test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
A NOT so Quick note from NOVA CORE
tripwire690
Member Posts: 178 Arc User
Hi. It's nice to see all of you again. I was going to respond to the post made by Devoras but I felt I should make a completely seperate post all together. As he stirred up over 10 pages of responses.
I am most widely known as Captain Tripwire or Captain Glitch. Most recently I fly around as Captain Shift. I left the game when 7th Core became Nova Core but I am back now as one of 5 acting admirals for the fleet. Maybe some of you might disagree but I just feel at this point with the new grinds in place if you don't play and by some chance pvp is saved next year then it will be hard to catch up with where pvp will be once players have maxed out their fleet starbases and reputation systems.
In any case in the TSI thread by Devoras there was alot of talk about pay-to-win and "cheese" and what was cheese and is cheese etc. Sometimes there is also alot of talk about how cheesy Nova Core is or TSI or TRIBBLE. etc. and I feel the community really doesn't seem to be seeing the picture at large here.
Firstly, if you have a console on your ship. ONE console. YOU are pay-to-win. It is irrelevant if it is ablative or cloak on the defiant. It is a console that you payed for by buying a ship off of the c-store or zen-store or lobi-store, or lock box. Running one kind of console over another kind of console.... or one less console than the next captain or the fact that one guy can spam his console but you can't DOES NOT make you any better than anyone else with a console on their ship.
Secondly, the excuses made by any player to run whats broken to make the devs listen is absolutely ignorant. I agree with what some others have already said. And that is the only good to come out of this philosophy is driving more players out of pvp. And that price is too high given the circumstances of pvp in STO for the past three years to pay for getting the dev team to "listen". After all it is not their deaf ears that is the cause of pvp being the way it is. It is their lack of action towards any real solution to fix all of this that has lead us where we are right now. Cryptic has admitted to this. And what good is this kind of thinking if there aren't enough or even worse no players left to queue up once the problem has been corrected?
Thirdly there is a lot of slamming this fleet or that fleet going around. I will tell you from experience that TSI, and other very recognizable fleets have used faw with 100% accuracy, mines with ridiculous replication rates, point defense, torpedo spread or whatever was broken when it was "broken" or not working as intended since I have been playing. Maybe not their entire fleet, maybe not their entire fleet at the same time but certainly they have. But I know how good TSI is as a fleet as well as a pvp premade team. I like their players. I like their fleet. I consider the members that know me my friends. And I will tell you they have always had grade A players capable of beating other fleets without whatever the community deems is "cheese" or anything associated with the stinky stuff in the game. They have taught me alot. They continue to do so.
I say all this because what I don't think many (not all) in this community seem to understand is that we are fighting each other. It is not our fault things are not as balanced as we would like them to be. It is not our fault that Cryptic seems to care more about selling ships than making sure the ships they sell are slightly overpowered for pvE but BALANCED for pvp. I don't think whatever dev said that OP ships were fun was incorrect when it comes to players fighting npc's. But if that dev thinks for a second its fun when fighting other players..... well I don't think they should have their job right now.
I am not going to slam anyone for running what they want. And I am certainly not going to blame a ship or a console on me being blown up or my team losing in pvp. I agree with Mai Kai and I stand with him when it comes to members in Nova Core using consoles. Who am I or Mai Kai or YOU to tell someone who spent their hard earned money on a ship or a console not to use it? If we are talking tournaments then it is understood to be the exception to the rule. Tournament rules are in place to keep them fun and competetive without an unfair advantage for one side or the other. But in the public queue? It is not our fault that cryptic doesn't make a tournament queue for premade teams or add autobalancing to their public queues so pugs don't get rolled by premades all day driving them away from what makes pvp so awesome.
So with all that said I would appreciate it if we stop attacking each other. I don't appreciate my fleet being spoken so ill of when I don't speak ill of other fleets. This last comment is specifically directed at BROKEN from Risa Squadron who has no respect for anyone and who seems to find every oppurtunity to put down my players and my fleet. I assure you Broken, NONE of my characters needs a console to rip your best ship in half. I don't like seeing my friends in TSI being bashed on when they have been a pillar of this community since I started playing. We need to all respect each other and the state that this game is currently in. We need to settle on the reality that it is what it is right now and exhibit good sportsmanship and make the best of it until it gets better. And we cannot forget that at the end of the day this is about the pew pew and the fact that it is fun. So pew pew in fun and not in malice.
More funsauce, Eat baddies.
