canonically, the Akira never launched fighters, nor was there mention of the capability to do so anyways.
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DS9 battles video, it starts at a Steamrunner flying by with no impulse engines on the back. Happens again around 11:20.
Nice but it also still didn't have impulse on the hull as well. So technically we can consider it works very similar to the Nebula. It even has a close up at 12:00 with two of them in the same shot.
Nice but it also still didn't have impulse on the hull as well. So technically we can consider it works very similar to the Nebula. It even has a close up at 12:00 with two of them in the same shot.
Okay, stop with the Nebula. We all know you like the ship, but this is a thread about the Steamrunner.
(You have the right to shut me up if I start ranting about the Galaxy-class in other non-Galaxy-class threads )
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I'm going off about the Nebula because its the only other vessel I know of that doesn't have visible impulse engines. In any other case, the Steamrunner shouldn't have any impulse engines to begin with if we go by on screen footage.
How about the Norway class? No visible engines there either.
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Comments
I guess the their vision of 25th century starships are ones without visible impulse engines.
There in lays the problem, unlike the Nebula you never get to see any detailed shots of the Steamrunner, so as to what's cannon for this ship is very much up for speculation. As I detailed before the texture model of the Steamrunner shows a strong case for the impulse engines being on the saucer section and no where near the pylons. There in again it is speculation but I think I'm safe in saying that 95% (probably more) of those of us who are big fans of the Steamrunner and using it in game all agree, the impulse engines should be on the saucer section.
That rationalization might very well work however you never get a clear enough shot of the aft end of the ship to tell if the impulse engines are visible/hidden or their location, if they are visible then theirs compelling evidence that supports the impulse engines being located on the saucer section. Since in STO the artists are going with them being visible (as a majority believe they are) then they should be located on the saucer section.
I have to agree on the placement of the impulse engines. If the ship looked like this I would actually use it. I realize how silly that sounds, but it how I am
Not to harp on stuff and apologies if it was mentioned but, Are the bussard collectors supposed to align with the engine nacelles? To me it always looks like the scoops should be an extension of the nacelle poking through the saucer, however it seems like they tilt at different angles.
That last part doesn't bug me as much as the impulse engine thing though, I can wrap my head around the fact that Starfleet engineers did some fancy plumbing to "Make it Go".
I believe they are. It's another lousy ship modeling by Cryptic.
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It still doesn't follow the traditional Starfleet ship-building design process - which, by the way, the Odyssey is based off of, so 25th century design or not, Cryptic still follows the standard set by the TV shows and movies.
Anyways, so when is Cryptic going to fix this ship? And the Galaxy? And the Sovereign? And...
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After all, you can't have the impulse engines coming from a plugged vent.
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These 2 stills from First Contact clearly show the impulse engines don't belong on the pylons.
Though they don't appear to be on the saucer either
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You mean TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Since all versions of the Nebula-class; the original "Phoenix" model, the updated "Sutherland" model, and the CGI Galaxy-class based "Bonchune" model all omit the impulse grille.
It seems highly suspicious that all three variants don't have the normal impulse glow, especially since the CGI version was built out of the CGI Galaxy-class made for Generations. It seems really odd that they forgot it each time a new Nebula model was produced.
Star Trek staff illustrator and technical consultant Rick Sternbach, who refined the second Nebula-class shooting model, mentioned over on Doug Drexler's blog a possible reason for the lack of visible impulse ports:
Source: http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/06/23/nebula-class/#comment-14934
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
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Good find indeed, though to be honest those shots include almost no lighting which would have made the impulse engines visible, the lighting that is there for any length of time is off the warp nacelles for less the a second, otherwise theirs no lighting to it at all, no strobes, no fight/docking lights, no registry lighting even in that second shot theirs no lighting on even the nacelles. We were just not meant to be able to get a good enough shot to tell.
Guys seriously this is about the Steamrunner, please take the Nebula debate to its own thread if you'd like to continue discussing it.
Yes, I've seen that very post before you posted it. That begs the question, why doesn't the Galaxy-class saucer impulse engines do the same thing - cover the exhaust vents? Or the other newer ships produced during and after the Nebula-class, why don't they have their own "stealth mode"? Surely it would benefit the Defiant-class, of all ships.
It just doesn't follow canon. Rather than question ALL the ships after the Nebula-class "no-vents" configuration, we should just place the Nebula in its own category of "Whoops! The VFX people forgot!".
Anyways, like kirahitomi said, this thread is about the Steamrunner, not the Nebula-class. Back to the Steamrunner...
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I get what you're saying, but I still think if the ship was meant to have impulse engines on the pylons they would have been included in that scene since they took the time to add blue nacelle lighting.
By not having it on the pylons I would argue that they are indeed supposed to be on the saucer and the special effects guys figured no one will notice some red on the saucer that is partially blocked by these pylons. I'm reaching now, aren't I?
Nope, that makes sense. VFX people won't stuff the scene with as much detail as they possibly could. They probably didn't need to add too much detail to the Steamrunner anyways, it wasn't meant for looking up close.
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I agree with stardestroyer001, it makes perfect sense, why bother putting in details that aren't going to be seen or are going to be vastly obscured. I mean after all the VFX at the time of this movie weren't created with the same super-high fidelity that modern HD movies are, they would have been much more limited on how much they could cram on the screen at once.
But with the Steamrunner they ignored both the Star Trek the Magazine and the Star Trek Fact Files plans (both were paramount licenced) and all of the licenced games and instead put it on an area which hardly any other ship has.
"I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
Hence one of the many reasons we're trying so hard to get the Steamrunner fixed.
The Saber-class does have glowing impulse engines, though that is probably because the model was remade when used for the later seasons of DS9. You can see them in aft view image of the ship on this page: Saber-class CGI.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Interesting. I always recalled the Saber having rear impulse engines in that location.
But anyways, back to the Steamrunner. It should have the impulse engines in those square-ish notches in the back of the saucer. Dunno why they frakked it up though.
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Oh No thank you, that would be a horrible thing to do to the Steamrunner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gM-S1NU7Qw0#t=463s
DS9 battles video, it starts at a Steamrunner flying by with no impulse engines on the back. Happens again around 11:20.
I wouldn't laugh... they've butchered the Akira in just this way. What's next, every ship with a shuttlebay launching fighters?
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hate to be the geeky guy but the Akira was supposed to be a carrier.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Akira_class
scroll down to design
Yes, but canonically, the Akira never launched fighters, nor was there mention of the capability to do so anyways.
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Nice but it also still didn't have impulse on the hull as well. So technically we can consider it works very similar to the Nebula. It even has a close up at 12:00 with two of them in the same shot.
Okay, stop with the Nebula. We all know you like the ship, but this is a thread about the Steamrunner.
(You have the right to shut me up if I start ranting about the Galaxy-class in other non-Galaxy-class threads
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