-Captain Tripwire-
p.s. If anyone in Nova Core is out of line in a match or not being an upstanding member of this pvp community mail @u.s.s.bloodmage or any of the other 4 admirals in charge. We want the best for STO pvp. And we wish all the pvp fleets the best.
I am most widely known as Captain Tripwire or Captain Glitch. Most recently I fly around as Captain Shift. I left the game when 7th Core became Nova Core but I am back now as one of 5 acting admirals for the fleet. Maybe some of you might disagree but I just feel at this point with the new grinds in place if you don't play and by some chance pvp is saved next year then it will be hard to catch up with where pvp will be once players have maxed out their fleet starbases and reputation systems.
In any case in the TSI thread by Devoras there was alot of talk about pay-to-win and "cheese" and what was cheese and is cheese etc. Sometimes there is also alot of talk about how cheesy Nova Core is or TSI or TRIBBLE. etc. and I feel the community really doesn't seem to be seeing the picture at large here.
Firstly, if you have a console on your ship. ONE console. YOU are pay-to-win. It is irrelevant if it is ablative or cloak on the defiant. It is a console that you payed for by buying a ship off of the c-store or zen-store or lobi-store, or lock box. Running one kind of console over another kind of console.... or one less console than the next captain or the fact that one guy can spam his console but you can't DOES NOT make you any better than anyone else with a console on their ship.
Secondly, the excuses made by any player to run whats broken to make the devs listen is absolutely ignorant. I agree with what some others have already said. And that is the only good to come out of this philosophy is driving more players out of pvp. And that price is too high given the circumstances of pvp in STO for the past three years to pay for getting the dev team to "listen". After all it is not their deaf ears that is the cause of pvp being the way it is. It is their lack of action towards any real solution to fix all of this that has lead us where we are right now. Cryptic has admitted to this. And what good is this kind of thinking if there aren't enough or even worse no players left to queue up once the problem has been corrected?
Thirdly there is a lot of slamming this fleet or that fleet going around. I will tell you from experience that TSI, and other very recognizable fleets have used faw with 100% accuracy, mines with ridiculous replication rates, point defense, torpedo spread or whatever was broken when it was "broken" or not working as intended since I have been playing. Maybe not their entire fleet, maybe not their entire fleet at the same time but certainly they have. But I know how good TSI is as a fleet as well as a pvp premade team. I like their players. I like their fleet. I consider the members that know me my friends. And I will tell you they have always had grade A players capable of beating other fleets without whatever the community deems is "cheese" or anything associated with the stinky stuff in the game. They have taught me alot. They continue to do so.
I say all this because what I don't think many (not all) in this community seem to understand is that we are fighting each other. It is not our fault things are not as balanced as we would like them to be. It is not our fault that Cryptic seems to care more about selling ships than making sure the ships they sell are slightly overpowered for pvE but BALANCED for pvp. I don't think whatever dev said that OP ships were fun was incorrect when it comes to players fighting npc's. But if that dev thinks for a second its fun when fighting other players..... well I don't think they should have their job right now.
I am not going to slam anyone for running what they want. And I am certainly not going to blame a ship or a console on me being blown up or my team losing in pvp. I agree with Mai Kai and I stand with him when it comes to members in Nova Core using consoles. Who am I or Mai Kai or YOU to tell someone who spent their hard earned money on a ship or a console not to use it? If we are talking tournaments then it is understood to be the exception to the rule. Tournament rules are in place to keep them fun and competetive without an unfair advantage for one side or the other. But in the public queue? It is not our fault that cryptic doesn't make a tournament queue for premade teams or add autobalancing to their public queues so pugs don't get rolled by premades all day driving them away from what makes pvp so awesome.
So with all that said I would appreciate it if we stop attacking each other. I don't appreciate my fleet being spoken so ill of when I don't speak ill of other fleets. This last comment is specifically directed at BROKEN from Risa Squadron who has no respect for anyone and who seems to find every oppurtunity to put down my players and my fleet. I assure you Broken, NONE of my characters needs a console to rip your best ship in half. I don't like seeing my friends in TSI being bashed on when they have been a pillar of this community since I started playing. We need to all respect each other and the state that this game is currently in. We need to settle on the reality that it is what it is right now and exhibit good sportsmanship and make the best of it until it gets better. And we cannot forget that at the end of the day this is about the pew pew and the fact that it is fun. So pew pew in fun and not in malice.
More funsauce, Eat baddies.
-Captain Tripwire-
p.s. If anyone in Nova Core is out of line in a match or not being an upstanding member of this pvp community mail @u.s.s.bloodmage or any of the other 4 admirals in charge. We want the best for STO pvp. And we wish all the pvp fleets the best.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
Post edited by tripwire690 on
0
Comments
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
I've had numerous problems with NOVA members, and its always about what I fly. I fly a BUG, i saved the Energy Credits up and bought one out of the Exchange. And yet, every time i queue for Cap'n Hold, the same Nova member spots me and swears blind in Zone Chat i'm in an "exploit ship", that i suck, that i wouldnt stand two moments in anything else etc etc etc. I never had any problems in a Defiant. But all of a sudden i was being berated by him and then any other Nova in the game. And then the next and then the next, the only redeeming quality of always being singled out is how bad they are, makes winning the points all the easier.
Of course at the start i took it seriously, i actively tried to find Nova senior members to find out if i'd caused some offence, apon telling YOU i was insulted and /ignored. After that i just shrugged and realised that the only times i'd seen your members was when they were trying to bully individuals or berating them. The exceptio being Kid D who i see in the queues all the time.
I'm a Fleet Leader myself, and i would want to know if any of my fleetmates were harassing people. I guess theres a place we differ.
Of course these days i just laugh, i like the idea that certain individuals see me when i queue and will clak and wait for me and strive so hard. Its amusing.
When the topic of questionable premades that spam a certain skill come up, you guys are always mentioned soon after. There's never smoke without fire.
If you want to have clean hands, try cleaning your house.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
Cleaning our house is exactly what we are doing. Select members of the fleet have been removed while others remain in the fleet but have been demoted for the appropriate reasons. I assure you we are "cleaning our house". There are some things I could say about your guild. But I know how to be respectful and I know you dont represent the bad apples in your fleet as well. I hope we can work together to help this pvp community going forward my friend.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
edit: It comes down to do we want PvP to grow? If we chase everybody away, how can it grow?
Say I've had a bad day, I'm there in PUGland - there's some new folks PvPing for the first time. They're doing the herd thing - I hit them with Graviton, throw out the full Aux'd GW, Sensor Scan them, as they get closer to each other...it's the DOFF'd VM, Iso Charge, and a spread of Chrons. Somebody looks like they're going to get away - well, Subnuke them - hit them with Tachyon and a shield stripping Tractor - while a DEM'd PDS and DPB'd Trics are lost in the visual spam as the additional GWs pop have me forgetting about my bad day.
Sure, against a team - I'll be sitting there looking at the respawn button and wondering if I should go watch TV, have a couple of beers, and take a nap... against those first timers though - well, yeah...
haha. That was awesome. Well written. Your point is well recieved. I want to focus on the fact that we are all pay-to-win. Some of us to lesser degrees than others but all of us have our hand in the pot at this point. There is nothing productive about hating each other to lesser or greater degrees because two people on his team or all five people on her team is tom or jerry. I'd also like to point out that until Cryptic deems it as inappropriate it is not only working as intended but designed the way that in fact Cryptic intends for it to be. With that said it is not the players job to police other players. The exception are tournaments in which us; the players, police our own rules to make the event as fun and successful a turnout as can be.
We have no authority to police one player who is a Tom or Jerry in the public queue and part of no fleet as we do to police a five man team in the public queue and part of whatever well known fleet name. You may not respect that player or fleet and that is your right. But the cheese we have in the game in whatever degree has been designed by Cryptic and until they deem their design flawed it is not our place to police what players or teams run on their ship in the public queues.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
Admiral Wolve here
Fleet Admiral for Sol Team 77
i agree with you just because i buy this ship or that ship to get this counsel or that one I nor anyone else should be bashed. I belive that its your ship and you should be able to do with it how you so desire. As for the bashing on fleet members 99.9 percent of us are adults we should act like it and stop with the school yard garbage. Things were well said tripp and Sol team 77 stands behind you 100%. any question feel fee to email me
Admiral wolve75
You have a very valid point there. Something this forum hardly ever represents is the difference of how Vet treat each other, and how this comes across for newcomers.
Pre-made private matches, are hardly ever a problem, we agree on things, or don't and take it from there. However, we take these agreements into the queues, and start insulting players for using cheese, spam, P2W and whatnot, god forbid their poorly balanced toys can't safe em from loosing, we rub it in some more.
The problem is, that new players don't know or understand why certain things are frowned upon. Even worse, we have just taken the most rewarding experience of that new player (getting the lockbox ship, DoFF, Console...), and turned it into a ****storm. I feel this myself, i don't even wnat to tune my builds anymore simply because the minute some poor escort pilot can't survive a sci ships attack, the nerf cries are going to start.
"Danoobe Spam, paired with Tric mines and AMS spam, is fine, but Siphons are not." This doesn't make sense to a new player.
I think we are loosing a large number of new players interested in PvP, because of the hostility they will encounter for what simply appears the most efficient combo to them.
I mean we can hardly agree among ourselves what is permissible, and whose fleet said what when and how.
Just to be clear, there are borken combos, and the blame is and will always be with Cryptic. But since P2W the name calling between Vets, has gotten out of hand. If i wouldn't know you guys, and just be in the match reading zone chat, i doubt that i would have ever gotten into pvp. I can only imagine that new players have similar reactions.
Maybe on a side note, SVR will never police the PUG builds of its members.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Absoultely. I consider the bug ship to be overpowered in comparison to the defiant. But you know it might be fun to fight your bug in my defiant. Let's see what happens.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
As I said already. I cannot control what happened before me. But I can once again take up an active role in this community right now. I realize the pvp community seems to have labeled my fleet as spammers, cheaters, p2w, etc. However I will do my best as a current admiral of Nova Core to ensure our members are being respectful and showing good sportsmanship during matches. If not then you know who you can talk to now. Its important for us fleet leaders to communicate with one another. Its a small community thats ever growing smaller with each new ship release.
I will also say that Nova Core will not police the use of consoles, or ships in the public queue. It is not our place as fleet leaders to restrict our players from using ships or consoles they have purchased in the public queue. What we will do is make sure that if consoles or duty officers or ships are decided upon as being forbidden in any private match or tournament we will abide by those rules and avoid violating them period. We do not currently have a premade but I will be working on building one and we will challenge other premades in private queues. I will personally be handling this last point as a direct approach to leading by example with the intention of showing the pvp community that there are players in Nova Core that are just as good as some other players in very well known fleets without the skills, consoles, or whatever is frowned upon as being cheap, cheese or TRIBBLE.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
point being...if u paid for it, use it...u have two ways of getting it, so EVERYBODY can get it...either u spend time or money...dont slam the players for paying for an advantage...
nova core isnt hackers nor are we cheaters in any reguard...we play with what tools are available to us and are even willing and able to run premades w/o the p2w...
Regardless of the cost, eh?
There's that saying about cutting off your nose to spite your face...
...which comes to mind.
What's more important to you?
Winning the current match or having another match to play after the current one?
The whiners about p2w are the ones who are terrible, not the folks who advance themselves using the means available to them. Don't have money for Zen? Lots of players don't, that doesn't mean you still can't get everything you want anyway, unless you are either a terribly limited player or play in a terribly limited fleet.
Rules of Acquisition at Priority One
I lol'd. I really did. Not enough caffeine to tell if this was sarcasm or if you actually believe it, but I lol'd all the same.
hey trip, it seems you nova core and 7th core is on my mind 24/7. your clearly wrong. i could care less about the 2 to be honest. atleast sob even tho they use skilless consoles can run clean and win. i highly doubt nova could. and if your fleet amoung other fleets would play clean pvp would be a better place. but go for it bro, kill pvp more then it is. i knew you from the days when this game was not f2p. when you and ur wing man would roll up on people with double target engines 3. but yeah that was cap and hold. its the only place i ever fought you. ss3 vm 3. but i love the way im always called out when clearly more players have been more vocal then i ever was. to be honest even tho i know you as a player with skill, to even go around and say your a learder of nova core.......TRIBBLE i would not be so proud to say that. so i guess i have to give you props to even say it. but to say well cryptic let us have this bs so we use it is a cop out for a fleet full of lack of skill.
maybe nova core could be in a better light if they played clean. it will never happen because they wanna be a fleet full of kirks.
I've been hoping with the boot camp talks that we would see less bickering and more pushing newer players. That hasn't seen the case, unfortunately. I was in a match yesterday on a RA sci I'm finishing up, and it was 2/4 (2 me and a friend) and the newer players RAGED at my max spec GW spam (not my fault) ;p
After the match, I informed them of boot camp and OPVP. Hopefully they will proceed with PVP but we really need to try to be nicer to each other and give newer players advice. If you see a eng in a escort /w no tact team, tell them to get a tact team. Give them the shield distro keybind. Link some of the awesome build write ups. If we ever want to see EPIC fun queues again, we need new players and we also need to respect each other. If you don't like someone, ignore them and act like they don't exist. It's not very difficult. /ignore @handle
On the note of Nova Core, rarely is their use of the console effective. Sure they can pug stomp but if they run into a small group of decent players they get savagely beaten. They have been doing the same stuff for months. They won't stop, so why give them any notice? It always falls on def ears.
Less bickering more PEW PEW!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I blame the mods deleting Treffel's thread... after they did that, all these threads started popping up. Glancing at the shuttle/fighter thread was like taking a handful of downers....just left you feeling zoned out. Look what's happened since they deleted it!
Sadly Bickering is the most fun some people have these days in STO, Forum PvP is often better then pvp in game.
Quote of the week:
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
PaxOttomana here. I read this thread in it's entirety since it touches base on a few things I talked about on these forums on in the past.
I guess I can say Nova Core and the Sad Pandas have something in common when determining the regulation of the use of P2W. They both refused to do so in their fleets. Or at least limit them to a certain few that were "ok". They outright refused. So Nova Core and Sad Pandas are kinda the same in that respect.
However, I can't say the same when it came to the actual results. Even though they were stubborn in not using some of the things on the list, notably SN Doffs, they did not use them openly. Nor did they use any of the other items on the list. There was just a refusal in general to comply with some kind of preset rules. Despite this, they did, as did the Critz. And so did TRIBBLE. to a degree.
Even though Nova Core was not present at all in this thread, I'm sure there could of been a reasonable ground reached with you guys as well.
Currently TRH employs a SN Doff deterrence policy. We currently can say we have enough of these doffs to substantiate 3-4 alts per character in our fleet. We threw this up there and a rampantly known fact that if you use these Doffs, we will use them tenfold and your fleet will be restricted to only using the toon that has them. If I am not mistaken, your fleet does not have that kind of luxury. Which in part is respected by our fleet for not using these doffs on fleets such as yours.
Now I understand Pascal is organizing a league. In this league there will be thorough rules set down as far as how game play will go in the queues and in this league. Although it is probably for the set matches, but we just might all be able to agree on stuff to use/not to use in the queues. I will not be present at the meeting for TRH, but Hank will be.
Aside from that, we've been watching this thread develop and think that you took Devoras' post as an opportunity to state an unfortunate zeal to use lame stuff.
If TRH, Critz, Pandas, TSI, Risa, Lag Ind, RE, Angry Clowns, 106th, all have some kind of regulatory style of governance to cheese or limitations on P2W then it shouldn't be difficult for your fleet either.
Otherwise, your entire post is just an excuse to lash out with garbage on your ships. While you complain about being targeted and given TRIBBLE about it, and you want it to end? Be part of the general community and start enforcing general respect for the invisible rules this community has thus far enforced. Those that are alone, like DFII and Trekkie BBS will be all that's left in that genre of players. Talon Jones doesn't even use trics or sn doffs....
Good luck to you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You know I appreciate your response. Pascalb has called my fleet every name in the book. But what Pascalb may not tell you is that I used to be friends with him. Never talked down to him. We pvp'd often together.. But then he lashed out at my fleet and me. For using mines. Or because someone was using something he deemed to be pathetic and unworthy of great fleets. Now I could go into detail about how abusive he was to me personally but I will not. I will simply say I will never forget how unacceptable he treated me and we will never be on the same terms we were before. Just so you are clear on where him and I stand.
However I will work with Pascalb or any other admiral or fleet that is working to better the pvp community as a whole. I cannot speak for the other admirals but I am confident they stand behind me in my posts here. If some gentlemen's agreements can be made between multiple fleets for the public queues then Nova Core will be happy to oblige. But please be clear. You may think certain things are cheese and others are not. But the opinions of our players may not fall in line with that of you, your fleet, or anyone you've listed in your alliance of fleets. If the members we have who pvp can agree on whatever rules are set forth then we will be in agreement as a fleet. If not then unfortunately we will miss out on the oppurtunity.
Regardless we have some nice PEOPLE who play this game in our fleet. I would hope the community respects their opinions of the game even though they may not agree with them the same as anyone in the community would do for the members of their own fleet. Thank you for your very respectful response. I look forward to working towards bridging an agreement with what we all want for pvp with both my fleet and you, TRH and the community as a whole.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
All details regarding this meeting can be found at this link.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=467581
Just make sure someone from your fleet comes over.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You are making many very poor unfounded assumptions regarding why people don't like P2W and the quality of play from the players who expess their views regarding P2W.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
We also have a pre-made team. We love the intense challenges the many super pvp fleets present us. We go into those kinds of matches knowing its No Quarter. We know nothing is off limits and there is a chance we might get utterly rolled. If that happens, we get up and dust eachother off with no hard feelings.
The jungle is the jungle; nothing is fair, nothing is too savage.
Good luck in finding peace of mind in this long, long issue.